Does a woman's appearance really matter THAT much?

TheRedPillRipper · 2022-09-19T23:25:49+00:00

less attractive

Yet attractive enough. The minimal threshold for attraction, applies to everyone.

Godspeed and good luck!

Steakman1 · 2022-09-20T00:16:05+00:00

Better looking women have more options. But they also have a lot of the options being men who only see them for their looks and want the validation of being able to say they banged that.

edjohn88 · 2022-09-20T00:45:55+00:00

Both men and women who are less attractive are more likely to value long term security because neither has a super easy time finding a new squeeze

BrofLong · 2022-09-20T00:15:25+00:00

I don't want to go into detail about why they're less attractive, unless someone is super curious then I will.

I mean, wouldn't that be an important part of your thesis? You kind of have to define what you mean by attractiveness to claim that your less attractive friends are doing better than your more attractive friends.

But to your question, there are many potential reasons. One I don't see mentioned often however is that highly attractive people tend to make it through life with a lot of things on easy mode (including building/maintaining relationships). This means that they may not have built effective life skills or solutions because they get generally positive feedback either way.

It's extreme, but imagine being an adult playing basketball with 5 ft. rims against 8-year-olds. Do you think you'd actually learn good basketball skills from that? Now imagine instead that you're attractive and everyone wants to be your friend/date you. Anytime you make a faux pas, people excuse it. You might show a red flag that makes you and person x incompatible, but they'll look past it and 'give it a shot' anyways (until that relationship inevitably blows up due to said incompatibility). Basically, being attractive gives you a wider margin for error - it also makes feedback less useful.

throw_plushie · 2022-09-20T02:30:49+00:00

Yes it fucking does.

Better looking and thinner women get more success when it comes to attention, dates, and keeping relationships.

I’m a good example of the opposite. I can’t get anybody to stick around because of my weight (which is my fault, I know) and my average face.

baiser_vole · 2022-09-20T00:50:37+00:00

Too many men flock to hot women, making it more difficult for hot women to vet. Many of those men might not be interested in what she is really like, or put up an act around her even more to win her over.

Actually ugly women (I would say bottom 16%) are most likely screwed, and there is no way to make themselves desirable as LTR partners unless they get plastic surgery or something, since women’s value comes mostly from looks alone.

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-09-20T01:46:04+00:00

Short answer? Yes. But that doesn’t mean less attractive women (and men) cannot find love and be happy. They just have fewer options. Which is probably the reason why they have longer relationships, they are going to value and work on them more because they know it wouldn’t be easy to find someone else. It’s not necessarily a conscious thing, and doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t truly happy. It just depends. But yeah, a person has to be noticeably ugly to really not be able to find anyone because of it. Below average people pair up all the time. Nonetheless, a woman’s looks are the number one most important factor in her dating options, perhaps rivaled by social life.

cast-away-ramadi06 · 2022-09-19T23:13:13+00:00

As long as a woman isn't objectively ugly or overweight, as long as she takes decent care of her hygiene, then there are more important things to me.

I've had great and terrible sex with both smoking hot and average women, so 🤷‍♂️

A pleasant attitude, a sharp mind, and a smile will get me (and most men) anyday, so you might be seeing the effects of this with your friends. That's why some guys tell women they should smile more ... because they're pretty but they put out offputting vibes.

Head-Language-2977 · 2022-09-20T00:20:12+00:00

I think for most women, the less attractive they are, the less options for an LTR they’ll have. The difference between women and men is below-average looking women will still have some options.

The less options a person has, I think the more they’ll cherish the connections they can make (explaining why their relationships seem happier) and the less likely they’ll gamble and wait for better options to come along (explaining why they settle down sooner). This of course assumes they have a realistic perception of their dating market value.

stats135 · 2022-09-19T23:29:41+00:00

“What's the secret of a great marriage? It's not looks, nor intelligence, nor money — it's low expectations.” – Warren Buffett

Un(less)attractive women know their value. They know to set their standards low from the beginning. Since happiness is how reality compares to expectations, they tend to be very happy with their relationship with their man.

