What does 'taking responsibility' mean?

Turning_blades · 2021-05-28T23:38:55+00:00

If someone is a victim of a crime, aren't they already "taking responsibility" because it is inescapable? They have to deal w the trauma

Feeling the consequences of your own actions is not the same thing as taking responsibility for your actions. Taking responsibility is thinking about what you did wrong and what you can do different to prevent those consequences from happening again. When men say take responsibility for your actions they mean stop dating assholes after you become a single mom.

That woman is already responsible for living her life according to her values. She is responsible f or a pregnancy or STI if either occurs.

Yes the woman is responsible for these things. But when people say take responsibility they mean does she hold herself accountable for her actions? It means acknowledge that you made mistakes and try to change your behavior. It doesn't mean keep making the same mistakes and expect someone else to come clean up your mess.

DaBlockObama · 2021-05-28T20:28:04+00:00

Personal responsibility involves being accountable for one's own behavior and action

Pastelitomaracucho · 2021-05-29T03:11:27+00:00

Just own your fuck ups.

Got fat? Don't start with the HAES bullshit.

Got pregnant? Welp. You should have used contraception.

You are a slut and men won't take you seriously? It's not the patriarchy. It's you.

Bad career choice that left you financially disadvantaged? No one to blame, but yourself. Sure the US is a fucking scam and the game is rigged for the small guy, but we knew that already.

Men ignore you? The common Denominator is you. Time for introspection.

LetsDelveIntoIt · 2021-05-28T20:14:30+00:00

Good question, I too would like to hear from men who make these statements. My guess is that they want these women to reflect on what led them to this particular guy, what led them to engage in this particular act, etc and then course correct if need be.

There are some women (and men) who have patterns of behavior which are not exactly positive. Like maybe they're drawn to bad boys or they put with disrespectful behavior from others. Taking responsibility would probably mean spending some thinking about why they have these patterns and realizing how they contribute to negative outcomes. Then perhaps seeking help in breaking these patterns.

As I said, this is just conjecture and I'm also interested in hearing what exactly people mean when they say they want folks to take responsibility.

Paliant · 2021-05-28T22:29:39+00:00

It is having the self awareness to know how one’s actions will / can affect themselves and others.

gjorgeborge · 2021-05-28T22:24:43+00:00

" when men say victims of crimes are also responsible for not protecting themselves, what, *specifically* does that mean?"

go to a high crime neighborhood with a stack of cash on your arm
get robbed

luliloo · 2021-05-29T01:04:40+00:00

In your example, the woman choses to have sex. Choses to have sex with someone they are still getting to know. Choses to have sex without commitment. Choses to take a risk in that situation. You can’t date without risk. Nothing is ever for sure.

Everyone is allowed to change their mind. A guy can choose to pay for dinner and the woman can decide she doesn’t like him after that. He lost his monetary investment. That’s just the dating game. The most you can do is vet as much as you can before either side takes a risk.

AbsolutelyNobody0 · 2021-05-29T08:39:11+00:00

A lot of women go through life believing bad things fall out of the sky. Plenty of women act as if they are just playing a passive role in their own life. They pretend they have no control over the outcomes they get.

It is generally acceptable to hold men accountable for our role in the outcomes we get. This is much less often the case for women. It does women no service to be lenient and can breed resentment among men who see the double standards.

NockerJoe · 2021-05-28T20:40:41+00:00

The language a lot of women use is probably a good place to start. Stuff like "It just happened" isn't exactly rare when you hear about a woman who's cheated or slept with someone they regret sleeping with and it generally frames events as things that happen to her rather than her being an active participant in her own life. If she's hurt from that or the example you gave, sure, that's natural. But that's still a series of events she was a willing part of and a choice she made that failed and blew up in her face.

This sounds like it shouldn't be controversial ...right up until shit actually hits the fan. Because if things get out to other people or goes bad externalizing the entire problem and saying it was all him or all external circumstances or all some other thing and she's entirely blameless for her choices.

Obviously if someone is trying to hurt or deceive you that should have some consideration but I think a lot of women really don't get the absolute lack of consideration men in an equivalent scenario get. The people being critical generally don't get an audience to talk to that'll let them do the same thing. If a man gets hurt, physically or mentally, it's de facto his fault for not being prepared enough or making a wrong decision or being stupid and getting into a bad scenario altogether, and if he picks a woman who winds up lying to him in an equivalent way the stock answer is he should never have trusted her to begin with and it's his fault for being vulnerable around her at all.

stats135 · 2021-05-28T21:02:26+00:00

Your post title is about taking responsibility, but the whole body of the post talks about being a victim. This is exactly the crap that gets people annoyed. Too many times we see women claiming to be victims after they made a bad choice to escape responsibility for their actions.

In the few cases where women are legitimately victims, it is usually of the flavor "I didn't know." Ignorance is no excuse. If women truly are this dumb that they can be successfully and repeatedly lied to, then maybe MGTOWs do have a point in putting women's power back in the hands of their husbands and fathers. (As a side note here, we apply the same standards to men. We take the attitude that simps should have known better about female nature, but somehow BP still sees it as misogynistic no matter whether the victim is a man or woman.)

But lets say a woman is legitimately a victim and it wasn't the result of stupidity or anything within her control. Too many times, the cost is shouldered by the next unsuspecting guy. When your car gets wrecked (no matter the reason), you don't just sell it off to the next guy at full price. But in the context of PPD, this is exactly what women do. The alphas take the young attractive women on the joy ride that wreck them physically or emotionally, and its the beta men that take up the check.

angels-fan · 2021-05-29T03:49:44+00:00

We live in a society that highly favors hypoagency for women and hyperagency for men.

