The endless self-improovement treadmill, and the futility of it all

FakeNewsFredo · 2023-05-22T02:02:19+00:00

Given what kind of women most men end up with, it doesn't seem worth it to become super-human. I'm not going to be some 9/10 just to get into the 6/10 market. I don't see how it pays off in the long run.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2023-05-22T15:24:32+00:00

I'm not disagreeing with you but what is the alternative? You either play the game or you don't. You either try your best or give up. We are not going back to the 1930s or 1940's so forget about how it was in the past and focus on what it is today. In today's market you have to self improve and possibly travel to even have a chance at having a quality partner if you're a guy. If the cost is too much I understand.

Peacesquad · 2023-05-22T17:29:26+00:00

Women don’t care about men’s problems. I wish this sub would get through their heads.

ChocoOranges · 2023-05-22T04:43:45+00:00

Is this the male equivalent of the “cool girl” rant? 😂

Additional_Zebra_721 · 2023-05-22T09:11:03+00:00

You are correct. I realize church kinda leveled the playing feild

inkiwitch · 2023-05-22T14:56:54+00:00

Honestly, the only self improvement that’s going to help you is to change this loathsome mindset because you sound grossly undateable currently.

“These men had loyal and dutiful wives. Why? Because there was still a minimum level of decent conduct expected from and enforced in women back then”

Sorry, but if you think women’s conduct should be controlled just so you can have an easier time finding someone to fuck, then you deserve to be alone. Women have historically been oppressed and forced into situations they don’t want because they couldn’t control their own finances, pregnancies, or decisions from their elders. Men didn’t need to work on themselves to earn a woman’s attention because most wives didn’t have power to leave even if he turned out lazy, drunk, or abusive.

Contrary to the bullshit spouted here daily, but not every woman is looking for a rich and ripped Chad. You have greatly exaggerated the physical & outward standards that a lot of women are looking for with red pill rhetoric and you didn’t mention a single emotional/personal aspect of yourself to work on. Very easy to tell why you’re having no luck.

Purple_Cruncher_123 · 2023-05-21T21:09:07+00:00

Do we only strive to self-improve because so we can impress someone else to have sex? Can we not self-improve simply because they are accomplishments to be proud of? That they open up new doors of opportunities, and new people to befriend and interact with?

Do I only work out because I'm doing it to chase women? Can't I just look in the mirror at my body and say "Damn I look good and it's all because of my hard work?"
Do I only want an advanced degree and good salary because I'm doing it to chase women? Can't I appreciate that my advanced degree is a personal achievement and the money is nice so I can gamble $100/week on SPY calls and not worry about making my bills?
Do I only need to dress nicely so I can chase women? Can't I just dress nicely and style myself because I enjoy customizing my looks as I would a character in an RPG game?
Do I only need to be suave so I can chase women? Can't I just be suave and socially fluent because I like to make friends and persuade people to cooperate with my goals rather than needing to threaten or imply use of force?

Nobody is forcing you to self-improve either. If anything, I think we've reached a point in many modern societies where people can comfortably live a minimalist lifestyle and check out socially. If that's more appealing to you than a "rigged" game, then sit back, crack a brew, jerk off, and go about enjoying the decline.

MisterBlumenberg · 2023-05-22T11:17:30+00:00

Based. This is why you pay prostitutes to have sex with you. Quick and easy. No bullshit.

BigusDikus12 · 2023-05-21T21:59:39+00:00

The only thing that is worth having relationship with a woman is children. Having children was a big thing for me and that's why I did it. Except for that I would be much more successful in every aspect of my life without a wife. So my advice is that if you don't want children forget about women and improve yourself in a way that makes you happy and healthy.

Capybara_88 · 2023-05-21T20:51:11+00:00

Go to the mall if you still have one of those around you. Or any crowded place. You’ll see plenty of couples. Not all the dudes will be super jacked. Most will be average people. The difference is they are out there living their life instead of consuming YouTube doom content and posting long threads on Reddit.

Dating is harder I will give you that. But you are not required the level up to absolute perfection. Self improvement will help and should be something you work on as a functional adult.

If you want some Instagram model you may have to level up tons. But you are shopping out of your price range at that point. Become more grounded in reality.

obviousredflag · 2023-05-22T13:27:06+00:00

the harsh truth is that the dating/mating market is getting worse much faster than you will ever be able to self-improove.

