What is a "high value" male?

Hoopy223 · 2022-09-20T18:12:58+00:00

You can check Kelley Blue Book however I am gonna guess its one that has low miles and a high MSRP combined with good reliability ratings.

kalashhhhhhhh · 2022-09-20T19:00:22+00:00

My college student edition of a HVM:

He's physically attractive, intelligent, ambitious, interesting, charismatic and a good person. He's objectively successful in life. A lot of people respect him. People are genuinly drawn to him, both men and women. Cares about his studies and his future. Doesn't have to manipulate girls.

Bandit174 · 2022-09-20T17:41:38+00:00

I guess ultimately it boils down to the same thing (a guy with a lot of options) but I describe it in terms of the traits that give a guys those options so

6ft or taller
face with above average symetry and harmony
deep voice
broad shoulders
big dick
100k salary or more

BlueMountainDace · 2022-09-20T18:00:16+00:00

Various women and men will have their own definition of what they seek from a man they find high value.

Your best bet is to define it for yourself and live to those standards. From that perspective, I think a man is high value if he:

Contributes actively to his community - volunteering, boards, local office, etc
Is financially independent - careers aren't for everyone. I'm on a type of ladder and can see why it is unhealthy, so I'm not going to put that on anyone else. But, at least be able to take care of yourself. If you're married with kids, you should be able to take care of them. My caveat (at least in my life) is that I expect the same of my wife. Once she is finished with her medical training in two years, either of us, on just one salary, would be able to provide for our family.
Treat people like people - it is really easy to allow stereotypes to control how we look at the world. They exist in our mind for a reason. Can you be a person who, when faced with a one-on-one encounter with someone do your best to treat them for who they are rather than what you assume about them?
Pursue knowledge - This isn't the same as pursuing a career, but you should always be interested in learning and honing your mind. The world is so big, beautiful, and full of wonderful things, that if you don't show curiosity to engage with it, you're missing out on too much.
Health - Bodies are bodies and it is hard to break out of physical/dietary ruts. I don't think everyone needs to have six pack or anything like that, I surely don't, but I do think all of us should be pursuing a healthier, more active lifestyle in whatever way makes sense based on where you are. For me that means hiking and dancing.

This is what I've always admired about men I wanted to emulate. I'm not a 100% on any of those, but I'm working towards it in different ways. It has also happened to work out those those things have introduced me to many, many people and helped me find girlfriends in the past and my wife today.

darkvalleys · 2022-09-20T17:59:54+00:00

High value to women, not men . Gosh, it’s all about the men still

MyLastBestChance · 2022-09-20T17:36:42+00:00

That is going to vary tremendously from person to person because we all value different qualities in people and even the commonly valued qualities are weighted differently by everyone.🤷‍♀️

mouldysock100 · 2022-09-20T17:53:32+00:00

Educated and attractive

godhat · 2022-09-20T20:23:49+00:00

has integrity, independence, composure, confidence

is emotionally stable, physically able

and is on his journey, whatever that may be

bunnakay · 2022-09-20T17:32:46+00:00

If we're talking strictly about dating, any man who meets all my standards has value. Any man who doesn't has no value.

Value is subjective. No one has inherent value.

doggiedoc2004 · 2022-09-20T20:08:14+00:00

Lol. No. A HVM is one that has his shit together. Good job. Good social skills. Someone who will be equally invested in the relationship and fair division of household chores and child rearing. This does not necessarily mean 50/50 - it means fairly agreed upon.

Some gals may think the hot fuckboi is HV. It’s often not until we are older that we understand what true HV is. Same for men. Some Men may view the super hot, young (but emotionally unstable/selfish/gold digger) as desirable. With maturity, often realize that HV doesn’t mean a 10/10 looks. It means someone who has their shit together and has the same long term goals and interests as you.

the-mirrorman · 2022-09-20T18:05:39+00:00

A man that thinks for himself

2022-09-20T17:25:45+00:00

The men women want to fuck and men want to be.

