Weekly Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2021-02-22T21:00:13+00:00

This weekly thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc......

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Can you say what country or do you not want to do it publicly?

I don't, but I can speak for what I see in Asian women as a whole b/c that's what I am and have tons of Asian friends (including the Middle East -- technically West Asia) from different regions of Asia.

How much more do they care about wealth compared to the average western woman?

I'd say a good bit more b/c some expect a lavish life in America or to be a housewife, when brought here (I guess the poorer women)... and others (like my parents who immigrated here, who were well off back "home"), increasingly so, are getting degrees and $$-making careers (see South and East Asian education and career statistics 😅) so they want a man to match that.

also height? I thought their standards on height would be easier to meet since they are shorter.

South Asian women usually have lower standards here, East Asian women have high standards. I think this is partially because of the media portrayed in both regions as well; South and Southeast Asian male celebrities aren't tall, East Asian male celebrities are tall (despite East Asian men still being shorter). Edit: I guess the only thing that stands out for South Asian/Middle Eastern women, even ones born in the West, is that many are just not promiscuous due to religion/culture.

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Can you quantify that? Like we talking 6/7 figure salary?

Like 6 figure, yeah. Asian women who immigrate here are pushed to be making that much too so so they look for men in that income range.

So would a guy who is 5'9 be perceived just as poorly to East Asian women as he would to white western women?

Yeah though if he's good looking or attractive to them (or if he's white he has that going for him), then it won't be as big a deal. Height is definitely a big plus in terms of attraction there.

East Asian women do cohabitate, date and have sex before marriage because they usually aren't held back as much as other Asian women (though I'm guessing some Southeast Asian women would make exceptions for white men w/ money) except maybe some religious Korean women (who I feel usually go for Korean men/Christian men). And though it sometimes seems like white men have an advantage with them (will women of color ever be free ?????), I'd still say they end up marrying their own in large numbers (true for other types of Asian women as well).

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In real life, you’re not the only man who feels that way, but if you are on the internet and on Reddit...yeah, you might be one of the few men who feels that way.

Outdoorsy, Man’s Man types who can’t stay off their feet generally don’t engage with the internet. By contrast, nerds like me flock to the internet because its another medium similar to the ones we already enjoy: Virtual, impersonal, on a screen. So, if you’re on here with the rest of us, its a bit unusual not to at least be entertained by escapist films and shows, whether thats High Fantasy, Superhero stuff, anime, animation, or whatever the case may be.

I guess the appeal lies in how much you value Escapism and Imagination, as expressed through fictional stories on motion picture. It’s really no different than enjoying a theater play featuring Shakespeare or a Greek Tragedy, only one medium is considered “High Class” whereas the other - film and TV - is considered peasant tier, which is ironic given that Shakesperean plays were considered peasant tier by the Monarchs and Aristocrats of his time. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of our contemporary films, like Lord of the Rings, are considered “High Art” in 500 years.

[–]ChibsFilipTelfordd2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I wouldn't consider myself an outdoorsy dude. My hobbies consist of military history, chess, mixed martial arts (watching and training and competing. Currently 0 wins 1 loss lol), hanging out with my family, hanging out with my girlfriend, hanging out with my friends.

I am probably far more extroverted than most ppl on PPD but i also bet that PPD is more extroverted than the population prevalence of extroversion. The main reason I'm here is because it's fun to argue. I'm also on half a dozen political subs on my main account where i argue. Oh yeah and some mil subs like shitwehraboossay to make fun of idiots. It's just fun. I love shit talking. It's a game lol.

I just don't love grand drama incl Shakespeare really. I like Merchant of Venice but that's really the only play i enjoy.

I am neither a monarch nor an aristocrat nor aspiring monarch or aristocrat ha.

The only "nerdy venture" i enjoy is playing Old School Rune Scape Iron Man mode. And i usually afk that while watching military videos lolll

Oh yes also my 2nd masters takes up a ton of my time (about to go in to a zoom now funny enough) so i prefer something like arguing on reddit since it takes like 2min to type a response like this as opposed to how many hours to watch Lord of the ring? Like 12 hours right? They're really long i think

[–]DP84141 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Gotchya. That was interesting to read. Thanks for sharing. Honestly, I'd still say you have traditionally masculine interests and tastes. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but like, as I'm sure you've noticed, Nerd Culture has gone fully mainstream over the last 20 years. A comic book superhero film is the No.1 worldwide grossing movie of all time. Comic Con is attended by celebrities and corporate executives. It's amazing how things have changed.

In my experience, the internet tends to attract more nerdy types like me. That said, I feel you on relishing a good debate, both online and in real life. That's as good of a reason to be on the internet as any. It's still kind of the Wild Wild West of debating and fresh new ideas.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to put you down or shame you for not liking those kind of films and movies, I was just trying to explain why it seems like you feel that you are the only one in these threads who doesn't enjoy them.

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bright positive reaction he has when I accept his help on something i complained about

Men are problem fixers, its what makes us happy.

This is a problem between the sexes. Women like to just bitch about shit and guys are suppose to listen. If guys bitch about stuff they want a solution, so either we try to help (which isn't what women as a rule really want) or we tune out to keep our sanity and women complain we don't listen.

I tell my wife this all the time, I don't want to take my time to listen to her think. She's not asking me to help, shes using me as a excuse to verbalize her thoughts, it bores the shit out of me, its a waste of my time. Men as a rule don't do this. I tell her this but she still does it.

Not all women of course, some 'think' like men, but most just like to blab and blab to process.

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If I saw a “black femcel” complaining that she was “plain and dark skin” I would tell her to strive for the host of darker complexioned women who invest in not being plain and enhancing their natural beauty.

Stick to what was asked. “Short and balding.” I replied to that. You’ve been “amazingly” projecting plaintive ever since.

Those are traits that were mentioned.

For one if you’re balding, shave it the fuck off. A low cut fade or straight bald is always better than crop of hair on receding.

If you’re shorter than 5’9 and bitching about it I’m going to guess you’re not white or black American. Shorter black or white American men have learned how to attract women.

You’re not a short Latino because they don’t bitch like this either.

So imma guess you’re a short Asian-ish man who is trying for white girls? Also swagless?

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Our philosophy on this:

whatever your sexual preference it doesn’t matter to us.
Just don’t settle for someone who doesn’t treat you well
have boundaries
learn to sniff out and avoid predatory types
your self worth is never dependent on someone else’s value of you or your success with women (or men)
if he continues to be straight - women are flawed just like men and to varying degrees. Don’t let lust or love blind you to faults you ultimately won’t be able to live with.
don’t be in a hurry to settle down, date around and figure out who you are what you want from a partner
don’t give up on your dreams for anyone. If they truly love you and it’s worth it they should be willing to compromise
when/if you do make a lifetime commitment ask those hard questions and save yourself drama down the road
marry someone who is your financial, intellectual and emotional equal (but still get a pre nup)
if you bring any OOW babies around we will for sure kill you.

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if i do have kids/a son: i'm raising my son not to be an asshole (unless someone is an asshole to him), but a go-getter. same for any potential daughter. they're both learning to do chores early too 😁idc if he's an "alpha" or a "beta" at all; i care more that he's not an immoral, rude mean person, an abuser, a sociopath, easily susceptible to pressure from his peers, overly conscious of society OR female validation, etc. in fact, ideally i'd want him to be so damn confident that he'll never go down an online loophole and start questioning the validity of his own masculinity (in any case his father and other trusted men can answer any questions)/become obsessed w/ this (stupid imo) alpha-beta dichotomy.

hopefully he'll have good examples in who to look up to and an example of a loving relationship in his parents (i don't want to raise children w/o that).

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Here’s a hot take from someone in Quora:

Sex

To dream about sex refers to the integration and merging of contrasting aspects of yourself. It represents psychological completion. You need to be more receptive and incorporate aspects of your dream sex partner into your own character. Consider the nature of the love-making. Was it passionate? Was it slow? Was it wild? The sex act parallels aspects of yourself that you wish to express.

You had sex with someone you hated:

Enemy

To see your enemy in your dream represents opposing ideas and contradictory attitudes. You are in denial about something or you are rejecting someone. Enemies may also represent the enemies within yourself and the inner conflict you have with yourself. Consider the phrase "I am my own worst enemy." Perhaps you are trying to rid yourself of certain aspects of your character.

To dream that you are dealing with an enemy represents a resolution to some inner conflict or waking life problem.

Since you were having sex with this enemy, that last bit sounds more valid—you are dealing with some conflict within yourself, perhaps, and that’s reflected by the two parts of you (the dream you and the dream enemy are both you) having intercourse.

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Once in a while, we ask if PPD has changed anyone's mind. I usually say no. But now, I think that PPD has actually changed my view on one thing.

I used to believe in trying to get women off. Usually the technique is similar but different women have different quirks and their degree of willingness to share them is all over the fucking place. I'd usually do my best until they came or told me they came or it became apparent that it wasn't happening and we should come back to it later.

After reading PPD though, it's like... why bother?

Apparently, if you're not doing it right, a woman would prefer to fake the orgasm and get it over with instead of telling you what she wants. Also, guys who are eager to please and don't get it right the first time are tiresome at best, weird and offputting at worst. Selfish guys who roll off and fall asleep are at least comfortable and familiar.

Also, lots of guys apparently found that caring about a woman's orgasm was a good way to hamstring their sex lives.

I enjoy making a woman squirm but if the whole exercise is pointless and almost all of them are faking anyway, what is the point?

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We want you to put in an enthusiastic try and above all, make us feel desirable.

Especially the first few times...I would mostly feel good about knowing that the guy was really into me, and if the basics of feeling desired aren’t there, no special technique is going to work. The mechanics of what works for me can be ironed out later. A guy who just spent an hour going down on me? I dunno, maybe my lizard brain says “why do you have no interest in railing me”?

I think there is a fine line between a guy who seems too eager to please vrs a guy who finds us totally irresistible? This is probably the craziest and most mysterious for men to negotiate. I know, I’m not going to say women aren’t impossible , but there is a HUGE difference to me between I am desperate for you and I am desperate to get laid.

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About two weeks. It was a job at a small retail store and they didn't schedule regular shifts for me, they basically wanted me to be "available" and on call for a 4-8 hour window every day in case they got busy and needed me to come in. This system was not explained to me when I applied or interviewed for the job. I was told I would get 25-30 hours a week; what that actually meant was that I was on call for 25-30 hours a week and might work 10 if I was lucky. And I couldn't make any plans or do anything productive during my time off because I needed to be available to come in to work within half an hour if I was called.

I started looking for another job immediately and got one waiting tables. One day about a week into the waitressing job my phone started blowing up from my boss at the retail store wanting me to come in. I didn't answer and he left me a bitchy voicemail about being unreliable. Lol

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I have traded with Warren Buffet’s lieutenants. He is one of the best on Wall Street at “talking his book” (aka telling people to do what will benefit his profits without them knowing his actual positions - which are very much more complex than he lets on). You had best believe that Warren Buffet isn’t putting his money in broad market indexes. He just tells you to do that because:

Broad market index investing underperforms a risk-neutral strategy on an RAR basis. In layman’s terms you are not being appropriately compensated for the risk you are taking (because you don’t really understand the risk you’re taking). Layer on top of that that you can only invest in heavily regulated vehicles with very limited options to profit from the various risk surfaces, whereas he can pretty much do anything he wants.

And what he does is trade the second and third order risk metrics (duration, convexity, volatility, and correlation) across a 3D surface against you, stripping off some of your RAR so that he can have a positive one. I know this, because I used to do the same thing, and still advise others on how to do so effectively.

You walk away happy you’ve won $100 playing roulette (or at best blackjack) at the casino and got a couple of free drinks along the way. He walks away taking the vig. Surely he’s going to keep telling you to do that trade.

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Bruh i was obese it's easier than you think you don't have to eat like a pig to get obese even you just have to eat a lot of calorie dense foods.

My normal junior or senior yr HS day would be (at 6'3 and 270lbs):

Wake up. Eat big bowl of cereal (empty calories like special k, maybe 600-700) plus a piece of toast (200) and a glass of orange juice (200).

Go to school. At lunch time eat a subway footlong. My favorite was the italian one with salami and pepperoni. I looked after i started counting calories. 1000 calories approx. Have 2 subway cookies with it. 300cal.

Eat pre-workout snack. Usually a nature valley bar and some chips. 400 cal.

Go to baseball practice -1200cal of exercise approx for the 3 hours ish

Come home starving and eat a big dinner. Usually my dad cooked a meat a veggie and a side. Say steak with baked potato with cheese and bacon and some asparagus. Maybe mac n cheese or french fries he made in the oven or something. Probably 1300cal.

Eat snack or dessert later. A piece of pie, or some ice cream with caramel sauce or whatever. 500cal.

Overall: 700 + 200 + 200 + 1300+ 400 - 1200 + 1300 + 500 is a net of 3400kcal a day. Which was probably around my TDEE

And while it was certainly too much food, i never gorged my face with big macs and xl pizzas or anything.

It's really easy to overeat nowadays with such calorie dense food. The volume of food of that 4600kcal i ate wasn't even that much compared with the expectation of 4600kcal. If i didnt work out so much i would've probably been 350lbs lmfao

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I’m not saying that’s a bad thing or people should be forced to date boring unattractive people.

I’m saying the reason why people say “being nice doesn’t mean you deserve a relationship”, “being nice is the bare minimum”, or “you’re only nice because you want sex” despite the fact they’re not even dating kind men in the first place is all just an excuse to justify the choices they’re making. Both to themselves and the people they’re talking to.

On paper, being nice, boring, unattractive, and loyal should be a good start to a lasting relationship, and is the exact kind of relationship your parents want you to marry into. No drama, no problems, no arguments, no cheating, no heartbreak, etc.

But nobody wants that because it’s not exciting, it’s not fun, it doesn’t make you giggle or have butterflies. So you choose the loud confident outgoing attractive man who has multiple options and who has a much greater chance of causing drama, problems, arguments, and cheating.

But obviously, you don’t want to tell your parents and people that you didn’t date Ralphy because he’s ugly, short, and boring, because that makes you look shallow and the bad guy. So instead you say he’s only pretending to be nice for sex, and ta-da, now Ralphy is the bad guy and you’re free to look like the innocent victim.

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The so called "nice guys" are absolutely hated by women because it reminds them too much of their own female nature and these guys seem to exhibit female energy a lot more to women's liking.

Women want "nice" behavior, and "gentleman" behavior from men to be free, endless, and on demand, and think we all should walk, talk and act like a reincarnation of Gandhi himself when it comes to sucking up to women's interests, even though they themselves don't give two shits about doing the same for men. In fact feminists actively punish other women for even daring to be nice to men and label it "internalized sexism" or other shit labels.

Nice guys typically use "being nice" as a way to get sex, affection, love because that's what they are told by their (clueless) peers and parents. As you can see, this is transactional in nature, and women hate men who try to bargain with them in some way when it comes to sex,dating, and relationships.

But the thing is women ALWAYS use the carrot that is sex, love and affection to woo the men she wants( who usually happen to be the top 20% men)

They hate nice men because it reminds them too much of their own hypocrisy.

In other words, rules for thee, but not for me is the name of the game.

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It’s not that they won’t be sexual aroused by the person in front of them. But the level of arousal that they need to reach in order to produce a normal behavior is artificially higher now. So just seeing a woman’s body can get them aroused but it’s not enough because porn has raised the bar so high. They need a higher stimulant.

What I meant by it’s not rare for them is that normally, a naked woman should be able to arouse them if they saw one irl. But because they are so exposed to it in porn, they aren’t anymore. They see naked women all the time. Breasts, vaginas, butt, etc doesn’t do the job anymore because they see them so often. A naked women isn’t rare to them anymore. Again, they need a high stimulant. They can hard from women in porn but that’s not only because their body is associating porn video with arousal now, but porn offers so much different other stimulant. The fantasy, scenario, camera angle, specific girls, etc. These things are generally non existent in irl vanilla sex.

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I will never get over how unattractive it is to read men writing things like they are so threatened by women existing.

nice strawman lady.

In real life, men continue to dominate the conversation in thought, power, and action.

Classic apex fallacy. Because, according to bloops, its #blameallmen coz men who hold power whom you can practically count with hands implies all men hold power.

I come onto Reddit and they are all damsels in distress. Its repulsive and dishonest.

That doesn't even make any sense. Did you read my flair? Sounds like you are ranting there. And yeah of course its repulsive to you because its in your nature to shame men into conforming to your toxic unrestrained hypergamous instincts to herd men around for your mating strategy. And I am putting a wrench in your worldview by not playing by your rules.

