Being monogamous and wanting children should guarantee every man getting a female partner. Our current dating environment is just an anomaly before population collapse.

wtknight · 2023-10-23T11:12:54+00:00

Post removed due to OP abandonment.

drok007 · 2023-10-23T00:24:07+00:00

No, none of this tracks. Many childfree people are in relationships with other baby haters, they have partners. So this wouldn’t cause an issue of someone not having a partner.

Also, many men were killed in war in recent history, the fact that men aren’t dying as much is leading to a surplus of men that women don’t want.

Sillysheila · 2023-10-23T00:33:12+00:00

I mean it’s 50/50 split but that includes EVERYONE. It includes people who are incredibly undesirable partners and probably like 1-3 in terms of rating. This includes like people in prison, sexual abusers, very unattractive people, 10 year long term unemployed etc. These people are likely never going to pair, and they generally didn’t even 20-30 years ago because of how undesirable they were as a partner. So, no, it is not a 50/50 split. No one wants those bottom of the barrel people.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-10-23T00:26:04+00:00

You want it? Ok so what’s your plan? A goal without a plans isn’t a goal: it’s a wish

Why should anyone just be handed something they want just cause they want it?

Seriously: how spoiled and privileged to you have to be to think like this?!

kochIndustriesRussia · 2023-10-23T02:27:33+00:00

Where the fuck does this "guarantee every man getting a female partner" thing come from? Its obviously not western... what country(ies) espouse a philosophy like this? Is this an India thing? China? Russia? Africa?

Cat_Lover259 · 2023-10-23T02:31:17+00:00

Dude, really? You can say man but not women in the same sentence? It’s just man and female? Ick.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-10-23T02:09:36+00:00

Just a thought. Did millennia of suppressing female sexual selectivity and choice to force monogamy breed the innate desire for sex and children OUT of women? You were not selecting for women higher sex drive women who wanted children. Their desires didn't matter much. So maybe no surprise that if you take away the forces that MADE women have to have sex and have kids, far less of them feel much of a need for it.

Specialist-Action-33 · 2023-10-23T01:39:26+00:00

First, there are men who been wanting to be monogamous and kids but still end up lonely or at least struggle with getting a female partner.

The reason most men don't have a partner today is because most women have chosen to be childless

Second, With the high amont of single moms, there are a lot of women who aren't childless (a lot of them wish they were though). Theres a reason why those women chase after men without kids, but I digress.

Third, there are many childless heterosexual couples out there. A lot of men also don't want kids, let alone being monogamous.

thetruthishere_ · 2023-10-23T02:25:52+00:00

Nothing in life is guaranteed.

Bekiala · 2023-10-23T02:51:38+00:00

I would agree but so many people just won't make good partners for a variety of reasons. Also even if they make good partners they wouldn't be good parents.

Even someone monogamous who wants children may be neither a good partner nor a good parent. Being good in either of these roles is tough.

Too_Many_Degrees · 2023-10-23T03:39:42+00:00

Lol, no. You have to convince someone you're worth dating, or you get no one. Arranged marriages used to work around that, polygamist cultures allowed the uneven nature of ratios of stereotypical gender preferences to be stabilized in family units. Yes, choosing not to have kids evolutionarily ends their line, but just because they don't want to date you doesn't mean they can go, have a random hookup, get pregnant, and raise it alone, if they really want a kid.

trettles · 2023-10-23T01:31:53+00:00

I don't see why anyone would expect a woman to settle & have children with an awful man. Opting out is a far superior option.

AnthemJavelin · 2023-10-23T04:20:17+00:00

/r/menandfemales

Cool_Ranch_2511 · 2023-10-23T01:19:12+00:00

We don’t give a fuck, let the motherfucker burn

In the end population is just a tax base for governments, one that they’ve decided to resolve with mass immigration rather than addressing social and economic issues. Not my problem to worry about. I

f I even wanted kids I could hop on a plane tomorrow and get a Philippina pregnant in 2 months tops. Women here can do what they want, kids or not who cares.

GlamSunCrybabyMoon · 2023-10-23T02:52:39+00:00

Some of those people on both sides are gay. Some don’t want to be married, some don’t want kids. A lot of those people are not even emotionally capable of maintaining a healthy relationship.

arcticshqip · 2023-10-23T04:23:12+00:00

Only problem seems to be that not all women want to have kids or can't have them and some women also want that spouse is not an addict or violent or otherwise abusive.

