#MenAreAwesome

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And this is why I think the MensRights sub has turned into a pathetic, circle jerk joke. Men cant even be proud of their achievements now without it being twisted around as somehow offensive to women (Oh, and trans idiots).

Most of you here wouldnt even know what it means to be a man.

You have completely the wrong idea on what being 'equal' is.

Yes, men and women are equal. EQUALLY OPPOSITE! Two halves. Yin Yang. Night and day. One can not exist without the other.

Forcing on men and women the notion that we are equally the same and trying to be what the other half is is where you're fucking it all up. And trans people? You dont know what the fuck youre doing.

Watch me get down voted to shit. But watch you all realise Im right when you grow up and get your shit together!

I do not think this is the kind of thing we should be promoting. We are not based on comparing men against women, just supporting men's rights.

Wow. On a mens rights sub we can not celebrate the achievements of men. No one made the comparison except you. You fabricated it in your mind that the poster was an attack on women. Then you told men to be silent about their achievements because it might offend women and the rights of women come first.

just supporting men's rights

Yeah? Well I celebrate the right for men to be proud of their achievements. Especially in the name of supporting and protecting their families.

[–]Ezreal3 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TranscendentalEmpire-12 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jesting76614 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What's popular in your corner of the internet is not how the entire country thinks.

Oh christ, do I have to give you an example?

How about the "The Force Is Female" T-shirt that the director of The Last Jedi stated he proudly liked to wear?

Jesus I mean if you haven't been paying attention, maybe the person who needs to get out more is YOU!

Why are you listening to radical feminist? No one listens to radical feminist, not even feminist.

1) That was years ago

2) Because I was able to avoid bringing up the topic of gender rights every session and focused strictly on honing my craft.

3) Oh, NO feminist listens to radical feminists? Name one who not only ignores them but fights against their toxic ideas? And no, Cassie Jaye and Christina Hoff Sommers don't count because they aren't considered feminists anymore by their own movement.

Who? Who thinks it's controversial? The shut down House of Cards on Kevin Spacey's ass over a mee too thing. I've literally not talked to a single person about the Mee too movement outside the internet.

I'm talking about male victims sharing their stories using the hash tag in general.

The only reason guys like Terry Crews are believed is because their perpetrators were male. If they were female, you'd think their story would've even made it to news outlets?

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[–]orcscorper 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You didn't say it, the comment above yours misquoted it as "Boys are mean...". The point is, you interpreted a positive statement as combative, but saying (even in jest) that boys should have rocks thrown at them gets no response from you. It's like you are so used to seeing shit like that, that you don't see it at all; it's background noise. You only said it was combative and immature after you were called out, and you are still doing the false equivalency thing. It's just not the same.

your mother made you

Wrong. It takes two to tango. She incubated me; both parents made me. If she could have laid off the brandy for a few months, I might have better impulse control, or not. Hard to say. But hey, I'm not a piece of shit who claims the moral high ground while using "retarded" as an insult. My dad raised me better than that.

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IDK as someone who works in a construction type of field I have never met a woman who was an actual construction worker. If they are in the construction field they are either a receptionist or they stand around holding a sign while getting paid the same as the guys running the jack hammers and shovels and they make the same money because of unions. I do think its the kind of thing that will get a bad response tho because the obvious reaction from someone who hates men is ewww see men think they are the only people doing the hard stuff in society. Even tho we are the overwhelming majority in hazordous jobs.

I think they could have pointed out in a better way that people often don't think about the many things around them that just keep society running and the fact that the majority of people who make those things are men while there are also women who make those things as well. In my field / Door Technician I have never had a female co-worker and never met a female with this occupation it is from my experience 100% men.

[–]Flavius_Stilicho476 36 points37 points38 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]GunsRfuns 32 points33 points34 points 8 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Yep, not once in my life. Never seen one dig a hole either or run a jackhammer. I also don't expect them too I just think we deserve more respect than we get because we are willing to do those things. We are built for it. I also think they deserve the respect for the things they do like raising kids and generally making the world a more beautiful place.

