Women's selection criterion have changed, but men have remained largely the same

MilkyWayDot · 2023-03-17T16:49:56+00:00

For 1000s of years, women selected men for their status and power. For being the protector and provider. Now, these are the bare minimum in selecting men for...

[–]Dependent-Tomato-534 22 points23 points24 points 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]InternalHungry8723 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Free_Office_4400 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dependent-Tomato-534 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

I think you have a very glaring problem right there with your mathematics lol. Let’s say you go to a car lot , there are 10 cars there but you only go home with one. The life of a modern woman is this, the parking lot is everywhere they go.. in real life and in their phones via social media. They are getting messages/compliments/pickup lines anywhere any time any place. That’s called having choice. As a man you may find it hard to comprehend because only a very small % of men ever enjoy that level of attention while majority of women will get that these days.

When you have that much attention, your sense of self worth skyrockets and your expectations also rise. And when you have so many options, you have the luxury to pick whatever you want. It really is as simple as that

In contrast, men experience life very differently. They have to be the car at the lot and the salesman trying to sell themselves. Men often have to be competitive yet aren’t the ones doing the picking, they’re the ones making the proposals and hoping they’re the one. This doesn’t apply to the upper echelon of men ofcourse who experience life similar to how majority of women do ; difference being that women are born with it and men earn it (plus have to get genetically lucky for it and/or inherit)

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Actually, I agree on much of what you said, but still there's a caveat. Let's go back to my math 🤣

We need to start with the fact that, statistically speaking, there are as many men as there are women. Let's simplify it by saying we have 100 men and 100 women in the dating pool.

Theoretically there's enough mates to either gender, but in reality most women select the same small percentage of men. If we say 80% of women selects the same 20% of men, which is supported by data from dating apps, in our example this translates to 80 different women select the same 20 men.

Since each man has access to 4 women at the same time, we have three scenarios: 1- these 20 men form long-term relationships with 20 women, leaving 60 women with no actual choice, 2- these 20 men form short-term relationship with the 80 women st the same time. If women want casual sex and not a meaningful relationship, this is good for women and for the 20 men, and 3- some of these men start a long-term relationship but then cheat because they have the options and temptation.

I think non of these options are desirable for women, and I can hear women frustration of this all over the dating subreddits. So, yes women have more options, it seems, but these are the same few men who are also options for the majority of women.

We conclude the proof 🤓

[–]Dependent-Tomato-534 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I’m not sure why you insist on such simple math, you should try studying statistics. I think you will enjoy it, but I guess you can be happy being blissfully ignorant too.

You’re at this point just regurgitating the same argument all social media influencers like Tate have spoken. But you forget about the fact that the other 80% of men are also in the ranking and don’t have as much power of choice as the top 20%. Top 50% of men settle for bottom 30% of women all the time , and have done so historically. Women settle too but in most cases they’re punching while men are settling as far as it comes to objective parameters. Ofcourse love relationships are a real thing and hasn’t been factored in at all to any of these equations.

I have nothing to gain from pointing out further of your flaws but my recommendation stands as a fellow nerd

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dependent-Tomato-534 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]luroot 93 points94 points95 points 3 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]EndHltsNo Pill/Respect for reality (Male) 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And they got it when they could...but it was just a lot harder under very rigid, patriarchal systems that arranged marriages or forced them to marry before sex, etc...

As with most feminist drivel, this is ahistorical.

Arranged marriages were mostly political or for the accrual of capital or the entrance into a royal or capital owning family. This means it was mostly an action of the upper classes.

Sex before marriage has been common for most of history, but religion has had a feature of no sex before marriage for a large swath of recorded history as well. Men also abided by this rule in religion.

None of that was natural, though...but very restrictive social structures.

None of this shit we call society is "natural" dude. We literally get around by driving metal boxes where 3-16 miniature explosions happen inside a smaller metal box, which through an bunch of spikey metal wheels makes the rubber wheels turn.

[–]staring_right_at_it1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Lucky-Raspberry-3821 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One aspect overlooked is the Operational Sex Ratio, which denotes the local ratio of fertilizable females to sexually active males at any given time. An OSR of 1.0 would correspond to a perfect balance of reproductively available males and females, whereas 1.99 would be a total males-biased imbalance. Paradoxically, as the OSR increases, so do the societal propensity towards a combination of two practices – polygyny and concubinage – and the increase in social inequality (explanation.)

this study concluded with: "These results suggest considerable flexibility of mating system structure within species, which can be predicted by OSR and likely results in variation in the strength of sexual selection."

After shifting through the data for western countries, it appears that a considerable deficit of fertile women is occurring in the (15-24) and (25-54) age brackets, perhaps as a result of of asymmetrical mass-immigration policies favoring young single males. A solution to this would be to highly prioritize female applicants for immigration and to halve or even stop the intake of young males.

Edit: Typo (expect -> aspect)

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThorLivesSkeptical Purple Pill Man -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

Most women had choices about who they married and pre marital sex wasn't that uncommon either (obviously it was much more dangerous than today for several reasons). While women were not uncommonly "traded" as property this was not the majority of women.

I agree with this. I don't believe that women were traded as property like people like to say - and the narrative is often advanced by feminists as a way to increase support for feminism (e.g. "see what life was like before feminism; you need to support it, too"). There was an interesting podcast on Freakonomics a few months ago which talked about dating in the 1800s among the elite in England. Families would bring there families together in a giant multi-week party where the elite sons and daughters could meet each other. The parents didn't control who they dated or married, but the parents wanted their upper-class daughters to marry similarly upper-class sons. That was the purpose of the yearly parties. Note that parents weren't selling their daughters. I would expect that the upper classes would exercise the most control over their daughters, since they wanted them to marry other upper class men, whereas I would expect the middle or lower classes to exercise even less control over their daughters marriages. I'd expect daughters of the king to have the least control over their marriages, since this was essential to alliances.

[–]Backas_Before_Work 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Irys-likethe-Eye 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Andre27Purple Pill Man -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The only women actually traded as property were actual slaves and royalty, somewhat also higher nobility. Lower level nobility, middle classes, peasantry and even serf women were not traded, there was literally no incentive or reason to do so. And as for royalty and slaves, it's not like the men had any more choice in those classes lol. Not to mention the fact that it wasn't even really frowned upon for royal women to keep lovers, it was expected even, they were simply supposed to avoid scandal while doing so.

Anyone in the middle of the pack chose mostly for themselves, certainly their families would chime in but for the most part they themselves still had a lot of choice.

Also, as for women not having rights or power in general back then? Also blatantly a false narrative spun by feminists. Women didnt have power because the power was the family, the household as a unit. Within it they had just as much power as their husband, not only did they exercise a lot of soft power but it is not even as if their husband would simply make choices without consulting his wife seeing as she would be a contributing member of the household and also knowledgable on their life and situation.

[–]Irys-likethe-Eye 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh no, not the feminists and their blatant false narratives that draw from literal historical documentation that was almost empirically and exclusively recorded by men.

