Most average males should not bother with most women unless they are really willing to lower their standards.

HeroinAndHeartbreak · 2022-09-13T11:51:47+00:00

Most males are willing to lower their standards

Smitten_Squire · 2022-09-13T15:25:18+00:00

Guys standards are already in the gutter lol

JMoon33 · 2022-09-13T11:37:04+00:00

If you're an average dude like me, the best you can do is to be outgoing, have a healthy social life, and then as you meet women and they get to know you, you'll get dates and such.

Dating apps and such are worth a try, but it shouldn't be the only way you try to meet women.

AssistTemporary8422 · 2022-09-13T16:53:42+00:00

Men outnumber women 4 to 1 on dating apps. The vast majority of relationships still start in real life.
The vast majority of guys don't do cold approach more than a few times in their lives.
Chasing a woman is a disaster if she just isn't attracted to you.
Yes experience is important for dating. Maybe average guys get average girls because they are in each other's league. I don't see any evidence the average girl have more casual sex than men. https://contexts.org/blog/who-has-how-many-sexual-partners/
You can reduce rejection by dating more within your social circle, rather than hitting on women who don't know you. Also look for signs she is interested.
Go to Walmart and Target. The vast majority of guys with a partner aren't that impressive, and the vast majority never learned game. Its about social skills.
Then why are the vast majority of couples I see when shopping are average men and average women?

Maelas84 · 2022-09-13T13:02:55+00:00

I mean...I want to give encouraging advice, but you are right in much of your post. At least from a statistics point of view.

The only thing I can tell you is to NOT give up and become angry with women. The more you do, the less chance you have.

I am having a similar but opposite experience. I am attractive and fit and do get a good number of matches/dates. HOWEVER, that does NOT mean any of them are right for me. I kept meeting women who simply do not want to commit to anything. The moment I bring up what they are looking for, they get defensive and answer with something vague or non-committal . I would have preferred not to have matches like this then waste time going on multiple dates with someone who cant even tell me what shes looking for.

In any case, I stay hopeful I will meet someone who has not been too affected by the current dating climate and ACTUALLY is searching for something both physical AND emotional; a real relationship.

Freevoulous · 2022-09-13T13:33:38+00:00

true
definitely not true. Cold approach is much better than apps, and can deliver more success than you reaonably need, if your goal is a monogamous LTR.
true, and you do not have to do that.
sure, but the learning curve here is very promissing, even a month of two of actively practicing Game at every opportunity, plus looks-maxxing to your current max potential is easy enough to get laid/relationship.
Not true, if you treat the Game as a game. Its not different from I dunno, Dark Souls or something. You lose most of the time, but ultimately get better and win. Rejection is not even a real human interaction yet, it has no bearing on your ego.
Absolute bollocks. Its massively eaiser nowadays, because most men today are fat manchildren with no taste for adventure and competition. Just being decently fit and socially bold will put you solidly above almost every man in your vicinity.
Average men today are absolute twats. Overweight, overly sensitive, sexually timid, socially awkward and panic at any sight of difficulty, competition of adversity. Of course women do not want average men, averaeg men are useless. Don't be average.

All your abouve problems are solved by:

- lifting weights

- practicing Game very actively, and brute-forcing through any sign of anxiety you get

- looks-maxxing (wardrobe, grooming, good pics/social media curation).

It can be all maxxed out in 6-8 months tops, and its smooth sailing from then on.

PuppyloveInn · 2022-09-13T19:11:56+00:00

Yea I lowered my standards and had a terrible divorce because of it nearly lost anything and I did lose most things Never again will I make that same mistake again.

sunnyshane85 · 2022-09-13T14:21:20+00:00

top 20% get top 80% women or women waiting and hoping for those 20% to commit..

while 80% men have to accept 20% of left over below average women..or once in there late 30s and who looking for rich or establish guys with in that 80%..

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2022-09-13T14:43:51+00:00

Dating apps were not designed to help average man but for average man to spend more money like only fans. So unfortunately the long days of waiting on a match that isn't a bott or onlyfans model are only gunna get worse.

Tale as old as time. Pimps have been around forever. Apps are the new pimps.