Almost universally, when something bad happens to a woman, everyone says, "what external things happened that caused this bad thing to happen to her".

When a bad thing happens to a man, it's "what decisions did he make that caused this bad thing".

This starts at a very early age and girls learn veeeery quickly how to shift blame to everyone but themselves.

Boys can try this, and some are successful, but largely the authority figures won't have it.

Just look at how feminists view the world. The most privileged group of people that has ever walked the planet still believes that they are oppressed. It's insane to me that they are so blind, but then I think about how they've been taught from infancy how nothing is their fault and all their problems are the fault of some invisible, mythical patriarchy. There's no pathway for taking responsibility when everyone around you is shouting that it isn't your fault. And anyone who says it is will be called a misogynist and banned.

yabbobay · 2021-05-28T21:06:50+00:00

If a human makes a mistake, that human should take responsibility.

I think both genders do it, women moreso.

I know my XH let me get away with things that he probably shouldn't have. (I'm not talking anything big, like cheating, just stupid things like immediately blaming him or having a tantrum). I let him off too, but I made out better. But now back in the dating world, I'm relearning human interactions and reflecting on it.

My hope is that with reflection and responsibility, comes forgiveness.

DownvoteMe2021 · 2021-05-28T22:11:09+00:00

What, specifically, is "responsibility"?

Responsibility is acknowledging your portion of the blame for how events turn out. It doesn't mean responding to this reply with "yea but", it means looking specifically at your portion of the blame and asking what you could change next time, or what choices you made that led you to where you are. I'll list out come classic PPD behaviors:

He used me for sex.

In order to be used for sex, you first have to agree to sex. You have to meet a person, spend time with them, and determine that they are worth having sex with. What are the traits that made them "worth having sex with" ? When you sleep with a man that other women also find attractive, or who doesn't find you attractive, what is his incentive to stay with you? What behaviors did YOU engage in beyond "I had sex with him" that was going to ensure that you were worth sticking around later on? If he stated "he wanted a relationship" and then he left you, why did you believe him? What were the traits he demonstrated that made you trust him? Should you continue to trust those traits in the future? No woman in modern western society has ever been used for sex against her will. If she is choosing partners who don't see her as a long term partner, she needs to reflect on what her choices were. This is no different than when men tell other men "never stick your dick in crazy"; Just because a woman is hot, doesn't mean he should fuck her. The same goes true for women.

He's a Jerk

Then why did you get together with him in the first place? Were you making choices based on personality or sexual desire?

He sleeps around and won't commit

Why shouldn't he? What are YOU doing to keep him around? If he'd rather spend his time around you, he won't be fucking them.

I cheated because HE

No, you cheated because YOU. You made the choice to stay in a relationship with someone until things go to a point where you felt entitled to cheat. You made the choice to spend time alone with someone you knew deep down wanted to fuck you, and You made the decision to engage in higher risk behaviors (like drinking) that would lower inhibition when in an environment with someone who wanted to have sex with you.

I was raped / attacked

Why were you in that place?

Why did you take that route?

Why did you believe that story?

Why did you get that drunk?

I'm not saying you deserved that, but you did enable that activity with your choices. Rape and public attacks are statistically very rare, and there are many many things that can be done to minimize the likelihood of being attacked. You're never going to eliminate all threats from the world, so your portion of the responsibility is what YOU could have done better to avoid being in that situation. Another simple example is TRP's philosophy about dinner dates: With so many women going on dates for free meals, the only way to protect yourself is to go dutch or not do dinner at all. They could go on dinner, they probably wouldn't be used for food, but the chance is high enough they feel it warrants changing their behavior, they have taken responsibility for decreasing the chances of that occurring.

"Simps"

Women are perfectly well aware that they're effectively abusing men whose only goal is to get their attention towards sex and/or a relationship. A woman negates this by saying "well we're just friends", but is perfectly happy to be given attention, gifts, meals, etc. A responsible woman tells a man "no" if she doesn't see him in a romantic sense, and doesn't want to take advantage of him. If she does want to take advantage of him, she should admit that she does that because she takes responsibility for her actions.

Wage gap

Women currently get 50% more degrees than men. Women 20-29 earn 108% of what men do, or 8% MORE. Women who step out of the work force do so by choice, and while I have no issue with that, it doesn't mean they ought to be entitled to more money for their choice to work less. Until men and women make equal decisions (which they never will, collectively), they should take responsibility for why they don't earn as much.

Fertility

Women choose to get pregnant. They decide when men are allowed to have sex, which ones are allowed to have sex, whether or not the man must wear a condom (the man may choose to wear one if the woman says they're not required, but a choice is not a must). If she ends up pregnant, it is 100% her choice. To keep that child. The man has zero legal input into this process. If a woman has chosen a male partner who impregnates her and he leaves her, the responsibility is hers for sleeping with that man and for choosing to keep that child.

Women cannot claim on the one hand that men are responsible for a child and then claim that abortion doesn't kill a child, but rather a fetus. Men don't ever create children, they create fetuses, and as such, should have no requirement to provide for said fetus, until they also have responsibility for the outcomes of that fetus. Men have been told we are not allowed privilege, and therefore should have no responsiblity. This means that it is women who have responsibility for children, exclusively, and not men. If a man is unwilling to sign that birth certificate (or it can be proved he signed it under fraudulent pretenses), than women should have no authority to give men responsibility when it suits them, but not when it doesn't.