The idea that every sphere of society didn't have it's own imperative to manage the following generation is simply obtuse. Families that had any manner of skill set absolutely wanted to control whom their children married. Lower nobles did not want their daughter to marry a wastrel who squandered his families wealth unless he was a step or two above them in social strata, meaning their grandchildren and by default themselves by association would move up that ladder. The Baker, Cooper, butcher, or merchant etc, was definitely keen to make sure they weren't compromising what integrity their family had in the community by allowing their daughter to choose their own husband without their fathers approval. The peasants could not justify marriage exclusively for love as their livelihood was contingent on the usefulness of their childrens spouses and would always be cognizant of any possibility of betterment. You want to marry your daughter to the butcher or baker because it would have the opportunity of benefitting your entire family. So if the old man who ran the mill took a fancy to your daughter you would be very prone to agree to his offer whether she liked the idea or not because he ran the mill and it was expensive to process your grain into the flour that made the bread that was your main source of food.

This is all very easy to research.

[–]Andre27Purple Pill Man -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Obviously their fathers (and mothers) would have a say in who they married, and they should have, thats intelligent and good, especially when you are a family unit and not atomized individuals. But that doesn't mean that the father alone just chose some man and everyone else had to go along with it with no say in the matter.

The people getting married also had a say in who they wanted to marry, their parents would simply sign off on it because yeah, it's not a great idea to marry some wastrel because you love them oh so much. That doesn't mean that the father went and found the richest old fart around and just forced his daughter to marry him, in fact that wouldnt even make any sense seeing as you married your daughter to someone who could take care of them in the long run, how is some geriatric who will die in 10 years going to take care of your daughter in the long run? It wouldnt make any sense for her to be married to someone who will end up leaving her a widow at 30.

No, the daughters and sons would mingle around their own age group or perhaps a bit older men say a 20 year old woman marrying a 30 year old man, although frankly I don't think that was very common in the lower and middle classes. Then they would find someone respectable who their families would be happy with. The fact that parents have a say in their childrens choices doesn't mean children had no choice.

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Free_Office_4400 -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Irys-likethe-Eye 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Free_Office_4400 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Irys-likethe-Eye 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Free_Office_4400 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Adultthrowaway69420 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Irys-likethe-Eye 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Adultthrowaway694201 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Andre27Purple Pill Man -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KayRay1994 35 points36 points37 points 3 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

[–]KayRay1994 22 points23 points24 points 3 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluemooncookiedough 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago* (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]KayRay1994 17 points18 points19 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kobe_curry24 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lovelythecovePurple Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KayRay1994 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KayRay1994 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluemooncookiedough 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

None of these sound too crazy though? Women also have all those things. And if they don't then you should raise your own standards. Instead of advocating for people to settle in unhappiness we should encourage everyone to to find partners that want to go grow with them. Also in my experience attractiveness usually directly relates to effort (skin care, working out, style, haircut, grooming)

I understand how difficult socialization can be when you have trauma and other barriers. But dating is a social activity so it will take social skills. There is no set path a human has to follow so people are going to only pick a partner that wants to walk the same path with them.

If you don't have a lot of drive to do and be better that's okay but what are you offering someone as a partner then? Most people I have met don't want to be stagnant and want to keep learning and growing. There is nothing wrong with not being a relationship person but we need to make it more commonly accepted to not have them when you don't have the tools.

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I put the effort to take care of myself. I shower everyday. I put clean clothes ever day. I have a hair cut every week. I shave my beard every other day ... etc. But what I don't have control over is my facial features. I'm 5"9 do height is mot a problem. I'm also lean, which isn't a problem.

I'm also a little introvert and shy and socially awkward. But you see, just one or two flaws can ruin your whole dating, even if you are good in many other aspects. You must be many things at once. All of them. And I'm not sure if this is picked up on on my dating profile. But I'm sure if I was extremely hot, none of this would matter, at least for being selected. I've come to the conclusion everything good you are is a 0 unless you're attractive which is the 1. The 0s have no value in themselves, but when placed with the 1, they increase your value.

I'm not advocating for people to settle for unhappiness, but I do think women judge men harsly before they even know them. But by all means, if women are happy, good. My hypothesis is that in 50 years there will a collapse in civilization because of the decrease in birth rate. Not that I use this to encourage for lowering standards in relationships, but I think many people are unhappy from both genders that they prefer to stay single and not having children

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

And if you think these requirements are not crazy, then I'd say you don't know men. Men haven't evolved to be funny and play music. We evolved to protect our group and provide to our children when life was dangerous and tough, which was the majority of homo sapiens existence over 10 of 1000s of years. If it wasn't for men, women and children wouldn't have survived, and now women say we don't need men when life got easy. Women selected men to survive and to provide for their children, because women were weak to go out of camps for days at a time and hunt the big game. Women became oppressed after civilization for reasons related to land and properties, but it wasn't like this in prehistoric times, I think.

Now survival had become less of an issue, women have started to be picky, and extremely so . Now being responsible, protecting and provider are not enough. I'm not saying not to be interesting and somewhat funny because life is easier now, but still not enough. So I always go back to the genes and looks, and then women say these men are the ones who put the effort. But the reality good looking men don't need much care to take of. They're naturally attractive. Women go for that hoping to find long-term relationship, and often they don't, because these few men have access to all women.

[–]lovelythecovePurple Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Flashy-Country-8001 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Flashy-Country-8001 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]lovelythecovePurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

You’re saying these things are somehow impossible for men, yet… also women do all these things now?? And women had less time to adjust to having full lives than men did (who have always had the option of having full lives.)

Women can somehow have careers and keep their homes and have flourishing friendships and hobbies and interests. They can become confident and go hiking while still working full time and having a dog and seeing their family once a week and their girlfriends a couple times a week and going to therapy every other week and keeping their hair appointments once every 6 weeks and going to their dental cleaning every 6 months and and and…

I haven’t even gotten into life with children, which somehow most women manage just fine while working careers and maintaining all that other stuff as well.

Why is this too much for men, exactly?

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]lovelythecovePurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] [score hidden] 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]lovelythecove1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]No-Victory-9096 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] [score hidden] 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KayRay1994 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]axob_artist 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]eastern_rising1890 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]KayRay1994 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]eastern_rising1890 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]tjr83hehe7e 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]KayRay1994 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]tjr83hehe7e 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]plplokokplok 55 points56 points57 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

My guy, you basically just said the status quo changed so now women desire a man with a personality and kindness. That's probably been their desire since the dawn of time but men largely oppressed women socially in the past across multiple nations.

I will say that marriage is much less transactional now than it used to be. I believe most people say marriage is for love now than for gains, whether social, financial, power, or otherwise. I think the root of your complaint is that men who, historically, would've had an easier time securing a wife as a transaction, must now attempt to win a wife only by love. And some people just suck and will have a harder time finding that love.

I would echo another commenter that mentioned they did a deep introspective dive into their heart and mind and made changes where needed. You're not perfect. In fact you probably suck like most humans. The key to dating success is learning how you suck and then trying to suck less. Some have a lot more work to do in this respect than others. Some people suck because of abuse or oppression forced on them when they were young - but the impetus is still on them to work through it and suck less.

