Being a traditional woman doesn’t mean you don’t have standards.

katana236 · 2024-05-09T20:53:06+00:00

I think women have always selected for looks, money and status.

Difference is now women have their own money and status wise they tend to be even with most men.

The standard has always been "be better than me somehow or at the very least be on my level". That was much easier to accomplish when women weren't making shit.

However that doesn't mean that being a standard woman is somehow bad. We just need to acknowledge the mess it makes in the dating market and think of good ways we can fix some of these issues. Ways we can all agree on. No need to force anyone back in the kitchen.

Sad_and_grossed_out · 2024-05-09T20:48:01+00:00

Most men who say they want a traditional wife could absolutely never afford to properly keep one, especially with kids without subjecting them to poverty or worse. Most of them would also end up resenting one, throwing the whole "you're worthless cuz you don't bring in income" every time there is a conflict. But if she did work he'd resent her for being a boss bitch and not taking care of the kids at home. There's no win for women when dealing with men like this, no matter how high of standards she has.

Commercial_Tea_8185 · 2024-05-09T21:32:06+00:00

I feel like I dont even really understand what people mean by ‘traditional’ vs ‘modern’ women.

Is there an analogue of ‘traditional’ vs ‘modern’ men?

When I hear these terms, vague stereotypes pop into my head. But I cant imagine how anyone could ever actually be these roles

Irys-likethe-Eye · 2024-05-09T22:23:44+00:00

If anything I think being "traditional" means you have even higher standards to check off in certain columns and they have to be confirmed much quicker if not preemptively and/or immediately. There is no wiggle room either. How are you going to be considered husband material if you can't demonstratively prove you can provide? The expectation of ultimate and generous financial support is clearly going to be a given if you expect to be a sahw/sahm. While "modern" women, if you become one household, generally expect you to contribute equally to the support of the household, not sustain it entirely on your own while also providing quality of life allowances in the form of luxuries and gifts. Because you better believe your traditional wife expects that and more. She expects to never ever have to worry about money even when you die. It's your job to handle that. The home is her domain so yes the kitchen needs to be refurbished and so does the guest bathroom. The dining set is scratched, she's already picked out another one and it's bigger so that's good. She has spent $478 on perennials! Doesn't the yard look pretty?! She expects you to be happy about this because long as you are doing your job she gets to do hers without worry.

I think a lot of guys harping on about traditional being better than modern don't really understand how miserable their lives can become when not only is there no safety net for them but they are the only safety net for their family. When your lovely and traditional domestic goddess starts holding you to task because you are not doing your job properly and providing to the level you should be what's gonna happen then? When you are struggling to cover the bills and fund her home projects because the home is her whole world, when your children have extracurriculars and you have to pay for ballet, football, cheerleading, a new flute and the French club class trip because if they don't do these things is she even a good mother? When the family reunion is coming up, and you cannot take time off of work, the car needs repair, the cost of flying is prohibitive and there's no family to stay with so you'll have to get a hotel room and the whole family absolutely has to go because great uncle Albert is probably not going to make it another year.

Traditional women expect way more from their husbands. Modern women want a partner and if you think that's too much to expect and accommodate, trust me, you are not even close to being able to be a traditional husband.

63daddy · 2024-05-09T22:27:36+00:00

You are conflating different concepts. Saying modern women have high standards doesn’t mean traditional women are attracted to unattractive McDonald’s workers.

spanglesandbambi · 2024-05-09T20:45:39+00:00

Listen, some people moan as it's uncomfortable to say hey, the issue with this might be me.

That's not just a man thing. For every woman's standards are too high, we have all the good men are gone. Same things different gender. Remember, this sub and the whole of reddit are more male vs. female users, so you may see more male based ideas purely due to who uses reddit.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-05-09T21:39:39+00:00

they aren't talking about "traditional women", they have some fictitious belief that women weren't selective in the 90s

Tricky_Dog1465 · 2024-05-10T20:57:52+00:00

My standard is simple, I'm not bringing any man into my life unless he can somehow make my life better. Whether that be laughter, kindness, whatever.

