A lot of men who women otherwise love as friends, but never see them “that way”

growframe · 2025-08-23T16:37:25+00:00

If you aren't sexually attractive you'll be percieved as an asexual blob. Women like being friends with asexual blobs, they (anyone in general) don't like dating them

So personality probably isn’t the issue.

Personality plays a part in attraction, though. Being exciting, fun and flirty are all things that will make you more sexually attractive, while not being requirements for friendliness.

Exciting_Baseball982 · 2025-08-23T17:26:06+00:00

This isn't a contradiction.

The "nice guy" and the "fuccboi" are not being evaluated on the same scale. Women are not a monolith, but they are human, and humans are wired for attraction first, logistics second.

The "fuccboi" wins on the attraction scale. He triggers visceral, often subconscious cues of genetic fitness, social dominance, and sexual confidence even if it's a facade. This is the Halo Effect in its rawest form: when one positive trait (looks, vibe, confidence) bleeds over to paint everything else about him in a positive light. His asshole behavior can even be misinterpreted as "high value" because he's not supplicating.

The "nice guy" loses on the attraction scale. He might be a 10/10 on the friendship scale kind, reliable, a great listener. But that doesn't magically create sexual chemistry. In fact, his willingness to be an emotional sponge without demanding romantic reciprocity often signals a lack of the very assertiveness and boundaries that create attraction. He becomes furniture. Comfortable, reliable, but utterly non sexual.

You're right, personality isn't the issue. The right personality for friendship is often the exact wrong personality for primal attraction. Women don't owe the nice guy sex just because he's a good friend, any more than you owe your buddy a car just because he's a good mechanic.

The brutal truth is that being a "great guy" is the bare minimum for being considered for a relationship. It is not the driver of attraction. The driver is a separate, often amoral, set of traits centered around confidence, assertiveness, and physical presence. The nice guy is not "beneath" the fuccboi, he's playing a different game entirely and wondering why he's not winning.

lesliecarbone · 2025-08-23T16:30:05+00:00

A person can enjoy another person's company at a friendship level without being interested in the additional aspects of a "romantic" relationship.

Environmental_Day558 · 2025-08-23T16:52:25+00:00

I think what OP is getting at is when sexually unsuccessful men who are already in the vicinity of women vent about how they aren't having success attracting them and landing dates, the first thing people get at is that they probably need to fix their personality. "Have you tried being nice to women?". Stuff like that. The disconnect comes when these guys see other guys who aren't nice not have to struggle and always keep a rotation. Somehow, it's taboo to say that the reason you're struggling is because you're not attractive enough. Whether it be their face or their height. Women don't want to seem "shallow", so the default advice is just be nice and take a shower. This is where the disconnect comes from.

MrTTripz · 2025-08-23T16:25:39+00:00

I don’t think I understand the problem.

No one is obligated to be romantically interested in anyone else.

If you are friendzoned and have romantic feelings that are not reciprocated, then ending the relationship is fair.

krackedy · 2025-08-23T16:26:22+00:00

You can value personality and connection and still not be attracted to a particular guy.

Attraction matters. Someone can be a great human and you still don't want to fuck them.

MyLastBestChance · 2025-08-23T18:11:51+00:00

Do you not understand that just because someone may not be unattractive, it doesn’t mean that they are sexually attractive or romantically compatible with everyone that they get along with?

I’ve known more than a few men who are definitely physically attractive by just about any standard and are great guys but I haven’t been attracted to them that way. There was just something that wasn’t there🤷‍♀️. In some cases they felt the same way. Should work on paper but just not a pull towards each other romantically.

Barneysparky · 2025-08-23T16:31:05+00:00

I "love" most of the people I work with, really like spending time with them.

And? If one gets a crush, then what?

RinoaRita · 2025-08-23T16:48:56+00:00

There’s a venn diagram of good personality and sexy. If you’re in the overlap women will want to date and stay in a relationship. If you’re only in one, they might just sleep with you or just be your friend. Trying to frame it as a hierarchy instead of a Venn diagram doesn’t make sense.

