The orgasm gap would be smaller if women took the time to communicate their needs instead of expecting things to magically happen to them

ace52387 · 2023-09-15T13:40:30+00:00

A woman starfishing probably DGAF about an orgasm gap. She probably just wants it over with. Pretty sure these are different people.

ashpr0ulx · 2023-09-15T13:57:03+00:00

while i agree communication is super important, the partner has to actually listen.

i cum super easily from penetration. great, right? but i detest being eaten out. i tell men this straight up: i hate it, please don’t try it. and most men listen, but it’s still an annoying number of men i’ve had to smack on the back of the head and tell to gtfo of there.

half of communicating is listening.

wheartv · 2023-09-15T13:52:46+00:00

Women might not realize that women are more diverse than men are when it comes to what feels good/works

They also want it just to happen because telling you somehow ruins it

Or they are bashful around sex

Or their idea of a real man is someone that just gets it

Or they want a man with so much experience with different women that they just know

Or they think the guy has had sex with as many women as they have had men (a lot of relationships end up where the woman has slept with twice as many people or more)

demedermidimi · 2023-09-15T13:25:09+00:00

probably. but there's still plenty of cases where women do communicate and men just don't care. "i moved his hand to where i like it and he just kept going back to rubbing my labia/thigh" is so common lol

Psl0131 · 2023-09-15T16:34:49+00:00

It would also be smaller if men proactively asked what women need. It’s a two way street. Good sex means both people caring about the other enjoying it.

LadyofTheGreyPath · 2023-09-15T14:55:27+00:00

Even the most misogynistic dude wants to sexually satisfy women

Respectful, I appreciate your optimism, but it falls right under the umbrella of being incredibly delusional to think someone who is a misogynist gives a shit about how women feel. It's right there in the name buddy. Does a misandrist care about sexually pleasing men? Nope.

You're also asking this on a sub where men have routinely said that women don't know what they want so they don't listen to them, so expecting anyone here to actually listen to a woman say what she likes sexually is going to be a colossal waste of time.

solstice-sky · 2023-09-15T14:08:51+00:00

The narratives that a woman receives about sex impact her heavily. Women are basically led to believe sex is done to her, her virginity is taken from her, so, yeah, in early sexual experiences a lot of women do just lay there in confusion. In doing so, they learn that men get off regardless. Most guys don’t actively complain about a woman being a starfish to her, so the woman goes on to think that’s just how sex is.

Not all women automatically understand their sexual pleasure. It may take years after their first experience, up to a decade, to even learn how to make themselves orgasm during sex. Some never learn.

Being proactive and vocal during sex can be intimidating, it’s difficult to stand up for what you want when you’re still figuring it out.

Even the most misogynistic dude wants to sexually satisfy women

Absolutely false. They want to believe they’re automatically good at it. They don’t want to hear a woman utter a single instruction or feedback whatsoever.

Makuta_Servaela · 2023-09-15T13:19:30+00:00

I think it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, really. Women hear all the time that sex isn't satisfying, so they don't expect satisfaction during sex, so they don't request it.

That, and women think that requesting satisfying sex makes her "needy" and annoying/unattractive.

Elliejq88 · 2023-09-15T15:10:22+00:00

Nope. The men I had sex with a gave them a friggin manual! Didnt help.

Alot of men will do it in the beginning...they become complacent over time. Its not an overnight thing either its gradual.

Also many men after I graciously gave them the friggin manual and overcommunicated probably in what I liked, they would argue with me and tell me what I liked LOL. Really weird behavior but whatever.

wtknight · 2023-09-15T13:38:28+00:00

[permanently deleted]

JNRoberts42 · 2023-09-15T13:47:45+00:00

We've had this discussion numerous times. Men refuse to listen and do what they want to do anyway, or worse, emulate porn. You might want to check out a recent trend on TikTok in which women try on the goattee filter and describe what kind of man they see in the mirror. "I look like the guy who plays Stairway on the guitar then rubs your left labia for an hour"

Like... incessantly rubbing the left or right labia and completely missing or ignoring the clit is so common it's a meme.

Men think they know better than women and the moment a woman says "That's the spot, keep doing that" he invariably changes up the rhythm, changes the pressure, or does something else entirely because he thinks women don't know what they want.

