Question for those that "gave up."

Electric_Death_1349 · 2024-09-14T16:47:26+00:00

I gave up and…that was it; I wasn’t in the game to begin with so everyone else carried on without me. I keep myself to myself and stay out of everyone’s way - I’m unwanted, surplus to requirements, and I just have to live with that

flakybottom · 2024-09-14T17:09:48+00:00

I gave up on pursuing and the endless self improvement hamster wheel about 4 years ago.

What is it about them that makes them unwanted?

Ugly, short, boring, autistic

Why did they become that way?

I was pretty born with these traits and never got along well with other people, especially women.

And, most importantly, what happened to them after they "gave up."

I'm doing a lot better I think. Before I was overworking myself trying to reach some impossible standard and ended up burning out and LDAR.

Aafan_Barbarro · 2024-09-14T15:59:21+00:00

I have given up. I put no effort into dating at all, I fundamentally believe it's pointless for me. I have zero experience at 30+ years of age.

Ok_Cake7513 · 2024-09-14T17:44:06+00:00

I'm a 31 year old virgin who has completely given up since high school. I haven't asked out a woman for the past 15 years.

As for what happened to me after giving up? I'm just working and existing until my eventual death.

balhaegu · 2024-09-15T05:50:04+00:00

Asking men why they gave up on dating & relationships: I'm not good enough for them

Asking women why they gave up on dating & relationships: The men aren't good enough for me

cardboard_pyramid · 2024-09-14T23:45:23+00:00

I’m unattractive and I know I’m unattractive. Some women in my life have felt obliged to remind me of that unprompted. Also I feel like I would just be a burden anyway

GH0STRIDER579 · 2024-09-15T20:08:13+00:00

Put it this way: it would be nice to be in a healthy relationship, just as it would be nice to live in a mansion, drive a Lamborghini or a Ferrari, own a Yacht, have a billion dollars, or fly on private jets. Yet no matter how much I want those things, I will never be able to will it into reality, and relationships are no different because you can't control whether other people are attracted to you or not.

So if the reality is nobody is interested in you, there really is no other option other than to eventually accept it, be stoic about it, and move on with life and enjoy other things which are available to you. Even if I don't have a girlfriend, won't get married, and will never have my own kids and family, there's other things I can do to live a fulfilling life. It's only really a "loss" if you fool yourself into believing these were things available to you in the first place. I never had an opportunity to earn a billion dollars, so I'm not upset about not being a billionaire. Similarly, I shouldn't be upset over being consigned to celibacy because I don't have the opportunity to attract a partner either. The only real difference is I'm biologically hardwired to want a partner and sexual relationship but the same is not true for money. This is why mental discipline and self control becomes so important

Immediate_Wasabi_920 · 2024-09-15T01:46:56+00:00

I gave up after being rejected and ridiculed over my dick size 3 times by 3 women in a row. Final one put the nail in the coffin when she told me to off myself, said she would rather be in a relationship with her ex who physically abused her because at least he had a real dick and went around work (yes she was a colleague) saying she felt SA'd because she didn't like my dick size and her girl friends all jumped the bandwagon and agreed with her.

That was 4 and a half years ago, and I've just stayed off the radar since then. I've never had any looks to back me up, I've always been below the scale of 1 to 10 and the women who gave me a chance all knew they could do better.

Since then I've been alone, I go to work, come home. I've grown to resent women a bit. As a guy does, he sees a woman and thinks "oh she's nice she looks sexy", and I've been reversed by thinking "yeah right don't bother looking she would hate you" and I get that really deep feeling in my stomach like I feel shamefully sick of myself. I've turned to drinking, I have phases of self harm, basically I've just faded off. Gave up seeking any kind of support or any safe space, especially on Reddit, seeing as they continually tell me and lecture me how everything that happend must have been all my fault, this is from women in particular. So there's zero understanding even on a place where most outliers in the world are found.

DumbWordsmith · 2024-09-14T16:59:29+00:00

I gave up after my last relationship, which ended in 2021 (after 6 years). I know I'm an ugly dude, and I don't want to jump through hoops in another mediocre relationship with someone who barely gives a shit about me (though will tell me that she loves me more than anything).