Alimony

Women choose their marital partners. Women choose their careers. Women choose to stay home (or not). Why are men responsible for paying alimony? To be clear, I don't believe that men should receive alimony from a higher paid woman partner either. If a woman enters herself into an arrangement with financial risk, she needs to accept the responsibility of the outcome. If a 50k woman loses a relationship with a 100k guy (by her choice or his), she goes back to being a 50k woman. It is her responsibility to pick a partner that won't leave her or she won't leave or protect herself in the event that the above occurs. Alimony functionally exists because fathers/parents used to give away their daughters, who often had little choice, and had little workplace participation. This is no longer the case.

Women as a collective accepting responsibility is first and foremost about dealing with the world as it is, and not as a fantasy world. It involves looking at their choices, and how those choices impacted their lives. It's about realizing that we all contribute to our own stories, and that often times those contributions will not paint us in a favorable light. People will try to use you, abuse you, take advantage of you, etc. This is human nature in its infinite variance. If you truly see yourself as equal, than you need to accept that your actions are equally responsible for your outcomes.

OddAlternatives · 2021-05-28T20:30:31+00:00

This seems like an appropriate time to feel hurt? She should use that hurt to understand what happened and not assume that she can be physically affectionate with someone and if they respond, it automatically means they feel the same way. She should use the hurt to understand she needs to get commitment before she is sexual or she will continue to experience this again and again.

Feeling hurt is fine. Asserting she was entitled to his commitment because she put out is not fine.

Aldabruzzo · 2021-05-28T22:02:55+00:00

Is there anything you women are responsible for? If so, what?

What does a woman "taking responsibility" look like, if not owning their shit and being accountable for their own actions and accepting the natural consequences of their actions and exercising reasonable care for their own safety?

poppy_blu · 2021-05-29T01:46:23+00:00

I don’t know what men mean when they say “women don’t take responsibility”

On PPD they mean women in the west won’t accept their “responsibility” to pretend low value men are desirable and treat them like they are superior cuz penis.

ivy176 · 2021-05-29T05:34:42+00:00

It's stuff people say when they have no personal experience with being used, raped, abused. It's also something people who are pissed off they can't get laid are more likely to say. If you can't get a girlfriend then the problem is women, right?

Obviously people need to take responsibility in their lives, but it's a common theme on this sub where men blame women for ending up in an abusive relationship. They make incorrect judgements like she is attracted to abusive men. It's the typical "It's never happened to me, it could never happen to me, it only happens to pathetic people" mentality. Sheltered people of all backgrounds and genders can have this belief, but it's more common in men and certainly more common on subs like this. Because the fact is that men who have no issues with women are usually not attracted to places like this. My husband asks, "Why would men wanna chat online about womens issues or dating? No offence but I feel like women are usually more into that stuff". It didn't occur to him that they're furious at women and come here to criticise the concept of women.

Apprehensive-Swan-80 · 2021-05-29T05:58:52+00:00

Most these responders are scary and need to be avoided at all cost. EW

covfefe_believer · 2021-05-28T20:31:00+00:00

Some very good examples can be seen on Reddit but sadly in some obsecure or incel oriented subs.

I had noted one or a few examples where women were the perpetrators of rape on young boys (below 18). However, these women later claimed that the boys in fact had coerced them.

This is an example of taking responsibility.

Aldabruzzo · 2021-05-28T21:07:28+00:00

when men say victims of crimes are also responsible for not protecting themselves, what, specifically does that mean?

-- Does it mean the perpetrator shouldn't be punished or should be punished less harshly?

-- Does it mean people should shame the victim?

These are strawmen. It means that the victims are responsible for ignoring clear warning signs, for failing to exercise reasonable care for their own safety, for deliberately encountering known risks, and for failing to mitigate those risks once bad things start to happen.

For example: The drunk woman at the party crashing on a sofa next to a guy who's already made moves on her and she's already rejected him. It's a bad idea to stay on that sofa. She already rejected him. she's ignoring warning signs by not moving, she knows or should know that he will keep making moves and she's staying there anyway. She isn't mitigating the risks by getting up and moving away. THAT is the problem. The drunk guy is responsible for his part, the drunk girl is responsible for hers. The drunk guy is NOT responsible for himself AND FOR HER. No. That is not how it is.

a woman has sex with a man, after he pursued her. After sleeping with him, she realized that he did not have feelings for her and only wanted sex, while she was interested in him and had sex with him as a physical display of affection, because she liked him.

I've heard men say that her being hurt is wrong and she needs to "take responsibility".

I wouldn't put it that way. What I would say and how I've heard it is not that she should not feel hurt. It's more that she cannot blame the man for any of it, and that she knew or should have known that getting hurt was a possible consequence of her choice. So she will not be heard to complain that she got pumped and dumped, that she didn't get what she wanted from the interaction, that he wasn't nice to her, that he lied to her, or that she got an unplanned pregnancy or an STI. She KNEW those things could happen, she KNEW he was a shitbag, but she went ahead with fucking him anyway.

I don't understand how this person is eschewing "responsibility" or what that "responsibility" is?

Because what usually happens is that women in her position blame the man for causing her pain and blame the man for how it went down. No. He's a dog, but she chose to lie down with that dog, knowing he was a dog. He's a shitbag, and she chose to fuck a shitbag knowing full well he was a shitbag. It's not the shitbag's fault that she got shit all over her. That's what happens when you fuck a shitbag.

That woman is already responsible for living her life according to her values. She is responsible for a pregnancy or STI if either occurs. She is responsible for not being cruel to her partner while he is vulnerable with her. She is already doing all of those things.