Cold approach is simply not worth it. Unless you were in the upper extra line of man who are really good looking or in the upper echelon of men who have really good game it's simply not worth it to approach. You will spend far too much time approaching too many women for extremely little results. And on the real chance you do get a number or a date if the woman will almost always flake on you.

Of course cold approaching is dumb. Women on here have repeatedly said they hate it. I thought the only real reason RP promotes it is to inoculate men against the sting of rejection. Once you’ve been rejected 100 times it no longer has power over you.

Acceptable-Truck3803 · 2022-09-13T15:14:36+00:00

I would disagree. Choose what you want. If you can’t get what you want position yourself to get what you want.

Me: 1. Average man or slightly above average. Used to have a new sex buddy every week in college and after until the age of 31. They do work. Handful of them turned into relationships.

cold approach works, but you have to have some game/hold a conversation/and meet the rules or be attractive and don’t be not attractive. Learn how to talk to strangers, little by little you get better at it. Start with saying hello or good morning/evening to someone new everyday. Build genuine friendships and relationships. Ask about who they are, what they do, etc.
chasing works sometimes. Ask and chase to ask for a date 2-3 times. After that, leave them alone. Some women have that internal rule to turn down a date or two to “test someone.” It’s typical BS but it’s one way some women try to weed out those who only want to hook up.
Of course life experiences matter. People want to travel, do things, not want paint dry, learn things from around the world. If you don’t have those ideas or experiences or desire to do anything besides eat pizza on the couch and Netflix, why would anyone date the other person?
Getting rejected is draining, but a way of life. Right or wrong ? No one can say. But I’m sure you have rejected people in some manner right? They experience the same.
it’s not hard to get women, but then again why should someone date you ? What do you bring to the table/experiences for them to want to stick around? Put in the work to be as attractive as possible. It takes time but do what you have to do. Sadly, the world sees your struggle as your own. I hate to say man up and handle your business, but it’s YOU who has to take initiative.
Average men don’t want average women. All women don’t want an average man. Both genders don’t want average.

ImStillHavingFun · 2022-09-13T12:53:06+00:00

OP, it seems as if you’ve discovered the black pill. It’s really just nihilism repackaged for the current century. You really have to ask yourself if you want to live by that philosophy. No judgement, you do you. But if you don’t, there’s all kinds of people willing to help you out. But unless you make that decision, no one will be able to convince you otherwise.

delight-n-angers · 2022-09-13T18:22:20+00:00

Dating apps were not designed to help average man

Dating apps weren't designed to help anybody. They're a business designed to make the company that owns them money. That's literally it.

dante42lk · 2022-09-14T06:07:08+00:00

Yes, in current times guys should improve themselves and seek ways of life enjoyment. If they want to get females they may increase their exposure time to opposite sex (public places used for recreation purposes) and sometimes cold approaching. Modern dating is fucked beyond recognition and is primarily about looks. Sadly, 80% of the men are below average in looks for women and 66% of the dating pre covid was done in looks-dominating conditions (39% social media, 27% at bars/restaurants). Lots of "back in my day i met my betsie in a church/through friends" applies less and less each day because Betsie wasn't born and raised with a pocket supercomputer connecting her to every potential male partner/ loud female influencer in the universe, it happened just yesterday on the scale of humanity.

tinasnow-poty · 2022-09-13T12:40:09+00:00

Agreed. Dating apps are primarily to make money for Match.com. The ratio can be as bad as 1:9. It shouldn’t be anyone’s primary method of meeting women, but if you’re easy going and don’t put too many expectations on it it’s a nice extra
Cold approach has always seemed like a poor method to me. The chances of a person being single, attractive to you, attracted to you and willing to talk are way lower on the street than somewhere where people are expected to be social, like a bar or activity group.
Approaching, initiating a conversation, trying to get to know someone is necessary. Chasing? No. If the lady isn’t reciprocating, remove yourself from that situation.
Holiday destinations aren’t heavily skewed towards women? Go on tiktok and search Ibiza, kavos, ayia napa, Tulum, bali, it’s full of men lol. Maybe you haven’t travelled, but I think the average man travels from time to time. Well at least when I go on holiday, there are plenty average men there. Why doesn’t the average man invest in his friendships?
Agreed, I really admire men for their resilience in the dating game. It’s very impressive how they can bounce back.
Yes you have to pass the looks threshold (doesn’t everyone?) but the range of what is found attractive is wide. Lots of women like dad bods, bald guys, don’t care for height. So you don’t need to be Chris hemsworth to date. Yes you need to be somewhat charming and interesting to her. Why would anyone want to spend time with a boring, uncomfortable and uninteresting guy? Men may be able to bear it for sex, but for women it’s not that appealing.