It's exhausting. I no longer have the optimism and naivety to pursue a woman like I did in my 20s, and I know I won't get the type of person I want anyway. I don't have the ability to invest emotionally anymore, and I don't want to help raise another man's children. I wouldn't necessarily run away if the perfect person fell into my lap, but that's not going to happen.

When I took my last ex to visit my family in Eastern Europe, my aunt told my ex (while I was showering) that she should spend her 20s having fun with attractive men instead of settling down so young (23 at the time), because she can always find a guy like me in her 30s. After everything that transpired over the course of that relationship, I will never forget what my aunt said.

Anyway, my neighbor is a 50-something YO who seems to have given up. He has a lot of disposable cash and runs a successful installation business. Overall, he comes off as a happy dude, as he's always going out hunting with his buddies (and giving his neighbors fresh venison and gift cards during the holidays), but I don't know him well enough to tell you what's going on in his head. That said, his property is immaculate. He's short and chubby, so that may have something to do with his singledom — honestly, IDK.

However, there is another man I know who's in his late 40s, and he's someone I look up to. From what I gather, he enjoys the peace and freedom that comes with being single. I can sense he doesn't trust women very much either, but I don't know where that comes from. That said, he's very tall and masculine, so he could've easily gotten married (or had regular flings) if he wanted to IMO. I never asked him why (or when) he gave up, because I really don't care. His zest for life is contagious, and my goal is to be that type of person for the rest of my life.

ChicoBrillo · 2024-09-14T16:16:06+00:00

"Giving up" is a beautiful thing to embrace. A lot of time we don't realize how much pressure we put on ourselves. There's this phantom that lives in our heads of society, or our parents, or peers who are constantly on our asses about not living up to expectations, but nobody does it to us more than ourselves.

You should give up. Give up the idea of the mold you're trying to fit into. Give up your idea of success. See who you actually are underneath it all.

You may find that your desires are not your own, they are desires you inherited from others. Relationships, marriage, the white picket fence etc. are all put on such pedestals, but guess what, you don't magically change when you cross that threshold.

I just accepted being single my whole life and a disappointment to everyone. Ironically that's where I found my power. Now I am traveling, living a comfortable life, and have an awesome relationship I never once thought I'd have.

So I say you should give up. Because you're not playing the right game.

NotReallyTired_ · 2024-09-14T23:42:47+00:00

I just stopped pursuing and putting in effort. The hurdles and trails are so high that it's absurd and unreasonable.

I have a good grasp of where I stood with girls since I was a teen. Not just from a few rejections, but observation and hanging out with them. I knew the type of boys they loved and I was not one of them. I'm as average as it gets. So I focused a lot more on the my hobbies and friends to keep my mind off. Until I finished HS, and I decided to put in effort and work to attract women. From my appearance to how I present myself.

Started getting dates when I was in college, and what I mean is droplets... like once or twice a year. But it was a cycle where I would meet a women, sparks flying everywhere, things are clicking, go on a fun first date, make-out (only one time I had sex on the first date), text other about how fun and exciting everything was, and finally like a flick of a switch they disappear or give me the "I'm sorry but it's not gonna workout" text after a while. And that cycle only happens when all the planets line up and the big man upstairs in the clouds decides to throw me a bone, like a charity case. Most of the time I'm stuck in a desert.

But what REALLY made me throw in the towel was that as I got older, my dating options just gotten worse where I'm surrounded by bitter, jaded, traumatized women with princess/goddess complex who only views me as the man who pays their bills. Every date as of recent is a one-man circus show where I have to entertain a woman's attention in hopes that one day I could be more than a wallet and therapist. Not once, have I gotten any raw devotion or love, sweet nothings because there are so many other men in her DM waiting for their chance lol. It doesn't help that it's not just me, but an entire trend and culture. I cannot compete or entertain this level of unseriousness, when I’m not receiving the bare minimum.

MotleyCrew1989 · 2024-09-15T00:17:13+00:00

IDK if I have completely given up, but I stopped trying altogether, its been almost two years since my last date.

I dont consider myself undesirable, Im 1,80mts tall, 77Kgs of mostly muscle (5 11", 170lbs) I have a psychology major, a good income for my country, well read, I do carpentry as a hobby besides the gym and some videogames. I have a good life long friend group and years long friendships with women, so Im not a loner. Im a conservative, so Im looking for a monogamous relationship, I dont do drugs of any kind except the ocasional social drinking.

