Late stage feminism leads to population collapse

Devourer_of_felines · 2024-04-07T12:55:51+00:00

Low birth rates correlate more to industrialization and urbanization than women’s rights in any given country.

The lowest birth rates in the world are in SE Asia and none of those countries are bastions of feminism

ComfortableJeans · 2024-04-07T13:20:44+00:00

I doubt it's feminism driving down the birthrates.

Even feminists want families.

Coming from a more poor, working class background, the vast majority of people my age (29) have put off having children for so long because it's so hard and expensive just to live now. No one feels secure or well off. No one has any savings, and nearly all don't own a home.

A lot still have to live with their parents, and the ones who aren't are throwing away a fortune of rent.

So you have a bunch of people who're being forced to choose between seeking out an education/income that'll provide them with some sense of stability and safty, or having a baby in an unstable life they don't think they'll be able to manage.

This goes for both men AND women.

I currently know a boy who made the mistake of buying a home at 27. He works 13 days out of every 14 as a mechanic. He gets up at 5AM and gets home at 6PM every day. Works his self to the fucking bone. Last year he talked to me about adopting when he's older, because he doesn't think he'll be able to afford having children before he's in his late 40s.

We're a stunted generation that was born in a really fucked time. I don't know if Gen Z will end up having it any better, but when I look around, these are the reason I don't see people having children.

On top of that, the people I DO see having kids now are absolute shit head. They're the exact type of idiots that raise the shit head kids that you don't want around. They're abscentee, drunk in the early afternoon, drug dealing/addict loud mouths with sub 80IQs.

Charming_Parking_302 · 2024-04-07T12:49:33+00:00

The falling birth rate is only an issue because the 'boomer' generation is usually large and can't be supported by the generations coming after it. Once the boomers are dead, the population issues will calm down.

Also - I don't give a shit if it's causing population collapse. I'm not going to forfeit an education, abandon my career and settle down with a man I'm not attracted too to "sAvE" SOciETy".

badgersonice · 2024-04-07T12:42:53+00:00

Western governments have been pushing women into higher education for half a century, in the name of "equality".

South Korea, Japan, and China all have low birthrates and are not “late-stage feminist” or “Western”. China might put you in prison for calling its leader “western”.

Lenovo_Driver · 2024-04-07T17:06:41+00:00

Late stage feminism and not late stage capitalism that has everyone but rich people worrying about the cost of living?

spanglesandbambi · 2024-04-07T13:01:41+00:00

If educating women results in population collapse that suggests people are not given rewards worth having a child, maybe fix that don't blame women.

Nellylocheadbean · 2024-04-07T14:02:08+00:00

If ppl really cared about birth rates they would advocate for services that encourage men & women to have children & support families and new parents. Also, Changing laws to encourage ppl to stay together. Advocating for more support for fathers.

Included but not limited to, federal mandated maternity/paternity leave, doula/midwife support, affordable parenting courses, regulated affordable daycare etc

The truth is , you don’t genuinely care about birth rates or any of this stuff. Men only use these arguments because their chances of dying alone and unwanted are increasing.

This population collapse bs is just scare tactic warped in their own delusions as a way to cope and deflect accountability because they are undesirable and the fact that no one genuinely cares about them.

honeybooboo50 · 2024-04-07T12:52:01+00:00

how is feminism to blame here, blame the system that cut so much into both our pay that nobody can buy a house anymore, dont blame women for trying to have dignity and value, we are just being abused either way, and i would rather eat dust than be pushed away just like you probably also hate it to be pushed away on the dating apps, but for that you only have yourself to blame

PM_ME_ZED_BARA · 2024-04-07T13:00:02+00:00

Considering various substantial risks and costs of pregnancy, giving birth, and raising children, it is logical that many women choose to not have kids.