TrudosKudos27 · 2022-09-20T21:24:50+00:00

One of the many issues I see on this sub is that people are very frivolously throwing around High Value without a discrete measurement that everyone can agree upon and is backed by data. From the data, our best understanding of determining value is looking holistically at all the attributes and relations between women and men and then finding data on women's preferences and weighting the overall scores appropriately. I can think of starting with the following if we are considering what the data has revealed about generalized female preferences:

Physical Attributes (Physical traits women prefer in interacting with men)

Height
Shoulder to Waist Ratio
Depth/Tone of Voice
Hairline
General Facial Attractiveness - Pronounced Jawbone, Skin texture (acne), etc.
Penis Size - Observed Qualities and Interactive Qualities (Women are really bad at understanding real size measurement of penises and how it actually relates to performance)

Social Attributes (Status or a man's relationship to the environment or other people that this woman associates with or belongs to)

Wealth
- Noted millions of times in studies. No objective measurement of that wealth exists but it would appear that the measurement is directly related to the economic status of the woman and a type of lifestyle she personally feels should be afforded her.
- Also important to note that younger woman generally attempt to predict the future success of an individual as well and will often accept this as proxy for current wealth depending on the age of the male.
Career/Industry Status
- How much status a certain industry (finance, athletes, Entrepreneurs, musicians) holds to the social circles that woman belongs to.
Perceived Desirability from other women
- How much perceived sexual/romantic interest a man receives from other women
Intelligence
- Women often score this in relation to themselves. It is supported by evidence that on average women actually prefer a partner that is smarter than them and this is more of the measurement that women find attractive than some sort of generalized feature.
Confident
- How confidently does a man hold himself in his personal interactions
Self-Sufficient/Independence
- This is a point that spurns a lot of debate. There is increased social response from women saying that they want men to be more vulnerable and honest about their emotions. The response from men to this is that this is something women say they want but that in reality, they do not want because it actually makes them lose attraction. I think this personally correlates to the fact that vulnerability usually involves someone revealing that they are not as independent as originally thought and probably requires emotional/mental investment and this is a turnoff to most women which I assume has evolutionary reasoning behind it. I don't believe this mechanic is well-studied but my personal hypothesis is that it is related to dual-mating strategies and that women desire a man who is independent as an actual mate because it would suggest better gene health but they want a vulnerable person to be partnered with.

From this general list, data suggests that women weigh the Status Attributes more heavily than they do the physical components by a large margin. I think this could also be explained by a social-proofing mechanism involving women taking the desire of other women as a good proxy for finding out all the relevant data herself.

The actual metrics for each of these are going to vary between social groups but the general importance of each weighting would be the same across groups. So it is still equally as important for a woman from the middle class as a woman from the upper class to have a man that has the means to provide a certain lifestyle whereas the emprical measurement of that lifestyle may change (i.e. a $100k income may be the line for middle class while it may be considerably higher for the upper class). It is also important that women are basing this off of their perceived status which is not necessarily connected to reality. A women may demand the lifestyle or status that is generally accepted in the upper class because she believes she either belongs to this group or that she will at some point in the future (this is the common interaction that Kevin Samuels would have with women where he would have to remind them that their standards may be higher than their own value has the right to demand in this supposed "marketplace" of partner "value".

The actual metrics for each of these are going to vary between social groups but the general importance of each weighting would be the same across groups. So it is still equally as important for a woman from the middle class as a woman from the upper class to have a man that has the means to provide a certain lifestyle whereas the empirical measurement of that lifestyle may change (i.e. a $100k income may be the line for the middle class while it may be considerably higher for the upper class). It is also important that women are basing this on their perceived status which is not necessarily connected to reality. Women may demand the lifestyle or status that is generally accepted in the upper class because she believes she either belongs to this group or that she will at some point in the future (this is the common interaction that Kevin Samuels would have with women where he would have to remind them that their standards may be higher than their own value has the right to demand in this supposed "marketplace" of partner "value".