I stoped dating because its not rewarding for me anymore, the last enjoyable date i had with a woman I considered both interesting and physically atractive was pre pandemic. After that all dates felt more like a job interview. I tried dating outside of my preferences but the experiens was even more lackluster.

Also, I dont think women have much to offer anymore, unless they desire you from the get go, their time and affection feels preety conditioned and transactional. They are always expecting something from us and sometimes their actions are not alingned to their desires (like wanting a monogamous relationship but doing multidating).

Adding to that, after 30 a man´s hormones start to calm down, you dont think with your dick nearly as much as before, and that eliminates any willingness to tolerate a woman´s bullshit you had left.

IDK if someone I find atractive and enjoyable to be arround stats hitting on me, I might give it one try, but I wont actively do anything to create a chance for that someone to apear in my life.

Cyrrow · 2024-09-15T07:16:59+00:00

As an inkwell, this thread is very depressing.

jay_de-leon · 2024-09-14T15:52:13+00:00

What your describing is called MGTOW and they used to have a sub on Reddit before they got banned because they got infiltrated by the black pill incels who distorted their original message.

I personally have respect for the true mgtow men because instead of bitching and moaning they actually turned their backs on women and are living better lives because of it.

icxcnika1 · 2024-09-14T16:10:34+00:00

I would probably be seen as someone who "gave up". Although I never started to begin with. I just never had the drive and confidence to pursue women.

I like being alone and I also don't really enjoy things like partying or drinking alcohol so that cut me off from a lot of social events and opportunities. I've been approached by a couple of women but I didn't find them attractive

63daddy · 2024-09-14T16:42:30+00:00

I “gave up” seeking marriage long ago as I realized how incredibly biased against men marriage and divorce is and how much I stood to lose. Marriage is a biased contract that simply isn’t in my interest.

I’m not bitter or in despair about it however and I don’t blame women. It’s simply an objective decision given the realities, not that different from deciding not to spend money on the lottery or avoid the risks of a high injury rate activity.

I find dating in general has gone down hill, but I haven’t given up on it entirely. I enjoy my independence when I’m not dating someone and enjoy a relationship whenever the opportunity presents itself and/or I’m willing to put in the huge effort successful dating takes. I think that’s a dating mistake a lot of men make: they feel a moderate effort over time should pay off, when a large, dedicated effort over a shorter period is more likely to pay off.

Ripley_Riley · 2024-09-14T16:54:51+00:00

At the very bottom of the sexual market hierarchy are the least sexually desirable and the ones who are unable to find a women they desire because their own desirability is too low.

It's funny and telling to see the framing as "the problem is obviously with the men", without addressing issues with available women and the dating market in general.

Safari_User_007 · 2024-09-14T19:50:19+00:00

I didn't so much "give up" as I did "aged out". You hit a certain age, 35-45 where you just become invisible to the opposite sex.

IceWingAngel · 2024-09-14T17:12:56+00:00

Also a fellow quitter like other bro that commented. Not quite exactly 30 yet though. Got a couple more months. Pretty much on par with lack of experience though. I might try to add in my answers to those questions first hand OP when I’m back at my computer.

e/ Follow Up.

What is it about them that makes them unwanted? Why did they become that way?

For me it was a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy and a bit of consecutive back to back runs of bad luck. Thus fueling the self-fulfilling sense of it all. Moreover, naturally with being a man, the longer one goes without experience, the more it compounds via stigma, esteem, worth, etc. At a certain point the uphill battle is a mixture of seemingly insurmountable as well as improbable just due to the criteria it would take to meet someone with both the compatibility and patience to deal with it all.

And, most importantly, what happened to them after they "gave up."

For now, I'm living for my family. The future admittedly does have me significantly stressed. I didn't do well mentally the last time I was out living on my own.

45O2p0o2U1zf · 2024-09-14T15:55:41+00:00

This is basically me-- after a couple decades of futility, I realized short/autistic/ugly was never going to get anywhere in the dating market. I was dealt a bad hand, then I played it badly, and now it's too late because in the 40+ dating market nearly every lady is spoken for or a single mother. Per Pew, if somebody makes it to the age of 40 having never been married, their chances of getting married are only one in four. There's nothing I can do about that, my window was barely ever open and now it's closed.

