Men who prefer slim women are called shallow. 98.8% of women won't message a short man because of "biological preference."

thealternativeside · 2013-12-10T05:15:56+00:00

Keep in mind that the 98.8% statistic refers to men under 5'10. The average height of men in the United States is 5'9 according to the most recent census.

z3k3 · 2013-12-10T07:03:31+00:00

[permanently deleted]

pazz · 2013-12-10T09:18:20+00:00

I think you should be able to filter by whatever characteristics you want to. Height, weight, ethnicity, socio-economic standing...may not seem nice, but let shallower people be as shallow as they want.

WickedHaute · 2013-12-10T16:58:10+00:00

I'm 5'3". I'm in love with a man who is 5'2".

rapey_raperson · 2013-12-10T06:25:20+00:00

Women seem to view online dating like most people do the lottery: they don't really want to invest much in it, so they only buy a ticket when the jackpot is big enough. Hence the online preferences for 6'4" attractive men who "like to travel" and/or are "financially secure".

They won't turn down a free dinner though.

EDIT: The haters and downvote brigades have found my post (oh, the heavy burden of karma). So for them: Have you actually read the online profiles of women? 90 percent of them state outright that they want a tall attractive man with money. It's not my fault they all put that in.

Jeez, don't shoot the messenger.

Demonspawn · 2013-12-10T07:04:31+00:00

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/1iao0d/anyone_else_completely_surprised_by_how_much/cb2n4vs

96% of women won't date man shorter than themselves

But I've noticed that the subject of male height has the capacity to turn even the most open-minded and feminist of my friends into straight-up bitches. The general consensus around the table that night was no short guy is ever gonna get it, no way, no how, ugh, never never never never, with the kind of vehemence that would make me feel sick to my stomach if directed at a woman's size or shape by a group of men. Even for the short women of the group, it wasn't enough that a guy be taller than them -- he had to be objectively TALL, even if that meant towering over them.

This is why I don't take feminism seriously, at least third wave. You can't espouse the abolishment of traditional gender roles and deride men who attempt to enforce or abide by them, while having 96% of your gender cling to them to justify height bigotry because of insecurity. I agree with whoever said in the comments that 96% is not found in nature and is predominantly cultural brainwashing. It's only getting worse with the way the media/movies/TV are pushing it even more btw. I wouldn't be surprised to see that 96% figure climb up closer to 98 or 99% in the next twenty five years.

A comment I recently saw explained it best:

This is actually incredibly common in my experience. I've encountered many women who were a certain "type" of person in all areas of their personality except for dating preferences. When it came to dating, they were someone else. They could be the most radically feminist, intellectually sound person, but when it came to choosing a mate they turned into a neanderthal. They needed their man to be tall, broad-shouldered, confident and assertive. I think a lot of it has to do with modern women wanting their cake and eating it too - they want the benefits of a traditional society where men are expected to cater to women for their approval and women are generally not held responsible for any wrongdoing; at the same time they want the benefits of being in a progressive society where women have all of the same opportunities and freedom as men.

Third wave feminism has already destroyed traditional courtship and I think it's going to get worse before it gets better. A similar trend is career driven women who don't need to be the breadwinner, but still won't date a guy not in the same career station and tax bracket as them. This works in their 20s, but the ground quickly shrinks underneath their feet as they reach their 30s, leading to more "where have all the good men gone?" articles.

Poisoninthewound · 2013-12-10T08:13:31+00:00

AYI.com analyzed over 50,000 interactions in the NY metropolitan area to determine how likely female online daters were to contact a men that was 5’9″ or under when she viewed his profile. And the results were rather depressing: Manhattan women were the choosiest (only 1.2% would contact), followed by The Bronx (1.2%), Brooklyn (2.4%) and Long Island (3.7%).

