Plausible Deniability

NordJitsu · 2021-09-07T23:26:17+00:00

The whole point of this claim is that it’s subconscious. Why would you expect to learn anything by asking people about it?

This would be like asking voters whether question wording affects their opinions on public policy issues. They’re all gonna say no, because it’s subconscious.

We are often a mystery to ourselves and even when we know why/what we think we’re often unwilling to admit it.

So even if a woman admits that she’s more likely to have sex with a guy who doesn’t make the direct ask, I don’t know why you’d expect their stated reasoning to be what’s actually going on in their head.

thoughtfulandthotful · 2021-09-08T05:54:35+00:00

I get 10x more casual sex now by telling women straight up that I just want sex, then I did before when I went through all the traditional motions. Being upfront and honest with intentions is like the biggest cheat code for hooking up (assuming you have your shit together). There’s a lot of women who only want to fuck too — they just want choose this outcome and not be duped into it through game or whatever. And once you make your intentions known, many of them feel more comfortable revealing theirs. When you’re not direct with women you leave way more up to chance, and it makes it easier for time wasters to hog all your time/attention and then use the plausible deniability escape hatch when they’ve drained you of all the validation/entertainment they need from you for one night. I weed out time wasters like this by being super direct, and if they are acting iffy or non enthusiastic about smashing, I just move on until they are ready to actually get it popping. This actually intrigues many of them because it shows them that they don’t get “free” access to my company/attention and that I know I don’t have to play by the rules they make their simp fan club follow. They also respect my honesty and I get more repeat sex because they feel they can trust me to keep it real with them. Your results may vary but I strongly recommend removing plausible deniability from the table altogether and just being direct with each other. You may be surprised at how far you get.

Classic_Touch · 2021-09-08T09:36:59+00:00

I hate when a man uses things as "cuddling" or "Watch tv" instead of just saying "Can we have sex". I will always say no if they lie about it.

Demasii · 2021-09-07T19:48:14+00:00

It's not that women don't want to openly admit to wanting sex but sex doesn't take majority of the time of a date.

It kinda weird to accept a date based around an activity that usually only takes 5 to 15 minutes.

cvslengthbucketlist · 2021-09-07T19:14:59+00:00

Plausible deniability is the reason why women give you hints to approach but not a roadmap. Nobody likes rejection so being ambiguous is a great way to avoid it as much as possible. Unfortunately men are expected to approach so there's no way not to make your interest obvious. With sex it's similar but in addition there's the element of not wanting to appear too easy (plausible deniability for her) as well as filtering out guys who are too forward (plausible deniability for him).

It definitely exists and it can be aggravating and confusing sometimes for open communication, but it's easy to see why it exists.

Dagenius1 · 2021-09-07T20:45:42+00:00

Boy..putting aside the specific topic of this thread, there is a stunning amount of dishonesty in the comments. 😂 that’s all I really have to say

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-09-07T20:10:05+00:00

I believe in being as honest as possible but I'm gonna laugh at women of all people being upset with deception 🤣🤣🤣

FinancialThanks1 · 2021-09-07T20:18:17+00:00

A certain type of woman is over represented in these comments. The majority of women would rather sex not be overtly mentioned in the early stages of dating even when they want it.

Icy_Consideration905 · 2021-09-07T22:05:45+00:00

if you want to get an honest answer from women you need to change the tone of the question , use more accepted language , and an honest advice from me , never ask ppd/reddit women on general about anything , the dishonesty im facing while reading the comments is something out of this world , any person believe what women say should believe that personality matter more than looks and take "be yourself " as a valid advice, why men cant understand that , women are social creature much more than men they deceive with everything(personality,looks) they do , two hours ago i was in a wedding and my mind can t process the hypocrisy of women (she kiss hug almost had sex with her female friend then she turned to me and insulted her ) and i cant even speak about makeup(cant even recognise my female relatives ) !!! women lie ..period , they hate honesty !! (little rant im sorry)