The more intricate description is you must have a certain number of points in each category before she’ll be your friend/sleep with you/be in a relationship.

If you’re attractive you might be able to sleep with some as long as your personality isn’t actively repulsive.

On the flip side if you’re actively repulsive in looks people won’t sleep with you no matter how cool you are.

If you’re in the middle of “not unattractive but also not attractive” ie most people, your personality will be the make or break on whether people want to date you.

So I do feel for the guys who are in the bottom 10% of looks where yeah it sucks that no matter how cool you are you’ll have a tough time.

But I feel like most of the guys complaining are in the middle 80% and complaining they’re not having the easy time of the top 10% guys. That’s why they’re complaining “beta bucks” because they’re subject to the “Will you make a good life partner” standard.

If a woman is just looking for a fun time with no commitment she won’t place as much weight in other areas. If she’s looking for a long term commitment she’ll weight things differently.

shadowrangerfs · 2025-08-23T16:32:14+00:00

I mean when you just step back and think from the perspective of women are human beings just like men—all of it makes sense.

people fuck and date people that they think are hot only to find out that maybe the person that they are engaging with has characteristics that aren’t exactly great.

Like men do the same thing in my experience. I know so many dudes fucking and dating crazy chicks who are just aesthetically hot to them who at the same time friend zone good women with great jobs who aren’t as hot.

Human beings do this shit.

Redhotangelxxx · 2025-08-23T17:04:21+00:00

Well, duh? You're my friend because I don't want to date or fuck you. If I wanted to do that, I'd try, and if it didn't work I'd feel awkward and stop hanging out with you. I don't fuck my friends. If I wanted just sex though the important thing isn't that you'd be a good partner, it's that you're hot, flirty, safe enough that you won't harm me/that you will practice safe sex and be respectful of boundaries, and that you're available. It's not like political views or career ambitions determine how well a person fucks.

James_M_Croft · 2025-08-23T16:58:58+00:00

It is simple.

The friendzoned guy does not cut contact when she refuses sex nor make it clear what he is after.

Women do not think they need to do anything to keep you around, so they don't.

She takes the guy's time, energy and money for granted.

It is a harsh lesson many guys need to learn.

Just move on, and learn to actually go for the things you want instead of hiding behind ambiguous nebulous things such as freindship. Lol.

Novadina · 2025-08-23T17:15:46+00:00

I am married to someone who started as a friend, and I have dated other friends before, and I have also rejected friends who asked me out. I can tell you what the major difference was between the friends I wanted to sleep with and the friends I didn’t: they weren’t attractive, and I was not ever desperate enough to want to sleep with unattractive men. Like my husband weighed 180lbs when we got together. A friend I rejected looked like he weighed 400lbs. If you had two friends who wanted to fuck you, and one was a normal weight and one was morbidly obese - you seriously telling me you wouldn’t make the same choice??

None of the men I’ve had casual sex with were obese either, so it’s not like I was somehow being hypocritical about my friends specifically, I am just not able to fuck someone who doesn’t turn me on.

BronsonsMustache · 2025-08-23T16:30:56+00:00

If someone’s not attractive, they’re not attractive. There’s no way to fix that in terms of someone wanting a relationship with you.

Normalsasquatch · 2025-08-23T16:43:00+00:00

I was one of those guys for many years. I read a book that really helped me, though I think it helped spur all the red pill insanity which I think is just an excuse to be a sick, abusive person.

I still value being nice to people, not being a dick etc, but there's gotta be a line where you demand respect. And

The biggest thing is respecting yourself. Your own needs, wants, desires, and knowing that you have something to offer in a relationship.