Is that one of those harsh truths that you pulled out of your ass because that makes your own failure seem less of a you-problem and more of a "society"/cultture/Women problem?

Men are told to hit the gym until they look like damn superheros, learn multiple new languages, learn to play an instrument with a high degree of proficiency, double their current salary, dress to the nines, become a Don Juan suave, travel and become worldly, just for the chance to maybe not be completely invisible to the masses of women.

Who is telling men that? Few men that profit financially off of telling those lies, or actual women on the dating/mating market? You seem to think that what Tate and other charlatans tell you to rip you off is the actual state of the mating market.

mating market grows ever more imbalanced,

The mating market cannot grow imbalanced. Women are still looking for long term relationships with men. There is no way a woman can be in a long term relationship, without a man also being in one. There simply is no evidence, that few men are having all the long term relationships. What is true for casual sex does not hold true for long term mating decisions, relationships, marriages.

Did men in the past have to do all this?!

You don't have to do all this. Really. There is a woman on your level of desirability that is up to be in a relationship with you. Just the way you are right now. No need to improve anything.

women who could not care less about them, and in fact often feel deep dislike and fear for them

Heterosexual women fucking love men. What is it now? Are women riding the cock carousel or are they not caring about men?

Women treat them with more coldness, aloofness, and contempt than ever before.

I am not treated with coldness and contempt by women. They love me. Maybe this is more a you-thing because for all i can take from your post, your stance towards women is pretty disgusting. But don't worry, even someone like you will find their counterpart in a woman. What you seem to expect is to be attractive for the most desired women just for "hitting the gym", while you should look for your equal in desirability on the mating market. And no, online dating is not the mating market.

wake up after ten years of "self improovement" only to find out that nothing has changed? That they are just as invisible and unwanted as before? That the pretty wh*res on TikTok and Instagram still want nothing to do with them?

Just like i thought. You are delusional to think you are or will ever be on the level of pretty wh*res on tiktok and instagram. Those are the top 0.00x% of the population and you must be surprisingly stupid to think that any more than a ridiculously small number of men that you don't belong to will be mating material for them.

Self-improvement leads to a better position on the mating market, leading to an overall better partner (potentially). Self-improvement doesn not bring you to the top 0.00x%.

There is absolutely no self-improvement necessary to be high value enough to find a partner. There are women on your "value level" and they have no other option for long term mate than someone like you. Go look for them.

specimener · 2023-05-22T06:37:17+00:00

One shouldn't embark on the self-improvement journey to impress women, but rather for one self. The focus should be on living a healthy and fulfilling life that you can feel proud of on the deathbed.

ceereality · 2023-05-22T12:38:19+00:00

In the end it boils doen to your intent and drive.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2023-05-22T16:24:47+00:00

Men are told to hit the gym until they look like damn superheros, learn multiple new languages, learn to play an instrument with a high degree of proficiency, double their current salary, dress to the nines, become a Don Juan suave, travel and become worldly, just for the chance to maybe not be completely invisible to the masses of women.

You're going to get frustrated and give up if you think like this. I agree that a lot is expected of men, but you don't need perfection across the board.

What you do need is no obvious weaknesses. Not completely out of shape, some interesting hobbies and things you are good at, career under control and supporting yourself, not dressed like a slob, passable social skills, some curiosity and passion about the world.

If you can get there you'll be well on your way. Then you can pick some areas to make your strengths.

You got this, guys.

Endlessly_ · 2023-05-22T16:57:35+00:00

Respectfully, why give a shit what hand other people are dealt? We do our best with what we can reasonably get, then we die. Being angry isn’t going to contribute to your happiness.

veloron2008 · 2023-05-23T01:06:20+00:00

You're doing it all wrong. You should be on the endless self improvement treadmill for you and yourself alone. Result will follow.

Affinity4186 · 2023-05-23T05:45:31+00:00

Self improving only to stay in the west is shooting yourself in the foot. Self improve, get your money up, hit the gym and become a passport bro. This is the way.