Even the most misogynistic dude wants to sexually satisfy women so if women wanted something during sex I doubt most dudes would dismiss it.

The most misogynistic dudes refuse to accept that a woman has the knowledge or right to express her desires.

Motor-Calendar6001 · 2023-09-15T13:35:17+00:00

Oh noooes silly inkwell chads are able to be mindreaders I only need to lay around and theyll do it all sweaty

Zombombaby · 2023-09-15T16:25:45+00:00

It took my husband 3 years of consistent communication to understand foreplay is required and you can't go straight into penetration after just making out for 2 minutes. It was only because of my own inexperience that I didn't break up with him after the first year of disappointing sex (he had multiple other partners before me who all gave him the exact same feedback). It took literally other men telling him that foreplay is important for it to even be incorporated in our sex lives.

Most people don't want to spend years waiting for selfish lovers to maybe clue in that sex isn't just for male pleasure. Lots of men don't even think women even enjoy sex or can even orgasm. I don't think it should be up to multiple individual women repeatedly communicating their needs over a period of years for (too many) men to finally understand how to please a woman.

If men wanted to learn, they would. The resources are there. They could do their own research. They could ask questions and be open to feedback. Instead they often get offended and blow up when their partners aren't blown away by their lackluster attempts at foreplay.

The funny part is my husband told me his prior partners weren't impressed and literally told him he wasn't a good sexual partner and he still wasn't open to feedback for years.

onion_rings_addict · 2023-09-15T15:44:39+00:00

I had someone here tell me that it's not masculine to follow instructions during sex

"go right honey please"
"NO, I'M MASCULINE, I DON'T FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS FROM A WOMAN"

"ok but that's my leg"

Worldly-Designer1686 · 2023-09-15T13:24:51+00:00

Women choose to sleep with men they want.Those men don't care about their pleasure .Women -Why are all men like this .No ma'am not all men just the guys you find attractive and men getting off doesn't mean sex was good or women are great in bed .It's very easy to get us off

Sad_and_grossed_out · 2023-09-15T16:29:37+00:00

I don't know why men act like they are helpless in figuring out how to pleasure a woman, it's 2023 we have the internet. There's so many tutorials and manuals and instructionals on what to do with a pussy. You don't even need a woman in bed to walk you through their anatomy, there's tons of information out there.

When I first started having sex I did all kinds of research on how to do bjs, where the pressure points of pleasure are on a male, etc. Why can't men do the same? You shouldn't have to rely on a woman to walk you through how a clit and g-spot work, you need to do your homework and learn a little about it first.

One of the things I loved about my husband was that he knew exactly what to do, because he did the research. He got me to orgasm in like 4 minutes, which was insane most men don't bother to learn how to do that.

There's no excuses at this point in the age of information.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-09-15T15:06:41+00:00

I don't actually think a lot of men do think about sex in terms of satisfying women, but satisfying themselves and might think women should enjoy it as a happy byproduct. Men are often told very clearly and simply do not try. They usually don't ask which they would if they were the slightest bit interested.

Asatmaya · 2023-09-15T13:46:09+00:00

The orgasm gap

I mean, guys can only get off a few times, there's just no way to catch up...

nikkihiller · 2023-09-15T15:00:56+00:00

Honestly, I use to tell the women around me not to be too friendly with men

63daddy · 2023-09-15T16:48:01+00:00

I have known many women who had far more orgasms than any men ever could. I also know a women who has absolutely no interest in sex at all. Many women lose interest in sex after menopause. This difference has nothing to do with men, it’s a difference between the women that’s the issue.

I also think it’s missing the point to compare orgasms. The real question is whether or not people are satisfied with their sex lives. If a woman has no interest in sex or orgasms then it’s not a problem for her if she has less than the average man.

There are far more sex toys sold to women than to men. Women have far more access to sex, if they want it. Women have the opportunity to have lots of orgasms, the issue is more about ability and desire.

Aromatic_Ad5473 · 2023-09-16T01:43:19+00:00

The orgasm gap would be smaller if women communicated, and then men didn’t judge them for it.