They can't drum up support because guys do things like framing common decency as "simping".

My real life experiences say otherwise. "common decency" works when the power balance is neutral. Like say, helping a older man/woman with something. Or supporting neutral philanthropic causes. But it never works when it comes to dating, sex and relationships.

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I just had a shower thought. Men’s rights movements say that women’s sexual assault and rape are taken more seriously and has a lot more support. I thought about my own past about sexual assault, which was I was out at a bar, sober, and this drunk/drugged out guy grabbed at me and was saying incoherent things. I told my boyfriend at the time the next day and he got so angry. I was a bit scared but I got over quicker than he did. Same thing with cat calling! Even when I am out with just a guy friend and people cat call, they get annoyed. I concluded that the reason women sexual assault is taken more seriously is because men take it more seriously. I’m not saying than men don’t take men sexual assault seriously or women don’t take sexual assault seriously. And I think it stems from thinking about women kind of like objects. The case with my boyfriend and a few other women I’ve spoken to about the subject, there partners seemed more angry that another man put there hands on their wife or girlfriend, rather than the well being of there girlfriend, if that makes sense. I guess that is the only benefit to being objectified by men is that they will protect you from predatory men. I hope this makes sense. What do you guys think?

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[–]athrowaway2832224 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I can’t count on all my fingers and toes the number of times random women who’ve had too many have grabbed my thighs in the crotch area, rubbed my chest, grabbed my hand and placed it on their breasts or thighs, tried to kiss me, etc while leaning in and whispering “What do you think of this?” or “If I was your woman, I wouldn’t let you out alone” or somesuch - all uninvited.

what the fuck 😰that isn't normal or okay, are you okay? i don't think many men share these same experiences though (what i mean is women don't do this to men all the time) but that sounds really yucky and i would be scared.

If that’s only happened to you once or twice, count yourself fortunate.

nah, even this happening once to someone isn't fortunate and not everyone processes it the same way.

also the typical size differences between men and women makes it a bit of a different experience, I'd think (not right either way).

[–]SeemedGood1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

what the fuck 😰that isn't normal or okay, are you okay? i don't think many men share these same experiences though (what i mean is women don't do this to men all the time) but that sounds really yucky and i would be scared.

I’m fine. It can be slightly annoying, but really it’s no big deal. It’s just women expressing their sexual desire. I see them as human beings who are sexual and I don’t see myself as a victim so it is what it is. No point in letting it upset me as that would just be weird and solipsistic.

No, most men probably don’t have that experience but the few men to whom women are generally actively attracted have that experience all the time, because women have no qualms being physically aggressive with men, and in addition to that they act entitled AF when they are (especially if they think they’re attractive).

i would be scared

And this is your choice, but it’s your choice, you don’t have to be. Why do you choose to be?

[–]athrowaway2832223 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It can be slightly annoying

i'd think it's a bit more than slightly annoying 😅that's also really embarrassing for them to be harassing someone like that.

It’s just women expressing their sexual desire. I see them as human beings who are sexual and I don’t see myself as a victim so it is what it is. No point in letting it upset me as that would just be weird and solipsistic.

sure, but we're not just animals, that sounds feral. what is socially acceptable exists, and also it's abnormal to not care about other people's boundaries. but ofc if it doesn't affect you, it doesn't affect you, it's nice that you're able to take that in stride. i don't think it's so much as seeing yourself as a victim as it is that you don't feel threatened (?) or frustrated by it.

because women have no qualms being physically aggressive with men, and in addition to that they act entitled AF when they are (especially if they think they’re attractive).

i don't know any women who would harass men like this, that's literally embarrassing and a bit shameless, again, to be invading someone's space like that. my closest friends are far from physically aggressive women, though i do know of some -- i don't know if they'd harass men though... tbf when women come onto men (to a certain extent... invading your space and forcing you to touch them, or touching you, etc. w/o consent is still gross), (single) men usually take it positively. either b/c it doesn't happen often or b/c it's just an ego boost or b/c it's not a real threat or b/c it could lead somewhere.

And this is your choice, but it’s your choice, you don’t have to be. Why do you choose to be?

it's not really a choice, i'm always uncomfortable when strangers touch me. it would be even scarier if a stranger of the opposite sex said suggestive things to me, to my face. i don't consider it assault unless he like physically restrains me or blocks me from removing myself, but i would just be shaken up and remove myself from the situation.

[–]Kaisha0012 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Attractive people are like a designer brand that mostly people in first-world countries care to afford. Nature doesn't afford us the luxury of waiting around to find an attractive partner and, again, it's mostly in first-world countries that people are able to relax and enjoy luxuries like attractive genetics. Ever see commoners in third-world countries? They're all fairly unattractive. Their faces have been hardened by strenuous work and sub-optimal nutrition as the sun beats them down everyday. Environments like that require people to group together to survive, much like the rest of hostile nature, so high physical attraction and intellect become less valuable in them, curiously, which is probably why people maintain an average appearance and average intelligence, as they're the ones who reproduce the most.

Objections? Corrections? Insults?

[–]wub12345 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This doesn't directly relate to your point, but recently I've moved from an extremely wealthy area, to a beautiful part of the country which is far more blue-collar.

The difference in physical appearance, particularly among women, is unbelievable. Just the weight difference alone is staggering.

I find that very difficult to understand. For me, it's a matter of personal pride to be physically presentable. I am middle-aged now, but I'm still exactly the same weight as 20 years ago, and I will have the same physique for the rest of my life. If I put weight on, and my clothes start to get tight, I eat extremely clean until I've shed it.

Simply by looking after myself (not in an excessive way at all), I look much younger than my age. I was talking to my cleaner yesterday, and I think she reckons I'm about 35, whereas I'm really about 45! But it's not that surprising, as caring for your appearance in this part of the world seems rather rare. I don't really look younger than my age, I just look younger relative to other people of my age.

It's actually a fascinating insight into social conventions. Where I used to live, it was the done thing to be slim, so everyone conformed to this. You would hardly ever see a woman, in particular, who was overweight. Here, it's normal to be overweight, so I wouldn't say people feel pressure to conform to this, but many people seemingly don't feel any pressure to be slim, healthy and attractive.

I remember being in a bar in my previous residence, and reflecting that literally every woman in there was good looking. And I also remember being in a pub back in my hometown (which is a pretty awful place), and I was waiting for my mum to bring me a beer from the bar, and I reflected that literally every other man in the pub apart from me was fat.

Obviously, there are deep-rooted social conventions and attitudes at play here, but I find it quite strange that people are so willing to be unhealthy and look like shit.

[–]thelajestic4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

but I find it quite strange that people are so willing to be unhealthy and look like shit

If it's what everyone else around you is doing then you're unlikely to think you're particularly unhealthy or that you look like shit.

Lots of people completely lack any kind of education around what is healthy, what makes a balanced meal etc. I know a lot of people who find it perfectly normal to not eat a single fruit or vegetable in an entire day and I also know plenty of people who feed their kids crap and are therefore going to continue this cycle.

I don't necessarily think to be thin is healthy and fat unhealthy either, since a lot of the thin people I know have the same problems with diet but are young enough to get away with it or take drugs and smoke which seems to help keep their weight down. But again, they don't think of this has being unhealthy because it's what their friends do.

In terms of being overweight though - if most people you know are overweight you're likely to think of it as the norm and view thinner people as the unhealthy ones.

[–]wub12341 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]thelajestic2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But people still fundamentally understand that being overweight is unhealthy

People fundamentally understand that not doing exercise, smoking, doing drugs, drinking booze are unhealthy but they still do those things. I think most people are more inclined to go with what's easiest and/or most enjoyable rather than what's healthy.

Somehow, they're just not able to do it. I find it unbelievably difficult to understand, as being slim really isn't hard to achieve.

Probably because you've never been fat and you somehow completely lack the understanding that not everyone is exactly the same as you. If your family is overweight, and you're overweight as a child or teen, it is incredibly difficult to make the wholesale lifestyle changes to lose the weight. In order to lose weight healthily and maintain it you need to have that as your entire lifestyle; most people don't want to change their lifestyle so bad habits start to creep back in and instead their weight yo-yos as they go between dad diets. There is also a genetic component; some people are naturally slimmer and find it easier to keep weight off than others.

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Ever see commoners in third-world countries? They're all fairly unattractive.

I think a lot of them would look as attractive as the "rest of us" if they were able to get a break, dress up, have the same lifestyle, diet, and skincare as attractive people in first world countries. These people are not inherently ugly at all. I see the ~potential~.

Their faces have been hardened by strenuous work and sub-optimal nutrition as the sun beats them down everyday.

Yeah that's right. I feel so soft when I think of this 😔my hands compared to my grandma's hands ...... you can see the privilege bye

Environments like that require people to group together to survive, much like the rest of hostile nature, so high physical attraction and intellect become less valuable in them, curiously, which is probably why people maintain an average appearance and average intelligence, as they're the ones who reproduce the most.

I agree, but also they usually have better bodies than the average people in first world countries, who have an abundance of food and "abuse" that fact (or just have worse genetics in that area from generations past, or a more sedentary lifestyle because of any number of reasons).

So I'm sure people there are still attracted to the beauty in one another.

Intellect... at least in my motherland men and women were valued for their intellect to be able to make it out the rural countryside lmao (a bit like how people want to make it out socioeconomically disadvantaged 'hoods in the West). But yeah, it's not a big deal because not everyone is able to do that and that isn't the expectation. Most people are satisfied with their lives and aware that socioeconomic mobilization may not be possible in this general (and thaaat's why they have so many kids, other than, of course, the lack of access to contraceptives, education on contraceptives, and the fact that many 3rd world countries are religious so kids usually in wedlock are encouraged and abortion is usually discouraged or not possible). They have kids to give a better chance and opportunity to the next generation, although a ton of them will stay at this position (but they still have happiness and hope). I don't think they're all of average looks and intelligence; plenty of bright kids with potential but lack of opportunity or know-how or drive.

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think a lot of them would look as attractive as the "rest of us" if they were able to get a break, dress up, have the same lifestyle, diet, and skincare as attractive people in first world countries.

um nnnnnnno. Maybe relative to their own group, but there's no potential of a glow-up to modern American standards there. They'd be below average over here.

I agree, but also they usually have better bodies than the average people in first world countries,

That's because they eat a more natural diet and are always working and traveling. Here, people can get in their car and drive 20 miles to work everyday where they sit down for most of the day or don't move around that much. All in covered and air-conditioned buildings. I also wouldn't say "better bodies" just because they're thinner. Being barely nourished and skinny isn't any better than being barely nourished and fat.

I don't think they're all of average looks and intelligence; plenty of bright kids with potential but lack of opportunity or know-how or drive.

There can still be "plenty" of people in a minority. I don't know why people always try to inflate these small groups of people by mystifying their numbers with terms like "plenty." Average people are called "average" because they're in the average percentage of the population, which is the majority.

[–]reluctantly_red4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]athrowaway2832222 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

um nnnnnnno. Maybe relative to their own group, but there's no potential of a glow-up to modern American standards there. They'd be below average over here.

Hard disagree. Some of these people have flawless bone structures and much clearer skin than people on this side of the world. Their bodies are nice like I said before, and that already makes them more attractive to some than a good portion of the Western world. They care about weight and how their body looks too, seems like more than some Western people.

That's because they eat a more natural diet and are always working and traveling.

I agree. That's the reason behind the result.

I also wouldn't say "better bodies" just because they're thinner. Being barely nourished and skinny isn't any better than being barely nourished and fat.

Idk if you've ever visited a 3rd world country but they're not all skinny and malnourished, love ❤️Anyway, I think skinny looks better than obese? Maybe? Just imo. But I love how curvy women look, of course (they look better than severely underweight women for ex), especially to a certain extent, and people can look good at bigger weights too.

Just saying that I think their bodies just look better en masse than many people here who have the resources but can't take care of themselves properly for various lifestyle reasons.

There can still be "plenty" of people in a minority. I don't know why people always try to inflate these small groups of people by mystifying their numbers with terms like "plenty." Average people are called "average" because they're in the average percentage of the population, which is the majority.

Mmm, I guess. I still stand by the fact that what a lot of them are missing is good education and opportunity. It makes me feel lucky everyday to be born and raised here, to educated parents, etc. etc. because it's really a privilege taken for granted.

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It’s like wearing high heels: there’s a ladylike discipline involved with wearing high heels or a corset…or pencil skirts. Suddenly you have to change the way you are in the world, and I think makeup and hair are a little like that.

...

In my book, I’ll have all kinds of things in it that you just don’t do around guys—like how I do my hair if a guy’s watching, how to make the process glamorous, so it doesn’t look crazy. I won’t go around with the hot rollers and all the clips in front of a guy that I’m dating, so, I know how to curl my hair with a curling iron, and use duckbill clips so it looks nice when I’m doing it.

For some weird reason I read an old interview with Dita Von Teese. It's interesting how we're all different. I have a friend with similar attitude, she's the best at makeup and she's gorgeous. From the other hand, I value comfort over beauty and I don't wear any makeup. Partially because I prefer people like or dislike my own appearance and not what I can draw.

But I'm curious whether it's really that important to stay "mysterious". Also whether it's even possible when you're married and live together.

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My dog drank snow water for three days you have to melt a lot of snow for a bowl of water. I got water today and then a local girl who lives out of my neighborhood said I can go to her house to fill up my five gallon collapsible. A bunch of us bugged the shit out of the local news and got a story on TV because we were the hardest hit in the area and all the elected officials ignored us. Our stupid Governor won't bring in FEMA or National Guard so it is a weird patchwork of people getting water out. Memphis sort of has water. Poor folks and old folks in highrise buildings don't.

A local Jeep club got all the healthcare workers to work and donated water to the hospitals including me.People rag on BLM but they were helping the poor folks and shut ins in the city. Now my gym is open so I can shower there. Total clusterfuck on a smaller scale like if you include Mississippi maybe a million people impacted. Apparently we have some piping from the 1930's. My public utility was talking about pulling off from the state entity but that was the only reason we did not lose all power they diversify the source.

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Yep. It annoys me that everyone is circlejerking about hurr hurr dumb redneck Texans when other cities/states are dealing with the same thing (albeit on a smaller scale) for the same reasons.

When this storm was first forecast it was supposed to be a day of snow and maybe three days of sub freezing temps. That's what people prepped for. It ended up being eight days of sub freezing temps, and five different storms, one after the other. The forecast literally got worse every day and by the time it was clear this was going to be a week-long ordeal the roads were already not passable and the stores were either closed or out of food or both.

I read recently that the roads in Minnesota buckle and explode during prolonged heatwaves. You know what state doesn't have this problem? Texas, because we're used to months on end of 100+ temps and design our roads accordingly. I could be like "lol dumb fucking midwesterners, how hard is it to build a road?" orrrrr I could have sympathy for the fact that places plan for the weather they're likely to have and occasionally a freak accident of nature happens and wrecks your shit.

Edit: lol pregnancy brain strikes again, I mean sub freezing not sub zero

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The Jeep has higher ground clearance and off road capability obviously but the Subie has at least a foot higher ground clearance than my current car and better gas mileage than a Jeep once gas prices go up. My mom has an older one maybe 2014 so I am familiar with them. My Rav4 has been very good in many ways. It was the last 6 cylinder they ever made . I don't want a car note. I don't have to buy a car this minute unless I have at major repair but when that moment comes I want to know what I want so I do not get too tangled up in the game. I know several people with 4runners that like them and my mom had a Ford Explorer that lasted forever. I have a list in my head and I am just going to passively keep my eyes peeled in case some amazing deal pops up which never happens with Subaraus even in my truck and big SUV dominated market.

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Kitty litter is better than smelly water. I don't know how much more evidence people need that the US is not a superpower but a collection of fragile feudal trade districts that look functional under optimal conditions. I should have learned my lesson when shear winds knocked out power in Memphis for 10 days in 2003. The city looked like a bomb went off and after a couple of days the cops were stretched out and random people just took turns directing traffic at major intersections. But we never lost water. After that I always had a flashlight and battery collection for literally every room plus two for the car. I always had food and some stupid bin of freeze dried food.

I had just enough water this time. I would love to buy a cheap ATV but I am at 125K on my car. For a few days ATVs were the only mobile vehicles.

Katrina should have been the wakeup call but nope not really.

