This Sub really undervalues the importance of social skills and Personality

obviousredflag · 2024-05-23T13:42:38+00:00

Like when you go outside and see who's actually with these attractive women; most of these men are not ''chads'' (they might have a one or two ''chad traits) but almost all seem very socially aware, look cool and look fun to be around.

Who are the Chads with, then?

Necessary-Ask-3619 · 2024-05-23T14:15:45+00:00

Dating is like Interview with elimination rounds.

1st round is looks. You don't meet that, you don't get to the 2nd round to show your personality. Your only hope then is you meet someone with whom you either that your intentions or have no dating intentions, they get to know you slowly and then develop an attraction for you. Which rarely happens.

Let's not forget the feedback loop. If you are good looking, you are well received which makes you confident which helps with social skills & personality. Also, Halo effect.

Good looking guys on paper that were boring or uncool ever got attractive women.

HAHAHA...

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-05-23T12:41:08+00:00

How the fuck do you reach the stage where you can present your personality to a woman if you don't pass attractiveness check for her to consider acknowledging your existence?

caption291 · 2024-05-23T14:58:03+00:00

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EntertainerWild7391 · 2024-05-23T13:25:54+00:00

I lived with a guy that was good looking, not tall to be fair, like maybe 5ft 8, but model tier face and a ripped body, didn't really do anything outside of his job, other than drink alcohol and have sex and he never struggled to find women to sleep with, even managed to have a foursome with three women he met and smoked weed with in a park (I know it's not a bullshit story because he took photos and videos), I went out for a few drinks with some friends back in college and one of the guys that came along was french, very handsome, but barely spoke english, he had women coming onto him without even having to speak. It's something I've seen over and over again and was even on the receiving end of ocassionally in my early twenties, with women making out with me or putting my hand in their pants in clubs and shit without me having really said anything to them. Really, knowing how good looking guys get treated by women and how easy women give them access to their body, makes me roll my eyes when people yap on about personality. Personality might make the idea of a relationship with you more palatable, but it's never going to get you the real, raw, sexual desire that physically attractive men get; these guys really are out there getting pornstar experiences and people act like eventually convincing someone to have vanilla sex with you every now and then in exchange for commitment is something to strive for.

Acrobatic_Computer · 2024-05-23T15:14:33+00:00

The problem with this is that you're glossing over what "social skills" consist of. The social skills needed for successful dating as a man are very distinct from the social skills needed to just make friends.

I also think that the red pill is generally not the idea that social skills don't matter and nothing can improve your position, but that rather sociability is something that is independent of personality and is able to be improved / developed along specific systematic lines.

For example:

Any below average guy with an average or above average GF seemed to always be fun, cool, confident and funny. [FCCF]

The strong blue pill position is that essentially the path to achieving being "FCCF" is about embracing an inner "authentic self" (not always put that way with that language) which lets you open up and be FCCF. The strong red pill position is more that you can study what makes people come across as FCCF, and then reshape yourself in that image, regardless of your personal proclivity for it.

Pegmaster6969696969 · 2024-05-23T14:29:04+00:00

Looks and status is what gets you in the radar, the rest is just support.

You might be the most sociable person with the best personality and most charisma, but if she doesn't think you are attractive from the very beginning then there is absolutely no way to advance.

Let's also not forget the Halo Effect, your personality and skills will be judged based on your appearance!

AFuzzyMuffin · 2024-05-23T14:12:34+00:00

OP in your fantasy world maybe. But go take a look at reddit threads from people who lost weight or got fit.

MANY people complain that the people around them say “your personality” got better etc when they are exactly the same way. It’s a concept people are not cognitively aware of. Social skills do not truly matter.

Jello_Vivid · 2024-05-23T14:34:48+00:00

The only issue I have with this is that it's subjective so are we suppose to conform to what other people think is interesting or do you believe you should just be naturally who you are and be unashamed about it. This is in regards to personality.

An example of this is I've been called boring for not liking certain music but if you are into sports and fitness is that boring. The true advice I think should be to find people that match your personality and interests. I guess this relates to personality specifically but you can still have great social skills and still not vibe personality wise which leads to no result without common interests.

Keep_Forever666 · 2024-05-23T16:08:55+00:00

I can text my winning personality all day long on a dating app, but when she meets me, if she doesn't like what she sees, that all goes out the window

Weekly-Vacation-6929 · 2024-05-23T12:35:16+00:00

Personality and social skills are a reflection of your looks most of the time. How social and cool you are is as much as society lets you.