The women who annoy me are the ones who complain about male domination in only the fields that they see as desirable. Like I don't go around complaining about women dominating modeling or the fact that they are the majority of stay at home parents. I mean I would love to be a stay at home dad and have my job be grocery shopping cooking cleaning the house and raising kids I would bet that more than 90% of stay at home parents are women and its well known that women make around 75% more when it comes to modeling. Like modeling sounds like an insanely desirable job you get gawked at all day long and basically just have to be good at looking good and being photogenic. But I also understand that women are better for those jobs in the same way that men are better suited to be CEOs and construction workers.

When I was younger I worked at a ski rental shop and I was talking to one of the girls who worked there and I complained about the fact that when young men are hired they start the job repairing skis and doing rentals while the girls who got hired started in the company as cashiers and I was complaining about it. It was funny because she then stated that she actually wishes she would have started as a ski tech rental person instead of a cashier. Many women actually want some of the jobs men usually do and many men want some of the jobs women usually do and I think a lot of the problem is just that people aren't willing to tell their employers what they actually want and also that I think employers often understand that women are better for certain jobs and men are better for certain jobs.

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I truly wish there were a way where the good qualities of male-identifying individuals could be appreciated.

As long as we see acknowledging the achievements of men as an attacks against femininity, there will be no way to appreciate men for things that women aren't as likely to do as well.

Male disposability and the social expectation for men to provide is all based on men pride. Men generally like to be proud, and we should not let feminists and white knights ruin our pride just because they're not included. It's like silencing the idea that women can be proud for giving birth to all of us, because men didn't give birth to anyone. But giving birth is a big thing we should be thankful for women. So why can't women be thankful for us for building stuff?

And I don't even think it's about individuals building stuff. I didn't build shit. But while women demonize men in the eye of society because toxic masculinity, some feel the need (imo rightfully so) to bring up positive stuff about men, which I think is far more productive then attacking feminism.

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You are not reading the picture right. It is everything you see the photograph being built by man the pole being built by man and everything else in the picture.

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You're obviously not paying too much attention to this subreddit if that "not what MRAs are doing."

This whole community has gradually but noticeably shifted over time from reasoned discussion of legitimate societal inequalities and diplomatic inadequacies to just a full-on persecution complex with a weird subtext of being anti-woman and pro-masculinity (but only the right kinds of masculinity.)

I don't even feel completely comfortable lurking discussions as a gay man anymore after the number of times I've offered my opinion only to be told, totally unironically, that being gay means I'm "feminized" and therefore I'm the problem and my opinions don't matter.

Can we have a discussion about something of substance and not just a cherry-picked feedback loop of complaining about what "the enemy" is saying?

This community viscerally hate "feminists," but lacks the self-awareness to see that it's become "meninists."

[–]Lethn 17 points18 points19 points 8 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]SoulUnison -3 points-2 points-1 points 8 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

I'm not "obviously lying," I'm expressing my opinion and my experiences, holy hell.
You're never going to actually participate in a real debate on good faith if your reaction to someone else's life is that it's "a lie."

Sorry, but the most upvoted threads and comments don't seem to be the ones with real issues like workplace safety or custody law, but rather just the lowest-common-denominator "Look what those feminists are doing!" or "Aren't men amazing?" circlejerks. That sort of low-effort posting used to be called out and moderated around here, but now it seems to be what the sub most embraces.

But, I mean, you already flatly admit that you're not actually trying to have a conversation but rather just trolling, it's just that it's important that people can see that someone is willing to visibly push back against your and not just let your words stand as fact.

...encourages me to piss all of you off completely in response...

That's basically the definition of trolling.

[–]Lethn 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SoulUnison1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's exactly what I meant by "Calvinball."

Now you're trying to pretend you said something different than you did, when the original statement is literally just a scroll up the screen and available in plain text.

Also, yet again we're seeing a complete disregard for any of the anti-male propaganda and people immediately dogpiling anything that's pro-men which frankly, only encourages me to piss all of you off completely in response since you're showing just how biased your being.

Your statement had nothing to do with someone commenting on the nature of this community or "low effort posting." You yourself say it's a reaction to people agreeing on anything that's not "pro-men."

Your reaction to someone sharing their experiences is "you're lying," but it only took you something like 4 or 5 posts to be actually, literally, stupidly-poorly lying. You can't retroactively change statements or contexts, and when you do so knowingly we have a word for that: again, "lying."

