No, you shouldn't do whatever you want

zorra666 · 2021-05-03T06:39:28+00:00

I'm in my forties and, during the nineties, the fashion was huge breasts. Lots of women getting surgery to look like Pamela Anderson Roll around to the 00s and so many women getting them reduced. It's crazy. I just can't imagine spending my money on surgically altering my body to fit a mold.

frostedgemstone · 2021-05-03T10:36:05+00:00

Billie usually hits the nail on the head so this was surprising and a bit disappointing honestly. The language and style of dress was definitely giving me libfem vibes

Regarding plastic surgery I definite agree. As a 22 year old I’ve already grown out of a phase where I wanted all sorts of fillers, breast implants etc. Libfems will say that if it makes u feel better about yourself, do the procedure. But how valid is that when it’s such an extrinsic reward. It’s a known fact ppl get addicted to getting more and more surgeries done bc they get used to how they look and hate themselves all over again (libfems argue it’s not about hating themselves, so fine, becoming “unhappy” with themselves). Procedures and surgeries are not without great risk and I can’t see how people are justifying it as part of the modern beauty routine

oceanstains · 2021-05-03T15:05:10+00:00

My heart sank when I saw all my friends posting the lingerie photos of her with “yaaass get it.” Shes 19 years old. I don’t think women should have to cover up but I really appreciated how she did with baggy clothes so men wouldn’t sexualize her (not that that stops them) and now it’s like.....ok.....great. A teenager in lingerie showing the world because...empowering? For who really? The clothes just look too grown for her. I don’t know what point I’m even trying to get across. It just made me disappointed that she decided to conform I guess. Every female music artist is basically naked in every Instagram post. I don’t see men doing the same.

TrixieFriganza · 2021-05-03T09:22:50+00:00

Specially if you're in young and in your 20s feels very stupid to do plastic surgery as fashions chances, go to the gym instead. Butt inplants is a good example as it feels very invasive and fashion could chance to small behinds instead. Both butt and breast implants feels too more like surgeries you people to please or to get picked by men even if they say they do it for themselves. I could never specially do surgeries like that at least, so happy I'm pleased with those parts of my body, I don't care if it's not attractive to men.

MadamLeFay · 2021-05-03T14:48:21+00:00

It's always supposedly "empowering" to take clothes off... why isn't it "empowering" to keep clothes on?

AprilMoon9 · 2021-05-03T06:49:37+00:00

That’s choice feminism for you. I’m glad you got into FDS at such a young age, boy I wish I’d discovered this sub at your age. My life would be unrecognizable today.

Billie has had a sheltered life and the only feminism she knows is probably the libfem kind. I hope she grows out of it. I don’t think she’ll ever be a radfem though. She’s just saying a bunch of libfem talking points. Hopefully she doesn’t go down the sexually appealing to men = empowerment route. But my hopes aren’t high considering the industry she’s in.

Subject_Ticket · 2021-05-03T07:23:50+00:00

In regards to plastic surgery, 90% of people who get plastic surgery are women. I think that tells us everything; it's an oppressive strategy the patriarchy uses to control women and keep us in mental prisons.

If it's just a choice why don't men choose to do it?

doorknocking101 · 2021-05-03T06:59:43+00:00

It’s not really touching on your super valid discussion on what she said about plastic surgery but I will say I was a bit sad to see the photoshoot. Although Billie definitely emphasized her autonomy in doing the shoot, I can’t help but think that it may have been, in part, a response to the harsh criticism she faced regarding her body in those paparazzi photos that were spread a little while ago. Almost to prove that she’s got a “good” body, even though her body in those previous photos looked perfectly normal and gorgeous.

I’m also close to her age, just slightly younger and it’s honestly a bit disheartening to see someone I looked up to so much for not being pressured into sexualizing herself finally succumbing to those pressures (even if she claims that was not her intention in releasing these pictures).

MissouriBlue · 2021-05-03T06:48:30+00:00

I’ve got a schnoz that’s pretty impressive... if someone is dating or not dating me because of my honker, then they’re really not the guy for me. LOL!

I had braces as a kid. My teeth were a mess so my parents paid the value of a new, mid-grade vehicle and I endured five years of pain and bloody mouth from the wires and brackets.

There are some things that are worth fixing and some things that just seem a bit too tied to some elusive “perfection”.

