Why do men not tell other men to be vulnerable, AND, why do women tell men to be more vulnerable, en masse?

babazuki · 2024-01-26T14:26:35+00:00

Because women aren't exposed to male emotions often, they have a distorted view of what masculine emotion is.

When they tell a man to open up, they never expect to see fear, sadness, or anxiety. They think men are tough and shallow.

When they realize men are humans like them, it ruins their perception and they start thinking the man is more feminine.

115ron · 2024-01-26T17:28:41+00:00

When women say "be vulnerable", in most cases they imagine a scenario, in which the man sobs a bit over a lost relative / pet / whatever sad thing they experienced, gets comforted and then returns to being the provider the woman loves, all while strengthening the bond between them.

Opening up about:

Fear
Shame
Anxiety
Feeling lost
Feeling weak/out of control
Feeling unmotivated

Is something the instinctual side of women hate to see, because if the person who is supposed to be their host feels these things then they are less likely to be able to protect them, hence they start feeling unsafe, hence they start looking for another potential mate. Women essentially gaslight themselves just as much when they say this, as they gaslight men. They like to think that they are empathic and support emotional openness, yet they don't realize that the only possible negative emotion they could honestly accept in this situation is sadness.

treadmarks · 2024-01-26T13:21:24+00:00

Because men have the experience that whenever they whine or cry about something, they get mocked and criticized. Usually by women.

You can see it all over this subreddit. Men having feelings, desires, and standards is consistently invalidated.

Triglycerine · 2024-01-26T14:22:18+00:00

Because it's a trap.

No-Rough-7390 · 2024-01-26T12:03:44+00:00

Because in this scenario, men are looking at what it is and women are looking at what they wish things could be like in their minds.

Women also don’t really understand that men and women process emotions differently.

Mahlah_Maldau · 2024-01-26T15:26:01+00:00

Me & my homies are vulnerable to each other and are able to talk about anything without any fear of judgement. Now now, I didn't used to have such great friends. I found good friends only after lots of messy situations and dealing with shitty people. I think the same goes with finding a partner.

Secret_Sorbet_9674 · 2024-01-26T14:02:56+00:00

I think women (and tbh guys too) may worry that guys who never express weakness or instability are probably actually hiding some major problems deep inside that will only come out when he hits the bottle, loses his job or worse becomes a mass shooter or something. A guy who is nice and stable-ish most of the time, but occasionally acts up or breaks down a little (ideally not being actually abusive, but maybe shouty, throwing things, crying when drunk) seems like more of a known quantity. Women are unnerved by the idea that a man is either supressing or hiding weaknesses or problems generally.

And maybe there's something to it actually.

ReplacementPasta · 2024-01-26T11:59:43+00:00

I only ever see anyone talk about this online.

Like, if you are in a relationship or have good friendships of course its expected to be vurnable with them.

loziking11 · 2024-01-26T12:26:02+00:00

Hmmmm so here's my take and it might not apply everywhere....if you are in a transactional relationship then being vulnerable with your girl is a very big no and it absolutely never ends well!and thats why a lot of men will tell you thats a very bad idea...if shes in a transactional relationship and you are unaware again you are 100% going to burned....if you have a genuine relationship then definitely vulnerability is a part of the process ots hard for most to achieve and so the advice of nost will be against it

throwaway164_3 · 2024-01-26T14:23:38+00:00

Because men and women are fundamentally very different.

XX ≠ XY

RelationshipSalty369 · 2024-01-26T12:30:23+00:00

I don't know about men telling men to be honest since I'm a woman but I always wanted my partners to be vulnerable and acknowledge when things aren't going well for them because a) for all the talk of "men are different", the emotions involved are really, really similar. People get hurt. They have a shit day at work and either want to be left alone to process it, or they want to do something else. And that's fine - but you have to verbalise that, tell me it's been shit and you're going to play games alone for a few hours. That's ok! But wandering around the house huffing and puffing about whatever it is then saying you're "fine" obviously isn't working to make anyone feel better. And at worst, it's going to make everyone in the house miserable.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-01-26T13:56:48+00:00

Men are afraid of being seen as weak. That’s it.