But, she doesn't. Many times, women in these positions try to shift responsibility for it. They blame the man. They blame "society". They make society pay for it. For example, the pregnancy - she makes others pay for it. She demands that government pay for it. She demands that family members pay for it. If she contracts an STI, she blames the man, she demands that others pay for it, pay for the treatment.

Being responsible means you accept all the real and possible consequences of your actions. It also means you don't blame anyone else for the consequences. It means you own it all: your actions, and the consequences that happen to you, both good and bad.

edit: Nice downvoting, u/midwestufohunter. That's against the rules and you know it. Don't just downvote. give me a substantive response.

Second edit: I cannot BELIEVE my post is being downvoted... for merely saying that women are responsible to exercise reasonable care for their own safety. Women are responsible for the natural consequences of their actions. Unfuckingbelievable. Are you CHILDREN? Are you unable to accept ANY accountability AT ALL? Do women have NO agency AT ALL?

Sid_Insidious · 2021-05-29T03:25:44+00:00

Responsibility doesn't mean she has my beliefs or is forced to uphold my personal beliefs or values. But I get how these conversations could make some people feel that way.

Responsibility means she owns the consequences of HER actions, doesn't blame others for those problems that SHE caused and doesn't expect someone else to fix it for her simply because she's shifting the blame.

She's got 4 kids from 4 guys because these guys keep telling her that they love her.

Guess we have to just keep giving her more and more welfare because of all these lying guys running around. Never mind she was the one who chose them, had sex real soon and had unprotected sex. Never mind all that. These guys FUCKING LIED!!!

(Remember: when men cause pregnancy it's because they were not careful where they put their dicks. If they got a wickedly evil baby mama, it's because he CHOSE POORLY. Women don't have that level of accountability. He LIED to her. He BECAME a bad guy. She had NO IDEA. It's NOT her FAULT!!)

PART 2: Victim blaming.

This is so old and tired now. We're really still discussing it?

I lived in City A. I always leave my house unlocked and garage door open. My tools always got stolen. I moved to City B. Same thing happens. City C. Unreal. Everywhere I go people take things they shouldn't. I should be able to leave my house and car unlocked, and garage door open. I shouldn't have to protect myself from thieves, society should make thieves go away FOR ME because stealing is wrong!

This is how women sound when they put themselves into incredibly dangerous situations that no father would ever want his daughter to be in.

- A woman SHOULD be able to run through a park trail at night in skimpy clothes and never get raped.

- A woman SHOULD be able to accept a ride home from a guy she just met a party and not get raped.

- A woman SHOULD be able to get drunk off her ass around people she hardly knows.

- A women SHOULD be able to experiment with drugs and alcohol safely and not anticipate a male using such circumstances and chemicals to make her more vulnerable.

SAD FACTS: People take shit from wide-open cars and garages and men WHO ARE PREDATORS will happily take advantage of women who put themselves into needlessly vulnerable situations. IS IT RIGHT? NO! IS IT HER FAULT? NO!

But is it bad for me to want to establish a pick-up point for my daughter and her friends and give them a ride home?

Is it bad for me as a father to encourage my kids to wet their feet with drugs and alcohol in the basement or backyard instead of some frat party or farm house where there is no proper parental supervision and a high likelihood of a predator being there?

Is it bad for me to teach my daughter ways in which she might make herself less vulnerable or just less attractive to a predator? GASP!

Yes, we know. We want to police male sexuality while we give women sexual carte blanche and unlimited sexual freedom. But feminism falls flat on it's purple-haired ugly face when it meets reality. Predators exist as they always have and always will. Just like thieves.

Me locking my doors and putting up cameras is no more victim blaming that me telling my "budding" daughter the realities of male predation and ways in which she can make herself less of a target while still enjoying her youth and discovering life.

I want my kids to enjoy discovering life. And not die trying.

YES, THE CAUSE OF RAPE IS RAPISTS WHO RAPE!

But until you people make me your king and we start boiling 10 rapists a night, your Liberal governments are going to continue to release dangerous predators, rapists and paedophiles into your communities.

And guess what. When you point out the guy who tried to rape your daughter he'll just put on a dress and have you charged with a hate crime for misgendering him.

That's the kind of society you dumb-fuck "progressives" are creating.

A complete fucking clown show.

As for my kids? There is no state sanctioned death penalty in Canada.

state sanctioned

parahacker · 2021-05-29T03:40:24+00:00

You're going to get a bunch of vague and meaningless answers to this post.

But the real issue is this: women have an in-group bias of something like 5-to-1 over men. Documented over repeated studies in multiple arena - hiring decisions, relationships, adjectives used to describe each other, court sentencing by female judges, on and on.

You simply don't call each other on your bullshit.

When a woman leaves a relationship, the man is blamed by her friends. When a woman does shady shit, unless it's glaringly obvious she done fucked up, you'll take her side over his - or it's "both are responsible." Meaning mostly still his fault.

So let's be clear. "Taking responsibility" is vaguely stated, and could really mean anything about anything. But when it does mean something, it's never the woman's fault. Which is bullshit.

Take some responsibility.

simonsuperhans · 2021-05-29T07:04:48+00:00

Why does this have to be about women? People need to take responsibility for their actions, both men and women. There is a serious lack of accountability from the majority of the people on this planet, it's not unique to one sex.