2022-09-20T21:44:52+00:00

What women think an HVM is: Hot and makes a lot of money and gives them stuff they like🤢

An HVM for men: Has lotz of sex with hot women 🤢

A real HVM 🥰:

https://i.imgur.com/0bN5fKv.jpg

h1shman · 2022-09-20T17:31:05+00:00

High “value” means means other people want it.

So it’s a man that women want and the man other men want to be like.

Bekiala · 2022-09-20T17:33:28+00:00

There are probably as many definitions of a high value male as there are people.

A high value male to me is someone who doesn't prey on women, doesn't buy into cultural expectations for men, values children, listens with curiosity and respect to others and takes responsibility for his own short comings.

Hmmmm . . . . I might have a different definition tomorrow.

Smitten_Squire · 2022-09-20T17:57:06+00:00

Two types of high value males

Is the traditional good looking seductive men... Tall, fit, lean, handsome face, good hair, good race for location.
Is the simpy rich man. He has a multi million dollar job, "security", vacstions, good home.

Rhubarb_Fair · 2022-09-20T19:23:20+00:00

"A high value man is a man with abundant sexual options".

Omg, no.

A high value man, to me as a woman is.... Clever, emotionally intelligent, driven, a natural leader, empathetic, kind, friendly, cares for and "protects" his family, actively moves towards responsibility, takes care of his health and fitness.... And thats just some of the basics.

wtknight · 2022-09-20T17:46:11+00:00

It’s what it means in the context of this sub. In other contexts it could mean a man who can hold down a high paying job or one who can maintain a relationship with a high value woman.

Diddy_1978 · 2022-09-20T19:22:50+00:00

Stable job, stable personality, intelligent, sociable enough, caring, couple/family oriented. I don’t give a single f**k regarding his sexual options.

Meihuajiancai · 2022-09-20T20:34:43+00:00

A male that a significant amount of women want to sleep with.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-09-20T22:32:40+00:00

A high value man is simply a man with a top tier SMV as determined by women. This is essentially true by definition.

Now, given that female nature tends to stay consistent when we are talking large numbers, it isn't that hard to say what kind of traits such a man is likely to have in any given cultural system. In addition, yes, in the right culture/social structures, a high value man will likely have an abundance of sexual options.

medlabunicorn · 2022-09-20T23:46:12+00:00

I don’t like that term. It’s one of the handfuls that FDS always uses, and it basically seems like ‘good tradcon man who can afford to be the sole breadwinner, and is a patient and loving husband and father.’ Nothing wrong with that, as far as it goes, but they act like that’s the only way to be a good man, and that’s never been what I wanted. It feels like they’re dissing my man, who is perfect for me.

lostwanderer28 · 2022-09-20T17:34:03+00:00

This seems to be a very difficult topic, because I heard different definitions throughout subtext.

Sometimes HVM is used as a synonym to fuckboi.

Sometimes HVM is used as a synonym to Chad.

Sometimes HVM is used for a man who is top on his careers, makes a lot of money, has a big network of people, is super fit, has a sexy body, radiates a masculine aura, wear expensive clothes and accessories, wears the best perfumes and so on and so forth.

For me HVM is the hypothetical top man. The best of the best. The creme de la creme. He is not realistic, he cannot exist, he is like the homo economicus in economics lol. A totally made up man not even reflecting one bit of reality. That is why I dislike the term HVM lol.

DisasterPeace7 · 2022-09-20T18:18:11+00:00

A man who possesses the characteristics that most women find attractive primarily on the surface level

RedditsOlderBrah · 2022-09-20T17:32:48+00:00

it's a context-dependent title bequeathed to men who have never heard the term in their life by people with self esteem issues.

Coolio_Street_Racer · 2022-09-20T17:47:58+00:00

You hit the nail on the head.

