Men only have importance to women as providers.

Think_Brilliant3517 · 2024-03-20T10:30:18+00:00

That reminds me a lot of the "Women only have importance to men as sexual objects" but the other way around

N-Zoth · 2024-03-20T06:23:40+00:00

As with most things, you don't hear about the relationships where both partners love and admire each other because it's very normal and not interesting.

You hear anecdotes about cartoonish sociopaths struggling with even the most basic of interactions.

The entire "dating advice" community is very bad about this, trying to build entire theories and philosophies around abnormal behaviors instead of saying "yea that's messed up lol" and moving on.

EulenWatcher · 2024-03-20T06:29:15+00:00

Almost half of couples in the US do not have a male breadwinner. Sure, on average men earn more than their partners, just as women spend more time on chores and childcare. Does it mean that men view women as maids and incubators while women view men as wallets? Not really. People gain far more from relationships than just monetary value or cleaning/childcare services and most couples start dating because they enjoy each other’s company not because they seek a sugar daddy or a live-in maid.

TRTGymBro · 2024-03-20T11:03:28+00:00

Oh god, Esther Vilar again. You just discovered that obscure book and now you think you have it all figured out. Evil wimminz everywhere.

Dishonouronmycow2 · 2024-03-20T11:35:56+00:00

If a man wants a traditional relationship then that’s part of his responsibility, but not the only thing that matters in the same way that a woman who wants a traditional relationship would be expected to have kids and take care of them at home which is her responsibility but not the only thing that matters

januaryphilosopher · 2024-03-20T07:39:00+00:00

I wonder why women have jumped to provide for themselves then. Why they have fought to be able to survive working on their own without a man if they choose. Why in most couples the partners earn similar amounts. Why women put in hours on end to provide unpaid labour at home to support a man they don't care for. Why they would choose to be in relationships at all when they usually lose out financially and certainly have less finances under their own control. Maybe, just maybe, this Esther lady was wrong.

nightsofthesunkissed · 2024-03-20T09:35:44+00:00

You're going to base your entire view of this on what a random 88 year old writer said?

RubyDiscus · 2024-03-20T06:55:31+00:00

This is BS most women work now. It's not about seeking a man to be a provider for most women.

It's about chemistry and the guy equally pulling his weight.

KayRay1994 · 2024-03-20T14:04:38+00:00

Your entire premise is based on discussions had in dating forums dominated by single men - i’m not gonna deny a man’s importance as a provider, however, the “only” part is far fetched and what provider means is often mailable and at this stage does not inherently tie into financial provision

Maffioze · 2024-03-20T08:05:13+00:00

You have correctly identified an issue which is men being judged by the size of their wealth.

However you made the mistake to make overly negative conclusions about women as a whole because of it. Consider the following points:

1)Women who want providers are a slight majority of women at best, its not all of them.

2)of those women who want providers, only a minority are goldiggers who have a transactional view of relationships who want to extract as much value from men as possible without loving them in return. The majority in contrast will contribute to the relationship in non-financial ways and express love and desire for their partner.

SupposedlySapiens · 2024-03-20T19:20:42+00:00

I’m pretty sure that there is near-perfect overlap between guys who bitch and moan about women expecting them to pay for dates, and guys who continually fail romantically and sexually.

obviousredflag · 2024-03-20T10:19:25+00:00

Everything you quote from Esther Vilar goes directly to the trash bin.

Explain how men are in relationships with women where everything is split 50/50? I never pay for women on dates. I don't provide for my long term girlfriend at all. I am quite successful with women. In the last years, women insist on splitting bills, taking turns in ordering drinks etc.

You can be the provider and pay on dates if you want, to attrcat women with according values. But to even THINK that men only have importance as providers, when young women on average earn more than men and have no need for a provider at all, is ridiculous. Once you get out of the lowest socio-economic class where people struggle to survive the next month economically, women look for partners they can realize top level Maslow needs with. Self actualization, growth, self-esteem, etc.

literaryhogwartian · 2024-03-20T10:29:29+00:00

Very few women in the modern age are expecting men to pay for dates. This is ridiculous. We were going Dutch when I was dating 15 years ago. What binds you to each other is feelings and commitment

WilliamWyattD · 2024-03-20T07:10:59+00:00

Esther Villar is a trip. Always provoking; but a little nuts, too.

Male, not female, preferences tend to ultimately hold sway in how women dress. But yes, it is indirect and women are thinking of other women when they dress. That is true.

Puzzleheaded_Card_71 · 2024-03-20T17:57:26+00:00

Not wrong. Many women obscure the reality but ultimately I’ve noticed when I got tired of providing far more in relationships than I received, and asked for more equal effort, the relationships ended.

