Women’s reliance on passive dating is self-sabotage and they know it

Hot-Law2682 · 2025-03-27T12:43:09+00:00

The amount of effort from the girl is related to where you stand among her other options.

I could tell when I was a girl's best option, they were super proactive in texting, would ask to meet up without even needing a "date", and constantly complimented me.

When I was in the average-tier (compared to her other options) I would get very little attention, ghosted frequently, and they would never plan a date.

This makes sense to me, if you have an infinite supply of 6/10 dudes it doesn't make sense to really prioritize any one of them, but if an 8/10 guy comes around then the effort increases.

IHaveABigDuvet · 2025-03-27T16:07:56+00:00

I think women should definitely be assertive in dating.

The only problem is most men will take a free lay even if they are not really interested from someone they wouldn’t otherwise pursue.

It can easily backfire on a woman if she wants an actual relationship.

analt223 · 2025-03-27T13:47:03+00:00

Women do approach. Its about 10% of men they deem worthy of approaching. Im not one, you probably arent either. Sorry.

The issue is women just dont deem enough men attractive to end gender roles.

FearlessSea4270 · 2025-03-27T12:02:09+00:00

Women do approach first when they’re interested in someone. When they’re not they’re focused on living their life, enjoying their time/hobbies/friends/family.

As with anything on the internet the lonely losers are the loudest with too much time on their hands.

Like I guess I agree it’s “self-sabotage” because they’re intentionally choosing their own lifestyle. But being single isn’t the total loss y’all think it is 🙈

wtknight · 2025-03-27T13:42:13+00:00

Men say that they want more submissive women but then expect women to be assertive when pursuing men. Men can’t expect to have their cake and eat it too.

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2025-03-27T12:27:14+00:00

Women already approach the men they like.

AngeAware · 2025-03-27T11:23:02+00:00

Okay? Let those women fail.

Oh right we can't do that because the primary concern here isn't their satisfaction so much as how their lack of interest in pursuing affects men.

BigBoodles · 2025-03-28T07:35:57+00:00

We're at a point in gender dynamics where woman are (rightfully) throwing out the negative aspects of traditional gender roles. Unfortunately, most are more than happy to keep around the aspects that benefit them (ie male financial and courtship expectations). It's a frustrating transitional period. Taking the lead on dating is difficult, so most women are fine with sitting back and waiting for Mr. Right to fall through their ceiling. And if he doesn't? From what I've read, women don't seem to mind the single life nearly as much as men.

Schleudergang1400 · 2025-03-27T13:55:31+00:00

What you call outdated gender roles is still very much in tact and is much more biological than socially constructed.

Also: this strategy still works. It is there for a reason, and it's not to protect the ego. It allows men to compete. It reveals male traits that the women wants to select for.

If anything, the answer is: double down on the strategy and when your dating life feels full of poor options: SELF IMPROVE TO ATTRACT MORE AND HIGHER QUALITY OPTIONS (like we tell men as well). Put yourself out there, so men see you and can approach you, show off their traits. Be where men, with the traits you want, hang out. Be open to be approached.

Take some initiative. Be more intentional. Message first. Make a move. Have realistic standards and preferences that align with your own value as a dating prospect, instead of expecting the perfect man to just fall into your lap while you sit back and swipe. Dating, like anything else in life, rewards agency not passivity.

Can you define what a realistic standard is for you before you have dated? Realistic standard = around your own mate value. Mate value = the result of market interactions on the mating market. Mate value constantly changes and traits are valued subjectively. So there is no fixed mate value that is true for all market interactions. There is only an average mate value, or a distribution, determined by all the offers and rejections from others.

Why message first, when there are hundreds of messages waiting in your inbox? What does that improve? Having a higher chance to select a man who is not interested enough, not confident enough, not assertive enough, not intentional enough? There is no higher chance for a better mate among the men who didn't write first (yet), than among the ones who do message first.