The women online who say I need a 6 foot 6 figure 6 inch are loud, and continue to be loud because their standards are so high so they’re always single lol. Love me some City Girls but obviously they’re in the public eye and highly desired, regular degular girls like me realise we don’t operate in the same circles and therefore we don’t ask for the same treatment. The average girl doesn’t want a Cartier bracelet and £300 first dates. I bet most average girls will be happy with a nice dinner and some flowers every now and again. There’s even low maintenance girls out there who are like “McDonald’s is a date with the right person” (not to me but each to their own!).

Yet when I go outside, I see average people in relationships ALL. THE. TIME.

AndrewPotato34 · 2022-09-13T14:26:26+00:00

So average men should give up?

freespirit1963TJ · 2022-09-13T21:28:13+00:00

I'm probably older than most people who look at this sub. I look at a great deal of what is posted and a couple things become apparent. Generalizations are posted that reflect the experiences and opinions of a very small group or an individual. Opinions are painted with a huge brush, a great deal of all or nothing. Allow me to preface commenting by saying that I understand completely the dynamic(s) that drive this sub. I didn't grow up in the internet/social media age, there are many, many things that are far fetched and seem pointless to me. I'll touch on a couple. I see people buying literature, attending seminars and following the advice of people (men) who claim to provide you with information to enhance your, "game". It all looks like a huge snake oil sale and money grab. Don't misunderstand, they are people who use this information, and are successful, but is it more about the information provided or the person using it. I'll give you a real world example: a career in sales. A career in sales can be very rewarding, and highly lucrative. Yes, there are college courses, seminars, literature that are intended to give people the basics to be a successful salesperson. The cream, that usually rise to the top of this game are people who have qualities that you can't teach. Same thing with bagging women, you have guys that can really run through a lot of women and don't seem to try. Never lose sight of the fact that, MONEY plays a huge role in relationships. It appears that people here tend to overthink things that really aren't relevant. For instance an, "average" man or woman. Whose definition of average are you using?

pop442 · 2022-09-14T00:00:56+00:00

Average men need to consider foreign women as an option period.

poppy_blu · 2022-09-13T11:54:04+00:00

I think you’re not average

Barneysparky · 2022-09-13T11:51:36+00:00

If you can't function within a social group, within friendships, within your family even how can you expect to function in a more complex relationship?

Learn to walk before you try to run. Join up and be a part of life. If that's impossible for you, get therapy to treat your social anxieties instead of blaming women.

If you don't like people, then frankly your best bet is a sex doll.

Ramzabeo · 2022-09-13T12:44:10+00:00

My advice to this is pretty late for most people here but i know its true.

You need to talk to girls like if they were what the actually are……people, by putting them in this pedastal where you have the need to think or double think how to talk to them youre already losing, i am not attractive, not rich, but i still talk to girls like anyone else and had a ton of success back in the day (married now) thats literally all you need.

Now if its not what you need, then you are chasing the wrong girl, if you need to validate yourself to her by having money or being 6ft do you really want this woman in your life? You shouldnt, you should look for a girl that has standards, but not the insane shit the ones on social media need.

Met my wife when i had no car, had lame ass job and no six pack lol, is she a Stacy? Nope, but im not a Chad either, stop calling it settling, lowering your standards imply you can pull stacies like chad does, you cant which is why you are here, and idk about any of you, but being with a 5 you click with is a lot better than a 10 who has a shit personality.

JumboJetz · 2022-09-13T15:20:53+00:00

Most men would do best getting a VR headset for VR porn and seeing an escort sometimes.