2023-09-16T06:04:24+00:00

Who cares that there is an orgasm gap? There is a gap in workplace fatality but we talk more about the orgasm gap?

global_scamartist · 2023-09-16T09:12:29+00:00

Have you ever considered some men are just selfish and don’t want to spend time listening and figuring it out? After they’re done they do other things and go to sleep or make excuses. This isn’t uncommon. When it’s a constant behavior you have to basically make the choice to leave that because no woman likes being with a man who’s selfish sexually

atryhardrooster · 2023-09-16T11:03:35+00:00

Sounds like a skill issue

Epiphanic_Eros · 2023-09-16T14:18:31+00:00

Everyone should communicate better and clearer.

Go read She Comes First and Come as You Are and be part of the solution

According_Smoke_6164 · 2023-09-17T05:52:07+00:00

The generalization smh

NothingOrAllLife · 2023-09-18T22:56:47+00:00

Women that starfish aren’t trying to orgasm, they are letting someone have sex with them.

lwfstryc9 · 2023-09-15T15:36:52+00:00

A lot of women really don't do much in bed. Even when they are on top, I'm doing a lot of the work. I think a lot of women would be served well to become a more active participant.

Ainsleygz · 2023-09-15T13:48:51+00:00

These kind of posts would be less if men used the search bar

Nice-Breadfruit-6795 · 2023-09-15T14:13:51+00:00

The problem is much bigger than what you described. Most young women don't even know how to get themselves off and are actively discouraged from learning how. It's not obvious, and so many women are brought up being told not to touch themselves and to completely shut out feelings of arousal.

You can't expect women to communicate their needs when they don't even know what they need. The issue starts much earlier with the parents. Age appropriate sex ed that is inclusive of the topic of self pleasure is necessary.

obviousredflag · 2023-09-15T14:26:40+00:00

Women hold the power in sex. "get me off before you get to put your penis inside me". Orgasm gap = solved.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2023-09-15T16:59:51+00:00

Nah i think the orgasm gap is just biological. Plenty of women are lazy and selfish in bed, but a penis rubbing inside a vagina will still get 90% of men off.

MistyMaisel · 2023-09-15T17:30:03+00:00

Buddy, we wish. I've tried to teach several men how to kiss and was both proactive and verbal, they wouldn't listen, they assumed they know better. I'm just the one they're mashing their face against, how could I know better.

My current man loves me to pieces and we still took awhile to work things out in part because he believed I'd just like the stuff his other girlfriends "liked". (I assume many of them were lying to him). And because when I said things I liked, he wouldn't listen. And he's a good and loving man, but like most of you, he's watched a bit too much porn and when he gets in the moment he isn't always thinking about what I'm asking for.

I can't even imagine a misogynistic man, although clearly other ladies can. But my suspicion is that a man who doesn't like or respect women lacks the tools internally to please them at all sexually. And he lacks the drive to as well.

Excellent_Badger123 · 2023-09-16T05:55:24+00:00

What about the “orgasm gap” the other way? Men get one at a time…women can have 100+ in succession.

roger61962 · 2023-09-15T14:46:44+00:00

Women that are really into a man orgasm easily even from only intercourse.

If she is dripping wet and does not want any foreplay and wants it "hard" you know she is into you.

The orgasms are a lot harder and longer then.

But this is only my experience.

WYenginerdWY · 2023-09-15T18:31:55+00:00

Not even a little. The average man reacts to being given instructions during sex like a toddler being told to put on a coat. Pouty tantrum.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2023-09-16T00:29:21+00:00

no. i dont want to see a man again that i have to teach how to want to please me enthusiastically. ill just go get another one

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Sillysheila · 2023-09-15T22:28:40+00:00

The only women that lie there starfish style are usually women that have incredibly low sex drives. They are not going to care about the orgasm gap. They’re usually the ones that wonder why other women like sex.

Women are not taught to prioritise their sexual needs. Up until very recently there wasn’t even much discussion on female pleasure and orgasm. It’s a very recent thing from the sexual revolution. There are still a lot of women and men that view it as more an optional extra.

Plus sometimes people DO communicate to men, but men just don’t hear them. I mean it’s still a very common belief that making a woman orgasm depends on having the biggest penis and having PIV with her when for a lot of women that doesn’t work. I’ve discussed it up and down on this subreddit but it’s still hard for many people to believe this. It’s very ingrained in us from porn, folk knowledge etc.

fucksiclepizza · 2023-09-15T23:55:59+00:00

If you know what you're doing then no women will be starfishing.