Dahmerino · 2023-05-23T07:45:52+00:00

in the next few years, due to man massively hitting the gym, steroid abuse will become mandatory just for stand in the crowd

KayRay1994 · 2023-05-21T21:20:30+00:00

somewhere in here there is a genuine critique of self improvement industry that’s primarily pushed by RP content creators - but the critique is entirely missed by OP thinking that that’s what one actually has to do and being frustrated that that’s what women are asking for.

Is there a need for genuine self improvement? 100% - does this self improvement have to do with becoming a James Bond-esque ‘chad’? no, not in the slightest. Your blame is entirely misplaced and you’re so close to seeing a major hinderance lots of men’s spaces have - but you miss the mark entirely by thinking that’s what you actually usher to do.

Bad-Roommate-2020 · 2023-05-22T05:36:44+00:00

There is a fundamental error in your chain of reasoning. A painfully obvious one.

Quote:"Men are told to [do self-improvement] ...while, the average unwashed skinny-fat Becky can do nothing except eat, sleep, poop, Netflix, and Tik-Tok, ... can do everything wrong, and get dates, sex, and relationships a hundred times more easily than you can doing everything right. There is no "self improoving" your way out of that kind of imbalance."

But men and women are not competing against one another for the attention of the *opposite* sex. Fine, Becky has it easier than Dave at increasing his returns on effort from self-improvement. But Becky and Dave are not attempting to attract the same people. There is in fact almost no overlap between their target audience. (For rhetorical clarity I am eliding the existence of bisexuality and homosexuality.)

Dave is competing against me, or Larry, or Al. And that competition is perfectly fair.Becky is competing against Alice or Janet or Karen. And THAT competition is perfectly fair.

Attempting to cast a balance sheet of fairness BETWEEN the genders is absurd, and stupid. The genders get different returns on their investments, but are not competing for the same capital goods, so those different returns are *irrelevant*. This is childish whining about how the system is UNFAIR boo hoo hoo - not only ignoring all the areas where the system is UNFAIR in the opposite direction but insisting on the fallacy that it is somehow relevant that Becky doesn't have to spend as much work to attract Dave as Bill has to spend to attract Alice.

It isn't.

TheSmallerGambler · 2023-05-22T16:23:14+00:00

Men today are more useless, fatter, and more addicted than ever before. There is no over abundance of men who have worked on themselves, as your post seems to imply.

AssistTemporary8422 · 2023-05-21T21:30:37+00:00

Men are told to hit the gym until they look like damn superheros

Only a tiny percent of men are muscular but the vast majority get into relationships. Working out really helps but isn't a requirement.

learn multiple new languages

Where on earth did you get this requirement from?

learn to play an instrument with a high degree of proficiency

I've never even heard of this one either. There is the musical artistic type of guy out there but there are other types of more masculine guys women are attracted to.

double their current salary

The average 30 year old is making 50k and the vast majority are able to date. Earning more helps but looks and social skills more directly helps you with dating.

dress to the nines

Actually that will hurt you in dating. You will come off as gay, insecure, or try-hard.

become a Don Juan suave

Good game does help but most guys never learned game and are still able to date.

travel and become worldly

Most people are homebodies and don't require a ton of travel.

just for the chance to maybe not be completely invisible to the masses of women

Only .00001% of men fit all these requirements. So even if only 1% of men were able to date, then something is wrong with your logic.

Meanwhile, the average unwashed skinny-fat Becky can do nothing except eat, sleep, poop, Netflix, and Tik-Tok, and get more attention from the opposite sex in one year than the average man will in 100 lifetimes.

Sure but how do you know these men contacting her want anything more than a hookup?

The average man in the middle ages was a malnourished serf standing five and a half feet tall.

Yes but women were shorter too so its all relative.

If we look at photos of men from the 1930s and 40s, we do not see legions of jacked, iron jawed, neo Spartan warriors, but stick-armed, bucktoothed hayseeds. However, these men all had loyal and dutiful wives. Why?

Men from the past seem more masculine. They were better at doing physical things and handled much harder lives. They also socialized a lot more.

Now, women are encouraged and incentivized to behave in the worst and most destructive ways possible.

How do you know the majority of women are actually doing this?

Now, men are more dedicated to self improovement, hitting the gym, etc, than ever before.

Yes but the vast majority of men aren't doing this.

And what do they get in return? Women treat them with more coldness, aloofness, and contempt than ever before.