The playground “boys don’t cry!” “Suck it up!” “Don’t let them see you sweat!” Taken to the furthest degree on those who are afraid they will be laughed at and publicly humiliated and embarrassed.

And that’s what’s behind it all: fear. That’s whats behind a lot of the PPD issues. Dudes are afraid but don’t want to admit it because: yup that shows weakness.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2024-01-26T14:30:02+00:00

Do men tell other men not to be vulnerable because of:

Combination of 1 and 2

Do women tell other men to be vulnerable because of:

1 and 2 are both wrong, the reason women say they want is because it's socially expected for them to say and because baseline narcissism. They need to be above the other peoples in a emotional level and because women understand it to be something shameful (the act of a men showing vunerability) it make her possible action of putting with the male vunerability a mark of morality but when push come to shove she'll bail out and because she can't even fathom the idea of her being, at her own eyes, a bad partner she'll push the blame in the man labeling it as trauma dumping or some other made up thing or just slowly checkout from the relationship.

2024-01-26T19:02:53+00:00

I don’t say this generally because I know there’s plenty of people out there who won’t take it well or use that info against you and I don’t want anyone to feel like I’m setting them up to get hurt. However I definitely am someone that you can talk to and I will be much more comfortable around you if I get to know you better. So when I say that, it’s more knowing myself and how I’d react to it than telling a guy he should do that in general.

boom-wham-slam · 2024-01-26T13:29:46+00:00

It's a shit test. For sure. 100%

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-01-26T16:08:29+00:00

This is a manosphere myth. I work with the manliest, most rugged outdoor men who do a physically taxing job which requires the use of a multitude of tools, and I've seen them all cry. I've seen them all hug, seen them all "vulnerable", seen them mourn deaths and relationships and flat fall apart when sick or stressed. I've seen men on my stupid beer league softball team cry in frustration when they lose a tournament. I've seen all kinds of grown men cry in impotent rage on the golf course. I worked for a veterinarian in high school, and men cried over sick and dying pets daily. Men cry over sick friends and relatives, it's no big deal. They cry at the birth of their own children, their grandchildren and nieces and nephews, it's endearing. Ask any NICU or delivery nurse/doc.

No one gives a shit. I've never seen a single man recoil in disgust when his friend or coworker expresses emotions.

Y'all really have to drop your granddad's John Wayne emotionless, expressionless ideology. It's not a thing. It wasn't a thing in their time, either, Boomers just suck at relating to their kids and lack the parenting skills to support their children. The same men taught their daughters that all men are pigs and should be greeted at the door with shotguns.

Sure you want to cling to mid century masculinity, when it hamstrings men on every level?

floofyvulture · 2024-01-26T13:25:49+00:00

Is it really vulnerability if you know you'll be accepted?

ArtifactFan65 · 2024-01-26T13:40:06+00:00

Most women are constantly passive shit testing and looking for any signs of weakness in her partner. If he shows too much vulnerability then this will trigger a disgust response in the woman and she will lose faith in his capability as a man.

2024-01-26T16:46:23+00:00

It does turn girls off in my experience.

Mysterious_Leg1668 · 2024-01-26T13:23:06+00:00

Guys do talk to other guys & their partners but they reserve it for when it’s needed. I.e limit the complaining and get on with it.
Because that’s how women deal with emotions so they think it’ll be useful for guys to deal with them the same way.

kc_ch · 2024-01-26T12:50:29+00:00

There's no need to men tell other men to not be vulnerable in front of women, bc if they do one time they will learn why you should not do it ever. Women are the ones bashing men when they let themselfs be vulnerable

KayRay1994 · 2024-01-26T14:55:20+00:00

because there is a massive miscommunication on how vulnerability is presented + lots of the men who are against expressing vulnerability view it as weakness.