I don’t follow pop culture or television or movie stars or musicians. Their lives are so far removed from reality that I find nothing in common with them. I have more in common with the Roman Emperors than I do with current culture... (👸🏻)

ucompost · 2021-05-03T11:41:04+00:00

Cant wait for all the men I’ve heard call her weird and gross to suddenly be big fans of hers. They slut shamed her about lyrics of sleeping with dads but they’re happy to ogle her body openly now.

(Working on getting these men out of my life for my own well being...)

Phoenix__Rising2018 · 2021-05-03T13:53:28+00:00

Plastic surgery is pushed on women because it serves men. Almost all of the surgeons are men and all the people benefiting from it are men. Mem even benefit from women having low self-esteem and feeling like they have to have surgery to be better and more worthy. I have heard of far too many men badgering their girlfriends to get giant fake tits or even have their labia cut off.

There absolutely should be legal limits and restrictions on plastic surgery.

nymira-1 · 2021-05-03T08:47:51+00:00

Always find it fascinating that vacuum saying it means nothing in my language but anyway choices are not made inside of a vacuum…..

indisfury · 2021-05-03T12:33:04+00:00

Breastfeeding for years left me with a pair socks, having them cut off is the best thing I ever did, only regret is waiting so long to do it... love my itsy A cups... and the best part? never have to endure an underwire again.. never say never ladies.

Myplummms · 2021-05-03T15:47:18+00:00

I find it interesting that every time society says clothes are “empowering” to wear they pander to the male gaze. I think it’s more empowering when women wear trends they like that men hate (like high waisted jeans - you know those lists online 🤦‍♀️). The “doing you for you” message is always tainted by the patriarchy in some way

Myplummms · 2021-05-03T15:49:16+00:00

This is how degenerate Hollywood is towards young women. They build these women up to be cool/girl next door, but by time they reach 18, they’re pushing them to show more and more skin. Next thing you know, Billie will be in the tabloids the way they treated Miley Cyrus. They love to see beautiful women fall from a pedestal

Positively-Occult · 2021-05-03T16:27:28+00:00

I took some pics yesterday and my undereye circles looked out of control. I started thinking about filler panicking that age is coming for me. I started looking at pics of me from 10 years ago and realized

Age is indeed coming for me, I’m 31 not 20 and I look more mature
I was born with undereye circles. I’ve always had them. It’s literally how my face is built.

I actually think they’re beautiful and give my face amazing character, but they don’t look good in pictures in certain lighting at certain angles. But they look good at other angles and IRL.

I realized that people tamper with their faces/bodies more because were constantly taking and posting pictures.

Narcissus had to be at the edge of a pool to drown, we don’t need the pool to drown. Constant access to our faces/bodies unnaturally frozen at odd angles is creating so many insecurities because of our sensitive wiring.

All animals want to look good, clean, bright, it’s genetic obviously. Body mods are literally part of human nature, but technology has taken us to a uniquely dark place.

HappyCoconutty · 2021-05-03T16:36:39+00:00

My mom will be 61 this year. A former trophy wife, her identity was built around how good she looked. After early detection of breast cancer and mastectomy, she got breast implants, and since then she went down a spiral of plastic surgery, especially after she divorced my cheating dad. She got her butt done, liposuction, and nose job. Each requiring longer to recover from and a lot of pain and inflammation. She is not interested in dating again, but it is obvious that she is really struggling with her notion of losing her looks (and therefore her value as a human). She has a high achieving career and wonderful friends but her self image is in the dumps from the messages she received in her teens and early 20s. Further reinforced by marrying a man who valued her primarily for her looks only, and otherwise wanted to be left alone to go hunting and sporting with his rich guy friends.

I can see that none of it brought her long term happiness or self love because the root cause and trauma wasnt addressed. I don’t think I will get surgery, but because of what I saw my mom go thru, I really want to keep my daughter away from social media till 18 (like most Tech ceos do with their kids).

vforvendetta87 · 2021-05-03T15:48:53+00:00

What I want to know is, why do these famous women feel compelled to follow the crowd? Literally every notable singer and actress has gotten half-naked for the world to see. What is it for exactly? Is it an initiation into the industry; meaning you won’t get anywhere if the entire world hadn’t seen your breasts and ass first? It’s so predictable that my eyes roll when I see yet another fresh singer or actress get naked for everyone to see, as if over 7 billion other humans have the same parts.