The most glaring and recent personal example was when I paid for 100% the house, more than half the utilities, and her health insurance. Her cost of living greatly improved since she was living for free. My cost of living doubled.

Instead of being happy she yelled at me for not paying her college loans and not paying for more date nights. When I pointed all the bills I was handling she yelled ‘you’re a man that’s what you’re supposed to do.’

Realistic-Ad-1023 · 2024-03-20T18:17:35+00:00

My partner isn’t my provider tho. He’s my best friend. He’s my lover. He’s my rock. He’s honest and loyal and my safe place. But he is not a provider. We make the same amount of money and split bills 50/50. We would both live exactly the same without one another only he’d clean his own bathroom and I wouldn’t have a dog.

ETA: act like a human ATM, get treated like a human ATM. If the only thing you bring to the table is being a “provider” in the form of money, why are you upset when women only value you for your ability to provide money?

apresonly · 2024-03-20T19:11:33+00:00

just like no man would marry a woman who wouldn't have sex with him.

harmonica2 · 2024-03-20T13:53:40+00:00

My girlfriend and I go dutch all the time and she makes more money than me but she still wants me for a relationship.

Ayaka_Simp_ · 2024-03-20T12:33:16+00:00

Disagree. Women love Chad. Chad doesn't have to provide anything. Chad is loved for who he is. That is why so many men want to be Chad. They want to be loved instead of an atm substitute.

CatholicChanner · 2024-03-20T06:33:56+00:00

Try being a Christian man in 2024 where some women literally and openly tell you to your face that your main/only worth is being a provider and if you do not make [x] amount of money you are a failure as a man, certain Christian dating subreddits have had some wild takes by the women there over the years. You don't even get to enter the ring for a date unless you make a certain amount to fund their dream trad wife lifestyle. Just a reminder for some people who are looking for their trad wives on here you literally get what you pay for.

To be fair that is not all or even the majority of Christian women but damn it has been an eye-opening experience.

Virtual_Piece · 2024-03-20T10:07:36+00:00

Like I say, it's just a different kind of objectification that men go through because some women do view men as wallets. At this point you would only have to recognize the ones who do and date the ones who don't.

Ill_Conversation5351 · 2024-03-20T21:34:39+00:00

I think at the most fundamental level people are simply looking for human connection, and someone they could see sharing a life with. A realistic benchmark is that someone can provide for themselves without reliance on others. In today’s world I think both men and women are assessing that in potential partners.

Safinated · 2024-03-20T14:10:56+00:00

Nope. Lots of women only care about feels or status, as the relationship/abuse subs make clear

And the number of female breadwinners and househusbands has been increasing for decades

The fact that women work and many men are no longer providers is the very reason that some are struggling. Without economic leverage, there is nothing for them to of offer

And you’re very aware that women don’t make money off of dates. We’re not doing it to survive; how dramatic

baseproposition · 2024-03-20T15:07:13+00:00

I’m so sick of this moral posturing lmao.

Patriarchal structures cast men as providers and women as mothers. Under patriarchal structures women also lose their potential, identity and unlike men under these structures our autonomy.

These structures were set up by and for men and upheld by the most annoying people alive. A large percentage of women (and men) have rejected these structures and sought to provide for themselves or seek happiness independent of traditional relationship norms. Your beef is with men who set these structures up, not women who want to date within their income bracket (something that’s now necessary bc single income households aren’t a thing unless you’re making north of 200k) .

No one is forcing you to be a provider. No one is forcing you to be in a relationship where you’re taken for granted or being used for your money. No one is forcing you to chase women at the cost of using your intelligence and creativity (both of which are attractive qualities). You are trying to jam yourself into a mold that isn’t even the norm anymore in most parts of the US.

Stop chasing women and go use your intelligence and creativity. Literally no one is stopping you lmao.

Nellylocheadbean · 2024-03-20T13:43:21+00:00

I would say men’s importance to women is more so how useful they are. Money is a factor in overall usefulness.

YourAverageRadish · 2024-03-20T08:39:11+00:00

When will you stop citing this sociopath? That's like citing Hitler and thinking you're so smart for doing so.

shonenhikada · 2024-03-20T08:54:49+00:00

There was a large marriage study that tracked marriage patterns of short men and tall men. It was found that not only are tall men able to get married young but they often got married to women that make more than them. While, short men (5'8 and under) often got married later in life to women that made less than them.