Thing is, like it or not, at the end of the day, most times, we’re attracted to whatever might fit our gender roles best - so when women say they want a man to be vulnerable, they mean vulnerable in a way of looking at your problems as something to be solved, express your issues, but not in the form of an aimless rant, be emotional, but also know the right place and time and be sure that the emotion fits the situation. However, when lots of men hear vulnerability, they think of things like aimless ranting or trauma dumping - and as such, when they express it, they rant/trauma dump and of course that doesn’t go well

emorizoti · 2024-01-26T14:57:47+00:00

Sometimes it is either a shit test or trying to see your weakness so it can be abused and used against you. These are the possibilities.

But in a healthy relationship, both sides would be vulnerable to each other and be open. But even then, as a general rule and by society norms, men should open and be vulnerable at a very much later stage when they are fully convinced with time that their SO has totally bonded with them. Until then you need to mask any kind of insecurities, fears or moments of weakness. You open up early into dating or relationship and it is over.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2024-01-26T15:26:40+00:00

I’ve never had to tell a LTR to be more vulnerable because to be honest they never had a problem with it to begin with. We were always very open about our thoughts and feelings. I don’t know where any of this discourse comes from.

Agile_Celebration492 · 2024-01-26T15:36:34+00:00

Lol men don't hide vulnerability for fear of rejection, they hide vulnerability because being vunerable gets you fucked up.

nytnaltx · 2024-01-26T15:59:16+00:00

It depends who you’re dating. I’ve never “told men” to be vulnerable, but I know for a fact that when vulnerability is done right, it increases the connection that I have with a guy. I fell for my last ex boyfriend after he opened up to me about some particular struggles he had being an Albanian in the U.S., especially knowing that it wasn’t something he’d talked to many people about. Especially when someone is usually very stoic, but you see they are willing to open up and trust you, it feels like an honor that they trust you and are taking you in to their more vulnerable areas, knowing you won’t hurt them or judge them.

If your vulnerability is telling me that you struggle with crushing low self esteem or awful depression, it may not be as positive because now I’m questioning how stable you are or if you are mentally fit enough to be a good partner. If your vulnerability reveals that you are a whiner with a victim mentality who takes no accountability for your life, then I’m going to be turned off by those qualities.

In short, vulnerability done right will probably strengthen your relationship, unless it reveals that you are significantly flawed/lacking in some way that is likely to harm that relationship.

apresonly · 2024-01-26T16:33:21+00:00

because you cannot be healthy without good relationships and you can't have good relationships without vulnerability

grown_folks_talkin · 2024-01-26T16:40:09+00:00

Presenting oneself as invulnerable, or very on control of his emotions in beneficial to a man’s entire well-being. You are much more likely to be respected by others when you are like this. Exceptions to this rule apply to exceptional men that either displayed a high amount of talent or are in positions of power. For a man in the bulk of the bell curve it’s better to be stoic as a default.

For many women when dealing with such a man they respect his calm demeanor, especially if he has displayed competence in the face of adversity. When that foundation of respect is firmly in place, seeing his vulnerable side is seen as an invitation into his inner sanctum, something most women crave.

Zabadoodude · 2024-01-26T16:50:50+00:00

Women genuinely want men to open up to them, but if they discover something that makes their man seem weak they will be less attracted to him. It's not malicious, but it's something to be aware of. Men know this from experience.

It's good to tell your girl where you're coming from, but make sure it's not too often, and doesn't make you seem too weak.

E.g. revealing to your girl that your dad was abusive when you were a child so that's why you decided to maintain your distance from him as an adult - fine

Breaking down, crying about how you feel you were not loved by your dad - not fine

thatguywhosadick · 2024-01-26T19:20:53+00:00

I can’t tell you how it is for every man, but for many men I know as well as in my own personal experience, opening up about certain issues can either be a turnoff, and/or just becomes something that is kept in their back pocket to be used later as a deeply cutting insult during a fight.

I’m not saying the solution is to never open up as you have to be able to do so in a healthy relationship imo, but I understand why some men are so apprehensive and warn others against doing it too readily when such bad outcomes are a common issue.

SillyMushroomTip · 2024-01-26T12:32:51+00:00

Women tell men to be more vulnerable so they can have an upper hand

snowyjenna · 2024-01-26T13:10:09+00:00

Honestly, I only saw people on the internet talk about this, but from what I've observed, men tell other men not to be vulnerable because they had experiences when they were vulnerable and it was used against them.