YasuotheChosenOne · 2022-09-20T00:20:25+00:00

Hot and ugly women have less viable options. Average women have the most viable options.

Significant-Chip7907 · 2022-09-20T01:20:34+00:00

I mean, JS when your more conventionally attractive and you’re looking for that plus (whatever other traits you want in a man) that can be challenging. Sometime you may default to just look over some important things just bc they’re also conveniently attractive. You also may mess with guys bc they’re hot, which if you find them hot so do other women (options). Where as a more average (less) attractive women may be more willing to over look the way someone looks and focus more on how they are being treated. Also bc looks are a little more on the back burner for less attractive people they have to actually like each other and like develop chemistry in a way that’s not just rooted in how hot each other is. Idk tho, I see both attractive and unattractive people in toxic and healthy relationships so

TLDR: lower your standards in the looks department and maybe you’ll find someone who would more interested in being in a long term relationship idk tho

Capable-Resolve-2001 · 2022-09-20T00:25:52+00:00

There’s evidence that unattractive women have more partners, more frequent sex, and more varied sex than attractive women. I was thinking about making a post about it. It’s called the Juggernaut Law.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-09-20T04:32:00+00:00

Female appearance is much more highly weighted by men as compared to other selection criteria than male appearance is to women, by this metric. However, this is not a true apples to apples comparison as women are more selective overall, and tend towards a threshold system of criteria, which is to say that whatever the relative weighting of an individual criterion, such as male appearance, a successful candidate must meet a minimum requirement or be disqualified. It is hard for men to make up for underperformance in one significant criterion, whatever the relative weighting, but averaging up with outperformance in other areas. Men also have minimum thresholds, but they are often more flexible than women's.

Here's the thing: how can one determine how important female beauty is to a woman's dating success without having some standardized metric for what 'dating success' means?

While our own appearance does not necessarily impact our objective ability to rate the appearance of others when we are asked to put the 'objective observer' hat on, it does seem to have a profound impact on what we are able to find sufficiently attractive, particularly among women.

So when you hear these stories about very attractive women with 'bad game' and such who have little success, it is likely that their appearance is still playing a major role in setting their minimum standards for men. So the woman who is a '9', but with other issues, may struggle a lot more than the well-adjusted '6', But that '9' is probably not going after the same targets as the '6': if she were, she might do better than the '6' despite her flaws in other areas. At the same time, the '9' cannot necessarily control the fact that her own level of beauty makes it impossible for her to be attracted to the types of men the '6' is going after and is sufficiently attracted to.

So one can see the key dynamic. If you measure 'dating success' by the standard of finding a mate who you are sufficiently attracted to to enjoy intimacy, and who treats you well and makes you happy, then female beauty's contribution to dating success can be more of a mixed bag. On the other hand, if looked at from an evolutionary perspective, with the metric for 'dating success' being the ability to land the highest quality man (as also judged from an evolutionary perspective), then female beauty is paramount, and far more important than anything else--including even male appearance for men.

Finally, it should be noted that dynamics can change somewhat as one drops down the appearance tiers. While what men and women find sufficiently attractive to be able to enjoy sex with does scale to one's own appearance somewhat, women in particular have floors. So as a woman gets into the lower percentile rankings of female attractiveness, she may simply be unable to find any man she could land attractive enough to want to sleep with. A lot of lower tier men get angry at lower tier women for not wanting to be with their match, but to a great extent this is not these women's fault. They just cannot find their percentile rank match attractive. Socialization can make this type of lower tier matching easier, but it is not necessarily the kind of socialization an individual woman can control herself.

Smitten_Squire · 2022-09-20T00:07:29+00:00

Average and below average girls have "juggernaut theory" working for them.

Yes, looks matter.

HTML_Novice · 2022-09-19T23:14:48+00:00

To me it does, otherwise why the fuck am I even going to notice them amongst the ocean of other women? What is going to make me want to talk to them?

I've no idea how a woman's looks affects her success in dating/sex/relationships so cannot comment.