Plus, now you stated in your own words and doubled down that you intentionally try to anger people who run afoul of your sensibilities, so why the hell would I want to "debate" with you? It's obviously just going to be you trying to hit a nerve and then going "I win!" when the other person stops trying to break through your childishness and walks away.

[–]Lethn9 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Again, you're the one who came here to get pissed off at MRAs, you're the one who deliberately looked at this thread, clicked on it, then have proceeded to write posts about how bad this sub is.

You yourself say it's a reaction to people agreeing on anything that's not "pro-men."

No, it's a reaction to people being anti-male and going after people who post anything that's pro-men, again, you're the one who's lying here and you were dumb enough to quote me accurately.

At least people who have tried to argue with me about what I have and haven't posted in the same fucking thread were intelligent enough to not to quote me but your something else. I suppose I should thank you though, you've saved me the effort because Reddit is pretty annoying for finding your own or specific user comments.

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Feminists are constantly saying shit about how the future is female, men are useless, the world would be a better place without men, etc etc...

So how is a post reminding people of men’s contributions to civilization an “incel” type comment. I guess hoping men could get a little appreciation instead of constant contempt totally equates to hating women?

This incel shit is getting ridiculous.. People throw this insult around constantly now even though things will have absolutely nothing to incels.

Incels were a sub of men that are involuntarily celibate. They spent their time talking about how horrible women are , how women don’t want to sleep with them and spreading hatred and contempt towards the female gender.

Please explain to me how this post exemplifies that type of behavior? Whats so bad about reminding society that our world would look a lot different if it weren’t for all the hard work that men have contributed towards building, repairing and maintaining our civilization?

If this sign would have made some kind of negative comments towards women then yeah I can understand.... but just because something shines a positive light of men doesn’t automatically mean it’s shining a negative light on women. Did this sign say women don’t contribute anything towards society? No, it didn’t...

You guys are the ones putting those negative meanings and intentions behind this poster.

[–]why7991 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mikealoped 57 points58 points59 points 8 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthCerebroX 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

and that they owe us something for it.

Once again, this is you making false assumptions and putting things in your own context with your own meanings. Nothing in this poster implies that.

Just because we highlight men’s contributions, it doesn’t mean we’re putting down women, acting superior or implying men are owed things. These are all projections you guys keep putting on it and this sub.

Our world would also look a lot different if women weren't in it.

Yeah, no shit... I never said otherwise. Women’s contributions towards society have been and still are just as important as men’s, even if they are different. But go ahead and assume I think otherwise and I’m just some kind of incel woman hater or some shit.

I’ll guess we’ll have to remember going forward that anytime we want to celebrate men’s accomplishments or make men feel valued... i guess we need to remember to always put a disclaimer that women are important too otherwise people will assume we are sexist or misogynistic.

SMFH...

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[–]AloysiusC -2 points-1 points0 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I think the problem with it is that it implies women did not have a hand in building our society

That's largely correct. Like it or not, women have contributed little more than the females of any other species - namely their offspring - to civilization. Funny how people are so quick to blame men for all the evil in the world yet have a hell of a time accepting that men are also responsible for nearly all the good in the world.

and that they owe us something for it

No. If that's the way you read it, that just means you engage in collectivist thinking regarding men and women. It's not a competition.

Our world would also look a lot different if women weren't in it.

Of course. But if you took all the accomplishments, discoveries, breakthroughs that women contributed away, things wouldn't be much different. If you did the same with men's contributions, we'd literally just be living like animals.

[–]Mikealoped 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"their offspring"...who are they?

Oh right, males. Do I think it's right to blame men for all the evil of the world? No. Do I think it's right to blame men for all the success of the world? No. We want equal rights? Stop acting like one sex contributed more than the other. Men wouldn't have been able to build these cities if women hadn't been behind them building the household to create more men to build more cities. Also, social pressure prohibited women from taking active part in building the cities, so of course men did all of the work. What do you expect people to take from this sign? Everyone knows the workforce was primarily male dominated.

The only thing I see as a desired outcome of this is:

"oh! Right! Men built this! So we actually owe them a debt of gratitude for the life we have today!".