Safinated · 2023-10-23T00:17:59+00:00

Men want many partners, not just one. And that’s what they try to get

MistyMaisel · 2023-10-23T02:43:16+00:00

Watch this:

Provide evidence for your view.

If you cannot, that which is asserted without evidence can be challenged and dismissed without evidence.

historyhill · 2023-10-23T03:51:09+00:00

So usually I encounter a similar line of thinking (albeit coming from a different background) in Christian Twitter discourse. My answer is still similar though: while I am married and have children, if I weren't, I would rather forego sex and children altogether than marry a contentious man despite desiring both. (By "contentious" I mean controlling, significant disagreements in ideological beliefs, harsh, etc.)

tadL · 2023-10-23T06:04:35+00:00

No! No ! No! Slaps TE with a rolled newspaper. Bad!

There is no Guarantee of outcome in the real world. Example. Just because you signed up for Medical studies does not mean you should pass it with guarantee! And become a doctor

Seriously just get out. Throw your console away. Every game is 60 bugs. That's 6 times going out and practicing. Much better spend.

If you think like that imagine your Dreamworld.

You get a woman. You have a daughter. Thanks to your rule she now has to marry a drug addict because he has the same right as you did. You don't want that. Freedom of choice it is.

Or the woman you get assigned too is a drug addict. Every child you have to make ... That's the other side of your demand ... Gets born with let's say it friendly... All are just have a potatoe as a brain. No you don't want that.

tawny-she-wolf · 2023-10-23T07:08:14+00:00

I mean… women who want to be childfree just find childfree partners so it wouldn’t prevent men who want kids to find women who want kids as well ?

Financial_Leave4411 · 2023-10-23T00:41:58+00:00

What exactly is the problem with population collapse? There will be more homes, medicine and higher paying jobs to go around as the elderly pass away. It’s not like ai can’t do the hard physical and psychologically draining tasks that is usually low paid. It just allows everyone to enjoy their own life better than in any other point in human history. Also women are not a trophy that men get just for being alive. This just comes off as men being so desperate for sex and childcare to the point that men are willing to take away women’s freedom and freewill to pressure women to go back to the plantation of the past.

purplish_possum · 2023-10-23T04:23:02+00:00

Again with the population collapse BS. Look around. This planet is absolutely infested with homo sapiens.

_Ad_Astra_Abyssosque · 2023-10-23T04:34:32+00:00

You are not entitled to a woman. It doesn’t matter if society collapses and the human race goes extinct. You still aren't entitled to a woman.

You are not entitled to a woman if you're monogamous. You are not entitled to a woman if you want children. You are not entitled to a woman if you're a nice guy. You are not entitled to a woman if you alone can repopulate Earth.

YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO A WOMAN!

Fuck off with this rhetoric. I try to defend RP and then yall say batshit insane stuff like this. Go touch grass, you absolute banana.

Sabrepill · 2023-10-23T01:50:57+00:00

You’re half right and half wrong. Most things in the world are cyclical. Ice ages and warming periods for example. Populations booms and busts. Nature always finds a way to challenge life to either adapt or perish.

You are not guaranteed or entitled to anything in life. Nature is brutal. To think every man is entitled to a woman is blue pilled Disney fantasy. Sexual selection is a brutal process and that’s partially what you observe today where women’s standards are so high they would rather not reproduce than reproduce with a non-chad.

That’s not necessarily a bad thing, because even though there will be a period of population collapse, the children that are born will be descendants of chads and not of blue pilled beta muppets who thought they deserve a woman just because they exist.

mrsmariekje · 2023-10-23T07:01:20+00:00

Essentially most women are threatening to commit genetic suicide rather than settling.

Why is this so shocking? Do you think the desire for offspring is sufficiently strong in women that it would be worth condemning herself to sleep with and spend time with someone who they do not like, respect, admire or lust after, just to have one? For some women maybe... most women realise that it simply isn't worth it.

coping_man · 2023-10-23T08:26:34+00:00

"should" is just a way of saying "i want this i want this i wanna have this" and your wants dont mean much if you cant give something others want in return

obviousredflag · 2023-10-23T09:42:17+00:00

The reason most men don't have a partner today

Most men do currently have a partner. (70%)

Most women have not chosen to be childless. I don't have the data for other western nations, but for Germany, 20% of women don't have children after their fertile phase, which is pretty constant for the past decade. Of those 20%, about 2/3 are childless by decision.

