Apparently bitching about other people's work is more important than the actual work. (x-post gaming)

Soulhunter4444 · 2013-07-26T05:46:18+00:00

Also noted in the comments is that writers purposely rank people incorrectly in these "top X people" lists.

The actual fans get pissed off, show other fans, now the site has tons of traffic.

Exactly as planned.

ToOurEnd · 2013-07-26T09:09:45+00:00

The list put Notch higher than Gabe Newell.

It couldn't be more skewed or foolish.

seanyfarrell · 2013-07-26T04:27:40+00:00

As a game designer - That article didn't have to do anything but Carmack at 61th place. I didn't need to see any more.

geengaween · 2013-07-26T02:46:08+00:00

Hasn't everyone realized that Sarkeesian is just a giant fraud yet? If a COD dev can get hate mail and death threats for nerfing some guns in an update, it puts the abuse Sarkeesian recieved in a little more perspective. It's painfully obvious she deliberately baited the trolls for attention. People on the internet will send death and rape threats to anyone and for anything, it doesn't make her a victim of anything but her own lust for notoriety.

shoegazer666 · 2013-07-26T06:40:53+00:00

Ugh, stop talking about her please.

TracyMorganFreeman · 2013-07-26T02:48:18+00:00

Frankly, Anita's critiques are at their best played out/already made before, and often superficial with little deep analysis beyond the ontological boogeyman of Patriarchy^TM. Anita is just very good at selling her product, which isn't surprising given she majored in communications, which combined with her being reasonably attractive makes for an ironic twist on the assent that is given to her.

tone_ · 2013-07-26T11:27:47+00:00

So basically she's been complaining? It doesn't even mention any actual achievements.

She has literally just been complaining that a male market driven industry is targeting mainly males...?

rickytickytappy · 2013-07-26T14:57:24+00:00

Hmm....it's not like Carmack invented the FPS genre or anything...

grumble_rumble · 2013-07-26T06:48:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Miracle_Fruit · 2013-07-26T02:12:52+00:00

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ENTP · 2013-07-26T06:00:30+00:00

*disingenuously and deceitfully bitching about other people's work

2013-07-26T13:50:59+00:00

John Carmack is a legend. That list is a fucking abomination.

202j · 2013-07-26T02:43:43+00:00

Can we have the context please? A link to the full list. Was it ordered by public votes, by committee, by the personal opinion of a journalist? How reputable in the gaming community is the publication? Does anyone take it seriously?

And can a gamer give us some context about John Carmack? I'm not a gamer, but the name is familiar to me because I used to work with a fan of his, and was left with the impression that Carmack is like a combination between Donald Knuth and Chuck Norris.

kungfukai · 2013-07-26T05:47:12+00:00

I'm ashamed that half of the comments on that thread are protecting her, calling anyone sexist that thinks that Sarkeesian is full of bullshit.

White Knights, White Knights everywhere.

Funcuz · 2013-07-26T04:31:34+00:00

If she actually had an argument and had come up with a solution then I could understand her inclusion on this list.

As it stands , she's her own second asshole.

2013-07-26T12:31:41+00:00

ORLY?

WHAT GAME DID SHE MAKE?

esantipapa · 2013-07-26T15:25:40+00:00

Any list that puts Carmac at 61 deserves to be disregarded outright, I bet they put Ken Levine at 73 or some bullshit.

Remerez · 2013-07-26T13:55:55+00:00

I find it funny that she is pictured in an arcade. Arcades were men centric areas not because it excluded women but because women voluntarily viewed arcades as wastes of their time. Thats why in the 90's game makers created many games for women in the arcades and even before that most games in arcades had women in important roles or their was no gender to speak of(Is the pilot in galaga male or female? Who cares). Great games like Aero fighter had female pilots that could do some serious damage and lets not forget the women in all the fighter games that could kill any man in the game.

Its ignorant to believe that arcades were havens for male chauvinism when simply playing the games in the arcades proved otherwise.

here is a list of games with female characters that were amazing

Ms. Pacman (1981)
Lady Bug (1981)
Kangaroo (1982)
Mrs. Dynamite (1982)
Gauntlet (1985)
Dark Adventure (1987)
Rampage (1986)

And what about console games

Metroid (1986)
Sabotuer II: Avenging Angel (1987)
Final Fantasy (1987)
Super Mario Bros. 2 (1988)
The Guardian Legends (1989)
Arrow Flash (1990)
Xenomorph (1990)

and so much more.

gaming was a mans club because women excluded themselves, now all of a sudden they want back in and they blame men for why they were not therein the first place

2013-07-26T12:01:02+00:00

She literally disgusts me, giant fraud shouldn't be even in the same Universe as someone such as Carmack. She should be a fucking nobody.

DownShatCreek · 2013-07-26T05:59:37+00:00

The most creative and currently most relevant aspect of the entertainment industry, that's also the most profitable, must just be dying for the help.

saint2e · 2013-07-26T14:00:22+00:00

Well, Roger Ebert was a critic, and he had a lot of clout... Not saying I agree with the ranking (I don't, btw), just reminding people not to dismiss the concept out of hand.

sprankton · 2013-07-26T15:49:19+00:00

Critics can have impacts on the medium they critique. That makes them "important" in the world of that medium. If her critiques have had a bigger impact than the work of those below her, she's important.

