[CMV] It’s unwise for women to invest in romantic relationships with men if they aren’t valuable to men past age 30.

Cimorene86 · 2021-09-19T19:50:40+00:00

This should really say:

It’s unwise for women to invest in romantic relationships with men if the man in question doesn't believe his partner is valuable past age 30.

Because that's really what this comes down to.

yotatruk · 2021-09-20T12:27:57+00:00

Life does not stop past 30. People have relationships for all kinds of reasons, at all ages, not just making for babies. I have an uncle that married in his 70s to a lady he knew most of his life. It was a second marriage for both of them, and they were both widowers. Side note they both signed a prenup so their respective kids got the inheritance when they died. Another side note you don't have to get married to have a relationship at any age either. Check out the std rates in seniors and in nursing homes.

wtknight · 2021-09-19T21:39:12+00:00

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Perseus_the_Bold · 2021-09-19T23:30:51+00:00

Your entire outlook hinges on the assumption that a woman will stop being loved and valued by the man who chose her once she reaches the age of 30.

There is a point in time when a woman becomes a man's family. Especially if she has his kids. Are women really going to base such an important life decision on the hearsay of internet anecdotes?

The prudent thing to do is to invest in a job and also only commit and invest yourselves in men who are worth your commitment. If you find that you cannot distinguish between a man that is good for you and a man who will betray you then fall back on your job. Invest on a fall back plan before investing on a man. It's just the smart thing to do even if the man you choose turns out to be the one, that way your fallback plan becomes a bonus instead of plan B.

wtknight · 2021-09-19T21:58:31+00:00

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wtknight · 2021-09-19T19:48:21+00:00

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wtknight · 2021-09-19T22:36:55+00:00

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throwaway_randdo · 2021-09-20T08:02:59+00:00

TL;DR being old sucks for both men and women IMO. See below for my TED talk on how all accomplishments were meaningless after 26 (for me, as a guy).

As a guy, I think the red pill / manosphere idea that older men are more valuable than older women is a cope. I’ve seen 30-yo women say that they’ll only date men under 30 bc men their own age are stuck in their ways, so it works both ways. Anecdotally, the handful of age gap relationship straight couples I know personally are actually where the woman is older than the guy (by 8-10 years). In some cases, these relationships have resulted in marriage and even kids. These guys are actually pretty stereotypically macho, too (eg military and/or conservative), and have good jobs. Def not the soyjak IRL types.

As others said, you can do both in your 20s. Also as others said, there’s a ton of ageism in the workplace, too.

You can decide not to invest in guys, but don’t let red pill ideology drive your decision. I don’t know a ton of ppl of any age IRL who subscribe to it. And the vast majority of married men do not leave their wives for a younger woman. I’ve seen this happen with some wealthy family acquaintances (like doctors), after their kids were grown, and it never turned out well anyway.

As others said, saying you won’t invest in relationships in your 20s is like saying you won’t hang out or party with your friends in your 20s. That’s your decision to make, but your 20s won’t come back.

Relationships of all kinds (including friendships) get harder after 30, for both men and women, just IMO.

The idea that male value increases indefinitely with age is bullshit IMO, bc most guys wouldn’t live like Leo DiCaprio even if they could.

I’m a guy and I gave up on everything at 26, including travel, socializing, relationships and career advancement. Was in the best shape of my life at 39 and couldn’t enjoy it. Got the job of my dreams at 40 (in an industry rife with ageism where the average age is 30) but don’t even care. Recently (at 43) got recruited by a company others would kill to work at, and I’m not even excited.

Def can’t speak for most other guys, but my observation is that guys aren’t exactly trading their wives in for younger models en masse. I’ve been single a long time, and even tho women way younger than me have hit on me every now and then, I never let it go anywhere bc I felt like a grandpa since 35, despite the fact some ppl were still clocking me as a 25-year old at that point. At 43, some ppl still guess my age at anywhere from 25-35, but again I couldn’t care less.

So not every guy delusionally thinks of his own value as increasing indefinitely. My career value has never been higher, but idgaf about that tbh. No amount of career success can make you even one day younger or make up for the lost opportunities of youth.

But maybe I’m too old and my opinion is irrelevant. To balance things out, I know men and women aged 24-29 who already feel old and are already starting to have regrets. When I was that age I knew dudes who were 21 and already felt old. Looking back, I wish I had invested more in relationships of all kinds, but I was too busy having an extended quarter life crisis.

