Women insist that their “taste” or standards are instinctual and without any outside influence, and that they can’t be changed when the opposite has been proven when it comes to physical attraction. Their inflated standards are quite clearly the direct result of their abundance of options.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-06-21T19:06:21+00:00

Women insist that their “taste” or standards are instinctual and without any outside influence

I'm pretty sure it's red pillers et al who say that.

It is no coincidence that women’s skyrocketing standards are directly proportional to their number of options, and coinciding with the age of social media and online dating.

I mean yeah, aren't y'all always saying dating works like a market? That's how markets work.

bluestjuice · 2023-06-21T20:01:14+00:00

I’m not sure anyone believes their tastes are uninfluenced by circumstances; at the very least this is a pretty naive worldview that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.

chalkandapples · 2023-06-21T19:30:52+00:00

Standards definitely can change. But for myself, 80% of what I like was rather solidified based on my upbringing including family and community I grew up in. There are stuff that never wavered. There's some stuff that can change, and I grew to appreciate or dislike certain qualities more as I got to know different people and got more life experience. Even though there is some flexibility there, it would still be impractical to try to change someone's taste. If it happen to change to your benefit, that's cool, but don't rely or bank on someone changing their taste.

When it comes to standards and options, that's a bit different. There are many people that I like and totally click with me, but I can only date one of them, so of course you pick the one that you like the most, or click with you the most. That's not a taste issue. You can like someone but still not date them if they're not your best option. I think that's true for everyone.

fiendishthingysaurus · 2023-06-21T21:34:40+00:00

Where’s your evidence that women claim their preferences are instinctual and without outside influence? Obviously beauty standards change all the time. I don’t know anyone who claims to be unaffected.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-06-21T23:39:04+00:00

I disagree, I’d say taste and standards are pretty heavily influenced by culture and trends. That being said, a lot of women’s lack of attraction to men’s profile pics has to with a) the pics men use, and b) women’s lower sexual attraction to purely visual stimuli.

Men’s standards for looks have also skyrocketed since social media, surgery, and photo editing have become so prevalent.

Unnecessary-Training · 2023-06-21T21:14:19+00:00

Do you have any objective data suggesting women's preferences have increased? Or is this only your own personal frustrations speaking?

Baezil · 2023-06-21T21:34:54+00:00

The sooner you can see that you are not convincing women they are wrong/bad, just convincing yourself they are wrong/bad, the better off you will be.

Convincing yourself that them not wanting you is because they are wrong/bad is a road to nowhere.

sublimemongrel · 2023-06-21T20:45:47+00:00

I’ve dated two guys I wasn’t attracted to hoping it would eventually come and it never did. This was before online dating was much of a thing (and certainly before young people were using it). The lack of attraction had nothing to do with “inflated standards”. I wanted to date these men, I wanted to be their girlfriend. But the attraction did not come so it was doomed to fail.

philseven12 · 2023-06-22T00:08:04+00:00

most women have been and will always be attracted to and aroused by tall and handsome dudes. its unchanging, women may end up with less than their ideal partner but thats after they give up on chasing the “upper” tier of men.

its futile to try and explain how unrealistic you may feel women are being. most women are willing to sink with the ship on this. attractive men and unattractive men are like two different species in a womens eyes.

id never encourage women to lower their standards because when they lower their standards, they bring toxicity, resentment, and anger from all their failed attempts at getting the higher level men.

if women want to be players and chase perfection then let them go for it. not all women are like what im describing so i have my own criteria and standards for the type of woman i engage with.

most women cannot be “refurbished” into seeing value in a average guy. im glad they keep chasing the stars no matter how many times they fail. many of the ones who give up and get involved with the average guy create conflict, dead bedrooms, and psychological abuse.

not every woman is on the same level. not every woman is the same rank socially. just as men have different levels, a woman who is a failed player in the game is not suitable for the average guy who just wants a nice gf.

most women have always wanted the tall and handsome dude but now society and social media has opened things up so that men are finally able to catch on to what women like. women havent changed a bit, they are just free to chase their fantasies.

