Sugar/Transactional Dating is eventually going to become normalized

upalse · 2022-08-02T18:13:17+00:00

Isn't that just a giant horseshoe, back to super-trad bride price cultures?

baresquad · 2022-08-02T17:37:04+00:00

It’s not already normal? Sugar daddies have been around forever. I first saw it in person in terms of its newer popularity back in like 2016 and realized it’s a lifestyle that a lot of people live and now I’ve dated several women who’ve had/have or seek out sugar relationships

It’s not really all that big of a deal if you don’t participate though. Just a bunch of people in their private arrangements

What won’t happen though is a lot of dudes getting rich enough to be sugar daddies though, so I wouldn’t bank on that happening since wealth is one of the hardest things to come by if you’re not born in it

Lift_and_Lurk · 2022-08-02T18:29:08+00:00

Bro, the ones that want to and can afford to are probably already doing it. The rest of save up enough to get her a salad at Applebee’s and then bond over Netflix shows.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-08-02T17:44:39+00:00

There will always be more people who want to date someone they actually like than those who'll sacrifice liking someone to be paid. There's more of an emphasis on love matches now than ever before.

wtknight · 2022-08-02T18:04:13+00:00

There will always be sugar relationships, and I'd say they're already normalized. I know women who have used a dating website specifically to date men who will pay them.

That is not what the majority of women want when dating for personal relationships. Usually the man is not attractive or interesting to them; that's why it's a sugar relationship, if he didn't pay her she would have no reason to be there.

Would you settle for an obese/ugly woman with bad breath just because she paid you? Would you fuck a 55 year old woman for money? How long could you do that? Would it be enough?

There's so much more value to relationships than monetary gain. The girls who I know that have done sugar relationships did it for short periods when they needed money, most are now married to someone their age that they love.

ruboyuri · 2022-08-02T19:58:57+00:00

Any time men get money, they buy sex. This is not new nor rare

Nobody studies history anymore, huh?

Serpentsugar16 · 2022-08-02T18:59:16+00:00

Most men cannot afford a sugar arrangement lmao.

python834 · 2022-08-02T18:13:49+00:00

All relationships are transactional.

Your gf probably wouldn’t be with you if you werent attractive enough or have no friends or have no money.

Similarly, you wouldnt have asked out that girl if she doesn’t make your cock hard and had a personality that did not matched yours.

LowCreddit · 2022-08-02T19:40:40+00:00

It's not that the stigma of sugaring is decreasing. It's not. The stigma of dating normal men is increasing. A lot of women have convinced themselves that all men are the same and the only differentiators are sexiness and money. Women have become so antisocial that they are becoming transactional with sex.

sarkington · 2022-08-02T18:19:11+00:00

Rich dudes have always had mistresses. Which is what a sugar baby is

poppy_blu · 2022-08-02T17:56:24+00:00

There is NOTHING remotely new about men paying to have sexual access to attractive women.

Seriously. Are you guys aliens or something?

Karmanger · 2022-08-02T17:54:03+00:00

You could argue that normal dating is already transactional since the man 95% of the time is paying for the dates.

Also there aren't enough sugar daddies to make sugaring normalized. Most SB's are targeting men that make over 100k a year.... Only 24% of people in the USA are making that amount, not factoring if they are already married or Gay.

On top of that these are the men that "feel" they need to pay a woman to spend time with him, so take that for what it's worth.....

MembershipPlus2082 · 2022-08-02T17:52:08+00:00

I think in 20-30 years, VR will be so technologically advanced, you’ll be able to have sex there without even knowing you’re inside a virtual world

Men will prefer sex transactions in VR and women will have erotica story lines where they get seduced by handsome rich men.

TodTheRod01 · 2022-08-03T03:15:11+00:00

Dating is already transactional

Admirable_Bee_8714 · 2022-08-03T03:30:21+00:00

All dating is transactional.

purplish_possum · 2022-08-02T18:09:47+00:00

Just the opposite actually. The more equal and independent women become the more they will choose to hookup based on attraction.

We're seeing this play out everywhere. Looks are increasingly important. Money is becoming less relevant.

GlowingAsItDazzles · 2022-08-02T17:30:58+00:00

it will never be "normalized" among women it will always be low female status, this is a male fantasy that takes no account of female social reindeer games

mrcs84usn · 2022-08-02T18:53:19+00:00

No it won't. The Supply isn't there. There aren't enough men that have money like that, and of the men with money, there aren't enough willing to play that kind of charade.

Also, I don't know if there's enough Demand either. One label that women don't want is "gold digger." They know well enough that they can't just assume they will find the men they're looking for by having such a red flag.