Lilrip1998 · 2024-05-09T20:35:34+00:00

You can’t win either way tbh. Holding out for wealthy men is “gold digging” in this neighborhood. Lmao

FreitasAlan · 2024-05-09T22:07:15+00:00

I don’t think men who like traditional women like them because them because they have lower standards. Unless they are delusional. I think they like them because they think it’s actually worth meeting their standards in the sense that they’re given something back for the effort.

Unhappy_Offer_1822 · 2024-05-09T23:21:17+00:00

Traditional and modern don't really make sense to me. I'm more of a "future-focused" and "innovator" type woman I guess if that is a thing

Doumekitsu · 2024-05-10T04:04:36+00:00

to me, being traditional is more of an inner vibe (thoughts and attitude) than the stuff people see on the outside even though i agree that people who aren't traditional prefer living their lives differently. i would consider myself as a traditional gen z (not red-pilled nor a right winger). i just love men who take care of me genuinely. i would love to be a wife some day (but not a mother). i am building my own career and won't be depending on my husband/boyfriend for money. i wouldn't prefer getting married in my 20s but in my 30s. i'm not very religious (i only believe in god and i pray, and that's all; i don't go to church) but i do tend to dress more traditionally (like not wearing outfits that show too much skin).

i don't know why i have this weird mix. maybe that's how a 21st centry traditional girl looks like. they have their own ways to be traditional. people deem me as a trad girl the first time they see me and let me tell you, that attracts a lot of mean, misogynistic, andrew tate apologist type of men (i know those aren't decent traditional men, they are degenerates and dysfunctional psychos). i hate it. but when they get to know me, they are surprised to see my povs about stuff. then, they start hating me and leave lol. maybe this is because how my extremely religious family shaped me vs how i wanted to be different from them.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-05-10T13:48:25+00:00

Traditional women are a lot pickier because that means they need a man who makes enough to support a family on one income, and wants to. A lot of guys who want “traditional” women are not up to the task, like this passport bro in this funny clip. I’m sure there are plenty who aren’t that dumb, but many guys who think they want a traditional woman still end up being resentful of them, like what happened to Lauren Southern.

Now in the past, it was easier to support a family on a single income, so it was easier to be a traditional man than it is now. But that doesn’t mean it was easier than being a modern man, the requirements were just different. And you can’t replicate the lifestyle of the past in a modern economy even if both people want that.

obviousredflag · 2024-05-09T22:07:01+00:00

Everyone gets what they can attract to a LTR. Your standards are irrelevant. A low desirability woman is going to make due with a low desirability man. Modern or traditional is not making a difference. People with standards higher than their desirability are not in committed romantic relationships.

Choice-Substance-183 · 2024-05-09T21:34:52+00:00

So what exactly is the difference between modern and traditional women’s standards?

From my observations of the discourse in this sub......

Traditional women = are allowed to choose/frequently chosen. They receive a bit more respect because of her deemed "goodness" (femininity).

Modern women = need to settle for the nearest single man seeking a woman for any means. ONS, FWB, LTR, etc. If a man wants LTR from a modern woman, she better be prepared to settle. She won't get a "Chad" man to commit.

It's not their standards as it is the perception of what some PPD men think modern or traditional women deserve.

bluestjuice · 2024-05-09T20:53:11+00:00

I think the conceit is that ‘traditional’ women held men to important, meaningful standards like being honest and dependable, while modern women hold men to shallow trivial standards like being tall and handsome.

I don’t think this holds up, both because modern women clearly also care about honesty, dependability, and other sorts of virtue, and because historically admonitions against women choosing husbands foolishly due to affection for their charms or beauty rather than prudently with an eye for their quality are abundant.

Neptune-Jnr · 2024-05-10T01:50:50+00:00

I think the "Women's standards are too high" discussion and "Traditional Women are awesome" discussion are separate talking points.

alebruto · 2024-05-10T19:22:38+00:00

* Traditional women tend to have higher standards;

* Modern women tend to have more superficial standards;

The problem is that people use "high" and "superficial" as if they were the same thing, but they aren't. Then communication becomes complicated. Shallow standards place appearance and money requirements far above any personality requirements, while high standards are balanced (and bad personality becomes a turn off)

A traditional woman wouldn't be catfished with ChadFishing, on the other hand the modern woman wouldn't care that Chad is a pedophile Nazi.