As I said before everybody who offered me a bit of help, water, a place to stay, a shower it was all poor and working class people. A couple of wealthy friends chastised me for lacking "patience" and I had to have a little conversation with one. I get why he was defensive I was bashing the leadership of our utility company for not asking for help soon enough and he is an in house counsel for them. He has water and I was like son if I want to sound like a crazy bitch I gonna sound like one you can not converse with me . I will say my two closest buddies who could not help because they were trapped in their houses and had water kept tabs on me.

I just don't know how many times we need to have these system failures that we call anomalies when in fact they are reflective of reality before people rethink some things. They won't I know.

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Granted, I work for a veritable Incel Inc. (aka. a locally owned Doordash clone with 90+% male workforce) but when I think of failed to launch men I don't so much think of NEETs as post-college (usually some undergrad to a BA) underemployed men who work as little as necessary to afford their weed/videogames/tendies/capeshit or hard drugs/alcoholism/bar tabs (There tends to be a dichotomy between the two groups where the former are slower/lazier but happier and lower maintenance than the latter.) while living in a cheap apartment or at home, most likely driving a car they didn't pay for, and still relying on the occasional bailout or loan from family compared to the full-timers who actually make decent money and are financially independent (but still likely to be single/childless and fall into the vidya or drunkenness category, the main difference being that the full-time drunks can rack up some scandalous bar tabs).

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What do you guys think about separating an artist from their art?

Maybe I'm problematic or whatever but I have no cognitive dissonance enjoying the art of a bad person.

Phil Spector was a literal murderer. He was also a genius. I'm not going to not listen to some of the best and most important music of the 20th century because the person who made it was a piece of shit. It really just doesn't make sense to me; me listening to his music isn't an endorsement of his morals or the way he lived his life. It's just that, listening to music that I enjoy.

There are some artists who I'm a fan of as people as well as their music. There are some artists who I'm a fan of as people without liking their music all that much. And there are some artists who I'm a fan of their music without liking them as people. To me it's always a separate thing.

I guess if you do feel morally conflicted about it, you can pirate his music so he's not actually making money off of you. But that's complicated too for other reasons I don't feel like getting into lol

Edit: Also I wonder, like, how far does this go? If you won't consume the art of someone who did a bad thing, do you apply that to other products? Are you researching the background of everyone who had a hand in making your car or your cell phone? Or hell, even with music, the artist might not be problematic but how do you know the producer or sound engineer or studio guitarist isn't? Why do we single out the recording artists in particular? (Not asking you these questions, just illustrating a principle.)

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Not every older man can get consistent pussy (in fact I'd say most can't, especially after the.. hmm.. the male plateau in appearance which can be pretty drastic especially b/c women take better care of themselves), so marrying someone (even "post wall") is than nothing (fertility isn't an issue if kids aren't a concern at that point lmao). Plus, like you mentioned it could be love ("absolute literal soulmate" as you put it).

I know fine older men who chose to marry in their age range instead of creeping down. Well, in this day and age, most of the men I know in their 30s married women in their 30s (some were religious marriages so the women were most likely virgins or very small n counts if that matters, and both people in these marriages were extremely educated and decently high earning), late 20s being the lowest point. For men in their 40s, add a decade onto each of their ages. Some men and women are able to look attractive in their 30s and 40s.

So yeah... it's subjective. I'm saying this as a zoomer 🙈

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If you starve women of all male attention

Which will never happen. This is like the start of a dystopian sci-fi novel

they can fall in love with most men who give them attention

Except you’re ignoring the innate attraction women feel for the top 20% of men based on looks alone (as born out by all of the OLD studies you guys post). The only chance bottom tier men have is running personality game in-person

In other words, paying attention to women and interacting with them

Without that, you’ll get the IRL version of what already happens on OLD - when forced to go off looks alone, with no interaction at all, women only go for the men they find hot and compete for their attention

The problem is and always will be female hypergamy

No, the problem is that women need men to interact with them in order to find lesser looking guys attractive. So your very premise - men not giving women attention - is bound to create more harems for Chads, not less

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The reason I think that (I actually saw a few tiktoks about the stance and it made sense to me lmao) is b/c in reality you'll need to use your knowledge combined with resources available to you (which you will usually have access to). For ex, even doctors are constantly googling and researching things all the time. But a key part is having that knowledge as well, but I guess if not open note, then at least a page or two available to write relevant notes on. After all, it's not just remembering what you are taught/exactly how you are taught it, it's how you apply that.

i don't know if its actually tough or if I just hated learning it lol

It definitely looks tough to me, maybe b/c my elementary/middle schools only really focused on Romance languages (specifically French and Spanish; I continued Spanish in high school and b/c of so many cognates it's actually pretty easy to learn! but now I have to continue in college or test out of it 😐).

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I’m relatively tall myself and have actually dated guys my height or shorter than me. And over 6’1? Too tall. Not to get graphic, but been there done that and let’s just say that things didn’t line up in a way that suited me.

Yeah, I prefer men 5’11” to 6’1. A short guy has to have something else to kind of sweeten the deal. My husband is 5’11” . I do love the way my head falls on his shoulder, the way his arm feels around me, the way I can look up for a kiss, and look down and bury my head in his chest. And we women can absolutely be reactive but also narcissistic, lol. I’m a taller woman and I like that a tall man makes me feel smaller and feminine.

I mean it suks balls for short men, not gonna lie, but it’s like age for women. Men will always prefer the look of a younger woman. If you aren’t tall...gotta compensate with bringing other attractive qualities to the table. Becoming lean and fit certainly helps, but that overly buff look is a turn off to me.. GHEY

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Ditching a committed relationship is a whole different topic. No, it’s not okay if I ditch my husband because he ends up in a wheelchair

Deciding who we want to be in a relationship with is more than height or looks or any one thing. Imho, physical attraction needs to be there in some form though. The shorter guy I dated was incredibly cute, and also really funny, kind, and thoughtful. My ex of 7 years was only 5’8” AND A HALF as he would remind me, and he remained physically attractive to me till the bitter end.

’That being said, it’s okay that men try for younger in my book. Few can succeed though. My best friend is married to a guy 22 years older.

DiCaprio is starting to look like a middle aged sugar daddy rather than a genuinely hot guy able to inspire lust in a 25 year old. Jared Leto though? That dude is almost 50 and I could totally see him pulling a 25 year old who thought he was the sexiest man alive

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Attraction for getting into the relationship is one thing. Commitment is a totally different concept.

Can loss of attraction be justified for ending a committed relationship? I guess. If my husband let himself get morbidly obese? I certainly would try to get him to lose weight. If he didn’t try in the least, I might assume he no longer felt like putting in any effort into a relationship.

But if he gets sick? This is not a hypothetical. He has already lost one brother and will soon lose a second to a degenerative disease. He is my husband. I made a commitment to him and have zero intentions of bailing.

If you have plans judging your partner to be unworthy due to circumstances beyond their control? That is by definition, not a committed relationship.

I’m fine if you want to live the DiCaprio lifestyle and dump women when they hit 27. If you can pull it off ? Mazel tov. He is not in committed relationships and any woman dating him who thinks his is , is delusional.

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It took me the longest to accept the fact that women are obsessed about height. I understood their preference for status, attractiveness, etc. but for so long I was thinking that height was just a minor preference like blonde vs brunette.

I understand the need to have someone stronger/bigger than you, but why it has to be the top percentage guy that is 6'+ and a whole head taller than the woman? Like there is absolutely no equivalent from male perspective regarding what we look for in a woman. There is a whole spectrum with basically everything - cow tits to flat chests, huge ass to small butt, very slim to chubby... there is no universal cutoff for any of these traits like there is with height. I can't wrap my head around this.

It made me feel more insecure about my height than about any other trait.

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It all comes down to strength and power.

It goes back to tribal days in the wild, if you planned to have kids with a 5’6 man, you exposing both yourself and your baby to literally any single bad 6’2 human in the world from attacking you, the 5’6 man cannot and will not be able to defend you from an attack by a 6’2 man. The 6’2 man is stronger and faster than the 5’6 man and will absolutely manhandle him if he wanted too.

Whereas if you had a baby with a 6’2 man, the odds of encountering a human who’ll attack and win are drastically lowered, the 6’2 man will be able to manhandle any shorter guys, and likely win fights against any average guys. Meaning you and your baby are relatively safe.

Plus your baby boy will turn into 6’2 too, which means he has a much greater chance of surviving when he’s an adult.

It’s a completely biological incentive and almost every single mammal on earth has the same instinct, get pregnant with the largest male with the most resources for the best chances of surviving. Humans are no different.

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I have no doubt that Drexel kids are getting robbed now, maybe even by the children of people I know.

Some of my extended family has lived in Mantua, Powelton Village, and University City from the 1950s so I know the area (and people in it) decently well.

After not having spent much time there for well over a decade I went back right around 2000 to do MBA recruiting at Wharton for the investment bank I was working for at the time and decided to cruise down a couple of streets where my parents owned a couple of houses and where I had spent some time during my youth.

I had driven down from NYC, had a very nice car, and was a little hesitant about parking it in Mantua to get out and walk around. As I turned onto a block where we had a house that I had lived in for a year as a child, I saw some guys who were in the process of stealing the wheels off of a parked car scatter and disappear into the alleys. I parked at the end of the block, got out, and could tell that I was being watched. As I was standing looking at one of the houses we own and letting memories of my childhood in that neighborhood flood back, one of the men emerged from an alley and approached me.

I started heading back to my car as casually as possible, but still feeling a little nervous, and the man called out my name with a tone of disbelief. A couple of other men emerged and approached me right after he repeated my name questioningly.

Turns out these were dudes I had known as a child, with whom I had played street baseball, basketball, and football, ridden bikes all over the city, listened to the first rap albums during summer evenings, one of whom had shown me the first pistol I ever saw IRL. I had gone to a private school on the Main Line, and they had attended the neighborhood public schools, but they had been my neighborhood buddies that year. As we caught up I was utterly stunned at how differently our lives had evolved in that moment.

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Well according to wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest#Shootings):

Emergency dispatchers received the first reports of gunshots at 10th Avenue and East Pine Street at 2:19 a.m.[145] A 19-year-old black man, Horace Lorenzo Anderson Jr., was transported to Harborview Medical Center by volunteer medics. With multiple gunshot wounds, he was pronounced dead at 2:53 a.m.[144][148][149][8] A local rapper known as "Lil Mob", Anderson had graduated from high school the previous day.[144][145][150]

He lived in the area.

Also other issues locals had to deal with:

The New York Times reported in August that during the zone's existence, some small business owners were intimidated by demonstrators with baseball bats, asked to pledge loyalty to the movement and choose between CHOP and the police, put on a list of "cop callers", harassed, or threatened with death by a mob. A group of small-business owners sued the city for abandoning them and forcing them to pay private security companies to protect them.[31]

Also...

The following day, police chief Carmen Best said: "Rapes, robberies and all sorts of violent acts have been occurring in the area and we have not been able to get to it."

etc...

By any measurable aspect CHAZ was worse than the Capitol protests. Not that I really care, both sides are equally at fault. The issue here is idiots happily believing the MSM, not which side is 'worse'.

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The Secret Societies do exist, they exist at the core of the Coastal Establishment, and that is well known. Their history and influence in the centers of American (and European) political and economic power is also well known and well documented.

What is less well known is that at their center is worship of the Light Bearer (in various forms), which is surrounded by a veneer of secular humanism. You only get to see that when you’ve been in one for a minute.

It is also less well known that the recruitment for these societies actually starts in certain elite high schools. Like other aspects of such schools, they are very much modeled after those of the colleges for which these high schools are feeders. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_school_secret_societies)

What you suggest is rumor, isn’t just that. The Bohemian Grove actually exists, meetings of some of the inner core of the Coastal Elite actually occur there. The “Round Table Groups” and their offshoots are real. The various meetings of the “global elite” are real, and they really do discuss the collective and collaborative administration of world affairs at them.

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A excerpt from a certain sub that was on the front page today, this post has over 34k upvotes at the time of me writing this:

The title of the thread said, words equating to "trans women arent a real threat to women's sports, coaches who are sexual predators are. "

A pinned post in the replies by a moderator says

"Trans women are women, and deserve full equality in all spaces including sporting. TERFs, as always, can fuck right off. "Allies" who want to argue against trans rights selectively, the science is against you and the International Olympic Committee is against you. Go do some learning, and come back when you're ready to engage helpfully instead of being a roadblock.

Any transphobia in this thread (or anywhere on this subreddit) will be met with an immediate and permanent ban."

Thoughts? Im kind of suprised it got that many upvotes tbh.

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I have water!!!!! We are still under a boil water order but who cares. Several people in my neighborhood harassed the shit out of the media and elected officials. There is this old guy everybody calls the Mayor of our area because he knows everybody and everything was interviewed on TV after finally getting somebody from the state emergency board to get us some water at least for the livestock. Suddenly after that the suburban bitch who is our County Commissioner sponsored some water distribution events. By then we were all sharing what water we had with one another.

It was a super interesting experience. I think when my local civic group starts having in person meetings I am going to start going. The mother of one of my work colleagues turns out to be a neighbor and she asked her mom to check on me. It is hard to tell who is a neighbor because we are all rural and spread out but thanks to FB we were able to share info and help others.

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It’s insane tbh when I first started I went crazy like absolute zero thoughts about women.

you were able to do this from the start?

I actually discovered porn when I was 5 so that fucked up my brain.

this sounds so sad :( how?

no social anxiety on that end.

i have social anxiety in general in new situations but it gets comfortable after a while.

After about 30 days of no lust I was able to talk to a hot girl during a project in school just fine huge improvement for me.

you're funny, this sounds like an advertisement haha.

Idk it was kinda like when I started I had an intense desire to quit I just blocked out any lustful thoughts. I’m sure meditation helps a lot and also staying busy throughout the day.

Transmuting sexual energy with yoga, lifting, meditation, etc help.

this is a good mindset especially because it'll help you focus on school. my libido only really started up at 16, but i have pretty good self control over my body + strict parents so it didn't affect my performance at all. even now, it doesn't but if i want to avoid casual sex i need to block them out lmao

i don't lift, just cardio, yoga, and i try to meditate when i can but i need to find time for it. praying is meditative though.

My gym performance is insane on semen retention as-well there are studies proving androgen receptor up regulation. Test probably rises a bit too.

interesting.

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I will only speak to marriage, as the situation you described happening in anything outside of that is fucking stupidity. Leave the relationship If you don't like it, simple as that.

For marriage, take an active role in the relationship and stop taking it for granted. It's often as easy as you and your partner just making a conscious effort to reaffirm the devotion and commitment you have for each other. That is it. There are far too many relationships where people stop treating their partner like they love them out of laziness, fatigue, "things getting in the way" or some equally bullshit excuse. Nothing, not your kids, your job, your "life", should stop you from actively letting your partner know that you are the #1 priority in their life.

If they aren't #1 (and that includes above the kids in anything outside of life and death, sorry parents) then you have failed as a partner and that's the fucking truth...

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Because the way it’s interpreted by men who don’t understand female sexuality is bullshit. It does not mean that a woman cannot be attracted to a man who is subjectively less attractive than her new man.

A true alpha widow would be the woman who spent her 20s partying with the beautiful people, hit the wall hard (both in terms of looks and hedonistic fatigue) and found herself having to settle because she has fewer options. A real life example would be a sports or music groupie. Definitely that type of woman is never going to be satisfied married to mild mannered Joe the corporate manager. The point RP is trying to make is don’t be captain save a ho to woman who let herself get used up and now wants a meal ticket.

To believe this applies to all or even most women is bitter black pill bullshit from insecure inexperienced men who do not get nuance and don’t know how to vet.

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Anyone else fed up with the idea that we are SUPPOSED to root for a woman in a movie just on the basis of her gender, regardless of character?

I don't root for anyone in a movie. I just watch and enjoy. Anyone who is projecting themselves or some part of their reality into the movie probably has some subconscious issues that they need to get out. I've never understood people who do this.

For instance, Netflix's newest addition 'I Care A lot' starring Rosemund Pike. Apparently you're supposed to be rooting for this asshole for being "strong and independent"?

They're trying to appeal to progressives and more liberal-minded people by making these feminism-friendly movies that design a male character role and simply sub in a woman, because the only way that a woman can be "badass" is if she's acting like her masculine male-equivalent, amirite?

I root for a character on the basis of their character, not gender, and you should too.

Squints Palledorous was a legend in The Sandlot though.

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Anyone following the Glenn Greenwald Twitter drama about being labeled a transphobe? Here's his response video.