Do you think men could have done this if they didn't have women taking care of the home while they did it? Women raised each generation because the men were out building cities. They are just as vital to the structure of our society as men are. If you don't see that...to be honest I don't have the words to explain it to you. I'm not a persuasive person. I can tell you that nothing about you would be the same without the female influences of your life. And if you wouldn't be the same, do you really think all those men who also had female influences in their lives would have been able to accomplish the same things?

Go ahead and tell me what you think the desired outcome of this sign is and try not to make it involve a feeling of gratefulness to men.

If this sub is about men's rights over female rights then maybe I'm in the wrong place. I kind of thought it was about equality in the face of radical feminism.

[–]AloysiusC 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Stop acting like one sex contributed more than the other.

It's factually correct. Why deny it just because it sounds bad.

Men wouldn't have been able to build these cities if women hadn't been behind them building the household to create more men to build more cities.

This is absurd. Firstly Women didn't "build" the household. At most, they managed it. And as for "creating men", that's what I said in the first place. Now it's true that men also reproduce of course but their contribution to that was historically a lot less dangerous though that was countered by the fact that they must invest more to get a mate in the first place.

Also, social pressure prohibited women from taking active part in building the cities, so of course men did all of the work.

Oh please. Women didn't build stuff because they couldn't, not because they were "prohibited". Even with modern machinery making it far less dangerous and physically demanding, and guaranteed right for women to work, there are still insignificantly few women doing any building.

The only thing I see as a desired outcome of this is: "oh! Right! Men built this! So we actually owe them a debt of gratitude for the life we have today!".

Speak for yourself. I don't desire that outcome.

Do you think men could have done this if they didn't have women taking care of the home while they did it?

Yes.

Women raised each generation because the men were out building cities. They are just as vital to the structure of our society as men are.

Being just as vital does not mean equal contribution.

I can tell you that nothing about you would be the same without the female influences of your life.

You are more right about that than you can imagine. And for many more reasons than you can imagine.

do you really think all those men who also had female influences in their lives would have been able to accomplish the same things?

Again, I'm not saying women had no influence. On the contrary, they had considerable influence, arguably more than men even. But that influence is limited to incentivizing men to do things for them. As a very simple example: A woman can influence men to buy her drinks merely with her looks. She's not buying the drinks or acquiring the money to do so. Nothing about the "doing" is hers. She just needs to exist. You wouldn't say in such a situation that she contributed equally to getting the drink merely because it was her smile (or whatever) that instigated the action, would you?

Go ahead and tell me what you think the desired outcome of this sign is and try not to make it involve a feeling of gratefulness to men.

Well best is to ask the creator. My thoughts on such things are that it's a response to the bashing of men we see so much of.

If this sub is about men's rights over female rights then maybe I'm in the wrong place.

Where has anyone advocated for men to have more rights than women? This is just outrage driven conjecture.

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Ever been in an argument with an angry girlfriend or wife? Notice how some of them tend to interpret a lot of what you say in the most uncharitable way possible and then strawman you with that interpretation? Then you constantly have to clarify what you said in response (kind of like how Cathy Newman treated Jordan Peterson).

That's what you're seeing from these hysterical feminists in this thread.

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Wtf are you talking about? You people keep trying to draw this false equivalency between us and feminists and it’s absolutely ridiculous. There isn’t any hatred being spread because of this poster. Highlight men’s contributions and giving them some appreciation for once doesnt equal hating women. You’re the one making that comparison.

The difference is that when feminists highlight women’s contributions they do so by denigrating men’s. When feminists try to lift women up, they do so by knocking men down.

Nothing about this poster even remotely resembles that kind of behavior. Literally all it does is highlight one area where men contribute greatly to society... and it ends with “men are awesome”. That’s it! That’s all it says!

You guys are the ones that keep projecting this negative shit onto it and making all these ridiculous assumptions about the meaning or intention behind it. Nothing about this poster attacks women. Just because it doesn’t talk about women’s contributions doesn’t mean it implies women have none. It doesn’t imply women are worthless or contributed nothing to society.

Obviously women’s accomplishments and contributions towards society are just as important and valuable as men’s, even if they are different. Women themselves are just as vital to civilization as men and this poster doesn’t say otherwise.

But go ahead and keep making false equivalencies... keep acting like this one little poster that shines a positive light on men (for once) somehow paints women in a negative light.