[–]alby333 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluemooncookiedough 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]punapearebane 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]alchemist10000 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kobe_curry24 -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link

[–]NoInjury1499Traditionalist -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee 14 points15 points16 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ridan_1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]biggestuzifaneaDEEZ Pilled 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]Noah__Webster 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

0.37% of men in the USA between the ages of 20 and 40 are 6 feet+ tall, make 6 figures, and are unmarried. It seems like about 16% of men have a 6 inch or larger penis. So less than a tenth of a percent of the population meet the rule of sixes, unless there is a massive correlation between any of the other factors and penis size.

Edit: to elaborate, I'm not really denying that attractive, successful mean don't have issues. I don't even really know what point I'm making lol. I stumbled on this sub in /r/all, and the stats nerd in me had to point this out lol. I guess the only point I would theoretically be making is that if "the rule of sixes" is the standard for a man, it is a very high standard. A "rule of six" man is statistically a massive outlier. I don't think it's reasonable for anyone, man or woman, to assume that a person like that is remotely near the average and base any assumptions around that. If you think you need to meet that standard as a man, or if you require that standard as a woman, you're delusional.

[–]Kobe_curry24 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]biggestuzifaneaDEEZ Pilled 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwinsilaway 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ridan_1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]biggestuzifaneaDEEZ Pilled 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]iamsobasic 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]biggestuzifaneaDEEZ Pilled 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]iamsobasic 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Advencik -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]biggestuzifaneaDEEZ Pilled 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]muhname 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]REDaissance_ManRed Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Advencik 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]biggestuzifaneaDEEZ Pilled 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]biggestuzifaneaDEEZ Pilled 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

There is a price for everything and they will have to pay it eventually if they want something longterm. The ‘hard work’ is what holds people together as it being a mutual investment. Sometimes fwb turn into real relationships but it’s not promised. If the guy is given physical access before he has ‘earned it’ there is always the potential that he didn’t actually have what it takes and never will...otherwise, why was he rejected?

How it looks so far is it all depends on who rejected who and why. With fwb, one of them isn’t seeing longterm potential right away or at least isn’t in the right headspace for it. Seems like men are more likely to choose fwb based on appearance and test compatibility and that means the woman was rejected for longterm upfront. Woman are more likely to choose fwb because they rejected the man for anything serious due to personality rather than appearance. If a woman rejects the man for longterm upfront that is less likely to change because it is probably some kind of inherent turnoff which is incompatible. So it depends on who is the ‘friendzoned’ in this case

Obviously this would all need to be tested in the field. I do not believe fwb dynamics can be applied to online relationships because too much of that dynamic is missing without being in person

If it’s not the right time for either partner or they just have cold feet then it was more likely circumstantial that they rejected the other person, and in that case it has a better shot at working longterm

Edit: Obviously this won’t apply to everyone, as some women are rejected because the partner is more attractive or the women are fed up with relationships and might choose fwb based on looks or money or anything else. The point is there is no set power structure. A physically attractive guy is defined by more than that. If he has emotional intelligence vs not comes into play. Without the intelligence he looks like a poor choice for longterm and then the woman needs to decide if she wants a short-term thing or not

And some men may be so lonely that they choose women for fwb even though they don’t have much physical attraction at all. Those things can change: she worksout. He can change: gains EQ. Anything can change but the guy needs to choose in that case if he wants short-term thing or not.

So what happens if that both men and women usually end up with lower quality partners for fwb unless it was just a special case thing

[–]frailwaveson86 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

no but then again I’m not a guy so it’s not my problem.

I tried to give a guy The Manual: What Women Want and How to Give It to Them, without reading it myself in hopes he could trick me into something but apparently I am either too redpilled or COVID just REALLY REALLY REALLY fucked up all dynamics. We had lots of marriage talk over the covid years but were never able to come to a conclusion. I think in the end he just decided to start paying for friends (and likely women)...which thought was pathetic but tbh I don’t see any other way now. just back to the good ol’ days seems like the only solution

Edit: Want to note that all those talks were long distance due to covid. & I just don’t really believe in LDR...never really have. If you’re competitive you can find partners in your own zipcode (as long as there is a good selection) but covid does make things weird...and lack of good selection leads to OLD imo Edit2: probably should add for clarification to my previous comment: this guy was first rejected in person and categorized as ‘fwb material’ then moved long distance. the fwb dynamic was never initiated.(and obvs this is pretty much all anecdotal)

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jesseowens1233 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Safinated 28 points29 points30 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]That__ESTPurple Pill Woman 18 points19 points20 points 3 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]That__ESTPurple Pill Woman 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Luciansleep5’6 pretty boy [score hidden] 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]punapearebane 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]That__ESTPurple Pill Woman 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Advencik -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]That__ESTPurple Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Brook_ETH -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Brook_ETH -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]That__ESTPurple Pill Woman 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I've talked before about my friend who married her One and Only. And I'd say the two of them have a pretty decent marriage with some miscommunication here and there, but I think that they have a loving and non abusive or manipulative union. Now, onto the problem: when you haven't experienced much pain, the smallest thing can legitimately be "the worst pain you've ever felt". So when they have a miscommunication, or he's short with her when she feels like she wishes he was more caring...you know, problems that could literally happen in any relationship....there have been times that she has been ready to throw in the towel because to her it's a massive problem. Because she's in a marriage with nearly no problems and has never had another relationship to compare it to. Meanwhile I'm High N woman having these very similar marital problems and I know that it could be a hell of a lot worse so I'm counting my blessings.

I've literally sat her down and looked her straight in the eye and told her that she just has to trust me that this is a decent and very resolvable situation. That if she leaves this man, he will be snapped up quick and that the world isn't filled with men who are like her husband....just somehow better.

So yeah, unfortunately I get it.

[–]Brook_ETH 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I think it's nice of you to be there for your friend. Your an amazing friend.

I think men should strike a balance between their masculine and feminine side with their masculinity coming first. We should highly embrace positive masculine behaviors. I am thriving to be a high quality guy and learning how and when to display emotions to a women and be more caring as well.

In regards to marriage, I think we should bring more awareness and realism to marriage for men perspective and women perspective in general. Especially when it comes to conflict resolution and de-escalation which is an essential skill for men in a relationship with a women. Currently They have to seek this knowledge out and equip themselves, I would love a culture to be there instead .Check this vidoe out and you'll get what I mean

Women feel alot more stressed in the marriage than men if they are the only ones maintaining it.

Studies have shown this show that I came across this information fueled by curiosity in why after women getting married they have less sex which I never want happen to me lol. But anyways it have has taught me alot. Here is the video.

We are in terrible in of a positive masculine culture.

[–]That__ESTPurple Pill Woman 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Andre27Purple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]That__ESTPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Doing genealogy work, I notice that people just go through a lot less hardship in general. And I imagine that because things are so relatively easy, especially in The West, things can seem worse than they are.