AryanzHail · 2024-05-10T00:19:27+00:00

see i think the answer to this whole debate is just very simple!
They weren't trained for this!!
it's just happening too fast!! and they'd just ended cramming the answer sheets!! now you tell them you've changed the question paper even if from the same books and subjects??
obviously they hate it!! they're not ready! they don't have any answers! no one told them how to make sandwiches when the wife is not in the kitchen!! so yeah.. that's just it! i don't think they hate the concept of "modern women" as much.. cuz inherently tbh? they never loved the idea of traditional women when that was... so yeah!! they're just angry cuz they're now clueless and don't know what to do either with the switched roles, free time, shared responsibilities, shared finances, someone who voices their issues etc.,
(Not a Rant)

TheHumanDamaged · 2024-05-09T22:13:20+00:00

At least “traditional” women have something to offer in exchange for those standards.

peteypete78 · 2024-05-09T20:37:28+00:00

traditional women aren’t lining up at average, unattractive McDonald’s workers’

Who says they were?

stormiu · 2024-05-09T23:19:02+00:00

Yeah I’ve seen basically this same post on the sun a few times now and it’s pretty much always the same.

A non trad woman’s idea of a traditional woman and a man’s view of a traditional woman are two VASTLY different things, and without fail these posts don’t seem to even realize that what they are bringing up is horribly bias flawed.

I’m not expert in trad relationships, but it’s still an interesting and bizarre pattern to see.

Letsbeclear1987 · 2024-05-09T21:46:46+00:00

I chose to get fat, and see how much that impacts the situation. I own and operate a small business in the medical field adjacent, cook better than your momma, clean and organized, low body count, love animals and kids and effectively manage friendships, no drama, and I’m not gonna argue with you. That’s a 10. If getting fat means all of that means nothing, then you’ve lied to yourself AND me. I’m losing it quickly, but intentionally gaining weight showed me where his motives are and what I can expect in future. Broke it off and realized what I had built up in my head didn’t line up with his actions 100%, I remembered a lesson I already learned and forgot : words mean nothing when you don’t back them up consistently, and when it’s hard. I deserve success as much as anyone else, and part of my success as a person means a loving relationship. I would rather be celibate forever than trade me self respect for a little time being thrown around the bedroom by somebody who actually wants the slut instead of the gem. Yall are some confusing inconsistent mfs, I’m about to go against my instincts and change up completely

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ur-moms-new-gf · 2024-05-09T20:53:07+00:00

we're all technically modern women. the problem is that we have the average modern woman and the "tradwife" current. some are true to what they believe, most are women who grew up in problematic backgrounds, have a history of trauma or a twisted education and believe they need to cater to men's wishes to be deserving of validation, love and respect. so they make themselves an ideal of purity and hold themselves to traditional women's standards (or at least their romantic cottagecore instagram pinterest board idea of it) while holding their partners to little. they pretend to be that strange far-right wet dream in order to earn their share of attention from delusional, frustrated men. it's the flip coin to women who believe sexual labor to men and earning sexual attention performatively is the only way to earn anything at all, affection, care... they don't see they're both being exploited. on top of that, they try to bring other women down by calling eachother "sluts" or "prudes" to make themselves feel better.

it's really hard to truly reenact the whole "traditional marriage" deal specially in healthy marriages, mostly because those were arranged and those couples most of the time didn't even like eachother; women couldn't work and as such they needed marriage. and even then, you wouldn't come up to the village's most beautiful woman's family, offer a chicken and expect to be accepted when the colonel were offering land and wealth. you'd have to settle for the woman whose family accepts a chicken, if any at all.

nowadays any actual trad woman, at least a smart one, either comes from a wealthy family or has a career of her own so she can look for a man or have something to catch her in case her marriage fails. for a woman to be a nurturer she needs a provider, and for a man to be a provider most of the time he has to 1- provide her with a similar lifestyle she already has 2- provide for their children. that sounds like higher standards than the average woman, actually.