What you might observe is, that the age of first child has shifted to later stages of life. Women in their 20s overwhelmingly do not want children at that time. They still do want relationships and are in relationships.

Essentially most women are threatening to commit genetic suicide rather than settling.

No, women are not threatening anyone with that, it's not a majority, and their reason for deciding to be childless is overwhelmingly NOT that they don't want to settle, but that they don't want children with ANY man. Of the minority of women who are childless against their wishes, only about half of them state, that it's due to a lack of suitable partner.

Men did not get a partner by default. Selection of partners is, was, and will always be a matching of desirability. Men who don't get partners despite wanting them, are simply not desirable enough for the partners they want to get.

In 1960, the same single digit percentage of men were never married that are foreveralone incels today.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-10-23T09:47:05+00:00

I don't think the choices are between "genetic suicide" and settling. You're forgetting that there's a large and growing group of people who want a relationship but not children. So you can take someone off the market yet never have children, and you'll see that as the ideal. There's even a smaller but still substantial group who don't want relationships or children.

TenaciousVillain · 2023-10-23T02:23:26+00:00

"Most men got a female partner throughout recent history by default of the above mathematical paradigm."

Most men "got" women throughout history because society was constructed in such a way that women required men in order to survive. It wasn't until the 1800s that women began working outside of the home. And it wasn't until the 1900s that they began to live on their own.

"The reason most men don't have a partner today is because most women have chosen to be childless."

Being childfree does not demand being single. Some men prefer being childfree and happily couple with women who don't want children.

Another, separate example and point: "COVID isolation and women’s high expectations for something serious are the main reasons they’re avoiding going out and coupling up, young guys say." https://nypost.com/2023/03/01/rate-of-single-men-in-the-us-looking-for-dates-has-declined/

I mean you can't say you want kids in one breath but in the next you just want to hook up. Let's not ignore casual sex/hook up culture. Women aren't engaging in that alone with their vibrators and fingers. Men have been demanding it.

"Essentially most women are threatening to commit genetic suicide rather than settling."

There is no such thing as "genetic suicide". That doesn't even make sense. There are plenty of people and children in this world. The population may decline, but with billions of people - we will be fine. Forcing women to be with men because men feel entitled to a woman is ludicrous. Women are not property to be passed around for your needs.

63daddy · 2023-10-23T00:40:53+00:00

Lesbian women who don’t want men, many adopting a child. Women adopting or getting inseminated without marrying. Women tend to marry older guys so that leaves young men with no match. (And old widows at the other end, but kids are no longer a factor at that end). Some women are polygamous. And of course, some women don’t have kids.

It doesn’t take a lot of these factors to leave 20% or more of the male population out of luck.

(You can look at some of the small fundamentalist Mormon towns to see this at play).

Sessile-B-DeMille · 2023-10-23T03:08:13+00:00

1: There have always been men who were unable to find partners

2: Nature provides a surplus of boy babies, and unless there's a major war going on, there will be a surplus of young men, and some will be left out of the dating marketplace.

3: An increasing percentage of young women identify as bisexual, and some of them form same sex pairings, which increases the number of unattached men.

4: An increasing percentage of couples are choosing to remain childless, it's not just women who remain single.

Moon-on-my-mind · 2023-10-23T05:21:12+00:00

Is this the new scare tactic? We had "the wall" story, the "die alone and unhappy with cats", the "marry your daughter off as soon as puberty hit so she won't be old and barren by 20", and now.... population collapse? Total chaos and anarchy! Nah, hopefully women get smarter with each generation so no pressure tactics work.

Population will be just fine. It's the big and the rich owners who will suffer, and i am all ok with that.

Slipthe · 2023-10-23T00:38:27+00:00

most women are threatening to commit genetic suicide

They just aren't as dramatic about it.