DarkMindwithReason · 2021-09-07T19:10:48+00:00

All I know is, in the West, this sounds like a court case.

quabbicoo · 2021-09-07T20:53:25+00:00

ITT: Men who don’t understand that most* women want to feel like you enjoy their company and aren’t just playing a game to get sex.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2021-09-07T20:14:23+00:00

Lol its not plausible deniability. Its the seduction

No we do not want you to lie to us about what you want. Telling a women you're into that you want to have sex them is fine. But if you want to get to the Sexy times most (not all!) want some sort of seduction, especially if its not an established relationship.

Edit:*sigh for people who have gotten their wires crossed between romance and seduction

Two people go in a date . They are attracted to each other. Woman clicks with man. She is attracted him. Yes she is up for sex.

He asks her to come home with him. She says yes. This is because she does want to fuck him.no one gets asked to a guys house after a date and not expect sex.

They get to his house. She has decided she wants to fuck him. But she now wants to get into the mood for sex. So she flirts and he flirts back. This is called the seduction.

Some girls are willing to skip that step. Good luck finding them.

Essentially

The date: convince her she likes you enough to fuck you

Bring her over: put her in the mood to fuck you.

You know what the biggest mood killer is, especially with a dude you just met and who you haven't established a rapport yet?

Going straight to the physical and forgoing the nice mood setting part.

Yes yes yes we know. Women are so much work blah blah blah. It is what it is

Orange_Paisley · 2021-09-07T19:34:42+00:00

Yeah, if you ask me if I want to have sex. I’ma say no unless we are already dating. If you ask me on a date or ask me if I want to hang out or do something together, sex may or may not follow. Because I don’t want your attention solely focused on my vagina. Sorry not sorry.

Flightlessbirbz · 2021-09-08T00:48:51+00:00

First of all, even when sex is expected, basic social skills are necessary. I mean would you rather a woman loudly announce she’s going to “go take a shit” when you’re at a restaurant or simply excuse herself to go to the bathroom? What I’m saying is you don’t have to hide your intentions and it’s best if you don’t, but some things like “wanna fuck?” just don’t sound sexy even if you want to have sex with the person. Flirting and seduction are important for building desire. Way overly direct anything is going to end up sounding awkward and rude and not sexy.

That being said, it can definitely also go too far the other way, where the game just gets kind of ridiculous and both people are waiting for the other to make a move, or one assumes the other wants sex when they do not. As cheesy as it sounds, something like “would you like to take this to the bedroom?” is a good way of asking if someone is down for sex without being vulgar or aspie about it. Basically, most women want a gradual buildup of attraction and physical contact. Not to be tricked OR propositioned.

ashpr0ulx · 2021-09-07T19:28:28+00:00

if i go on a date and enjoyed the man’s company, i would prefer if he ask me if i wanna fool around or fuck if that’s what his intent is.

PurplePill_Throwaway · 2021-09-07T22:27:17+00:00

Personally, I like straightforward men that know how to communicate what they want. However, there needs to be a buildup of attraction and chemistry first to make sure we get along well; this takes anywhere from a few hours to a few weeks. Usually I'll throw around hints and flirtatious cues if I feel the chemistry is there. If an acquaintance I haven't spoken to beyond a few sentences was that blunt though, yeah, I'd probably be a bit offended.

Pilling_it · 2021-09-08T07:39:16+00:00

Yeah, they want plausible deniability, but it's also about teasing each other. Even if she's not outright saying dirty stuff, if you care about making her drenched before taking her to bed (which you should), it's a back and forth of mutual teasing.

So... Yes, asking explicitly will most likely kill the desire if you haven't been heating her up enough. Enough vary on the women, and protip : always good to go waaay past the "enough" bar. Show how much you want and is ready to please the other.

RodrigueMakeIt · 2021-09-08T13:04:46+00:00

This must be the result of thousands of years of evolution.