How does making the first move and being more intentional lead to finding better options? The quality of the options depends on your own quality, on average. The amount and frequency of the options that you get depends on exposure with the passive strategy. So minimal effort increase can lead to monumental increases in options.

The problem you describe comes from not adapting mate preference or not adapting how you compete intrasexually. The ability, speed and extend to which people are able to adapt these things in mating depend on their individual mating intelligence.

Finally, i think you are falselly assuming that women do not take active roles in their mating endevours. Most of what you describe as being passive, is actively exposing themselves intentionally to an audience they are interested in, with a finely crafted and composed presentation of themselves. They do make the first step in signalling that they are open to be approached by a man they are interested in.

It's just men who never get those signals and approach women who didn't give them signals, who think women are not making a move. Just because it sometimes works to get a woman interested who didn't make this first move, doesn't mean, that women aren't very active in courtship displays and signalling openness and interest.

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TermAggravating8043 · 2025-03-27T11:10:36+00:00

Women already do this, for the men like they like. I’m sorry if this hasn’t happened for you but it happens.

It’s been asked to women here before and they’ve all said they do approach and make first moves

No-Appointment-8270 · 2025-03-27T21:34:01+00:00

Because (most) women are 1. lazy 2. entitled 3. scared to do the first move.

Edit : Also reading people in comments who think all women approach.. Totally delusional, I have female friends who I knew they were attracted to other guys (they told me) and not even one dared to approach their crushes.

flexible-photon · 2025-03-27T16:39:01+00:00

It's like bitching about your shitty job options as a minimum wage worker but never bothering to get training or an education.

Proudvow · 2025-03-28T07:06:08+00:00

I'd be fine with modern women still never making first moves if there wasn't so much social conditioning out there discouraging men from making first moves either.

You cannot raise a man to be passive and then all of a sudden tell him he needs to be assertive.

grown_folks_talkin · 2025-03-27T15:00:21+00:00

The women I see online talking like this are in high demand and actually have a zillion options and often a million simps. It’s already not about lust or maybe even love but what they can get out of guys, materially or ego-boosting.

Most other women are fairly active toward their desired targets, aside from paying on the first date.

doggiedoc2004 · 2025-03-27T15:51:51+00:00

She's Just Not Into You, bro. Women who are attracted and interested in a man let it be known. It may not be in exactly the same manner of communication you are used to, women have different communication and body language styles than men.

There is not a lot of benefit for most women to chase after men who do not express their interest first.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-03-27T11:02:37+00:00

Nope. Being active got me and my friend worse results, ergo we no longer do it

It also makes logical sense

growframe · 2025-03-27T12:35:21+00:00

It rarely is. The passiveness has to be managed (putting in literslly 0 effort will turn guys off eventually) but for the most part, it works.

Men are just more attracted to women than vice-versa, there'll always be enough male attention for women to notvhave to take a majority of the initiative.

RoseyButterflies · 2025-03-27T13:08:00+00:00

Well it worked fine for me tbh.

You're literally wrong.

Women get chased and persued by loads of men.

Aggravating_Owl_1935 · 2025-03-27T11:09:45+00:00

So fucking true, the amount of "strong independent women" i met who never messaged first, never had initiative and expected me to take the lead and assume a even more dominant role than them is crazy, like they are strong and independent but you, as a male, need to always be the lead anyway

cuminciderolnyt · 2025-03-27T12:04:07+00:00

to be fair.. women want to be approached and also approach men that they want. the success of first part is entirely upon the when, where and which state you find the woman in and it can be random as it can be.

What I do find infuriating about the present day dating scene is the indecisiveness and the lack of accountability which women show during dating.