Those are pretty low numbers, but without knowing the percentage of men over 5'9" that were contacted, this info doesn't help us really help us gauge just how much shorter men are discriminated against. It's possible that the numbers would be very similar for both groups, though I doubt it.

mamelouk · 2013-12-10T06:26:07+00:00

Should we start a short acceptance movement? We could go on tumblr and complain about tall people privilege.

bridgecrewdave · 2013-12-10T15:59:24+00:00

Also keep in mind that NYC women are often considered some of the most shallow or second most shallow women behind LA on the planet.

ExpendableOne · 2013-12-10T14:39:30+00:00

Weight and height aren't exactly the same issue. Women can control their weight and women judge men for their weight as much as men judge women for theirs. The issue of height is in a category in of itself and, what's worse, is how quickly people are to not only accept this level of prejudice towards men(especially from women, something which would never be accepted the other way around) but accept this assumption that this preference is purely biological. Weight is an issue of health and fitness, beyond being esthetically unpleasing it also affects functionality and capability. Height is an issue of social expectations and fitting a specific gender stereotype. Fact is, this preference is simply about fitting into traditional gender roles than it is about actual sexual preference or "biological truth".

Women like tall men because that's the heterosexual norm, not because they are biologically programmed to. It's something that women grow up being taught to prefer, growing up learning to judge men based on their height(or how well they fit into a certain stereotype). Most men don't really care about height, the ones that do are typically traditionalists that are affected by those those same influences and social expectations.

What's worse though, I think, are the people who just say "tough luck. can't do anything about it. girls just biologically love tall men. Short men are just fucked and should have to learn to live alone, unloved and unappreciated". Short men aren't the problem though. This social view of a heterosexual couple(i.e. man having to be the taller/assertive one and the woman being the shorter/submissive one) is the problem. The vast majority of women, and the few men, who reinforce these sexist gender roles/expectations, through their preferences(even when they are consciously aware of how those preferences are driven by nothing more than following a traditional double-standard), are the problem.

Truth is, it is no better for a woman to judge a man for his height, or this perceived ability for him to be a good dominator/protector/provider(antiquated, sexist and harmful gender roles and expectations), than it would be for a man to judge a woman for her ability to fit in the confines of antiquated, sexist or harmful gender roles and expectations against women. Especially not when height isn't really a true measure of a man's capability or character to begin with. This goes for any other character or trait that women demand, or over-value, simply for the sake of tradition. Men shouldn't have to be assertive, confident, loud, strong or never insecure, simply because they are men. At the very least, if men are to be judged for these traits, then so should women(generally, women are not judged or penalized for lacking in these traits, and society will place that blame or expectations onto men).

ShawnGH · 2013-12-10T20:39:09+00:00

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

Only women are treated like pieces of meat.

End sarcasm...

eDgEIN708 · 2013-12-10T11:59:38+00:00

Double standards don't real, shitlord!

Rattatoskk · 2013-12-10T08:59:45+00:00

As a short man (5'6), I've come to a realization:

It's not about your height, but about how "tall" you act in person. Yeah, there's superficial women out there, and they WILL filter out a short guy without giving him a chance in something like an online environment.

But, when it comes to face to face interactions, the insecurity of the man is far more to blame for his luck than a woman's prejudices. How many men have shot themselves in the foot because they braced for failure rather than planning for success, we will never know. But my guess is that it's a very big number.

Frankly, I don't blame a woman for having personal preferances. Who am I to throw myself around and DEMAND that I be given a chance contrary to a woman's obvious desires? It's a waste of time for both of us and an exercise in politically correct double-think. A woman owes me nothing, other than common courtesy, and I owe her the same. To demand a place in her heart like an affirmative action quota? How pathetic.

My only concern is that men's equally valid thought processes are often derided as a form of discrimination. I'm very sorry that you're 100 lbs heavier than what most men consider attractive. I'm sorry that you're not a race that someone feels attracted to. I'm sorry that your name reminds someone of a bad experience.

But frankly, it's not up to you to decide whether these factors are important to the judger. It's their time to spend or waste as they please, and if you don't meet their criteria, it's not up to them to pretend that you do for your feeling's sake. The same way you can judge me based on something as simple as a speck of dust on my jacket, I am free to judge you on any criteria that matters to me. And you are not allowed to invalidate that judgement for any reason.