A man who posses attributes in which the supply is scarce and demand is high. The derivative of all value. The resulting effect is an abundance of sexual options.

What attribute makes a man HMW? Well that is a complex question as their are many different supply and demand dynamics at play dependent on your demographic. Although most boil down to looks, money, status. The question is what is good looking, wealthy, and high status as that is dependent on the demographic.

Women in the midwest will prefer different physical attributes than a women on the coasts. Cowboy/Countryman style versus Street/Refined style respectively.

Women in college view frat boys as high status versus Women out of college view socio-economic standing as status.

There aren't many rigid set of attributes that will make you desirable to all women. Other than Low Bf % within a healthy BMI, Above average Wealth and Height. Which almost anywhere in the world is of high demand and is scarce.

launcelot02 · 2022-09-20T17:45:13+00:00

High income, good looks, high social status.

FFTzzz · 2022-09-20T17:53:18+00:00

Patrick Bateman

BrummieAMN19 · 2022-09-20T17:57:59+00:00

High value is an attraction technique/action by PUAs you were/are meant to display on the girl when running game originally but the definition has been expanded upon and slightly bastardised from its true meaning to the point where it’s entirely subjective now.

DeJuanBallard · 2022-09-20T19:51:41+00:00

Since the term was coined by Kevin Samuel's, why don't you go watch the video where he explains what it is. Instead of asking a bunch of people who don't fucking know.

risdeveau · 2022-09-20T17:40:00+00:00

Good value for women. You’re projecting good value for men

FDS coined the term after all

ruboyuri · 2022-09-20T19:00:14+00:00

You mean “alpha”, which is a red pill term/concept. Check your androcentrism

HVM is an FDS term, and is thus a female, not male, standard of success and desirability

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AnUnstableNucleus · 2022-09-20T18:38:21+00:00

A man that other women want to date. How that is determined depends on context and environment.

BitsAndBobs304 · 2022-09-20T19:15:37+00:00

You cant disagree with the definition because it's a tautology

Jeditard · 2022-09-20T19:50:29+00:00

A high value man doesn't just have a lot of sexual options. They have a lot of options for being in a relationship too. A high value man makes a good amount of money & is self sufficient in that & all areas such as cooking & being able to take care of himself. A high value man can talk about his needs & emotions. They are real people with real goals in life who don't mess around with trivial sexual relations

Blakkktruths · 2022-09-20T20:16:59+00:00

It’s subjective. Your definition fits to me. Depends on who’s looking at the man.

ffandyy · 2022-09-20T20:19:47+00:00

Maybe because it’s very subjective

throwawayadvice102 · 2022-09-20T20:20:39+00:00

A high value man is a man that is alive; all men are "high value men". I urge you to consider why you feel it necessary to pass sociopathic value judgements that arbitrarily vary based on the whims of culture. A therapist might help you with this, seriously.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-09-20T20:34:49+00:00

Wait why are all these straight men trying to define HVM...

KirthWGersen · 2022-09-20T20:46:18+00:00

According to that definition, unemployed Jim from the pub is an HVM.

sparklyyblueberryy · 2022-09-20T20:50:48+00:00

Uhm but what options?

2022-09-20T21:03:26+00:00

No one on this thread besides OP understands what value means. Value is not the same as personal preference.

I might prefer to eat at my local deli over McDonald's, but McDonald's is objectively a more valuable business as measured by the number of people who prefer it.

The most desirable man is the most valuable. Period.

begrydgerer · 2022-09-20T21:18:05+00:00

11 feet tall, black muscular body but the face of Jason Mamoa, works as CEO of a multibillion company but is also a part time firefighter something something about sharing feelings and "communication", has "strong hands" and doesn't exist.