They won't ask a guy out, they expect a guy to ask out but if he is not up to the standards or if you are not in a mood to be asked out of flirted with.. it's the guys fault and if men stop asking women out it is still a problem because men are supposed to lead and we are just being scared of asking out and insinuate that there is nothing to worry if we are not creepy. the problem here is that what women perceive to be creepy entirely depends on their state of mind. So in a sense men are bad if they do engage , bad if they don't engage and bad if they mind their own business. Women pick the men they allow access to their time and body and when their choice goes piss poor due to their poor judgement of assessing things, they blame it on men as well. Granted some men , just like women, pull a bait and switch and it is an issue, but the point still stands. women choose men based on the vibes they feel based on their "intuition" than coming to actual logical assessment based on their behaviour.

Also its always men who are bad and who use women. If a guy refuses to stay as friends after he is rejected its always goes like" why can't we be friends? i enjoy your company". But f the same guy in most cases start dating and tops treating you like a VIP, women lose their shit. Older men cannot date younger but legally aged women but they have no qualms about the same aged women subject themselves to pornography because apparently age of consent and having agency over your sexuality is all fine and dandy then. If a man is only interested in sleeping with a woman that is bad. But if a woman only wants a man to be an emotional pet or lets say, sexual partner it is all fine, A woman can withhold sex from a man but a man is not supposed to withhold money or sex from the woman he is with. Any long term emotional or sexual disengagement is bad when you do it as a man but is fine as a woman. A woman having sex toys or reading smut is fine. But a man watching porn is bad.

Then there is the therapy lingo BS that has crawled into the whole relationships. A few years in when you finally settle down into a relationship, any sort of boredom mean women have to go "find themselves" or lets say "I never had my hoe phase" or "I feel tied down" and it is seen as empowering. Imagine a man saying the same shit and leaving it all behind, the hissy fit that women throw would be wild.

Women like the idea of strong and independent, but they want the men to lead, But they do not want to follow and not to mention they cherry pick the best parts from the strong and independent gimmick. there's also the good communicators and being empathic gimmic. They say they are good communicators but rarely if ever tell people what they want, what they are looking for , what makes them sad or upset. It is upto the men to figure it out based on the "hints". And vulnerability that a man shows often disgusts women even when they openly express and tell me it is fine to be vulnerable. A man who expresses himself emotionally is weak. A man who is struggling is weak,

Then there are the hobbies. Any hobby that is not lets say appealing to women is bad. video games, table top RPG games, anime etc are all bad. if we engage in them it is an ick. heck we cant even be passionate about something we enjoy and sometimes mentioning these things destroys anything before it happens.

Plus it also does not help that many men and women come with so much unaddressed emotional damage. I have seen this mostly in women though. Like they come into the dating scene but are wary of the men they date because their ex treated them bad. Sure it is right to be wary but the new guy isnt your ex and then you expect him to put himself to a standard which she thinks she deserves. Not to mention sometimes all these emotional issues lead these women to be absolutely unsure of what they want and where they stand during the dating phase ruining the whole thing for a guy who managed to start dating them. Two dates in and you start hearing "I am not in a good place/ I am still reeling back from my past relationship/ I am sad that my ex treated me this way", If you have these unaddressed emotional baggages, its better you steer clear from the dating scene and try to fix your issues than putting the whole burden onto the shoulders of the unsuspecting new person.

ExcitementLow4699 · 2025-03-27T13:36:48+00:00

It seems like you want the women who are complaining about the quality of their dating options to start actively approaching "better men." But I don't think the complainers are finding "better men," or at least not ones who are interested in them... Otherwise the women would be getting approached by better men.

The complainers aren't going "The men who approach me suck" they're going, "All the men I'm encountering suck," and whether they approach or not is of little consequence. (Especially if they want their men to be active pursuer/date planners/leaders in the relationship.)

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catdog8020 · 2025-03-27T19:38:33+00:00

It’s interesting I was in New York City for a couple of days on vacation and asked a 30 year old woman if dating was hard for a woman in New York City and she said that it was and that she hasn’t had a boyfriend in 2 years and gets frustrated and deletes the dating apps and then uploads them again and again.

