Are men not self sufficient or are women purposefully humbling those that are?

danskvand_uden_brus · 2021-06-06T13:13:34+00:00

I think most guys are stereotypically a little less concerned with presentation and structure compared to women, but speaking for myself as a single guy, i've been in multiple women's homes which were much messier and unstructured than my own, so I definitely translate your initial statement as coping.

Gilmoregirlin · 2021-06-06T16:57:57+00:00

I think that both genders should be self sufficient entering into the world today. So be able to support yourself financially, cook for yourself, clean, do laundry, manage checkbooks, change a tire, a lightbulb, etc live on your own. You should never rely upon the fact that you will A. Meet someone to marry or care for you or B. Even if you do that they will fill this role. I think in this day and age or at least I hope that parents are teaching these roles to their kids. In the past though I would fault parents for failing to teach sons traditionally female roles and daughters male roles. I am 43 but although in my generation it was not as common I was taught both roles. It was ingrained in me that being financially independent was important, and I am and was even though I am not married. I also was single for years so I can take care of a house on my own. My husband can cook and is a better cook than I. I was amazed when I was dating though men that could not do laundry, or men that could not change tires, or complete basic plumbing tasks in the home. I was also amazed when I was in law school at female friends that could get to 22 years of age and not manage a checkbook, or boil water. I guess I was lucky.

crookedsummer2019 · 2021-06-06T13:38:51+00:00

Lots of men are self sufficient, lots of men are not. Lots of women are self sufficient, lots of women are not.

The ability or inability to be self sufficient is not due to gender.

I see replies here about how men were the inventors and built societies, and yes it was mostly men who did those things.

Tell me, how many of the men posting about this have personally invented something or built a society? How many have personally started a war to get resources? I mean outside of whatever PC/ video game that features such things?

For those of you men who are here shitting on women while claiming that men are better at living then they are, then don’t live with them. Leave them be and go do your own thing.

NarniaFox · 2021-06-06T14:09:54+00:00

I'm from Russia, so dating climate and gender roles are bit a different here. And I do think that men are less sufficient than women because they tend not to take care of themselves when they're single. A lot of them just aren't taught to do so - to visit a doctor, take their pills in time, stick to a diet etc. But to be fair it's mostly true for older generations, things are getting a bit better nowadays.

I don't think there are a lot of stats about it in Russian and I doubt you could read it anyway, so here are some more or less objective data about it:

Statistically married men live longer:

A major survey of 127,545 American adults found that married men are healthier than men who were never married or whose marriages ended in divorce or widowhood. Men who have marital partners also live longer than men without spouses; men who marry after age 25 get more protection than those who tie the knot at a younger age, and the longer a man stays married, the greater his survival advantage over his unmarried peers.

Married men with prostate cancer tend to survive longer than single men:

Prostate cancer is a particular concern for men. To find out how marriage affects survival, scientists from the University of Miami investigated 143,063 men with the disease. Over a 17-year period, married men survived far longer (median 69 months) than separated and widowed patients (38 months); men who had never married had an intermediate survival rate (49 months). And researchers from Harvard and UCLA have identified similar survival benefits for married patients with bladder cancer, a predominantly male disease.

And men are more affected by their spouse's death:

The study tracked 12,522 married people over a 14- to 23-year period. During that time, 1,453 men and 3,294 women lost their spouses. Subsequently, 30% of the bereaved men died themselves, while only 15% of the women succumbed. Healthy men who lost a wife were 2.1 times more likely to die during the study period than healthy men who were not bereaved; for men with preexisting medical problems, bereavement boosted the rate of death 1.6 times.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/mens-health/marriage-and-mens-health

Married men are more likely to get health screenings:

Among men aged 18–64, those who were married were more likely than cohabiting men and other not-married men to have had a health care visit in the past 12 months.

https://blog.swedish.org/swedish-blog/married-men-are-more-likely-to-go-to-the-doctor-here-s-why

Asopaso07 · 2021-06-06T16:43:27+00:00

I think you had the right idea until you said a woman’s value is based off of her cooking and cleaning skills.

I’m assuming we are talking about the Western world so here goes.

Actually women are just as career minded, if not more, than men. Women dominate the education system now. A woman’s status is most definitely judged by her career and not cooking or cleaning skills. Women who choose to stay home and be mothers are kind of looked down upon and seen as unfeminist these days. Unless they have a job and plan on going back after child birth.