As for women, it makes us feel special when our partner opens up to us because men are tougher in that regard. A man being vulnerable means he feels really safe in that relationship, and he trusts his partner very much.

soppingwettiddies · 2024-01-26T13:09:55+00:00

Think of it like wackamole, the more open and vulnerable a man is the more others can attack him and bring him down. We are a tournament species so almost everything is against men while being pro women since women are a commodity of the earth the whole world revolves around them and their female species of mammals.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2024-01-26T12:28:54+00:00

Men say it because, if they are vulnerable in front of men, 80% of men will ridicule and insult them, maybe even bully them and laugh at them for their life and the 20%(me included) don't know what the hell to do, like I'll probably try and say 'I'm sorry for you'. Because the men as a community do not know how to handle their insecurities and troubles.

And women say that because they as a community can rely on each other for emotional support and are not aware that men suck at this

DarayRaven · 2024-01-26T12:31:20+00:00

Exactly what would expressing your emotions look like ?

Seems people just want an excuse to cry 24/7 everytime this topic comes up

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-01-26T13:57:00+00:00

Men who are convinced it’s better for men to not be vulnerable in order to attract women are the kind of men who think women are 1) lying about what they’re attracted to for some reason, or 2) too stupid to know what they actually like. So they explain to each other what they think women actually like based on a few loud talking charlatans on YouTube instead of actually listening to women and like, mental health professionals.

akaean · 2024-01-26T13:47:50+00:00

Look. The consequences for men being vulnerable don't come from women... it comes from other men.

This is one of those toxic masculinity things where other men will punish a man showing vulnerability. When a man is broken, women will by and large show support and try to help. When a man is broken, other men will tell them to "walk it off" and "man up" at best. At worst other men will call them slurs referencing the lgbtq+ community.

I wish men could be more vulnerable. But I understand that with masculine culture being what it is, showing vulnerability can result in being ostracized by their own.

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Salt_Mathematician24 · 2024-01-26T12:47:41+00:00

Men tell other men not to be vulnerable because they feel it weakens men and they want to maintain male power.

Women say be more vulnerable because they value intimacy in romance and sexual encounters.

Same reason why men are obsessed with masculinity and femininity whereas more women could care less. It is a social structure that serves male interests of power over women. Men value hierarchy and structure more as it alleviates reproductive anxiety.

SeveralAcorns · 2024-01-26T12:07:16+00:00

There is a difference between being vulnerable and showing other that you are a weak and udnesirable partner. There can be strength in showing a vulnerability and there can be a weakness in showing vulnerability. Maybe look into "Models" by Mark Mansons to understand.

TheGreatBeefSupreme · 2024-01-26T15:02:02+00:00

As a general rule, I conceal my vulnerabilities and insecurities from everyone to the best of my ability. I don’t have a right to make my problems their problems. I can deal with them some other way.

no_usernameeeeeee · 2024-01-26T15:36:41+00:00

Nothing more dangerous than men who can't regulate their emotions.

toasterchild · 2024-01-26T15:55:35+00:00

They are talking about 2 different things. Do not vomit out the love feelings you have 2 weeks in, you will likely scare women away. So its good advice from men. Also if you are in a relationship and find yourself getting upset but not able to identify why exactly you need to get in touch with your emotions, so it's good advice from women.

januaryphilosopher · 2024-01-26T16:22:24+00:00

Now, when it comes to being attractive, it's likely that people who see themselves as potential competition will give you advice that sabotaged you, and people who see you as a potential partner, or at least aren't in competition with you, will give you advice that helps. Just a suggestion, especially as the red pill really seems to like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

TophetLoader · 2024-01-26T17:33:36+00:00

Men and women react to male vulnerability a little different.

Women usually push both hands towards their mouths trying not to throw up, but they always fail. Men try to arrest their primal urge to hit the souce of disgust, and they often accomplish it.

Both groups abstain from food for a few following hours.