For the short term gratification, it's already happening. For long term though, it won't happen.

MisterBastahrd · 2022-08-03T00:40:36+00:00

The fuck you think dating has been for literally hundreds of years? Imagine if men held women to the financial standards that women hold men to when it comes to dating and courtship. Even if he's not directly paying for sex, he's still paying for the opportunity to get it.

LeeroyX · 2022-08-03T01:00:02+00:00

Doubt it. You are forgetting how money flows through families (inheritance). There was a range of reasons why mistresses were not embraced historically, and one major factor was inheritance of assets.

Let me put it more plainly. Son, you bring a sugar baby home who had to be paid to sit at my table and my lawyer will be protecting my assets from your poor decisions.

sunnynihilist · 2022-08-03T02:09:28+00:00

I thought it was normalized already. Can't you see almost all relationships are transactional under the disguise of "love"?

RocinanteCoffee · 2022-08-02T17:35:44+00:00

I think more people find this dynamic appealing out of necessity as the economy worsens and housing becomes more expensive, but I still think in general relationships are less transactional as we (humanity) put more distance between us and the days when women were considered more property than person.

localmicrodosechamp · 2022-08-02T18:47:15+00:00

good. while i'm against it, it honestly seems like a step up for women. we may not be comfortable advocating for ourselves in traditional relationships and men use that to their advantage. But if a relationship is transactional from the start, its easier to negotiate what you are willing to do.

LovesGettingRandomPm · 2022-08-02T19:43:18+00:00

Both of the groups you mentioned never had real stigma associated, transactional dating is picking up and you could include onlyfans in that but eventually something is going to need to happen because they will be addicted to attention without gaining any real love.

GottaPSoBad · 2022-08-02T19:46:21+00:00

"Become normalized" implies that it isn't already. <.<

2022-08-02T20:36:36+00:00

The only reason it makes a lot of money is because most women are disgusted by the idea of sex work. That's why the stigma exists "oh god thats so horrendous, she must be in a really bad place to do that'.

I don't see how that's going to ever change

Gracie_777 · 2022-08-02T20:48:27+00:00

Of course it won't it will be a niche lifestyle fir a small group of unsavoury men and women. The rest of us will continue to form normal healthy relationships.

scwizard · 2022-08-03T00:33:08+00:00

In the US? Fat chance.

Lot of Christianity here.

LotBuilder · 2022-08-03T04:14:23+00:00

When you hit a certain income level all dating is sugar dating, so you might as well get exactly what you want because you are spending the same.

AdditionalPrice7336 · 2022-08-03T09:46:50+00:00

To contribute to the future hypothetically speaking one could dig a hole, a big hole seal in plastic the great works and cast themselves into a self collapsing abyss. 5 thousand years later you resurrect civilisation.

Sensitive-Judge713 · 2022-08-03T11:45:01+00:00

real love is priceless

Otfd · 2022-08-03T17:37:10+00:00

Idk a lot of people have a deep desire to find someone special and meaningful. I have no doubt it will be monetized I mean it already has with things like tinder, but I can't see it going too extreme because spending money to date someone will cheapen the romance significantly.

wtknight · 2022-08-02T17:42:18+00:00

One of the benefits of dating is usually good feelings of spending time with another person. Sugaring doesn’t involve this, so I don’t see how it will ever become mainstream. We are still too influenced by romantic media and the idea that our sexual partner is also supposed to be a friend whom we enjoy spending time with.

Also, women don’t need to sugar as much if they’re already making enough money maintaining separateness from them on sites like OnlyFans. Basically, men are so desperate for female attention that the they can be exploited without going as far as a sugared relationship.

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neetykeeno · 2022-08-02T18:57:16+00:00

Nah. The shittier less valuable party will transfer funds to a third party organisation who then attempts to crafty dating and material experiences that benefit the less shitty more valuable party significantly more in multiple different small ways that make the experience better. Thus the less valuable party ends up paying but not shamefully paying for sex and the more valuable party doesn't actually have the expectation on them they got to give jack shit in return. And the company does well for shareholders.

The experience will go like this...a pretty young girl sign up to a dating app...if the app is happy she is who she says she is she doesn't pay anything and gets given a bunch of vouchers...if on a date through us at Larry's Pasta House, both enter your codes and Larry brings you and your date two free glasses of house wine! Free makeover and a lipgloss at the Estee Lauder counter at Myers! Some are linked to verification she is on a date via the app and some are just for her to use at her discretion. And sometimes guys get vouchers too...well at least high value guys do. And occasionally a low value guy does but not nearly so much. Those low value guys however...start with a choice of whether they pay for certain things or not...thirty bucks extra if you want to start with five possible matches with girls who have said in their info they are willing to do coffee dates...we'll give you a voucher for two coffees though you can use on a date if you both input codes...you'll probably buy her cake too not to look cheap.