Now to come to your realisation, women have started to look down on men because women have stepped into the world of work in the last 70 years and have made huge advances but men still haven’t made space for things like domestic and child care skills within male culture and circles.

The world has become massively digital and everything is pretty much instant. I don’t think cooking and cleaning alone is the issue, since you could order and pay for these services instantly now but it’s men’s lack of desire to want a better diet, cleaner more presentable house, lack of desire to do 50/50 parenting or domestic labour etc.

Men are being seen as dead weight and the amount of women who go through artificial insemination has been on a sharp increase in the last year. Also, studies show that men live longer when married but women live longer and are generally happier when they are single.

Women find it easier to create tribes and be social and take care of themselves when alone but men aren’t as good. Marriage saves men but brings women down and it’s this responsibility along with already being independent and having a career which puts women off and makes them nag men.

wtknight · 2021-06-06T15:29:53+00:00

Men who are self-sufficient usually aren't self-sufficient enough for women, as women usually have higher standards for a home. I cleaned my place extensively before my now wife came to live with me. When she moved in one of the first things she did was remark how dirty it was even though it was clean by my standards.

Most self-sufficient men have a "I can cook simple food and I keep my place clean enough" standard that is good enough for them to function, but does not meet the typical woman's standards. Some men are man-children, though, but I don't think that the majority of men who are able to live on their own are.

houstongradengineer · 2021-06-06T13:24:56+00:00

Bold of you to assume that items in a shared home are automatically bought with a man's money. FOH. Women earn money too, nowadays. Are you rich enough to provide for a couple, or God forbid a family, with ALL your own money? Is that why you're on Reddit now? Cool story. Hardly any man is that well off anymore. Wake up and smell the 21st century, for better or for worse.

gimpgirl555 · 2021-06-06T13:30:49+00:00

A woman’s value in a relationship is based off of many things unlike men who are judged mainly off of their finances. Cooking and cleaning are just some things that can impact her value. It makes perfect sense for women to keep those type of attributes valuable and I believe they’re doing just that.
Men get shamed for eating simple meals, having simple decor, not having a spotless home, and even for the soap they use. Often time these men are fine with how they live until women comment on it. Home cooked meals are nice but he was fine eating frozen food, his 2 in 1 shampoo is good enough to him. “Turning a house into a home” is just code for spending his money on things that serve no purpose that he couldn’t care less about, then humble bragging about it at every chance.
What are your thoughts on my theory? Is this something women are doing on purpose? Are men more self sufficient than people think?

So if a woman doesn't cook and keep house, she's a bad wife/gf. But if she does cook and keep house, now she's keeping the man down?

"it's the wife, keeping me down, not letting me learn how to cook and clean... I'm oppressed man"

I'm sorry dude, but his is a whole new level of whining .

manfrom-nantucket · 2021-06-06T13:17:21+00:00

I have yet to meet a woman who is a minimalist.

milkyymochii · 2021-06-06T16:59:34+00:00

Eating microwave meals & no veggies every day, having piled up laundry & dishes, not even properly washing your ass, and not even having a bed frame is self sufficient for males. Doesn’t mean they’re exempt from getting laughed at and judged by women tho.

maggie805 · 2021-06-06T13:50:44+00:00

lol You think women want to be in relationships acting like mother’s to their spouses/partners? No, they don’t. Women want men who can hold their own, but that is not always easy to find. That being said, women are not holding some unrealistic bar over men’s heads… You’re seriously underestimating the number of men who do not pay their bills on time, who don’t clean their bathrooms or have sheets on their beds (maybe don’t even have a bed frame), who won’t load the dishwasher even though it’s right next to the sink (if the dishes even make it into the sink)… Are there sloppy women? Yes. Are sloppy women as common as sloppy men? No.

looozooop · 2021-06-06T14:43:06+00:00

It has nothing to do with spending his money but making responsible choices as an adult. Frozen meals are unhealthy and will end up costing more overtime. And you’re acting like men don’t find comfort in having a nice home, a meal, or good quality hygiene products. Most, if not all, do. You just don’t have to wait for a girlfriend to show you or help you with these things like some men do.