That goes for men and women. Political correctness shouldn't be applied to personal preference in the dating world. You are either attractive, or you aren't, and you don't get to decide for the observer. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder when they view you. not in your own perceptions.

WeedenWainbow · 2013-12-10T14:03:47+00:00

Someone my height (5'6") once told me,"tall guys can be out of shape and still get girls. Being short doesn't mean you can't get girls, but if you're short you better be ripped. Short, or out of shape, but not both."

I took it to heart, and now I have an eating disorder and body dismorphia issues and a hot girlfriend

Such is life

TreyWalker · 2013-12-10T15:42:30+00:00

A fat pig can quit stuffing her gullet and get off her toilet cushion to fix her situation. A short lad can't exactly hang off the monkey bars for 14 hours and hope for the best.

Jackal_6 · 2013-12-10T07:55:55+00:00

Every day I am thankful that I am 6'4.

misticshadow · 2013-12-10T19:38:54+00:00

am i the only one around here who sees the statistical fallacy, the study never mentions what is the baseline response rate of women in those regions is. Maybe new yorkers contact only 1.2% of the time because the baseline is fucking 1.2%. So before we all jump the bandwagon and cry out our insecurities make sure to check if what is presented is even logically correct.

starryknight · 2013-12-10T11:49:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Horrorbuff2 · 2013-12-10T05:27:23+00:00

Online dating is very difficult for short men-(5'9" and under). I am 5'8", and have never had a problem getting with women in a bar or club. Most of these women if they did online dating, I am sure would say they are not interested in a man under 5'10". Don't just use height as an excuse for not being able to attract women. The whole "I don't date short men" or "I don't date tall women" is just stupid. Sure, we are disdvantaged online because Online dating has caused people that really shouldn't be picky, to be picky. But, The vast majority of women are attracted to confidence-(not Red Pill confidence), success and of course, a good body. Things you can have at ANY height-(hell, even Peter Dinklage could get more ladies than your average 6'2" dude). And take a look at the guys who teen girls and young women are attracted to nowadays. Bieber, Taylor Lautner, Daneil Radcliffe, Bruno Mars, 3 of the 5 guys from One Direction. Every woman's favourite porn star James Deen is only 5'7". And all of the dudes I mentioned are under 5'8".

Don't feel down if you are like me and vertically challenged and read articles like this. They are total bullshit. I used to let it get it to me as a teenager, but not anymore.

batfiend · 2013-12-10T12:00:10+00:00

So call them shallow.

That is shallow.

Not as if height is something you can change, like you can weight.

And don't think these are the words of a man who is bitter about his height and wants to bully fat chicks.

I was a fat chick. When my SO & I got together, I was almost 100kg. I lost over a third of that weight, and now I'm healthy & happy.

People do treat me differently now, that's just reality. Some people are shallow. Reality. We can all be shallow at times, I'm sure.

theskepticalidealist · 2013-12-11T07:05:00+00:00

It's very simple. Women want men who have socially dominant characteristics. If they feel the man is "too short" which can mean shorter than them or some arbitrary amount taller than they are, its because they feel as if the man lacks dominance. Women want a dominant man. That is simply what women biologically are driven to be attracted to. This obviously is awkward for a feminist because if you point it out in these terms they realise this implies women want men to dominant them, and that is true, they do. That is why rape fantasies, rough sex or just plain being dominated sexually is so popular with women.

The biggest problem is denial and that happens not just with feminists. My sister didnt want to accept we could generalise what women find attractive and to do that actually argued that confidence isn't actually a characteristic women generally find attractive, despite just moments earlier saying what a man needs to do is "be comfortable being himself". She also tried saying in some apparent attempt to be diplomatic that you can't generalise about what men find attractive either, as if its not obvious that men tend to be attracted to youth and beauty. This is always the reaction I've seen, absurd denials about reality as if they have lived in isolation from society their whole lives.