False-Purple3882 · 2025-08-24T05:08:47+00:00

I like a very specific genre of man both in terms of personality and appearance. I’ve been more willing to budge on the latter when I was looking for relationships but never the former. Men who don’t fit what I’m looking for are just sort of invisible to me

KayRay1994 · 2025-08-23T16:30:45+00:00

Get over it. Idk what else to tell you lol

Lemon_gecko · 2025-08-23T16:30:58+00:00

Valuing personality doesn't mean valuing what you define "nice" personality. People can be nice but lack what's needed to be partners, or to be perceived attractive (yes that about personality too, not just looks)

Alone_Ambition_3729 · 2025-08-23T17:10:39+00:00

I dunno what to tell you buddy its just the nature of human mate selection. Women like talking/venting to patient kind-hearted people, and women like having sex with confident exciting people. Most guys arent both, and so women often get each of the things they want from different sets of people.

All you can do is set healthy boundaries with women who don't see you "that way", and find women to date / have sex with who do see you "that way".

I do agree with you 100% that its unforgivable gaslighting for guys with a lot of female friends venting about their lives to them, to be told to "fix your personality". No, those guys' personality is fine, what they need is to be more ambitious/selfish. Don't necessarily dump those female friends, but make less time for them. Tell them straight up that you're busy with your career, your hobbies, and dating.

AnonPinkLady · 2025-08-24T05:56:52+00:00

I feel like this belongs more on r/iam14andthisisdeep if we’re being honest

Lysa_Bell · 2025-08-23T17:30:16+00:00

Do you have sex with your guy friends? Why do you expect women to have sex with their friends?

Fan_Service_3703 · 2025-08-23T16:31:47+00:00

It's easy as men to misunderstand what women say when they say "that way". Hell, I'm not convinced women understand it themselves.

I've known women who've liked Guy A, let's say he's tall, muscular, good looking etc. Then for whatever reason they broke up or a relationship never happened. Then she meets Guy B who is taller, more muscular, richer, better looking than Guy A, and yet she says "I just don't see him that way", and when asked why, is unable to articulate in any understandable detail what she wanted in Guy A that Guy B didn't have.

Men are unable to understand this, because lets be honest, we see (or have the potential to see) most women who are not outright physically repulsive "that way".

EulenWatcher · 2025-08-23T17:25:30+00:00

My guy friends are all in relationships, and I can point out why we wouldn’t be dating even if they were single. Two are much older than I am, and that’s a deal breaker for me. One is more on a traditional side than I’d be okay with, and our political views aren’t compatible. Another one is gay. Being friends with someone who I had romantic feelings to would be really weird considering I’m married.

I used to be friends with a guy struggling with dating - we wouldn’t date because he had untreated depression, terrible self-esteem, and deeply rooted learnt helplessness. He was a good person, and I wanted to help him, but dating him would be a miserable experience.

ctrl_f_sauce · 2025-08-23T17:45:51+00:00

Have you ever played the trolley problem game beyond the initial problem? When you replace the people on the track you would sacrifice with a person or population that you care about? I ask because for many people it allows them to view their own morals or judgements from something approaching a 3rd persons view. It also typically allows you to disagree with their changing or stable answer with curiosity rather than judgement. Unless they say something totally psychopathic.

Problem #1) Many men, especially young men don’t realize that women typically are nicer than men. This niceness means nothing beyond they are alive and you haven’t crossed a boundary that forces them to try to chase you away.

Problem #2) Many men aren’t aware that women may be weary of their presence and they will be nice to them as a form of preventative de-escalation.

Problem #3) Many men place themselves in the friend zone. They take every opportunity to make sure that she never has the ability to think he is trying to get her romantic attention. Guys who fear the friend zone more than rejection, they never get put in the friend zone unless they asked to be placed there. Or can be avoided by simply asking, “Would you like to go get a smoothie/coffee/drink with just me?” She may reject you, and still be nice. These are the only women you should ever consider persistence with. You should never be persistent with women you never requested romantic attention from. Asking a friend to a dance/party where another mutual friend will be in attendance is not romantic. It has potential to become romantic but your request isn’t clearly romantic.