Men want to reproduce fast whereas women want a partner to avoid to be fucked and dumped. Sure there will be some women who will be DTF when you propose sex, but they are a minority.

Whether we accept it or not, thats who we are. Its written in our DNA. We guys just want to fuck. And women or most women at least, are genetically programmed to be seduced before sex. THATS EVOLUTION !!

(The Evolution Of Desire, David Buss. I knew that book would be useful one day)

Glarkin42 · 2021-09-07T22:11:14+00:00

Women definitely don't want to acknowledge the guy asking her out wants to have sex with her unless she is very attracted to him. Not sure why

phantomdilletante · 2021-09-08T01:12:59+00:00

No, it’s real. It’s all about a thing called sub communication. Essentially, she’ll pick up on your desire to sleep with her through your mannerisms and the context you’re interacting in. Whether she wants to acknowledge your desire and engage in having sex with you is dependent on how safe she’ll feel with you, namely because, while she might be able to read you well, she still doesn’t know you. She has no clue if your wanting to fuck her means you want to see if she’ll be good for a relationship, if you’re just wanting to have no strings fun, or if you’re hoping to turn her body into a personal skin suit. So she has to gauge what kind of sexual desire you have for her based on how you express yourself. When you try to state what appears to you to be obvious as a dude, that you want to and intend to fuck her, it comes off to her as your needing to make the subtext the forefront, which comes across as strange and abrasive to her, and thus she’ll lose trust in you. So, even if your intentions for sleeping with her were good, to her it seemed as if you focused too much on it, and not enough on her, and so she won’t feel comfortable with you.

OddChocolate_ · 2021-09-08T10:36:43+00:00

A thread about plausible deniability where the women attempt to disprove plausible deniability and in turn completely prove and validate plausible deniability. You can't make this shit up.

YoMamaz_azz · 2021-09-08T09:26:56+00:00

ITT: Women not liking the connotation of the phrase "plausible deniability" so they reframe it to describe plausible deniability in other words they like better.

AffectionateCitrone3 · 2021-09-08T12:30:04+00:00

All these comments are showing me is to never take dating advice from PPD lol . Some epic levels of hamstering w/ the women in the comments.

GridReXX · 2021-09-08T02:16:01+00:00

My sexuality responds to seduction. Meaning I get aroused by seduction. I am not in a constant state of horniness. Someone asking me “let’s fuck” isn’t seductive to me. So I probably wouldn’t be dtf if they did that unless it was a very sexy or playful vibe and I was still aroused.

But I’m never going to promise to have sex in advance. I don’t know if I’m going to be aroused to want to escalate into into sex until it’s happening.

JennyConcinnity · 2021-09-08T04:49:30+00:00

Personally, I want direct. I want him to say what he wants both in the moment and long term. I don't have sex unless I want a relationship with that man. There is a way to ask directly that is sexy af. It is smooth and turns me on.

When one asks for a drink at his place, women know what he is asking and most women are saying yes when they go over, but have the right to revoke consent at any time should they want to.

But there are men who are much more devious who will lie about their intentions, and play games to get sex then leave the woman confused. I have a problem with these guys.

Deniable plausibility is not necessary for great sex.

CatchPhraze · 2021-09-07T19:15:50+00:00

No. And nothing makes me angrier then a dude saying "Lets hang out and do X" and I'll say "Sure, but lowkey I'm not gona do anything with you cause I'm not like that" and he goes "of course! just X" and then he tries it.

Men should have grown out of that childish lie by high school. Those kind of men are dead to me an aggravate me to no end. I mean why would I reward lying to me with sex? Why would I go "Oh this dude was totally just manipulating me! Better sleep with him, that seems healthy"

Who does this shit actually work on? Its a different story mind you if she doesn't say "Sure but I'm not gona sleep with you" and leaves it vague. Cause girls down to netflix and chill to. But like if she says no, she isn't preforming some Plausible Deniability. Bitch just don't want to fuck you right now. Goddamn.