ReplacementPasta · 2023-06-21T19:37:55+00:00

Where do y'all find these women who have some very "Inflated standards"

If anything, the standards for physical attractiveness is quite low for most people.

1Here4Bach · 2023-06-21T19:33:05+00:00

You say the same for males. 300 years ago males weren’t demanding that women shave every inch of their body. They would happily fuck a hairy woman. Now? Males have a mental break down over a little bush and arm pit hair.

Males complain about the fat acceptance movement and claim the powers that be are forcing them to find fat women attractive. History has proven that social norms change what males find attractive so why does forcing males to like fat women piss them off so much?

Simply put, wether attraction is dictated by social norms or not you can’t force a certain characteristic to become popular.

You don’t want women forcing you to be attracted to something you aren’t so stop doing it to women.

EmptyBox5653 · 2023-06-21T20:25:09+00:00

Of course a million different factors - which I’m sure include the current availability of one’s options - influence individual human sexual attraction / lack thereof, and their sexual repulsion towards other humans.

There’s really no such thing as free will in the way we usually think about it. Our brains make what seems to us as an instantaneous calculus of whether or not to send arousal chemical signals. From our perspective since we think we “made a decision”, we incorrectly attribute our behaviors to the false construct of free will existing independently of the brain.

In reality, the brain’s decision making is dependent on billions of data points gathered over a lifetime of experiences, which is why sexual preferences aren’t always static as more information is collected.

The point is, we are not in control of what triggers our sexual desire or revulsion, which is I think what you’re trying to say in your post.

But for some reason you’re arguing it would be somehow useful or vindicating to men if women could “admit” that their innate preferences, impulses, thoughts, behaviors, etc. are not within their control. Standards necessarily increase as the brain becomes aware that better options are likely available.

I don’t think this requires anyone to “admit” to it. Who is claiming this is untrue? And why do you think this is a gendered phenomenon? Men’s brains operate exactly this way. Any particular man’s brain is deciding for him if it’s worth it to sexually engage with a potential partner.

Think of it from the brain’s perspective. When the opportunity to interact with any given potential mating partner presents itself to the brain, it calculates the likelihood of finding a more ideal partner than this one.

You seem to think there’s some kind of inherent unfairness between the sexes, but the likelihood of finding someone better is not any higher in the female population. In fact, anecdotally, I’d argue there are far, far fewer eligible men who will trigger sexual attraction in a given woman. So by that logic, her brain should be willing to settle for the “good enough” man in front of her, and get on with releasing the horny chemicals.

coffeecups5 · 2023-06-21T21:34:08+00:00

I’ll admit that I’ve dated guys I NEVER would have because I was in a geographical setting with zero better options.

At least for me, it is/was a thing.

IndependentBiter · 2023-06-22T10:01:30+00:00

I feel like men who make statements like this generally have only one type of woman in mind - the conventionally attractive one. Because the reality is that women also struggle to find a partner if they don’t fit the beauty standard, but I guess they don’t count as women to some people… This illusion that women never have issues finding a partner or that men have no standards themselves is insane.

operapeach · 2023-06-22T00:37:53+00:00

Do you consciously control who you are attracted to?

What is this obsession with trying to force women to be attracted to people they aren’t? The entitlement is unreal.

tinableuu · 2023-06-21T22:24:47+00:00

lol i like what I like wtf?? So u guys don’t have types? Or standards? Y do we have to penalized because we have god forbid a type like what? Every girl isn’t attracted to every guy and every guy isn’t attracted to every girl u gotta get in we’re u fit in

MyLastBestChance · 2023-06-21T23:12:09+00:00

Why would we want to force ourselves to reduce our standards? That’s the part I don’t understand🤷‍♀️

Also, let’s assume that women everywhere all agreed and said “Why yes, we acknowledge that the vast majority of the men who hit on us would happily fuck a rolling donut if they could!” (Which, btw, we all know…), why would that make us want to choose the less attractive potential donut fuckers as our special fellas?🤔