Personally, i grew up with 4 brothers and i will say that the one who is the least self sufficient is the one who always needs to be in a relationship & a bit unhappy without. He was single for a year and was asking me all sorts of questions, even basic stuff like hygiene products you get at the pharmacy. Men that fall into that category to even realize they are just doing themselves a disservice and i can imagine it can be annoying to be in a relationship with someone like that. My other brothers and my boyfriend aren’t like this though so it’s definitely not all men. But to answer your question: no, its not to purposely spend men’s money.

bxbatman1990 · 2021-06-06T18:06:33+00:00

Objectively speaking, men are more self-sufficient than women. Women are just not thrilled by the idea of mere sufficiency.

It's a reproductive strategy. Guys who are "messy" signal a disinterest in impressing a woman, and women don't like guys that are not driven to impress them. Which type of guy is more likely to produce wealth above susbsitance, then share it? Probably not the guy that gives zero fucks and is content on those terms.

As for women purposefully humbling... it's not explicitly purposeful, it's just how women exert control, outside of seduction. Men use force and/or the threat of force to maintain or exert control. Women use word of mouth; Shaming, gossip, cries for help/sympathy etc.

If a guy is signaling passivity and Indifference towards female expectations it threatens female capacity to extract resources, so it has to be shamed so that the attitude doesn't catch on.

queen_beastmode · 2021-06-06T18:21:12+00:00

I have a lot of single male friends who cook real food and have their own homes with the usual selection of furniture. Men who function like adults exist.

truthteller8 · 2021-06-06T18:29:51+00:00

It's not as prominent as women online make it seem. I'm not sure exactly what "self sufficient" means, but speaking as an adult single man, I know how to stay employed, vacuum, run the dishwasher, run the washer and dryer, change the windshield wiper fluid, and a whole bunch more tasks that would probably fall under the guise of self sufficiency.

And many of the men I work with also seem to have some knowledge of how to run shit in their lives without a woman telling them how not to die.

I'm not exactly sure where the "guys just sit around playing video games all day and don't even know how to flush the toilet" trope comes from, but it's definitely not as common in real life as women online seem to make it from what I can tell. Seems like a coping mechanism from women after being rejected by chad.

Zevluvxxx · 2021-06-06T18:59:10+00:00

If you had ever entered a female’s living space you would know that this is not at all gender specific lmao. You’re just a slobby individual. Have basic minimum standards of living. Home cooked meals are cheaper and objectively better than frozen. 2 in 1 shampoo fucks your hair up. If you want people (not only women) to think of you as a mature adult, you need to adopt basic minimum standards of living. If you don’t, don’t expect people to not judge you because you’re literally refusing to do what adults do.

_that_dam_baka_ · 2021-06-06T19:10:07+00:00

Home cooked meals are nice but he was fine eating frozen food,

If the meal is healthy, then fine.

“Turning a house into a home” is just code for spending his money on things that serve no purpose that he couldn’t care less about, then humble bragging about it at every chance.

Yes.

.

There was an episode on wife swap about the husbands actually just going with what their wives wanted. Both the old and the new. And both the husband were actually cool with the new rules.

Here and here. My mom didn't want me in the kitchen for a while, but she was afraid of me making a mess. (You better watch these, btw. I just found out YouTube has Wife Swap as like a p*rny thing cz I went looking for these.)

The only thing I've realised is that my standards of cleanliness are higher than most of my friends. That's because my mom's ideas on “cleanliness” make me think either she or someone ancestor of hers has/ had OCD.

Let's just say I saw the government notification on hand hygiene and we'd been doing more than that for decades.

reluctantly_red · 2021-06-06T23:42:41+00:00

Men get shamed for eating simple meals, having simple decor, not having a spotless home, and even for the soap they use.

Peanut butter toast is a meal, furniture comes from Craigslist, clean is more important than uncluttered, and little bars of soap come from hotels. What more does a guy need to know?

AlanWanker99 · 2021-06-06T13:11:21+00:00

Isn't this just projection? A woman cares about X, Y and Z. She sees a man who doesn't do X, does not buy Y, and doesn't care about Z. Woman decides there must be something wrong with the man.