The reality is that most men are not physically attractive to the avg woman. This is often due to genetic limitations on the man's part such as race, height, facial aesthetics. And while men can notice an increase in their dating power by working out or FIXING facial deformities like acne scars, this only applies to men who had the right genetic potential to begin with. So the rest of men often need to increase their SMV/RMV by raising their status and money to attract women. This can come in dressing in better clothing, getting better looking car, making more money, improving ones status through recognition and accomplishments.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-03-20T13:04:11+00:00

So you’ve chosen a rage bait book from 1971 as your personal grievance bible…🙄.

In 1971 women earned less than 60% of what men earned.

Banks could refuse women a credit card until the Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974 was signed into law. Prior to that, a bank could refuse to issue a credit card to an unmarried woman, and if a woman was married, her husband was required to cosign.

Many banks required single, divorced or widowed women to bring a man with them to cosign for a credit card, and some discounted the wages of women by as much as 50% when calculating their credit card limits.

In 1971 women could legally be fired for being pregnant. The Pregnancy Discrimination Act of 1978 prohibited sexual discrimination on the basis of pregnancy, according to the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission’s website. It stated that women who are pregnant or have been affected by pregnancy or childbirth must be treated the same for all employment-related purposes.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 created the basis for discrimination cases in its Article VII and established the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. But it wasn't until 1980 that the EEOC determined that sexual harassment was a form of sex discrimination.

In 1986, the Federal Sexual Abuse Act criminalized marital rape on all Federal lands, but it was not until July 5, 1993, when marital rape became a crime in the sexual offense codes in all 50 states, according to the National Criminal Justice Reference Service.

It was not until 1972 that birth control pills were available to unmarried women.

1981 Kirchberg v. Feenstra, 450 U.S. 455, 459-60, overturns state laws designating a husband “head and master” with unilateral control of property owned jointly with his wife.

Many things have changed since 1971…it turns out that when women have the legal rights necessary to “provide” for themselves, they don’t actually need men to “provide” and are free to choose the men that they actually want or to not choose as any men at all…

Perhaps consider that 50+ year old misogynist propaganda isn’t your best source of information about present day dating and relationships🤣

Tienis · 2024-03-20T11:49:27+00:00

This is exactly why feminism is good for men too! In a society where women have to be dependent on men of course you get this kind of behaviour. When you need a man in your life to make a living it’s not crazy that women choose a men’s money above other characteristics. I suggest reading ‘why women had better sex under socialism’

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FreitasAlan · 2024-03-20T15:26:44+00:00

That’s weird. If that were the case there would be no betabux. Most men are concerned to be seen as a provider while other men got much more for free as lovers.

MistyMaisel · 2024-03-20T15:45:00+00:00

Yeah, but he's my favourite means to an end tho. He's a sexy lil means to an end. He can put his means in my end. He's a handsome good boy means to an end. I call him daddy because he provides all the means to my end. Ahh le petite mort.

No, but seriously, this quasi nazi is ridiculous. She makes it sound bad that women rarely consider men in how they dress outside of when they care to impress one. Like change the genders and that's a non-statement. Also, the man only has importance as a provider in no way follows from her observations about women's fashion choices. It's like if I made all these statements about fashion choices and then said, "Cat has importance only as the comfort snuggle bunny". Like, search me what the fuck cats as snuggle bunnies and women's fashion has to do with each other.

Her statements about men at work crack me the fuck up. How does he not gain from working? Go ahead and struggle less, boys. This is a goddamn fantasy. Especially for a woman of the 60s to say. Most of the women around her were fucking employed. Yeah, she quit her jobs, doesn't mean the rest of the majority of women did. And luxuries don't mean anything to men, great, I'll go tell my boyfriend to send back his luxury (nice try atf), his luxury tracksuits, and all the other luxuries he buys that do fuck all for me. And he seems pretty fucking proud of those items. Is this just German cultural curses. Is that what this is? Y'all fucked around and found out too hard and now you have to spend all your days apologizing for what you did and not having luxuries.

My man doesn't provide for me. Frankly, I provide more for him if we do the math. I love him to pieces, he's the best thing ever and the greatest. I'm sorry she doesn't love men for more than that. I'm sorry she can't hold a job besides inflammatory lay about. Most of us don't feel that way.

Even if this were true, which it wholesale is not and anyone who has met any man or his woman knows it, you basically just told us men don't value women as human beings, they value them as validation (which is egotistical and has nothing to do with who the woman is) or sex objects (which again, not valuing a woman). So it's two people not valuing each other, but men are fucking crying about it because....why?

HumpsyDumpsy · 2024-03-20T17:05:10+00:00

Woah, woah woah there.. Notice the double standard

This is why it's such a big deal for most of them when a man doesn't pay for their food on a date, for example. He's just a means to an end.