And here is the data and polling about the increase in self-identified LGBTQ people in gen z that he was commenting on, which got him into hot water.

From what I can tell, despite claiming that he believes LGBTQ people (and trans people in particular) deserve equal rights and respect, he made two statements that angered the Twitter mob:

First, he observed that, in recent years and in specific spaces (like leftist spaces, universities, the media and arts, and among youth online culture in general) the privilege-valence of LGBTQ status has reversed; meaning that you actually gain privilege and status by identifying this way in these cultures, and that this might create a somewhat insincere incentive to identify as LGBTQ, not wholly based on pure sexuality.

Second, he pointed out the part of the data focusing on bi identifying people, where those identifying as bi were asked if they had ever been in a same-sex relationship, and the vast majority said no.

So these two statements are interesting, and not necessarily controversial or phobic to my eye, but I can also see how Greenwald must've been self-aware enough to realize how this would play out.

It does come across a little "get off my lawn" and "no, it's the children who must be wrong" from Glenn, but I do kind of respect his old-school gay guy curmudgeonly attitude. I'm sure he went through hell as a kid for his sexuality and paid a price for it, and the new crop of Gen Z status-seeking posers must seem really fake in comparison.

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i have mixed feelings on cancel culture. on one hand, huge celebrities or billionaires can't really be "cancelled". on the other hand, some people can be effectively cancelled and then it's the moral dilemma on whether people can change or not based on when they said what they said, whether what they said determines them to be "cancelled" out from their university and/or employers (and the matter of free speech), and whether their apology was "sincere" or not. at this point i just feel sad about it/it gets tiring b/c everyone has said 1) stupid stuff and/or 2) stuff they may not still believe and/or 3) not socially acceptable opinions/unpopular opinions (which deserve more discussion/debate than straight up cancelling i think)....

anyways, cancel culture has exposed some nasty behaviors of people that i no longer want to "support" aka watch their videos or listen to their stuff or read/watch what they have to say, etc. but simultaneously it can be too much. i can understand why people would dislike it lmao.

[–]_mwk3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

i dont think I can remember one effective cancelling other than shane dawson and even then he cancelled himself and it's his, what, 5th cancelling? it never works when it needs to and all it does is make ppl tip toe around what they say.

the twitter mob also is never happy about apologies, either the apology is insincere or too late but it doesn't make sense. you can't sincerely apologise in 3h AND some things do not deserve an apology. im sorry but a small group of ppl being offended by what I do does not deserve a "formal apology" and monk like introspection, its impossible to NEVER offend anyone

I think cancel culture is simply organised harassment and stalking, it never works correctly and is basically only harming the small creators/people who do not have a PR team to do damage control. it's organised virtual bullying

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i dont think I can remember one effective cancelling

Hmm, I was thinking more along the lines of when people post about actively bigoted people from their town/school/workplace and it gains traction on social media, cancelling them (people reach out to institutions and workplaces and the cancelling has real life effects). Guess it just shows there's consequences, and I get it b/c I wouldn't want an undercover racist as my doctor, teacher, co-worker, etc. for example. But on the other hand... how do they redeem themselves? I never really know about what comes after the fact so I can see how it becomes unfair.

As for "famous" people, yeah Shane Dawson comes to mind. People try and try again for Jeffree Star, Trisha Paytas, Azealia Banks (who has popular music and people constantly say "I can't defend her but her music is good...."), etc. and it does effectively work for celebrities like Sabrina Claudio (who had a scandal w/ being racist around the time when she could have really blown up, which is why most people probably haven't heard of her b/c she could have been really big) or even Daniel Caesar specifically w/ the black community (though, like most people w/ decent music, people still listen sneakily -- I guess that's the matter of separating art from music) -- though idk if he did anything that bad.

the twitter mob also is never happy about apologies, either the apology is insincere or too late but it doesn't make sense.

Mostly true, but I have seen some successful apologies. The one that comes to mind immediately is Jenna Marbles, everyone thought she was the most genuine and she removed herself to "reflect" but people wanted her back immediately, she was even trending on Twitter b/c people didn't understand the cancelling (since a lot of her jokes were at a very different time in which stuff was a bit more acceptable, similar to Shane but he kept fucking up).

Otherwise... I can't even remember if Pewdiepie apologized or if it was a "decent" apology if he did lmao, but he is very easily forgiven for anything he did in the past. I guess he's one of those un-cancellable people. I can't think of other examples.

im sorry but a small group of ppl being offended by what I do does not deserve a "formal apology" and monk like introspection, its impossible to NEVER offend anyone

I agree, it's impossible to never offend anyone. But I think apologies are deserved when someone is being bigoted, or when someone grows from a stance. Apart from that, yeah, people should be allowed to have unpopular opinons and say whatever... but when you're explicitly being derogatory towards a group of people (BIPOC people, gay people, etc. so, especially protected minorities) publicly especially, I get how that would be a bigger deal.

I think cancel culture is simply organised harassment and stalking, it never works correctly and is basically only harming the small creators/people who do not have a PR team to do damage control. it's organised virtual bullying

I get your perspective. To me it's always a case-by-case basis on which I make judgments b/c I get both sides. Sometimes Twitter just wants drama and it's really just stupid. Sometimes someone is really being exposed for being a shit person that hurts others with their words and/or actions, and I just stop supporting.

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It's harder to date same sex when you're bi due to having a much smaller pool to pick from, in addition to very widespread biphobia amongst the community. Many gay and lesbian people think bi people are either just straight and pretending, or they're gay but lying to themselves.

Popular media is full of examples of characters that could realistically be bi but they're portrayed as just being straight until suddenly they are gay/lesbian even if they have a previous track record of real love and attraction to the opposite sex. And I've seen more than one TV show where the characters debate whether bisexuality really exists, calling it everything from being greedy to attention seeking. It's only recently that there's been more of an effort to have visible bi characters who keep a bi identity - which may account in part towards people now feeling more able to come out.

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Not necessarily. Lots of people might identify as bi but be extremely selective of who they're out to, so the same sex bi people might not know each other in order to date. 11.5 is still a very small percentage. It's around the same as left handed people for instance. Now, left handers have a very obvious tell - they write with their left hand - but despite this, there are people I have known for years before we both discovered we were left handed. Since being bi has no obvious tells - aside from seeing someone date people of different genders - it's fair to assume that it may take even longer for people to discover it than it takes to discover the lefties.

It's also extremely common for bi people who are dating someone of the opposite sex to kind of retreat back into the closet (purposefully or otherwise) even if they were previously out. I was out at my first job but then I was engaged to a man by the time I started my second job so it felt like it would be a really weird thing to bring up. I'd worked there about 8 years before it ever came up, and it was purely because I was single again and on a work night out we were served drinks by a woman I'd met on tinder. But if you don't use tinder and you date within your social circle and don't want to bring up that you're bi because you've known them all for years and don't know how to mention it, no one is going to know you're bi and you cut your dating opportunities right down.

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meaning that you actually gain privilege and status by identifying this way in these cultures,

This is false imo 😅Homophobia (and similar forms of bigotry) may not be socially acceptable, but it is rampant still.

Second, he pointed out the part of the data focusing on bi identifying people, where those identifying as bi were asked if they had ever been in a same-sex relationship, and the vast majority said no.

It's much more difficult to get into same sex relationships, since you can't assume your person of interest likes you back (b/c the LGBTQ community is far, far, far from the majority; I can find the community online but I can't find the community in person, especially b/c so many are closeted b/c of religion) and people may not have the time to scope out ~the community~ in their area (especially if they don't live in a city/town with a lot of other LGBTQ identifying people, or where people are closeted). Bisexual people are lucky in that they can just "straight-pass". Plus, plenty of (both heterosexual AND bisexual) people are biphobic specifically, this is especially an issue for bi men, so...

A study that accounts for the experiences of bi identifying people to address this would be interesting.

It does come across a little "get off my lawn" and "no, it's the children who must be wrong" from Glenn, but I do kind of respect his old-school gay guy curmudgeonly attitude.

Agree w/ this.

I'm sure he went through hell as a kid for his sexuality and paid a price for it, and the new crop of Gen Z status-seeking posers must seem really fake in comparison.

Sure, zoomers have it much easier than he did. That was the goal. I really don't think most LGBTQ zoomers are status-seeking posers, they are exploring and discovering themselves and feel more open to do so.

[–]NeuroplasticSurgery3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

This is false imo 😅Homophobia (and similar forms of bigotry) may not be socially acceptable, but it is rampant still.

Local to the cultures I mentioned, like academia, the media, mainstream Twitter, I don't think bigotry is rampant any longer; if anything this episode is evidence of an overcorrection. The world is fragmented, so bigotry will always exist somewhere, but I think it's fair to say this particular type of bigotry really has no purchase on the mainstream national discourse.

Sure, zoomers have it much easier than he did. That was the goal. I really don't think most LGBTQ zoomers are status-seeking posers, they are exploring and discovering themselves and feel more open to do so.

It was the goal, I agree, but it was expected that the trend would overswing, and this poll may be more evidence of the aforementioned overcorrection, and potential insincere incentives. Not definitive evidence of course but enough to start the conversation.

I don't think the reaction to Greenwald's statements is rational. Expected, for sure, and I'm positive he knew that, but that doesn't make it fair.

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Local to the cultures I mentioned, like academia, the media, mainstream Twitter, I don't think bigotry is rampant any longer;

I think it's fair to say this particular type of bigotry really has no purchase on the mainstream national discourse.

I agree with this. Just saying that real life experience is different from what the media promotes though. Plus, even interacting with different people on social media will tell you that the bigoted attitudes are still rampant no matter how much the media tries to suppress them.

It was the goal, I agree, but it was expected that the trend would overswing, and this poll may be more evidence of the aforementioned overcorrection, and potential insincere incentives. Not definitive evidence of course but enough to start the conversation.

Eh, I don't think it's a "trend" really, but I do agree with you otherwise, it's enough to start the conversation. I think it's a matter of how he phrased things... and I can see how people would get offended.

I don't think the reaction to Greenwald's statements is rational. Expected, for sure, and I'm positive he knew that, but that doesn't make it fair.

I do agree.

[–]skystar862 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes, it's easier to have LDRs and online relationships, that's true, but I'd say most zoomers (kids, and I guess young adults) are still dating from their pool of accessibility irl, as in what's closest to them (school, college, etc.). That changed due to the pandemic, sure, and plenty are in "relationships" just over the Internet even (quotation marks because a lot of these are short lived and just to fill up time/loneliness in which the two people don't even meet many times, I've noticed).

I'd still say that kids/young adults are hopeful in finding relationships and/or hook-ups in their circles and most that I know only use OLD as a form of validation or as a last resort due to the pandemic. Therefore, I'm not surprised that most bi people have had little to no same-sex relationships. That doesn't mean their attraction is invalid. Me on one hand, I literally don't know what my sexuality is or how to define it lmao, bicurious? Heteroflexible? Just bisexual altogether? I'm not sure, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Not to mention there's a good number of religious people still in the world, including myself, and I'm sure there's that struggle between religion (or at least culture and how someone was raised) and sexuality for many which makes it hard (mental blocks wise) or even dangerous/difficult/risky to get into same-sex relationships.

I also know a ton of young people who are open with their close friends, or with just their online friends, but haven't come out to their family/parents/etc. who would judge. More people are in the closet than you know.

[–]skystar860 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I meant physically not hard

I guess so.

porn and plastics

What do you mean plastics?

Also, personally out of my really close friends/acquaintances I've grown up with, most are straight (w/ their gay moments lmao) with staunch acceptance of gay people (except for maybe a few extremely devout people I know).

In fact, the overwhelming amount of people anywhere are still straight.

My (private) college is as heterosexual as can be, my (public, inner-city) high school was much more accepting and no one cared about sexuality, people just dated, had sex with, and befriended whoever, whatever the gender.

the change in sexuality also birth control in the water.

BC in the water? Highly doubt. I think the "change in sexuality" is more social than biological/hormonal. It has to do with people being more comfortable than ever before in history with exploring and labeling themselves with something other than straight. Straight people are still the majority; the Internet is just a place where unique people gain exposure and acceptance, so it's no wonder the LGBTQ+ community seems to be flourishing online and in urban hotspots.

I think companies are promoting rainbow stuff to make us overlook them changing the hormones.

Hmm, I think companies are promoting rainbow stuff to seem socially "in" and not "homophobic" but in "support" of the community so to speak. Idk about the change in hormones, I thought a lot of that stuff was debunked, but if anything I don't think it would have an effect on sexuality which is more genetic and environmentally influenced than anything (like I believe it's something you're born with, a tendency to lean towards a flexible sexuality or not).

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Interesting study. I'll look more into this, but I personally don't know a young woman who would trade physical attraction for money lmao. I think physical attraction is just expected. Yesterday I saw a popular TikTok of this sugar baby (she has a TikTok for sugar baby experiences in NYC) on a date w/ this gross man and reading the disgusted comments, I remember reading one that stuck out to me, it was basically about how sugaring could work in the short term or if you look for men who don't require sex or something, but this sort of arrangement will only ever work if you're actually attracted to old men (which isn't most young women, it feels like they either stand it for the $$ or are attracted to the few hot older men that every other person on Earth is attracted to). Judging by comments, attraction matters.

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[–]YoMamas_azz2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There are different beliefs in TRP and you are conflating some of them:

There are those who want to be trad, but have chosen TRP as they believe it is not feasible to be trad in current day

There are those who do not want marriage, and would not want marriage and who are simply enjoying the decline

There are those who believe in the framework set out by TRP and still choose to get married. (MRP).

The evolutionary factors in which mean are drawn to women, in many ways have to do with making healthy children, but this will effect men's attraction to women regardless of it they want children or not.

The underlying attraction is mostly unchangeable, regardless of trying to rationalize it away on a conscious level.

As for prime aged women being attracted on average to certain ages of men, this is true, (though it usually trends a few years older not the same age).

But this does not change the fact that men are attracted to what they are attracted to, and some men either are at the level of being able to obtain prime age women despite being older, as they have compensated for it in other ways, or have the ceiling of being able to reach this level, and are striving towards it. Though yes obviously, this is more of an individual fix and only for those who it applies to, and for the average guy their best bet at getting prime aged women is to be around their age.

Some people are late bloomers, and can compensate in other ways to get younger women, and some people have always been exceptional or have the ceiling to be either.

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[–]SmurfESmurferson6 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The guys on here are incorrectly mashing up trophy wives and gold diggers to start, and then somehow confusing that weird amalgamation with dependapottamus types who go for any dude in uniform with a paycheck and benefits

Gold diggers

The real gold diggers are going for men with much more wealth than is found on TRP, and both the guy and the gold digger know the deal. He knows what he’s buying, she knows what’s expected of her (which is not only looks maintenance, but turning the other cheek to affairs, and various other things that vary by couple), and there is no illusion of deep love or soul mate status

“If you marry for money, you wind up earning every penny” is a saying for gold diggers

Trophy wives

A trophy wife leverages her looks to land a guy who is making a good living, but there is genuine affection between the two of them. At least platonic, but often romantic. These tend to be your looks mis-matched couples, but the ones who have a genuine connection that no one doubts

The trophy wife may start out settling, but love and attraction grow

Dependas

Dependas are the most mercenary - they sink their hooks into any guy in the military, and milk him for those sweet benefits. She’s often banging Jodi behind his back, and will pop out a kid early on to hook him. Every “gold digger” thread I see describes the behaviors and mindset of these types of women

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

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[–]reluctantly_red2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Dependas are the most mercenary - they sink their hooks into any guy in the military, and milk him for those sweet benefits.

Basically just low-rent gold-diggers. They're the worst because the guys they get their hooks into are usually dumb enough to think she actually loves him. There's a mid-rent version of this woman who will prey on guys who dutifully followed the rules. He stayed in school, got a degree or two, and established himself in a decent but rather ordinary career. Let's call the women who prey on these guys Ventura Barbies. She'll convince a lovelorn middle-class dork (like a lot of guys here) that she truly loves him, appreciates his hard work, and really does like watching old Monty Python movies. Her target chump will then do everything in his power to provide Barbie her dream house and accessories (Ken's the pool boy in this story).