TheElusivePeacock · 2021-09-21T00:33:43+00:00

I’m not a person who would personally invest in marriage, but for the women I know who have, Honestly invested in both. Invested in their careers, and relationships with men they thought had value and potential. They didn’t invest with men who think like this however. You have to remember that most men who say this stuff, are never going to be invested in by a woman, in any way. It’s their cope. Do you personally know any woman who turned 30 and stopped getting hit on??? I know I don’t. Hell I went to dinner and drinks with my very married 47 year old friend and men were hitting on her left and right. The men who say this shit are not the men you invest a relationship in. They are the ones trying to scare a 22 year old hottie into settling with an ugly man otherwise she’ll “die alone.” Like dying alone isn’t far more preferable than a life with a bitter angry ugly man. You can invest in both if you want both. I’ve seen it with my own eyes with friends of mine. You don’t invest in men like this. But again, no one does.

BecretAlbatross · 2021-09-19T21:50:07+00:00

If men want a family then women have value as a long term partner and a mother. If a guy doesn't want kids though I'm not gonna lie, no logical reason to invest in him.

sublimemongrel · 2021-09-19T20:03:01+00:00

You can do both, ie invest and put effort into a career and invest and put effort into a relationship at the same time when you are in your 20s. I would not advise having kids young or making major career sacrifices for the sake of your relationship alone but you nevertheless can do both at the same time.

Only certain men believe women have no value after they turn 30, don’t listen to manospherians and assume they speak for all men.

It’s a perfectly normal life timeline to pursue a career and a LTR while young and in a lot of cases that LTR will end up being your life partner, with marriage and kids if you so choose. Like that’s the trajectory of most of the women in my middle to UMC demographic.

Neptune-Jr · 2021-09-19T23:12:45+00:00

Red Pill beliefs are so ridiculous lol.

cvslengthbucketlist · 2021-09-19T20:23:10+00:00

That's like saying it's unwise for people to invest in friendships and hanging out/partying with friends in their 20s because you'll lose touch with a lot of your friends anyway so you should be focusing on your career 100% to the detriment of everything else.

Dating isn't just "investing in men you might break up with," it's gaining valuable experience on how to deal with issues that arise in an intimate relationships and learning how to compromise and problem-solve with someone regularly and over a sustained period of time. Those are social skills that you can't just decide you want to pick up past the age of 30 just as quickly as if you were younger.

If, to men, the passage of time depreciates women’s value but, to employers, it renders them more valuable because they have more experience/skill/knowledge

It's more of a bell curve than a continuously increasing slope. Remember, age discrimination exists in many industries. Also as a woman even if you're ambitious and don't have your own family there's the perception that older women won't have the desire or the stamina to work long hours. Not to mention that often employers would rather underpay younger workers and train them than hire older experienced ones demanding a higher salary because they have dependents or a higher standard of living to support.

wtknight · 2021-09-19T19:57:31+00:00

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figosnypes · 2021-09-20T04:57:57+00:00

Honestly, switch the genders and this is exactly how I feel as a man.

I think the idea that men find women undesirable past the age of 30 is completely false and I don't know how anyone still believes that. However, I do often feel that from a purely sexual attraction standpoint, women only value men under 30 and mostly under 26. And I actually believe that it's women projecting when they assume that men are so fixated on young women. Basically, they know that men value them primarily for their sex appeal and because they themselves only find men sexually appealing when they're young, they assume that implies men only value them when they're young.

Playful_Art_5364 · 2021-09-20T02:20:18+00:00

The premise itself is wrong. Many many many men will marry women of all ages. Most women are married late 20s to mid 30s

EdwardCircumcizehand · 2021-09-19T23:30:48+00:00

Because generally married men dont leave their wives at 30

Generally most marriages have ups and downs but they work out for the better most of the time and until death do they part. Divorces are at a massive low - the delta in marriages comes from how many people are choosing it at all

Whether it’s because it’s harder or this or that is regardless of the fact that the OP is deluded in her reasoning.