I’m truly baffled and want to know why.

DMmechipsoman · 2021-05-03T14:32:33+00:00

Amazing how the actions that are meant to be so empowering for women, also happen to be tailored for the male gaze.

acrosstheoceanin1984 · 2021-05-03T08:48:48+00:00

I'm quite disappointed with Billie Eilish's photoshoot. It's sad to see that she had to give in and end up sexualising herself. It seems inevitable in retrospect, because that is what patriarchy demands of us as women.

Every woman on the planet is unhappy with some feature of her body and believes changing it through plastic surgery will satisfy her. It's easy to think that altering your appearance is all you need. The truth is, if it isn't your nose, it will be your stomach, or your breasts or your butt. There's always something.

We're all dying anyway and beauty trends are volatile asf. Why not try to be happy with ourselves.

^{P.S: Not to brag or anything but, I actually think I'm gorgeous and perfect. ;})

likearealreptile · 2021-05-03T17:09:18+00:00

"It’s about taking that power back, showing it off, and not taking advantage with it,” she said. “I’m not letting myself be owned anymore.”

my heart is broken. no woman has ever claimed REAL power by “showing skin” and getting plastic surgery. that’s not power.

vee_aye_aye_aye · 2021-05-03T07:48:17+00:00

You're absolutely right. However it'a not just Billie Eilish who feeds it. On youtube there's a popular channel called Qoves Image Consultants. He dissects and breaks faces down to explain what makes them ugly or attractive. It made me very insecure for a while.

Even contouring is suspicious in my view.

LostInContentment · 2021-05-03T13:25:06+00:00

There’s a YA book series called The Uglies. It takes place in a dystopian future and cosmetic surgery is one of the themes. Basically, you’re ugly until you come of age and get your cosmetic surgery and become “a pretty”. Mind control of the masses through cosmetic ideals was not subtle. It was very interesting. I highly recommend it.

glowmilk · 2021-05-03T09:14:03+00:00

Even as a liberal feminist, I was always vehemently against cosmetic surgery. I couldn’t understand the conflicting message of body positivity where everyone is beautiful and desirable but yet, if you wanna get cosmetic surgery because you think your nose is too big, go for it! Wanna get a couple ribs removed so your waist is smaller? Sure, it’s your choice!! Wanna risk your life to get a bigger butt so you have better Instagram pics? Yeah go for it!!

How can the same people tell others to love themselves while encouraging cosmetic surgery? Most times, people don’t even feel “fixed” by their surgery either, because their insecurities and body dysmorphia are deeper than what can be seen on the surface. A woman will get one procedure done, then continually find something else she wants to change about herself. It’s not healthy at all and definitely not something that should be encouraged. Every decision one makes for themselves isn’t inherently good. It seems so obvious when you say it, but yet, this seems to be the narrative that is accepted.

I used to hate scrolling through Instagram and seeing body positivity one minute and before and after surgery/procedure pics the next. It’s so warped. This is why I try to practice body neutrality, personally. I don’t have to do things to feel “sexy” to love my body how it is, but on the other hand, I don’t have to be overly critical to meet society’s standards either. Women are conditioned to think too much about their bodies either way, while most men just wake up and go about their day without giving their image a second thought.

duchesspum · 2021-05-03T07:40:48+00:00

If the society let women accept ourselves for how we naturally are like with men, the whole "beauty" industry will go bakrupt with their make up, hair dyes, creams, etc. As well as a big part of the aesthetical surgery. Creating false defects on women and offering "solutions for our needs" is one of the pillars of capitalism. Needs that obviosuly mean to fit in what straight males consider a "sexy woman".

Human-No-98757037372 · 2021-05-03T17:17:32+00:00

I have zero issues with cosmetic surgery. I have every issue with people going through painful and expensive surgery in an effort to satisfy society’s fickle opinions on beauty. I think realistically the number of people, primarily women, who are getting cosmetic surgery due to negative motivation’s (bullying, low self-esteem etc.) is vastly higher than people who are getting it just for themselves and from that perspective I agree with OP that Billies broad strokes statement lacks nuance and discernment around the various social pressures that contribute to people “doing whatever they want” with their bodies.