As I am interested in these dating issues, i asked her if she thought her standards were to high. She was dumbfounded and reflected for a bit and then said “maybe”. I then asked her if she was worried about not finding a relationship with a man and being single as she is getting older. She replied “no, I’m not worried I will be ok”.

She may be ok but she may not be but bottom line I wonder if some woman really don’t realize they are spinsters per definition of a spinster. No doubt, if this was 30 years ago before the tv series sex and the city was normalized I wonder if her responses would have been different. Thus, I wonder if woman realize that they are conditioned via social media and liberal feminist culture to be spinsters. I wonder? Any thoughts?

Any-Use8599 · 2025-03-28T02:51:59+00:00

It all trickles down to the mere fact that it doesn’t serve women and their self-interest. When it came to having the right to vote that’s when the needed to make changes, when it came time to how media/mediums portray women that’s when we needed to make changes, when it came to women going for endeavors for a financial matters, and educational matters that’s when we needed to make changes. But interestingly enough when it comes to evening out the playing field regarding intersexual dynamics that’s when the line needs to be drawn in the sand. The intellectual dishonesty, hypocrisy, and cognitive dissonance is strong.

y2kjanelle · 2025-03-28T02:57:31+00:00

I don’t mind putting in effort after he makes the first move. Why? Because I have never minded making the first move in anything, friends, dating, work, but for some reason in dating, making the first move has proven to backfire. That part of my personality had to be toned down because unfortunately, it just doesn’t hold much value with men.

Once it’s established they like me and they are pursuing me, then the effort is appreciated and looked upon favorably.

But before that, if I am more into him or am pursuing him, it’s a turn off. Which is difficult because I’m outgoing, blunt and straightforward but it seems that doesn’t allow men to pursue me and ruins the chase for them. So I adjusted and stopped doing that, pulled back, acted more nonchalant and I got much better responses.

Just how it is i guess. otherwise I wouldn’t mind pursuing men.

False-Purple3882 · 2025-03-28T04:56:19+00:00

It has nothing to do with “ego”. Approaching him increases the chances of you getting someone who just settled for you.

not just bad luck but bad strategy

What would you, as a man, know about what would be good strategy for women looking for a partner? You’re not a woman. It’s irritating when men presume to know how women should operate our dating lives.

message first, have realistic standards

Aside from what I’ve already addressed about this being ridiculous, women already do this. I did this. The result was a 7 month long relationship in which he eventually crashed out because I didn’t express emotion the way he wanted me to. This is why men should quit attempting to give women advice on anything regarding dating. You all are delusional and project your experience back onto us.

MidoriEgg · 2025-03-28T07:57:40+00:00

There’s different levels of passivity.

There’s being passive we’re you do absolutely nothing to put yourself in situations where you’re likely to meet someone, and if you do, you don’t put any effort into being reciprocal. Expecting a relationship to manifest with no intentions or effort on your part.

Then there’s being passive somewhat in your approach but still engaging with the dating scene (ie, going to places you’re likely to meet someone/be approached, responding to messages if someone’s potentially you’re type, being reciprocal if someone makes the first move, just putting yourself ‘out there’ etc).

When I was single, I wanted to be with someone who was attracted to me enough and confident enough to make the first move and plan the first date- I think a lot of women feel that way, but there are definitely things you can do to make that easier and increase the likelihood of this happening.

KamuiObito · 2025-03-28T23:50:01+00:00

Exactly most women really could be done with dating at 18-25 but they inherently like to have bs drama stories to tell it seems. Relationship that should end immediately last long asl and relationship that should’ve lasted longer are cut short to be in a another bs ass drama filled relationship.

But to them it’s apart of the game. You have to as a women go through needless suffering because of man and basically just sit there until you get bored and actually do something about it just to get in a similar relationship with 0 awareness or thoughts.