It is not good to develop a career because men will toss you like trash past 30 - you become less desirable as a first date but you will still be desirable to most men. It is good to develop a career because it is your way to advance yourself and make something of yourself. It is to not define yourself by your marriage but it should also be warned against in identifying with your career - to be consumed by work is a terrible plague in Asia and should be a warning against foolishness

Balance2BBetter · 2021-09-20T01:32:45+00:00

I don’t understand where this idea that women don’t have value after 30 comes from. It just seems like a fringe mentality among very extreme, lonely guys who want to pick on women in order to make themselves feel better. “Reject them before the reject you” kinda thing. Please don’t think that we’re all like this OP. I promise you there are many men out there who aren’t. It feels this way online because the kinds of guys who think this way are extremely online while those that don’t are less so. I have never, in any capacity, met an actual guy irl who has this mentality.

And, given that many men do value women as people and don’t see them as disposable after age 30, it’s wise to get into romantic relationships at any time in your life if you want to establish companionship and self-actualization. Don’t let these incels convince you to not pursue love.

Key-Progress-8873 · 2021-09-19T20:21:06+00:00

Step 1. Take an RP statement

Step 2. Oversimplify it to the point of it becoming a caricature, then present it as the opinion all RP users hold.

Step 3. Ask RP users why they have such retarded opinions.

For example, take "Women's SMV generally peaks in their 20s and tends to go down through their 30s, with RMV following a different dynamic" and turn that into "Women's SMV suddenly becomes 0 after 30, so why bother ever with an LTR, go sleep with college girls since that's obviously what RP men want"

Behold, every single thread on this sub at this point.

Also, careers do hold exactly 0 impact to SMV and by the way this is also an opinion some female users on this sub hold to a high extent, so I fail to see how it's controversial.

Now, RMV that's a different story, and I don't think anyone would deny that a pre-existing career can't enhance a relationship to an extent. Still, it's nowhere near as important as it is in men, where career will always be a top 3 concern in terms of RMV.

Mrbigthickbenis · 2021-09-20T05:43:01+00:00

Well - I had a neighbor that was married at 30 and she has 2 daughters and is still married.

And an Aunt that was married at 42 I think, and she's been married for 13 years now. They're better together than apart, I think.

It's also stupid to assume there is the same value in a career as in a relationship/family. If you get 10x the value out of the latter then more of a time commitment makes sense.

reconfinement_acc · 2021-09-19T20:55:23+00:00

Men will pay half on everything, a prenup must be signed before marriage, but refuses to do half of the housework.

https://www.bls.gov/tus/charts/household.htm#:~:text=On%20an%20average%20day%2C%2022,are%20from%20the%202015%20survey).

TheJim66 · 2021-09-19T19:45:18+00:00

No one said that women aren't valuable past 30.They are saying they aren't desirable to START a relationship with once they are past thirty.

Also, go ahead and chase that career. But we all know it won't actually make the women happy

Liberal_On_Guns · 2021-09-20T00:05:30+00:00

Woah woah woah. I do not think women aren't hot past 30. I have met plenty of women over 30 that are still very attractive. And honestly if I were looking to marry someone, I wouldn't be looking for 9s and 10s anyway. In fact, I still think older chicks can be hot.

Is she naturally going to be less attractive than her 20 y/o self? Most likely. But that doesn't mean she can't still be bangin'. The problem with investing in single women over 30 has little to do with her appearance in my view. Their "danger zone" status isn't looks-based.

Traditional_Job2467 · 2021-09-20T05:35:25+00:00

Despite there is studies of problems birth defects when age applies later in life

Wai-Sing · 2021-09-20T09:44:30+00:00

my 60 year old mom is very valuable to my dad even throughout her 30s

miketrance · 2021-09-19T21:17:57+00:00

Your whole initial assumption is incorrect. RANDOM women are less desirable in their 30's than they were in their 20's but your wife's value goes up with the longer you've been together if you've invested in and created a healthy relationship.

I'm much higher status now than I was in my 20's when my wife and I got together and could attract plenty of beautiful early 20's women. There's no contest between them and the woman who built this life with me though. I wouldn't think of "trading in" someone who's shown me they have my back time and time again. That wouldn't be in my best interest, nor would it be in the best interest of my children.

Now lets say my wife died. Who would I date? For sake of argument we can assume that a decently successful man will have women his own age, and women at least 10 years younger than himself interested in him because many women prefer older and more accomplished men. Because single guys in their 30's have a larger dating pool doesn't say a whole lot for men who are happily married by then.