Attractive -> Invited to places -> stories to talk about -> seen as interesting and respected -> more confident

Women wonder why tall men tend to be confident while short men are napoleonic. Surely it’s not constant positive reinforcement they receive that validate their existence everyday.

Muscletov · 2024-05-23T13:07:05+00:00

When it comes to men, the only personality trait that is close to looks, money and status in importance is the following:

Being non-neurotic

Direct-Alternative70 · 2024-05-23T15:03:23+00:00

Looks do something at first. Then it’s about personality.

Looks is how you get them. Personality is how you keep them.

purplish_possum · 2024-05-23T13:08:33+00:00

Guys can't have any obvious defects. A hapless personality is an obvious defect.

A guy who's 6'2"+ with an athletic body and decent face need only have a not terrible personality.

GridReXX · 2024-05-23T13:43:20+00:00

I don’t say this with malintent, but just trying to clarifyingly explain why you’ve observed what you’ve observed about this sub.

This sub is frequented by a lot of under-socialized introverted men with robot-brained leaning tendencies who likely have a touch of the tism or are clinically diagnosed with ASD.

They found this sub because they were likely struggling with dating.

Because of the above bolded, they detrimentally undervalue the importance of interpersonal bonding, interpersonal skills, and having rich interpersonal relationships; and how these things pay dividends in other aspects of one’s QOL.

They genuinely conceive differently. They’re wired differently due to their genetics and their life experiences thus far. Rapport-building platonically and romantically is more difficult for them than the average person.

John-Nada_ · 2024-05-23T16:03:41+00:00

It values tism, what did you thought is going on here? haha

BCRE8TVE · 2024-05-23T21:54:46+00:00

I mean you are not wrong, but on dating apps my friends odds went way down when he showed he had the personality of being a janitor and the social skills of being less than 6 feet tall.

Ironically enough he made different profiles, and he had the most matches and the most responses when he was downright rude and condescending.

Social skills and personality absolutely matter, but looks is what gets your foot on the door online, and in person you have to be on contact with someone multiple times to get the chance to show off your personality, and if you blow it with her then you blew it with most of that social group, because you can't go on a social group and ask out all the women one by one until one says yes without seeming desperate.

I think you have it backwards. Looks and status are the catalyst that carries personality and social skills forward, but it is social skills and personality that carries and sustains a healthy relationship.

You don't got the looks and thr status, you ain't getting into any relationships, almost regardless of your personality and social skills, and if you got looks and status but no personality or social skills you ain't staying in a relationship.

You can be fun, cool, confident, funny, and be a complete asshole, but if you're good looking being an asshole doesn't matter. If you're not good looking, not being an asshole doesn't matter.

funfacts_82 · 2024-05-24T09:11:23+00:00

Yes social skills are important but they also dont lead to better results than status or looks. A balance is required to be truly succesful

VWGUYWV · 2024-05-23T12:45:35+00:00

I see it as looks, money, status have to meet a personal threshold for each woman

Beyond that, she will give you a chance and the better your personality is then the more she’ll like you

However, even beyond that threshold, looks/money/status still have an effect

Let’s say a woman only dates male 7s or above

She meets a male 7 that is the most amazing person

She also meets a 9 that is less amazing but just a panty dropper

She will be torn perhaps

Also, the extreme good looks will make her view the 9 more favorably even in non physical ways and confound her judgment

Men are like this to, but it’s mostly men that think and communicate about this

Women understanding themselves so well is very overrated of a concept

Feeling strong emotions and thinking about the emotions of yourself and others doesn’t mean you have perspective on them

Solondthewookiee · 2024-05-23T15:01:50+00:00

For the love of god I AM NOT SAYING PERSONALITY is the only thing that matter here

The fact that this disclaimer even needs to be made really demonstrates how bad faith red pillers are.

gusGus2222_ · 2024-05-23T13:29:48+00:00

I wish women would follow this advice. Develop a personality, don’t just rely on being hot to keep a man. Contribute don’t just expect men to carry the convo for you.

Most women can’t tell a story, talk about themselves a lot, don’t want to participate in male pastimes but want us to join in the female ones…

If I look out and see who lacks personality it’s not men. All y’all women copy and paste the same Instagram girls life and try to make it their own.

Just because men don’t act like women, we need “personality”. When most women’s personality is as interesting as watching paint dry.

Most women don’t even have hobbies outside of getting brunch with their friends, drinking, and watching tv. In my experience anyway, they rely on others for their entertainment.

I would also point personality is a bonus. You have to have all the other stuff to even have a chance to show your “personality”. Women don’t pursue relationships with men just because they are interesting.