Cjaylyle · 2023-06-21T19:03:21+00:00

So if a woman somehow manages to brainwash herself into BARELY pushing an unattractive guy into the attractive threshold, then A - he’s barely in there so can easily go back into unattractive territory if he lets himself slide and B - many more men will be deemed attractive so competition is even fiercer

Quite simply, as a man, if you want to attract women - get gud

Mrs_Drgree · 2023-06-21T19:46:20+00:00

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Active-Razzmatazz-86 · 2023-06-21T19:03:04+00:00

Also hive mind

GemXi · 2023-06-21T19:12:18+00:00

Women have higher standards because they have to for their genes to replicate due to lopsided obligatory parental investment that is astronomical. Has nothing to do with environmental influences.

Mrs_Drgree · 2023-06-21T21:58:01+00:00

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zen-things · 2023-06-21T19:53:58+00:00

Hahahahah, just as valid as: “Men report to be more ass men than boob men”.

Solid clickbait. Not solid science.

Custard-Gyal · 2023-06-21T21:51:53+00:00

even when dating apps weren't popular, I had a LOT of trouble finding someone I was attracted to. It's part of the reason I was a virgin so long. It WAS something like 1/100 at the very least. It's very similar to the ratio when I use dating apps.

perplekiddo · 2023-06-22T04:07:04+00:00

you’re so wrong lmfao. the red pillers are the ones who do that stuff with the excuses for dating teens or wanting someone small and submissive. they say its a instinctual/biological thing when its not

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-06-22T09:29:10+00:00

When women say “sorry I can’t help who I’m attracted to” they are not being entirely honest with themselves or us.

It's literally a physical involuntary reaction. People ask themselves internally "Can I picture myself kissing this person's mouth" and so on and so forth. Not necessarily in words/internal monologue, but as a sort of 'ping' in the mind.

If they acknowledged that the abundance of advances they received,

Plenty of women don't receive an "abundance" of advances, and some arrive when they are children, or from horrible men, or in the form of a subtle threat of assault instead of a friendly request for a number. Some men experience this too. A straight guy followed around by a tall, broad-shouldered aggressive bear type who keeps pinching his ass and not taking 'no' for an answer is not necessarily going to be happy with this 'abundance'.

Most guys could get a willing mouth going down on them from Grindr in 10-30 minutes but wouldn't consider that a palatable abundance because they're simply not attracted to those people.

NO I AM NOT SUGGESTING WOMEN FVCK UGLY MEN

And hopefully you're not suggesting women entertain dates with any men they're not into, for any reason, even if he isn't 'ugly'. And vice versa, men should not be expected to date someone they are not attracted to.

It is well known that women consistently disregard or underrate above average and attractive men, as evidenced by the 80/20 principle which is likely more lopsided than that.

It's not. You're seem to be referring to something that was a blog from a single dating app. If you are, you're conveniently skirting around the fact that more women reached out to a broader variety of men lookwise and messaged them and the men reached out to a narrower set of attractive women.

The prison effect is a perfect example of the sexual adaptation that humans are capable of.

A lot of that is not consensual... it's not adaptation, it's coercion.

It is no coincidence that women’s skyrocketing standards

It's just consent. And whatever gains their consent... nobody has to change it for any reason. If you don't consent you don't consent. Full stop.

Your first link is 'swipe right'. That doesn't just have to do with attraction. Plenty of people you might be hot for and attracted to of all types of appearances but have to swipe left on because they want children or have children already and it's not compatible with your values or life. Or you have to swipe left because they are a smoker, or a progressive, or a conservative, or what have you.

It was also based in India and on one app (QuackQuack). The sample size is great but the methodology from QuackQuack not so much.

The second is an article and does not refer to a study. It's a first person experience of the prison system and describes sexual assault, not consensual sex. Rapists tend to go for whomever is vulnerable.