DisasterPeace7 · 2022-09-19T23:52:22+00:00

I mean if a woman is not attractive to me then there's no relationship to be had so from that standpoint it does matter, but yes there are things that are more important but to all the fellas if your dick don't get hard just thinking about your woman, you married the wrong one haha

JustRuss79 · 2022-09-20T01:28:39+00:00

High value women can be hard to approach, and may simultaneously complain about the lack of good men and have very high standards for themselves.

Everyone wants to be with the 10, but nobody wants to be the lower value person in the relationship. Makes you insecure no matter what you say.

If she's above an 8/10, she can only really date 9 and 10's long term.

Unless she's hiding some emotional baggage or disorders.

RedPill115 · 2022-09-20T02:12:05+00:00

It's a paradox of choice issue.

"Autonomy and freedom of choice are critical to our well being, and choice is critical to freedom and autonomy. Nonetheless, though modern Americans have more choice than any group of people ever has before, and thus, presumably, more freedom and autonomy, we don't seem to be benefiting from it psychologically".

I've said before that dating apps for long term relationships seem to work the best for people who aren't very attractive.

P.S. If your goal is sleeping with many people then being better looking is definitely needed. If your goal is to get into a secure low demand relationship you might be better of being less good looking.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-09-20T02:20:26+00:00

You're not ugly, you're poor.

Fun_Push7168 · 2022-09-20T02:26:24+00:00

Better looking women attract men with options. Ugly women get in relationships with ugly men and those men will have very few chances other than her.

HobbitShaker88 · 2022-09-20T03:09:11+00:00

Depending on your social circle size, its likely not a large enough sample size to really draw conclusions. Its anecdotal. I made statements like this all the time (not about looks, but other sweeping generalizations) in my early to mid 20s but the type of people I was exposed to was not very wide and my social circle, looking back, was not big enough to confidently say such things.

For example, I use to say that only women were very catty and petty in friendships and that men made better friends because they werent. And guess what... I really believed it. I did experience this. All of my male friends at the time were naturally way better friends than my female friends- they were less catty and petty. It was so much more effortless to be friends with those men. But, now that Im older and have moved around and been exposed to many more people and types of people, made many more friendships, I dont agree with that statement.* Just the friends I had in my hometown at that time, contained men that happened to be better friends. They werent the best sample size.*

Also attractiveness is subjective. You may find them more attractive but others may not.

WhiteKnightPilled · 2022-09-20T03:58:19+00:00

I've also noticed the average looking women tend to have longer and healthier relationships.

The hottest women suffer from too many options. They get picky and want the best of everything. She probably rejected the guys who were offering her long-term commitment, holding out for better. Real humans can't meet that bar, so she ends up falling for the fantasy world projected by a lying narcissist or pumped and dumped by guys out of her league (rich, celebrities).

Financial_Leave4411 · 2022-09-20T01:50:56+00:00

Men definitely look for hot chicks and either ignore or treat women who are average or ugly badly. That is why there are issues with being the “ugly friend” in a group as well as spiteful games men play like pull the pig.

urbangoth · 2022-09-20T00:21:27+00:00

I don't think it matters is she's dating "in her league" or below. Some people also think their appearance can compensate for a shit or lack of personality, and it usually can't. Some people also have low self esteem and don't think they deserve better or good things. Both men and women can be like that.

I'm seen both hot and "ugly" women have successful, long relationships. The ones who seem to struggle the most or have bad relationships tend to have poor self esteem or are focusing too hard on specific traits and not the whole package.

I have one friend who's not very bright, and she stayed with a ripped (but ugly in the face) guy who treated her poorly. She left recently.

I know another who is with a guy significantly less attractive than her (especially by conventional standards) who mistreats her, and she allows it because she doesn't view herself highly and because she is scared of getting a stable job; he pays for basically everything.

Both women are about the same height and build, and heavily prioritized one factor over all others and got a bad deal; they're unhappy as a result. Neither are unattractive, they're both average at least, though I'd say maybe 6/10 for one.

Most people are not going to get their dream partner. It's rare. You have to find them and be desirable to them. At that point the options are either tap out or reexamine what you're after and why you were/may not be able to get it.

infinitofluxo · 2022-09-20T00:52:50+00:00

Well, the guy that is in a relationship with the woman must think she is attractive or think he couldn't do better and is desperate for a partner.