NothingOrAllLife · 2023-10-23T00:52:35+00:00

They still have to find someone willing to have their children.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-10-23T04:42:53+00:00

Eh, even if the population everywhere was exactly 50/50, you have people from both groups who are gay, who are infertile, who are poly, who don't want to have kids, you'll have women who would prefer going to a sperm bank than settling for someone just to have kids, so they'll be off the heterosexual, monogamous, wanting children dating playing field. That's not even including the people who have some sort of major handicap when it comes to dating, such as being physically unattractive, having some kind of disability, or being just plain insufferable to be around.

TransportationIcy896 · 2023-10-23T10:40:04+00:00

Are you proposing some dystopian society? Yikes. People, men, women and anyone in between, don't want to have children because living is fricking expensive. Many developed and first world countries have lower birth rates compared to others a.) education b.) social mobility c.) costs of living d.) paradigm shift towards not NEEDING to have a child and e.) having the family units/ energy to raise a bloody child

This is some super wild proposal that just violates so much autonomy and consent of any party involved. This would absolutely not fly in the US.

Chan_KC · 2023-10-23T10:52:19+00:00

Why are you mad that women now have choices that were artificially and systematically suppressed by religion-back patriarchy?

I swear, comments like these show that deep down, men know marriage is more beneficial for them (and i mean marriage, not the consequences of divorce, thats a different topic.) You want a guarantee that ALL men are entitled to a partner to have sex with/reproduce/cook/clean/cater/support your ambitions/[enter anything else to use as another resource].

Nature doesn’t work like this. As males, you have to compete with one another to get a partner, and you’re no longer guaranteed a wife.

The reason we have over population and the earth dying from over-consumerism is this very notion that all men and women have to partner up and produce babies.

Nature will always correct itself. There are 8bn people on earth and the way we live is not sustainable and killing the planet. Women having a choice to not have children if they don’t want to is a much better way to depopulate over time than mass murder between people/countries over lack of resources.

And what’s this ‘genetic suicide’ trope? I hope thats got nothing to so with race and white supremacy.

SarsaparillaCorona · 2023-10-23T00:39:00+00:00

“Using reductionism I have concluded that 1+1 should equal 2 but instead it equals 1. This is a sign that society is going to collapse”

Tell ya what. If we ignore all of the social, personal, ideological nuances, biological history of mate selection, the economy, irrationality, life circumstances and emotions, you are correct. But you aren’t just throwing the baby out with the bath water, you’re throwing the tub, entire bathroom, half the house and both parents out with it too.

SmallSituation6432 · 2023-10-23T07:20:47+00:00

saying things like "women are threatening to commit genetic suicide" really undermines the possibility that you are even trying to be reasonable.

Also, population collapse is not real, its bullshit. Often racist bullshit. Don't appear to support racist views mate. Even if you want to explain how its definitely not racist, its an argument most often used by racists. Pick a better argument.

CalmGuitar · 2023-10-23T07:35:19+00:00

What an illogical conclusion. Being monogamous and wanting children doesn't guarantee a female partner. Women aren't forced to settle, since they work, earn, get rich and can have as many servants as she wants. Wanting children and getting married have become completely different in modern society. They can just get a sperm donation or can do a one night stand. Why would they marry for having children?

Cablepussy · 2023-10-23T10:13:40+00:00

If we come anywhere near actual population collapse everyone will start doing what rural Chinese villages are doing.

Kidnapping urban women to use as broodmares.

Women only have a choice until actual consequences come.
Then you either wish you were dead or you do it yourself.

EuphoricBrightTipper · 2023-10-23T00:34:46+00:00

The reason most men don't have a partner today is because most women have chosen to be childless.

It is true women are more likely to be childless than ever, thanks to birth control and such, but most childless women actually wanted to have a family and now they never will.

Turbulent-Tonight975 · 2023-10-23T00:55:50+00:00

It depends what happens doing forward with our society. I think dating apps have made issues so much worse such as hypergamy and people who are endlessly entitled wanting a partner better than himself or herself.

I think the gap is getting worse because prior to dating apps and social medial, people generally had a realistic perspective of how attractive people were and how attractive they were. People had to talk in person and it wasn't like online dating where any woman will get tons of dudes asking if she wants to have sex. Other than maybe at a bar, it just wasn't socially acceptable to try that in person, so it wasn't done.