"That was September 1996. On my release I went for the first time to medium custody. Because they refused to treat me fairly, I filed a lawsuit against the officers involved, Mr. Cano, his supervisor, was married to the Head of Classification. The attacks went on, and in the end I was attacked physically by officers. "

Pen.org is a writer/literature/blogging website which also notes it has an interest in human rights. Again there is no study or statistics on that second link, it appears to be one person's writing expression about their experiences in a Texas prison.

Preme2 · 2023-06-21T19:23:30+00:00

Women get most of their tastes or standards from social media. Personality build by Instagram. Body built by Taco Bell.

They see one “popular” woman do something, then they all start clamoring behind her. Monkey see, monkey do.

neetykeeno · 2023-06-21T21:19:19+00:00

"The prison effect is a perfect example..."

Ummmm...

Actually...

It's a kind of creepy example.

Nyxolith · 2023-06-21T19:41:14+00:00

Women on dating apps*

Safinated · 2023-06-21T21:29:49+00:00

I would still find the same men hot whether I was 100 or 300 lbs, or whether I was 14 or 44. And I’m never going to meet, fuck, date or marry them, so who cares?

Now standards, on the other hand, are changeable. Mine, for example, have become stricter as I’ve gotten older, and I think that is quite normal for all genders

WilliamWyattD · 2023-06-21T21:35:35+00:00

Yes, women's actual attractiveness thresholds are socially malleable.

The issue is convincing women that some kind of concerted plan to lower those thresholds is in women's interests. It is, but it is also counterintuitive. Does any guy want to be Big Hal?

wtknight · 2023-06-21T21:49:09+00:00

Women don't have an abundance of options, though. The high value men that an average value woman is interested in just want to use her for sex.

DicamVeritatem · 2023-06-21T20:57:48+00:00

“And why do you think this is a gendered phenomenon? Think of it from the brain’s perspective. When the opportunity to interact with any given potential mating partner presents itself to the brain, it calculates the likelihood of finding a more ideal partner than this one.”

No, this is gendered, and men do process this differently. What you are describing is hypergamy. Men’s brains say “is she good enough - yes/no”, with little regard for available alternatives, while women, the hypergamous gender, ask “is he better than the other guys who I can choose from?”

Amazing-Key-1575 · 2023-06-21T22:46:29+00:00

Unfortunately today there are very few ways to satisfactorily obtain & retain a steady, equitable, reciprocal relationship with a morally upright & attractive woman:

Meet & date & marry & probably impregnate following her desire to be the Mother of your children whilst you are consistently a good man to this honest, conservatively moderate, monogamously adherent, likely traditionalist woman who desires, believes in, and is capable of love - both realistically romantic, sexually satisfactory, & lasting beyond Disney sparkles passionate beginning - who was likely raised in a healthy environment (few & far between), and once independent persisted beyond rebellious experimentation (hoe phase for her was 1/10th as extreme as her peers) & who wisely chose moderation over excess in all things - who is likely taken already. hopefully by you. If values and standards remain steadfastly positive, and long term oriented you may be and have a keeper. The point of this first option is you need to be a valuable person.

Unfortunately this option can be swiped up by a bad boy in a moment of weakness & left chasing golden Chad’s whilst Charlie’s brown & down to earth (in a grave for sayings sake, a ghost of Christmas past).

This is the rare good woman who plays no games outside of natural human nature, and the chances that you are a good man are exceptionally slim so I wouldn’t bet on it.

Pay for what you want via escort services. This is the most honest relationship revolving around sex that you can have as a male.

If you are prone to falling in love easily, you may be taken for a ride and become a Pay Pig before you can say Cheese, smiling for the Restraining Order arrest you get when your obsession’s taken you too far & your money’s run out from all the gifts you bought her.

If you’re broke the hoes you can buy do not measure up to the standards of a respectable escort, thereby this option is off limits lest you save up for the equivalent of a monthly Pet Deposit per 45 min session.