TheSnowyPlover · 2021-06-06T14:33:07+00:00

When women push these sorts of arguments it’s usually tied into “where are all the marriage worthy men?!?” Narrative. The issue isn’t that the guy can’t take care of himself it’s that he gives off the impression that he can’t provide the sort of lifestyle that would appeal to a woman. In reality, Most men are great at subsisting, but that’s not very appealing to your average woman

Mothra3 · 2021-06-06T15:42:07+00:00

[deleted]

cowfishAreReal · 2021-06-06T12:52:53+00:00

Well, I always thought that men could be self sufficient, I know a lot of men that are, and any adult without disabilities that was born into reasonable financial condition should be able to. But the men in this sub whining that they can't get a gf don't really seem self sufficient

angels-fan · 2021-06-06T14:17:08+00:00

Women are beholden to their FSM, which will harshly judge both her parenting and her domestic living space.

That's why women do so much more domestic labor than men. They care what the cunts in their FSM think about their house. If it's dirty or cluttered or just not decorated well, she will be the subject of gossip by the neighborhood hags.

Men just don't have this same pressure. Men have a different social matrix that values different things.

vial_of_music · 2021-06-06T15:44:48+00:00

Have you ever heard the term man child or women warn other women to not date “mommas boys” it’s because some men have a mother who think they can do nothing wrong, so they grow up to be adults who know nothing of picking up after themselves.

Adventurous_Health93 · 2021-06-06T16:35:53+00:00

I think women, from an early age are pressured into being a house keeper. They are judged based on how they keep their homes so when women finally get to see how a man lives it's easy to judge because we've been judged as children and it's only fair to hold men to the same standards we are held too. Personally as a kid, I was told I had to do all the laundry, dishes and go grocery shopping to help my adult father who apparently wasn't capable of doing any of that. I also noticed as children, girls bedrooms are always ridiculed for having clothes everywhere and generally being messy, but when a boy has piss jugs and trash everywhere it's just boys being boys. I don't think women tear down men to keep them dependent, I think if a woman were to talk badly about another mans way of life it's because at one point someone instilled into them that a lot of their worth comes from how clean their home is, I mean women are expected to be organized and clean and take care of everything so it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone when women say men aren't self sufficient especially when were specifically taught growing up how to go the extra mile to take care of men.

WhenYouHitYourToe · 2021-06-06T20:03:28+00:00

I'm a guy that doesn't like a mess in my room and I hate not taking care of my hygiene. In my experience, guys' places are generally chaos and I rarely have that when visiting women.

billsull_02842 · 2021-06-07T03:53:14+00:00

women go in the work place and take jobs away from men so they cant be self sufficient. and these same women look for that other paycheck to support them

DaisyFayeLove · 2021-06-06T13:19:50+00:00

It’s not about gender it’s personality. Some people need a relationship and can’t be happy or self sufficient without one. I know as many women who feel useless when single as men. Men are more simple in terms of needs, they are in general less fussy and get straight to the point in terms of what they want. Women tend to be more fussy, yes stereotypical but some what true...I think anyway. In fact, men tend to be ok with the bachelor lifestyle more so than single women. I don’t think women are dumbing down men, I think we are just showing that we are equal and women are no less intelligent or capable than a man. I honestly think our capabilities are equal but we think differently

nemma88 · 2021-06-06T16:14:56+00:00

The only Incel I ever dated didn't change his socks for a week, every week. Most time I didn't even care that much, but the one time I asked him to change because we had people coming over he threw a tantrum. This was a man over 30. It was at that point I wondered why I was even there anymore.

On the flip side I have met men who are more together than me.

The slobby ones just stick in your mind I think.

rft24 · 2021-06-06T16:46:04+00:00

i think women just tend to have higher standards, period. not just in dating, but in all areas of their lives.

men’s idea of bare minimum is like in hell compared to women’s lmfaooooo

Hellsteelz · 2021-06-06T13:11:34+00:00

It's because girls in general don't want to be associated with homes that look like bachelor pads while being together with a guy. Why some girls mock guys for this I will never understand.

midwestufohunter · 2021-06-06T17:00:15+00:00

They get shamed bc it’s below women’s standards and women don’t want to live like that. Women are free to think and say that.

Indis96 · 2021-06-06T13:03:23+00:00

I see a lot of women say that men aren’t self sufficient and can barely function like an adult.