I'm sure your response will be something to do with successful men cheating or some such thing, totally ignoring all the women who cheat on their husbands with pretty much the same frequency.

abaxeron · 2021-09-20T00:57:56+00:00

pursuing their careers and building wealth

Women don't build wealth. The biggest predictor of a woman living in poverty is not having a husband, regardless of children (figure 3). Contrary to FDS mantras, difference between divorced and never married women is within the margin of error. This is after 30 years of outpacing men in higher education.

If, to men, the passage of time depreciates women’s value but, to employers, it renders them more valuable because they have more experience/skill/knowledge,

Employers had to have a gun held to their heads by the state to force them to hire women. Employers are not stupid.

men who won’t find them hot after having kids and who will yearn to leave them and sleep with college girls?

The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place.

Past benefit provided by the male does not provide for continued or future association.

Past benefit provided by the female CAN provide for continued or future association.

relish5k · 2021-09-19T22:14:51+00:00

The high-quality men who will love and cherish their wives in her 30s, 40s and for the rest of their lives together get snatched up early. Get the pickings while the pickings are good girl

Barely-moral · 2021-09-20T01:45:28+00:00

Men don't follow briffault's law. Past benefits provided hold value even if there is no more of the same benefits in the future. A woman that comes to me at her 30s has lost most of her value. A woman that gave me her 20s gave me a lot of benefit so I will not be inclined to leave her.

Fudstersecured · 2021-09-19T19:51:39+00:00

As with everything else in life, you pay your money and take your chances.

BraveNewNight · 2021-09-20T07:26:56+00:00

If women are no longer valuable as partners to men past 30

That is a bit of a gross simplification, but I assume you mean the rapid degradation of SMV of women during their 30s.

Define "valuable".

Pursuing a career, gaining expertise, getting certifications and adding to one’s resume, and building wealth

None of this makes you valuable for a male partner.

If, to men, the passage of time depreciates women’s value but, to employers, it renders them more valuable because they have more experience/skill/knowledge, then investing in a career is a wiser and more logical choice for women than investing in relationships with men is.

This is accurate, but omits much of the value proposition for the relationship from the man's perspective. In exchange for time invested into the relationship up to the (to be fair more middle of 30s than 30) point of the woman hitting her wall, in exchange for giving birth to children, being a loving, faithful wife and nurturing aforementioned children, the man will have reason to stay with the woman other than her looks, now that he is hitting the high point of his life (30-55). Men value loyalty and merit. You, as the mother of his children, have an advantage no other woman can hope to approach, after 10 years of marriage.

How is it prudent to spend time they could be spending pursuing their careers and building wealth, instead, doing housework and baby-making for men who won’t find them hot after having kids and who will yearn to leave them and sleep with college girls?

The idea is that, if you did indeed do all of this instead of a career, the man will remember and be willing (and in some cases forced due to legislation) to provide and care for you. There's also genuine love and respect, but that's not exactly a guarantee. Keep in mind this is literally how our society worked for thousands of years, and for the most part, it worked out and led to lifetime partnerships.

FinancialThanks1 · 2021-09-20T11:09:42+00:00

Most women will be happier on their 40th birthday if they spent the last 20 years with their relationship and family as their main focus as opposed to their career.

Mark_Freed · 2021-09-20T06:04:09+00:00

The way I understand it, red pill men believe women have value to give even past age 30. They can be great partners, mothers, all the shared memories/experiences in their 20s lay the foundation for the girl offering more value to the man compared to any fresh 20-year-old girl who only offers herself as a sexual object.

Red pill men seem to believe women become less feminine as they grow older, less malleable, more jaded. They are also jealous that other men got to enjoy her beauty and body when she was younger. I am talking about red-pilled men who want to marry here. The PUA crowd only wants short lays and MGTOW are aiming to be ascetics lol.

So coming to your claim, it's possible for a woman to invest in a romantic relationship with a red-pilled man if she believes that he has enough self-control/morals to not cheat on her for physical pleasure. We can't control feelings, it does not make sense for women to get angry at men for lusting after college girls, what matters more is his actions. Will he leave them and sleep with college girls? Will he honestly talk to her about feeling unloved? libido mismatch? What matters more to him? 10 mins of pleasure or his family, kids, a reliable wife?