However, I'm successful in real life, make far more money than I can plausibly spend and it's never been easier/more convenient to simply hire sex workers. I speak Spanish and English, so I'm a frequent customer in both Tijuana and across America. It's a lot easier not to care about how impossible the regular dating market is if sex is available more or less on demand. It's not really what I wanted out of life, if it was up to me I would have chosen the ability to have a conventional romance, but I'm making the best of the situation. E.g., traveling would be better with a built in companion, but also I can do group travel, travel with friends, or simply hire somebody on the other side-- pretty handy to have a companion who speaks both English and the local language, I can just let her handle ordering at restaurants and the like.

More broadly speaking, I think the solution to unwanted men is to make sex work legal and normalized. We're highly unlikely to be the first generation that doesn't have prostitutes, so let's make it safe and easy for everybody involved.

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2024-09-14T16:12:29+00:00

Stopped trying in 2018

MikeArrow · 2024-09-14T20:27:47+00:00

I 'gave up' when I was like 13/14. I knew for a fact that no girl would ever want me and I would never be good enough so I just... let it go.

I still had crushes on girls but I never seriously thought one would ever like me. I held out hope that maybe one day it would happen but it was a pipe dream like winning the lottery. The things that I needed to do to become desirable (get fit, learn social skills) seemed so far out of my reach as to be impossible.

I've never actively 'pursued' one or anything like that. If I didn't get approached by my first girlfriend at university I'd probably still be alone.

Since we broke up six years ago I've tried a couple of times to lose the weight so I could be thin enough to be attractive but it's just not working. There's too many things wrong with me.

So to answer the question, I was never 'in' the dating game. I never went out to clubs or bars or anything like that. I had no method of connecting with people outside of D&D, which isn't really the place to meet women.

topforce · 2024-09-14T18:58:45+00:00

Is there anybody in your life, whether it is an older relative or acquaintance that fits the description?

Of course I know him, it's me.

What is it about them that makes them unwanted?

Mostly terrible social skills.

Why did they become that way?

Always have been that way. Life is not for everyone.

And, most importantly, what happened to them after they "gave up."

Since suicide feels overly dramatic, nothing happened, just working and waiting till I die.

LAKings55 · 2024-09-14T18:05:01+00:00

I found dating and relationships rather unfulfilling. Sex was ok at best and not much of a motivator for me, and "hookups" outside of relationships were hollow pursuits with fleeting sensations. It's just not for me, and I've been happily single for nearly 10 years now. I just have better ways to occupy my time.

Comfortable-Dare-307 · 2024-09-16T15:28:24+00:00

I gave up. And once I started going back to the gym, I've had several women approach me. I became that way because almost every cloese (non-friend) relationship I've had with any woman has been abusive. Including all the women in my family I'm close to. As of now, my stuff is too important to me to eventually have a wife who cheats on me, gets divorced and takes half my stuff. Been there, done that. Never again. Women don't know how to be in a comitted relationship. Divorce is initiated by women 80% of the time, and its always the man's fault because women refuse to be responsible for anything. I'm done with abusive women. And yes, they're all that way.

Only-Plate590 · 2024-09-14T16:19:31+00:00

Not quite what you were looking for but a mate got involved with a very attractive woman. Everyone said to him she's just going to leech off you. She had 2 kids in tow and had never had a meaningful job in her life.

She left him for his brother. He swears he's done with women

Tywinlol2 · 2024-09-14T17:30:45+00:00

What does giving up mean? For example, I do not actively date and reject women that show interest in me. In theory I'm open to a relationship with perfect woman if she showed up in my life, but if not I'm content being single for the rest of my life.

Dertross · 2024-09-15T01:38:27+00:00

Of course I know him. He's me.

I went from being obese, living with my parents, ungroomed, and making ~30k a year in fast food. I had social hobbies playing D&D every week, sometimes multiple nights.

I lost weight to a normal BMI, got in shape, started taking grooming seriously ( I even tried to grow a beard, for fucks sake, the genetics just weren't there), got a new job making ~70k a year, moved out and got an apartment in a nice part of town, and started going to meetups. It took me about 2 years to get into a state that I found acceptable, and I maintained it for a year.

I hardly got any matches in OLD. Didn't meet any women in the meetups outside a bunch of older married ones. If anything, I started going out less because COVID fucked up my D&D group and outings with other friends as they moved away when remote work became a huge thing.

I didn't cold approach women, so feel free to pretend if only I had done that one more thing suddenly everything would have worked out.