DreamsOfWishes · 2021-09-07T20:22:16+00:00

Or are you down to have sex if he blatantly suggests it without sugarcoating it?

No.

Women - if you go on a date with man and enjoyed each other's company, do you really require plausible deniability to have sex with him at that point?

It's a possibility, but it's not plausible deniability.

It's that enjoying each others company = foreplay.

Also the reason why you'll never get sex by just asking, you just skipped foreplay and I'm barely ever in the mood without foreplay.

KarmenP · 2021-09-07T19:19:45+00:00

I don’t understand. You have a special term for asking a woman on a date rather than saying “let’s fuck” lmao.

houstongradengineer · 2021-09-07T19:53:32+00:00

If you want to talk about casual sex, my opinion means very little to you due to my lack of experience. If you want to talk about first-time sex in a serious relationship, direct communication is Hella important. Ask what I like and tell me what you like before we even consider sex. I don't want to find myself in bed with Christian Grey, that does not spark joy. If you're going to sleep with me, someone's staying the night and they better pack clothes and stuff. Talk about this. Direct. Fucking. Communication. If she feels like she needs plausible deniability, what you're asking for is probably shady, so be better. Don't try for casual sex at all. Get to know her first and talk to her like a person first. Be husband material. Hey, I told you: you don't want my opinion...

An alternate explanation of why being subtle about more casual sex works: maybe it's a bad idea and she doesn't want to think about it logically too hard, so it's just supposed to start and stop as quickly as possible. I can see that being a thing.

2021-09-07T19:36:40+00:00

There are enough women who will not mind a man being upfront, but in a tactful way. I've never had much tact, just enough sometimes. Maybe take her out for coffee, say you just read some psychology article about delayed gratification and hear what she she has to say about that.

LaPrimaVera · 2021-09-08T03:38:14+00:00

Every time I've had sex with someone for the first time its been planned well in advance, even if he doesn't know that.

manfrom-nantucket · 2021-09-08T14:47:17+00:00

Beating around the bush never works....just be upfront and it will be fine. Those who want the whole jump through hoops so I feel less like a slut for wanting it can be eliminated early without much expenditure of resources and time.

EstablishmentKooky50 · 2021-09-09T18:13:56+00:00

If a woman have genuine desire for you, you don't need to find ways to get her to bed, she will drag you in herself.

cestlovie · 2021-09-12T21:37:15+00:00

Honestly I'd much rather prefer he just be direct with it so I can make my own decision. When he plays like hes not trying to smash and then 2hrs in he starts getting too touchy, it gets to feel like he tried to trap me into sex when he invited me out. It's creepier to play pretend like we're just hanging out, than to just tell me my ass is fat and you wanna grab it. I'm not the best at catching cues, so, unless they've already tried to flirt with me, when someone asks me to come over and smoke, I'm thinking they actually JUST want to hang out and smoke.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-09-07T20:08:15+00:00

No, women do not require plausible deniability to have sex with a man. Women use plausible deniability to spare their own egos/feelings when they're interested in a man. They do things in an indirect or non-verbal way so that if nothing happens, there was no explicit "I'm not interested in you" conversation or exchange. They can just assume that "he missed the hint so it's his fault."

blueribbonskies · 2021-09-07T23:07:46+00:00

Get better at seduction that's really it If you ask me to have sex right off the bat with no romancing I will not be turned on.

Kizka · 2021-09-08T10:08:42+00:00

I don't think I would define it as "plausible deniability" because it's not about that. The few times I had a ONS it was more or less clear where the evening was leading to, but the ambiguity is part of the fun. "Do you want to come home with me to fuck?" is just not sexy and not flirty and can ruin the mood. It baffles me that red pill men developed their own "explanation" of plausible deniability because they think it's important for us to not be seen or to think of us as sluts? That has never been on my mind to be honest. What has been was the thrill, the knowing but not knowing, will he/won't he, if he will, how will he do it? If you're direct, you're removing this part of the whole experience and it's just as much, if not more fun than the sex itself. It's part of the foreplay, if you will, and I'm not in the mood if you just try to skip it.

poppy_blu · 2021-09-07T23:32:20+00:00

Prefect example of what I mean about red pill taking basic shit and repackaging it for low EQ/social aptitude nerds.