Haunting-Run-5346 · 2024-05-10T12:30:33+00:00

traditional == fear of the unknown

fools_errand49 · 2024-05-10T18:19:28+00:00

Agreed. This is absolutely true. The difference however is that traditional women offer something men actually want besides pussy where modern women don't. Basically a man looks at the two as a high end luxury at a high end luxury price and, low end product also at a high end luxury price. Obviously the low quality product is overpriced if it is being sold for the same price as a high quality item. Hence the complaints about modern womens' high standards that you don't see directed at traditional women.

Killthefight69 · 2024-05-19T02:46:14+00:00

I visit a Christian Orthdox dating club in Russia because my GF used to attend it, its a bunch of 35-40 year old women all waiting for Church Chad, when there are TENS of men offering them commitment with no sex before marriage AND marriage itself within 2-3 months.

Sandjota · 2024-05-09T22:55:12+00:00

Traditional women seek character qualities in men and settle for nothing less. These type of qualities include being a man of integrity, selflessness, respectfulness, loyalty, is understanding, empathetic, genorous, etc. When women value these type of charachteristics they actually find high value men by doing this.

Modern women are more superficial and seek out surface level charachteristics such as how tall a man is, how much money they have, if they seem fun and exciting, how experienced they are in relationships, etc. These type of women are seeking a certain type of guy, that is also rare, but these are not high value men. They are men who might bring short term fun. But long term losers

Sure_Tourist1088 · 2024-05-10T00:03:41+00:00

Traditional women don't seem to be as laser focused on looks and income as your average city-dwelling 6/10. A guy who keeps himself in reasonable shape and has a decent enough job is fine for a traditional woman. He doesn't need to have walked off the cover of GQ and be pulling in six figures a month just to date some physical non event in the accounting team. That's the difference, and it ain't small.

WanabeInflatable · 2024-05-09T22:22:51+00:00

Trad women are certainly worse (subjectively).

The problem with (some) modern women is that they also want perk of traditional women while being all that independent and empowered.

DeJuanBallard · 2024-05-09T23:27:27+00:00

Keep trying to tell my brothers, you are not going to be happy, but you can provide happiness to others, the physical realm is built on suffering and you must go through adversity to grow. The archons are gonna get their negative energy one way or another. Play the role, die honorably and escape this prison.

VWGUYWV · 2024-05-09T23:47:49+00:00

Why do all the way from top earners to burger flippers? Seems like a huge false dichotomy. Traditional women that wanted marriage at least didn't sleep around a butt ton and were more likely to know their relationship value and pick a match. There aren't many traditional women that are 5s not settling until a man much more attractive than them comes along.

Ok_Individual · 2024-05-10T03:12:31+00:00

This sub is rife with menfolk who swear up and down that “modern women’s” standards are too high, but as far as I can tell, traditional women aren’t lining up at average, unattractive McDonald’s workers’ doorsteps.

The answer is that men do not want to do the work it takes to be in a traditional relationship with a modern woman. Many modern women still expect a man to act traditional in many ways, and it's just not worth it to be traditional as a man when you are not in a relationship with a traditional woman.

I can understand if a traditional woman has high standards for men because she is willing to give up many things in her life for the man she gets into a relationship with.

slackforce · 2024-05-09T20:38:15+00:00

I don't agree with that mentality (all women hate short guys, left or right) but I think the idea is that 'traditional' women would at least adhere to 'traditional' sexual/romantic norms. As in, they still have high standards but they're not fucking a new guy every other week like most young women.

UnhappyInevitable680 · 2024-05-09T20:56:23+00:00

I think having a trad wife scenario is unrealistic in this economy but I think men still want feminine women and that’s the main part of the trad wife dynamic they want

Cablepussy · 2024-05-10T00:11:09+00:00

You are correct about “traditional women” having higher standards than regular women; there are a few key differences however.

The thing about “traditional women” is that they’re consistent; relative to “modern women “.

The government, economy, and society for a while now have made it near impossible for the average man to become a “traditional man” in the full sense of the term.