Dense-Tell-6147 · 2024-05-23T13:41:51+00:00

There is plenty of people (many women, but also men like me) in this sub who in fact point out how important these are.

It's also important to understand what dating "strategy" one pursues. ONS? FWB? LTR?

The requirements might be extremely different: a fuccboi might not need too much "personality" to get laid, but I don't know how statistically significant the category is. And to be a fuccboi it takes outstanding looks, one either has them or not, there is no cheat code

If we think on the longer term:

One's "house in order" is not sufficient ("I worked on my personality, I am no longer a creep, now what?") but is necessary. No good relationship can start from a place of need and clinginess is so evident that people can almost smell it
Same goes for social proof. It's not enough, but without it one will easily (and legitimately) raise questions about his social skills

Modern society somehow pushes for instant gratification. That's not how getting into a relationship works: there must be attraction, but there must also be assurance of mutual respect of each other's personality and agency. Gone are the days where people paired up for providing, a relationship nowadays is a willful mutual choice between peers with shared responsibilities who enjoy each other's company.

Sure, there can be a coup de foudre between two people who find each other very attractive, but that's outliers and also no guarantee whatsoever of durable compatibility.

Media would make society a great service weeding out romcom bs that has no statistical relevance in reality.

ExcelsiorState718 · 2024-05-23T20:05:06+00:00

Because the only trait that really matters is being a psychopath...women are litteraly saying they would rather meet a bear than a man but then turn around and date felons pookies serial killers serving life in prison

I literally watch hundreds of social interactions daily I lived above a club.. sociall skills only matter if your attractive in fact you don't even need social skills if the woman is attracted to you..

And sure with good skills a beta can win a woman over but then she will just drain his bank account and cheat on him at best at worst shell stay for the long run and get married then drain his bank account cheat on him and have a few kids that aren't biologically his.

pg_throwaway · 2024-05-23T13:23:39+00:00

Of course, because most people here, especially who are part of extremist ideologies like red pill, have poor social skills, bad personalities, and no emotional / social intelligence.

Why would they promote something they know they don't have as important to dating / relationships?

That's why they heavily rely on money, status, and looks to compensate for their lack of basic social skills and boring / cringy personalities.

They also see pointing out the importance of social skills as a direct attack on them, becauese they know they are failures in that area.

KayRay1994 · 2024-05-23T14:44:38+00:00

Of course it does, you’re talking about a group of people who want to stew in their own misery. Give them literally any information and they’ll pick it up in the worst (and often one of the most untrue) ways possibles

And now, men of ppd (cause we all know one gender carries this mindset on this sub), i am not saying “looks don’t matter” or “personality only matters”, however as an average or slightly below average man (which most of you are, i bet), you have more leeway than you think. You’d be surprised how much not being a bitter self loathing ninny would do.

N-Zoth · 2024-05-23T12:35:52+00:00

This advice is good, but the trouble is in the implementation details. Dudes hear "have good social skills and an interesting personality" and have no idea what y'all talking about.

Pro tip 1: don't waste your time learning "game". Instead, learn empathy and active listening. These two skills have much more broad application than "game", which you don't really need at all. If you can actually hear what people are trying to tell you an provide interesting responses, they will like you and and want to hang out with you 100%.

Pro tip 2: you don't need to try to be someone you're not to be interesting. Instead, pick up a creative hobby and use it to replace some of your pure consumerist hobbies like video games. Just cultivating a creative mindset will make you that much more interesting to be around and it has a lot of carryover into other activities.

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DecisionPlastic9740 · 2024-05-23T18:25:49+00:00

Is that something that can be improved on?

raldabos · 2024-05-24T01:28:42+00:00

Like when you go outside and see who's actually with these attractive women; most of these men are not ''chads''

Where the f do you people live? Attractive people date attractive people, average people date average people and ugly people date ugly people.

There are exceptions, 1 in 100,000 maybe, but they're not the norm.

FrameWorried8852 · 2024-05-24T15:15:10+00:00

There are plenty of socially retarded/ antisocial violent men getting fucked. Looks matter first and foremost

ScreenTricky4257 · 2024-05-23T13:01:44+00:00

It's reasonable to expect people to do things that have an objective improvement on their lives, i.e., to get a good job, to be hygienic, to practice skills.

It's not reasonable to expect people to "improve their personality" if that just means to be more useful to others. I'm introverted, prefer staying home, like to argue, and have odd sexual kinks. I don't see those as personality flaws that need to be corrected.