[–]SmurfESmurferson3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]solowng2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Dependas are the most mercenary

Lol don't forget about female enlisted trying to dodge a deployment. I'm 95% sure that I was conceived immediately following the announcement of Operation Desert Shield. Mom was that femme fatale from Motor-T that my dad just had to have, too bad she's a meme-tier psycho. My stepfather was a decorated Force Recon vet and a cop for a decade and she still broke him, made him her bitch for the better part of two decades, and tossed him to the curb when he figured that he'd be more useful as a source of alimony than as a husband. The joke was on her that time as he defaulted as soon as their daughter was safely an adult on the other side of the country and she'll never collect because he's judgment-proof. She gets a crazy check from the VA now, thank God. WM? More like WMD. She just discovered online dating and I wonder whose retirement she's going to wreck.

On that note, Lynndie England and Charles Graner of Abu Ghraib infamy had a son together that she's raised as a single mom. He's 16 now and screw Hillbilly Elegy, that's a book I'd be interested in reading if he lives to write it.

[–]SmurfESmurferson3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]solowng2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That definitely would've been her play but I forgot to mention that he was ex-military by the time they met (Mother, father, and stepfather were all one enlistment and out; he got caught up in the Clinton era Reductions in Force.), quit the police job before he could build much of a pension (He cashed it out and bought a truck IIRC.), and they blew through his retirement after he lost his high-paying maintenance job such that the marriage ended with them losing everything and him so broke that he couldn't afford a lawyer (Her parents paid for hers.). Frankly he's not super sympathetic in their story and if not for the fact that my kid sister is stuck with him for a father on top of our mother I'd say that they deserved each other. On the other hand he's probably been jumping out of BPD frying pans into new fires from the moment he was born and his new wife is just as crazy (presently alienating him from his daughter because heaven forbid a father visibly enjoy spending time with her); poor bastard never had a chance.

Conveniently for me (because I'm the only kid with money and "I'm about to be homeless." phone calls aren't fun) 80% disability from the VA is about what her alimony was (and she still gets the tax credit for the college aged sister) so she can survive without my aid and as difficult as it is I'm learning to get better about enforcing boundaries. She got arrested for the second time in a year last month (This time for stealing from her employer, last time for assaulting her fuckboy BF's other woman.) and instead of dropping everything and driving three hours to bail her out in the middle of the night I just didn't answer the phone. What's she gonna do, quit talking to me?

[–]SmurfESmurferson3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]solowng1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I guess "not super sympathetic" and "they' deserved each other" wasn't a forceful enough condemnation of my former stepfather (and I was trying to avoid riding a wall of text, and maybe insert some humor into the situation), who I considered to have been a narcissistic shit bag who bullied my sister and I to the maximum extent he could get away with and a deadbeat father to my half sister, who spent roughly her last year of high school as a de facto orphan couch surfing with friends and was later dragged into an utterly pointless custody battle that could have gotten her killed because he couldn't swallow his pride and just pay up until she was out of the blast radius and then default. He definitely earned his fate.

As for my biological father, he made some really dumb mistakes of his own, mainly voluntarily relinquishing custody after our mother had given it to him in the divorce initially. From there he was your fairly typical unsympathetic divorced dad who mainly focused on his career, whined about being taken to the cleaners by his crazy ex-wife, and seemed completely blind to the price my sister and I were paying for their fights. To the extent that I pity him it's because by the time he'd realized that he'd screwed up there was little he could do other than hope that my mother's second marriage failed and he could swoop in for the kill while she was on the ropes. He had that opportunity (our house was foreclosed oout from under us twice in two years), failed to capitalize on it, and my mother's parents bailed her out of that crisis (they bought the house at auction), buying that marriage another ten-ish years. Aside from that, as much as I find my father to be unpleasant to be around for extended period of time thanks to his being a boorish, misogynistic drunk and have no idea why my second step mother puts up with him, we're talking about flaws in orders of magnitude. Dad was far from father of the year but his subsequent marriages were distinctly lacking in domestic violence and dead pets, he was nice if neglectful as a parent, and I've never had to bail him out of jail or pay his rent. To the extent that I forgive either my father or stepfather for having failed to protect their daughters it's because it's the only way I'm ever going to be able to forgive myself for having similarly failed and maybe feel like I deserve to have survived and have a nice life one day instead of feeling like I survived by becoming my mother's match but just happened to have a bit more restraint.

As for our mother yes I do feel sorry for her (Though, concerning the marriage, my opinion is that she should have divorced him the first time he lost their house, and feel that she refused to do so because anything was better than suffering the insult of losing custody of my sister and I to our father.) and have a fairly different interpretation of my maternal grandparents than my sisters do. I'm not interested in trying to judge which one was worse (IMO their toxicity manifested itself differently in their individual behaviors.) but my mother is completely justified in how she felt about her own mother (who tried to argue that she herself had the right to call herself my mother, not my actual mother, and that's an insult I refuse to entertain), and maybe my grandfather wasn't quite the man I idolized as a boy, and that one cuts deep because I'm practically his clone in terms of personality and appearance. More charitably, and probably more accurately given how differently their children treated them upon their respective deaths, my grandfather was probably the better of the two parents but tragically wasn't around very much because they were extremely poor and he was always at work (My grandmother also worked until becoming disabled in her mid fifties.). He once lamented to me that he had no idea how he'd raised such a hard-hearted daughter and the sad truth is that he probably wasn't around much. My little sister and I are probably the biggest beneficiaries of his retirement.

In short, we're talking about a big sordid mess in which truly sympathetic characters were hard to come by if not totally non-existent.

[–]SmurfESmurferson3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm going to argue against your "Gold diggers" point because you're only describing a sugaring or extended escort situation. A lot of gold diggers aren't going to be upfront about their intentions because men are already wary of them. Thus, they try to seduce their way into getting the guy to start buying things for her because he's all caught up in his feels. The ultimate plan for a gold digger is to find a rich guy, get him to marry, extract resources, and then divorce and take half of their assets.

Gold diggers are like mosquitoes. You might see them and you might not, but after awhile, you'll feel them sucking out your blood and flying off before you can swat them.

Gold diggers also don't need to be going exclusively after rich guys. They are parasitic in that they'll take what they can get, but would of course prefer a larger bounty.

I otherwise agree with everything else even though I didn't read most of it, and can personally attest to seeing dependas in action as a former military dog. They can still be "gold diggers" in a sense, but they're more playing the industrial side of gold-digging.

Source: My mom has been in the gold-digging business for over 30 years.

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If you said that they both know the deal and what the other is going for

Gold diggers are basically a type of sex worker

Some people don’t go into marriage for love. They go into for a wealth of different reasons, from business interests to wanting kids to straight companionship to fulfilling a trust fund/inheritance obligation

But there is still marriage for gold diggers; there is not for sex workers. That is the difference. For the sex worker, it ends after payment. The deal is explicitly done

For the gold digger, this is her whole life. She signed on to marriage, including morning breath, farts, medical insurance complications, kids or stepkids - whatever shit life throws her way

For the husband of the gold digger, she’s way more expensive than a sugar baby or hooker. Financially, he’s better served going to a pro - but he’s getting something out of the marriage that makes it worth it for him

So while the gold digger may in fact be a “sex worker” to you, your definition would also include every husband or wife who makes less than their spouse. SAHDs are sex workers by these parameters

A husband/wife is not classified as a sex worker by any normal person because a husband/wife - including gold diggers - deals with a hell of a lot more than a pro does. Hence, the whole “if you marry for money, you wind up earning every penny”

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[–]wekacuckPreparing to die a virgin.0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Right, but the point is the people who texted her didn't even hear the voicemail that had her trafficking story.

Basically this "study" functioned as a bait-and-switch. The ad was the bait and her voicemail message was the switch.

They didn't answer any phone calls. So 759 people took the bait and made a call. These people had the chance to even hear the switch. Of these, only 37 left a response.

Then you have 314 texts. These are people who took the bait but instead of calling, they made contact via text after only seeing the ad. They didn't hear the voice message so the didn't get the switch.

So then we have 209 "contacts" (somehow all 314 text messages aren't included) but only a maximum of 37 contacts can be analyzed as bait-and-switch.

And then incidentally when they report the 82% of the 209 who "inquired about her prices" it just so happens that 82% of the contacts were text messages if all 37 voice messages were included in the 209.

Only 4.8% of the people who were bait-and-switched even contacted her. And of those, if their video is accurate, the voicemails they have are predominantly expressing concern and reaching out to help. They have zero voicemails that "inquired about her prices" or they would have played it and not played that one guy twice. At least one of the voicemails was from a woman working for a rescue group.

[–]SmurfESmurfersonVodka Trophy Wife0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]wekacuckPreparing to die a virgin.2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Well it's explicitly performance art, not a study. I suspect:

759 called. Of these 95% bounced after hearing the message (could you make a better entrapment backstory? It's sus as hell). The remaining 37 left messages reaching out trying to help or calling out the obvious sting.
314 texted the number from the ad and never heard her backstory. They probably just routinely ask rates to filter for their budget before going further. Of these 314 texts, 172 immediately asked a rate the rest were just easily excluded openers like "hey" or "is this andreea" or stuff about extended car warranties etc that would drag the averages down.

So the artists smoked a bowl and selected the 172 texts + 37 voicemails and get 172+37=209. 172/209=82% are texts immediately asking her rates. That leaves 37/209 are the voicemails. They have to pool them because without the voicemails they can't claim the men heard the story, and without the texts they can't claim the men asked her rates.

I have no idea what the expected numbers should be though. If they wanted to show "men are scum" they should have at least run a control whore with a different backstory to compare.

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There's so many other ways to not be "boring" (I'm talking relationship-wise-

Yes, we aren't really talking about "already in a relationship" here. We are talking about the building attraction phase that happens before a relationship can even start. People don't want to be in relationships with someone that they're not attracted to.

There are a lot of women who have already had men "play games" with them -- and tons are fed up of it and would just drop you for doing so

Sometimes it seems like them being fed up is a necessary step because women need to experience some type of emotion to even think about a guy, even if it's a negative emotion. No emotions = does not exist.

There are some who do like that, and reciprocate by "playing" back, I won't deny it, though.

This is basically all that modern dating is.

[–]athrowaway2832222 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We are talking about the building attraction phase that happens before a relationship can even start. People don't want to be in relationships with someone that they're not attracted to.

I agree with that second sentence. Okay, what does "playing games" entail to you then?

even if it's a negative emotion.

Negative emotions = ruled out. No emotions = potential to go any way (but yeah, does not exist for the time being). I think the goal would be mixed emotions and/or neutral leaning towards positive. I guess in that way one would need to be strategic in the "talking stage". I am tired of it though, I just want good, genuine, funny conversation. I think humor is a big part of attraction.

This is basically all that modern dating is.

It depends. It seems like the people today who are in healthy and lasting relationships (like some couples I know) didn't get there through dishonesty and manipulation (if that is what you mean by playing games).

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I agree with that second sentence. Okay, what does "playing games" entail to you then?

Playing with their emotions, teasing them, acting like you want them and then don't want them and then want them again, telling that you love them while convincing them that they're the reason for everything that is going wrong, etc. Basically being manipulative (i.e., playing games).

Negative emotions = ruled out.

Easy to say. Not often how it goes.

I think the goal would be mixed emotions and/or neutral leaning towards positive.

That's what "playing games" is.

I guess in that way one would need to be strategic in the "talking stage"

Yes, playing games is the strategy.

It depends. It seems like the people today who are in healthy and lasting relationships (like some couples I know) didn't get there through dishonesty and manipulation (if that is what you mean by playing games).

Seems like it, but you would never know unless they told you.

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So which "majority" were you referring to?

The majority of adult women.

They've already gotten you to like them, so if they start acting like they don't like you, you're not going to just "move on."

It's hard for me to maintain attraction (playing mind games is not the way to keep it) and if he makes it difficult for me i.e. suddenly stops reciprocating, I will not question why, I'll assume he's talking to someone else and move on. It's not because of me having a roster or abundance mentality, it's because that's tiring to figure out and I'm aware of these "games". I already have a bit of a ghosting issue with personal relationships sometimes 😭whether it's my mom or my friends, let alone some guy I'm just talking to.

I genuinely think some women would rather be single than try to figure out the awkward dances that guys are doing.

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I take it you don't interact with the majority of adult men to say this either, right? You're just speaking from personal experience and experiences other men outline themselves (whether friends or online).

Well, if I have a majority of men saying and showing that women like mind games, and you're here saying that women don't, then it sounds like one side doesn't really know what's going on, and you're the one without the proof to back it up. Also, someone's words don't count as proof. Results do.

Sure, but I can speak for the "other" side or at least some of, if not a majority, of us (the ones who are tired of games/not entertained by them).

Even if you say you don't like it, it doesn't matter if you end up under the influence of it. This is one of those cognitive dissonance things.

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Both sexes get the same amount "FOMO" out of social media. it's not like men don't feel it when they see other people doing better something they wish they could.

What most men can't use social media for is validation. if you post a picture as a man on facebook hoping for compliments/likes you are in the wrong place.

I think you are focusing too much on FOMO in terms of relationships. lonely and/or single people may look at facebook posts of couple doing stuff together and feel a form of envy, but FOMO is much more general. When I was younger and was in a relationship with my wife (then girlfriend) I would still feel a form of FOMO by just watching couple who had more money than us go to some exotic places.

So in short, social media promotes FOMO in any area you feel you are lacking and also care about.

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Both sexes get the same amount "FOMO" out of social media. it's not like men don't feel it when they see other people doing better something they wish they could.

Maybe when they see a more attractive woman, but I don't really feel like that's the same argument. They might just have a woman that isn't very attractive and that is different from perceiving your relationship as good or lacking.

When I was younger and was in a relationship with my wife (then girlfriend) I would still feel a form of FOMO by just watching couple who had more money than us go to some exotic places.

That's not FOMO relating to your relationship partner though. That's being envious of someone else's lifestyle. I don't think they're the same.

So in short, social media promotes FOMO in any area you feel you are lacking and also care about.

Yes, I agree there but it's still just not in the same context.

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Oooooooh boy...this ones a doozy. Grab your popcorn, folks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/offmychest/comments/lsca44/i_wish_i_wasnt_a_woman/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Anyone else ~~hate being a woman~~ want attention?

My favorite exchange was this

I’m (M) so sorry this is your experience. I’ve often thought that a brain transplant - for me to live as a woman and a woman to live as a guy for a while - would be incredibly educational for both parties. Just curious - what could I do to help shield you from creeps? I’m happy to help, but I’m also admittedly oblivious, having been raised as a guy in a traditional guy way?

And OPs response...

First off, I commend you for being open enough to take the steps to learn.

Second- almost every woman I know has a story like mine. If a woman in your life ever decides to share hers with you... sit down and listen. Unfortunately, I cannot give blanket advice because this sort of trauma (and honestly, every trauma) leaves so many different jagged pieces in each survivor and different things will work to soothe them.

So listen. Listen to them. Be open and make sure they know that you’re there for them. Ask them what they need.

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen men asking how they can help, and women not being able to articulate an actual way of helping. Only to give SIMPathy.

The best part of all this is when you go to OPs profile, it’s dozens of pictures of her posting her tits and vag (and prince Theodore) to r/freecompliments and r/ddlg 😂

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In pretty much every way.

Men are at much greater risk of being the victims of violence and assault than women. Men are expected to be fully responsible for themselves with no excuses. If men fail, it’s our own fault and no one cares about our excuses. Men are much less able to rely on others for support of any type. We get harsher sentences and fines for the same crimes. We work harder in more dangerous situations for less money (adjusted for our work choices, effort, and experience). Society views us as more expendable and we are expected to sacrifice our lives for it.

All this even though we are smarter, more capable, more creative, work harder, and contribute more to society and the the well being of others.

Yet, we haven’t made a habit of claiming that we are society’s victims. Rather, we (largely) just put our heads down and play the hands we have been dealt to the best of our ability.

We don’t have the gall to think that anybody cares about our complaints, and we know women won’t.

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What if I told you always listening to women is a bad idea? Most of the time what women talk about is trivial, endlessly meandering, insecurity riddled rants and stream of consciousness jabber about nothing useful and more of a covert way of getting more commitment than what is necessary out of men.

That offmychest post is a PRIME example of what I am talking here. She's practically acting like a annoying kid there, and look how many people in that thread enable her behavior.

Women already have a "support system" of sorts: their own female peers. Why would you want a man to take over this role when you already have female peers?

What women need is male influence. And male way of dealing with things, which is through taking initiative, action oriented steps. But women hate this shit because they hate accountability for their actions, and they practically get raised all their life in a bubble of near zero accountability for what they do (not including the rule of law of course but even then the legal system is far less punishing towards them compared to men)

I make my displeasure very clear to any woman who tried to use me as her emotional tampon.