Sure you can have the same beliefs and live the life but few men can actually afford to happily live & support a “traditional woman” (whether that was intentional along with the dissolution of the nuclear family we will never know).

Being a “traditional woman” usually encapsulates certain traits that I will try to list:

•Loyal

•Agreeable & “submissive”

•peacemaker

•More conservative leaning

•Potentially low body count

•Doesn’t engage in bear vs man group-think

•Doesn’t dress like she’s at home while outside

•Doesn’t keep male “best friends”

The above traits are why I think men would look for a “traditional woman” specifically. Of course they also have traits like taking care of themselves, etc that modern or less traditional women have.

So it’s not so much what “traditional women” do as it is what they don’t do that modern women do.

Nobody wants to date and or marry women who lie and say Lizzie is beautiful and then slap people when you say they look like her.

Nobody wants to date and or marry women who bring more fights than peace to the home.

Nobody wants to date and or marry women who want a traditional man but refuse to be a traditional woman.

Hell the most traditional and conservative of women will make a man wait til marriage before they have sex, men hate that but if she’s a virgin, meaning she’s consistent they will wait.

Men in general at least in 2024 US of A don’t really want a traditional man & woman relationship, they just don’t want modern women and their antics; they resent and despise the inconsistency and hypocrisy of (western)women.

TallFoundation7635 · 2024-05-10T05:06:59+00:00

There is nuance to this. Every woman has standards including traditional modern women, the difference is that traditional women with a low body count have standards that are justified. No sane person is going to lampoon an attractive 21 year old virgin that wants a high status male.

Modern, only fans thots do not have standards that can be justified. You can't be 30 years old with your bootyhole out on the internet and expect to marry a 6 foot 3 millionaire without getting roasted.

It is super odd to me how any view point that isn't "women are perfect angels that do no wrong" is so unfairly caricaturized.

Horned-Beast · 2024-05-10T15:19:49+00:00

I agree to a point, but lets clarify what you mean about "traitional" wives.

There is a huge difference between westernized "traditional wives" and wives born and taught from birth to be traditional, example women men seek internationally from say the Phillipines or Thailand for instance. Contrary to what most western women believe, these women hold men they are seeking relationships with to a much higher standard as a husband than western women do. The big difference is what those men as husbands get in return.

Lets look closer at western wives first. Men first off rarely get thanked for anything they do that those wives consider "basic". Take out the trash? Why should they get a thanks? Get up early with the kids on Saturday to let her sleep in? Hey she deserves that! no thanks needed! Then in most cases they are argumentative, combative, demanding and want a lifestyle not a relationship.

She doesn't just want a car, she NEEDS a BMW or Mercedes! Do not forget she has to get $500+ dollar nails done per week and $1000+ hair, mani and pedi appt! If he gets up and makes coffee? Oh hell no she HAS to get her daily Starbucks! Regular coffee just won't do! Birthday dinners had better be at the BEST most expensive restaurant in a tri state area! Presents? oh regular makeup won't do it has to be from Sephora! and jewelry! 50K engagements rings and 500k weddings ONLY!

Then they bitch and moan about having to raise the children,. He better take over after working 10 to 12 hours and do NOT question her solo weekends and nights out with the girls! She needs her alone time! Oh and do not forget the solo vacations with the girls to Vegas or Dubai twice a year! Do NOT expect home cook meals! You best be bringing home something. Sex? Oh no shes too tired, he will just have to wait until next month maybe. She is just mentally and emotionally not into it right now. But he be damned if he masturbates, watches porn or god forbid his eyes wander to an instagram post BUT she can post all kinds of thirst trap pictures and he better not question her! It is her body after all if she wants to share it with the entire world!

Basically they can demand anything and no one should question it, put themselves above the entire family, behave the way they want, dress and act they way they want be able to spend what they want and the world be damned.

This is a westernized idea of traditional.

Now actual traditional wives are the exact opposite. They want loving families and husbands who respect them. And in return they will treat those men and families like they are the center of the universe. Come home for work and offer to cook? Hell no go relax shoo! get out of the kitchen. He helps with clean up? OMG he deserves a big hug and kiss and affection and boy his night will get good when the bedroom door closes. Make her a coffee? OHHH big hug and kiss and maybe a surprise oral thank you! Take her out? No restaurant needed, lets do a picnic at the beach or nearby park please!