Mokszu · 2021-05-29T20:04:04+00:00

Responsibility means you accept the consequences of your choices and don’t start blaming others for not having your assumed outcome. Sleeping with a man on the first time you met him either means you are OK with just sleeping around casually and having fun without any commitment, or he lies about commitment. Just because you assume he will fall for you during the night don’t start blaming him. Either you communicated one night stands are OK for you or you trusted someone you don’t know anything about. You were not forced in that situation, your poor choices and assumptions led to the outcome you didn’t want. And this is responsibility. If you want to sleep with only those who commit to you then don’t accept one night stands assuming it will turn into something more. As you mentioned live according to your values but in the example she is not doing that. As for the victim part, nobody says the perpetrator should be punished less. It is about knowing the harsh world, the reality and not acting accordingly. For example nobody is shaming victims of terrorist attacks, because there is nothing you can do to lower the chances it happening to you. Same when children are the victims. They don’t understand the world yet. This topic comes up usually when women are attacked during night. Since most of the normal people sleep during the night, the evil abnormal people turn the streets into a “jungle” like environment where brute force rules which puts people, especially women, at a higher risk. Responsibility here comes as not acting accordingly despite knowing the world works as it does. Yes, it shouldn’t work like this but it does and you have to be responsible and deal with it.

_lemazaki · 2021-05-28T20:44:26+00:00

I don´t think this "responsibility" is a group thing. I only expect responsibility from a person that promised me something. But, crimes and interactions different things. You cannot blame a woman after she got raped of course. But if you have casual sex and got dumped, that is your problem if none of you promised anything.

I don´t agree with quotes like "muh birthrate is women´s fault" or..."muh men are all rapists" pf fuck that! Individuals do what they want to do and the blame/responsibility has to be individualized too.

Naus1987 · 2021-05-28T22:48:49+00:00

My mom always told me that I should be responsible for my safety. And that I should look both ways when crossing the road.

She didn’t intend to victim blame me, nor was she saying it’s my fault if I get by a car.

But she did say people are dumb, and your life is the most important thing you have, so you shouldn’t gamble on the (responsibility) of other people to be competent—especially when the penalty for losing is potentially death.

So even if I’m in the right, and other people (shouldn’t) be wreckless drivers—I’m ultimately (responsible) for my safety, and my life.

Ultimately what this boils down to is never trust anyone with something you value. Your life, your mental stability, your money.

People in general are statistical bombs of hurt. And everyone should take personal responsibility in looking out for their own safety.

Because the penalty of being lazy is just too great. You can be in the right, but also completely dead.

And anyone who’s spent time on the internet can literally watch hours of people getting hit by cars because they had blind faith in their (right of way), and carelessly gave up their responsibility for their safety.

So many of those people are crippled or worse.

My mom always told me never to end up like that.

AceOfBlacks · 2021-05-28T20:48:32+00:00

I can't speak for all men, but when I say that somebody needs to take responsibility into their own hands, I generally mean that they, man or woman, need to do everything in their power not to end up in a bad situation.

For eg.

We all know that it is generally a bad idea to travel anywhere after dark, whether by foot or by some other means of transportation, it is even worse to travel through a bad neighbourhood after dark.

And yet even worse to travel with bad company through a bad neighbourhood after dark. Which is something everybody should avoid doing, travel with trustworthy company if possible.

Another eg.

When going to a party, it is generally seen as responsible to alert your closest friends and/or family about where you are going aswell as establishing a window of verbal communication like "If I don't call once every hour, something is wrong, come get me", especially if there will be alcohol involved, and especially if you are going alone.

What is generally a bad idea is getting drunk to the point of memory loss and/or unconsciousness, and it is especially bad if you are surrounded by strangers.

Another eg.

If you are going on a date with someone that is a complete stranger to you, apply all of the previous advice, aswell as meeting the person in a well lit location during the day, in the prescense of other people.

And if you are going in with the mindset that you are looking for a long term relationship, make it very clear and get verbal confirmation that your date is in it for the same thing. Make sure to note how this person treats people around them, signs of impulsiveness and recklessness.

If the person you are dating does not follow through after having sex, given that you both talked about your plans before the date, it is okay to feel betrayed, it happens to a lot of us, and it is hard to foresee.

Now while some women might find this to be a victim blaming mentality, you have to understand that it's actually about cutting off the lifelines that users and abusers use to get their way.

All men can't be everywhere to help a woman out of a terrible situation, so we give advice that significantly lowers the risks of ending up traumatized because a woman happens to run into heinous men.

Sadly ever since the advent of feminism this advice is frowned upon with statements such as "We should tell abusers to stop abusing, instead of telling women how to dress and where to walk".

This mindset is dangerous for several reasons, one is that it is discouraging men from giving out this type of advice due to social stigma and shaming. Another is that it builds resentment between the genders, women feel like men aren't doing enough, and men feel like they aren't taken seriously when trying to help.

The truth is, we can't stop abusers everywhere, however we can limit the power that they have in any given situation by being vigilant and strategic instead of reckless in our daily lives. I have personal experience of being publicly mocked when trying to advise women to stay away from men that I know for a fact will use and abuse them, usually the mockery is in the form of "You're just jealous!" and "Don't try to control me, you're not my dad!".

Feel free to ask more questions, this response is massive already. 😁

Barely-moral · 2021-05-28T21:20:27+00:00

What, specifically, is "responsibility"?

To admit the degree in which you contributed to a circumstance and to put the focus in that part.

when men say victims of crimes are also responsible for not protecting themselves, what, specifically does that mean?

The person that commited the crime is both responsible and at fault. Responsible because they play a part in the crime happening, and at fault because they had the final decision on if the crime happened.

The victim is only responsible because they play a part in the crime happening.

Does it mean the perpetrator shouldn't be punished or should be punished less harshly?

No

Does it mean people should shame the victim?