That does not mean that the prettiest one will be more lucky, the one that is attractive enough for the guy and is also fun, sexy and is better in bed with him than the hotter one might take him.

bill0124 · 2022-09-20T02:27:04+00:00

Yes, absolutely.

That being said, just because it matters, doesn't mean that it's easier. More attractive women will have more men chasing them. Having more men chasing you mesns you have to spend more time sorting through them all. This also means that there is a higher chance of unwittingly picking a dirt bag who's good at hiding his true nature.

So, in some ways, a moderately attractive woman might have it easier than a truly beautiful woman. But it depends on if the moderate girl is alright having a normal relationship with an average dude.

On the other hand, the upper echelon (subjective, but I mean wealth, looks, prestige, etc) of men are much more accessible to the most attractive women. If an average girl wants to break into that, she'll have a lot more trouble doing that.

Liberated_Asexual · 2022-09-20T02:50:58+00:00

Very ironic you're a vindicta user and you're asking this lol. Most women meet the minimum attractiveness threshold as long as they're not fat and don't fuck up their hair somehow.

Some of the most attractive women can also be some of the most stuck up bitches with the princess syndrome to a T.

8 w/ a good personality > 10 who's a cunt

Nihi1986 · 2022-09-20T03:07:23+00:00

Yes, sorry but it matters a lot... The way attraction works for men is mainly based on looks. Personality matters too, a lot, but mostly to keep the relationship, perhaps even to start it but that's a bit less common.

What you will see are plenty of men dating a girl they don't truly like just for the sake of dating someone and usually because the girl made it easy for the guy.

You will also see plenty of women dating not very handsome guys or assholes, but that's a different story...

Anyway, more important than looks or personality is 'luck'. Be in the right place and the right moment and you may end up dating someone you thought to be out of your league, though more than luck it's just being socially active.

Willow-girl · 2022-09-20T04:57:23+00:00

I guess I must be in kind of a sweet spot that I'm just easy enough on the eyes that men are down with marrying me, without being attractive enough to scare them off at the outset, lol.

Ludens0 · 2022-09-20T08:29:04+00:00

Fuck beauty.

I'm going with someone with no hard mental problems, no drama and that treat me well 1 billion times over a victoria's secret model that is fucking crazy.

tinasnow-poty · 2022-09-20T09:13:57+00:00

They do in terms of initial attraction, but they don’t automatically guarantee better relationships. I lost a bunch of weight a while ago and I thought being skinnier would mean boys would treat me better. Jokes on me, there were just more boys who wanted the opportunity to play me 😝

NidaleesMVP · 2022-09-20T09:31:51+00:00

Does a woman's appearance really matter THAT much?

I'm a guy, and my answer is a hard no.

Psybur · 2022-09-21T15:59:02+00:00

Yes, it matters that much, but mostly you just have to not be fat, which isn't hard if you don't shovel food into your face faster than you burn it off.

JumboJetz · 2022-09-22T03:09:26+00:00

Less attractive women are willing to date less attractive men. And less attractive men are more willing to commit to women.

So it’s very easy to see why unattractive women are able to settle down. You too can settle down if you lower your physical standards for men.

cuteTroublexo · 2022-09-20T02:49:52+00:00

I swear for us hot women, men don't wanna marry us or we don't get into a good LTR til we're in our 30's. I've just seen time and time again, these hot older people finding eachother after being divorced and going through the ringer.

I'm from a small town so when a guy gets with me, or tries to, it's a flex. They're not really valuing me like that. Sad, but true. Men on dating apps be like "I'd love to have a hot emo chick on my arm out somewhere" or quite simply they just wanna fuck.

But all these married people.. I swear I see some fine ass men with 4-6 rated women. Their wife is fat af, or just very plain looking. These men look like they could do better. I hope their sex lives are good at least.

NotRyanPoles · 2022-09-19T23:26:10+00:00

That's because generally less attractive women have lower standards than attractive women.