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-09-20T21:33:36+00:00

Men and women have different definitions, generally. As a woman, I would say a high value man is one who adds significant net value to his partner’s life. Same for a high value woman. And no, by “net value” I don’t mean monetary value, though being a financial drain is low value. There are many ways someone can add value to another person’s life. There are also many ways someone can drain it. Relationships involve give and take, but should be a net positive for both people.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-09-20T22:04:28+00:00

Someone who provides things to me that I personally value, or whatever the evaluator values if it isn't me. Whatever other people want isn't valuable or helpful, only the things that add actual value to that person's life.

throwaway164_3 · 2022-09-20T22:05:09+00:00

Any man who gets casual sex on tap with hot women

2022-09-20T22:05:43+00:00

Di caprio my lord my king my idol

iloveleo

AJWrecks · 2022-09-20T22:27:19+00:00

If you’re not

Fit Wealthy Tall Giant dick

Women will not find worth in you.

purplish_possum · 2022-09-20T22:27:46+00:00

The dude with the largest bounty on his head.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-09-20T22:47:18+00:00

A man who is desirable to a large percentage of women in the context of dating.

ThisTimeForRealYo · 2022-09-20T23:00:16+00:00

One who’s content with life and is a good person. That’s who strife to be.

midwesternMD · 2022-09-20T23:00:40+00:00

Depends on the metric. If the metric is sexual, then I would agree, having options defines one’s values.

If the metric is high value to society, that might look different.

Just as it would if it were high value from a family standpoint.

Fiestygirl000 · 2022-09-20T23:06:53+00:00

Physically- Tall, attractive , high income,

Characteristic- loyal, strong, humble, respectful

gastongang · 2022-09-20T23:45:48+00:00

A HVM is physically and spiritually a chad, the closest equivalent I can think of would be Dr. Livesey from the Russian animated treasure Island

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgKK0YRQyMQ

InfamousBake1859 · 2022-09-21T00:11:41+00:00

High value can means different things for everyone.

I’m pretty basic lol, for me:

Compatibility> Good personality > career > education >money > looks >>>> their dick

mcove97 · 2022-09-21T01:11:23+00:00

In my view, it's the qualities you value the most in a partner. There are some traits most of us value in a partner such as kindness and good looks for instance, but people also have different individual values. That's why I think it's moot to describe what all men or women deem as a high value man.

For instance, for me, an example of what I deem to be a high value man is an intellectual and bright guy who is childfree and vegan. Obviously that's not what everyone else deems as a high value man.

For me, a high value man isn't necessarily 6 feet tall, wealthy or fit and handsome, as those aren't the things I personally value the most, but that's what a lot of people, especially here, will call a high value man, and as a very general statement that has some truth and is applicable to a large amount of people, but it doesn't consider what qualities individual women, such as myself, value in men.

staggerlee718 · 2022-09-21T01:16:58+00:00

Abundance of sexual options is a side effect of being a high status guy. It's just icing on the cake.

A high status or high value as you describe it is a man who first and foremost loves and adores himself and believes he is more than good enough. This one criteria already eliminates 90% of men on the planet from being high value.

A high value man has to have power and confidence. Power comes in many shapes and forms. A policeman or a fireman has power and authority. A billionaires wealth is power. A pro athlete has a lot of power and social proof. A boss has power in his company. A guy who defies society and does whatever the heck he wants and breaks the rules is also powerful.

These types of men get women. The secretary fucks get boss. The cheerleader bangs the athlete under the bleachers. The groupie lines up to suck Mick Jaggers dick backstage.

Why are women attracted to men with power, authority and confidence? Because women seek security. The same way a man seeks a fertile woman and is turned on beyond belief by a pair of juicy breasts, a woman seeks a powerful man who can makes her feel safe and protected and is turned on beyond belief by his authority and confidence.

The more interesting question you may want to ask is, how I as a man can get there.

Historical-System972 · 2022-09-21T01:25:39+00:00

That is a shoddy definition of a HMV at best - I mean, by that logic any man with money is automatically a HMV.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2022-09-21T01:43:13+00:00

A high value male is one that has an abundance of casual sexual options.