Men on the other hand dont seem to have a problem admitting their preferences or that many men are shallow.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2013-12-10T15:30:57+00:00

I also note that out of all the boroughs of New York City, Manhattan is the most height-biased one.

You know, the most expensive and famous part of the city. The center of social status.

This really is (unfortunately) quite telling.

Oh, and for all of those "not related to Men's Rights" people:

Height bias is clearly descended from gender stereotypes. Men are expected to be strong and assertive, and this is associated with height. The association is significantly stronger in Chinese culture, where the government won't hire people who aren't tall enough.

Height is associated with power/status/competence, probably due to the fact that taller people can often intimidate shorter people and thus evoke additional social presence. Since men are expected to have power/status/competence (and the more you have the more GAAAR REAL MANLY you are), then Real Men Are Tall.

Ergo, height bias against men is gender policing.

Therefore, this is a men's rights issue because gender stereotypes screw men over.

ExPwner · 2013-12-10T13:58:56+00:00

Oh see, that's because one is genetic and the other is 100% controlla-

OH WAIT!

PierceHarlan · 2013-12-10T13:31:58+00:00

But . . . that's . . . different.

Yeah. Different.

MrKocha · 2013-12-10T14:22:49+00:00

Wish there was something witty or intelligent to say about it. But well, women preferring things for apparently understandable reasons, while men are generalized shallow bastards is a concept I'm quite familiar with.

It is a shame that height can't worked on as easily as weight can be though.

A good portion of the stuff men care about can be fixed either through, diet, exercise, or in worst case scenarios: plastic surgery, which is kind of the ultimate lie to evolutionary preference, right?

Height? I've heard about a few really invasive surgeries on the legs (breaking them and extending them), but you're mostly stuck with it.

Quarri · 2013-12-10T14:52:14+00:00

This article talks about replying percentage for under 6ft without comparing it to over 6ft. We don't know if the reply rate for over 6ft is any better. So the information presented is useless.

Also 5ft 6inch is average so anything above that could be considered tall.

Edit: the article does not say being tall is biologically more attractive. It says it indicates the same things in many cultures.

The_Dirt_McGurt · 2013-12-10T15:44:10+00:00

Wait so this is just on dating sites right? Then I'll refer to /u/rapey_raperson's comment at the top--women on dating sites are using it as a sort of lottery game, there's plenty of 6ft tall dudes on that site cruising for pussy and the girls cut it off at that limit because, fuck it, why not take a shot at nailing the 6'4" dude?

I'm 5'9 (at least i've been saying that, probably should go get measured because i'm probably close to 5'8 barefoot), and while it's apparent to me that this is a bit of a disadvantage for getting girls, the bigger disadvantage is letting it affect you. I'm still taller than most of the women out there, and I just make an effort to keep my appearance and attitude as pristine as possible, and I can honestly say my height has had a negligible impact on my sexual pursuits. Of course, I do preclude myself from girls over an inch taller than me because I'm realistic.

WickedHaute · 2013-12-10T16:53:29+00:00

[permanently deleted]

gsettle · 2013-12-10T17:52:14+00:00

Move along...nothing new here.

whatainttaken · 2013-12-10T18:24:11+00:00

This sort of discussion doesn't seem very productive to me. We're talking sexual preference here - that's a very complex issue that's difficult to change and certainly something that's not to be legislated. What real progress can we hope to gain by pointing out that people of both genders prefer a certain physical ideal? Why not focus on immediately actionable issues like job discrimination and unfair family law statutes?

2013-12-10T19:12:40+00:00

Fuck online dating anyway

I_hate_alot_a_lot · 2013-12-10T21:28:50+00:00

I'm 5'4" FUCK.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-12-10T21:29:27+00:00

And yet if you deliberately ignore all the examples where men face this you can easily "prove" that objectification is something only women experience.

coggser · 2013-12-10T09:14:40+00:00

you can't help who you find attractive. you don't wake up and decide "tall slim women. I will make them my favourite" or "tall built guys, thats my type" its like saying you decide who you fall in love with. it doesn't work like that. people don't find you attractive. deal with it. im 5'9 and couldn't care less. the world is a big place. plenty of women will be accepting. same goes for women.

that being said height is an uncontrollable factor. weight isn't. I can't grow taller but people can loose weight. obesity is a serious issue in society. can't source the study,b it showed people undeunderestimated how overweight people were. I.e saying they were overweight when they were obese. or saying they were obese when they were super obese.