As long as they both work on the relationship no other girl can compete with her on anything else. Some girls might be open to polyamory and even turning a blind eye to her husband just having sex on the side... it all depends on what they both want.

It is also possible that due to the trust, respect, and shared experiences between the two of them, they find each other intensely attractive even in old age. This is a blue pill idea but I think it's possible for these ideas to coexist with the red pill idea that a women's physical attractiveness decays quite rapidly with age. Sexual attractiveness is more complicated than just physical attractiveness, stuff that people say can be a huge turn-off to both genders.. less so for men but still.

The way you framed the red pill idea, women are only valued for sex. It is possible to value your partner for many things they offer to you and have a great relationship even if one aspect degrades.

We all depend on something, be it family, a partner, a job, money, etc. I think it is better to invest in relationships rather than money. I know rich people who have such cold relationships with their families. There are people who have families but still focus their energies on building wealth because they feel they can only trust/rely on that. It never ends well with them, the quality of life deteriorates fast since humans are social animals and a loving partner is one of the best goals to aim for.

cholmanattom · 2021-09-20T10:11:03+00:00

I met my gf in our late teen and I don't plan to leave her anytime soon even we would passed a certain age. Not everybody would be like that, especially in real life. Men could leave women in their 30s and vise versa.

For the RP talks about women in their 30s, it's only about manipulative people of both genders. I heard that people in a big city like NYC frequently be like that. For me, I chose to stay sane and not play their games.

gimpgirl555 · 2021-09-19T20:02:18+00:00

You use your 20s to build a life together. Sure the guy will still fuck younger women, but he won't leave you.

questionasker012 · 2021-09-19T19:53:23+00:00

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tameimpalea · 2021-09-20T00:33:54+00:00

Absolutely true.

moosemc · 2021-09-20T01:53:09+00:00

Yes. Do that.

Do what everybody does anyway.

Counter_Proposition · 2021-09-20T17:25:06+00:00

It's most prudent to invest in yourself first, then find and secure a partner to have children before you're too old to do so, if you want them. For women this means by 30, for men this means by 50.

pfmarshallx · 2021-09-24T19:18:47+00:00

You’re so wrong. You fail to realize that when we say women are less valuable past 30, we mean in context of being picked to be married, not as someone we are already married to. We view you as less and less valuable to start a relationship with precisely because we aren’t naive, we understand women like everything else ages. But it’s where to started off that counts. Women are like cars, we know the best cars will always depreciate from the start of possession and lose x value. But the difference is a brand new car that only you “own” vs a used or used up one. Get it now?

wtknight · 2021-09-19T21:52:34+00:00

Women can still look good as they get older. If a man develops an emotional bond to his wife or partner, it doesn't mean that he's not still attracted to her, doesn't want to make love to her, and doesn't want to do nice things for her anymore just because he thinks she looked more attractive in her 20s. I'm not as attractive as I was when I was younger, either, and mature men still find their partners attractive as they age as long as they don't completely let themselves go (some do even then).

Thinking that men only like one type of women is female solipsism, since women usually have strong preferences for one type of guy. Men are attracted to many types, and that includes older women too. Just look at how many young guys search out MILF porn. I mean, I'm in my 40s and I even find some other women in their 40s attractive besides my wife and not just women in their 20s. Preferences do not mean exclusive attractiveness for men.

cunningcaring · 2021-09-19T23:41:57+00:00

There is no wall. Women are valuable to me forever.

TryLambda · 2021-09-19T21:34:17+00:00

A career won't give you a family, most career women I know are plain miserable cos they chose career over family, and the reasons why is they missed out on having kids, or experience what a healthy family unit is like. Biology will always find a way to make women want to have babies, its hard wired in them.

reconfinement_acc · 2021-09-19T21:09:27+00:00

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TheBookOfSeil · 2021-09-19T21:34:56+00:00

How exactly would a woman know she isn't valuable to men past 30, or at any age? Women also make the same mistake of thinking that they're more attractive than they actually are, too.

Also, I don't think it's a good idea in general to give up. People can almost always find someone if they're looking. They just have to be a bit more realistic about what they're looking for. I imagine that most average or below average people aren't going to find someone who is highly above average, for example, but they can find someone around their level.