Problem #4) whether she is aware of it or not, she is pondering raising your genetics. You’re thinking about how great it would be to have a deep conversation this fall. She’s thinking about raising your kid 16 years from now. Imagine going to a dog park to pick a dog to breed with your dog. Are you going to pick the dog that is skittish around other dogs, humans, planes that are flying over head? A fucboi is the dog that greets her when she enters the dog park, then calmly goes back to the game he was playing. The friend zone guy is the dog who nervously wags his rear quarters but never stands up while looking in every direction.

Problem #5) She’s right, you’re not ready to make her happy. You could immediately start taking the brakes off of your personality without being in a relationship with her. Why should she think that a label will make you suddenly be more outgoing or masculine? Take the version of you that you’re imagining would come out if she loved you, and set him free independent of her. This wont likely have an impact on her but it will on all who follow.

Problem #6) Friend zone guys tend to be blinded. This creates a horrible foundation for a relationship. She likely let things slip that you don’t currently remember, but you’ll never forget during the relationship. She may have told you how she dreams of her coworker, and you laughed. When you’re in a relationship, you’ll be mad if she doesn’t quit.

Problem #7) Fairness! The friend zone guys feel like they have been working on the relationship for months or years. Imagine going into a relationship where one person feels like you’re on month 13 and you are on week 1. You just want to see if you can have fun together, and this person is in love. When she attempts to slow things down, he brings up effort that he put in from the friend zone. He doesn’t realize that she wasn’t in a relationship with him during that time. This creates a very weird dynamic that likely won’t be fun and easy.

JonMyMon · 2025-08-23T17:50:16+00:00

People are gonna say it's because those friends aren't good looking enough, but I'd actually argue it's more than that. It's partly because they're not good looking enough, and partly because the woman doesn't view them as masculine enough.

Tall_Actuator_6392 · 2025-08-23T18:00:13+00:00

I think it’s obvious that some people want actual platonic relationships outside of sexual attraction. Fuccbois get girls cause they know how to attract women, so their personality boils down to either they fuck or they’re nothing to each other.

So in some sense, women do value personality. They see guys who are good at spitting game as potential partners (cause it’s literally tricked to do so). While the nicer guys are passive and unthreatening so these guys can be trusted more without the attraction. Which obviously puts them in the friend’s sphere.

fucksiclepizza · 2025-08-23T19:58:11+00:00

Attraction is a very important piece of the puzzle.

WebNew9978 · 2025-08-23T20:33:31+00:00

Well yeah. People want to be romantically involved with someone they’re attracted too. But people also want to hang out with those who they don’t have sort of attraction to. That’s basically the concept of a friendship. The thing about dating and relationships is that are exclusive of sorts. Meaning not every guy will get to be with a particular woman. She’ll only be interested in one.

Now the long term effects of this process is that some men will never be apart of that exclusive think with any woman. They’re just not worthy enough to be exclusive with any particular woman. The common theme among these select men is being very ugly, neurodivergent, and/or being a NiceGuy.

ViolentShallot · 2025-08-23T20:40:45+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL13EeEhgag&t=681s

You need this. Like, need.

ThatBitchA · 2025-08-23T17:04:08+00:00

I'm not attracted to my friends.

Friends are for 3 am phone calls about whoever hurt my feelings.

Friends are for connection and camaraderie.

Friends aren't for fucking. Friends aren't for dating.

Fuckbois aren't friends. Friends with benefits aren't necessarily friends but rather an agreed upon no strings attached sexual relationship.

Idk why the concept of friends is so difficult for some men in this sub.

TheBroke1234 · 2025-08-23T16:54:36+00:00

> instead of talking to women like a regular people

if your goal is to fuck them you won't succeed from just "talking to them like regular people." Yes, you should do that, but you should also show sexual intent early on.

> If women valued personality and connection you’d think they’d at least be above fuccbois.

Nice guys and fuccbois have pretty much the opposite personalities. Like I have never met a fuckboi who is just good looking but also way to nice and meek and only talked to women like normal people... Yes, being just good looking might get you in a relationship, usually a bad one with a domineering woman, it definitely won't be enough to make you a fuckboi though.