I'm now a 30 year old kissless dateless "virgin" ( I've seen some escorts a few times, but I still call myself a virgin for ease of conversation ) and more obese than I ever was.

I honestly feel like even if I did get a relationship, it would have been with a woman who wasn't nearly as driven as I was ( at the time), and I would have been resentful that I would have put in all that effort to improve just to get a fat woman I wasn't really attracted to and didn't share any of my actual nerdy introverted interests.

proffessorCouch · 2024-09-14T19:55:31+00:00

Once given up you can start the good life of enjoying delicious foods, fun porn and adventures in video games! Its a far better life than dealing with uptight angry women and when you finally get one then you got a needy naggy pain in the butt, all cause some useless primal urge to make babies when you don’t even want kids

thedarkracer · 2024-09-14T19:42:01+00:00

Nothing, I never even entered the dating market. Like I told before bad interactions during school and I saw my friends suffering in college like bad rejections and such. So the belief that you have to be somewhat top tier to get a girl is still ingrained in my mind.

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HODL_monk · 2024-09-16T09:14:55+00:00

I gave up about 30 years ago. There was nothing really wrong with me, besides being short and not very social, but that is more than enough. After giving up I have been developing my Ninja-like skill of being invisible to women. Its not easy to tell when my super power kicks on, but the occasional jump scare reminds me that with great loneliness comes great responsibility...

Unable_Evidence_4028 · 2024-09-16T10:45:27+00:00

I dont know what you talking about. Men dont say they quit or give up. They just stop trying. They are not doing that for clicks or views. They just want peace.

Locomotive-man-1987 · 2024-09-14T23:23:42+00:00

You haven't defined what you understand by "giving up".

I'm still sexually active, it's just that I don't seek a live-in gf/LTR and most definitely not marriage. Does that count as "giving up"? It's unclear from your question.

Currently I have two FWBs - one hopes she can escalate and genuinely thinks I'm joking when I decline and the other one is very happy with the arrangement. Eventually I'll have to drop the one who wants to escalate. Too bad because sex with her is amazing.

I almost married my 2nd girlfriend at 23 and I found her riding the dick of one of her exes. That's when I "gave up" on seeking family life.

Since then, I bought three properties, opened two businesses and one of them really took off. At the current trajectory, I'll be able to retire in 2 or 3 years. Heck, if I'm willing to downgrade a bit, I can retire tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I would've never been able to do this had I actually married 14 years ago.

I have a decent group of male friends (10 guys) and most of them are single so they always have time for activities together. Life is pretty damn good. I sincerely don't think it could be improved by a live-in gf/LTR/wife. I certainly ain't looking. FWBs are the best.

banthaaaa · 2024-09-14T20:34:48+00:00

I haven't given up because I have a great deal of dreams and goals in life. I just realised that romance and sex aren't one (or two) of them.

Specified_Owl · 2024-09-15T22:08:13+00:00

I know the question is for men, but did any women even read the responses on this thread? I assume that women who answered it might have incidentally read some of them. The question was not aimed solely at men, so they can/should answer if they want to.

Proudvow · 2024-09-16T02:35:13+00:00

Plenty of guys were born not competing. So it just remains the same. You don't hear about it because there was no big change to note.

Khidorahian · 2024-09-14T21:44:27+00:00

22 single man here. Decided after seeing the sheer amount of violence against women that the risk I pose is too great, thus I admire from afar. If I could, I would want to guide others there, but I have no experience, so I cannot. I like to be a port to anyone who needs to rest the old sails.

the most odd thing is that throughout my childhood I had plenty of exposure to girls and women and I was a social butterfly in primary school, but after secondary, I came to quickly realise that the attention I gave wasn't warranted or wanted, thus I went in the opposite direction.

ItsOverBoyosLDAR · 2024-09-15T08:30:42+00:00

I am against race mixing and the society I live in is mostly anti-racemixing as well. I could absolutely never imagine being in a relationship with a monoracial woman and people of my mix basically don't exist where I live, or anywhere in the world in adequate numbers for that matter. Even if they did, it would result in me having to completely uproot my life, moving to a different country, probably having to learn a new language which I am not willing to do.