Fixed it for you.

First, we really need to examine these options. Casual sex, by and large, is simply not had much if at all by people on average. Whatever people are saying about 'average guys get laid just fine' are probably confusing relationships with casual sex.

This graph is a crude representation of why most men aren't having much casual sex (warning, extrapolation that gibes with my personal experience follows):

https://miro.medium.com/max/4800/1*iC0UjKDxFViE3XZuk6MMUw.jpeg

In order for a man to reliably match with a woman in the 20th percentile, he has to be in the...70-75th percentile. Remember, 'match' doesn't mean get laid. It just means match. I hate to invoke 80/20 rule (it's more like 50-60/20 but whatever)...

...point being, an abundance of sexual options probably starts at having a shot of casual sex with 20 percent of women, even if they are the bottom 20 percent.

Now let's scale up to 90th percentile male...he can get around the 40th percentile.

Let's scale up to the 95th percentile...this is where the man can get a woman above average (60-70th percentile) for casual sex.

Does this mean that only men at the 70th percentile or above (or who have these options) are high value men?

FUCK NO.

By its own 'sex is everything' terms, the schlub who convinces a 9 to 'settle down' for his 'beta bucks' and give him 2.5 kids TKOs the 'stud' who has 5 baby mamas who are all 4's.

womandatory · 2022-09-21T01:45:50+00:00

That’s what men think is HV, and what women think is a loser fuckboy. Women think a HV man is very different indeed. This is why we have a problem in this sub.

Women’s idea of a HV man is one who takes care of his appearance and constantly works at improving himself. He doesn’t spend hours moaning and complaining he is 5’8”, he works out and gets a good education and learns a new language instead. He doesn’t whine like a child about going bald, he shaves his head and lifts, and invests in his career, and maintains a good relationship with his family and friends.

High value men are not always over 6’ and have a 6 figure income, but most of them (absent a medical condition) have a 6 pack of abs, because that is one of the easiest things to change about yourself. High value men accept the things they can’t change, invest time and effort in enhancing the positive attributes they have, and work hard at improving the things they can control. They also don’t fuck around.

Competitive-Solid-63 · 2022-09-21T01:59:04+00:00

I’m new to this whole discussion, but it’s fascinating to me.

Context: I’m 48 years old. I’ve been married for nearly 20 years. My wife was objectively pretty, great body, etc. when I met her. (She still is.) She has her Masters in counseling. By most any standards a catch.

Here’s the thing, though: looks wise, at the time I was maybe a 7-8/10. I’m 5’11” had a pretty average body, and I certainly wasn’t making anywhere near $100k at the time. I lived in a shitty apartment and drove a not great car. Oh, and my dick is just average size.

I pretty much checked none of those boxes. Am I an outlier who just lucked out? Have things changed that drastically over the last 20 years, or is this just a bunch of people feeling sorry for themselves? Serious question.

razorfloss · 2022-09-21T05:45:09+00:00

Basically a hvm is a man who has his shit together, makes decent money, is in reasonable shape, can hold a conversation and has a decent face. Alot people focus on the money aspect but money isn't everything. Money just enhances what you already got as money alone a hvm doesn't make.

lonelyredheadgirl · 2022-09-21T08:02:21+00:00

Intelligent, kind, moderately ambitious/passionate, shows some upward mobility, 5’8-6’1, decent in shape, abs are not necessary. Good skin, good hair, mostly of them attainable things.

_Woodrow_ · 2022-09-21T11:13:05+00:00

I would say the answer varies depending on what the woman values in a partner

Title	What is a "high value" male?
Author	Reasonable-Software2
Upvotes	42
Comments	250
Date	September 20, 2022 5:23 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/xjetk2/what_is_a_high_value_male/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-is-a-high-value-male.1132322 https://theredarchive.com/post/1132322

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iloveleo