What feminism and its policies have done is simply removing constraints that disallowed or discouraged women in the past to make logical and self-interest choices. It’s like “swallowing red pills” but for women lol.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-04-07T14:11:59+00:00

Or…with the understanding that dual income households are a necessity for most families, and taking as fact the idea that reducing the population is a bad thing (not a fact, but just for the sake of argument):

The “issue” seems to be mostly a topic of conversation by men and targeted almost exclusively towards women and “feminism” is one of the default boogeymen. Suggestions all seem to be variations on ways to remove women’s choices and opportunities in order to compel a return to the sit-com 50s.

I have never seen any of these men suggest that, in order to facilitate a higher birth rate, men should overwhelmingly and enthusiastically embrace the responsibility of being the default parent and the default home manager for their family when both parents work.

Women have been doing so while working full time jobs and are tired.

Nobody ever tells men that they need to choose between professional success and parenting. Maybe that needs to change.

Maybe men need to find a way to succeed while also being flexible and close enough to home to able to take off on snow days and for dentist appointments and when the school nurse calls etc. etc.

Maybe men should proactively address and own responsibility for the minutiae of managing schedules and holidays and homework and activities and developmental milestones and extended family relationships and school clothes and permission slips and making sure there’s toothpaste and extra shoestrings and the soccer uniform is clean and in the backpack and there are enough valentines for everyone in the class and the birthday cupcakes are in the shape of the right transformer and are peanut free etc etc etc etc etc

Obviously there are more issues impacting the birth rate, but somehow men taking on these responsibilities never gets considered🤔

As a side benefit, men would have a much better custody outcome in the case of divorce.

TermAggravating8043 · 2024-04-07T13:01:29+00:00

Dude, this is how the system should have been all along, now we’re vastly over populated, we don’t have enough resources to substantiate us, and we’re cooking our planet by just being here.

I don’t mean to sound like thanos but we need a few decades of bringing down our numbers to balance us out again, sure it’s gonna be horrible for the older generations but that’s the penalty for breeding to much in the first place

John_Oakman · 2024-04-07T13:40:43+00:00

Threatening materialistic consequences to the moralists is as futile as the other way around, yet everyone here still does it.

WanderingThoughts31 · 2024-04-07T12:44:13+00:00

I would much rather have my degree than have a baby.

Lower birth rates also positively correlate with a country’s development. In larger numbers, the women who are having children are doing it because they want to have children, not because they essentially don’t have a choice.

Think-Pick-8602 · 2024-04-07T12:48:02+00:00

And the problem with this is...?

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-04-07T13:34:46+00:00

“Collapse” is quite the stretch. Decreasing population? Yes. That’s not the same as collapse. You also don’t mention the myriad of huge other factors that have contributed to a population decline, notably the economy. Why single out feminism? (I think I know why…)

Sorcha16 · 2024-04-07T13:59:53+00:00

Expect if you look up the countries with the worst population decline they're hardly known for their women's rights or feminism.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-declining-population

Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine.

DomoSang · 2024-04-07T16:34:33+00:00

There is too many variables(online dating, capitalism etc.) that interplay that will lead to this butterfly effect. But I think it’s harsh to totally put in feminism cuz we cant deny the good it has done.

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-04-07T18:14:27+00:00

Good. Let's accelerate. I want to see the world burn before my eyes stop working.

TheMedsPeds · 2024-04-07T19:30:50+00:00

What’s wrong with lower birth rates? We have over billion people on this planet that is basically on fire due to climate change. 100-200 years from now plenty of places will be unlivable. It’s hard to make a living in the economy AI is replacing a shit ton of jobs.

I’d be worried if the population wasn’t decreasing. It better, or this planet is gonna have swine seeuous problems. If trad people had there way there would be a shit ton of poor families with 4-5 kids each. I couldn’t imagine the levels of crime that would exist if that were the case.

So woman goes to college, makes more money has 0-2 kids with her partner in her 30s…what’s the issue? lol

serpensmercurialis · 2024-04-07T13:32:29+00:00

You say “collapse” I say “correction.”

Solondthewookiee · 2024-04-07T15:13:59+00:00

Higher education in women is inversely correlated with the birth rate.