This might be controversial, but I'll share it: A while back, a woman from the surviving infidelity sub hit my DMs to talk to me privately about her situation. She considered that she had an amazing marriage, but her husband recently broke down and confessed that while he had essentially been deployed for a few months, he had a short lived fling with a woman on location. It was eating him up, he felt terrible about it. It was all over bad. And the woman wanted to know what my advice was. Well I'm am unorthodox person, but I did handle her gently. What struck me though, was she didn't realize that from my perspective, what she was reason upset about was that her love story with her husband was no longer "perfect". It had this gap in it. And I told her that yes it had this gap in it, but it was obvious that this guy was beating himself the fuck up about it and willing to go the extra mile to make it up to her. I'm seriously like....your love story could be better if you saw it from my perspective, which is that your dudes fidelity was tested, he fucked up, and then he chose you. If you leave this dude, he will likely be an amazing husband to someone else. And you will have a coin toss with your next partner. And yes I know people say that there are ways to lessen the risk of being cheated on, but there is at all times a non zero risk of being cheated on. You didn't think your current husband would step out and he did.

I honestly hope the woman chose to stay married to that dude and that they have a stronger marriage now because of it. And no, not every cheater deserves a second chance. But not every [insert bad marriage behavior] doer deserves another change either and I tend to treat infidelity as just another LTR problem that absolutely can be resolved if both parties are willing to resolve it.

And another thing I'm pondering is this: what's with all of the talk about risk factors of being cheated on and not that much talk about the risk factors of you yourself being a cheater?

[–]Andre27Purple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]That__ESTPurple Pill Woman -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I can't take a hard line against it for a few reasons. One is I have no idea what would be going on in the relationship when I would find it out. If I could say that things were otherwise fine in the relationship it wouldn't matter. Another reason is that if my behavior hadn't been so good around the same time, I don't know that I could blame them for cheating. There was a time before I stopped drinking that my real life at home behavior was...not great. Sloppy. Annoying. Me not being a good partner. There's no way I could look my husband in the eye with a straight face and tell him that me finding out he had slept with someone else had been more disruptive than how I was actually acting before I got sober. It was a lot of the reason that I got sober actually, because I felt like nobody would take my side if something bad happened to me. They'd tell me I was a shit partner and I deserved it.

But with all of the infidelity I've unexpectedly uncovered through genealogy work, it almost feels impossible to get away from. At this point I just don't expect life long monogamy whatsoever. Expecting it just feels like setting yourself up for major heartbreak and disappointment.

But I'm also a woman. And expecting life long sexual monogamy from a man who has options is betting against the house. Meanwhile it's doubtful that any woman you got with would sit around living a double life, she would just cheat and then leave so depending on your morals on a situation, your wife ultimately leaving you would likely be better.

[–]Andre27Purple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]That__ESTPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I would say nowadays with reliable birth control, women's careers, and no fault divorce, there aren't many men being tricked into raising other men's children. The other day someone brought up Maury and Jerry Springer and I agree with them that yes, paternity fraud does happen. But I'm talking about people who you'd put your hand on a holy book and say "these are decent and good people". Not Misty and Darrell from the trailer park.

Now with that said, my genealogy work has unexpectedly uncovered a lot of affairs. Like holy shit, back in the good old days when divorce was very hard to get and was basically social suicide? Paternity fraud abounds! I regularly get people 75 and older who want me to walk them through their ancestry DNA test. And it is not uncommon for us to discover when they get their results that they are not their known father's biological child. And it's like a nuclear bomb went off in the room. Because these are people who will argue with me that their parents were good Christian people who were happily married for decades! They died in each other's arms! They would never do this! And it's like, the DNA test isn't lying. Or they find out that they have a half sibling from their father having a child outside of the marriage but during the marriage.

This happen A LOT. Like I go ahead and talk them through who their support system will be if they find out something earth shattering about their family history because whoa buddy. Let's just say that any idealization I've had about The Good Old Days are gone.

And those are just just the DNA tests. I also have helped people go through letters and learn more about their family history through the letters. Their mother's yearly trip to Mexico with her sister? It started when she had to get an abortion because she was cheating on her father with a married man. They made it a yearly trip to make it not look so suspicious afterwards. Your father being such a hard worker that he worked two jobs to support the family? He worked two jobs because he had a love child on the side and part of that time that he was "at work" he was with his other family.

Lies, betrayal, all of it. You spend decades of your life with someone and you're going to deal with some bad stuff eventually. Humans are also naturally serial monogamists. We're living in a weird time where expectations of life long marriage from child bearing years until death still exists. But death might not be til you're 97. Before modern medicine, people died left and right. Men died while working dangerous jobs or while at war. Women died in childbirth. Children died of easily preventable disease noawadys. Both genders died from stuff like the flu and other infections. It wasn't unheard of to be married two or three times because of all of the death around you.

I like to play a game called "how would you have died if you had been born exactly 100 years prior?" Personally, I would have died while being born. My mom would have died. That would have been one marriage and widow hood under my dad belt. And then he would have died a few years later when he got bucked off of a horse and into a barbed wire fence which resulted in a nasty infection that thankfully was easily healed with today's medicine.

So nowadays? I doubt anyone is unsuspecting and raising another man's child or thinks he has biological children but he doesn't. I've said before that as a man, your fear shouldn't be raising another man's child. It should be the more realistic fear that your wife will meet a new man who she falls head over heels for, hits your with the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" while she serves you with divorce papers, and then you're co parenting with the asshole she left you for (and possibly paying child support) for your 100% biological kids. DNA tests are way too prevalent and easy to get nowadays. I don't think any woman who you'd give the time of day to begin with could actually think she could get away with it.

Thanks for reading, this is likely more information than you had interest in. But basically, we as humans are living in new and unprecedented times for ourselves.

[–]Andre27Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Idk, maybe not nowadays but atleast 20-30 years ago paternity fraud seems to have still been relatively existant seeing how many posts there are online of fathers finding out one or more of their kids arent theirs. I agree though I guess that it would probably be a bit more unlikely nowadays.

Also funny thing about that good christian comment is that the bible is pretty much a bunch of cuck stories anyways. Its not an uncommon feature there as far as I know.

Also historically I would have probably died from malnourishment combined with disease. Or gotten killed/maimed from thieving or some sort of street crime. Or beaten to death by some lord or farmer. Best case scenario for me historically wouldve probably been joining some sort of army and made something of myself that way if I didnt die.

[–]That__EST1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Andre271 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Haunting_Syllabub617 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Brook_ETH 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Haunting_Syllabub617 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Brook_ETH -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Advencik -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It's great for them. Society begs to differ. Amount of divorces, single mother homes, crime among single mother raised kids, like 67% of sexless men in age 20-40, lower and lower birth rates, less men choosing blue collar jobs due to being less desirable by women, men opting out of relationships or looking for it outside their country. Shit is about go hit fan and I am opening popcorn. Women were not ready for their freedom. Too much freedom doesn't seem to lead to positive outcomes in society we live in. I really would love to see every man wanting relationship with traditional wife, simply leave West for Asia, get their trad wife and be happy there instead of settling for extremally entitled, privileged, delusional modern women. Why shouldn't they if they simply can invest less and get more? Men are not stupid and LONG TERM RELATIONSHIP is THE MOST IMPORTANT INVESTMENT in every men's life.