MrSparkle666 · 2013-12-11T02:19:36+00:00

Guys, this study is completely erroneous. This website has absolutely no clue how to conduct research. There is no control group! That means the results are completely and utterly meaningless. For example, the response rate for short men in NYC is 1.2%, but how do we know that's not the response rate for all men in NYC in general isn't also 1.2%? We don't, because they didn't include that data in the study! This is completely idiotic and unscientific. Please stop giving this bullshit site any more traffic.

EDIT: Here is some real data that actually reflects how height affects responses in online dating. As you can see, short guys still have a harder time, but it is nowhere near as extreme as the OP's study suggests: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-biggest-lies-in-online-dating/

2013-12-10T10:51:53+00:00

I'm 5 11'...I know that is not short and there are many guys who would love to be that height. I still get pissed sometimes though because women always go for the tall guys. So if you go to a bar to get laid you'll see 30 girls pining over 5 guys....Im not desperate and I've had my fair share of the pie but it always annoys me when I think about how much easier it would be if I was a couple inches taller

xxjosephchristxx · 2013-12-10T13:39:39+00:00

Anyone consider that these women are also called shallow?

ZorseHunter · 2013-12-10T14:09:09+00:00

Men who prefer slim women are called shallow

What... No they aren't

Spooge_Tits · 2013-12-10T07:15:54+00:00

I never go for women taller than me. I'm 180 cm, not that short, but women taller than that seem weird to me.

2013-12-10T18:55:14+00:00

Men are judged by height, women are judged by weight, and this is the reality of most "double standards" - a different standard we choose to ignore half of.

cryptobomb · 2013-12-10T13:29:19+00:00

Yeah, I really like how women are entitled to be completely full of shit.

poorlytaxidermiedfox · 2013-12-10T14:21:26+00:00

Won't be long before all these dating sites start forcing men to reveal their penis size, just to spare a couple more people the horror of getting to know someone that isn't perfect on paper..

2013-12-10T15:08:29+00:00

I don't think they're automatically "shallow," but some of them have rigorous standards for what "slim" looks like - I'm speaking as a slim girl who has been told by a guy that she was more attractive than her friend because her friend was a little bit curvy (but still closer to slim on the spectrum). I know men like him aren't rare. Can't speak on the short man thing because I've been attracted to short men so I don't know what the logic could be.

jswerve386 · 2013-12-10T15:44:12+00:00

My thing has always been that I don't mind paying for dinners. But of you don't make at least some type of attempt to reach for your purse when the bill comes and just look up at the ceiling when the bill comes I'm gonna feel some type of way about you.

mbillion · 2013-12-10T18:22:17+00:00

women do what they want and neglect mens emotions - I wish I was gay - Unfortunately I have to deal with these wenches

MoFuckinBananas · 2013-12-10T21:46:39+00:00

My cousin is 6'8 in decent shape and not an ugly guy. He is also misogynist (I've helped change him for the better but still... any girl who has sex outside of marriage is a whore to him, dirty). The women still love him. We walk into a club, guess who gets all the attention. Even with his attitude after they start talking to him, still love him and that height.

No I am not jealous. I just have to work a little harder than him at 5'10 175 athletic build at a club. I like a little challenge, makes me appreciate the girls that come with me more. I just don't like the hypocrisy women spew.

turtlehurmit · 2013-12-10T23:10:48+00:00

there are many reasons a woman chooses this. not just one....because preference

UR_TITS_TO_MY_INBOX · 2013-12-10T23:38:17+00:00

What makes it worse is that being fat can be changed, and being short is legitimately a genetic issue. Stuffing your face with McDonalds 4 times a week is not a "genetic problem."