Yet men have built 95% of all things in the world that we take for granted today.The world we live in today was literally built of a mans back...

Last time I checked women were not the ones leading, waging wars for resources, building up whole towns and cities from the ground up...A mans core purpose in life is to ''conquer'' aka find what you truly love in life, and 'work' towards it.

Dont women find men that have a ''mission'' in life as one of the most attractive traits that you can have?

Hmmm..

Cooking and cleaning are just some things that can impact her value. It makes perfect sense for women to keep those type of attributes valuable and I believe they’re doing just that.

Men get shamed for eating simple meals, having simple decor, not having a spotless home, and even for the soap they use.

Oh wow, the amount of times I had girl-friends comment on my choice of style in my apartment was comedic, since I couldnt give a rats ass about decor that realistically serves no purpose in my life... (So yes, swallong TRP today, I can blantly see why they ''cared'' about something that was so trivial in my head.)

Duh, yet you have SJW and femininazis that try so depserately to try convince us this is not true.

''Woman dont have to learn to cook and clean, thats sexist, that is the old traditional way of thinking''.

ok buddy.

Often time these men are fine with how they live until women comment on it.

This is why marketing is so huge on the womans side, that the official stats is that woman consume 80% of all consumer goods in the world.

Men create > Women consume (Most cases)

“Turning a house into a home” is just code for spending his money on things that serve no purpose that he couldn’t care less about, then humble bragging about it at every chance.

Men couldnt give a rats ass about acquiring materialistic posessions if there was no women in this world. That collection of Fancy cars, nice dress suits, a big house, etc are sub-conciously to attract and prove to others that ''your the man''. This is also why minimalism is ever so popular now, people realise its all BS and boils down to attracting the opposite sex... Me as a man, why should I actually bother wearing suit's to stand out from the crowd, instead of wearing casual/comfy. For what actual reason in a scenario where woman dissapeared from the planet should I put the extra effort for?

You remove woman out the equation completely, most men dont need all those bells and whistles, we are happy to just chill with the bare minimum to get by without women and society telling us that we need this and that all the time... Look at the countless examples out there:

spending his money on things that serve no purpose that he couldn’t care less about

- Lenny Kravitz from the high life, now he literally lives out in nature, grows his own food, minimal materialism that would not of hinted that he was a world super star at one point in his life. He realised its all a facade deep down.

-Same for Elon Musk, he sold most of his mansions and possessions, he knows its BS. Hes got a family, hes want to better humanity, he has nothing else to prove but be on his purpose...

Woman see a big ass clock on wall as ''useful'' in 'decor' men realise its not that practicial to be 100% honest, I can look at the time on my kitchens microwave, or on my phone, or watch etc... That decorative clock on the wall is 'useless' garbage...

Men are happy living in a smaller house, they dont need 5 different supercars, they dont need to care about how they dress and present themselves in public with no woman around, men dont need to act as if they are the shit for paying a $600 dinner tab in front of their dates.

Its all materialistic garbage on the mans part imho...

Women use ''shame'' to manipulate men into guilt, yet last time I checked, men are and still more self-efficient than women EVER will be. And thats the truth.

Go cry to god about it...

TryLambda · 2021-06-06T13:06:40+00:00

Men are constantly shamed by women, as this is the tools of manipulation women use to control men.

Men are far better at self sufficiently, we are biological bigger and stronger, can do a lot of hard manual labour that a woman can not physically do. Get a group of men, drop them off in a jungle and they will survive 30days no problem, get a group of women and drop them off in a jungle and they will tear each other apart in the first day, as women are not culturally designed to co-operate, they are designed to manipulate, that's their survival tool, to manipulate.. mens survival tools are to solve real world physical problems and thrive on it.

Luscious-Grass · 2021-06-06T14:26:36+00:00

You are off base, sorry.

Women simply like to live more elaborately than men, largely because they want to be able to entertain and show off their homes and create social fabric based around meals, and comfortable home environments, etc. So women judge men based on their own standard, as is human nature.

Men don't care about entertaining and they don't compete with each other based around how good of a job they do of it.

So most men are self-sufficient based on their own standard, which is typically very simple, to your point.

But a man who wants to be in a relationship with a woman needs to adapt somewhat to the woman's standard or else he is in for a world of pain.