It means that the victim should not complain that others see the part they played in the crime happening.

If someone is a victim of a crime, aren't they already "taking responsibility" because it is inescapable?

No. Suffering the consequences and taking responsibility are not the same thing.

a woman has sex with a man, after he pursued her. After sleeping with him, she realized that he did not have feelings for her and only wanted sex, while she was interested in him and had sex with him as a physical display of affection, because she liked him.

I've heard men say that her being hurt is wrong and she needs to "take responsibility".

Her being hurt is inevitable. She still needs to take responsibility.

What else do you feel they need to be doing?

Admit the part they play in whatever happened and put the focus in that part instead of putting the focus on whatever the other party did.

If someone disagrees that what they did is wrong (for example, having sex with men) then there is nothing they need to take responsibility for?

If there are consequences to an action, there is responsibility to take. Any consequences for any action.

SaBahRub · 2021-05-28T20:21:43+00:00

That it’s our fault, and only our fault, for not being satisfied or happy in sex, dating, marriage, etc

Because they’d eat the sex Hot Dog off the ground —- why won’t we?

Flightlessbirbz · 2021-05-28T21:54:22+00:00

Usually, “women should take responsibility” is used to shift the blame off men for their actions like rape, abuse, or using women. I think men need to take responsibility for their own actions as far as these things are concerned. Women need to be smart and learn how to avoid these men, yes. But no one is responsible for what someone else chooses to do to them, even if they were stupid. It’s a fine but important line. Imo what women really need to start taking more responsibility for is their own lives and careers apart from a man. But we aren’t responsible for men’s actions.

superlurkage · 2021-05-28T21:05:00+00:00

That men want to fuck us and it’s on us to prevent it or else choose perfectly who we do fuck. And anything that happens after is our fault.

Ya know — the infamous “gatekeeping”

It’s pretty misogynist, frankly

SylvestorTalone · 2021-05-29T00:52:08+00:00

It means not acting like you're some innocent victim when your own actions and choices were an indispensable part of what got you into the situation you were in. It means acknowledging the part you played in bringing about what happeend to you. It does not mean that the person who took advantage is any less culpable for their part, but it also does not mean that the rest of us are going to act like this is some awful thing that just happened to you through no fault of your own.

This comes up a lot in respons to various things women say to paint themselves as helpless victims of men. It can range from ''men are trash'' through more passive agressive versions like ''not convinced there are any genuine guys left out there'', but my personal favourite is ''I attract the wrong type of guys''. No, you attract all kinds of guys, you choose the wrong kind. Very few women will ever acknowledge the true dynamic here, that they want to get the guy all the other women want as a kind of display of dominance, and even though getting played and used is the most likely outcome there, they wanted to shoot their shot anyhow. Complaining after the fact is like complaining that you lost all your money gambling and expecting others to act like you're a blameless victim of circumstance. There was a good outcome, there was a (more likely) bad outcome, you knew what they were going in. You got in with your eyes open, you got the bad outcome, that's it.

You virtually never hear a woman get to 35 and say ''I wasted my youth and beauty chasing the ego boost that comes from locking down a man who a bunch of other women wanted, and now I'm paying the piper''. In fact I don't think I've ever heard that said. Finding women who have all sorts of reasons why it's men's fault that things didn't work out for them is extremely easy. This is what we mean by not taking responsibility.

cowfishAreReal · 2021-05-28T20:15:37+00:00

I don't agree with people that say people that got hurt by someone being an asshole should "take responsibility" they're usually trying to take the blame off the person who did the asshole thing. But that doesn't mean that there aren't steps we can take to avoid some of those things, and people should take those steps if they care a lot about such a thing happening

Jakes1967 · 2021-05-28T21:02:42+00:00

What does 'taking responsibility' mean?

"To blame yourself for something; to acknowledge a fault. I take responsibility for my poor choice; it was my fault."

I don't know what men mean when they say "women don't take responsibility" or "you need to take responsibility".

Basically, this means acknowledging/accepting the role you play in your life, especially the bad parts/failures.

What, specifically, is "responsibility"?

Explained above

For instance, when men say victims of crimes are also responsible for not protecting themselves, what, specifically does that mean?

It means that when you openly expose yourself to danger, you need to understand the part you played in your suffering.

-- Does it mean the perpetrator shouldn't be punished or should be punished less harshly?

No

-- Does it mean people should shame the victim?

No

If someone is a victim of a crime, aren't they already "taking responsibility" because it is inescapable?

Imagine going on holiday and leaving the stove on, would you be surprised that there was a fire, or the stove burnt out?

They have to deal w the trauma of whatever that person did to them. Those effects the victim has to deal with can be really serious in a way that is measured and confirmed by medical doctors.

They also need to accept any responsibility, no need for self-flagellation, but to alter your behaviour for the better, you need to know what you did wrong.

Another example: a woman has sex with a man, after he pursued her. After sleeping with him, she realized that he did not have feelings for her and only wanted sex, while she was interested in him and had sex with him as a physical display of affection, because she liked him.

"Take responsibility" = he didn't force her, she was a willing participant.

This seems like an appropriate time to feel hurt?

Correct, but if she had better vetted him, it wouldn't have happened.

She should use that hurt to understand what happened and not assume that she can be physically affectionate with someone and if they respond, it automatically means they feel the same way. She should use the hurt to understand she needs to get commitment before she is sexual or she will continue to experience this again and again.

Correct

Platinirism · 2021-05-28T20:50:34+00:00

If I get scammed and lose $1000, who’s responsible for that?

Me or the scammer?