Red pillers really arguing that we gotta keep women dumb so they will pump out more babies?

bluestjuice · 2024-04-07T15:30:14+00:00

There’s not an army of men beating down the door for the opportunity to have and raise loads of babies.

We can talk about feminism all day, but at its heart cultural impacts that incentivize atomization and self-reliance and personal fulfillment are more relevant to this discussion.

People, of all genders, want fewer children than they have sometimes in some times and places. And they have the means to avoid having them. That’s all.

Ok_Individual · 2024-04-07T17:55:55+00:00

Imagine getting this far in life and still not understanding that correlation does not necessarily imply causation.

Safinated · 2024-04-07T13:22:28+00:00

A decrease is not a collapse

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2024-04-07T13:59:14+00:00

Yes, this is without doubt true. So? Our population is going to reduce a bit.

Fabulous_HonestTea · 2024-04-07T14:19:34+00:00

Higher education in women is inversely correlated with the birth rate.

Why doesn’t the same thing happen to men? I’ve never met a college-educated man who eschewed the idea of finding a wife and pumping her full of his frosting.

apresonly · 2024-04-07T17:28:54+00:00

If a population exists only because of women being oppressed then it should collapse.

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Otjahe · 2024-04-07T14:42:36+00:00

Men just need to step up and eventually they will. No issue

stormiu · 2024-04-07T15:53:15+00:00

Kids? In this economy?

WilliamWyattD · 2024-04-07T16:01:28+00:00

There are too many potential confounding variables IMO to say that female education causes a massive drop in the birthrate in and of itself. Think of all the things that tend to come along with female education, or are needed as a foundation for it.

Plus, nobody understands the TFR collapse. It is premature to put it at the feat of gender dynamics. It could be primarily economic. It could be about overpopulation signals--real or somehow mimicked. That is the scary part about the TFR isssue: we don't understand it.

MattPayneWrestler · 2024-04-07T17:17:22+00:00

The population won't collapse, it will just be replaced by immigrants. Its the culture that will collapse and be overtaken by foreign cultures. Mostly cultures that don't respect women and use them as baby making machines.

Exotic-Technician450 · 2024-04-07T20:26:28+00:00

Good. The earth is overpopulated.

Expel_10 · 2024-04-07T21:06:02+00:00

Lmfao serious cope in this thread, honestly I don't give a shit about women or feminism, men too in fact.

Obviously the things we have been doing have lead us to this point, where I can see it, doesn't look promising. Gotta ask yourself, should we really be double downing on the current system? None of it matters at this point though.

Here's the bigger picture kids, in Geopolitics when nations are trying to change the way the world works it usually causes a lot of people to die in that process, we are starting to see the beginning.

So just buckle up and enjoy yourselves, it's literally out of your peasant hands.

PMmeareasontolive · 2024-04-07T15:34:28+00:00

The world population was 2.5 billion in 1950. We are supposed to keep growing til we peak at over 10 billion around 2080. Population growth has been out of control and severely irresponsible. It's literally lead to the world we have now which is basically a distorted pyramid scheme where we have to exploit each other socially and economically, because every other resource (food water land timber minerals, etc) has been monopolized or exploited/depleted/fouled. That system is not sustainable, as the kids say.

"Population Collapse^TM" is a readjustment based on two positives: freedom to direct one's own life, and education that allows one to assess the reality of the situation we're in and choose alternatives.

giddy-girly-banana · 2024-04-07T16:07:30+00:00

The level of stupidity necessary to think equality of genders is to blame for society’s “collapse” is beyond comprehension.

claratheresa · 2024-04-07T14:19:06+00:00

I don’t but into the alarmism. Plenty of people are shitting out kids they can’t afford and don’t want to raise properly.

If anyone is genuinely concerned-reduce the crushing burden that children impose on women.

Men could help by doing more of the unpaid labor but we know they will fight tooth and nail to avoid that.

In the US we could give special childcare visas to women from poor countries with a pathway to a greencard. This would lower childcare costs dramatically.