And if you think about it as assisting the woman to do her job of fostering extended family social relationships, it's not so bad. Men, in my opinion, do themselves a disservice when they bitch and refuse to embrace a woman's desire for a more elaborate standard of living and dismiss it as frivolous. Women are in charge of maintaining the social life that men also NEED and do a poor job themselves of maintaining. Men should appreciate this.

And fool the value of women is not cleaning.

buntyisbest · 2021-06-06T13:30:16+00:00

Based on my observations, recent generations (millennials, Gen-Z, etc.) of men are much more self-sufficient than past generations were and in some cases, they're more self-sufficient than the women of current generations. Most working men nowadays can cook their own meals. We're perfectly capable of cleaning the house on our own and I would argue we generally do a better job at that than most women. Most millennial women barely know how to boil an egg, let alone make a lavish 3-course meal, like our mothers and grandmothers used to do. And the worst part is, they're proud of the fact that they can't cook the most basic meals or diligently perform the most basic household chores. I've seen this issue with my roommates when I was in college and I've seen it with some of my single female friends.

Again, just my observation!

PoliticsIsBroken · 2021-06-06T13:11:03+00:00

In what universe are women more self sufficient? Men are far more independent and less homogenized. They invent more, work harder, spend less, and are less of a tax burden.

Alfredaux · 2021-06-06T15:11:41+00:00

I think there are two major things (well, more, but two come to mind first).

Women are socialized to be caretakers and home makers. They have certain standards and approaches and view them as the “correct” way.
Many men don’t get taught how to clean or cook and so they DO need help for a better quality of life. But this shouldn’t HAVE to be a partner.

AbsolutelyNobody0 · 2021-06-06T17:29:18+00:00

It's a difference in standards. Let's use the example of dusting or vacuuming.

On average, men will accept a dirtier environment than women. When a woman thinks something NEEDS to be cleaned, the dude is thinking that it'll fine for another month or so.

Since he is fine with things in their current state, he won't do anything about it. She'll end up getting bothered by it being 'dirty' and eventually clean things herself. She looks at that as "doing all the cleaning" while he looks at her as "kinda OCD but it's not getting in the way so it's fine."

Hoopy223 · 2021-06-06T18:07:29+00:00

Its a coping mechanism. “I can’t find a good guy because they are all overgrown manchildren” type of thing.

Banned_BY_SOYMEN · 2021-06-06T12:54:53+00:00

Single men are much more independent than single women. Think about how much unpaid assistance and labor women get done for them just by being a woman.

NoCardiologist8249 · 2021-06-06T16:41:09+00:00

Uh no. Looking at women’s skin and their hair, it’s usually much better maintained than a man’s. So his two in one shampoo may be good enough for him but he doesn’t realize that it is not good.

Frozen meals are unhealthy. Usually high in fat, sodium, and other preservatives. A home cooked meal is certainly a better option, health wise.

Based on what you’re describing, men do what’s good enough for them without the knowledge that better options exist. Many men will even admit that they enjoy using the products their girlfriends/wives introduce them to because they’re superior to what they’ve been using.

Feisty-Friend9227 · 2021-06-06T16:42:52+00:00

They’re talking about Chad who doesn’t need to cook for himself or keep a tidy room. They’re not talking about the ugly guy who’s got his life together but is alone all the time.

SaBahRub · 2021-06-06T14:15:04+00:00

“Self sufficient” is not “socially functional”

filthyburrows · 2021-06-06T14:04:38+00:00

you need a home to raise children and that is the fundamental understanding that I think is missing from your post

Physiologist21 · 2021-06-06T16:17:42+00:00

Same reason women dont like frugal men. It signals to their reptile brain that his man is smart with his money and wont buy me my 5000 dollar crystal table so I can tell Becky all about it. When you realize most women just men as utilities and not people it makes a lot of sense.

M_LaSalle · 2021-06-06T16:30:46+00:00

"Are men not self sufficient or are women purposefully humbling those that are?"

Yes.

Guys living alone don't live like guys who live as half of a couple. Nothing surprising about that. As half of a couple you have to adapt to the other half. If that means I can't be a minimalist and I have to put up with new carpet in the living room and repainting, then that's OK. The flip side of that is she has to be visually pleasing and a good lay. No matter who you are, you have to be worth the other person's effort.