PronKing10 · 2022-09-13T12:14:37+00:00

All of this insinuates that you're probably not as average as you think you are. Most of the dudes complaining on here, about the same topic phrased slightly different, are below average. They're below average in looks and certainly below average in the amount of work they're willing to put into themselves. Always making excuses about "yeah I can work out but that won't fix a face" or "I still won't be a millionaire" or "it doesn't fix height!" As if no dude under 5'6 has a gf... Get a nice haircut, find flattering clothes that fit you, go to the gym, find hobbies that isn't posting your theories that women only wear makeup for men.

cistra_bro2 · 2022-09-13T14:14:54+00:00

I have not dated, but honestly I do not have actual ways to meet women in my everyday life. Almost all women I interact with are married or far older than me.

Since I did not date women at college or High School, now it is almost impossible to meet marriageable women now that I do have money and resources.

Nightclubs are not an option for decent women. Dating at work is taboo. My church have very few people my age and the vetting is hard. Apps are not favorable to average looking guys like me. I do not think you can meet a special person in a supermarket, and even less in the age of coronavirus and other illnesses.

Only realistic options is by proxy friends, but even those options are very limited and friends often frustrate that kind of relationships.

learn2earn89 · 2022-09-13T18:30:04+00:00

Average men have an average experience in the dating world. I see average men dating all the time. I don’t know what y’all mean.

iamprosciutto · 2022-09-14T01:09:00+00:00

If most guys stopped chasing women so hard, shit wouldn't be so unbalanced.

I don't flirt with girls. I talk to women like I talk to guys. I have conversations about their interests and show genuine interest in them. I freely talk about how much I care about my partner if she comes up in a conversation. I am professional, friendly, and polite at work.

I have had more women look me up and down or seem a little flustered since adopting this behavior than I ever did when I chased after them. I can only presume that a man who isn't chasing women is different enough from the norm to peak interest. For context, I'm a tall, chubby, muscular white guy who can't grow a beard. I think I'm pretty average look-wise with all the pros and cons added, and I'mpretty naturally introverted. It's my social, sexual, and culinary skills that catch and keep attention. I don't like talking, so I pack as much communication as I can into as few words as possible. A humorous laconic response can send some ladies into surprised giggles, and it's all over for them after that

Shebalied · 2022-09-13T16:43:56+00:00

Not sure what most guys are doing now which are ages 14-18 but if you are not outside of your bubble learning to talk to humans you will be at a large disadvantage. Cell phones and texting have made it harder for some young people to connect. Talking to my young cousins 12-14 I feel I do all the question asking and can get them to talk and interact, but most girls won't be putting in that effort.

greedyleopard42 · 2022-09-13T18:42:02+00:00

be friends first. and don’t show any initial attraction if you have it.

this is how a lot of women end up with much uglier guys. they get to know them as people, and they’re shocked that the guy isn’t automatically trying to hook up with them. people want what they can’t have, and with a woman who is used to getting attention, you have the advantage there. it isn’t going to work on every woman, so don’t have your heart set on a specific one necessarily. make a lot of female friends

Bruhmuh · 2022-09-13T19:23:37+00:00

50 cent- Get rich, confident, and handsome or die trying

ChibsFilipTelfordd · 2022-09-15T17:22:26+00:00

Making yourself into an attractive male is probably one of the hardest things to do as a man

Which is why it's so desired and attractive of course

chingness · 2022-09-13T13:37:14+00:00

MGTOW is the best way - go enjoy your life and leave women the fuck alone 🙂

melody_of_ · 2022-09-13T14:37:03+00:00

OP never forget an average male can through years of hard work become decently above average and by extension of this attractive to average women.

Focus on that as the goal. Is it fair that you have to put in multiple orders of magnitude more then women for the same thing? No that's just nature. Scream at Darwin for the state of affairs but when you are done understand you cannot fight nature, no amount of moralizing will change the darwinistic landscape of mating and dating.

we are still animals but you can overcome the challenge of standing above the average male if you are willing to endure the pains it requires and it will require pains on your part. Lots of pains

You can do this man 🥳

hostility_kitty · 2022-09-13T16:59:36+00:00

Jesus christ I’m so glad I met my fiancé before he even got the chance to succumb to this horrible mindset

Apex-Men · 2022-09-13T13:14:57+00:00

If u watch porn and masturbate. r/NoFap can help a ton, and helped me a ton!! Increased energy, grounded me in my own reality of life instead of focusing on other ppl and honestly fixed the chemical in-balance in my brain

nCRedditor-21 · 2022-09-13T21:44:15+00:00

Men’s standards are already in the shitter. We’re expected to settle for the most disgusting women planet Earth has to offer - obese women, single mums with multiple kids from multiple baby daddies, all the women who enjoyed racking up a sexual body count in their 20s, third-culture women who pretend to lovebomb average men for green cards and permanent visas etc.