Edit:

Also to answer the title question, yes a woman's looks does matter. The higher status/looks of a man you are going after the more it's going to matter, but just like women, the lower the looks, the lower their standards will be. Looks are important for men, but not to the degree of a mans looks matters to women. Men in general are willing to date below their looksmatch while women in general won't date their looksmatch.

staggerlee718 · 2022-09-20T00:55:13+00:00

Beauty is skin deep, but being a bitch and a psycho is forever.

INFPSoloDuh · 2022-09-20T02:16:33+00:00

So you took the point that your less attractive friends being in long term relationships might mean that looks aren't that attractive?

WHAT? That's really a question you have? If you're a woman I am truly stunned that this is the thought.

Attractive, "successful" women want to date and believe they deserve the VERY small percentage of high earning, attractive men.

These men pick from a large pool.

That's one of the biggest reasons.

k_aevitas · 2022-09-20T02:51:15+00:00

You are absolutely correct. People will deny this to the grave but it's true. I've had no issues turning heads, the opposite sex throw themselves at my feet ,put me up at a pedestal to unreachable standards but have had trainwreck relationships in my life. I've only had one partner in my life like over 10 years ago and I can't even remember what it's like to have a partner whatsoever at this point. Most of the people who I've attracted were absolute freaks, narcissists, those who just wanted me for my body and they never got to like me for who I am. Everytime when I had fallen in love, I was rejected because they only liked the surface. It's not so much about looks, it's entirely about someone's inner sense of worth, vibration, energy and personality. No matter how amazing someone looks, if their inner world is broken from trauma and they have no concept of being in a healthy relationship, they won't be able to get into one it's truly got nothing to do with looks. Looks will capture eyes, not hearts.

I've known stunningly beautiful men and women who were cheated on, discarded, horribly abused to the point of lifelong severe trauma that you can't even imagine, and you'd think they have the world handed to them just for what they look like. No.

My friend in college was involved with one of the most beautiful girls I've ever seen in my life. Men were intimidated by her beauty but also threatened by it. Despite being breathtakingly beautiful, she was getting beaten up by her bf and her goal in life was to be a stripper.

It doesn't even have to go to that level. I used to have a friend who looked quite pretty, mix between Monica Bellucci and lily collins and she was chronically single with guys not approaching her . It wasn't just for her being pretty, she just had zero flirting game and her body language showed she didn't have any interest. She would talk to guys like you'd talk to the mailman or a grocery store clerk, I would even be turned off from that kind of lack of sexual energy even if I was into her that way.

I also knew very good looking men. 6.2 tall, great body, face etc but were absolute Trainwrecks and only attracted screwed up women because they were also damaged themselves.

Looks don't matter as much when it comes to securing LONG term relationships. Personality and finding compatible partners is what matters. I've legit seen male to female transgender amputee get a loving boyfriend and a woman whose skin was literally rotting to find a handsome husband. It seems staged but it's not. It blows peoples minds that this happens but I've seen it countless times in my life. I've seen the most ugliest hideous people get partners while beautiful people remain single and lonely.

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alphasupremacy5555 · 2022-09-20T00:22:33+00:00

Most men don't want ugly, bony and fat women. It really depends on what a particular man really wants. Looks really matter that much when it comes to sex only relationships. When it comes to serious looks are a close second to compatibility. Looks and figure can fade but how soon and how hard a woman hits the wall depends on her lifestyle and how well she is or isn't taking care of herself.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-09-20T01:12:58+00:00

It is the #1 factor in determining the level of man a woman can get. So yes.

That doesn't mean less attractive woman can't be successful in dating.

jackthekingofpigs · 2022-09-20T01:21:22+00:00

Maybe that person is not approachable?

Teflon08191 · 2022-09-20T01:28:22+00:00

If she, as many so often do, allows it to be her only redeeming quality then...yes.