Normies would just call this flirting.

januaryphilosopher · 2021-09-07T19:28:14+00:00

No, if I want to have sex I'll ask to have sex. I expect someone who I'm with to do the same. If I agree to watch a movie I'm agreeing to watch a movie, and if I found out that the plan was to get me to have sex all along I'd be annoyed.

HOLYREGIME · 2021-09-07T19:13:55+00:00

The answer is yes. Do you really think men enjoy spending their hard earned money on a woman?

Dating today is just gambling for pussy. If I spend $100 on a woman, hopefully pussy falls out. No pressure though. This is also the lie men tell. Not always with their words, but with their actions.

Novadina · 2021-09-07T21:55:35+00:00

This is just basic social etiquette. It’s considered crass to be upfront about just wanting sex, crassness is a turnoff for many. Also, you want to give the opportunity to go to a more private place to see if there is chemistry before committing to actual sex.

no_user_ID_found · 2021-09-08T05:18:59+00:00

Girls always say, “one thing just led to another”. As a guy, you just need to be good at creating the one thing.

Competitive_Pen2282 · 2021-09-07T19:25:39+00:00

If he suggested to watch movie and chill, I expect watching movie and chill and nothing else. Any active sexual actions I would consider a sexual harassment. Although knowing men I would not ever go to his place for ✨Netflix and chill✨ unless we are already in committed relationships.

PollaTronante · 2021-09-08T04:13:38+00:00

One of the redpill mantras is that women require plausible deniability to have sex with a man (or at least with a new man).

That's a lie they tell themselves to justify lying to a woman so she'll have sex with them. They claim it's the "only way" and then fail to see how they're literally denying women of their agency and of giving informed consent.

Instead, the redpill recommends that men suggest an innocuous activity - like watching a movie, checking out a pet, or listening to music.

There's nothing wrong with that, it's the lying that's the issue. If a man invites me to his place to see his pet, and the pet doesn't actually exist, then I'm leaving (and hoping he lets me, because honestly I'd feel super unsafe at that point).

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-09-07T23:13:42+00:00

As others have said, it's not about "plausible deniability" but rather the connection that's being established. I could see a blunt request for sex working if the encounter is purely casual. But if the intent is to date me, I'd say no and walk away.

neetykeeno · 2021-09-07T23:43:44+00:00

I want a lead up to sex and gradual ramping up of what is being consented to because that gives me time to observe more in the actual context of the scene becoming more sexual, and possibly as a result of seeing you become a little more sexual change my mind, decide you are a worthless piece of shit I wouldn't let within a million miles of my juicy vagina, and nope on outta there.

Men on the other hand, mostly want a straight up yes because most men aren't really worth fucking and thus want to avoid spending even one second more than absolutely necessary waiting for a woman to possibly say "oh .. you're kind of a piece of shit aren't you so guess that's a nope"

Jaktenba · 2021-09-08T03:24:44+00:00

If we're dating then it goes without saying that sex will happen. Better off just asking what kind of relationship she wants with you. I guess other people are weird and do "casual" dates/sex, but that's never been an option to me. Make your intentions known from the start. No creepy "hang out" with your hand sliding up my leg. But if we're hanging out knowing we both like each other and want to date each other it will happen naturally.

Physiologist21 · 2021-09-08T05:33:24+00:00

If you're a woman who requires plausible deniability to have sex, aren't you requiring that men lie to you by omission?

Yep, bingo.

I mean it's pretty obvious women are the weaker sex physically, they are indirect communicators they are the more social sex, they have higher negative emotion and care more about social reputation. As a result they want plausible deniability for everything this is why every man ever has said "man, can I just get with a woman who doesn't play games"

It's not a game, it's just their default mode.