Meanwhile most women look like wish versions of Lizzo, have the mediocre talent of “fluency in sarcasm” or being able to quote every episode of The Office, and expect their men to look like Baywatch Zac Efron or Chris Hemsworth. Well you know what? Women who don’t look like they could walk the Victoria’s Secret runway or are actual models for a living, aren’t real women.

MSAPPLIEDSTATS · 2022-09-13T12:31:18+00:00

If you're an average guy, your best bet is to gym max and lateral raise spam. I think men discount how attractive a fit, in shape body is.

Ask yourself this question, if a girls face isn't that great but she has an amazing body are you still attracted. If you're in shape and fit, women will approach you.

Stop_Maximum · 2022-09-13T16:50:09+00:00

Just because you think you’re average doesn’t mean you’ are. You might be actually below average, and that’s typical for people that go through what you’ve analysed there. Dating apps can help someone who’s average maybe with good looking looks to get dates, but people below average might find it harder. Therefore using money is a way for them to gamble their luck. Cold approaching have better results if you’re average, above average but mainly attraction.

To finish it all, dating is pretty much a choice. If it doesn’t work for you, why are you bothering? People will go for what they like, and if you don’t have success, you’re not one of them.

That you choose to date or not, life will still go on. You will make it easier for people to scroll left less.

psd5 · 2022-09-13T20:36:49+00:00

i would personally prefer a dude dies off virgin with dignity and self-respect rathern than chasing women, getting lower and lower self-esteem and only boosting current western female in any country.

Way too many women nowadays feel entitled to only high value men. Whether they do claim it conciously or unconciously because biologically they know that men will go after them.

To an extent I understand big raising of red/black pill, mgtow and inc3l groups. You cannot make the average male not feeling resentment toward women if they have (at least in this way of living) it so much easier to get sex or affection from the other sex.
I personally have talked this issue to several other women and either they seem careless, get silent, laugh or simply don't know what to answer...

Best advice is to NOT approach women by pretty much all the points you set up. I'm specially aware of the FOURTH point. I'm from 90s and I already saw in my 12-13-14 years old how women got massive ego boosting, kissing and dating with school guys with so ease. Like, even the dudes were the ones approaching them. Even attractive dudes that were way above the girls.
Waiting to happen in the opposite case is like if an average looking dude got approached by a light blue girl like if it was like a semi-rare situation and sort of normal to you as a man.

I really do hate the attention women get and how this single social behavior boost and make their living better, specially in this century.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-09-13T11:46:25+00:00

Okay, so you don't like a few options for meeting a date and have ruled them out. How about asking out a friend, or a friend of a friend? I believe meeting through friends is still the most popular option.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2022-09-13T13:29:31+00:00

I think you made a list of reasons why you don’t want to try. Now make a list of things you can do to become “more than average”

What’s easier? Changing the world or changing yourself? Whose Im charge if getting you laid? The world, or you?

If you don’t want a woman that’s cool. There a whole sub for that. But if you do: what are you going to do about it now that you know the lay of the land?

BlueMountainDace · 2022-09-13T14:20:32+00:00

In order:

Agreed - dating apps are too lopsided and, at least the ones I've used in the past, don't give many options for anything but pure, visual stimulus. So yeah, average men won't do too well.
Disagree - a cold approach works. You just have to do it in the right place. Cold approaching in a grocery store, gym, library, book store, museum, etc won't work - even if you're attractive. That only happens on TikTok, TV, and Movies. In real life, the best place for any man to cold approach is at a bar, a party, or club. Somewhere people are drinking. As long as you're not sober and looking for the drunkest chick at the bar, you'll find that people are friendlier and you can meet women.
Neutral - I think chasing women means different things to different people. If chasing women is your only driving purpose daily...then yeah, it is probably a bad idea. If you're like most of the men I grew up with, then during the weekday you're focused on work + yourself and, if you go out to a bar or club or concert, then you're partially focused on meeting women.
Agree and Disagree - Agree that being successful at dating, like anything, is based on experience. Disagree that the average men have very little experience. Meeting women is not rocket science unless you're truly ugly or have a made up idea of how to interact with women that doesn't exist in real life. Throughout middle school, high school, and college, I met and knew plenty of average guys who had plenty of experience.
Agree - rejection, of any type, is draining. I don't think the average guy gets rejected that much though. If you have basic socialization in school or life, then you should also have some level of discernment that guides you when approaching or asking a woman out. If you're a man who can't figure that out after a handful or rejections, you're not average.
Disagree - It might be hard to get the women you fantasize about, but most women in my experience have pretty simple standards - be able to take care of yourself financially, don't be addicted to some sort of all-consuming vice, and be responsible for yourself. I think the average man can easily accomplish those things and if you can't, then you're not average.
Neutral - I haven't ever been a woman, but from my experience women generally marry/date in their social class. Do they want someone who is "above" them within their social class? Maybe. In most of the people I know, even if they're in the same social/educational class, the man makes more than the woman. In my case, though, my wife will be a doctor and make probably 2x - 3x what I make. I'm seeing that be more common as I grow older.

Academic_Snow_7680 · 2022-09-13T22:38:28+00:00

You are so wrong I don't know where to start. Honestly I just can't *yet again* correct the same nonsense here over and over again.

Yes. Men will spend money to get laid. OLD is just one way of many.
Wrong. If you are constantly striking out that is a sign that you have set your bar too high for the level you play at. Either you lower your standards or remain single - this is the same for EVERYBODY. Everybody is trying to punch up, if that means you strike out you need to either strike at your own level or strike down. Simple.
Depends on how you do it. This seems to work for LOADS of men. Women actually do like A LITTLE tasteful iteration of interest.
So your point is that the average guy doesn't know how to connect with other average guys. What are you guys all doing at the RPG sesh or when you're playing video games if not socializing? You're pretty much saying that the average guy is a nerd/recluse. Generalizing based on your own sample of 1 I presume or you are revealing that boys/men can't help themselves being socially inept. Uh, ok then. What's your point? That men are locked in a prison of their own making. Ok.
Yes, getting rejected is draining but if you think swiping on OLD is actually shooting your shot you have totally misunderstood how dating works. You have to actually speak to women in person in order to get good at it, women are people, you speak to them just like the guys. If you are failing at the bar you need to go to a different place, as I keep telling you guys and you keep ignoring: go where the women are. Try a hobby that women are into. Go take up dancing. If you think you're too good for that you can only blame yourself for your own failure.
Booohoooo, this is why you're failing: you've decided that nothing is going to work so why even bother trying. THIS PERSONALITY TRAIT IS THE REASON YOU ARE FAILING. NOBODY IS GOING TO SELECT A MATE THAT HAS THIS ATTITUDE: IT IS A GUARANTEED LIFE-PHILOSOPHY FOR FAILURE.
Yeah, so many guys don't even try to better themselves which makes the quality of the "average" man drop a gazillion levels. If you would better yourself just a tiny bit you'd be cream of the crop and get some girls - you have fallen for your own logical fallacy and are a prisoner of your own making.
Maaaaan I'm tired of reading you guys blame women for your own lack of ambition, lack of follow-through, lack of goals, lack of winning attitude, lack of effort and lack of personality. This attitude is not attractive, in fact it is repulsive. It is a GUARANTEED way to NEVER land a woman.
You are responsible for your own life. Live like that and stop blaming women for you not putting in the minimal effort to rise above the absolute floor that is the average man. Your play.

beduine · 2022-09-13T12:11:55+00:00

its otherwise. men dont even do the bare minimum and women still date them. its fucking sad. this post is bullshit. women are not the ones raping and murdering around

Any-Bottle-4910 · 2022-09-13T13:15:22+00:00

I wouldn’t go so far into doom and gloom but the online dating thing is half the problem. The other half is that we do not require accountability nor a sober look at reality from our growing girls when it comes to dating. Well… we do remind them about pregnancy (his fault), and about dangerous men, but we don’t do those correctly either.

In that last regard, I’ve just told my daughters the unvarnished truth. I trust them, with occasional reminders, to chart their own course.