JB8511R · 2021-05-28T21:34:24+00:00

By this they mean Women Do Not take steps to avoid the negative situations. You can’t just walk through life with ignorance, assuming everything with cater to you.

You can’t just happily skip through the African Sahara, assuming no lions will jump out to attack you.

Of course we can wish there were no lions, but there are. And your failure to appreciate that fact and do something about it to protect yourself is what we mean by taking responsibility

YasuotheChosenOne · 2021-05-28T20:26:24+00:00

Very few events do you truly have no control over (like who you parents are or inherited genetic issues).

If you aren’t getting the outcomes in life that you want, the first place you should look is inward, ie. taking responsibility.

silencedmajority1 · 2021-05-28T23:15:19+00:00

Taking responsibility means women need to take things in their own hands 🙌like demanding financial compensation from men who decide to pull "pump and dump". So instead of getting heart broken and whining it online. women need to physically force men to pay up, this is women taking responsibility for sure 🙏👌👌👍👍

alialahmad1997 · 2021-05-28T23:40:33+00:00

Well it does depend on the person talking For me i believe people should not put them selves in a situation where they are in danger Dont get druk with people you don't trust dont walk alone at night in a dangerous neighborhood but the agressors should be punished regardless I believe a rapist is going to rape a woman if he wanted what you can do is minimize your chance of being the victim

You can't say the rapist should rape because obviously they don't care about what is right and what is wrong bad people will always exist

Ofcours their should be punishment regardless what the victim did

On the other hand one area where i am harsher on the victim is drug concent (i am not talking about being forced to sex while drunk or having sex with a blacked out woman) nor i am talking about a drug slipped into your drink But if you get drunk by your own will then decided to have sex i don't see that as rape Similarly if your so went out got drunk and had sex wouldn't you consider that cheating?

midwestufohunter · 2021-05-29T00:17:02+00:00

I don't know what men mean when they say "women don't take responsibility" or "you need to take responsibility".

Heres a video quickly explaining an example of woman not taking accountability for their actions.

Some DO, MOST DON'T!

Why? People always make men the focal point of negative attention.

If She cheats? Mans fault.

If she gropes a man at the bar and he reacts badly from it? The guy gets kicked out (Video example)

Im sure you have definately witnessed this behaviour of KNOWING a Chick is in the wrong, but blame is put elsewhere but herself....

men are the ''focal point'' of the bad behaviour FROM woman that dont take responsibilty for their actions.

simple...

https://youtu.be/IjNQlyc94sY?t=640

You see what am getting at?

KobaLeaderofRedArmy · 2021-05-29T02:51:57+00:00

Eating shit and liking it like a good beta

Teflon08191 · 2021-05-29T14:10:21+00:00

Alright, lets go down the list:

-- Does it mean the perpetrator shouldn't be punished or should be punished less harshly?

No.

-- Does it mean people should shame the victim?

No, but it also doesn't mean the victim shouldn't spend some time reflecting on how their own actions may have contributed.

Example: A woman gets clocked in the face for acting like an aggressive chihuahua towards a man who plainly doesn't have a problem with hitting women. She's a victim, but she also played a primary role in what happened to her. She should take responsibility for the role that she played and not just completely shut out any self-reflection in favor of "But I'm the victim here!".

I've heard men say that her being hurt is wrong and she needs to "take responsibility".

The scenario you described almost always has one common denominator: The woman kept her expectations to herself and then felt "hurt" that the man didn't follow the unspoken script in her head that she expected to play out.

Essentially she gets lost in her own fantasies, then she gets hurt and tries to externalize the blame when reality comes knocking. No, she shouldn't "use the hurt" to withhold sex until she secures commitment, she should use it to learn how to communicate her expectations directly so that she doesn't have to find out the hard way that he was never onboard with them.

What else do you need her to be responsible for?

Herself. Her actions, her behaviors, and most importantly, the consequences that result.

Is it that you believe she needs to be "responsible" for you personal beliefs that her actions make her less valuable to you?

Only if she's going to complain that her actions make her less valuable to me, because at that point she's no longer accepting the consequences of her actions and instead she's trying to change other people's expectations for her own sake. See "slut shaming", "fat shaming", and "ban bossy" as a few examples of this tactic being employed.

Why is she responsible for your beliefs

She's responsible for making herself less valuable to men. It's completely up to her to decide if that matters to her or not.

Aubrey_D_Graham · 2021-05-29T17:57:39+00:00

Accountability or a lack of here

2021-05-29T19:33:00+00:00

Tidy the room. Bucko. Be a hero.

CarelessTrifle5242 · 2021-05-30T17:08:20+00:00

Being dependable at all or most times!

upalse · 2021-05-30T18:44:00+00:00

During female shaming game, the target should "take responsibility" by validating the blame they're shifting on the target. Men usually don't respond to this well as their status sense lies in power, not social standing. They see such thing as mere nagging, which just infuriates women further.

midwestufohunter · 2021-05-31T22:41:46+00:00

Another example: a woman has sex with a man, after he pursued her. After sleeping with him, she realized that he did not have feelings for her and only wanted sex, while she was interested in him and had sex with him as a physical display of affection, because she liked him.

I've heard men say that her being hurt is wrong and she needs to "take responsibility".

It means, if that hurt is so intolerable then she can choose to not have sex. Otherwise, it's a risk she voluntarily accepted. It's unfortunate if it turns out badly but she has not been "wronged."