Stevefr0mYellowstone · 2021-09-19T21:46:41+00:00

You've built yourself quite the strawman. You also have a fundamental misunderstanding that being alone, having no relationship, having no kids, etc... will make one happy. Especially for women. Instead of throwing out strawman arguments I'd suggest spending more time learning about how all human beings aren't a mindless, emotionless monolith that have no interest in continuing on the species.

TodTheRod01 · 2021-09-19T23:11:51+00:00

You are misunderstanding somethings

If you've coupled/married before thirty and popped kids out before 35 and continue being a good mom and wife...you havent lost your worth...

You lose your worth according to some train of thought if you havent done any of those things by 35 or whatever age...

See the differencd

AidsVictim · 2021-09-19T21:33:09+00:00

If women are no longer valuable as partners to men past 30, how is it prudent to spend their 20s investing in and committing to men? How is it prudent to spend time they could be spending pursuing their careers and building wealth, instead, doing housework and baby-making for men who won’t find them hot after having kids and who will yearn to leave them and sleep with college girls?

The vast majority of men in happy stable relationships do not leave their wives to fuck younger women. Most women can build careers and have serious relationships.

Pursuing a career, gaining expertise, getting certifications and adding to one’s resume, and building wealth are all investments that pay dividends for decades. Sure, you may lose a particular job, but you can apply your increased expertise and skill and be an even better candidate for the next employer. Likewise, in most cases, starting a business brings commensurate security.

Then do that. Again most women can do both and you're turning this into an either or situation. Most professional careers also have maternity leave as well.

It's also worth considering that your 20's are the best time (especially for women) to look for a long term partner, especially if you want children. I won't say you can't find high quality men in your 30's but if you're "average" you're going to have a tough time finding quality men.

Everything has an opportunity cost - if you for some reason believe you need to prioritize your career to the exclusion of LTR or having children then you're missing out on the best your partner pool is ever going to be.

If, to men, the passage of time depreciates women’s value but, to employers, it renders them more valuable because they have more experience/skill/knowledge, then investing in a career is a wiser and more logical choice for women than investing in relationships with men is.

No one can tell you what is going to make you happy, but it's my observation that very few people are happy or fulfilled without a family but a sterling corporate career, while the opposite is often true.

I think you're starting with some bad assumptions because you have trust issues with men and have internalized (or are externalizing it onto) some RP strawman.

Epmt · 2021-09-20T11:11:04+00:00

The issue that man have with these woman is that they spend their 20s get railed by chad , but once they are no longer at their peak they need to settle for the betas . If a woman doesn't want me in her 20s why would I want her in her 30s?

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-09-20T14:57:00+00:00

Depends on the man and what each person wants out of a relationship and it depends on what the woman was doing in her teens and twenties, like for example if a woman spends the majority of her teens and college years getting banged out by the guy she's really attracted to whether it be athletes, the musicians, the bad boys or whoever and then she finds the nice kind of what we would call beta male, around the time that she's 26 or 27 years old and then she gets married, that's actually a worse investment for him and a good one for her.

It just depends on how you play your cards, a woman who's a 18-24 attractive low body count if not outright virgin can pretty much write her on ticket on The Dating Market in which case she can vet for the best potential partner wall still going to college and doing all that shit anyways, so it's up to y'all to cash in on that golden ticket, nobody's saying women lose all of value after 30 but it's not their Peak value anymore , so in this instance if you want to be married and have kids and all that stuff, and cash in on the absolute best options that's the way to do it, if you give the right guy your best years on this other shit can usually just be avoided

bbcdingdong23 · 2021-09-19T22:59:48+00:00

I dont think either gender should be dependent on each other too much. Sure you're in a relationship but you do need an identity seperate from you partner. You are correct and one can do both if they so desire.

But i don't think every man lose interest in their wives after childbirth. Or their value depreciates in our eyes. Generalization of men here is wrong. However individual identity is imperative in surviving modern age. There should be a balance between work, family, dependency and individuality of the people involved in a relationship.

ARGUS_99 · 2021-09-20T00:46:44+00:00

If women want to have a healthy family and relationships, then at the very least they should consider what men deem valuable.

a logical man wont see the mother of his kids as useless if she is putting in the work at raising his kids.

and its not that women are just not valuable past 30, its just that they are not as valuable as they were in their 20s since youth, looks and fetility are very important to most men.

You can pursue your career and focus on that, but unless you plan to die alone and live by yourself for the rest of your life. You should still focus on rlps, as both men and women are not equipped to spend the rest of their lives alone.