Pitiful_Progress_699 · 2024-09-15T21:47:42+00:00

I’ve given up. At 35 I just feel invisible. Years of working out, meetups, approaches, clubs, OLD and I’ve never been kissed or held or been in a relationship. Partly I think it’s my face which looks odd and a little feminine and partly my legs as I was born very knock kneed (or is it pigeon-toed? My thighs turn in at the hips and my knees and lower leg out) and that’s a huge turnoff. I also have Asperger’s. I’ve tried really hard but have encountered nothing but pain, rejection, laughter or silence. My family life growing up was not fun either (abusive, authoritarian father). We had little money so surgery for my legs was not happening. I was bullied relentlessly in my teens for acne. Never met someone through work or school or anything like that. My friends are married and off having kids. Even worse, nobody I know in relationship has put in near the amount of work I have. At a certain point the pain and sweat of trying so much just wasn’t worth 0 reward.

Hi-Road · 2024-09-15T12:20:40+00:00

I don’t think of them as rejects as all. I have relatives and older friends, men and women, met through work that have been through bad relationships or situations, who were hurt bad enough that they gave up indefinitely. Abuse, bad divorce, cheating, etc. Most of them are extremely kind and insightful.

Desirability doesn’t really even factor in. It’s just an aspect of life that they don’t want to deal with anymore. Fairly sure it’s a much larger percent of the population than most would think. I definitely don’t think anyone’s worth is tied to if they can find a partner or not

Cool_Ranch_2511 · 2024-09-16T07:59:37+00:00

The concept of giving up, even quitting implies that you've failed and still think it's a pursuit worth taking for yourself. I disagree that premise applies to everyone. I've been in relationships with women who were loyal, good company, attractive "high quality" and so on. I still don't see the even the good relationships I've had as better than being alone, at least not in the long-term. Once my last serious relationship was over, which was with my probably best catch, I was so relieved that I could be alone again. It really made me evaluate why I even thought I wanted a relationship. Some people are not wired to be around the same person every day. To me it just seems insane to want that.

cybernd · 2024-09-14T16:28:14+00:00

This sub tends to ignore another type of men: Men who have always deliberately kept their distance from women.

Pitiful_Progress_699 · 2024-09-16T00:45:00+00:00

I can’t

I’ve given up. At 35 I just feel invisible. Years of working out, meetups, approaches, clubs, OLD and I’ve never been kissed or held or been in a relationship. Partly I think it’s my face which looks odd and a little feminine and partly my legs as I was born very knock kneed (or is it pigeon-toed? My thighs turn in at the hips and my knees and lower leg out) and that’s a huge turnoff. I also have Asperger’s. I’ve tried really hard but have encountered nothing but pain, rejection, laughter or silence. My family life growing up was not fun either (abusive, authoritarian father). We had little money so surgery for my legs was not happening. I was bullied relentlessly in my teens for acne. Never met someone through work or school or anything like that. My friends are married and off having kids. Even worse, nobody I know in relationship has put in near the amount of work I have. At a certain point the pain and sweat of trying so much just wasn’t worth 0 reward.

krackedy · 2024-09-14T15:34:55+00:00

If they truly gave up years ago they hopefully won't be hanging around places like this.

Alfred-Adler · 2024-09-14T19:40:04+00:00

There was a time when I was single when I "quit" traditional dating; and then - by "accident" - I met with a women who also had "quit" traditional dating, and we became FWBs. It was grand, we both enjoyed what we had, it lasted about a year or so. For a few years I did a mix of hooking up, casual dating, and - my favorite - FWBs.

I was very happy with that lifestyle.

Then one day, agains by change, out of the left field, I met this incredible woman, yadda yadda yadda we are now happily married.

But if she didn't happen, I would still be doing the mix of hooking up, casual dating, and FWBs.

"Dating" as we used to know is a very niche market, IMO the future of dating is "sugaring". With sugaring everybody wins!

EugeneCezanne · 2024-09-14T19:51:04+00:00

I don't know anyone in real life who gave up. I think it's very, very rare—the internet just allows lots of rare men to gather in one visible place.

I've known men who say they're giving up, though. That lasts about until they meet a girl.

Title	Question for those that "gave up."
Author	ProfessorOilNGas
Upvotes	59
Comments	407
Date	September 14, 2024 3:25 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1fgol6m/question_for_those_that_gave_up/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/question-for-those-that-gave-up.1530348 https://theredarchive.com/post/1530348

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