Women do value "personality," they just don't value the same personality traits that society more broadly values and the ones that "make you a good person" and are pro-social.

concretecannonball · 2025-08-24T12:15:04+00:00

I have friends who are fuck boys. I have friends who are not fuck boys. I don’t fuck any of them because friends don’t fuck each other.

I don’t know why so many men have trouble understanding the concept that friendship is for companionship and not sex or romance. The feelings I have for my male friends are identical to the feelings I have for my female friends. I do not make any extra considerations for the sexual or romantic market value of either because it doesn’t matter to me.

Being a friend — providing emotional support etc — doesn’t entitle you to a chance at a romantic relationship. It’s the whole point of being a friend to someone.

This isn’t a problem that one particular guy or girl encounters more than the next. It’s just a specific type of guy who bitches about it online.

toasterchild · 2025-08-23T16:41:26+00:00

Men tend to get romantic feelings for women they bond with over emotional things like discussing personal issues or venting.

Women tend to build friendship feelings for people they have these experiences with. Women tend to build romantic feelings for people who they have sexual tension/ interactions with.

It has nothing to do with being "above or below". If you can figure out how to have emotional bonding with some sexually charged interactions mixed in things will likely change a lot for you.

BrutallyHonestTruth9 · 2025-08-23T17:07:56+00:00

Women don't care about friendship and connection. When they say that they're just virtue signalling.

Yes women friendzone guys, but It goes both ways. Women friendzone men who are "beneath them." And men fuckzone women who are "beneath them." The only difference is womens sexual market value is extremely hyperinflated so more women are zoning men then men are zoning women.

Women are just playing the dating game like everyone else. If you're failing thats on you not them.

If you want better results with women, be better.

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uglysaladisugly · 2025-08-23T17:22:24+00:00

Seeing Simeone "like that" is not about ticking boxes of "partner qualities" to me...

petellapain · 2025-08-23T17:39:54+00:00

I always thought women could easily dominate the world if they were willing to use sex strategically on men in their lives that they weren't attracted to, aka the good/ average/ boring simp ones

Kreeps_United · 2025-08-23T18:03:02+00:00

If you were just saying that a man being romantically unsuccessful doesn't mean he's a bad guy, I'd agree. When it comes to attraction, there isn't always a checklist you can accomplish to make the person you're attracted to be attracted to you.

mmmmaize · 2025-08-23T18:29:54+00:00

Why would you be friends with someone you wanna fuck?

Ill-Cook-6879 · 2025-08-23T18:37:39+00:00

So after I left my husband back in the early nineties one of my friends got kind of salty that after a while I took up with a different one of my friends and not him. I'd given him no real reason to expect a relationship but he obviously thought he was first in line.

So I explained that really it could never have been him, I thought he was just too intense. And so he went around for about a month asking friends "Am I too intense? Am I more intense than ( name of the guy I actually got with)" He wasn't particularly happy with the answers he got from our mutual friends. Some of them reminded him of multiple episodes in his life...both romantic and the rest of his life....when he had been too intense for his own good, and they all said yes you are much more intense than (name of the guy I actually got with)

Anyhow this guy I ruled out due to being too intense ended up having a heart attack in his early thirties. Maybe he wouldn't have if he wasn't so...intense.

Many people aren't particularly good at assessing themselves. Even if you explain to them very simply why they aren't suitable and then all their friends back you up...some people don't see it.

Melodic_Structure928 · 2025-08-23T23:30:06+00:00

>Neither do fuccbois and players and women still sleep with them. Why are a lot of nice guys even beneath this when it comes to attraction?

because regradless of what blue pillees say looks and status matter far far more then being a blue pilled nice guy.