This is why it's so easy for women to use and manipulate men, and men allow it to happen just for sex and validation.

That's the dilemma. Too many ppl are dating with expectations that only fulfill their needs.

Frettioio · 2024-03-20T17:38:33+00:00

No. Men and women aren’t monolithic, homogenous groups that all entail or embody equal values. This is BS.

Zombombaby · 2024-03-20T17:50:55+00:00

Weird, as a woman, I must be doing it wrong because I'm fully employed and supplied the majority of the deposit for our houses when we purchased them. Most women I know are employed full time and aren't SAHMs. In fact, in this economy, it's rare to have a stay at home partner unless their slaries dont cover daycare costs and it's more affordable to to be the SAHM than pay for childcare.

This is such a weird argument.

Searchtheanswer · 2024-03-20T17:59:03+00:00

So you’re saying that men use women and see them as just sex objects?

Psychological_Box397 · 2024-03-20T18:14:01+00:00

I rely on my husband for companionship and teamwork. He picks up the slack with the baby when I get caught at work.

It's not all what you see on social media dawg.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2024-03-20T18:20:53+00:00

If that’s true how do you explain those of us who out earn our men?

serpensmercurialis · 2024-03-20T18:33:37+00:00

This is why it's such a big deal for most of them when a man doesn't pay for their food on a date, for example. He's just a means to an end.

Women can buy their own dinner though. He’s a very inefficient means to that end in that case.

dmatthews021120 · 2024-03-20T18:52:04+00:00

I think this is probably overstating a bit, but fundamentally a lot of relationships (save a few) are pretty transactional. And appropriately so. I would say men have importance to women in accordance with how useful they are, and one of the ways to be useful is to acquire resources like money. There are other ways for men to be useful.

Men should generally strive to be useful and you'll discover women end up pretty devoted to you. Being useful to a woman will bind her to you.

ComfortableHyena3813 · 2024-03-20T18:53:20+00:00

Interestingly, being a provider isn't really the most important thing to women seeking men anymore. As with anything, there will still be those that place high importance on one thing (whether it be looks, money, prestige, or maybe even intelligence).

Most people today are looking for a supportive and reliable partner. Someone that brings more peace than chaos.

Generally speaking, most people that are seriously together are within a range of incomes that are kind of close.

Of course we know there are outliers in any situation. In those relationships the participants have worked out how each will contribute to the relationship. Some people put more work in at home and provide less financially to the home.

CasseroleTruck · 2024-03-20T18:55:50+00:00

No matter what a particular man does or how he spends his day, he has one thing in common with all other men - he spends it in a degrading manner. And he himself does not gain by it.*

I feel like I'm gaining a lot of coffee and good food, day trips and gaming time. I still have to work, but most people do. I suppose I have to admit if I never planned on women in the future again I wouldn't be as regimented with things like skincare, finances or exercise, but those things are for myself too.

playboiferina · 2024-03-20T20:23:14+00:00

all men are just an ends to an end, whether it be attention, money, status, dick. its just if you can provide whatever she wants and also can she provide what you want. its all a value exchange.

paputsza · 2024-03-20T21:29:14+00:00

Paying for things is more of a control thing than anything else. If he’ll spend $300 on a date, he’ll spend $300 on your offspring. Like his money is my money. Nothing scares me more than a guy who spends 1k on nikes when their kid doesn’t have diapers.

FreshBroccoli112 · 2024-03-21T00:13:12+00:00

"We have absolutely no idea what the world would be like if men really used their intelligence and imagination instead of wasting it chasing women and trying to impress them."

Then stop chasing women and start chasing your dreams.

Agreeable-Moment-760 · 2024-03-21T02:59:15+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Admirable-Ratio-5748 · 2024-03-21T08:30:21+00:00

providers AND protectors. I don't care if there is a male model, 6'3, millionaire, playboy, who's charismatic. If im a mafia boss and I want him taken out then there's nothing can do.

Power/dangerousness is thee most attractive thing to a woman.

InfiniteMagnets · 2024-03-21T10:16:35+00:00

I have never met a man who could provide for me whatsoever. I was always the one paying for everything.

There are men out there who want to be providers. There are women out there who want providers. These two types of people are compatible. Whatever works for them is none of our business

Westernation · 2024-03-21T20:35:12+00:00

I think it’s a little more nuanced than that.