CombinationMore4630 · 2023-09-15T13:47:15+00:00

I mean don't fuck prudes?

Or learn to be a fuck machine. Then you just do your thing and that's enough.

The best though was this chick I used to fuck who waited for me to cum so she could get off after I finished but was still inside her. She'd rub one out when I was still inside while doggying

pterry-dactl · 2023-09-15T19:04:32+00:00

Yet lesbians don't seem to have this problem.

ImpossibleSquish · 2023-09-16T08:59:14+00:00

Women would communicate more if they weren't raised to be people pleasers.

Starfish women are either a) not that into you or b) pillow princesses, who have a responsibility to be self aware and find themselves a stone top to partner with.

I honestly think most star fish are either people pleasing due to how they were raised or are having duty sex.

The only ones I look down upon are the pillow princesses that lack self awareness. Nothing wrong wrong with pillow princesses in general, but it's a niche dynamic and they should be giving people a heads up. I wouldn't hop into bed with someone without first warning them I'm a masochist

Mrs_Drgree · 2023-09-15T14:02:44+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Correct-Warthog-9061 · 2023-09-15T14:23:34+00:00

Another thing is making a orgasm too much of a goal, abd then u get faked orgasms. We just gon go with the flow and see what happens

purplish_possum · 2023-09-15T15:07:51+00:00

A woman who constantly barks directions can find someone else. I'm not interested.

stromyoloing · 2023-09-15T15:21:38+00:00

True

Generally_Confused1 · 2023-09-15T15:53:23+00:00

I usually have to initiate asking them about it and be proactive. I actually have a "new partner questionnaire" that they can fill out so I have an idea of what they like and it includes things like love languages too lol.

All that being said, this is what you get when you have an autistic engineer interested in sex and sexual pleasure and heavily involved in the BDSM community where we "negotiate" lol. I still have a few books I need to go through like "come as your are" "she comes first" "the way of the superior man" "urban tantra" etc as I like to proactively learn to understand things.

Communication is important but even more so is putting in effort. A lot of women aren't great at communicating, a lot of men aren't great at putting in effort. It happens lol

KamuiObito · 2023-09-15T16:17:39+00:00

This applies to alot of things in life with them tbh..you just can’t criticize them or theirs decisions that dont help anyone.

RonMexico432 · 2023-09-15T16:23:31+00:00

Seems like if you know sex is on the table you might want to find out her likes and dislikes beforehand. Shrug

pagan6990 · 2023-09-15T17:27:34+00:00

I used to believe the same way you did. Then two things happened. Had a best friend who’s divorce and dating a lot tell me that at least half the women he slept with complimented him on how attentive he was to their needs and how he listened to them when told what they liked. He thought it was just them plaguing to his ego but they elaborated on what they experienced he realized they were being honest

All the stories I’ve read her and on other sites from women complaining about men not caring if they orgasm or what they like in bed.

I don’t know how many of these men there are out there but it’s gotta be a significant amount. Which blows my mind because even in my young single days when I had a lot of one night stands I always tried to make sure the woman enjoyed herself.

MotherPermit9585 · 2023-09-15T17:57:21+00:00

I definitely agree that sex is more pleasurable for women who communicate what they like. I always talk about sex, what I like/what I don’t like, my boundaries, and what I’d be interested in trying before I’m ever alone with a man. I also ask them about their sexual proclivities. This helps me weed out so many potential partners that I know wouldn’t be compatible with me. It also helps to weed out men that may try to transgress boundaries… usually there’s warning signs/red flags by their comments. It makes our first sexual encounter together so much smoother and more enjoyable.

I disagree that misogynistic men care about sexually satisfying women though. Myron from Fresh and Fit actually said that female orgasms are useless and he doesn’t care if women get off. He did get ridiculed for it though lol.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TRfHH6ts9Y4

Shenaniboozle · 2023-09-15T19:27:46+00:00

while she didnt starfish...

"what works best for you?"

"thats for you to find out!"

oh no. thats some, "your princess is in another castle" bs.