The sooner men see women as more than just looks and sex, and the sooner women see men as more than just a resource tool, the better outcomes both genders can expect

hopeless_romantic19 · 2021-09-20T02:17:43+00:00

Ageism exists in the workplace too. I feel the older you are the harder it is to get a job. Also, many jobs these days pay shit and don't fully cover your costs. Starting a family and dating and creating familial ties I would argue are a tale as old as time and provide certain benefits and security that the markets don't, At the end of a long week your coworkers aren't gonna be there for you like your children, husband, and friends are. There's also a lot of drama and stress people undergo in the workplace. I think prioritizing the working world is precarious in it's own way and may even be more stressful than being a stay at home mom. I think there is a lot of power in interdependence and not just independence.

Also, your post insinuates that all men will leave a women after 30 which isn't the case at all. Many men stick with their wives and find them hot and attractive into their older age. A lot of relationships aren't just based on looks but rather shared values, interests and personalities that others think are hot. I've always though my mom is super attractive as she's aged. She has a nice style, is always super in shape, and has a nice face shape. My Dad seems to be attracted her at every age.

I would argue that it IS harder to date as a women the older you get. that's probably where the "not as desirabale" after 30 discourse comes from. I think EVERYONE male and female definitely look better under 25. It's just biology and you can't deny that. Women slowly age of fertility the older they get and this makes them biologically less attractive to future partners. Age, stress, and the trials of life will make most people look more beaten down and unattractive the older they get.

Starcraft_III · 2021-09-20T02:53:33+00:00

I don't think anyone's position is that 'women are no longer valuable as partners past 30'. Everybody gets less attractive when the effects of age kick in, people say as a rule of thumb that for women this starts around 30 and for men it starts later. I think this is probably true, at least its represented in our popular culture, actors win oscars at an older age and actresses win oscars at a younger age, etc. Obviously this isn't true for everybody, some people lose weight or learn to dress and increase their attractiveness even while they're aging. Of course being a valuable partner isn't just about attractiveness, unless you're talking about a partner for a one-night stand.

pubgmisc · 2021-09-20T03:54:26+00:00

Telling a man you have a career, money, is like a man telling you "ohh yeah, you see my jordan shoe collection hmm wanna date?" = its not an attraction metric. + competing with males in the 'career' (who are built to suffer, and their mate selection depends on their performance), you will lose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxFUWreI7BA&ab\_channel=FreshandFit

NameGiver0 · 2021-09-20T04:13:30+00:00

sinisterforces · 2021-09-20T05:09:12+00:00

Oh my god, this proves the issue with the purple pill or milky/cherry pick version of red pill theory. He won’t be able to have an opinion past 30 anyway and the woman doesn’t work but is payed by him 😎 No but on a serious note…

Why should she? Because the purpose of life is to reproduce in your late teens, 20s and early 30s, and then to raise those children. You are married, and regardless if the man is lusting for younger women (aka instinct to spread his genes more) he also wants to stay (instinct to make the genes he has spread into this world stay alive) and provide. A woman is preferably married and marriage is for life. Building wealth or studying or whatnot a woman can do when children are older.

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-09-20T05:23:44+00:00

I think the first thing is, what do you mean by "if they aren't valuable to men past age 30?"

AmbitiousHornet · 2021-09-20T08:23:32+00:00

This could also say: Careers are more important than having a relationship/marriage/kids.Corporations will love this.

Here's where we're going with all of this. The divorce rates increases and the marriage rate decreases. The main population replacements will be raised by single mothers. The birth rate will drastically be reduced. Gradually through the attrition of some of the largest generations, the population will decline dramatically, a lot of skills and experience will be lost, and America will become a third-world country.

ffandyy · 2021-09-20T12:22:01+00:00

Since when are women not valuable after 30?

AtomicMGTOW · 2021-09-20T16:23:53+00:00

Well I think you're missing the whole point of investing.

By investing early, he gets the benefit of her youth Beauty and fertility. When a woman decides inner thirties that she wants to get married (invested) the man does not get the benefit of her youth Beauty and fertility... At its peak anyway.

By investing early she has the chance to have more influence over the building of their family instead of just joining late in the game when we're already set up an independent. If he's got a house and she's got a house who sells their house to move into the other person's house?