Far_from_deceived · 2021-05-03T17:56:42+00:00

I went to search for the picture. I didn’t know who she was. I saw a women with a corset and a leather like top 🙄 by Vogue: Gay stylists who design ridiculous, BDSM like, shameful, degrading, clothes for women? 🤡

Sheila Jeffreys talks about all that on Beauty and Misogyny.

ucompost · 2021-05-03T11:46:51+00:00

The Billie thing yea kinda hurt. I’m older than her but her baggy clothes reminded me of myself at that age and I found it validating that she ruled the world with her music in clothes I used to hide in. Not only that but big labels made clothes to suite her style showing that the clothes don’t matter but the fame does.

So to see her do this at 19 just reaffirms my experience I had of “now you’re legal take your clothes off for money or no one will pay attention to you” when I stupidly decided to be a stripper right out of college.

Hhjjuuy · 2021-05-03T16:08:54+00:00

I think doing whatever you want is fine as a premise, but in context the issue is with knowing what you want in a society that is based on conditioning you into a position of subjugation.

rightioushippie · 2021-05-03T09:00:18+00:00

This sort of reminds me how much criticism Kim Kardashian has gotten for fundamentally saying what Billie is saying. When someone blond and they can manipulate comes along whose working for them anc not herself, suddenly it reads different.

fdssavedmylife · 2021-05-03T14:04:14+00:00

I’m embarrassed to say that despite being a decade older than she is, I actually thought Billie seemed mature and somewhat wise. It’s ironic that this move was an attempt to make her seem more grown up and self possessed, but it actually shows how young, naive, and eager to impress she is. The quotes from her make it obvious that she’s very insecure and think this will “shut up the haters” somehow.

I do worry for her, but it’s extremely dangerous to encourage young women to get plastic surgery. Acceptance of body modification is one thing, but it shouldn’t be touted as an inherently positive or empowering action. I’m also really sad to hear she’s promoting a very one dimensional “blonde bombshell” style as being more “womanly” than her previous style. I agree with other posts and comments I’ve seen that say she’s likely alienating many of her young fans and potentially alienating them from what it means to feel feminine without adhering to societal norms.

PigeonCities · 2021-05-03T12:09:22+00:00

this!!! and just a note to say that I don’t entirely blame other women for carrying on with this narrative. The only “choice” we have to face is conformity to standards or social rejection, and us young women are especially vulnerable to all that. I blame the plastic surgery industry and the porn industry and hollywood for pushing these unattainable versions of womanhood and saying “hey, if you dish out a couple of thousand, you can look like her and not be ostracised!” Nevermind that there are things like breast implant illness that can cause a myriad of complications. Surgery is NEVER 100% safe, and that’s why it’s used generally as a last resort in medical practices. Women, as a class, are being sent under the knife because our fears of being undesirable surpass our fear of having surgical complications. Think about how fucked up that is!!! Like Gail Dines said, if every woman woke up tomorrow and decided to love themselves, how many industries would go out of business? The insecurity that was implanted on us since birth is a multi-billion dollar making machine. My rule of thumb: if someone makes profit from your “empowerment”....... how empowered are you, REALLY?

the-lonely-spirit · 2021-05-03T15:23:25+00:00

You were the chosen one Billie!!

I'm so disappointed UGH.

I don't listen to her music but was pleased that she didn't sexualize herself...(or rather get pressured to do so by the men that run the music industry)...but whoops, barely legal and still a child in some ways and she pops out and says it's eMpOwErInG. UGH

goldiebaby · 2021-05-03T17:17:35+00:00

Yes! Finally someone who has a normal head on her shoulders. All of this toxic body positivity needs to stop. No, you don't need to get fillers and surgery to feel better. Get therapy and work on deriving happiness from other things - family, friends, hobbies, pets, even your job.

The last time I railed against surgery on this sub, I was downvoted for my stance. Women commenting that they love the attention from strangers when they fillers etc. How the fck is this normal? Seeking validation from strangers?

The last time I said that I have never met someone with healthy self-esteem who gets fillers and surgery. I 100% stand by my statement. I know so many older women who age normally and gracefully. They are my role models.