1- 19 out of 20 men are not predators and most will actively help you even at great risk against a predator. However, start counting the men you pass by in a hallway. When you’ve hit the 20th, understand statistically only one of them is likely to be dangerous to you, but it only takes one….

2- dressing up to get the attention of a single boy is fine, but understand it’s not a DM. Your appearance is a broadcast to anyone with eyes. If your mode of dress is highly provocative, that 20th guy sees it too. It’s a signal to him that you’re hot to trot and available. Lower your odds of danger by keeping that in mind, not putting yourself alone or alone with a stranger, and remembering that creeps don’t usually look like creeps. They can be attractive and clean cut too. A pretty face doesn’t make a pretty heart.

My daughters mostly roll their eyes at me. I could/would knock my sons upside the head and loudly say “listen to me closely now, boy” - but we don’t do this with our daughters, and I don’t have sons. So, my wife is the only one who can enforce this. (We teach women not to listen to any inconvenient info from men from an early age, and moms are the chief culprit here, followed by popular media).

So… online dating….

I see several problems with it but will highlight two. Just two. They are things that always existed and screwed with women a little more than men, but it’s worse now when it’s online… here we go…

Choice paralysis occurs when instead of a room of ten men to choose from, they have a webpage of 16,000. Naturally, they would choose the most attractive (insert criteria here) for them. And why not? But, they know there are so many more options available and are scared of missing out on the “best one”. I watch my wife and daughters do this with everything they think about buying.

The second and most insidious thing is this: they mistake “he’ll sleep with me” with “he’s in my dating league”. This has two terribly bad effects.

1- OLD will make women think a perfect 10 guy who’s willing to bang is now in their dating league. Naturally, they aren’t going to settle for less now. So that causes them to write off partners who actually are in their league.

2- After running through a succession of Chads who’ll f*ck but not date, they attribute this behavior to men generally and get bitter. Well, that’s not most men, it’s just the ones with a full inbox who also get hit on while buying groceries. These guys have so many options, why would they take all the sacrifices that come with settling down with one girl who will draw their time and finances and treat them worse over time? And they’re certainly not going to go there with the 6 they just zero-effort bareback screwed on her couch for the price of cab fare and a $10 bottle of wine. How do I know? I was this guy. I didn’t lie to them about what I wanted and didn’t want. Hell, I was specific and direct, but they often projected the inner and unspoken (or lied about) fantasy of who they wanted me to be in their life onto the real me, and would get furious when I didn’t magically become what they imagined - and that thing was being available to them emotionally. I wasn’t. I’m sure there are several who’ve made me out to be a villain to their friends. But, they’d still hit me up, even years after I got very publicly married with a Facebook full of family pics.

OLD has been the single biggest killer of dating life for everyone but a few.

medlabunicorn · 2022-09-13T16:43:38+00:00

Hey, just a note: it’s kind of gross to use ‘males and women’ or ‘men and females.’ One is species specific, the other is not; please say ‘men and women,’ or, if you’re referring to any species, ‘males and females.’

NotARussianBot1984 · 2022-09-13T11:49:15+00:00

I disagree OP, as a guy that found TRP at 18, they taught me to embrace the grind to level up. So as I approached 100s of girls, Lifted at the gym, and rocked it at university, now that I have experienced what it's like as an average guy and have built up a career and look ok (still short), I recommend men like me not not bother with women, but sugar date them. Enjoy what it's like to be with a young hot girl, it's an experience every man that has worked hard at life should enjoy for a few months.

But yes, avoid the apps and cold approaching AFTER you have experienced their rejection. It's a good lesson being rejected, taught me well, to just not bother with it first hand and use my career TRP encouraged me to build to get what I want.

risdeveau · 2022-09-13T14:41:08+00:00

Why is talking to people and interacting with them socially in real life off the table, now?

HumanSockPuppet · 2022-09-13T14:49:51+00:00

The more accurate way to phase this is, "don't expect women to live up to the hype sold to you by western media."

Women aren't born wonderful, flawless creatures. They are as uncertain, insecure, and incompetent as you were before you learned to do anything. The only difference is, society will never expect or encourage them to learn on their own. Entertainment media is selling them an illusion that they are perfect as they are.

The dumber women will buy right into this, and allow their expectations and sense of entitlement to be inflated beyond recognition. But the smarter women will realize that they're being given a false bill of goods. Women have no modern popular role models to follow, no one to learn the process of trying, failing, trying again, and succeeding through perseverance.