Hi-Road · 2025-08-24T01:24:04+00:00

A lot of people find “darker” traits sexier. Probably because of conditioning growing up. It’s for girls and guys though - only reason girls can get away with it more is cause patriarchy is so ingrained in women’s heads that dominance flips a switch

CharmingSama · 2025-08-24T12:47:54+00:00

just like men sometimes think with their dick.. women too can think with their clit.. this is not something that is gender specific.. its human. and thats the thing.. she can have feelings in her heart.. know in her brain.. and still choose to follow her clit.. just like a man and his dick. edit, its about value system.. people act on that and form habits with repeated acts that develop their mindset.. my advice is to not even consider them for ltr.. they have not developed them selves to be any more reliable than a good time but short time.

milinium · 2025-08-25T05:43:18+00:00

There are nice guys who are attractive and there are nice guys who are not. Which would you date?

attendquoi · 2025-08-23T16:41:26+00:00

My guy friends have to meet the same standards as anyone else.

Flightlessbirbz · 2025-08-23T19:38:28+00:00

People want to be friends with people whose personalities they enjoy. People want to sleep with people they find attractive. People want to be in relationships with people whose personalities they enjoy and they also find attractive. It’s not that complicated. Being a good friend isn’t keeping you from getting a romantic relationship. Not being attractive (at least to these particular women) is.

Also, women are not being friends with neckbeards. These guys are generally “guy I started talking to because I felt sorry for him/he seemed nice at first/we both like anime, but now I’m actually a little scared to cut him off” zoned, not friendzoned.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2025-08-23T21:54:55+00:00

"nice guys " never sexualize at the right time and miss their window

Erdenaxela1997 · 2025-08-24T06:55:20+00:00

They're not handsome, tall, or wealthy, but they have good personalities and are interesting people, making them suitable friends.

They're not ugly enough to be considered repulsive, and they tend to be helpful and kind.

He has characteristics that a woman would appreciate in a friend, or as a future husband if everything goes wrong for her, but because he's not physically attractive, there's no romantic prospect.

ThanosSnapsSlimJims · 2025-08-24T18:35:36+00:00

I said it in another thread, that it's extremely simple:

Be hot and have money/resources that women can use. That's all they care about. You could be a criminal, narcissist, sociopath, or other horrible thing. If you have good looks, money, and resources, that's all that matters. It's not your personality, because that doesn't matter unless you're not seen as being in those categories.

Solondthewookiee · 2025-08-23T17:15:18+00:00

inb4 “just beacuse I like him as a friend doesn’t mean he has partner qualities”

"I don't accept the explanation to my claim" does not mean that there isn't an explanation.

Neither do fuccbois and players and women still sleep with them. Why are a lot of nice guys even beneath this when it comes to attraction?

Because people can value different things at different times for different reasons. Also, these discussions always greatly exaggerate the prevalence and presentation of fuck boys and other bad boyfriend archetypes.

but she will never consider him an option even though she says he is a “great guy” who is always there for her.”

If you want a romantic relationship and she doesn't and you can't accept that, then why are you still friends with her?

I mean its easy to dismiss men who struggle to find one date as socially inept “neckbeards” who stare at women’s feet at anime conventions instead of talking to women like a regular people, but these guys have no problems making women their friend. So personality probably isn’t the issue.

I have female friends I would never date in a million years because of their personality.

Superb-Foundations · 2025-08-24T02:40:03+00:00

If you enter a friendship expecting your female friend to date you, then you aren't entering into a friendship genuinely, and you therefore aren't a nice guy.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2025-08-24T13:15:54+00:00

Why do “nice guys?”

Right there: that’s your problem. You think nice means jack shit? Nice isn’t even a personality trait in the sims.

You get 5 traits to put on a sim- name five personality traits you would you put on yourself, now understanding nice doesn’t count.

Go:

If anyone has a hard time being able to do that then they need to ask why wouldn’t they be seen as an NPC when a Sims character will have more personality than they do.

Title	A lot of men who women otherwise love as friends, but never see them “that way”
Author	Crazy_Kray
Upvotes	59
Comments	262
Date	August 23, 2025 4:21 PM UTC (10 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1my5rts/a_lot_of_men_who_women_otherwise_love_as_friends/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/a-lot-of-men-who-women-otherwise-love-as-friends.1560272 https://theredarchive.com/post/1560272

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