[–]JNRoberts42 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Brook_ETH 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Advencik 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Brook_ETH 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Plopolok 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 65 points66 points67 points 3 years ago (212 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 59 points60 points61 points 3 years ago (88 children) | Copy Link

[–]NannersBoy -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 years ago (42 children) | Copy Link

[–]oooo020201lfl 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]oooo020201lfl 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]oooo020201lfl1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]crujones33No Pill 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NannersBoy 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]DysfunctionalKitten 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit-2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DysfunctionalKitten 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you understand how power and status are inherently economically coercive in a romantic connection that’s abroad, if the woman is less financially secure than you?

Here’s the rest of whether it’s purely the SE culture vs. economic coercion at play tipping the scale - do the women who have more power and status in Thailand than you do, connect with you in the same way? Or have you only connected with the women who just so happen to have a lower economic status than you? Because if your theory is accurate, and it’s their appreciation and how SE traditionalism plays into your interactions, then the woman having significantly higher status and more wealth than you would still be women you dated there. But if there is more at play economically, then almost all of the connections would be with women who are of lower economic status than you.

[–]tuke56kbit1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ryandiy 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Flashy-Country-800 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ryandiy 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]ryandiy 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]skipsfasterPurple Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]skipsfaster1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]skipsfaster1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Backas_Before_Work 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

We were told that making money was a good way to get women. Boomers and even many people our own age still repeat this obvious lie.

You were told by boomers, who entered into relationships between 40-60 years ago, that making money was a good way to get women.

You never questioned whether this information was out of date given how long ago this was or how much the economy and relationship dynamics have changed since then?

You also never questioned if women were actually attracted to money or if money would just attract women who were looking for a paycheck?

You never wondered if women are attracted to money exclusively or maybe money is just a bonus or if it's a combination of things?

You also never thought to I don't know... ask women if any of this was true or not?

Seriously, do you want women to do basic logic and thinking for you?

If we had been told getting jacked and being tall is how to get women, there would be a lot less bitterness.

If women talk about liking tall guys, men start shrieking about how ridiculous this is.

Also getting jacked doesn't really do shit if your face is ugly.

[–]NannersBoy -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]NannersBoy -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit0 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]DysfunctionalKitten 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]belachewhm 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad [score hidden] 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD [score hidden] 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad [score hidden] 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD [score hidden] 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Clementinequeen95 -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Flashy-Country-800 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Advencik -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Perfect_Sir4820 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Perfect_Sir4820 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AidsVictim 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts421 points 3 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Advencik 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]IceC19 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]skipsfasterPurple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Peacesquad 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune9038 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (67 children) | Copy Link

[–]Flashy-Country-800 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune9038 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Flashy-Country-800 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune9038 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Popular_Accountant60 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OfSpock 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune9038 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]OfSpock 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune9038 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]OfSpock [score hidden] 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 19 points20 points21 points 3 years ago (52 children) | Copy Link

[–]BioNipple 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 14 points15 points16 points 3 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]KommandaKoopa 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]KommandaKoopa 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dependent-Tomato-534 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KommandaKoopa -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dependent-Tomato-534 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KommandaKoopa 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BioNipple 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 years ago* (27 children) | Copy Link

[–]Clementinequeen95 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune9038 -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune9038 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune9038 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]blebbyroo2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune90382 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]blebbyroo2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune90382 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]blebbyroo2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bread93096 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune9038 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]bread93096 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune9038 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]bread930963 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune90382 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bread930962 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]learn2earn89 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune9038 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CowImmediate2631 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

[–]CowImmediate2631 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]CowImmediate2631 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]CowImmediate2631 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]CowImmediate2631 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_DONGERZ -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts423 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_DONGERZ0 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts422 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_DONGERZ0 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts422 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_DONGERZ1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts423 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_DONGERZ1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]tuke56kbit 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]CoffinEluder 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]CowImmediate2631 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]CowImmediate2631 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]CowImmediate2631 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

A lot of women expect men in the top 1% while she isnt anywhere near that.

Most people are genuinely attracted to someone they get together with (at least at the start). And most people who get together are neither of them pulling in six figures.

My sisters and I have wildly different tastes even though we have similar lives, upbringings, appearance, and all the same parents. Between the three of us we probably cover more than half the male population as far as what we like.

That's just my family but extrapolate that. Consider the diversity in tastes throughout a city, a county, a state, a country.

Just about everyone gets covered, most of them by multiple people in a lifetime.

The men that cant compete with that also have the right to feel some kind of way at those standards.

They can feel how they want, but most men can compete and do.

When what you’re looking for disqualifies 99% if men it’s not “simply standards”. It’s delusion.

You are being hyperbolic anyway with this 99% and 1%. Most people are still having sex. Most people are still dating.

It's not delusion it's the very visceral perceptible reality that you're attracted to who you are attracted to. It's perfectly valid. And it's also not delusion when people find that person they were looking for. They might have missed them if they forced themselves to date someone they didn't want.

And their dream guy who has all these qualities that turn them on and they find compatible with their life might reject them.

Some people are worried about the preferences of someone they don't even like and who doesn't like them. I would say that's much closer to delusion.

[–][deleted]1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You are being hyperbolic anyway with this 99% and 1%. Most people are still having sex. Most people are still dating.

Again, it’s not all women that do this. I already showed you that most young men are single. The women that do this stuff are the ones I’m talking about.

It's not delusion it's the very visceral perceptible reality that you're attracted to who you are attracted to. It's perfectly valid. And it's also not delusion when people find that person they were looking for. They might have missed them if they forced themselves to date someone they didn't want.

That’s the thing… they dont. At least not to actually settle down with. Sure they get fucked but these kind of women often end up single as well (or they’re sharing these men). It’s “valid” in that it’s their real feelings. It’s delusional because they never get that guy because they cant comprehend they’re not good enough as a women to keep one of them.

And their dream guy who has all these qualities that turn them on and they find compatible with their life might reject them.

Or he’ll simply fuck them until he’s bored. Then she’ll complain about men being trash adding to the jaded men haters. Yay?

Some people are worried about the preferences of someone they don't even like and who doesn't like them. I would say that's much closer to delusion.

Who knows if they like them? It’s about the overall dating pool/market being smaller and dating being more difficult for men. That was my original point and how this discussion started.

[–]RocinanteCoffee1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sure they get fucked but these kind of women often end up single as well (or they’re sharing these men).

Most women (and men) don't end up single at all. The majority gets married or has long-term relationships. And there is a growing percentage of people like me who have no interest in or desire for anything like marriage. It's not a concerning or negative thing when someone who doesn't want to get married doesn't get married.

Or he’ll simply fuck them until he’s bored.

And there is a growing percentage of women who also enjoy sex and aren't necessarily interested in moving things to a different arrangement, particularly if things get boring. Some men and women just like sex and that's fine.

Then she’ll complain about men being trash adding to the jaded men haters.

You're talking about a small subset of people who feel they've been mistreated (or have been mistreated). Most women have long-term relationships or marriages by their early thirties. And in the younger generations, those who do decide to get married are divorcing less and reporting higher levels of happiness about their marriages than generations over 45.

Someone removed from a dating pool who did not ever like you and you didn't like them in the first place is not a negative. Someone whose preferences one finds unreasonable would not be a good match for them.