For those who talk about subtle botox and fillers - no, it's never subtle. Your friends agree with you to spare your self-esteem. They don't want you to spiral because you are already in a bad place.

luvmyvulvaxoxo · 2021-05-03T14:15:06+00:00

Lol holy shit. The number of women in this thread defending their desire to conform to men’s beauty standards is unreal.

Women wanting small nips and tucks to “feel better about themselves” isn’t something we should ignore.

Latter_Ad_6840 · 2021-05-03T13:18:16+00:00

In our high school year there was this very beautiful girl, like easily the prettiest in the whole school. She became an instagram influencer and she's had so much plastic surgery she barely looks like her original self anymore and she advertises plastic surgeons and dermatologists almost every month or so. That's how high the bar is, being naturally beautiful is no longer enough, adult celebrities of all ages have had plastic surgery to enhance something even if it was just a small adjustment. It's seriously disheartening.

fairywakes · 2021-05-03T20:44:36+00:00

Well stated, OP. I wish I accepted myself at 20 the way you did. Took me a few years (I’m 23) to get there.

I have a feeling her PR or whatever media managers that control her life are certainly up to this. The illusion they display of this behavior being liberating for young women is deeply concerning.

hologothic · 2021-05-03T23:34:45+00:00

I'm really confused by what Billie Eilish is doing right now, to be honest. I was totally on board for her whole 'fuck you I wear baggy clothes so you can't judge my body' stance, because we don't exist as ornaments for the male gaze.

Not long ago she released a video about body image, body shaming etc. and people claimed she was being too provocative because she was in a tank top in a pool. It seemed to go against her previous message but I was like okay, she can do whatever she wants, and it was still pretty thought provoking. So many of the comments on the video were by men that said things like 'nice tits', which is exactly the type of attitude she was trying to make a commentary about.

Now she's posing in lingerie in Vogue. Yes, we as women are free to do what we want with our own bodies, but this is the complete opposite of what she's been loudly proclaiming for years about how oversexualized women are. Knowing how she is this might be her own way of telling scrotes to go fuck themselves, that she's a beautiful strong as hell goddess they could never hope to get, but I don't really know how to feel about this new direction she's taking compared to the message she was presenting before. She's brilliant regardless and I'll always admire her amazing attitude and talent, but at the same time it's like... why are you trying to get any type of reaction out of men sis? Posing in lingerie in a magazine isn't empowerment, men are just gonna use it as material to jack off to and tell themselves it's okay that they're 30- and 40-somethings masturbating to a 19 year old because she willingly posed for that photoshoot. Can we please go back to the weird but cool baggy clothes aesthetic?

Geocities_SEO_Expert · 2021-05-03T08:34:35+00:00

Michael Jackson used to be a walking billboard for the dangers of plastic surgery. If he hadn't accidentally ODed on some drug in 2009, you can only imagine how badly his facial surgeries would have aged.

ashcantcatchabreak · 2021-05-03T21:16:50+00:00

All surgery is life-threatening. You take your life in your hands every time you undergo anesthesia. It is NOT some simple, silly and insignificant thing to undergo surgery, of any kind, especially elective plastic surgery which is not done for any purpose other than cosmetics.

The_Pyramidion · 2021-05-03T12:07:32+00:00

I'm going to cut her some slack because she's only 19 and we were all shitheads at that age, but I hope she comes around to see that it's easy to blubber about body positivity when you're a conventionally attractive, able-bodied, white, teenage celebrity who has an army of vogue photoshop experts at her disposal.

janeaustenfan99 · 2021-05-03T14:28:54+00:00

Advertising lack of self control like it’s cool. Brainwashing garbage.

straighthairgreece · 2021-05-04T02:46:52+00:00

The photoshoot looked so.... unnatural.

Delilahh12345 · 2021-05-05T05:56:49+00:00

Also she said a lot of stuff about how good it felt to be desired and that she was desirable and it was like uggghhh. Yes, it's important in your personal life to feel desired by your partner, but deriving self-worth from the desire of men in general is patriarchal brainwashing...

Hikari3747 · 2021-05-03T14:12:22+00:00

Plastic surgery should be reserved for health related surgery like breast reduces, or post breast cancer breast job (if you so chose to), restoring feature that were damaged in a bad accident, or if a person was born unique and wants to "be normal" and fix a cleft lip. Modifying perfectly good body parts that aren't effecting your psychical health in any way, is ridiculous.