We've seen the start of this with apps like Tinder, charging those who "need" more swipes. It is just going to get more complicated and entrenched and obfuscated. The system has only begun to take your money and time.

If you think valuable individuals will cheerfully take on the mantle of hooker for chump change, you're wrong. If you think low value individuals won't cheerfully pay and pay and pay for increased possibility of results without certainty of results to avoid the mantle of being a user of sex workers, you're wrong. If you think a third party won't smooth this situation in return for profits, you're wrong.

IcarusKiki · 2022-08-03T03:56:40+00:00

I don't see it happening on a larger scale than it is now. No money is worth being around someone you aren't actually into

2022-08-02T18:03:39+00:00

All relationships are transactional in one way or another

2022-08-02T18:11:17+00:00

I think it's already normalized. Most people don't care about what other people do.

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2022-08-02T18:14:57+00:00

All relationships are already transactional for men

2022-08-02T18:23:02+00:00

Sugarness is not a binary system. Vast majority of relationships are transactions even for the most radfems.
It’s already pretty normalized. A good portion of people at my college already do it in some fashion.

Pilling_it · 2022-08-02T18:25:04+00:00

I see it thus as an inevitability that a sizable % of dating interactions will involve one party directly transferring $ to the other for their time.

If you consider that time is money, it has always been. During the time you try picking up someone, how much could have you made working and then spend it for in case of guys, guaranteed sex ?

To not be off topic, I'd say it's about more than sex itself, even if it's a component that is both the main thing and impossible to take out of.

NationalistGoy · 2022-08-02T18:37:13+00:00

Sugar daddies are for women who want benefits of a marriage without the duties of a wife.

In a traditional marriage (stay at home mom), a man usually pays for food, a house, transportation, etc, sometimes he pays for his wife's education (college), he may even help her start a business. The wife has duties, she has to rear the children, she has to keep the home clean, she has sex with her husband, she has to get the kids to sports practice, among many other things.

In a sugar type relationship, a man does all of the above, but the woman doesn't have duties.

A sugar type relationship is a better deal for women than it is for men. And I would put sugar type relationships on par with prostitution.

John_Oakman · 2022-08-02T18:55:10+00:00

The real game changer is if social legitimacy get commodified, though the chances of that are rather low...

Financial_Leave4411 · 2022-08-02T19:03:07+00:00

Do you think men will be more accepting of women who charge for their time in romantic relationships to the point that men are willing to marry these high n count women? If not I don’t see it becoming fully accepted.

Ohmaygahh · 2022-08-02T19:07:22+00:00

Already has become normalized. I learned 4 years into my first serious relationship that my very first gf had a strange relationship just prior of us getting serious.

She met some older 30 something year old guy when she was 19 and would cross state lines, go to his place and he got to do some depraved sexual things with her. Afterwards, she would clean up, clean him up, and clean his apartment for him. As she was leaving he would give her some lunch money in an envelope.

I guess there wasn't a formalized word for it but thats what it was. Had I had known prior to getting serious, I would not have pursued her for something serious.

It already has been getting normalized since the mid to late 90s.

EDIT, to add context my ex gf was normal, slim, girl. Nothing crazy or super provocative about her.

delight-n-angers · 2022-08-02T19:12:22+00:00

It's literally already normalized. lol.

Teflon08191 · 2022-08-02T19:34:01+00:00

I have a feeling "sugar dating" will only fill the gap between now and whenever they can get an AI to adequately pass the Turing test.

At which point "sugar dating" will gradually fade into a more and more niche category funded by "purist" guys who can't see past the fact that their companion isn't a real person.

You can already see it with the "v-tuber" stuff catering to lonely dudes on the internet. All they need to do is replace the real female entertainer behind the avatar with an AI.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2022-08-02T19:48:26+00:00

Eventually?? I was told in school about how getting rich was the best way to get women. that's always been the case!

pop442 · 2022-08-02T20:04:49+00:00

In the future, more non-rich White and Black American men are going to "divest" from their own women and get girlfriends/wives from Latin America and Southeast Asia.

There's already tons of Youtube videos and guides on it. Plus, I think the recent news about Americans moving to Mexico City will help pave the way for it.

Snoo_16536 · 2022-08-02T20:13:17+00:00

I don't care how good looking of a man you are, you will lose out to the average guy that can stimulate her feelings if you just stand right there like an awkward b!t*h.