I don't date conservatives for example, you'd be hard-pressed to find a conservative who cares that someone who doesn't like their mindset is swiping left on them. It's a better outcome for both, regardless of if it removes one person from both our dating pools.

[–][deleted]1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Most women (and men) don't end up single at all. The majority gets married or has long-term relationships.

You keep making these statements and ignoring the fact that I’n referring to specific demographics. Younger FDS types.

And there is a growing percentage of women who also enjoy sex and aren't necessarily interested in moving things to a different arrangement, particularly if things get boring. Some men and women just like sex and that's fine.

Okay so we’re back to the point of more men being left out while women are sharing their top 1%. I think it makes sense that men wouldnt like that.

You're talking about a small subset of people who feel they've been mistreated (or have been mistreated). Most women have long-term relationships or marriages by their early thirties.

I dont care about “most women”. This is again about younger people and the current dating market.

And in the younger generations, those who do decide to get married are divorcing less and reporting higher levels of happiness about their marriages than generations over 45.

Source?

Someone removed from a dating pool who did not ever like you and you didn't like them in the first place is not a negative. Someone whose preferences one finds unreasonable would not be a good match for them.

On a micro level? Sure

On a macro level it leads to more lonely young men and people giving up on dating

[–]RocinanteCoffee1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Okay so we’re back to the point of more men being left out while women are sharing their top 1%.

70% of men are regularly getting laid, mostly in connections where there is mutual attraction, most of these connections are hetero.

Your 1% is nonsensical. But even if it was the reality, a person can say no to whomever they don't want.

This is again about younger people and the current dating market.

Yes younger people and the current dating market. Most younger people are dating. Most are either with someone or single by choice, with a small subset being single not-by-choice. Most have sex by age 17 and more than 90% by age 25.

Source?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-09-25/millennials-are-causing-the-u-s-divorce-rate-to-plummet?leadSource=uverify%20wall

https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/h2sk6/

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2007.00392.x

If you marry and are under 45, you are part of reducing the divorce rate by half.

On a macro level it leads to more lonely young men and people giving up on dating

People for whom dating isn't for them abstaining from dating is not a bad thing. Loneliness is not caused by lack of dates. The cure for loneliness isn't more young men dating. It's caused by lack of social connections and relationships in general. It has nothing to do with a subreddit about dating and romantic or sexual dynamics.

[–]Advencik 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Flashy-Country-800 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gofigure62No Pill 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Men haven't understood what women want collectively or individually since the dawn of time. The only thing that has changed is women gaining financial independence and not needing to attach themselves to any man in order to survive.

Men are experiencing that they have to concede to a woman's wants directly for the first time in history. Men haven't collectively grasped that women are no longer passed to them via social need, social pressure, or permissions from her family.

Women's selection criterion has never existed, as women's selection was primarily based on survival and the dependence not to be socially excommunicated.

Men collectively aren't able to psychologically grasp or comprehend that they now have to go to women individually to adhere to the specific wants and requirements of individual women, to get women. Which is massively confusing to men.

[–]JNRoberts42 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Soloandthewookiee 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (49 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Sekina7FDS Femme Fatale -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mydragonurdungeon -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

[–]Soloandthewookiee 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mydragonurdungeon 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]Soloandthewookiee 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mydragonurdungeon 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Generally_Confused1 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mydragonurdungeon -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Generally_Confused1 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mydragonurdungeon -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Generally_Confused11 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Not every waking moment but yeah you put in the work over long periods of time. I went back into therapy at the end of 2021, joined an alcohol program, etc. I was working at a job that was abusing me with the schedule but I worked alone overnight so I stayed so I could listen to my therapy audiobooks. I still meditate every day, exercise regularly again, have learned acceptance, actively ask for feedback in ways to improve myself,went to therapy regularly, found out I was bipolar and got properly medicated and keep up with a mood tracking app etc. It's not every waking moment but it's a relatively sizable amount of time and effort. I still have more I need to do, I haven't gone through a cognitive behavioral therapy book yet or practiced it regularly, I could stand to work out in a few different ways and more, I have a new job that's great and I've really improved in but I still want to learn and develop more in it. There's a lot that goes into it but it's over a long period of time with consistency, just like any skill or ability you try and improve or master. It's not easy, but I promise you that it's worth it.

[–]Mydragonurdungeon1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Generally_Confused11 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mydragonurdungeon1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Generally_Confused10 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

-Talks about how it's hard work to do self work and improvement

Gives examples of what I do and why it's hard work Why is it offensive to you for me to talk about what I do for myself? you specifically said no one puts the work into themselves like I was describing and I said, "well I do" so your comment was an opening to me giving an example of it. And what I said is universally true, a lot of people WANT to put in the effort but not everyone does, just like new years resolutions that fall to the wayside.

Closer to my analogy is someone claiming no one works out every day and me saying, "well I do example and so do others so that's incorrect" Don't make blanket statements if you don't want someone to give personal examples that contradict it. I was not condescending nor critical of others, I was saying the shit I do for myself as a direct rebuttal to your claim that "no one does that" because it's false. And no one has to do what I do, it looks different for others but if I'm not allowed to give personal examples in this argument then it changes it. If you'd prefer I could find some research papers to link you about this. Another example is that CBT is one of the most effective methods of therapy but has a low completion rate, that's statistically proven. So saying that people fall off of it and giving an example of how you stay on track would be fair if someone claimed, "well no one completes it!"

[–]Mydragonurdungeon1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you specifically said no one puts the work into themselves like I was describing

No I didn't.

and I said, "well I do" so your comment was an opening to me giving an example of it.

It was what you've been waiting for to flex online about unverifiable nonsense.

And what I said is universally true, a lot of people WANT to put in the effort but not everyone does, just like new years resolutions that fall to the wayside.

Here we go again!

I was not condescending nor critical of others

Saying most men are lazy and you're awesome is exactly critical of others and condescending.

So saying that people fall off of it and giving an example of how you stay on track

You don't need to make it about you at all.

would be fair if someone claimed, "well no one completes it!"

Maybe if someone had said that.

[–]Generally_Confused11 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mydragonurdungeon1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Generally_Confused11 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I clearly said I have more effort to put in than I do, I have things I'm supposed to be working on but have been stagnant. I mentioned what I've done to this point but then mentioned the books I have unread, the behavioral therapy I still need to do, etc. I've put a lot of work into myself but have a lot more to go. It's the journey that matters.

And yes that's my point, "perfect" is a hypothetical idealization that we will never reach but that doesn't mean we can't TRY to be our best self. I'm most definitely not my best self, I have a lot to work on still and I'm still trying but that doesn't mean I'll write it off that I'll never get better. I'm very far from perfect and quite frankly privileged as fuck with the support and opportunity I've been given.

My point is that while it's a never ending quest, putting in the work matters. Even if the goal is not completely reachable, working on ourselves to progress towards that end is a worthwhile endeavor because we will be better than how we started.

But throwing your hands up and calling it impossible so that you don't even begin that journey is what's wrong. No one will fault you for not being "your best self" but the question is, are you still willing to undertake that journey and face the hardships of it for the sake of the betterment you can achieve!