Maybe some of these men have trouble with their mental health and social skills which is why they are being treated that way.

and in fact often feel deep dislike and fear for them due to the feminist culture conditioning them to believe that men are all "patriarchal oppressors," and potential rapists/murderers.

How do you know a significant number of people believe ALL men are oppressors and potential rapists? Seems like an extremely rare and radical belief.

What will happen when the current generation of young men, raised on Andrew Tate and all the other "red pill" gurus/grifters, wake up after ten years of "self improovement" only to find out that nothing has changed?

Maybe do common sense self-improvement, positive masculinity, work on mental health, and socialize.

antutroll · 2023-05-21T23:31:37+00:00

Add race to the mixture and it gets worse . I'm an Indian dude living in the UK and having a ripped body , great humour and a decent face doesn't help cause nobody likes Indians here . 24M and dating here is an impossible task for a brown man .

BeneficialTop5136 · 2023-05-21T23:58:43+00:00

I don’t know any women like the “Becky” you mention, that would ever be successful with a man of the caliber you describe.

Regardless of your starting goal, self improvement - especially to the degree your referencing (healthy, fit, well-educated, multilingual, well-traveled, with a variety of hobbies), the journey to get to that point shapes you as a person. Someone like that isn’t needy, self-conscious or spending his time lamenting about how unfair the world is to them. These accomplishments and exposure shape them to be more independent. They are confident, accomplished and invariably attract the same sorts of people. The argument that you shouldn’t continue to improve yourself because “she doesn’t have to, why do I?” is madness.

MxMaster9907 · 2023-05-22T05:54:31+00:00

Women in the past were miserable in their marriages, a huge percentage of them took antidepressants just to cope and a surprising number of them would murd3r their husbands. Ancient marriages are not something desirable or appealing to women.

StaticNocturne · 2023-05-21T23:43:47+00:00

I get your point but to say that only Adonis is capable of attracting women these days and women are as destructive as possible is absurd, and whilst the feminism movement can get extreme, look at how powerless women were through history

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2023-05-21T20:59:25+00:00

If you're improving yourself solely for women, you're doing it wrong.

TotalTravesty · 2023-05-21T20:38:52+00:00

Unsexiest sentiment I’ve ever seen. I swear the dating game has never been easier for a man who bothers to walk away from the internet for even 5 seconds. Want the Chad experience? Just tell a woman that you’ve never heard of Reddit and spend too much time at work/the gym/outside to keep up on what’s hot on TikTok. The novelty of it all should be an instant aphrodisiac.

nonplussedminus · 2023-05-21T21:03:19+00:00

You are not really required to do all that, most regular men find dates and relationships naturally... there's plenty of posts from women on Reddit dating ugly, stupid men who don't wash their ass and neglect their own kids. The whole "you have to self improoove in order to be worthy of a womans attention" is more some blue pill myth that online forums put in the head of lonely dudes who are on the spectrum

Safinated · 2023-05-21T20:38:21+00:00

And yet, men who don’t have/do x, y or z still fuck, date and marry

Sabrepill · 2023-05-22T01:06:51+00:00

You speak a bunch of half truths. Self improving does not guarantee you sexual success by any means. The only thing it guarantees you is that you’re better than you were yesterday. This world doesn’t owe you anything, you have to compete and earn everything. Nature is brutal, it’s a competition and a fight for survival. Look how much suffering is in this world, and you whine about how unfair it is to be a man. Yes there is way more sexual selective pressure on men than women in modern times, you’re right about that. You want to envy people who have it in easy mode?

You romanticize the past, a time where genetically inferior men were allowed to mate because of social constructs. Those times are evaporating and human mating is returning to Paleolithic and early agricultural evolutionary programming. The best man takes all

You can either cry about it and give up, or you can go out there and win

EugeneCezanne · 2023-05-22T02:46:52+00:00

What will happen when the current generation of young men, raised on Andrew Tate and all the other "red pill" gurus/grifters, wake up after ten years of "self improovement" only to find out that nothing has changed?

Let me get this straight: men spend a decade on self improvement, become very fit, successful, worldly and charming, and NOTHING has changed?

It sounds like their whole lives are better.

wtknight · 2023-05-21T23:25:00+00:00

A woman can do everything wrong, and get dates, sex, and relationships a hundred times more easily than you can doing everything right. There is no "self improoving" your way out of that kind of imbalance.