So they're all depressed, looking at their supposed role models (like Wonder Woman) and resenting the fact that they too aren't born perfect and good at everything. They don't know how to go from being born to becoming Wonder Woman, because no one has showed them the steps in between.

You will have to do that.

And they will love you for it.

Like men, quality women aren't born. They are made.

herefortheparty01 · 2022-09-14T00:51:17+00:00

I used to have great luck on most apps.
Touch grass. Meeting people is fun. I have way better luck meeting in person.
Yeah. Don’t chase.
I agree. Also, as men age we become way more interesting. I agree with the rest. Good luck

Smithersink · 2022-09-14T04:17:09+00:00

I mean if you think this is the case, sure. Don’t lower your standards if you’d be happier alone. It’s easy today for men to define ourselves by female attention, and it’s really not healthy. But this is an assessment every individual has to make for themself.

Let me pose this question to you, though. If there’s an equal number of men and women, how can it be harder for men to find a woman than it is for a woman to find a man? Short term partners, sure, but why are you assuming that’s what women are looking for?

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ruboyuri · 2022-09-13T14:03:21+00:00

Do you have friends and at least one social circle?

Abstract_Knight · 2022-09-13T14:26:50+00:00

Idk if you are either pinkpill or redpill but i don't wanna know.

richard_golbes · 2022-09-13T15:27:51+00:00

They haven't traveled like girls

lol wut

darkvalleys · 2022-09-13T15:54:16+00:00

Polygamy is illegal, so average women are free to date and marry average men

labormarket · 2022-09-13T16:01:43+00:00

Number 4 and 5 are huge.

My ex was a very young blonde - we had a large age gap. Attractive ting.

Her next bf was a dude her age but he never had a gf in college while her body count def was 10+

She would call me up sometimes to complain about him and I’d take the dude’s side (I never met him) which would annoy her. She couldn’t see anything from his perspective.

The type of girl she and then men she likes as she enters her mid twenties, she’ll perpetually be more experienced than them.

franchisikms · 2022-09-13T17:04:18+00:00

I think it really all boils down to:

Average women don't want average men.

But average men also don't want average women. Everyone's standards are above average, therefore there is a large amount of men and women constantly searching for someone better.

It's like the driving surveys where literally everyone believes they are an above average driver. In this case everyone believes they are an above average catch and are trying to secure an above average man or woman.

General_High_Ground · 2022-09-13T19:40:41+00:00

TIL, men have standards. lol

Throwdaho · 2022-09-14T00:11:01+00:00

Man…. It’s Awful in here.

Working-Fly-4568 · 2022-09-14T03:13:53+00:00

Free onlyfans- https://discord.gg/cqEsCWW7

5_7pickup · 2022-09-14T04:19:37+00:00

Dont use dating apps then?
Ive been doing cold approach for 13 months. Ive made out with hundreds of girls, fucked dozens. Cold approach has allowed me to sleep with way hotter girls than I ever did before. It’s the most effective avenue of dating in my case.
This isnt even an argument its an opinion.
Everybody had to start from 0 at some point so idk whats the purpose of this statement.
Ive been rejected thousands of times. Its really not that draining. Like not even a little bit lmao. Quit being a bitch.
Hmm not really. I started learning cold approach 13 months ago. Shits not that hard.
Lol no thanks. Ill keep fucking hotter girls. You can settle for the scraps.

HobbitShaker88 · 2022-09-15T03:47:37+00:00

I mean you are entitled to your thoughts...but most couples I come across IRL the man is "average" and he is part of a couple...so your statement is not really all that accurate...

"The standards are higher and they won't put up with any guy that doesn't need the right criteria off rip." I really disagree with this. I know more women married or in relationships with men that treat them like crap than vice versa. Society conditions women to "put up" with bad behavior more...

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2022-09-16T17:38:53+00:00

If you are an average man you will ultimately end up with a below average women, if you want a LTR or STR, that's just how the dating market works because women are hypergamous and will not date a man on their level or below. The solution to this is for every man to try his hardest to be above average, if not to women in general then to a niche community or subset of women. The days of being an average guy and landing an above average woman are long gone.

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