AreOut · 2021-09-08T05:50:55+00:00

if she finds you really attractive you can say whatever you want, I have a Chad friend who tried acting like a nerd/rapist/clown/total idiot and still had sex most of the time, if she is into you she will pretend that "want sum fuk" is said in a funny way and continue like it never happened

OTOH if she is not into you she may take "Hello" as an insult

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Sultmaker_9000 · 2021-09-08T00:25:40+00:00

There's always plausible deniability to an extent, your rejection rate will be significant if you state that your intention was to get her knickers off at some point in a further interaction after getting her number.

mr_pro_con · 2021-09-08T01:23:57+00:00

the book i read on it said it's a feeling women get but are able to overcome it. when i started paying attention i noticed it more than once (always the first time).

it wasnt one of the behaviors shared by other primates though so no clue if it's ever been "properly" studied.

could be bs tho

WilliamWyattD · 2021-09-08T06:28:55+00:00

TRP advice is generally not meant to be taken literally in its absolute form. The fact that there are exceptions is built in and should be understood. Most maxims, in order to stay somewhat pithy and memorable, are not stated in a super qualified, 13th Amendment, Paragraph 7 legalistic form.

Hell, beyond even this specific maxim, refined and sophisticated people or either gender rarely say 'let's fuck!'. There may be times for that, but usually one uses classy euphemisms because it is more romantic, keeps the mood, and can be fun.

usr000nm · 2021-09-08T06:39:32+00:00

As a guy, I get way more yesses by not flat out specifying it's sex we're going back to my place for, even if it is understood. Girls like a little excitement and romance. Scheduled, guaranteed sex isn't romantic. A guy being exciting and making them want to jump his bones is.

They also like safety and changing their minds. If they just promise to come over for a movie, it's easier to peace out if the guy has bad hygiene and stinks during the make out sesh. Know how babies put everything in their mouth? It's a way to explore the world. Know how girls are into kissing? It's a way to explore potential partners.

luliloo · 2021-09-08T15:08:57+00:00

I’m still vetting you so if you ask me right off the bat, my answer will be no.

greenjoe10 · 2021-09-09T16:08:33+00:00

Women "needing" that is definitely TRP bullshit. It's not revolutionary to find that people are more apt to have sex if you blur the lines around intentions leaving more up to the individual to project meaning onto the situation. Plausible Deniability just sounds like another naive attempt at a cheat code for women. I think seeing success in it is more complicated. I think a lot of men could find more success in being honest if they just made the woman feel like she wasn't going to be paraded around as a slut after.

GunnzzNRoses · 2021-09-11T09:43:23+00:00

Yeah, maybe in high school. But stupid ass grade school level concepts like this cease to exist in the adult world.

Come to think of it, a lot of the red pill's theory really only applies to high schooler bullshit - which makes sense, the majority of the fans and theorists, along with the creators of the red pill, are like 14-17.

Holler4Heller · 2021-09-14T22:56:24+00:00

Oh jeez you can’t ask someone if they require plausible deniability doofus

midwestufohunter · 2021-09-07T21:44:05+00:00

It's weird that men always think we are lying.

We say "i'd want sex if we hit it off and have a romantic time" becuase then sex would be an expression of physical affection between two people who like each other.

Y'all hear "i need you to jump through hoops".

But... do you just hold hands with a stranger? do you hug someone who smells bad?

We do things for reasons.

I want good sex and good sex for me is romantic.

I do not want a one night stand or I would say that from the beginning.

It's really gross that I can't have a value I act on without being called a liar because YOU personally have a different value.

Title	Plausible Deniability
Author	SnooSprouts1580
Upvotes	60
Comments	656
Date	September 7, 2021 7:03 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/pjtkqd/plausible_deniability/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/plausible-deniability.1067484 https://theredarchive.com/post/1067484

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