It's like Lord of the rings, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey.

[–]Mydragonurdungeon1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Generally_Confused11 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You were... Talking about me.... You told me there was probably more I could be doing to work on myself, and I said there is. I agreed. And made the point that I'm not inherently more special than anyone else but have been working towards that goal. And that I believe that it's a worthwhile goal. We're talking about working on ourselves and I was giving examples of what I do to that end. Again, if you'd like, I could find some research studies and statistics about this stuff and similar topics.

I'm not where I'm supposed to be either, but I'm better than where I was. And aside from statistics, I'm using personal anecdotes to make a point because it's what I know, I'm better off than where I was so I encourage others to do the same but it requires lifestyle changes and a "change of heart" I suppose.

My entire point is that trying to be "your best self" takes a lot of work and effort and lifestyle change. And although we will never be perfect, the effort we put into it is worthwhile.

But to an earlier comment, people probably don't want to not be their best selves but what are they doing to progress themselves towards that end in a substantial manner? I know what I'm doing towards that end but not what others are doing so it's not like I can speak on that too much because I'm not them.

But I could talk about well known other people like when Robert Downey Jr hit rock bottom, or when Nikki Sixx OD'd was resuscitated, got clean and became an advocate of recovery, etc. All are simply just examples of tangible evidence of self work and what people do to that end and their efforts. And that's all that matters, the effort.

[–]Mydragonurdungeon1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sad_Top1743Misogyny is not a joke Jim 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Soloandthewookiee 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AidsVictim -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Soloandthewookiee 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]noafrochamplusamurai 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mydragonurdungeon -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]noafrochamplusamurai 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mydragonurdungeon 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

you aren't going to be compatible with most women under any circumstances, we need to get rid of that delusion.

I never even said anything otherwise.

Internal work helps you create a better filter, resulting in better selection, which yields better dating results. You control your end of it, and the results will follow suit.

*may follow and again, "internal work" is sufficiently vague to be meaningless.

Then again what do I know,

I have a feeling you're not going to leave it at that.

I'm just a guy that by all measures on this board should be doing poorly with women. Meanwhile I have an astronomical N count, I've been married, and have no shortage of women that want my attention.

Kewl?

You can keep treading your path in the wrong direction if you want. Or listen to the people that know the directions to where you're trying to go.

Or you can listento the reality that just because something works for you doesn't mean it would work for others.

Very odd you're so adamant about dispelling a myth nobody mentioned about universal compatibility but can't grasp the concept that your strategies aren't compatible with everyone.

[–]noafrochamplusamurai 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mydragonurdungeon 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]noafrochamplusamurai1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mydragonurdungeon1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker[M] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Arrathall -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Soloandthewookiee 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Arrathall -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Soloandthewookiee 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Arrathall -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Clementinequeen95 -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Loud_Definition6669 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Novadina 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Novadina 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Being taller is one of the things homo sapient females find attractive. It may be the things they find attractive are better for power, strength, and health - like height, muscles, good hair and skin - but that doesn’t mean they weren’t just seeing it as physically attractive. It’s the same way with men find things physically attractive that are better for fertility and health - like extra fat in the breasts, wide hips, youth, good hair and skin.

None of that means it’s not selecting for being attractive. It means biology has us finding things physically attractive that are correlated to things that result in better offspring.

In times of history when there have been men who were leaders and getting all the women it wasn’t women selecting them, it was the men having so much power they could force women to be with them. Humans typically prefer to couple up, not have one man be the only one reproducing like a horse herd.

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Novadina 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts42 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]blockedbylosers 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AstronautLoveShackSuccubus Demon whose every motive is pure evil 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jhondough345 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LotBuilder 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Haunting_Syllabub617 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LotBuilder -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Haunting_Syllabub617 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jmoincali -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LotBuilder -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]__ButWhy__ 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Clementinequeen95 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]oooo020201lfl 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Clementinequeen95 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Clementinequeen95 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Clementinequeen95 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bread93096 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AFuzzyMuffin 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Clementinequeen95 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]AFuzzyMuffin 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]NannersBoy -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AFuzzyMuffin 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Arrathall 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AFuzzyMuffin 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jmoincali 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]biggestuzifaneaDEEZ Pilled 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Clementinequeen95 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]biggestuzifaneaDEEZ Pilled -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]eastern_rising1890 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]General_High_Ground 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sunshine12e 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Think about it. In the past, when it took extreme physical labor to procure food, whether through hunting or when agriculture began, women would have needed what? A strong man, who was capable of feeding the group. On top of being strong, being smart might also work in a man's favor, as far as procuring or protecting. So, then women would have been attracted to what? A strong, intelligent man. If you watch mating between deer, you will see that the young strong buck will get the majority of the does, however there will also be instances where an older male is seen being "nice" to a female and can get a female that way (like I once saw a video where an older male was pulling up food and feeding it to a female and they appeared to be pretty affectionate with each other) Well, as humanity advanced, being physically strong is not as important to survival and procuring necessities/food/wants, or for protecting, and so now men who are not physically strong, can also attract women. In the past, the young strong guy probably got the majority of the women both young and old, and now older less physically fit men will have an advantage on the younger stronger guys, if they are: smart, have wealth, are nicer, more pleasant or enjoyable to be around.

[–]Eastern-Action1384 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]CoffinEluder 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eastern-Action1384 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eastern-Action1384 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eastern-Action1384 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eastern-Action1384 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]blaizken_420 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kingdionethethird 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Idk where all of this you need to have money and provide. I was flat broke pulling absolute hotties. This is one talking point about the red-pill that is pure bs. I was very good looking in my youth. I’m bigger now, but before I picked up the extra weight I was able to pull any chick I wanted.

I believe RP content creators don’t set hard disclaimers because it would heavily mess with their bottom line. The truth is submitting, will never be able to pull the girls they want. Not every man is going to have top tier looks, not every man is going to make 200k a year, and certainly not every man is going to work on game for 10 years before their efficient enough added to actually be affective with it. Looks matter! They matter a lot. To act like they don’t just to keep that bottom line is disingenuous to say the least

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]Impossible-Bank-1697 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]iamsobasic 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ridan_1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kobe_curry24 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fichek 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kobe_curry24 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ridan_1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kobe_curry24 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ridan_1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kobe_curry24 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ridan_1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kobe_curry24 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BigVulvaEnergy 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Chemical_Major_1403 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (53 children) | Copy Link

[–]that_ballerr 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JNRoberts421 points 3 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Haunting_Syllabub617 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Preme2 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]Embarrassed-Tune9038 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 16 points17 points18 points 3 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]that_ballerr 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]Blame_the_Muse{<my pussy tastes like pepsi cola>} 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CoffinEluder -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]fakingandnotmakingit 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]that_ballerr -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Blame_the_Muse{<my pussy tastes like pepsi cola>} 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-67471 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]YaKnowEstacadofuck the pastryarchy, I don't knead no man 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]that_ballerr 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ultrashitposter -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]DiamondLilyD 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Preme2 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Filmguy000 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Men did create it as a standard as they realised it advantaged them

Not really. It didn't give men an advantage at all. It caused higher costs of living and consequently, social tension between genders that are just now starting to become noticed by most. In America, once women began entering the workforce in droves during the 70's, we saw a sharp spike in real estate prices. Now we have an economy where in order to buy a home, two incomes are almost always required unless you are in the top 20% of earners or have help from relatives (if you're lucky). It is now to the point where even rent has become mostly unaffordable for single people (even for couples in many cases).