Women can't get relationships easily. They get pumped and dumped or plated if they try to have sex with guys out of their league. And if they date their attractiveness match, then that means that their male attractiveness match has things just as easy as his female comparison does when it comes to relationships.

WingLeviosa · 2023-05-22T16:58:01+00:00

I think you’re wrong. I know plenty of average or below average men in looks, finances, lifestyle department with attractive, loyal women in long term relationships. Perhaps the problem is you and your attitude.

KirthWGersen · 2023-05-22T06:50:23+00:00

I do self-improvement for the many benefits it provides me, not as a means to a narrowly-defined end (such as getting laid).

I intend to keep improving right up to the day I drop dead: the most important aspect of it is the positive mindset it creates. Constant improvement makes my life better right now. Ceasing to improve makes my life right now worse.

Nice-Card1887 · 2023-05-21T20:57:50+00:00

The missing variable here is that you should be doing all of this "self-improovement" for yourself, NOT JUST for women's attention. In fact, learning how to be mentally alone and striving for your own individualistic goals is an incredibly important motivator for young men. This teaches you to act in accordance with your own will and ultimately gain confidence.

I do agree, though, that the gym lifestyle has morphed into another barrier to entry for young men, yet I see scrawny, even short, dudes with GFs and casual sex experiences all of the time. A common denominator of these dudes is that they are confident and passionate in at least one aspect of their lives; it could be based on a hobby, religion, or whatever else. It makes them attractive because they, for instance, play an instrument for the hell of it or for highly meaningful reasons (e.g., communicating something transcendent about the universe). The problem nowadays is that people, and especially young men, lack a meaningful outlet with which to express their souls or bodies. Now that many men lack blue collar skills and meaningful teleology, masculinity seems dull and like a defective version of femininity.

Caring_Cactus · 2023-05-22T00:32:30+00:00

Or how about you focus on living your life genuinely first? None of what you said is a requirement to experience life as it is.

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RedditAlt999 · 2023-05-22T11:53:43+00:00

So? What if you started doing something to get women but then realized how much you liked it, then started doing it for yourself?

I started (martial art) to lose weight and increase my SMV. It worked, but then I continued because I fell in love with the sport. It changed my body and added discipline to my life where I had none. Maybe that's what you need instead of the overall idea of "self improvement so women will like me". How about "self improvement because it will improve my life as a whole"?

iassureyouimreal · 2023-05-22T14:19:13+00:00

Don’t try to push your shit attitude on me

Powell__ · 2023-05-22T14:45:57+00:00

First of all, that’s not how you spell self-improvement.

Just for the chance to be mabye not invisible to the masses of women

This seems like and exaggeration. I know tons of average guys who have female friends and even girl friends. Lots of Blackpill/incel creators will try to convince you that all women are inundated with attention from 10/10 millionaires, and won’t settle for less. But if you just go and ACTUALLY TALK TO WOMEN, you’ll see this isn’t true.

When is the last time you spoke to a woman? Family members don’t count.

There was still a minimum level of decent conduct expected from and enforced from women back then.

That’s one way to put it…

in a vain attempt to impress women who could not care less about them

Or maybe they are just trying to improve themselves, so their life is better. Getting in shape, making money, learning to play a musical instrument etc. Are all things that will give you fulfillment, regardless if sex comes along with it.

stick-armed bucktoothed hayseeds

I present to you, the “stick-armed bucktoothed hayseeds” in question:

https://images.app.goo.gl/W6nWsFuKndWkMRQx8

https://images.app.goo.gl/jr3VuVprh7ZFobUSA

https://images.app.goo.gl/3JuHivNKBXSj1K817

If these guys were around today, they would slay puss

duenebula499 · 2023-05-22T14:48:23+00:00

Nah this is honestly just not true. Went to the gym for not even a year and the amount of attention I got easily doubles started dressing decently and the same happened. It’s really not that hard, I’m pretty convinced a lot of guys are just incompetent

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-05-23T15:39:18+00:00

Given what men expect of women, men should be doing this.

I dated a ton in my 20s and every man expected this of me:

- to be attractive (which for many men, is alot. Many expected me to be MORE attractive than them and felt justified to it)

-have hobbies, an interesting life.

- to do the majority of housework even while working like them

-to be socially and emotionally intelligent.