Maquiaveh · 2022-09-20T02:22:18+00:00

Yes it does, but also it depends. They might be smart, kind, loyal, femenine, not a headache, that adds a lot

Also look at who they are dating. Maybe they aren:'t so picky themselves and that's why they can find good partners, good, honest men, in many metrics maybe better than chads, but that are not chads

Stripotle_Grill · 2022-09-20T02:43:22+00:00

You are saying that success is finding long term relationship. that's not a visual attribute. If you a pretty girl attracts a pretty boy, then there's an argument for and against. but pretty girls gets it harder to find long term relationships could stem from a basket of factors.

mazxmazx1 · 2022-09-20T03:04:38+00:00

andyblaze6 · 2022-09-20T04:05:55+00:00

No but a man's definitely does

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2022-09-20T06:10:25+00:00

Kind of, but not really. they have to be attractive to me (which isn't a high bar to match), but other than that being hotter just means more attention.

Neptune-Jr · 2022-09-20T08:57:16+00:00

Men aren't too picky like we keep saying I'mnot sure why this is a surprise that women don't have to be super models to lock down a good man.

M_LaSalle · 2022-09-20T09:03:07+00:00

Because in my social circle, I haven't really noticed much of a pattern between a woman's dating success and her looks.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this. A part of me wants to say that OP must know some damned ugly women. Ugliness, especially in the form of fat and poor grooming, is now nearly universal among American women, and no matter how revolting a woman is, there will almost certainly be a man willing to fuck her because here just isn't anything else. It would be interesting to return say, half of American women to the average BMI of American women circa 1978 and see if there was an observable difference in dating success among the two groups.

America in 2022 is not a normal place and observations about it may simply not apply to any place that is still normal. People living in a lunatic asylum likely cannot imagine, after a certain point, what normal is.

Laytheblameonluck · 2022-09-20T10:51:03+00:00

Correct, it doesn't matter that much.

NoResponse6131 · 2022-09-20T12:55:16+00:00

True. because less attractive people settle for the first option they get.

capitan_cruiser · 2022-09-20T13:24:05+00:00

Attractive is general word, I could find any woman attractive as long as she has pretty teeth but if her teeth aren’t I’m probably not going to find myself attracted to her

Ohmaygahh · 2022-09-20T13:56:17+00:00

Um, that's the point?

YourAverageTurkGuy · 2022-09-20T15:39:27+00:00

This might vary from person to person but for me, attractivenes is like a pre-condition. I need to be somewhat attracted to the person I'm with on a physical level and then my actual filter is based on personality and behaviour. I would rather have a 5.5-6/10 with a compatible personality than a 9-10/10 with incompatible personality.

returning_op2 · 2022-09-20T16:25:28+00:00

I think having fewer options makes you settle sooner.

If you are in any way attractive and use some sort of social media, you are basically spoiled for choice as a woman. This will always lead to the thought that you could do better, there might be a totally fine, attractive, successful and handsome guy in your social circle - but he won't get a chance because the more attractive, successful and handsome guy DMed you to fly you in for a party weekend at the beach. And even if you don't take it, it inflates the perceived smv of yourself.

Btw I'm not saying that doesn't happen to men. It does, but to a lesser degree.

darkvalleys · 2022-09-20T16:28:52+00:00

It depends on the dude, dude

Katatonicsnake · 2022-09-20T16:40:35+00:00

Not in dating. But in every other aspect in life, yes.

Think_History_5682 · 2022-09-20T23:08:25+00:00

Well her size and body shape will be a big factor in hthe quantity and quality y of options she has

Her face matters less

The bottom line is a woman can get men pretty easy regardless of what you look like how good you look affects quality and quantity of men

It does not guarantee you the coveted LTR though. Thats a vetting thing

Quiet-Lie-219 · 2022-09-21T07:15:11+00:00

Probably because those friends don’t have men approaching them just for sex, or not as many, and thus have less bullshit to weed through.

dottywine · 2022-09-21T21:29:02+00:00

As a woman the more attractive you are, the more BS suitors you have to sort through.

Title	Does a woman's appearance really matter THAT much?
Author	vindictaisracist123
Upvotes	99
Comments	273
Date	September 19, 2022 11:10 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/xirvr7/does_a_womans_appearance_really_matter_that_much/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-a-womans-appearance-really-matter-that-much.1132412 https://theredarchive.com/post/1132412

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