This is also why the dating standards of women are so inflated these days. Because cost of living has been rising faster than income levels. And women are now out earning men very quickly. So men are not stacking up for the nicer standard of living that most women want. And now I am seeing more and more guys around me trying to be influencers and make all this extra side cash to chase status and cash to even have a ticket to the dance of dating. Just a couple of decades ago, having a decent job was good enough to live life and find a partner. Now women want a man that's this, this and that with "future prospects", "multiple goals in life", "a purpose" and "active hobbies" and all this first world bullshit.

I get that the whole workplace equality thing had good intentions. And most thought, "well women can now work, make their own money and contribute to the household (for families or independently), and everyone wins!". But when you really look at the ripple effect from the past half century and do the math, there is no question that the results have been disastrous. For both women and men and for different reasons.

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]plplokokplok 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]plplokokplok 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'll still disagree with you. Most humans won't go for someone that can't take care of themselves, period. The only men I've seen do so are ones with the "white knight" syndrome where they think they can save the woman and earn her love. It's just never an attractive quality in a potential mate if they can't take care of themselves.

Caring for home and kids has always been the thing women ask/complain about to their husbands. I don't think it's a special requirement at all. Men have traditionally been expected to play an active and often disciplinary role in their child's life. Regarding caring for the home, men have traditionally been expected to build the home (historically), and do maintenance and repair on it while the woman keeps it tidy and clean. It's always been a shared burden but the roles were split evenly in ways that made sense for the time and culture they were in.

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]crujones33No Pill 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]CoffinEluder -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]crujones33No Pill 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AidsVictim 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Arrathall 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok-Supermarket-6747 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]veleriphon 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]subject5of5 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm not upset, I'm ok with being single. A good relationship would be great but without it I'm fine. I think I've made a huge effort from where I was to where I become to be a decent guy, and that's what women keep saying, men need to put effort, until you realize it's not true, at all.

I'm trying to shed light on a problem that no one wants to admit it exists. I'm all for women independence. My sisters all are independent, and we supported them to finish their education and get good jobs, and eventually got married to men they're happy with. What I'm talking about is this independence had brought to light some previously hidden preferences that are difficult to meet by men.

Now women say to men rise to our standards or there's no relationships, and men say to women lower your standards because your standards are unrealistic. A deadlock no one can solve.

Hell to humanity.

[–]subject5of5 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HighestTierMaslow 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]Arrathall 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HighestTierMaslow 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

Why are the majority of couples average looking people paired together then? Most couples do not have a big disparity in attractiveness. When I do see a disparity, it is usually the woman who is more attractive (though I think thats just bc women tend to put more effort into their appearance)

You and other male repliers keep saying men dont have rigid standards. You dont know that. You have not spoken to every male on this earth about his views, and alot of men dont really openly say what they prefer or even realize what they prefer until they are actively dating and having sexual activity. Alot of people, men and women, who complain their partner isnt attractive enough wait until months into dating to open their mouth about it when they feel more secure with that person. You perhaps as an individual arent picky...but I would stop projecting that your peers are like you.

Also want to note when I say "picky" I dont mean always "shooting out of his league."

I'm 5'4 and 130 lbs. I weight lift but not excessively. I have generally had a 36-26-39 measurements. I have had men tell me I am too thin, not thin enough, too muscular, not muscular enough, too curvy and not curvy enough. All of this when my body type has not changed at all. Alot of the men that have made these comments are very average looking men too. In fact a post here contained a picture of an average looking guy from an OLD app and it looked like alot of my exes. That alone shows you men prefer different things and that everyone has different preferences.

[–]plplokokplok 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I just need to point out that your statement saying he, as a man, can't speak to other men's standards because he hasn't spoken to all men is self-defeating because you have not spoken to all men either. You have only your experience to draw off of.

That said I think you're absolutely right that too many men have excessively rigid standards for beauty. I've watched and listened to tons of my male peers talk about what they want or expect from a woman's appearance. While there's always a variance in preferences, the general shape and size of a woman in most men's minds seems to be the same. More ironically, to me, is how many of those men looked sloppy, or poorly dressed, or obese, or unclean. It just never made sense to me. Like, if you want to attract a fit, sexy, well-dressed woman, shouldn't you also be trying to be a fit, sexy, well-dressed man? Seems like basic math to me.

I’ll not deny your reality. I only know one person in my life who wasn't completely satisfied with his gf, so he cheated on her. For the most part, if a guy asks out a girl for a date, makes a lot of effort in the relationship, shows her to his friends and family, etc. There is a great chance he like his woman.

Regarding the standard, men will not date anyone, but we are less rigid about women's beauty. For me, I'll ideally have a relationship with an arabic, a latina or a white girl. The girl doesn't have to be a model.

I can find attractive overweight girls. I’ll be honest, I’ll not consider them as gf potential because I’m working out a lot, so I'd like someone who also values the fact of being active.

On the contrary for men, most of us feel we are unattractive to the opposite sex. I honestly have this mindset. That's why one of the reasons I'm going to the gym is to lower my body fat percentage to 12%, so I can find someone who will truly find me attractive.

[–]HighestTierMaslow 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]IceC19 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RocinanteCoffee 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you believe that men, in their 30s, become more attractive (overall attractive, not necessarily physically) to women? Wh

Not all of them but some. Most people grow. And it's not just men, but the women too. Your brain develops, you learn who you are, you might become more comfortable in your own skin, you have more life experience.

A lot of people who were miserable resentful shut-ins in high school might be a lot more well-rounded and relaxed in their thirties.

The trajectory for many as they age is growth, or at least becoming more comfortable in their own skin, being able to make their own choices away from the control of parents and find out who they really are.

It's not a guaranteed trajectory obvlously, but it's common enough.

Why one guy wasn't attractive to young women when he was young himself and then it got easier for him in his 30s?

In many cases for the reasons I stated. Most people are not their best, most confident, most developed selves in their teens and twenties.

[–]KissCutMeKeanu is disappointed 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]NannersBoy -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]KissCutMeKeanu is disappointed 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]IceC19 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KissCutMeKeanu is disappointed 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NannersBoy -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KissCutMeKeanu is disappointed 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Arrathall -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jay10033 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PodlubnyiNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Plopolok 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]trippingfingers -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gymbro718nyc2former manwhore -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SoumarRu -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AidsVictim -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sofapilotuniverse 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Useful-Indication225 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Vronicasawyerredsded 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MilkyWayDot[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Women's selection criterion have changed, but men have remained largely the same
Author	MilkyWayDot
Upvotes	98
Comments	567
Date	March 17, 2023 4:49 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11twl4j/womens_selection_criterion_have_changed_but_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/womens-selection-criterion-have-changed-but-men.1180495 https://theredarchive.com/post/1180495

Comments