Relevant comedy skit

Hell, that's not even comedy since this experience is pretty universal for almost all guys when it comes to dealing with women.

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Also in regards to that single mom thread from yesterday, let’s keep it funky single moms haven’t really been shamed by society in at least a generation maybe 2. The norm used to be if you had a baby out of wedlock or your child’s father wasn’t in the picture your family abandoned you, it was seen as a shame. My grandpa used to tell me stories of girls he grew up with getting pregnant and having to give up their babies to the church or move away because they’re families disowned them.

Now we have baby showers for single moms, people praise them as heroes and you have women actively choosing to be single parents as a family planning strategy.

For the record when I say shaming, I mean publicly not in the corners of Internet anonymously lol. And me personally I don’t care how you plan your family. If you wanna be married, you wanna be boyfriend girlfriend, or 2 girls raise a child or Co parent do you’re thing as long as you take full responsibility.

[–]greym8iii0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Your state requires that one of your parents be told of your decision 24 hours before your abortion.

I live in California -- no parental consent or notification has been required since 1953.

In 1953, a law was enacted in California that allowed minors to receive an abortion without parental consent or notification. In 1987, the California State Legislature amended the 1953 law to require minors to obtain the consent of either a parent or a court before obtaining an abortion. The 1987 law was challenged in court and was never enforced. The California Supreme Court struck it down altogether in 1997.[1]#cite_note-analysis-1)

In 2005, supporters of parental notification first tried using the state's ballot initiative process to require parental notification. Proposition 73 (2005)) failed, with 47.3% of the vote. After Proposition 85 also failed, parental notification supporters qualified Proposition 4) for the 2008 ballot. Proposition 4 also failed.

https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_85,_Parental_Notification_for_Minor%27s_Abortion_(2006)#:~:text=Proposition%2085%20would%20have%20required%20a%20physician%20#:~:text=Proposition%2085%20would%20have%20required%20a%20physician%20)

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From the super clever writer of 'the surrendered wife'

Even on the larger issues, I have found a little generosity goes a long way. The biggest test was when my husband wanted to buy a car we couldn't afford. My natural instinct would have been to fight him. This time, I did a calculation: the price of a new car in return for matrimonial harmony. The choice was obvious. I gave it my blessing. He bought the car. We were broke, but he was deliriously happy and, in turn, exceptionally nice to me. A few months later, when the house was in darkness because we could no longer afford new light bulbs, he decided to sell the car. Things have a habit of turning out OK in the end.

I think the idea is that you find a capable man who can take charge of both of your lives, and relinquish power to him. Unfortunately, finding a totally capable man is a bit Idealist.

[–]EnrichedBee3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That took an unexpected turn LMAO.

Would you consider that a captain/first mate dynamic? Because to me, that just sounds waaaaay to submissive. I think it's a part of marital duty to let your spouse know if they're making a huge mistake. Two minds is better than one, so both parties need to express their concerns (unlike the surrendered wife).

I'm also bothered by this line, "the price of a new car in return for matrimonial harmony". Partners should be able to express their concerns without affecting marital harmony. There's been situations in my marriage where I wanted to buy something expensive but my husband said no. It didn't damage our marriage and I wasn't even mad because his reasoning was solid so I ended up agreeing with him. I've said no to some of his wanted purchases as well. There is no ill-feelings. In fact, I'm happy my husband lets me know if he thinks I'm about to make a bad decision because we all lack good judgement from time to time, so it's nice to have your partner call you out on it!

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It is mutual trust and servitude. We aren't trying to be perfectly independent people. We want to be a united team. By making ourselves vulnerable to each other, we build up trust in each other.

When we have the very rare disagreements, we discuss them and come to a mutually beneficial third option most of the time. She "wins" 90% of the rest because I enjoy making her happy. The final 10% is stuff I cannot compromise on.

If a wife thinks her husband would take that opportunity to make her miserable, then something is wrong with her. She either picked a sociopath or she is an anxious, untrusting mess.

Let me give a run down of of your example questions and how we would discuss it.

if I want spaghetti for dinner but my husband wants burgers, does he get the final say

I have the final say and it is spaghetti.

if my husband wants to move to a certain area for work but I don't want to, do we still move?

Mobility is critical for careers. If I am the primary provider, we move. Don't marry someone with an incompatible career.

If my husband wants me to dress a certain way, do I need to say yes?

If anything I like to note which outfits I really like and my wife enjoys looking nice for me. I can't even imagine demanding a certain outfit unless it is a form of foreplay. I don't even get the question honestly.

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wow the only honest woman on here lol

haha there's no reason to not be honest. i think other women are honest on here too.

What kind of guys do you and your friends go after if not Chad?

some of my friends do go for attractive men of different races but don't simp for him, or don't pay attention to men at all because of focus on school. but most of my friends are really genuine girls who deserve the best 😅they don't care about looks as much as they care about humor, some type of attraction/body language/chemistry, similar interests (hobbies, some of my friends are amazing at art, I love to sing, play instruments, and music in general so that would be the way into my heart as a side hobby to discuss lmao or gaming, anime), similar future outlooks (some want kids, some don't, i genuinely don't know if i want them for ex.), etc. Also, I actually really like shy and/or antisocial and/or quiet guys 😔if only they approached women more, b/c I am also really scared in that area lmaoooo maybe I'll send hints somehow.

Yea but women want the best of every type. Like some only want Tyrone not Chad or vice versa

Not across the board though and not necessarily? I really don't like good looking guys who are dry or unfunny (to me) or obnoxious or loud, etc. 😅Not easy to overlook their personality.

[–]Sad_Top17431 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think women can feel like this place is super critical so some lie to not make women look bad.

That might be true, but I don't think they're lying necessarily. What are some things you think women lie about here?

What type of music do you sing to?

Anything that sounds good, it's really just a hobby. I did acapella for a few months in high school, but I don't have the largest range so I didn't feel very comfortable b/c I'm not exceptionally good and I had other activities to balance out. (Choirs were more fun though). I just love listening to music/anything surrounding music, it's like one of the few things that tether me to Earth lmao

It's a meme now that all girls on reddit want shy geeky guys lol

Really? Hmmm, I see this common in young women actually because some of us tend to be "shy" and/or "geeky" ourselves. I see this on TikTok too. Though I'd say usually geeky women are hotter than their male counterparts 😭I love shy men though, I really do. Shy anyday over extroverted, or that calm type of silent guy who just observes carefully and makes calculated comments/jokes. That makes an impact. Geeky is always great too because they're the most loving and lovable.

Yea but good looking guys without those bad qualities are panty droppers (most of them)

Sure, but I usually develop likings for men who show interest/like me back. I don't like vying for attention, it would make me feel worthless lmao

[–]Sad_Top17431 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

just don't acknowledge harsh truths and prefer to bring up outlier contrary examples. Men acknowledge other men are shitty but women feel shame or they want to keep some moral power for themselves.

Hmm, I see what you mean but it could be that they really believe those things for themselves.

Common things are how much looks matter to women, alpha behavior is attractive to them, they have greater advantages in dating.

Personally, I don't think "alpha" behavior is even a thing, nor is their one type of behavior that is attractive to women overall, but I'd agree with the other two.

I like music too but only listening to it.

Understandable. :D

Yea you like the stoic cool calm collected intellectual guy its a common type that women are into lol

Kind of. I don't like stoic really, I already have enough of a stoic male in my life in the form of my dad haha. I like when men can be emotional and vulnerable, it literally makes me love them more (and no, doesn't turn me off).

Yea if you're even mildly attractive he will show interest in you lol

True.

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Not really, the only things I can think of across the board are taller than the woman (and I guess I'd say that most women prefer 5'7+) and a decent sized dick (though other things can make up for this).

5'7 is not a preference, that's (best case scenario) the bare minimum, but often 5'7 is considered short. The reason is 5'7 guy will look like a lesser human being next to 6'2 guy according to female sexual narrative.

For men, that could be like preferring a fat ass or a nice rack or a certain body shape/proportions I guess.

Men have positive sexuality compared to women's negative sexuality. That means men focus on appealing qualities: fat ass, small boobs, slim woman, cury woman, etc. whereas women focus on deal breakers: "i don't like the angle of his upper right teeth and his eye squint, next"

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No, ask anyone here and they will approve my statement.

nah, i think that if people don't laugh at your jokes it's b/c your sense of humor doesn't match theirs/you're just not funny to them. not that you aren't good looking or whatever.

some of the most attractive guys i know have been the dryest guys i've known. not funny. sometimes not even smart. 😐#stonefaced.

i will admit sometimes when i first meet someone and i'm socially anxious... i fake laugh and agree with whatever they say, attractive or not, man or woman, in an attempt to be personable... but actually i'm trying to find a way to escape the conversation if it's not enjoyable. 😔still, i always remind myself not to laugh at things i don't find funny.

Really?!? 😭

yes 😭i've heard people say this one boy was annoying (he was shorter than half the girls in the grade too, was shorter than me by a good 4 inches and not what i found attractive facially, so based off solely looks i wasn't attracted really) but i thought he was kinda cute because he was really funny to me.

I don’t think anyone can laugh someone they find viscerally disgusting.

this is not true!! i laugh at my cousin's jokes all the time and he is not cool 🙄he laughs at mine too. my guy friends laugh around me, including the gay ones. but maybe they're influenced by my laughter b/c it's contagious and i'm always laughing around people i love (and at my own jokes). omg do they feel pressured to laugh? maybe i'm not funny. 🤡

Ok, darling...

my heart just fluttered, call me that again pretty please. 🙈

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[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I agree this one, maybe that's because they never had to compensate for anything.

definitely agree!!! you don't agree with the rest?

Do you like your cousin sexually? Asking out of context.

omg no no please don't ask me this 😭i would rather eat glass than think of any relative that way. i have a few other "Chad" cousins (tall, wealth, objectively good looking) from an outsider's point of view -- they're my cousins. i admire one of them who is currently making $200K out of college !!! literally crazy, i want to be that. but he's very unfunny and serious and needs to lighten up 😐not as fun to talk to as the rest. my female cousins are also so funny.

Sweet strawberry 💋

ahh you make me blush! how'd you know strawberry was my favorite fruit? (AND one of my favorite foods in general) 🍓

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i love them and i want to make them happy

isn't that regular familial love, separate from romantic interest?

(that includes kissing, cuddling, sex)

yeah this is romantic/sexual interest imo 😭i would cuddle w/ my cousins (or sleep in the same bed as my female ones) but it's purely familial and non sexual

Now you sow the seeds of doubt in me, i don't want to ruin my relationship with them but i want to be closer...

oops maybe this is more of a Western concept... i thought it was universal nowadays but interesting (i guess the mindset is more similar to yours in my motherland as well).

What would you do if one of them would show some interest in you the way you think he shouldn't?

this has happened before (not really w/ my close ones -- if it happened w/ my close ones i'd literally 😐be creeped out, but that's just me) and i just let him down gently 😁

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Censorship probably wouldn’t diminish their numbers as they already blew up in popularity from not being censored to begin with.

Obviously if there are reduced members in a group it’s harder to spread information. That’s just manpower. Also it’s more to do on where they’re located. Reddit is extremely popular. Incel sites aren’t (well they certainly are more now than they were before).

I never claimed what they said is the reason for their loneliness. It’s what they believe about the world and themselves that’s the reason. When you hear that you’re too ugly to even bother dating, then why even try? Or their confidence is complete shit because they think women don’t see anything other than money and status. Like sure some women think that way but it’s not necessarily true for everyone and not every incel is doomed. But they still have that belief that they are. It’s silly to think that mindset wouldn’t affect them in a negative way.

And I shouldn’t have to prove the last thing. That’s just being a caring person. I can just empathize with how people can get to the way they are and I want to help them as no one deserves to feel like worthless shit unless they actually are.

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[–]ihavezeropersonality1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You may have completely misread or overlooked what I said in my first paragraph. I said you can’t censor them at this point as they’re already too big. But before Reddit, incels were nothing. Had they been targeted from the beginning instead of building their subreddits up, there wouldn’t be as many of them around.

They get their beliefs from the platform. It’s common for men and women to feel like shit at some point in their life because the opposite sex might not reciprocate their feelings or something. That doesn’t make them an incel. But then they find these cultures and start forming their own opinions based off of what they hear online, and they start believing in all sorts of random shit. I’m sure almost all of them never heard of shit like the blackpill prior to joining.

I think it’s sad knowing there are a bunch of lost people out there which seems to be growing more and more. Men and women aren’t enemies, yet we promote these echochambers which say we are. I can see how people get lost in these and start becoming bitter and hateful, and I can’t blame them. Even tho they become toxic, they don’t deserve the pain they’re feeling. They’ve just been misinformed and had some bad experience in life. Most people deserve to be loved and have a happy life. And if they were, then they’d stop saying dumb shit.

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I wouldn’t advise my son on “how to get laid.”

I’m sorry. I’m his parent. I’m not giving him advice about how to potentially get STDs and make me a reluctant grandmother with a 15 year old son. Plus who wants to think of their son and dicks.

Things I will do:

make sure he’s in competitive team sports
make sure he’s sociable even if it’s not natural for him. It’s a skill.
make sure he has the coping mechanisms starting in early childhood to not adopt defeatist and reductionist and miserable mindsets.
make sure he respects himself and his boundaries and those of others
make sure he knows how to enjoy himself and have fun and count it all joy
make sure he’s forward thinking, a level-setter, and goal-sets; general proactivity

He can seek out the men in his life for more details on “procuring the ladies.”

But friends and lovers will be there for someone like that.

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How do y'all get over people that you developed deep but unresolved feelings for?

For perspective, imagine that you met someone whom you spent a considerable amount of time with and became deeply attracted to. You knew that they also felt the same way but you couldn't be together, and then, one day before you could really do anything about it, they suddenly died. How would you feel?

Note: This is just an example, not the way it actually happened, but the point is that you're left with unresolved feelings that you basically never got any type of closure for and you're left holding onto them.

I'm usually able to get over people that I could write off in some way as being "not good partner material" but I've had two of these situations in my life where I'm basically left holding the bag. I know that they have probably forgotten and moved on with their lives but it feels like they left you with something and you held onto it because you felt that you should return it to them.

...

Goddamn feelerz.

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Awwww, there are definitely some songs out there that remind one of the pains that come with "love". First slow dance against a song called Love Hurts, the irony haha.

But there's so many beautiful love songs, some about the hope of someone loving you back, like Overjoyed by Stevie Wonder (a classic for me) :

And though you don't believe that they do
They do come true
For did my dreams
Come true when I looked at you
And maybe too, if you would believe
You too might be
Overjoyed, over loved, over me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pkqqs2x2kA&ab_channel=johnniewalker23

Or modern love songs like Sure Thing by Miguel:

Even when the sky comes falling
Even when the sun don't shine
I got faith in you and I
So put your pretty little hand in mine
Even when we're down to the wire baby
Even when it's do or die
We could do it baby, simple and plain
'Cause this love is a sure thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTxSYWOIgI0

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That doesn't have anything to do with love. That's because men are socialized to "protect" (like that's a marker of masculinity, imo it's not) and women are socialized to "nurture" -- or at least that's the way it has been in the past, I think things are changing.

Both men and women (well, certain men and women) will put themselves in danger for children because children are usually more helpless. Men will put themselves in danger for women when they are more easily able to face the threat compared to a (smaller, on average) woman, whether that's due to size or training or because of their "protective instinct" (again, socialized).

Hence the saying, men love women, women love children, children love puppies.

I've never heard this but I feel like a man made it up and it's men who say it. lmao.

The 'he only loves me for my utility' is primarily a female projection.

No, oftentimes a man only "loves" a woman for her body/appearance. Or even because bagging a pretty woman is impressive to his peers.

They fear objectification because they do it so easily/often.

😐No, women fear objectification because they get objectified. I know that some women only care about status and use their partners as a symbol to show off as well, but that's not the majority of women in relationships (especially b/c most men in relationships are "average", not everyone is exceptionally good looking or rich, whereas I feeeel like even average women consistently try to cross the average threshold and it's pretty much cute girls who are in relationships).

[–]Kaisha0010 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That doesn't have anything to do with love. That's because men are socialized to "protect" (like that's a marker of masculinity, imo it's not) and women are socialized to "nurture" -- or at least that's the way it has been in the past, I think things are changing.

Are you trying to argue that women don't love children?