We won’t, because we WANT women to be dragged down by children and out of competition in the workplace.

No-Rough-7390 · 2024-04-07T14:25:17+00:00

Women live under the delusion that they do not need men and that the second half of their life will be as fun as their first, when in reality they will become somewhat invisible. Any outcry about it is simply cope.

wtknight · 2024-04-07T13:36:07+00:00

[permanently deleted]

purplish_possum · 2024-04-07T16:13:49+00:00

Interesting fact: female education is strongly correlated with economic prosperity.

Apparently, taking advantage of the potential of all people is a good thing. Duh!

almostaarp · 2024-04-07T18:24:41+00:00

I would suggest any statement correlating “feminism” with “population collapse,” is made by an ignorant, bigoted, cretin. No discussion should be held.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2024-04-07T18:27:42+00:00

This will get buried since I’m so late to the party, but it’s really more complicated than:

Higher education in women is inversely correlated with the birth rate.

It’s not a strictly linear trend.
It’s complicated by trends in age and marriage.

Birth and Fertility Rates by Educational Attainment: United States, 1994

Birth rates differ considerably by educational attainment. In 1994 women with 0–8 years of education had the highest birth rates overall, while those who started but did not complete college had the lowest. For women 30–39 years of age, however, those with college degrees had the highest rates. Among women aged 25 years and older, unmarried women with less education have much higher birth rates than unmarried women who attended school longer. Conversely, rates for college- educated married women are much higher than those of less educated women. For college-educated women, low first birth rates for women in their twenties and high rates for women in their thirties point to the continuing trend of delayed childbearing.

alotofironsinthefire · 2024-04-07T13:53:13+00:00

As a country's economy develops, children become more of a burden. Therefore they have less of them.

If feminism was the cause then we would see more correlation between the two. Lots of countries without 'late stage feminism' have worse birth rates or are seeing their rates drop even faster and farther than the West.

purplish_possum · 2024-04-07T14:50:38+00:00

This BS AGAIN?

In case anyone hasn't noticed the world is infested with homo sapiens. We're in no danger of extinction anytime soon. Indeed a world with fewer humans would be a great improvement.

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wtknight · 2024-04-07T13:43:58+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Mental_Leek_2806 · 2024-04-07T14:25:01+00:00

Who gives a shit about the birth rate, immigration makes the world go round

MetaCognitio · 2024-04-07T16:05:47+00:00

I would consider the “industrialization of women” a contributing factor and that is in some ways a product of feminism. However the big problem now is that people that want kids, simply can’t afford them. Multiple recessions, increased cost of living etc has made it expensive to form families.

Dating apps monetizing relationships have made things worse. Even meeting someone you still can’t afford to start a family with is hard.

SovereignFemmeFudge · 2024-04-07T20:54:27+00:00

I NEVER thought I would write this but...I am pleasantly suprisded at the amount of sane male push back on this ridiculous post?!?! There is hope, even for PPD!!! Made me proud boys!

ArtifactFan65 · 2024-04-07T22:38:16+00:00

Good, let it all burn down 😇

giveuporfindaway · 2024-04-07T23:00:28+00:00

That's the first order effect. The knock on effects are that only conservative people reproduce. Which means voting power swings towards reducing women's rights.

FewSense1069 · 2024-04-08T03:21:04+00:00

I don't really get your arguments on this. Perhaps, providing more statistics and including more dimensions to this argument might give a clearer view on what you're trying to say.

obviousredflag · 2024-04-08T16:02:16+00:00

Men want the same amount of children as women. How does all of what you listed make men want less children?

SupposedlySapiens · 2024-04-08T17:15:49+00:00

This is a good thing though, since the planet is terribly overpopulated

nightsofthesunkissed · 2024-04-07T13:34:16+00:00

Late stage capitalism leads to population collapse.

Women can now choose whether or not they want children. Which is an objectively good thing unless you hate women and want them to suffer. But now we're choosing to not reproduce due to everything being so expensive (especially childcare), and the world is a festering shithole they don't want to bring kids into.