Vivid-Ad-9870 · 2024-01-26T18:39:46+00:00

2 and also to virtue signal

flipsidetroll · 2024-01-26T19:00:36+00:00

1 and 2 and 3. And also 1 and 2 and 3. Because not everyone is the same or had the same experiences. So thinking it’s one reason only means you can only think in terms of your own experiences.

AceOfSpadesGymBro4 · 2024-01-26T19:06:16+00:00

Because men take being vulnerable to mean "emotionally throw up all over your woman". Talking about all their unresolved issues, childhood trauma, etc.

There is actually nothing with being vulnerable, but you should not be vulnerable without taking responsibility. Meaning you can "I've always been a socially anxious person, but I made a commitment to challenge that fear and to overcome it by putting myself out there" as opposed "I am anxious all the time, I fear other people, I constantly feel inferior and deal with it by hiding in my apartment, playing video games and masturbating obsessively at Asian porn".

gopher_glitz · 2024-01-26T19:10:26+00:00

Being vulnerable as a man to someone you're sleeping with is a HUGE mistake but some guys just have to learn the hard way. Great way to get out of a relationship without feeling guilty though.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-01-26T20:23:22+00:00

Men don’t tell other men to be vulnerable because they don’t value emotional vulnerability and see it as weakness. This isn’t a moral failing it’s just how boys are socialized.

Women tell men to be vulnerable because they value that in other women, the ability to connect on that emotional level. And yes it is important to express emotions when going through turmoil.

However, that doesn’t mean women necessarily know how to deal with men’s emotions or are going to react in a positive way when they are expressed. There can be a lot of unexpected things on both sides. I’ve never lost attraction to a partner because he showed vulnerability, but there have been times when he pulled away and started acting surly because he was clearly uncomfortable with it. And then got met with the accusation of “I guess I can’t show any emotions!” when I wasn’t thrilled with that behavior. I also believe sometimes women are at fault here. It just depends.

2024-01-26T20:35:03+00:00

A: 1 & 2 are correct B: 1 & 2 are wrong

The real reason for pink people is: They want it but once they get it they are turned off.

1: They can’t help but want it even though they know they will get turned off and don’t care

2: Even after wanting and asking for this and getting it, rather than choose to stay attracted, they go eww this guys a pussy and weird and needy

3: Maybe they want to know the real you to test, and if you don’t show emotion they are like omg he’s so masculine and hot because he doesn’t really have any emotions omg.

1) is urge 2) is irrational

Pink people are irrational.

It’s like saying can you get me McDonald’s pleasee I love McDonald’s and guys that get me McDonald’s, then eating it and then saying: why did you buy me McDonald’s? Are you trying to make me fat and unhealthy? Don’t you know McDonald’s is unhealthy?

Pink people’s minds and behaviours and beliefs are always in disassociation

Pathosgrim · 2024-01-26T20:38:22+00:00

Women are generally full of shit when they say be vulnerable. Whatever said should be taken with a grain of salt as they like to virtue signal to look good in the eyes of public. Feed them bread crumbs and keep recipts is the best way to approach this issue.

Intelligent-Bad-2950 · 2024-01-26T20:43:21+00:00

Women say what's "nice" and what "they would like to see"

Men tell other men what works/doesn't work

Safinated · 2024-01-26T21:26:08+00:00

I can’t speak for men

But women do it because their partner doesn’t talk to them.

And I do think they’re hypocrites for losing attraction if it they do

Puzzleheaded_Card_71 · 2024-01-26T21:36:41+00:00

It’s easy for the protected sex to tell everyone to open up and be vulnerable. That does not work for men. Unless it’s very specific places and among very close friends, opening up as a man just makes things worse.

LotBuilder · 2024-01-26T22:56:36+00:00

Men are practical and will tell you what works. Women will tell you what seems like it might work while painting them in the most positive light.

When women see true vulnerability it scares them and they lose attraction. You can only show flashes of vulnerability if someone close to you or a pet dies but even then you have 24-48 hours max.