Seeing all this "feminism sucks" bullshit is getting old. This sub is supposed to be about equality.

Drachri93 · 2013-07-26T04:03:20+00:00

Wow. Where is this list? I cannot believe that A) Carmack would be ranked so low. He was integral to a lot of gaming's most influential titles, like Doom, Quake, etc.

And Sarkeesian is, in my opinion, one of the few people who deserves the amount of hate they get on the internet. She perpetuates the myth that the way to make an industry better is to bitch about it rather than to create.

Theres teenage girl developers on kickstarter with cool ideas for games getting good funding for their age (this one 9 year old girl got 25k for her project http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/susanwilson/9-year-old-building-an-rpg-to-prove-her-brothers-w

That is amazing and inspiring. If you truly want to make the gaming industry better for women, then get to work. Make a game. Make an app. If you are a journalist, you can cover a game you think is innovative. There are 99 ways to add your own vision to the rapidly evolving gaming environment, but being a lazy, whining leech is not one of them. The industry isn't going to change to fit your niche vision of "how things should be." There's tons of starving developers out there trying to make good games - feminists who donated to Anita Saarkesian should be ashamed for choosing to give their dollar to her rather than to the million other kickstarter projects that would help actual developers.

cooledcannon · 2013-07-26T14:49:42+00:00

Why is the lack of women in gaming a problem? Is the lack of men in tanning salons a problem as well?

mrdalts · 2013-07-26T06:19:58+00:00

God, Anita sucks.

Voctr · 2013-07-26T07:21:20+00:00

[...]the lack of female representation in the industry is a serious problem for games' ongoing development as a serious cultural form.

What the fuck am I even reading here, I think so far we're doing pretty well without them. It's so annoying that there's always this need for people to go "oh we need more women in this field! its unfair look how male dominated this field is!". Especially in the games industry, who is stopping women from making games? Nobody! There's plenty of indie devs making games.

Maybe people should be in the industry, and they probably would be, based on their talent/ideas/skills not based on "just because there's not that many women".

Also these top 100 lists are always rage inducing. The top people should be those who laid the foundation for the future of games. But I guess that #1 is probably some CoD dev or w/e.

AndTheSonsofDisaster · 2013-07-26T12:49:38+00:00

Who did this list and do they have any kind of real knowledge about the video game world?

Nutz76 · 2013-07-26T13:36:50+00:00

That is some grade-A bullshit. What's this from? As a hardcore gamer most of my life I've got some words for whoever came up with that list.

iaacp · 2013-07-26T13:39:00+00:00

This is especially angering for the fact that John Carmack is a computer graphics pioneer, not just a game designer. Games wouldn't look like they do now without him. It's like placing Dennis Ritchie below Hannah Montana on a 'contributions to humanity' list.

datsupportguy · 2013-07-26T14:23:15+00:00

Probably what pisses me off more than the clearly erroneous placement of Carmack, is there's no mention of any of the shit that actually made him influential.

Rage was meh at best.

malimuizz · 2013-07-26T17:04:29+00:00

I don't know whether this has been posted but I'll leave this here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCKUQHSRL4s

gigglepuffkidd · 2013-07-26T18:32:30+00:00

this has got to be a joke. carmack is by far one of the most influential people int he gaming industry. his professional attitude should be strived for and his accomplishments are nothing short of legendary.

how he wasn't ranked in the top 3 is fucking beyond me. it jus goes to show the complete lack of understanding of basic vocabulary. influential in this context HAS to be referring to the last year and also HAS to be referring to google page rank. there is no other explanation. it is an excuse for the writers to not have to do any work.

ultratarox · 2013-07-26T12:40:54+00:00

I've never understood the rage she incites. I've watched her videos, she makes some interesting points.

I think you can want to see women portrayed better in media without being against Men's Rights.

Pecanpig · 2013-07-26T04:38:18+00:00

I'm still raging from this...

JasinNat · 2013-07-26T14:24:40+00:00

I don't see why Anita Sarkessian is evil. What exactly is she doing that is wrong? YMMV, but, I'll be the beacon of rationality her arguments are flawed but how is it she is the sinister villain seeking to ruin gaming?

j5c077 · 2013-07-26T19:11:28+00:00

oh god this shit is retarded. what about the common depiction of men?

automatedresponse · 2013-07-26T16:42:11+00:00

Protip for females who want to get ahead:

Get an entry level at a gaming company. You'll get promoted just because you have a vag.

I used to work for Epic games and they promoted this tester directly up to this production/relations job for no reason. She had no formal training or technical background, she was just semi-attractive and.. female.

Westboro_Fap_Tits · 2013-07-26T05:41:46+00:00

This is not a list of "most important people in gaming ever" because no such list would ever put Carmack outside of top 10. This got me looking what it actually is.