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2024-04-07T16:56:10+00:00

Equality my ass if they wanted equality they would be fighting for trade jobs and blue collar jobs but they ain't they want that white collar cushy job in climate control

januaryphilosopher · 2024-04-07T15:20:10+00:00

Pushed? Higher education has become increasingly inaccessible and expensive in most cases and women have had to fight to be able to be admitted and get actual degrees. And let me remind you that higher education in men is also correlated with a low birth rate.

AssistTemporary8422 · 2024-04-07T16:14:41+00:00

The biggest impact of feminism is on divorce rates and rates of voluntary female singleness as a response to high rates of sexual, physical, and emotional abuse by men. But its important to remember the impact of birth control and how it made it easier to have sex outside of marriage. This caused the normalization of sex outside of marriage and the decline of marriage. Then we have the rise of obesity, social isolation because of screen time, which made people less attractive in general and less likely to date. And the growing number of men who just want hookups and will lie to get it. Or how dating apps have dating far more shallow. Or how our wealth has allowed people especially women to support themselves while working and live alone. Don't forget the rising cost of living that has made raising a family less and less affordable. We also have social programs for the poor and elderly so there is less need for get into a relationship or people to live together. This is a far more complex picture than you are making it out to be.

sunologie · 2024-04-07T16:32:14+00:00

So what? Society will adapt, it always does.

roxannastr97 · 2024-04-07T18:26:49+00:00

It's the divine feminine return and the Kali Yuga age. Kali is Mother nature.

.good.

thetruthishere_ · 2024-04-08T02:01:49+00:00

How dare feminism lets women and men choose to have kids or not.

You are are foolish if you think women back in the day wanted all those kids, many didnt and were stuck.

Or you know the economy is not so great in many areas but lets 'claim feminism' instead of our crap government wasting money, parm companies running things, getting taxed to death, etc, etc.

Whoreasaurus_Rex · 2024-04-07T13:17:54+00:00

Good. Better for the planet.

KayRay1994 · 2024-04-07T16:47:49+00:00

a decreasing population, especially at this stage of things isn’t inherently a bad thing. Plus, I do believe that after populations drop for a bit and we’re in a place of economic and resource abundance, people will have more kids again.

I’d argue that its more correlation than causation - while late stage feminism has lead to tons of issues with women a general undervaluing of femininity as a social entity, it also has less to do with people not having kids than shitty economic conditions and by extension shitty social conditions (on all fronts, i won’t single out late stage feminism here as reactionary manosphere movements are precisely the type of men who should not breed + avid consumerism and general late stage capitalism arguably take far more of the blame)

63daddy · 2024-04-07T14:08:47+00:00

In the U.S., feminists lobbied for and won the women’s educational equity act which was about focusing on girls (to the detriment of boys) in education. This is when boys started falling behind. (Read Hoff-Sommer’s excellent book on this). We also see biased no boys allowed college prep programs, biased title ix interpretations, women only scholarships, etc.

At the same time we’ve passed laws advantaging women in job hiring and business ownership, not to mention supporting women owned businesses and hiring women over men has become very politically correct. We’ve also seen inflation outpace wages.

The result of all this and more is that far fewer men can support a family non their own and more women can’t marry up, thus the common attitude that there’s “no good men” these days.

Feminism has absolutely played a role in such gender balance restructuring and is part of modern dating problem, but I think it’s a bit extreme to claim modern feminism is going to cause a population collapse.

True_now · 2024-04-07T16:01:00+00:00

I mean there are still poor unedutacated people who makes babies and carry economy for rich

Title	Late stage feminism leads to population collapse
Author	qsdf321
Upvotes	9
Comments	494
Date	April 7, 2024 12:31 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1by3dwt/late_stage_feminism_leads_to_population_collapse/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/late-stage-feminism-leads-to-population-collapse.1514317 https://theredarchive.com/post/1514317

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