Besides, it’s fun when you chase her - and she lets you catch her 😈

zip_per · 2024-03-21T23:18:09+00:00

I (F) paid for the food on my first date with my partner (M). And literally ever since then, we take turn paying. We split rent evenly. We split gas on trips. Tbh, most relationships around me are the same. I get there's some women who think they shouldn't be responsible, but I think you're vastly overgeneralizing here. The onoy exception I find fair is in the case she is pregnant or is the main source of childcare- if she puts her life and body on the line for something the man wanted, I feel it's 100% fair for him to cover more financial needs while she is less capable of making money and is at a higher health risk than him.

cromulent_weasel · 2024-03-22T00:08:28+00:00

When a woman dresses, she considers a man to a slight extent - the extent necessary to hold him and to encourage him to provide (in the widest sense) for her. Every other investment is aimed at other women.

I don't think it's this so much as the constant messaging from the fashion industry that women's value is based on how much men desire them. The industry creates insecurities in women so that they can be exploited for financial gain.

No matter what a particular man does or how he spends his day, he has one thing in common with all other men - he spends it in a degrading manner. And he himself does not gain by it.

This is a pessimistic take on things. If you WANT to be sad, feel free to be as myopic as you want. But I do think that men gain from being in relationships and having kids etc.

It is not his own livelihood that matters: he would have to struggle far less for that, since luxuries do not mean anything to him anyway. it is the fact that he does it for others that makes him so tremendously proud.

Essentially the villain here is capitalism. I'm not sure we can blame women for that?

This is why it's so easy for women to use and manipulate men, and men allow it to happen just for sex and validation.

Just find a woman who likes sex too. It's not that hard. The woman I am currently dating, we were musing over the 'why would someone be in a romantic relationship as opposed to just being friends' and the conclusions we came to were 1: sex and 2: cheaper cohabiting.

We have absolutely no idea what the world would be like if men really used their intelligence and imagination instead of wasting it chasing women and trying to impress them.

Eh, just look at nature documentaries. Animals spend a lot of time trying to impress mates. Why do you think humans have transcended their biology?

The sad thing is women don't even value men as human beings, they just want a provider.

This is just a depressing lie. What's the goal, other than to denigrate women?

qunamax · 2024-03-24T03:42:28+00:00

Finally something that makes sense here.

fiftypoundpuppy · 2024-03-20T08:20:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

purplish_possum · 2024-03-20T13:37:45+00:00

it is the fact that he does it for others that makes him so tremendously proud

This part is actually true guys do actually like providing for their families. It's just too bad most women don't appreciate it.

Confident-Bat7194 · 2024-03-20T12:25:11+00:00

Well yes but no i totally expect the man to pay for me after i took so much time to look good for him hair makeup perfume etc r expensive lol

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-03-20T13:18:18+00:00

I’m a woman with a man who makes less than me. I love him for so many things, including the fact that he is a hard worker. Who cares if he makes less money than me. I value men like human beings. I’m not looking for a provider because I provide for myself.

But after all of that, I’m sure you think that I’m 1) a rare exception that hardly ever happens, 2) using my partner for some other manipulative reason, or 3) confused and too stupid to understand what I really want and will eventually leave him.

Intrepid-Rip-2280 · 2024-03-20T13:39:57+00:00

Probably that's why I'm far better with eva ai sexting bot than with real girls.

SupposedlySapiens · 2024-03-20T14:20:24+00:00

Chasing and trying to impress women are what men have been doing for as long as we’ve been human. And once a woman is suitably impressed, then we protect and provide for her. That’s just the way the game works.

2024-03-20T18:38:43+00:00

That’s correct. Now let’s all get some popcorn and watch as women come to insist this isn’t true…..right after they cheat on their boyfriend and leave him for not having more money.

qwertyuduyu321 · 2024-03-20T07:01:10+00:00

Projection.

A good amount of men are viewed as utility (and always were) but a smaller percentage of men are, in fact, highly desired by a majority of women.

ArtifactFan65 · 2024-03-20T07:30:46+00:00

That's not true, men are also valued by women as bodyguards, emotional tampons and human dildos

AstronautExisting230 · 2024-03-20T06:25:55+00:00

pretty much

wolfloveyes · 2024-03-20T08:15:04+00:00

Men desire women but most often the not - those men are not stable financially, or can't pull her weight.

Then majority of women go for next best thing that is a strong provider.

Most women would like the 1st kind of guy but if he's also kind, empathetic, then she would love to depend on him.

But most men aren't like that. So women get their own job, and then look for the 1st category of guy.

Title	Men only have importance to women as providers.
Author	Agreeable-Moment-760
Upvotes	48
Comments	494
Date	March 20, 2024 6:16 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1bj6sow/men_only_have_importance_to_women_as_providers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-only-have-importance-to-women-as-providers.1428584 https://theredarchive.com/post/1428584

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