No matter how good she is in bed, she's not messing with my home office/library/study if she knows what's good for her, and she will have a room/space/desk of her own that I'm keeping my filthy hands off of.

Erwinblackthorn · 2021-06-06T16:51:12+00:00

Men are designed to be entirely self sufficient. Women who change a man from being such train him to depend on her with her presence. A man never gets to eat what he wants or what when he's with a woman, because he has to share with her or go by what she can cook.

Most men I know decorate their houses with what they want, they cook better than the women I know, and they have zero problem living on their own. Dependancy on another is just having a second mother or second father. Why the hell would anyone put themselves in that kind of situation willingly? It's absent mindedness that causes that kind of dependancy.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-06-06T14:58:34+00:00

I don't think there's a singular answer here. There are both single and taken men who are and aren't self-sufficient. Women who get self-sufficient men are relieved that they have someone who can pick up the slack from time to time (because they may be less self-sufficient) and women who get men that aren't self-sufficient put up with it because of feelings or some combination of the pros outweighing the cons.

ronak1112roshan · 2021-06-06T16:05:23+00:00

Its a simple thing: Keep it stupidly simple.

I personally do not like to consume shit I don't need. Why not buy a 2 in 1 shampoo + conditioner if its 5$ cheaper than the shampoo and conditioner bought together? I will only use it twice a week as it is.

Extremely__Moderate · 2021-06-06T16:28:32+00:00

I find the beauty of being a man being that I can do what I want in regards to my personal life, as long as my work life is in order. Money = Freedom.

Now, if you‘re young, and your money isn’t in order, you have to be willing to be more agreeable with those who have resources you need/want.

Once you get to a certain point in your life, if you have focused on your ability to make money, everything else just falls into place.

Money. Is. Everything.

jorsian · 2021-06-06T17:02:23+00:00

Purposely*

Lost-Tip3590 · 2021-06-06T17:27:43+00:00

A lot of it is probably self conscious.

I'd add: if changing something made any practical difference in dating or sex, then maybe I'd consider doing something different.

Real_Vents · 2021-06-06T18:44:32+00:00

I like your theory, it holds a lot of truth, but I feel like what you said can be extended and broadened to society as a whole rather than the sexes. People think they HAVE to do this, or MUST do that to be seen "acceptable" to everyone else, but life is far more simpler than that.

All these expectations and standards are ideals trying to push an agenda (capitalism) and lifestyle that should be seen as optional, when in reality a person's health and feelings matter far more.

IntrospectThyself · 2021-06-06T18:59:53+00:00

I wouldn’t be surprised if some women semi-consciously lean into this critique of men in order to get a leg up in a way as to potentially setting up the value they might bring into a man’s life.

Yet, moreover, I think how we parse self-sufficient with low maintenance and with self-neglect is probably most relevant as these are POV’s.

As one commenter posted, yes men who are married live longer and are happier etc. I understand this to be a benefit of companionship foremost and perhaps secondarily a benefit of being with a person (if we are assuming hetero context) who has the opposite socialization. The opposite socialization namely is that of being able to acknowledge the value of emotions, relationships and in turn “smaller” quality of life things (which may not be so small in the long run) and care/self-care which men are not socialized to value. My two cents.

NameGiver0 · 2021-06-06T19:10:40+00:00

I see a lot of women say that men aren’t self sufficient and can barely function like an adult. I disagree with that but I think some women are saying that as a way to keep men dependent on them, not because they actually believe it.

It’s pure projection.

WhenTheGodsLaugh · 2021-06-06T23:03:59+00:00

There are the emotional children (male and female) that never grow up and are hell to live with, but you seem to be describing blatantly sexist women. That thinking has to go on both sides of the fence. Sexists of both types just love hiding in truths about both genders that they try to pin on only one. There are some extremely insufficient women and real adult women realize this. Just because it is over 25 does not make it an adult. I'm sorry you've had to deal/listen to sexists like this. Real adult women support you and men are lovely.