2013-12-11T00:08:05+00:00

I like that my husband and I are roughly the same height. It's nice; I don't have to crane my neck to kiss him. And when I put on heels I'm taller than he is and it's fun! By all rights, though, he should be at least three inches taller than he is - his spine is twisted and that takes your height down quite a bit.

I don't know why someone would let another person's height be the thing on which they decide not to even get to know them...it's so not important. My husband's the same guy whether his spine stays the way it is (and therefore he remains at this height), or whether he has it fixed and gains those inches back. It's like objecting to a man because of the colour of his hair or eyes or skin, or some equally unchangeable aspect of his person.

starbuxed · 2013-12-11T00:41:43+00:00

I'm 6'1, my tall isnt working. Girls arent throwing themselves at me, something got to be broken.

freckles25 · 2013-12-11T02:12:50+00:00

Personally, I have never understood the attraction to tall men... Most men I have been attracted to have been the same height as me (around 5,8) or shorter. Also, a little bit chubby rather than skinny.. To each their own.. I wish people would just realize that everyone is attracted to different things.. And "types" usually change once you get to know personalities.

spinlock · 2013-12-11T02:14:23+00:00

That's women in manhattan not all women. Way to prove that Barbie's not the only one who thinks that math is hard.

2013-12-11T19:14:20+00:00

if you'd like to see how widespread this 'biological preference' really is (and have your blood pressure spike in the process), might i direct you to this twitter account: https://twitter.com/expsnghghtsm

allenahansen · 2013-12-10T08:39:09+00:00

Says who? Mayor Bloomberg is 5'4". Jack Nicholson is maybe 5'6". Javier Bardem say's he's 5'7" but he's not. Voltaire was supposedly 5'3". I would have taken any one of them as a little fuck monkey in their younger day.

Never discount brains, wit, and a$$ets as mitigating factors.

Pubesauce · 2013-12-10T14:08:09+00:00

Most men I know wouldn't date a women taller than them, though, so it sort of works itself out. Their ego comes into play in a big way.

powerdeamon · 2013-12-10T15:55:23+00:00

Yeah im pretty open now, if ill openly say to a woman that wants to go out, that i dont like them because they are fat. Sorry, but being fat is not attractive and is in general nastly to look at.

2013-12-10T15:50:22+00:00

I myself am short and I am not sure why you would want to date when you are short anyway. Think about you have no sexual attraction how are you honestly going to stay with someone you can trust when you have such odds against you.

I wouldn't mind dating someone shorter or taller but I just don't care anymore as it stands the dating game is a dangerous one and I can't even get my foot in the door to begin with. A weekly dosage of anything opiate based can kill your sex drive anyway so it's not something I am too concerned with.

Only thing i can't really substitute for is the companionship but fuck it that's all fairy tale disney bullshit anyway, so there was nothing to substitute for in the beginning.

Ridergal · 2013-12-11T00:22:42+00:00

Sure, all women want the same thing. All men want the same thing. We are all a bunch of stereotypes with no control of our destiny.

Now, let's look at reality. I have two cousins who are in relationships where the woman is taller than the man. I have a very short female friend who specifically wanted a shorter man(less than 5'5"). It was so hard for her to find a guy who posted his short height online.

What men and women varies a lot. For example, I wouldn't want to date a guy over 6 feet tall. Too tall. Luckily there are women who are over six feet tall looking for a date.

2013-12-10T05:06:49+00:00

Meh. You're not missing much, really.

prezbuluskey · 2013-12-10T16:26:26+00:00

what the fuck does this have to do with mens rights

Men who prefer slim women are called shallow. 98.8% of women won't message a short man because of "biological preference."

Comments

shotsfired

Title	Men who prefer slim women are called shallow. 98.8% of women won't message a short man because of "biological preference."
Author	thealternativeside
Upvotes	1971
Comments	469
Date	December 10, 2013 5:05 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1sixsk/men_who_prefer_slim_women_are_called_shallow_988/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/men-who-prefer-slim-women-are-called-shallow-988.1156565 https://theredarchive.com/post/1156565