ArtNo6372 · 2021-05-28T21:09:27+00:00

As for the first 99% of us never blame victims

And as for the second . Smart women know how to veto shit men . If some women are too stupid to not date men who only want them for sex I'm not going to feel bad for them

__Vandetta__ · 2021-05-28T22:25:57+00:00

Look, my understanding of taking responsibility is;

The personal will to accept one's part of the blame for the situation they're in, action they took in that situation and their thought process. So essentially, define yourself from the historical evidence you created, someone else's input doesn't mean shit if you're alone only yours does. BUT both parties accepting this for a relationship and both deciding to hold one another accountable will ensure it remains solid, you know unless someone decides to be evil.

Truth is, the vast majority of people both Men and Women although this does seem to lean more towards Women are running on automatic and aren't fully making their own decisions, their body is. But the person Is responsible for their body and should be held accountable for whatever it makes them do. - Laws are created as a part of this reason, not that they're very good nor treat everyone equally.

I'm sure you've got plenty of memories of running on automatic, a phobia is a really good example of this. My mother is terrified of Spiders for instance and her value is, if they're in the house and she sees them they die, but when she does see one she can't logically override her automatic fear response, her fear response is freeze, difference between me and her is I can override it and I think it's got everything to do with how the male brain is wired. Fun fact, just to prove a point to myself I decided to capture and keep a Jumping spider I found in the house, - cutest little thing on the planet that. Yes I'm still at home, I'm 18.

Taking responsibility is essentially controlling yourself and the elites of society for the most part have achieved this, that's why I look up to them.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2021-05-28T21:28:48+00:00

There was a post on r/sex recently where a young lass told all men that they needed to ask women if they'd like a facial instead of just pulling out of her mouth and finishing on her face.

She related how dude after dude had rudely just pulled out jizzed on her face.

And how that was so presumptuous and not cool.

Not once did her dumbass consider that maybe before putting a cock in her mouth she should say "Hey no facials okay?"

Instead she made her boundaries everyone else's responsibility.

^ this is what taking responsibility means and an example of how women avoid it at most every turn.

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Mrs_Drgree · 2021-05-28T20:44:17+00:00

[removed]

ArnolduAkbar · 2021-05-28T23:49:23+00:00

I'm gonna try my best here.

I want the hottest IG model who won't cheat on me and I want her to be my wife and to give up modeling and stay at home with 5 kids. Also to fuck anytime I want and keep her looks, close to how she was in her 20's all the way into her 50's. Also when she's old and wrinkly, open relationship because I'm 50 and girls still want me.

Some might say that's unrealistic and I'll be waiting a long time.

I'll say, I deserve it for whatever reason just because... You go boy, live your best life. Never settle, never surrender.

Now, I meet a few, get cheated on or they break up with me because I'm asking too much of them OR

I meet a few but will only do half of what I said. Not good enough. Eww, she got old fast. She could fight gravity and time a bit longer couldn't she? Ughhh, so lazy.

Now I'm alone in my 60's and guess what? It's their fault and all of women as a whole. Where are all the good women at?

Now you'd say "what'd you expect?"

What? It's all reasonable! I've met or seen plenty of women who fought age and stayed with their husband and lived perfectly ever after.

I already said IT'S EVERYONE ELSE'S FAULT BUT MINE. Men told me so. Magazines told me so. My professor told me so. I got a degree in it. Throughout the centuries, men were able to secure such women.

It's on the tip of your tongue.

NTRollin · 2021-05-29T11:45:02+00:00

I have literally never heard anyone use "take responsibility" in the way you describe it so I'm accusing you of making up a bunch of bullshit

be_blase · 2021-05-30T00:22:14+00:00

An example of not taking responsibility is getting drunk as hell, sleeping with someone, and saying you were raped because you couldn’t consent since you were drunk.

Men dont say this and if they made this claim to their friends they would get ridiculed. Because we all understand that drinking leads to you making bad decisions. But they’re decisions nonetheless. Unless you’re truly drunk to the point of incapacitation. And even then, yes you were raped. But why didn’t you control your drinking? Why did you keep getting drunk as if you don’t understand how easily you could be taken advantage of.

That’s what I’d ask my male friend because i care about him not getting victimized again. That doesn’t resonate with many women as far as I can tell: Instead of wise counsel it’s labeled victim blaming.

BestLibertarianTemp · 2021-05-28T21:40:24+00:00

Your post is so messed up.

What, specifically, is "responsibility"?

When people (of any sex) throw phrases like this it usually means they want someone to resolve their issues or alternatively create a scapegoat to blame everything on.

For instance, when men say victims of crimes are also responsible for not protecting themselves, what, specifically does that mean?

For example you are going late at night flashing your cash or expansive smartphone, then get robbed. The person that robs you is guilty, no question and your probably stupid behaviour is no excuse (he remains a thief), yet there's something about you here as well.

It seems like you wanted to talk about specific crime, namely r*pe but since you haven't mention it I won't either.

-- Does it mean the perpetrator shouldn't be punished or should be punished less harshly?

No.

-- Does it mean people should shame the victim?

No. But they probably will.

I've heard men say that her being hurt is wrong and she needs to "take responsibility".

That's a big jump from discussing actual crimes to maybe some morally incorrect but completely legal situations. In a nutshell that woman took the risk and probably knew what she's in for.

PoliticsIsBroken · 2021-05-28T23:32:42+00:00

The year is 2021. Woman asks what responsibility is. Christ, we are doomed aren't we?

Title	What does 'taking responsibility' mean?
Author	midwestufohunter
Upvotes	94
Comments	1185
Date	May 28, 2021 8:03 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/nn6aqv/what_does_taking_responsibility_mean/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-does-taking-responsibility-mean.774827 https://theredarchive.com/post/774827

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