Both men and women (well, certain men and women) will put themselves in danger for children because children are usually more helpless. Men will put themselves in danger for women when they are more easily able to face the threat compared to a (smaller, on average) woman, whether that's due to size or training or because of their "protective instinct" (again, socialized).

I love the hamstering here. Men sacrifice for women... well it's because of 'socialization'... 'it's biological'... etc... Who cares why, they still did it. It's still more than what a woman would do for a man.

But don't worry, feminism is quickly righting this 'wrong'.

No, oftentimes a man only "loves" a woman for her body/appearance. Or even because bagging a pretty woman is impressive to his peers.

Again, pure projection.

😐No, women fear objectification because they get objectified.

Women get objectified for being beautiful, men for having utility... Ask any man if he'd like to be objectified for being beautiful or woman for having utility.

I know that some women only care about status and use their partners as a symbol to show off as well, but that's not the majority of women in relationships.

Except the best predictor of whether a woman will divorce/cheat is a man losing his job.

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Are you trying to argue that women don't love children?

Where did I say or imply that? I think people love children across the board.

I love the hamstering here.

😐

Men sacrifice for women... well it's because of 'socialization'... 'it's biological'... etc... Who cares why, they still did it. It's still more than what a woman would do for a man.

But don't worry, feminism is quickly righting this 'wrong'.

Men only feel like they have to sacrifice for women b/c of gender norms, not because they love them (like a random man sacrificing himself for me doesn't mean he loves me, it means that he feels he has to be heroic or just because he's a good person and would do it for anyone). Why wouldn't the reason matter? That's the whole point. edit: And on that note, men would do it for men and children too. They're more like to act period.

Like I said, people are being raised differently now, and yes, that goes hand in hand with what you said: feminism is quickly righting this "wrong". Now, men don't feel like they have to (unless it's their job and/or they have training). Good for them to be freed from those shackles of what "masculinity" is "supposed" to be. Just like childfree women/people in general. None of that has anything to do with love.

Again, pure projection.

How?

Ask any man if he'd like to be objectified for being beautiful or woman for having utility.

Lmao, I can bet you if men were women, they would hate to be objectified by men. It's something plenty of men have shown sympathy for and they can live freer for it. Women's appearance is something they can't shed or hide.

I would rather be objectified for utility-- that's something I can control and can hide. Just because a man has money for ex. (a utility) doesn't mean he needs to give his partner that money/let that partner use him for money.

Except the best predictor of whether a woman will divorce/cheat is a man losing his job.

Okay, and aren't men more likely to leave a sick wife and remarry after being widowed? We're going in circles.

[–]Kaisha0011 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Where did I say or imply that? I think people love children across the board.

/sigh.... you know what they say about horses and water.

Now, men don't feel like they have to (unless it's their job and/or they have training). Good for them to be freed from those shackles of what "masculinity" is "supposed" to be. Just like childfree women/people in general.

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is what feminists do best.

They're more like to act period.

There are more types of 'love' than just romantic (ie. brotherly love). But if the word is too strong pick something else. Perhaps care is a better word in your eyes. Then we can say men care about/for women more than women about/for men.

Lmao, I can bet you if men were women, they would hate to be objectified by men. It's something plenty of men have shown sympathy for and they can live freer for it. Women's appearance is something they can't shed or hide.

I would rather be objectified for utility-- that's something I can control and can hide. Just because a man has money for ex. (a utility) doesn't mean he needs to give his partner that money/let that partner use him for money.

LOL, this is such utter nonsense. Ask an ugly girl, because they're the few women who are actually objectified for their utility, how they feel.

We're going in circles.

You are, because you refuse to admit reality.

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

/sigh.... you know what they say about horses and water.

I actually don't sir, I had to google it lmao 😅But I wasn't implying that women don't love children, you just interpreted it that way for some reason. Again, humans usually want to protect small humans.

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is what feminists do best.

Childfree people are perfectly valid. What's feminist is the fact that they won't be shamed for their choice in mainstream Western society (even though it's not the norm). But okay.

There are more types of 'love' than just romantic (ie. brotherly love).

Yes, true, men have brotherly love for each other, women for each other, etc.

Then we can say men care about/for women more than women about/for men.

This isn't true. You are just using that one example (which you said yourself isn't really true nowadays because men aren't expected to be "protectors" due to feminism). Men also beat/rape/kill women in larger numbers than the opposite. What does that say?

LOL, this is such utter nonsense.

How? Utility/resources can be hidden or men can always use the claim that a woman is a golddigger or shallow or whatever to keep away women who want to use them for their utilities.

Plus, women make their own money nowadays.

Ask an ugly girl, because they're the few women who are actually objectified for their utility, how they feel.

I'm sure even they can be objectified for their looks just because they appear to be female. I don't think they want to be objectified either.

You are, because you refuse to admit reality.

No, you're just wrong. That's not reality.

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It’s not the same because women never really want you. They want what you can do for them, inclusive of how you make them feel.

Sometimes it's really all about how you make them feel though, and not by providing them with gifts and material possessions or services either. Sometimes they just want to know that you care, or that someone cares about them, which can be said of everyone.

We are merely objects to them, objects for the satisfaction of their needs and desires. And while any given object might be more or less difficult to replace, it is still just an object.

I think this is true to a point. We are "objects" in that we're physical matter, but whether they see you as just your physical appearance or something else is up to both them and to you. Some people aren't that shallow, even if they're not in the majority.

[–]SeemedGood0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sometimes it's really all about how you make them feel though, and not by providing them with gifts and material possessions or services either. Sometimes they just want to know that you care, or that someone cares about them,

Agreed, but that’s no less objectifying than being objectified for the stuff you can provide. Bottom line is that it’s not really an appreciation of you for your being, but of you only in respect to your utility to themselves.

I think this is true to a point. We are "objects" in that we're physical matter, but whether they see you as just your physical appearance or something else is up to both them and to you.

One can appreciate the non-physical utility that an object provides but that does not mean that one appreciates the other for his being without regard to his utility to the self, in which case the appreciation is still just that of an object for its utility.

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I started watching first time it came out, I was like 13 or 14 lol

ayo me too!!! i was like 11 or 12 when it came out, i watched the first few episodes of s1 and then stopped for a while though, got back into it.

I was big Naruto fan, was waiting for manga every Wednesday religiously, but after Naruto's manga ended I haven't watched any Anime or red any manga.

understandable, i was (still am) a big Naruto fan as well, so good. it's one of those animes/shows you grow up with. (as well as cartoons like teen titans, ATLA, etc. for me).

i didn't finish the manga though, but i will at some point in my life haha. i started getting more interested in a variety in high school, but only really got the chance to sit down and watch/read more when the end of senior year got cancelled last yr 😔edit: romance animes give me unrealistic expectations 😡i hate it here.

Just started watching AOT again and damn it's so good.

right!! it got so much better.

1 = would smash; 0 = maybe; -1 = no way. Am I right?

yeah haha this is how i see it. or rather:

1 = cuuuuuute i wanna hold hands at least; 0 = acceptable :D ; -1 = no thank you 😌

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Well if you lurk this sub, you would know that 30% of younger men and 20% of young women are sexless any given year. That not an insignificant number of people.

This is Reddit, so lots of people here live more online than irl. For people who spend a lot of their time online, it’s not so easy to just say look nice and make the ladies laugh.

Not everyone here is sexless, lots of the young men are, some of the young women are. There are many long time posters are who are happily married, some claim to be happily married but love to shit on the opposite sex every opportunity they get, (go figure) some happily divorced and never want to have anything to do with the opposite sex. We have a swinger, a ftm transgendered poster and at least one sex worker. Then there is a guy who hates all humanity with the heat of a million suns...oh, except his wife🤷‍♀️ And lots and lots of people thinking modern dating problems are the end of the world as we know it and society is on the verge of collapse

The main reason this sub exists is to discuss the red pill, where they think it’s helpful, not helpful, hopelessly cynical....

I like to think I’m here to get people to take off their tin foil hats once in a while and keep people off the ledge. Who knows, maybe I’m just bored and like to argue.

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I mean maybe its not ok, but it is life and you're not going to change it so why not just chalk it up to the game and keep it pushing?

Because that closes down all discussion surrounding it. If we're noticing trends that seem to be having a negative effect on people, they should be pointed out and discussed rather than saying "oh well, that's life, what can ya do?" We can sure as hell do something about it.

How is that a problem? sounds like a person with their shit sorted to me haha

Well uh..... we kind of rag on people for having unrealistic standards, which is another issue that people often have with dating. You can't look like a troll and expect to land an attractive partner. Even worse is when someone like that thinks that they "deserve" an attractive partner. We can say "you get what you get" but some people don't seem to want to accept that because it might be that they get nothing.

[–][deleted]4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I mean like what? This sub has presumably been around for some time have you guys made any progress against this stuff? I mean maybe this has changed some peoples ideas towards dating toward some of that more malignant fds/trp stuff

Yes, that's part of it, but it also changes people's perceptions of others while dating so they might not do or accept some of the behaviors that others might do. Dating is basically a litmus test so if people are failing consistently, they'll hopefully realize that they might be doing something wrong and look to correct it.

Who cares if some ugly person has unrealistic standards?

The complain and rant to others that people are shallow when they can't get who they want. It's not exactly a problem for us so much as it is for them, but we still have to hear about it. There are also some people who think that you should find them attractive even if you don't. That could probably be chalked up to "life" because there's nothing that can really be done about it, but it still exists as a problem that we are aware of. That's partially the problem with a lot of FDS and some TRP incels.

but I don't see anything wrong with having high standards.

There's a difference between high standards and unrealistic standards. Unrealistic standards can't be met while high standards can if someone is a person with many good qualities.

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I just think it's fun 😁but I think people pose a lot of interesting questions about gender dynamics which is a primary point of the sub (even though there's a lot that I disagree with and at times it can get pretty repetitive).

Most of the hot looking people I know who have their shit together are able to brush past losers on dating apps, people that ghost or reject them and people they don't want to date without any problem.

Yup, same, this sub (and other "pill" subs) go more into the experiences for the not-hot people, or at least the people not born hot (and I guess usually more specifically, men).

Have any of you guys learned anything or gained an insight into how dating works?

Yeah, I think people do gain insight and that's really just the point. Unique perspectives and whatnot on dating and gender interactions/dynamics/perceived differences.

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My name is Thomas Nally and I am a PhD student with the University of Central Lancashire (UCLan) and a forensic psychologist in training. I am conducting a study examining factors that may affect how victims/survivors in abusive relationships protect themselves.

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Why I am for transwomen competing on the same teams as cis women:

First off, woman is a gender, female is a sex. As transwomen are women, they should be allowed to compete with other women, including cis ones. If you dont like this, then create female's sports, not women's sports.

Second off, we accept that some people are genetically advantaged when it comes to sports, and that this is okay. Height gives a major advantage in basketball, yet we do not have officially sanctioned NBA teams for short people, and we dont in some way handicap taller players to be on a level playing field with shorter players.

Transwomen are simply born with the genetic advantage of identifying as a woman, yet having a male body.

So in closing. Either change women's sports to female's sports, or stop being transphobic and join us progressive folx on the right side of history.

And before you say "if trans women are women, why dont you date one?". Because im not attracted to all women. Im attracted to female women, and I as anyone else am entitled to have any sexual preference I want.

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Think about it moids: why should ANY foid worth her salt choose a pathetic weak m*Le over a strong GVLDEN RETRIEVER? The GVLDEN RETRIEVER doesn't worry about silly things like "red flags" and "children" and "boob size" and "weight"; They see a tight, wet opening, they stick their dick in it, it feels good so they keep on going. They pound into your girlfriend with such force she is moaning, begging for more doggy cock. She is damn near pissing herself, but the GVLDEN RETRIEVER doesn't stop. His knot swells. Your girlfriend, mind blanked by orgasmic bliss, is bound to the GOLDEN BVLL for up to an hour while his Chad knot shrinks down, and her vaginal muscles milk every drop of GVLDEN RETRIEVER spunk. She will never look at you the same way again. Sex doesn't feel the same. She is "tired" most nights, yet you can hear the whimpering and moans from the bathroom when she takes Sparky in the bathroom to "take a shit with company". She tells you to go in the other room and "jerk it or something". You are ashamed. You are weak. You are crushed. But she will never love you again. Sparky plays with his chew toy.

Her stomach is swelling. That is strange, you think, as you two haven't had sex in about 4 months and you had just gotten a vasectomy, per r/childfree advice. She tells you it's hormones, but you see the worry in her eyes, the fear lying behind her nonchalant expression. Fucking Sparky, looks up at you and almost smiles. The fucking MUTT, having the nerve to smile at you. In a time like this? Why are you so fucking angry at this dog? What did he do?

5 more months has passed. The "bump" on her stomach is huge now. You worry it may be a freak-case tumor or something of the like, but you now are pretty sure she cheated on you at some point. With who? When? But most importantly, why? Sparky looks at you again, but this time, his face is blank. He shits on the floor.

It is now obvious she's in labor. She decided against going to the hospital, for reasons you were unsure of. Probably read a Reddit post on tub births or something. In any case, she is in pain, and you are doing as much as you can to help her birth the baby, even though you just know it isn't yours. That's okay though. When you find out who the father is you will kill them. How could he do this to your girlfriend? Why did she let him? Where is he? What is his race? Is his cock bigger tha-

The baby is born. Or, rather, 6 babies are born? They are... furry. And yellow. And their ears are quite large. Holy shit. The fucking dog. Sparky. They look just like him! Except, they have human characteristics. They are grotesque to look at, you are sick to your stomach. You want to scream, to cry, to beg her to kill them, but she doesn't. She isn't doing much of anything actually. Just staring at them, with cold, dead eyes. She holds two up to her swollen breasts. They suckle, and whimper. They are alive. Sparky shits on the floor.

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I feel like men don’t see taller men as more dominant yet women do and I don’t understand why. Men see stronger and smarter men as more dominant not taller men so I don’t understand why there is this like unwritten social rule that women see taller men as more attractive because they are more dominant but they’re not really more dominant. I’ve been taller than average and I’ve never seen it as a form of social dominance per se my whole life and I think most taller men would say the same, I’ve always felt like whoever was the strongest or could win in a fight or was the smartest was the most dominant guy and I guess that’s related but it’s like women put more of an emphasis on it then you’d would think they logically should if they saw it the same way men do but it’s like women don’t see it the same way as men and I don’t understand why. Can any women here please explain.

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I'm 5'7 and also dated a 6'3 guy. He had kind of the tall/lanky/dweeby look I described lol but I was into that look at the time so I didn't mind (he looked exactly like young Elon Musk, who according to Google is 6'2, so even the heights are similar).

My husband is somewhere between 5'11 and 6'0 and it's just about perfect. When we hug I can rest my head on his chest/shoulder which is nice. In heels I'm just a smidge shorter than him so we photograph well haha. He's also just very... substantial? He's a pretty skinny dude but he has crazy broad shoulders and big bones (huge hands, thick wrists, big head etc.) It's weird but I think "big" is more of an attraction trigger for me than "tall" per se. My other ex was not much taller than me, maybe 5'8, but he had that same kind of bulky substantial build so he still felt big.

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It’s usually a combination of traits that make men and women, but especially men, defer to and turn into “simps” for male validation or to be part of said man’s “inner circle.”

deeper voice
wider physical frame / usually fit or athletic, but sometimes “big boys” à la Rick Ross fit this mold
an unbothered behavioral frame
casual charm and confidence
appears to get what he wants
willingness to move forward with a plan of action and assure others that said plan of action is legit (leadership) — note I never said the plan of action is accurate, but he just has to have a sense of assurance about it lol

When you sprinkle in “taller than average” on top of that, it’s a recipe for seeing grown men turn into bitches for another man. I’ve seen it throughout my life.

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This is what I orignally relplied to you with:

It’s usually a combination of traits that make men and women, but especially men, defer to and turn into “simps” for male validation or to be part of said man’s “inner circle.”

deeper voice

wider physical frame / usually fit or athletic, but sometimes “big boys” à la Rick Ross fit this mold

an unbothered behavioral frame

casual charm and confidence

appears to get what he wants

willingness to move forward with a plan of action and assure others that said plan of action is legit (leadership) — note I never said the plan of action is accurate, but he just has to have a sense of assurance about it lol

When you sprinkle in “taller than average” on top of that, it’s a recipe for seeing grown men turn into bitches for another man. I’ve seen it throughout my life.

How the hell does a man who is an anorexic 130lbs at 6'3 fit into the bolded????

And let's use your 130lb insane frail slender man 6'3 framed man example.