TreeSweden · 2023-09-15T20:09:00+00:00

And women should accept that sex is not a need for them and not a right even when they are disadvantaged. It is of course sad not to have an orgasm during sex, but this also applies to all other people who do not have an orgasm during sex for any other reason

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-09-15T21:49:56+00:00

Yes but he has to actually listen, and not just for like two seconds. You may think “well that’s easy most men want to please their women.” And also yes, but never underestimate how much men hate listening to women.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-09-15T22:16:28+00:00

If women are starfishing for you they aren't that into it
Actually as you get more experience I'd say your concern with sexual satisfaction of your partner goes down, if anything. You're just there to have a good time especially if it's a one off encounter.
Idk for me the communicating or being told what to do turns me off in the moment tbh.

q_dice · 2023-09-15T23:26:50+00:00

I'm gonna b honest I c a lot of women say they try to communicate this and most saying their partners don't listen. So it could b both

Wolvengirla88 · 2023-09-16T00:16:21+00:00

It is the responsibility of both parties to communicate. It is the responsibility of both parties to create safety and to make sure that they are listening to each other. If a woman does not feel safe to communicate honestly, that is a man’s failure as much as hers. If a man does not listen, they both need to change.

The real problem is posts like this one trying to assign blame to one party or the other. If two people have sex, they need to both take responsibility for offering each other pleasure. They need to set their minds and be determined to get it right. If it doesn’t work, they need to both acknowledge accountability.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-09-16T01:39:28+00:00

The orgasm gap could be lessened with the right socialization. But sex and sexual expectations and interactions are complex. There are reasons, if not always good ones, why people do what they do. 'Fixing' any one thing is not simple.

Fuzzherp · 2023-09-16T03:35:06+00:00

I think that this is attacking a symptom not the root.
Being raised female you are less likely to be encouraged to explore your sexual identity. Female sexual identity is avoided in media, and even your peers will attack you for exploratory behavior.
A lot of either done know their bodies, or feel discouraged/embarrassed about sharing. I had to deconstruct a lot in my 20s.
Additionally a lot of the gap comes from men lacking interest in helping their partner achieve orgasm.
That being said, we could do better as a society if people felt less shame around discussing sex.

CountMandrake · 2023-09-16T05:29:50+00:00

I don't know what happen to some women but I swear some even have problems telling me if they finish or not. Why is that?

I'm quite good in the sack, and very giving (and I'm not compensating mind you, I just love eating pussy) but I must admit I'm not the best at getting signals. I can tell if they are having a good time and if they are close, but I mean... I have no way to tell if they had it already or what, I'm dumb as a rock when it comes to it.

It doesn't help that I'm on the bigger side and as soon as I go deep they stop breathing and make these weird faces and if I ask them if they are fine, if they like it, if I go deeper or slower, they are like "shhh" or "you're ruining it" or put their hands on my mouth?

"Communication is key"... Really? Gimme a fucking break.

I guess they like it because they keep coming for more, but I wouldn't mind some instructions you know.

sweetbrown89 · 2023-09-16T08:59:32+00:00

Communicating what I like will never mean anything when men actively ignore what we want and insist that they know better than we do

Look at the comments

Some men are vocal about “if a woman tells me what she wants me to do, I’m turned off / not interested”

Men usually don’t really care if women are having a good time for sex…and then they wonder why we’re not begging to have it

BackAgain12345678910 · 2023-09-17T00:43:00+00:00

Women will never not expect things to magically happen to them. Because things magically happen to them. Men pursue them, so in their mind “it happened organically” when in reality, It took one of us to have the courage, and know how to court her.

Most of the manifestation bs, tarot card readings, horoscope things, all female supported.

They’re like kids. They believe in magic.

Repulsive-Yoghurt-71 · 2023-09-17T01:52:39+00:00

No it would go away if women would take control of their own orgasm

Sabrepill · 2023-09-17T04:44:47+00:00

I once had a woman tell me she needs to be fisted with my whole hand, and then fucked at a particular angle right afterwards in order to cum. It sounded ridiculous but I listened to her and she literally squirted everywhere and was basically in love with me after that. Women who don’t say anything keep you guessing. Every woman is so different in what they like

Title	The orgasm gap would be smaller if women took the time to communicate their needs instead of expecting things to magically happen to them
Author	Novel-Tip-7570
Upvotes	229
Comments	346
Date	September 15, 2023 1:18 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/16jd7lp/the_orgasm_gap_would_be_smaller_if_women_took_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-orgasm-gap-would-be-smaller-if-women-took-the.1231913 https://theredarchive.com/post/1231913

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