Proof-Credit8225 · 2024-05-23T16:55:23+00:00

People with social skill are very anoying, I cant be like that

NewOCLibraryReddit · 2024-05-23T17:27:36+00:00

Op, has any man on this planet ever proposed to you? Meaning has any man ever found anything about you highly valuable, and worth spending the rest of their life with, and proposed? Otherwise, you don't bring anything to the table besides WAP.

princedune · 2024-05-23T21:45:21+00:00

If anything this sub overvalues social skills and personality. At the end of the day you cant show these traits unless women give you the chance, and to get that chance you need attraction.

Updawg145 · 2024-05-24T21:01:26+00:00

I've never not been able to see this line of thinking as anything other than delusional cope. For any of this to really be true you'd have to have all the hot girls married to "average" dudes, leaving the chads married to what, frumpy girls? Is that how the world works in your mind? You've never driven through some rich part of town and seen a bunch of hot girls with chads and millionaires? Do you usually drive through brokie-ville and see all the charismatic salt of the earth bad boys with their arms wrapped around 10/10 models?

Like I get exceptions exist but there's only so much hyper-reality I can take.

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2024-05-24T22:12:45+00:00

See.... the problem is society caters to extroverts and punishes introverts.... if you need a large social circle to succeed in dating that circles probably more quantity than quality for one and for two introverts aren't socially awkward they just don't like to be around large groups of people they don't know for no reason

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Acrobatic_Ad_8952 · 2024-05-25T19:39:08+00:00

I do have poor social skills but that's something completely out of my control. You can't develop social skills when you have nobody to interact with.

Unusual_Implement_87 · 2024-05-25T23:03:21+00:00

How people perceive your personality and social skills is based on how you look. It's called the halo effect. Also you brought up a point that a lot of red pill and just men in general bring up about how they see ugly or average guys with good looking women all the time, however whenever they point them out to me 100% of the time the guy is significantly better looking, or they are just two random people standing next to each other in public that could just be siblings. Social skills and personality are insignificant, the reason a lot of men like to believe in it is that it gives them hope that if they just do X or learn how to do Y then they too can get sex, which leads them to PUA nonsense.

Also social skills is something you can't easily measure, if I show you a guy with a "good" personality with good social skills who still struggles you will just find a way to handwave it away or use mental gymnastics to keep moving the goal post.

I know a lot of incel/ugly guys who have "good" social skills and I enjoy hanging out with, who have normal jobs some of who are in management or c suite executive positions that you don't get to without having soft skills who were still sexless and relationshipless in their 20s.

Think_Reporter_8179 · 2024-05-23T13:07:21+00:00

My social skills has landed me three beautiful women. It certainly isn't my looks, lol.

Being interesting and witty (funny), goes a loooooooong way.

Lenovo_Driver · 2024-05-23T15:10:57+00:00

This won’t come across well here at all.

qwertyuduyu321 · 2024-05-23T13:53:36+00:00

This Sub really undervalues the importance of social skills and Personality

Does it?

The few times I check in, psychology is ranked 2nd only to physiognomy in terms of importance which, of course, is correct. At least, that's the impression I'm getting.

tadL · 2024-05-23T13:27:56+00:00

No what a lot of people lack is accepting the biology. Our nature.

Question for women. Did you after the first kiss ever felt "why I am with him? What attracted me to him?"

All the "butterflies" are gone?

babazuki · 2024-05-23T14:14:18+00:00

Women just sit around bored with no aim, they rely on men to show them direction. Entertain them. Introduce them them people.

Why else would you need someone fun and cool and funny if you could have fun yourself?

It sounds right, because I'm sexist. But is that what you meant to say?

FunkGetsStrongerPt1 · 2024-05-23T22:09:57+00:00

Agree completely.

And I would argue, apart from height, most women don't care about looks one bit.

TheKindlyPoltergeist · 2024-05-24T08:44:01+00:00

Personality is the most important thing by far. Sure looks are great and money helps but ant the end of the day a women has to want to spend time around you. That means you need to give your self some self confidence, have hobbies, show that you have empathy, and develop a sense of humor. These traits show that your already a smart, happy, and supportive person which is pretty much attractive to everyone.

superlurkage · 2024-05-23T14:07:56+00:00

Yes. Because it’s harder, complicated, and they don’t care about or like it

Title	This Sub really undervalues the importance of social skills and Personality
Author	LaborAustralia
Upvotes	54
Comments	673
Date	May 23, 2024 12:06 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1cyfd8a/this_sub_really_undervalues_the_importance_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/this-sub-really-undervalues-the-importance-of.1519287 https://theredarchive.com/post/1519287

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