Also the lack of dating apps prior to the 2010s basically stratified people into the groups they went in based on looks and dating value so you really didn't have average women thinking they could get a prince type guy. Now on dating apps it is like a lottery system where men or women can think that the person of their dreams is right around the corner and is looking for them..

Look at the real lottery how the odds are like 220 million to 1 and people play all the time just like they swipe endlessly on the apps hoping to find someone better than them who also has low enough stardards to want you.

At some point maybe the apps start failing and diversify into many smaller more niche type groups instead of some joined monstrocity like tinder or hinge.

I think that your post doesn't account for biology. I read a study sampling large numbers of women who were 40+ with no kids and never married. The results of surveys in this group showed that around 80% of these women did not wish or plan to end up unmarried and childless. I have known women in this position who had high level of expectations that they would find a very desirable partner only to never find him and then refuse to drop her ego have more reasonable standards. Maybe this increasing pool of women will come in the next decade and speak out strongly against feminism and say how their choices didn't find them a partner or kids and how the loneliness of aging alone and never having kids was so painful.

There are so many variables at play and if I had to place a bet, I would guess that some combination of factors will step in and not lead to the population crash we expected, just like we saw across the world thinking population curves would go up to infinity, in spite of many predictions.

Fofotron_Antoris · 2023-10-23T06:12:04+00:00

A significant number of women who have given birth are in a polygamous arrangement these days, the differece from the past being that the man/Chad who knocked them up doesn't have to take responsibility, and the costs are offloaded to the State.

Why do you think we have such an explosion of single mothers these days ?

George69143 · 2023-10-23T03:00:49+00:00

I agree to an extent but I think throughout history women also found most men unattractive but just had more reasons to settle. They don’t have this today, and yes, it is an obvious precursor to society’s collapse.

OtPayOkerSmay · 2023-10-23T04:37:52+00:00

Agreed. While there are many reasons for choosing to be childless, a large part of the current situation boils down to that women are embracing more freedom

When it inevitably turns out, from a shift in research goals and media presentation, that mothers (possibly even going as far as SAHM) are the happiest demographic of women, a lot of women will change their tone very quick on children - and they'll direct the freedom towards securing decent husbands and building families. Full circle.

MotleyCrew1989 · 2023-10-23T02:29:16+00:00

The reason most men don't have a partner today is because most women have chosen to be childless.

Wrong, most men dont have a partner because women´s hypergamy went out of control.

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WilliamWyattD · 2023-10-23T01:59:19+00:00

Yes and No. In recent civilization, the ultimate marriage rate was high, as was the percentage of women that had children.

However, it has always been the case that there is a much larger pool of sexually excluded men at the bottom of the SMP than of women. This is partly due to wombs being more valuable than sperm. It is also due to innately greater female sexual selectivity that socialization can only repress to some extent, without becoming truly draconian. Finally, due to male variability theory, 'left tailed' men on various key distributions are--in absolute terms--much less viable as basic human beings and contributing members of society than the equivalent women.

It should also be noted that in the past, death in wars and dangerous jobs for men, and childbirth for women, did kill off a fair number of people, allowing for some doubling up. It was not uncommon at times for successful men to have a second wife and family after the first wife was born. Think Cinderella.

But technology has broken the wheel of history. We are more free in the West than at any time in history, but only in a straightforward sense: from absolute material need and legal/social coercion. The power of technologically-boosted socialization is also staggeringly powerful in another. People that say that the freedom modern West means we are finally revealing our 'true, natural selves' are nuts.

noafrochamplusamurai · 2023-10-23T02:16:56+00:00

It isn't population collapse, it's population replacement. The world population is going to be pretty stable. It's just western Europe, China, and Japan that are going to have serious losses, but their will be population gains in the Americas, Africa, and most of Asia.

banned4tellindtruth · 2023-10-23T10:55:52+00:00

The population collapse has already happened, for a variety of social, cultural, and economic reasons.

High-income Western countries' population growth is all due to immigration, not natural reproduction.

Being monogamous and wanting children should guarantee every man getting a female partner. Our current dating environment is just an anomaly before population collapse.

Comments

I’m pointing out, clearly, that youth fun is not being a slut/ hoe as you directly stated in the quote above.

thats the point of youth fun. Being able to prioritize yourself and your peace and joy over a man. I clearly outlined how it is not being a slut/ hoe as you radically proclaimed.

your children.

your children