If he has all of the other traits I listed, he's going to come across as more dominant than the same exact man who is 5'10 with a corresponding slight physicality.

What is not clicking????? I already accounted for muscularity and width of physical frame.

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Ok if everything was exactly equal I think your right that taller would be better.

My point is men don't value just height by itself the way women do. 6'3 average athlete is not as impressive as a 5'9 above average one. There are way more average to short athletic guys than over 6 foot because of bio-mechanics.

When we see these things

deeper voice
wider physical frame / usually fit or athletic, but sometimes “big boys” à la Rick Ross fit this mold
an unbothered behavioral frame
casual charm and confidence
appears to get what he wants

But with a dude that is not an unathletic, he looks weak af and fake. Guys will roast ppl like this all the time. Girls throw themselves at them but on the court/field they get exposed. There are way more of these types of tall men than the athletic ones so its more common.

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Gotta love your optimism. Just understand that in the best-case scenario this takes years.

Might be atypical for a guy to think this way, but raising children or caring for anyone is a labor of love. Typically, people love themselves more than they do others, so I wouldn't advise those people to assume a caregiver role over anyone. Its definitely worth it to see someone that you brought up survive and succeed in the world and in life. I would argue that there's no greater joy, even if thats subjective because lots of people would prefer swimming in a sea of money over raising another human bean.

The boy's 10. He's never had a stable home before and is two or three years behind in school. He was physically abused and grossly neglected.

Ah. That's sad.

The girl was 15 when my daughter met her. She'd been sexually molested, taken away from her family, and ended up in a group home because most foster parents don't want an angry black teenager. She was the victim but somehow she ended up basically incarcerated too. My daughter was her social worker. This girl was the one she had to take home.

Damn. That's pretty rough, and I agree that the older ones are usually harder to handle and care for, and are seen as less desirable options than younger children. It would be a good short-term adoption, but I would favor younger over older myself.

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I think it's great but you have to be really ready for it and to be prepared to care for a traumatized baby/kid.

Of course. People who don't have an idea and aren't prepared to have children shouldn't be adopting or getting pregnant.

many people ideolise it and forget that adoption starts with a tragedy.

Not always. Sometimes the only tragedy is that the parents gave them up for adoption. It isn't always that they were taken from their abusive and/or neglectful parents.

you're not getting a baby that will bond with you the way a kid you birthed and cared for would, you're going to face serious challenges and it's going to take a lot of effort and work.

If people really need a baby to be theirs in order to want to bond with them, that's pretty sad. I'd wonder how they were able to make friends, or what their friends really mean to them.

i also think that if you're not up for it and 1000% committed to it, you should just not do it.

Of course.

having been around children who got adopted then "returned", i wish there was a hell so the people who do that suffer for eternity and more.

Yeah, that would be sad for those children to perpetually feel unwanted, but I think that returning them would be better than them ending up in a similar situation that they may have come from. People who don't want to care for others become resentful of those that they have to care for. It's the same with mothers/parents of "unwanted" children.

[–]_mwk2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

being given up for adoption is a tragedy, it's being abandoned. no matter the age of the child, they are getting abandoned. adoption always starts with being abandoned and for a kid and a baby, it's always their entire world falling apart

Of course. People who don't have an idea and aren't prepared to have children shouldn't be adopting or getting pregnant.

nope, I didnt mean that. I meant specifically to care for a traumatized child, not just a child, and that is a much harder task

If people really need a baby to be theirs in order to want to bond with them, that's pretty sad. I'd wonder how they were able to make friends, or what their friends really mean to them.

no it's the other way around, it's not the ppl that dont want to bond with the kid. it's that a kid that has been in a system going from carer to carer WILL have trouble bonding with new adults they never met before. a baby born into a family directly and cared for since day 1 will not have those issues

People who don't want to care for others become resentful of those that they have to care for. It's the same with mothers/parents of "unwanted" children.

ofc but it is way too irresponsible imo to not be sure with a child's wellbeing and future, causing them lifelong issues. idk how adoption works in the us, but here, you get to spend a significant amount of time with the kid to get to know them and see if there's "compatibility" before you take them and adopt them. imo it's cruel to put a child through that

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

being given up for adoption is a tragedy, it's being abandoned. no matter the age of the child, they are getting abandoned.

It's only being abandoned if they're being left all alone. In this case, they aren't. It's not much different from ending a relationship, and I don't think we can say that people are being abandoned when their partners are breaking up with them. That would be pretty melodramatic.

adoption always starts with being abandoned and for a kid and a baby, it's always their entire world falling apart

Better that this happens sooner rather than later. Unless they have been severely abused and mistreated, problems for younger children are easier to address and fix. It's when they get older that their world falls apart and has more of an effect on them.

nope, I didnt mean that. I meant specifically to care for a traumatized child, not just a child, and that is a much harder task

Not that different, honestly. Life itself is traumatizing so there will always be some type of problem to deal with. I don't think it's beneficial to look at adopted children as huge problems to solve. They just need to be given a good environment and good people, and that will make things easier.

it's that a kid that has been in a system going from carer to carer WILL have trouble bonding with new adults they never met before. a baby born into a family directly and cared for since day 1 will not have those issues

Well duh. That applies to everyone. People who are exposed to more people will be more picky and skeptical of people that they interact with. That's why it's the parent's job to bridge that gap. If you show that you're paying attention and making an effort to really get to know someone, people acknowledge and appreciate that because they want to know that others care about them. Really knowing someone shows that.

ofc but it is way too irresponsible imo to not be sure with a child's wellbeing and future, causing them lifelong issues

Again, it's not that much different from a relationship. People that are incompatible will always have issues, and being compatible will likely lead to a better outcome for both sides.

idk how adoption works in the us, but here, you get to spend a significant amount of time with the kid to get to know them and see if there's "compatibility" before you take them and adopt them.

Yes, you can foster children first and then decide to adopt one that you meet if you like and get along with each other. It's not like going to the pound or Pet Supermarket and adopting a dog/cat that you have no experience with, or it doesn't have to be that way at least.

[–]_mwk2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't think you can compare child psychology to grown adults relationships break ups.

It's only being abandoned if they're being left all alone. In this case, they aren't. It's not much different from ending a relationship, and I don't think we can say that people are being abandoned when their partners are breaking up with them. That would be pretty melodramatic.

this is very wrong. when the primary caregiver of a child abandons them, even if they're directly given to someone else, they feel abandoned because they are. children, and especially toddlers and babies, do not how to process that kind of things, and internalise it as trauma. children aren't being "melodramatic" for feeling abandoned by their parents, they do not know the bigger picture. all they understand is that the person they got attached to is gone and they'll never see them again

Not that different, honestly. Life itself is traumatizing so there will always be some type of problem to deal with. I don't think it's beneficial to look at adopted children as huge problems to solve. They just need to be given a good environment and good people, and that will make things easier.

I don't mean look at them as problems to solve, I mean that people do what you're doing right now. minimising the trauma kids go through when abandoned doesn't help either. it is different to care for a child who has abandonment issues or severe separation anxiety and it's harder than caring for a child who has a secure attachment to their caregiver. life leaves scars when you grow up but being separated from the person you depend on has huge impacts on the child's mental health and it takes a toll on them for a lifetime. it takes more patience, more resilience and more emotional maturity from the adult that chooses to adopt them than it would take with a child who doesn't carry that kind of baggage. expecting them to be "fixed" simply because you give them a good environment is wrong, they need time, trust, patience and probably lots of therapy.

Better that this happens sooner rather than later

this is also wrong. childhood trauma is heavier than adult trauma. it stays ingrained and is more easily repressed.

it's really not comparable to how adults handle relationships. absolutely not. adults know themselves, know the details of how and what happened, and understand the rational sides, and know how to process their feelings. children do not. the younger the child, the less they're emotionally equipped to understand what's happening. they don't understand "incompatibilities" and can't rationalise it as "we didn't fit together so it wasn't meant to be". all they see is an adult they liked returning them to a system that isn't kind and isn't caring, so they understand it as them not being good enough for that adult. they carry that baggage their entire lives.

[–]TheBookOfSeil1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

all they understand is that the person they got attached to is gone and they'll never see them again

Yes, and I don't see how that equates to "trauma." I think you're pointing out a specific thing. People experiencing their first breakup as teenagers might feel a similar way, but they'll eventually become used it as they go through more relationships. It's no guarantee that children of abusive parents who gave them up will be "attached" and see that separation as "traumatic." My parents got divorced when I was 4 and I didn't see my dad not living with us anymore as "traumatic." It was more like "But where is he going?" No attachment = no feelings.

minimising the trauma kids go through when abandoned doesn't help either. it is different to care for a child who has abandonment issues and severe separation anxiety and it's harder than caring for a child who has a secure attachment to their caregiver.

It's not "minimizing" it. It's treating it as it is with what is necessary to stabilize them. Therapy or care can be looked at like giving medicine to someone. If you give them too much, then they'll be overmedicated and that will cause similar problems. Giving them what they need and only what they need will have much better results. Dwelling on injuries or issues never solves them, so I wouldn't encourage becoming a safety blanket for these children. They'll eventually have to learn and be comfortable with separating themselves from others, and being a good caregiver will hopefully do that.

expecting them to be "fixed" simply because you give them a good environment is wrong, they need time, trust, patience and probably lots of therapy.

All of this is what "a good environment" is.

this is also wrong. childhood trauma is heavier than adult trauma. it stays ingrained and is more easily repressed.

I think you're mistaking this as me saying that something happening as a kid is better than it happening as an adult, and that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that addressing things sooner makes them easier to get over rather than addressing them later. If a child gets a fresh wound, you can address it quickly so that it can heal properly overtime. However, if someone has an open wound that has been festering for years and years that they've had since their childhood and was never addressed, that will be much much harder to treat and will have heavier consequences.

adults know themselves, know the details of how and what happened, and understand the rational sides, and know how to process their feelings.

A very generous assessment.

they don't understand "incompatibilities" and can't rationalise it as "we didn't fit together so it wasn't meant to be". all they see is an adult they liked returning them to a system that isn't kind and isn't caring, so they understand it as them not being good enough for that adult. they carry that baggage their entire lives.

Kind of reminds you of incels, don't it? Still, the solution for them is the same as the solution for incels. They have to realize (eventually) that this isn't what it means, and not all of them will feel this way.

[–]_mwk2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

im not going to comment on your life bc it's yours, but you have to realise that's the exception. even children of horrible abusive parents are attached to them and as sad as it is, love them, especially if they're old enough to know what's happening. very very rarely you'll find a kid indifferent to their parents.

Therapy or care can be looked at like giving medicine to someone. If you give them too much, then they'll be overmedicated and that will cause similar problems. Giving them what they need and only what they need will have much better results. Dwelling on injuries or issues never solves them, so I wouldn't encourage becoming a safety blanket for these children. They'll eventually have to learn and be comfortable with separating themselves from others, and being a good caregiver will hopefully do that.

I disagree, thats not a good analogy. you cant "overmedicate" children with care. you can't care about a child too much, that is wrong. offering them the gift of knowing that they have a lifelong support system is what parenting is about. often kids in the system were forced into independence way too soon, and way too young, they know how to survive on their own. but that is exhausting and taxing for a little kid, and knowing that they can trust and rely on someone else is going to be really hard for them. I don't think adoptive parents should push them to more independence, that won't help either side.

However, if someone has an open wound that has been festering for years and years that they've had since their childhood and was never addressed, that will be much much harder to treat and will have heavier consequences.

oh, then I agree. but this is kind of my point. you will get a wounded child and your job would be to tend to that wound for a while at first.

Kind of reminds you of incels, don't it? Still, the solution for them is the same as the solution for incels. They have to realize (eventually) that this isn't what it means, and not all of them will feel this way.

adoption isnt about a solution or fixing the kid. it's about giving them an opportunity to have a better life and a better support system than they would have on their own. and, they're children. if grown adults like incels can't process it, we can't expect children to know any better. and again, adult relationships and dating problems aren't comparable to abandoned children's emotional reactions and coping mechanisms. they dont really have much in common

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Why's that? How is either one more "selfish" than the other?

Maybe I'm thinking too far into this, but...

I ask the question why in this case a person goes for adoption instead of having their own child. Is it because pregnancy is inconvenient (work-wise, changes in the body, etc.)? Or do they not want to bother themselves with the very intensive care required for infants? No matter how I look at it I come to conclusion that such people are just focused on themselves and are unwilling to have any inconveniences in their lives. And I believe such people would make for rather bad parents with such mindset. Instead of adopting a child they should adopt a dog.

Also, regarding the new idea that there is overpopulation and people should adopt instead of having their own children - these people are complete lunatics.

[–]TheBookOfSeil2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I ask the question why in this case a person goes for adoption instead of having their own child.

Because it's not necessary?

Is it because pregnancy is inconvenient (work-wise, changes in the body, etc.)?

It can be. For women, they can find any guy to dump a load in them or go to a sperm bank. For guys, that usually involves going through the whole process of courting and relationships and then mutually deciding to have a child.

No matter how I look at it I come to conclusion that such people are just focused on themselves and are unwilling to have any inconveniences in their lives.

That makes little sense. Some people just want to provide care to others. It's not about specifically having a child as much as it is wanting to have a life with them and care for them, and raise them up to be successful/have a chance at a better future. If you want to interpret that as "focused on themselves," then, by all means, go for it.

And I believe such people would make for rather bad parents with such mindset. Instead of adopting a child they should adopt a dog.

I can't speak for everyone, but if someone just wants to have a child just so that they can have a child, then I would agree with you, with the caveat that I don't think they should be providing care for any living thing, because they won't do as good a job as someone who actually wants to nurture another life.

Also, regarding the new idea that there is overpopulation and people should adopt instead of having their own children - these people are complete lunatics.

I agree in part that they're lunatics when they're saying that we're better off letting people die and nobody should be having children, but increasing populations do have negative correlations with quality of life, so it's something that should be kept in mind.

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The town I live in has a LOT of old money and new finance industry money, as well as the colleges - it’s not a college town in the way yours might be, where the colleges define it

Ahh, I see. Mine is defined by academia through and through.

Finance guys can be very “work hard, party hard” so I’m not shocked that they turn to SA (married or not).

Interesting, sad for their wives but if they know and put up with it, well....

I can see that mentality in the finance bros at school lmao but I'd hope they mature 😅

One of the colleges here is know for a very “where rich families send their not smart kids” reputation. So you have a lot of pretty young girls who are used to the finer things in life, who don’t like living like a college kid. I can understand why a chunk of them sign up for SA

That makes a lot of sense.

I guess it varies by the college landscape/reputations. The colleges here are mostly known for smart and hardworking kids, rich backgrounds or not. The pretty women, if not focused on academics or following pandemic guidelines, are just dating or fucking around with the hot men here.

At most I think "rich" is defined as UMC here, so not necessarily old money wealthy types, but rather the children of Ivy League grads or parents in biotech/health industries/engineering.

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I hope you eating disorders

I should have clarified - I didn’t have an ED. I was under an unbelievable amount of stress at the time, and one of my reactions to severe stress is that my appetite disappears. In hindsight, I probably ate maybe 400 calories a day and subsisted on coffee. The only other time in my life I got that skinny is when I spent 5 days with norovirus, puking every 20 minutes and unable to even keep water down

breast size fluctuates with body fat

Not really that dramatically. Maybe a cup size - but a woman who carries weight in her thighs/ass won’t suddenly develop DDs just because she gains 20 pounds

big breasts can make a woman look chunkier

True. Especially given the current fashions (high necklines, crop tops, higher hemlines on shirts). Women’s clothes were much more forgiving even 15 years ago (longer shirts, V/scoop necks, etc)

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[–]geyges🐇4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You're on the internet.

Let's assume that I believe that you're a woman, that the assault actually happened, that there's not much more to know about it other than "drunk stranger grabbed my tits".

I would then have to contend that with the idea that I myself would never touch a strange woman, let alone on her tits. That I never saw any other man ever touch a strange woman.

Once I worked past all that, I would say that humans are sexual beings, but we don't express our urges through grabbing other humans (in a civilized society).

Now I have to imagine a hypothetical of a burly man grabbing my ass or balls, which also never occured in my life, and I've never seen it occur.... and tell you that I would fight back, probably as an involuntary reaction, but yes it would be very upsetting if it ever did happen.

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Title	Weekly Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	18
Comments	3781
Date	February 22, 2021 9:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/lpzqug/weekly_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/weekly-community-chat-megathread.746095 https://theredarchive.com/post/746095

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