Yes, your mental health is super important, but you don't need Dolly Parton size boobs to be happy. TRUST me, you will be miserable with those jugs hurting your shoulder and back. Cute bras don't exist unless you pay a lot of money and most trendy cloth will never fit without going to a tailors and spending more money. Your mental health will get worst because of hardship that come with larger boobs. Be happy with what you have, because the grass is always greener on the other side.

I was "curse" with very large breast and a big butt because of my heritage. I was alway made fun of and called all the names in the book including bra stuffer despite trying everything to hide my boobs and never wearing fork fitted clothes. I had thick eyebrows too and everyone wanted me to make them pencil thin because that was the fashion.

Now everyone love my thick eye brows, and tell me it's a waste to reduce my breast size, because they are beautiful. My back and shoulders begs to defer. I have to work out to strengthen my body and wear grandma looking bras to hold the girls up.

Beauty trends change all the time from one extreme to another. You can't never be in top without become as plastic as Barbie her self.

thatoneladythere · 2021-05-03T09:46:00+00:00

There are so many cosmetic surgeries that are done for quality of life, though. For one, mine. I had double jaw surgery last year. It opened my airway, finally allowed me to chew normally, eliminated a lot of pain and discomfort, and also yes I'm much happier with the overall appearance of my face.

I'm also thinking of people who lose tremendous amounts of weight who then get skin removal surgery. These people have so much skin they're in pain and get rashes. Or people with gigantic breasts that really hurt their back, so they have reductions to live normal lives. People with deviated septums that require septoplasty for normal function. Older persons with eyelid skin that droops so much it obscures their vision!

Yes, plenty of people do plastic/cosmetic surgeries for the "wrong" reason. I think frowning on the industry as a whole is a bit naive, though. You can never really know someone's motivation to get their surgery unless you're them.

AssociateDear6001 · 2021-05-04T13:27:52+00:00

I love Billie, but no "choice" (e.g., plastic surgery, so called sex work) is made in a vacuum.

AnKeWa · 2021-05-04T13:48:08+00:00

I won't dig into that poor girl because I honestly think she's been receiving way too much pressure and hatred in her life.

I am just a bit disappointed because I really respected the hell out of her for rejecting this whole "running around half naked is EMPOWERING" narrative - and now she gave in to the pressure. I mainly feel sorry that she was forced into whatever made her think that she had to do this.

Determinedblonde · 2021-05-03T11:38:05+00:00

I liked her baggy clothes look. She better not be ditching it 😒

chainsawbobcat · 2021-05-03T12:27:42+00:00

You are right. In her defence, because the girl became famous as a child and still is a child, she has probably just seen and heard people talk about her body ad naseum. Her style when she first came out reminded me of TLC when they first came out wearing baggy overalls, and Billie has stayed with a very unique style that has generally not been provocative at all. Now they get you to do a cover for vogue and if course it's going to be sexy bc she's 19 now- and I think we all go through this at some point where we want to claim our body, but you quickly realize that no, dressing sexy is not emptying because men are gross and they don't care about you in a baggy shirt or tiny dress. So I guess my final thoughts are, there is no need to put weight into what she is saying. She's still growing up, she just happens to have a huge platform for her opinion.

Talismantis · 2021-05-04T19:07:37+00:00

ASPIRE TO BODY NEUTRALITY. APPRECIATION OF THE WHOLE OVER FETISHIZATION OF THE BODY.

SORRY FOR CAPS. ISSUE WITH SCREEN

so_lost_im_faded · 2021-05-03T08:20:15+00:00

I have a small double chin while being skinny. I'm pretty sure it will never be fashionable and I'd like it surgically adjusted. My takeaway from this is that people (women) shouldn't be shamed for deciding to alter their body, no matter their reasons. Some people have plastic surgery so they like themselves better, not because it's currently fashionable.

drfuzzysocks · 2021-05-03T09:56:31+00:00

[removed]

Theboredshrimp · 2021-05-03T12:43:25+00:00

[removed]

Title	No, you shouldn't do whatever you want
Author	Witchy-Woods
Upvotes	643
Comments	161
Date	May 3, 2021 6:33 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/n3pmzy/no_you_shouldnt_do_whatever_you_want/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/no-you-shouldnt-do-whatever-you-want.759430 https://theredarchive.com/post/759430

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