-honest and loyal.

-to be emotionally supportive, self sacrificial, kind and compassionate

-to be financially stable and be able to pay for myself.

-little past baggage. A small amount I can regulate on my own with little support needed from them is OK.

-to be more of a planner/organized than them.

I like to think I am these things. But since I am human, I occasionally make mistakes or slack. And guess what- I always got called out on it.

Guess how many men I dated though, that while they expected this of me, also met these requirements themselves?

The best part of my paragraph? These were all average men I met off of OLD apps mostly. No 6 ft men, no six pack men, no 100k salary men...nope...average. None were super muscular, a couple were kinda athletic. The majority have an average bod with no weightlifting...some were probably a little overweight. None were Mr. Social Butterfly Im So Charismatic either. Most of these men just played video games and watched sports. Men are delusional today.

Also all the men who did this did start showing it until later. I would never commit to a man who I know is like this (have rejected men that show the signs luckily for me early on too). I think they hide it until they get comfortable and think I wont leave.

LiveWallaby233 · 2023-05-25T15:27:02+00:00

If you do self-improvement to have sex, you are doing it wrong.

neverendingplush · 2023-05-22T08:00:17+00:00

Then do it for yourself. Why does being a renaissance men mean that the end goal is a wet vagina . Yes you are right , standards are definitely skewed, but that's for several reasons. 1. Men will fuck anything that moves. 2 women have economic freedom and can now choose their partners more so on looks rather then security. 3.women in my experience are more predisposed to narcissism and lack self awareness, and this only exacerbated by legions of men confirming their delusions.

BTW go outside. Most men are badly dressed , blobs of mass who at some point will be settled for by an equally unattractive women as the aging process as a way of balancing things out. It's just that we don't see how things play out in time. It's actually crazy to see how many women that were attractive in high school college hit their late 20s mid 30s and look completely different. Yeah they had Chad or whatever the fuuck u wanna call him, but those days are done and marriage and stability is now being daughter. Is what it is.

Applejinx · 2023-05-22T09:11:57+00:00

Wow. Bitter, much? Obsessed, much?

My best friend was a dude who was making his life better. He went to school (as an old guy) and pushed me to do likewise, he worked to get credentials to be not just a recovery coach but a pretty white-collar dude: not medical school, mind you, but a whole class of employment that was only achievable through that schooling.

He died, of heart failure, not because of his efforts but because his heart was literally fucked up and broke one day. It would've done the same had he spent all his time on the couch: he probably got a little more time out of it from making the efforts to get better as a healthy person.

Get straight with your motivations. This could be you. If you're miserable and bitter while bending heaven and earth to impress 'women', or if you're miserable and bitter while refusing to do anything to better yourself, you're still remarkably incurious about whether there is anything worthwhile in life. If it isn't women, then what else is there? You're blindered. An anti-simp is still obsessed, just in reverse.

I push hard in various ways to better myself. Some of those ways absolutely would help me seem hotter to women, but I won't do them unless I want to on my own initiative.

I don't CARE what the chances are that someone attractive will jump my bones. I've seen it happen, and I've seen it not happen. I don't CARE. It seems outside of my control, and I've got stuff to pay attention to that's mine to pay attention to.

Do likewise. You're doing about the only thing that can guarantee you have no chance: being that mad, at women in general, about not getting what you want.

modidlee · 2023-05-22T09:21:12+00:00

Do what you like to do and then pick the girl that’s ok with that. If you like being at 20 percent body fat because it lets you eat what you want and workout the amount you want, but the girl you’ve got your eyes on likes guys with single digits body fat don’t even go for her. Pick the girl that’s ok with 20 percent body fat guys. If you make 60k and the girl you’ve got your eyes on says a man needs to make six figures then let her keep looking. There are plenty women ok with 60k.

throwaway164_3 · 2023-05-22T14:22:45+00:00

Looks you’ve almost discovered existentialism. Keep at it!

One must imagine Sisyphus happy

Title	The endless self-improovement treadmill, and the futility of it all
Author	Taggerung1013
Upvotes	132
Comments	282
Date	May 21, 2023 8:25 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/13o5avm/the_endless_selfimproovement_treadmill_and_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-endless-self-improovement-treadmill-and-the.1219930 https://theredarchive.com/post/1219930

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