Furthermore by investing early she increases the chance of having healthy children with a lower risk of birth defects than when she's past 30.

And further to that if her husband does find her unattractive after 30 she can divorce and half of everything is hers even if she was a stay-at-home mom.

For average people with average jobs and average houses and average families, we can dispense with this idea that she married him and then divorced him and then took half of HIS stuff.

whatever they have they built together and therefore she is entitled to her half even if she was a stay-at-home mom because her contributions will be counted as half and should be counted as half.

Again in the situation of the stay-at-home mom, she will receive half of the assets, it is overwhelmingly likely that she will have the children and therefore receive child support, and she will also receive the benefit of spousal support.

At that point for the average person she might not be able to go out and buy a house that's equivalent to the one that they just sold. So her lifestyle will change when it comes to the type of shelter she can afford. But no judge in the world allows the woman to leave with nothing to go die in the streets after the contribution that she made.

Either way a woman chooses - career versus family life, she wins. Or at least doesn't lose. The course understand that she made a very significant investment and contribution and deserves to benefit from it.

Modern women can complain about how difficult a choice it is to make between family life and career. But she has the benefit of making that choice. And she has the benefit of making that choice early on.

The vast majority of men do not have that option. We have to work. Whether we're high earners or average earners it doesn't matter. We have to work. There would be very very few average or high earning women that would support a man to stay home with the children.

Making choices is always difficult because there is a sacrifice to be made at the exact same time. Complaining about it later is stupid or disingenuous.

There are plenty of career women that complain about having never a family. And I suspect there are a fair amount of women that would complain about forsaking a career for the family.

However family is for life. And whether she depends on her man or "the man" in the corporate environment, she's still somewhat dependent on someone. Just as the husband is dependent on his work/paycheck.

Choices are made. Regretting them later is a scoundrels tactic. Having the choice is the gift. Making the choice is the sacrifice. I've never had the choice but to work.

Glum_Status94 · 2021-09-20T16:55:49+00:00

manfrom-nantucket · 2021-09-20T18:15:37+00:00

Value is constructed over time. It isn't just born by walking up to a person and slapping your vagina on the table.

M_LaSalle · 2021-09-20T19:19:27+00:00

If, to men, the passage of time depreciates women’s value but, to employers, it renders them more valuable because they have more experience/skill/knowledge, then investing in a career is a wiser and more logical choice for women than investing in relationships with men is.

This is daft. Women need a way to make ends meet, but they are also going to want a romantic partner. If a woman wants to be valuable to man after age thirty, then she needs to be investing in a romantic partner in her twenties, because like it or not, hotness declines over time. A woman who invests in a good partner in her twenties will still have value to that partner when she's thirty, or forty, or more. A woman who fails to invest in a romantic partner in her twenties will find potential partners harder to come by when she's thirty, no matter how successful her career has been.

And a woman needs to understand who and what she is to the man she's spending her time with. If she's just a plate that he's spinning, she may not have value to him tomorrow morning, let alone when she's thirty.

LowCreddit · 2021-09-20T20:21:21+00:00

It hinges on one question. Do you want children? If yes, then marriage to a dedicated father is the optimal solution. If no, then just go into a high paying field with few women, cash your free money, and fuck the hottest guys you can for as long as you can.

The hardest part of this is women often change their minds in their 30s, especially high-power women. The problem is that women's window for optimal dating and child rearing is gone by them. You have to reach out to your nearest orbiter and rush some kids. It's not a recipe for happiness.

If you were smart, you would pick a field so desperate for women that taking a few years out is no big deal, marry a hot guy in that field, have some kids, and still succeed.

Moneydamjan · 2021-09-20T22:25:11+00:00

80% of divorces are initiated by women, so no need to be paranoid a man will leave you for a younger woman

NUKE_DEMOCRACY · 2021-09-21T07:42:59+00:00

they are valuable as partners, just not as valuable in terms of sexual appeal/fertility as younger women

same with men really

Title	[CMV] It’s unwise for women to invest in romantic relationships with men if they aren’t valuable to men past age 30.
Author	questionasker012
Upvotes	219
Comments	478
Date	September 19, 2021 7:43 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/prexzk/cmv_its_unwise_for_women_to_invest_in_romantic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-its-unwise-for-women-to-invest-in-romantic.1075523 https://theredarchive.com/post/1075523

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