Hair needs cut? Oh don't worry my friend, relative, sister or salon down the street will take care of it and only 60 bucks! Nails? no, they will get in the way of things I need to do. Work? oh hell she will make sure to help the family. It isn't His money is theirs and her money is hers. EVERYTHING is used for the betterment of the FAMILY as a whole. Wedding? small ceremony with family is fine and any ring it is the commitment they want not the bling. (Thai women are different in this to be fair, they really enjoy the bling). Instagram? only the most reserved postings and family pictures to be posted. Sex? Oh boy anytime he wants and unless illness is involved that man will have his world flipped upside down.

They are rarely argumentative but will be very capable of discussing important matters with the husband without being a total bitch about it. If he gets out of line? Oh she will have no hesitation to quickly but quietly and privately let him know where and when he stepped across a line. Do it again and embarrass her and make no mistake those claws will come out. They want family vacations, not solo trips. They will not care about having girls trips or weekends. They will prefer family outings and even including extended families which are important to them.

The difference to the men is night and day. It is the difference of living in a modern hell or a modern safe haven. Their homes become their oasis in the storm of daily life. While with modern westernized homes it is nothing but battle zone central the majority of the time.

Yes traditional wives have high standards and rightfully so. BUT the biggest difference is what the husbands receive in return. Most of the complaints you read on this forum revolved around the western ideal of traditional. Sorry but those are not and never will be considered real traditional wives. Their body counts alone are now in triple digits before they reach 30 and are so drama and trauma filled men just do NOT want to deal with the toxic results.

Mental_Leek_2806 · 2024-05-09T23:00:06+00:00

They are too high, they are genuinely insane. Have you ever considered what percentage of men in their low 20's earn significantly more than their female counterparts, are over 6ft, are handsome, drive a nice car and don't live at home?

Seriously think about that, women genuinely seem incapable of accepting just how little that % is, seriously factor in all those basic requirements young women have then throw in preferences and we're talking maybe 2-3% absolute max?

Meanwhile young men just want girls that are sweet to them, with a preference of them not being obese or promiscuous.

Women's standards aren't too high, they are completely unrealistic

afk_row · 2024-05-09T21:12:39+00:00

Its not necessarily about their standards, its about their personality and world view.

wtknight · 2024-05-09T22:52:39+00:00

[permanently deleted]

KurlyKayla · 2024-05-10T04:30:56+00:00

No woman on this sub is getting a wealthy man. Yall would be lucky to even get a lower six figure earner which is starting not to mean much nowadays

DecisionPlastic9740 · 2024-05-10T06:32:56+00:00

Difference is traditional women have standards based on character. 🫶

boom-wham-slam · 2024-05-09T21:15:28+00:00

I agree but I think the amount of traditional women is so few they don't bother to work hard because they don't think they will get a woman like this anyways.

But either way there are plenty of men who do make significant income and it's still hard for us to find traditional women.

shadowrangerfs · 2024-05-09T20:45:20+00:00

I think the difference between the modern and traditional woman comes down to what the man is getting in return.

I think the men who want the traditional wife like what they would be getting in return for meeting her standards.

They feel that what they would get from a traditional wife is worth having to make 100k a year. They feel that what they get from a modern woman isn't worth having to make 100k a year.

Updawg145 · 2024-05-12T00:03:09+00:00

I agree but the dating “market”, much like the job market, is inflated. Remember how your dad could pay for school working part time and now you need to work three jobs to barely afford an education? Attracting women has similarly inflated to obnoxious levels of difficulty for the average person.

Title	Being a traditional woman doesn’t mean you don’t have standards.
Author	KurlyKayla
Upvotes	100
Comments	334
Date	May 9, 2024 8:28 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1co7414/being_a_traditional_woman_doesnt_mean_you_dont/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/being-a-traditional-woman-doesnt-mean-you-dont.1518026 https://theredarchive.com/post/1518026

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