CroomagnumTX · 2024-01-26T23:11:26+00:00

https://www.israel21c.org/women-really-dont-like-sensitive-men-study-finds/

BL4CK_AXE · 2024-01-26T23:55:47+00:00

The answer is in the wording

GloomyWalk5178 · 2024-01-27T02:13:16+00:00

Men don't tell other men not to be vulnerable. This is something chest-thumping "alphas" in the red pill community think men do. Actual men are supportive of one another, and try to help them deal with mental issues. I have worked and been friends with multiple active service personnel and combat veterans. They were all open with their emotions and quick to express concern if someone seemed "off."

Women will encourage a man to be open about his emotions, and to talk to someone when he's sad, but they do not find vulnerability attractive. Even feminist women admit this. It makes them see their partner as "weaker." This partly contributes to the belief inexperienced men have that women dislike them for being virgins. A confident virgin will have little trouble, whereas a timid, scared virgin will die on the vine.

Nihi1986 · 2024-01-27T03:30:07+00:00

Men don't have anything against it but it's kind of bad/situational advice.

I think some women like it because it makes those men more manipulable, it's a way of getting them emotionally attached, that's how they stop calling just for sex and start developing feelings. Other women probably just consider It healthier.

WilliamWyattD · 2024-01-27T04:11:01+00:00

It's all part of the historically unique adventure in egalitarianism, and distortions caused by people underestimating the power of evolved gender differences, a belief they feel facilitates egalitarianism.

The truth is there are evolved differences in personality tendencies at the population level. Moreover, gender roles and expectations tended to encourage and solidify many of these as part of creating complementarity and the polarity needed for sexual attraction.

There are ways for men to properly process and deal with their emotions that do not look the same as what women do. And that maintain gender polarity. We just need an updated masculine ideal for the 21st century, and updated masculine institutions and processes to support this ideal.

shockingly_bored · 2024-01-27T12:12:21+00:00

Because it's the invulnerable men that women want vulnerability from, because they're the ones women are attracted to and have formed attachments to. In order to cross the second threshold you must cross the preceding one first.

GetStickBugged1337 · 2024-01-27T13:56:35+00:00

For men, experience.

For women, lack of.

ssshreddder0112358 · 2024-01-27T15:10:59+00:00

1) men dont tell other men to be vulnerable because any man actively gets punished from showing vulnerability implicitly by mens competitive life and nature, and men biologically desire the feeling of invincibility and strength. vulnerability is counter to nature and no man wants to feel vulnerable. its intrinsically undesirable to men and feminine and unmasculine. men are hyper-attracted to expression of vulnerability in women though.

2) women tell men to be more vulnerable because the TV acts like its a virtue, and women are just suckers for mass psychology and say it to get brownie points with the perceived, media constructed collective consensus. its that simple. there is no thought about tricking men or anything like that, women are not even aware of what they are saying. female social hierarchy is structured around consensus, and woman will do anything to get closer to the consensus because it determines social hierarchy among women, which is why all mass psychology always targets women.

media is not telling men to be vulnerable because it doesnt work on men. but if they get women to claim they want vulnerable men, then men are going to try to be vulnerable because their strongest motivator is sexuality, and its a stronger urge than status in the male social hierarchy.

username_6916 · 2024-01-27T22:54:42+00:00

Do women tell other men to be vulnerable because of:

Social desirability bias. They say that because it's the politically correct thing to say and the alternative just sounds mean and heartless (because it kinda is). Folks don't wanna think that they're the bad guy.

Grenadier23 · 2024-01-30T03:05:09+00:00

Because women only value men for characteristics that directly benefit them. Those characteristics are the ones directly related to providing financial support or physical security.

Displays of emotional vulnerability, or any vulnerability for that matter, is the opposite of what women are attracted to, which is why they ALWAYS ridicule a man and lose attraction to him for being vulnerable.

Men understand this, and that is why they behave the way they do.

Women do not understand this, and that is why they behave the way they do.

Title	Why do men not tell other men to be vulnerable, AND, why do women tell men to be more vulnerable, en masse?
Author	sniper1905
Upvotes	25
Comments	359
Date	January 26, 2024 11:54 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1abgmtf/why_do_men_not_tell_other_men_to_be_vulnerable/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-men-not-tell-other-men-to-be-vulnerable-and.1243830 https://theredarchive.com/post/1243830

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