The actual list (on a single page) is "The 100 most important people in the world of Xbox". The article actually talks about most influential people, "who will shape the next generation," and it starts with the question "Who are the most important people in the world of Xbox today?"

Today.

Sadly, today Mrs. Sarkeesian is more influential than many developers who are doing "actual work." It's okay for a critic to have more influence than an artist, but here's what makes it a men's rights issue: a critic of some trends completely unrelated to development, gameplay, or even economic and social aspects of massive online RPGs becomes more influential by villifying and victimizing men and their impact on gaming industry.

But we have a movement to change that, don't we? So let's stop "bitching about other people's work"--and by work I mean the diligent journalism that helped us highlight the perversion in how people rise to power--and keep doing actual work on this issue.

DeLaMoncha · 2013-07-26T14:45:12+00:00

Getting tired of all you people hatin on someone for adressing an important issue with games. Bet you'd hate on black people not wanting to sit in the back of the bus if you'd been around back then.

MandyJones · 2013-07-26T19:33:30+00:00

She doesn't even play the games! She makes us girl gamers look bad.

catfingers64 · 2013-07-26T04:44:24+00:00

How is this related to men's rights?

Offensive_Brute · 2013-07-26T11:16:38+00:00

Gamers dont give a fuck about feminism. Make the female the hero if you want, just make sure shes pretty and her tits and ass jiggle when she runs.

ptgrenville · 2013-07-26T15:10:26+00:00

raaaaape!

VideoLinkBot · 2013-07-26T12:50:44+00:00

Here is a list of video links collected from comments that redditors have made in response to this submission:

Source Comment	Score	Video Link
ILoveHate	30	Reset Button: Megatextures
ILoveHate	30	John Carmack unveils Rage engine running 60ips an iPhone 4 but works pretty well on EDGE version
rafajafar	16	Men not marrying? How deep does "the problem" go?
texas_ironman93	10	Archer ... RAMPAGE!
5eraph	9	GAME ON: It Ain't Over
lcarsos	1	I will burn you Sherlock BBC

Freakity · 2013-07-26T20:45:41+00:00

Who wrote this shit list so I don't accidentally go to their site and give them views?

Dadof2kids · 2013-08-01T21:45:22+00:00

You people: Wah wah wah women talking makes me sad.

BallsOfSorrow · 2013-07-26T04:20:33+00:00

[permanently deleted]

ultratarox · 2013-07-26T17:31:12+00:00

Just when I thought everyone had it all wrong about you, MensRights.

I've really enjoyed a lot of the content here. I agree with so much of the Mens Rights Movement, but this frothing and raging over one woman who points out that women aren't portrayed well in video games - well, good bye. Displays like this thread are why people don't take you seriously - you must learn to respect those you disagree with, or they'll never respect you.

Grapeban · 2013-07-26T03:52:52+00:00

1) If we're talking right now, yeah, possibly Sarkeesian is more important than Carmack. id is starting to wane, and graphics and technology are taking a backseat to discussions about things like social justice and inclusivity.

Look at the text in the image. Carmack's is talking exclusively about RAGE, and Sarkeesians is about the Tropes Vs Women in Gaming (their respective current projects). I'd argue the latter got people talking far more.

2)

Apparently bitching about other people's work is more important than the actual work.

Yes. That's why we often say some journalists are more important than some politicians.

People who criticise encourage art to go forward. They are a large part of the reason why media does not stagnate, because they can relay the people's demands to the developers, the developers works to the people, and give more intellectual criticism as well.

Edit: Also, this list put Leslie Benzies as number 1. Which is like... I guess? I mean, I see their reasoning, but still, I don't think it's the deepest thing in the world.

Link

qwertytard · 2013-07-26T13:46:11+00:00

if it weren't for the video games, then there'd be no purpose for this bitch to be bitching all over the place about bullshit

cryptobomb · 2013-07-26T21:40:37+00:00

Who is she important to other than herself?

Belaires · 2013-07-26T10:46:37+00:00

Gandhi bitched quite a bit, but I don't remember him producing all that much salt

ptgrenville · 2013-07-26T12:32:27+00:00

Wow! she's a beast-lol! I bet she doesn't shave or bathe like most feminists-Yikes!

iMADEthis2post · 2013-07-26T12:21:08+00:00

I'm a gamer, that woman is a joke and seen as a joke by anyone who enjoys games. I have never actually seen anyone say anything nice about her ever. I have seen her elementary school quality work ripped to shreds more times than I can remember though.

I have no idea what that list is, I have no idea who would place her upon it, she is seen as a joke by most gamers. My SO is a feminist, very well read and she thinks her work is piss poor and child like.

On a more personal note, loose the fucking ear rings, you look like a twat.

Title	Apparently bitching about other people's work is more important than the actual work. (x-post gaming)
Author	Westboro_Fap_Tits
Upvotes	918
Comments	429
Date	July 26, 2013 1:49 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1j2iof/apparently_bitching_about_other_peoples_work_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/apparently-bitching-about-other-peoples-work-is.1167910 https://theredarchive.com/post/1167910

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