Choice-Relative-4546 · 2025-03-29T10:12:39+00:00

You do realise that women actually put in more effort than men in dating when they see a dude they really like. Sure the average "meh" backup guy in her dms will never get this attention, even if he's the best option she has access to. Women do exactly what you said and more when they actually like a guy. Women are only passive with average guys they don't really feel a spark with when they don't have a better guy available.

GroundbreakingFox216 · 2025-03-29T21:35:48+00:00

I like the Facebook Dating approach. You can't message each other unless you both match. I always message first so they stay in the dating DM. I always them questions about their bios, and if they respond back with a question about me, I don't respond and continue to swipe. I'm only matching energy. I don't chase anymore. If a woman really likes a guy they chase them like crazy because they aren't constraint by society's norms that men are constraint by

electric_icy1234 · 2025-03-27T14:30:27+00:00

Stop worrying what women are doing and focus on yourself lmao. If YOU WANT IT, YOU GET IT. You really can’t change what others do, you can only change what you do. If you really want to get approached, do what it takes to be approached. Look your best, know your charms and learn how to use them, improve social skills, learn how to be more approachable, improve your own dating game. Be realistic enough with yourself, address your own flaws & work on them. If you really want to be with someone but it doesn’t look like they would notice you or approach you first, you do it first. You don’t even put in effort for anything and just complain. Nobody finds that attractive man or woman.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2025-03-27T13:51:38+00:00

lol what kind of dating world do you think actually exists? That men are just roaming the streets hoping a woman will randomly approach him? And anything short of that is considered “passive” on behalf of the woman? cmon real life isn’t split into “he should make the first move” and “I approached him out of the blue.” Most relationships are started either on the apps where it’s already implied that you’re looking to date, or in real life through a series of gradually escalating high chemistry interactions that is most often not just one side asking the other side.

LoudPiece6914 · 2025-03-27T12:26:07+00:00

I’m not sure that they do realize that. You have to go all in on a strategy and you can’t pick and choose what parts you like and don’t like. If you wanna take a passive roll, you have to be open to meeting new people trying new things and following The man’s lead. If you want a specific type of man, you need to go where they are or when you see them start the conversation. If you want to give them pushback, you need to offer alternative suggestions and if they don’t get something perfectly right you need to be willing to help. And you need to understand men don’t understand hints and subtlety like women do so when you think you’re being clear you’re not being clear. So, it’s OK to be passive if you are available whenever he asks, allow him to take the lead unchallenged,and don’t push back on his efforts. But if you want to have a more modern mix, you have to be willing to do some of the work and help a guy who’s putting an effort for you rather than waiting for him to get it perfect.

missmireya · 2025-03-27T16:12:15+00:00

Nope, sorry. I'm not doing your job for you. Pretty sure I have always despised shy passive men.

It took me a long time to figure it out, but I have only ever been attracted to assertive dominant men. Which are few and far in between.

BobtheArcher2018 · 2025-03-27T14:39:10+00:00

It's the idea of too much genderlessness that is stupid, not that women should initiate more in a very unregulated mating market. Women won't/can't/don't want to do that. The only thing that would lessen the male burden of initiation is more regulation and intermediation in the mating economy. Whether that is good or bad is another discussion.

orangestringtheory · 2025-03-27T16:32:06+00:00

Women will pretend they have no agency and choose to relegate themselves to the role of active bystander with their love life. All to protect their ego. And that ego is why they think this game of just focusing on their appearance to attract a suitable man will work, completely disregarding the very real possibility that no suitable man is going to choose them because now that beauty comes in a can it dilutes the power of it.

Title	Women’s reliance on passive dating is self-sabotage and they know it
Author	One_Job9692
Upvotes	203
Comments	492
Date	March 27, 2025 10:53 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1jl1538/womens_reliance_on_passive_dating_is_selfsabotage/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/womens-reliance-on-passive-dating-is-self-sabotage.1547790 https://theredarchive.com/post/1547790

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