If you’re not respectable, don’t have a hint of game, or are purely misogynistic in an inappropriate manner, you will get arrested eventually and banned from all local escorts.

Look at escorts like the hidden status mill, where who and how you are is shared with every escort in town. Best behave according to the agreed upon rules. This doesn’t mean, however, your secrets aren’t safe with her. If I killed a man I’d therapeute with an escort over an LMFT any day.

If you’re honest about what you want, and who you are, and treat Her like you would any other woman, outside of the expediency of transactional sexuality’s arrangement clarified at the beginning of the exchange, you may have - as a regular client - what you’ve wanted all along.

Date the modern woman: Hinge (“desires relationship”, will [pull ‘I never do this, omg’] and does fuck Chad(s)); Tinder (‘doesn’t know what she’s doing there & deletes it every month!’; selling OnlyFans, advertising Instagram, Snapchat, and TikTok; or generally undesirable; all who can and do fuck Chad(s); Bumble (probably near the wall, used to be Christian, in a Sorority, has a job in Sales/Marketing; is networking as much as dating - because to many networking = dating; vetting you for submission to the contemporary paradigm of pseudo-equality, where the woman takes the reigns & is made to message first if you match); and all the rest: ghetto-bot-ad infested Data Collection platforms.

With these apps, one wrong comment, one wrong pic, it’s 4PM, you have a hat on, whatever - you are literally the least valuable thing on earth.

You are already seen as less than for even being on the app if you’re not Chad - why? Because clearly you have no luck in real life. Why isn’t Chad an equal loser for using the app? Because he’s an ASSSHOLE not a Creep(TM), and assholes get pussy so it’s just expected Chad has a low effort profile.

Use apps, you must play a game designed to make you lose.

RocinanteCoffee · 2023-06-22T02:41:51+00:00

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Educational_Tank_175 · 2023-06-22T19:20:42+00:00

There is some truth to what you say, and in today's society, where women are being taught, there are no consequences for your actions. Women are acting on escalated hypergamy, instincts to throw themselves at males that they will never secure.

These women will rack up their body counts and accrue emotional damage from attaching and reattaching in sexual relations and relationships, which will change them and their behaviors making them very unattractive to men in later in their life, 30+ and beyond. As women are impressionable, the frequent partner exchange decreases their ability to pair bond, and makes them have a darker, more cynical worldview with less appreciation of men unless optimism hence why men are much less attracted to them.

Normally, mothers and society would instruct women to find themselves a good mate in their 20s before they hit the wall at 30 when body appearance plummets and accelerated aging affects women's desirability. Now in society, women have been lied to and told they can do whatever they want throughout their entire lifespan, hence why we get hundreds of thousands of women that post on social media About their sad bitter lives post 30 years old. That's why you see so many bitter, hostile angry at the world women in today's society.

So when men are young, it is rougher on men in the dating market, but things get a lot easier at around 30 years old I promise you. Good luck, brother.

throwawayVishot · 2023-06-22T02:45:32+00:00

If they acknowledged that the abundance of advances they received, the vast majority of which are to use them for sex and not because they were desirable, was the direct cause for their inflated “standards” then their self images and consequently standards would reflect this.

I was there before dating apps and women were picky back then as well. Not as picky as they are now but still delusional.

Honestly it was the best thing that ever happened to us. Because we as men ended up with quite a bit of value and the women around us hit the wall hard.

Understand that there is little that women can offer an independent man. Sex - you can rent better. Food - get real they can't and won't cook. Company - I have an Xbox. They have nothing to bargain with. We know this but they don't.

Women have been told that they should hold out for rich men who are going to treat them special. Because that's how women think it ought to work.

Leave women alone. In 15 years or so you will have all the leverage and they will be old bags wondering where their Prince is.

The data is in, and has been collected DIRECTLY FROM DATING APPS. It is well known that women consistently disregard or underrate above average and attractive men, as evidenced by the 80/20 principle which is likely more lopsided than that.