63daddy · 2022-08-02T20:35:33+00:00

Most heterosexual relationships are transactional. Most women want to be provided for to some degree at some point in their life. Marriage is the long play, sugaring is the short play. Sugar relationships are more honest about the financial incentives involved.

Marriage (and divorce) can cost a guy way more than sugaring. Studies already show men are more reluctant to marry in large part due to the potential financial costs involved, many of which are outside of their control. I’ve read some articles indicating a notable number of female college students would sugar if they had the opportunity. (Well under half, but notable). I think there is less stigma to staying single and sugaring is becoming more acceptable as well, so, I think it may very well continue to become more mainstream.

ConsultJimMoriarty · 2022-08-02T21:33:34+00:00

You're saying that like marriages weren't about land ownership and building wealth.

Warm_Gur8832 · 2022-08-02T21:49:04+00:00

I think this is correct but incomplete.

People will simply be more honest due to less religious based shaming about what’s historically been the norm.

and the gender balance of this dynamic will likely shift, at least a bit, since women have more money relative to men than in the past.

carmenknisely · 2022-08-02T21:51:56+00:00

I get asked to be a sugar baby every week on my Instagram. I’m just trying to live my life, guess it’s time to go private again. I don’t see why men can’t use an escort service ?

Rough_Theme_5289 · 2022-08-02T22:09:17+00:00

It’s already and has been normal for quite some time . Paying to play has been a thing for centuries.

g0juice · 2022-08-02T22:16:25+00:00

I can’t wait. No more bs

midwesternMD · 2022-08-02T22:48:21+00:00

Disagree.

It might lose some of the stigma, but it will never be normalized. There simply aren’t enough wealthy men around to make it commonplace.

My individual income is somewhere in the top 2-3% of household incomes. I could probably afford to date this way, but I won’t do it because it’s financially irresponsible in the long term. So let’s just say the top 1% of households can do it long term. How many of those households are single? I’d hazard a guess only a small percentage.

JoeRMD77 · 2022-08-02T23:42:35+00:00

Money is just a tool to dominate others, that's what I learned.

PrinceBagratoni · 2022-08-03T01:12:52+00:00

You are being pessimistic. That's not to say women won't do what you're describing because many do, but they are as much their intimate partners as a prostitute's clients.

2022-08-03T02:34:09+00:00

I find it hilarious that women complain when they are objectified for their body but those are the same women who objectify men for their money.

2022-08-03T03:11:28+00:00

It'll eventually go the way of many previous taboos, like people living together before marriage or having kids out of wedlock in most places.

Even strippers aren't as stigmatized these days in most places.

ThisTimeForRealYo · 2022-08-03T06:52:09+00:00

Lol no.

cholmanattom · 2022-08-03T14:17:42+00:00

Pay them like pay your phone bills, per minute rate or monthly subscription.

optimus69prime69 · 2022-08-03T17:05:54+00:00

Sugar daddy has always been the norm. As a man you gotta have money/resources to mate. Has always been true in human history.

foxbirch · 2022-08-03T17:45:35+00:00

Already is

shonenhikada · 2022-08-04T12:27:11+00:00

"I see it thus as an inevitability that a sizable % of dating interactions will involve one party directly transferring $ to the other for their time"

this is current dating. Men give their money to women to give them a chance at "dating".

TheRedPillBeta · 2022-08-04T16:00:28+00:00

The oldest profession.

Trading money for sex and/or relationship time or however you want to describe it has always been with us, and will always be with us.

The only difference with transactional is that it is somewhat more explicit (not in the sexual sense, but in implicit/explicit dimensions). These things come in cultural waves. Sometimes the nature of male-female interaction is more implicit than explicit. And sometimes more explicit than implicit. But that's the only substantive difference.

Explicit rules are easier for men to understand. Pay X, get Y. Implicit rules are more difficult for men (but women seem to navigate them quite well), because they say Do X, and maybe you get Y. Or maybe it's X+A and you get Y/2. Who knows?

If anything, explicit transactional relationships are a bonus for men. But a small one, and not really a fundamental change otherwise.

Haunting_Afternoon62 · 2022-08-04T21:20:35+00:00

This has always been the way, but now we call it for what it is. No fluff.

Title	Sugar/Transactional Dating is eventually going to become normalized
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	137
Comments	452
Date	August 2, 2022 5:27 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/wehogm/sugartransactional_dating_is_eventually_going_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/sugartransactional-dating-is-eventually-going-to.1209203 https://theredarchive.com/post/1209203

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