All that being said, because in many places men were in control of everything (jobs, government, the house) for a long time, certain cultures still have a habit of over catering to dudes. This can result in men who litterally cannot function on their own without some female to take care of them. Or in a lot of cases just refuse to take care of themselves. From people I know in Spain, this is really serious issue for men around 40+. That generation of men, who hold down jobs, cannot wrap their minds around what to buy to make a simple sandwich. Their male and female children do not have this problem, but that generation plus of guys have a really serious life knowledge gap. The real life stories I have been told are mind boggling. Those kind of men do have a very real problem and need to pull on their adult pants and learn how to be an adult human. You do see this in American culture too (not sure where you are from). I know of 20 dudes off the top of my head who just refused to take on adult responsibilities and instead shoved everything off onto their mom and significant other with zero cares as to what it did to that person. But, I know of 20 women off the top of my head who have done the same.

Willow-girl · 2021-06-07T01:28:38+00:00

LOL, I remember my boyfriend telling me about how, early in our relationship, a buddy of his dropped by, looked around the yard and said, "I see you have a woman living with you now. " (Or something to that effect)

erice3r · 2021-06-07T08:43:41+00:00

Dealing with stereotypes/tendencies based on the genetic and hormonal differences here:

In our evolutionary history men and women had separate roles and our genes were selected sometimes based on how well we fulfilled those roles so we could survive and reproduce. Women tend to be better at: maternal care, looking carefully to find things, hygiene, nesting/ home building. Men are more aggressive and violent so they are better hunters and fighters. Since we evolved as a society, none of us could survive without each other in the Jungle!

However, humans are smart, so a man or woman could certainly survive on their own if they have discipline and hard work — it’s just easier to divide the labor!

YMaedchen · 2021-06-07T19:16:13+00:00

I mean I don't really care about a guys decorating skills but I'd definetly see it as a red flag if he can't cook and doesn't bother to learn it. He might be ok with frozen meals, but I wouldn't want that for our future kids. So that guy seems less like husband material. Same with housework. His house doesn't have to be spotless. But I wouldn't date a guy if his house is a complete mess on a regular basis.

neetykeeno · 2021-06-07T21:13:27+00:00

I am of the opinion that if a woman wants a truly comfy home, she is probably best off forgoing men altogether. The women who obsess about whether he sleeps on a mattress on the floor or has a bed are in the bargaining phase of grief. Even the men who value a well put together living environment tend to abandon all efforts in that direction once they are in a relationship and know that the woman faces more societal pressure than them to tidy up the place. Don't waste your efforts, girl.

TenderHeartToxicFart · 2021-06-09T07:22:04+00:00

Women need 2 thousand dollar pillow shams to feel comfortable and not have a meltdown about how unfair the world is.

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rosesonthefloor · 2021-06-06T14:21:36+00:00

There are a lot of men who are self-sufficient.

There are also a lot of men who live at home, work a minimum wage job (or no job at all) and have no plan for the future.

I’m sure this is true for women as much as men, but ‘not having your shit together’ seems to be less of a negative to men than women.

Kizka · 2021-06-06T15:50:55+00:00

I think it comes down to generations. I guess with Millenials and younger, men would be able to do fine if they had to. In my experience, they choose helplessness while in a relationship because it's easier. But with older generations the men would be fucked. My dad, who has always been a pasha told his male family member to not fuck it up with his relationship because he acknowledged that they would be fucked without their women. They don't know how to cool, how to use the washing machine, which cleaning stuff to use for what, when they need to make doctor appointments or what even is the name and number of their doctor, they basically don't know anything besides how to go to work. And if you're already over 60 it's rare that you actually start to learn to do those things.

sigma1932 · 2021-06-07T09:56:59+00:00

It's female solipsism at work-- Women think men can't function as adults because the ones who can and do are avoiding those women... so the women think those men don't exist.

A woman’s value in a relationship is based off of many things unlike men who are judged mainly off of their finances.

That's purely on women, not men. Women are the ones focused heavily on a man's finances, because that "leveled-up" (LOL) superficial/materialistic bullshit lifestyle is what they measure their own success by... they'd rather be with the guy who can pay someone to remodel their bathroom rather than the guy who can actually do the work himself and cut the labor cost out of the equation.

Title	Are men not self sufficient or are women purposefully humbling those that are?
Author	hesipullupjimbo445
Upvotes	0
Comments	427
Date	June 6, 2021 12:45 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ntky6y/are_men_not_self_sufficient_or_are_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-men-not-self-sufficient-or-are-women.780326 https://theredarchive.com/post/780326

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