If they didn't do this you would end up marrying down. Their families would find them a good prospect and your family would sell you out because they don't think you should have a Maserati and 2 blonde strippers. Society would pressure you to settle down and provide for an average-ugly woman that would refuse to sleep with you.

These modern women deserve the best and we do not measure up to their standards. We need to get out of their way and find women on our level.

Annual_Ad_1536 · 2023-06-22T07:07:51+00:00

Women do not have inflated standards.

learn2earn89 · 2023-06-22T19:03:11+00:00

If anything I’d argue it’s the opposite. Men seemed to be more affected by peers and society when it comes to looks, just my two cents.

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wtknight · 2023-06-21T21:40:42+00:00

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keenenandraz · 2023-06-21T22:09:58+00:00

It's "instinctual" until they're desperate and need some beta buxx nice guy to settle for when they're past their prime and losing options. Funny how standards become flexible when the fear of loneliness kicks in. It's not that their standards can't change, but rather, that refuse to change them so long as they believe they have an abundance of options.

honeycall · 2023-06-21T23:37:13+00:00

Interesting

DoinIt989 · 2023-06-22T00:24:56+00:00

Everybody has tastes. Most women have very reasonable tastes, when it comes down to it. The "6/6/6" stereotype rarely exists in reality. Women fuck ugly, loser men all the time.

Men have "instinctual" taste too. I can't speak for all men here, but personally, I have fairly "picky" tastes compared to what the world actually looks like (only pursue white or white-ish girls, maybe East Asian if she's really cool, prefer women with stick thin arms, prefer "arty" or "intellectual" women, generally don't date women without a college degree, strongly prefer ones who finished their degree in 4-5 years at the normal age).

Women's standards really aren't that high on aggregate tbh. A lot of women fuck absolutely disgusting losers because they need dick and/or can't handle being single. "Skyrocketing" standards simply don't exist, if anything women's standards are way lower in 2023 than in 1970.

yilmephooo · 2023-06-22T00:54:51+00:00

What is the 80/20 principle

Billsandasonom · 2023-06-22T03:33:21+00:00

I mean taste is always inherently significantly affected by outside influence or environmental factors and exposure, so the CMV is hardly unique to modern women.

solstice-sky · 2023-06-22T07:59:36+00:00

The data is in, and has been collected DIRECTLY FROM DATING APPS. It is well known that women consistently disregard or underrate above average and attractive men, as evidenced by the 80/20 principle which is likely more lopsided than that.

Stop conflating dating app stats with real life. Dating apps are an artificial environment where women judge men solely on appearance. In the real world (the only one that matters), women date and marry their looksmatch and 50+% of men are married or partnered. The 80/20 rule doesn’t apply to the real world when the majority of men are in relationships.

Stop using dating app statistics to warp your perception on the world.

neverendingplush · 2023-06-22T08:05:09+00:00

If you had an abundance of options your taste would be different too. I bet 90% of people marries now wouldn't be with their current partner had they had the options they desired. Makes you really question what is "love".

Green-Quantity1032 · 2023-06-22T12:33:21+00:00

So?

It doesn't make it any less instinctual, it just makes it conditioned on available options.

but the options ARE available, at least sexually.

So what are you suggesting exactly?

NJFlowerchild · 2023-06-22T16:04:04+00:00

Your post is about women being too picky about looks. You chose an article for a dating app in India where 40% of people don't upload pictures. Despite these conditions the male user on average chats with 10 different women. Your hypothesis doesn't hold up. If the average male user is talking to 10 women it doesn't hold that women's standards are too high.

Think_gawd · 2023-06-22T16:39:50+00:00

Underated

YveisGrey · 2023-06-22T17:34:23+00:00

I don’t think that when women say they “can’t help who they are attracted to” that this means that outside factors haven’t influenced their attraction rather it means that once they are attracted to someone they can’t really change that and/or that they cannot become attracted to someone they aren’t attracted to.

Everyone becomes more picky with options. There’s even a term for it choice paralysis which is when you have too many choices and can’t choose.

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