Women are constantly being praised and celebrated by the media and society in general. People are constantly making sure to highlight women’s contributions and accomplishments. They do everything possible to make women feel welcome and appreciated.

I’m pretty sure women will be just fine if there’s one fucking poster on a light post that compliments men... but apparently according to all you people in this thread, I guess women are going to see this poster and go home and cry or something because it didn’t mention them for once.

Heaven forbid a tiny bit of spotlight gets shown on men for once, instead of the constantly barrage of ridicule and contempt that usually gets thrown our way.

It’s pretty sad that we can’t just throw men a bone for once and make them feel valued without treating it like some kind of attack on women.

The fact that my comment has -15 karma even though nothing I said is unreasonable or negative towards women... it goes to show just how fucked up things have gotten in our society when trying to make men feel valued and appreciated is considered “problematic”.

I guess going forward we’ll have to remember that anytime we want to lift up men and remind them they have value... we gotta remember to put in a disclaimer saying that “women are awesome too!”. ... otherwise people will think we are “incels” that just hate women or some shit.

We can’t have men taking any of that spotlight away from women, now can we?

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Lol no I'll still support men's rights

That's the most important thing. Good that we're on the same page.

Perhaps one day you and others won't feel the need to feel superior over the other gender; we are all humans after all.

If you would know anything about me, you would laugh about this sentence. I don't think I am superior than women. I am stronger than most women because I am a man, but still there are women that are much stronger than me. Men and women have different strengths and weaknesses you know and contribute in different ways to society (in general).

Woman can and do participate in rough, physical labor projects.

Of course, but most don't like to do that.

I guess you came here with an preconceived opinion and leave with with the same. Shame, but good luck on your way

Edit: You know whats funny, most people arguing with me in this thread already seem to exactly know who I am and what I think. That is strongly remininding me on the issues Cathy Newman had in her Interview with Jordan Peterson. You should have a look at it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54

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I agree and I see that you’re perspective has good intentions and I think I’m a perfect world it can work but our society is clearly not perfect, I think there’s a lot of people that would look at this as justifying their immature perceptions. Obviously there are a lot of things women have built and contributed too. Maybe in a pure labour sense men build more but we can’t take all the credit. Look at lebron’s situation right now I think there’s a lot to learn from what happened with him and his team. There was another comment I thought put it well, it said according to this poster everything bad can be attributed to men too. The poster statement is not necessary, the motive shouldn’t be ego repair it only inforces that there is a problem to begin with. Believe me I think it’s even worse how much women do it and the media eats it up like crazy. If we were truly equal we wouldn’t need to say things like this. We would just happily live together quietly appreciating the combined efforts that make us better as a whole.

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Olympics commercial: "Thanks MOM"

Hooray! Go women! Yeah!

Random ass sign: "Thanks men!"

Boo! Misogyny! Tear it down!

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Men aren't awesome. Men simply are. Just as women simply are.

As for the men that built what you see there...some of those men were/are awesome...others not so much.

I have a dick, I use it. I have contributed to making both males and females with this dick...I treat both the same. You might get somewhere if you start approaching things this way.

I don't typically come on these men's rights subreddits bc, as a male, they make me sick thinking these are the kinds of ideas being promoted by younger generations. Just the thought that any of my kids bring someone home that thinks along these lines is troubling, to say the least.

The implication of this post is that ONLY men are awesome because ONLY men contributed to what was built, and ONLY men were responsible for supporting their families.

I'm an ELA instructor so I deal a lot with approaches to interpreting texts...and one of the things I often tell my students is that it's not always what is said that matters, most of the time its what is NOT SAID that is important, and in dire need of more careful analysis.

To avoid confusion, why not just replace men with "humans"...wouldn't that be the most accurate statement? We both know the answer to that question, but clearly that's not the intended message.

For the record, I don't believe in men's rights, as I don't really believe in women's rights. I'm good with equality...and from a historical standpoint, I'd say that men (white men in particular) have had it pretty good, wouldn't you say?

[–]Meyright 12 points13 points14 points 8 years ago* (13 children) | Copy Link

Men aren't awesome. Men simply are. Just as women simply are.

So nobody is awesome. Awesome..

As for the men that built what you see there...some of those men were/are awesome...others not so much.

I agree.

I have a dick, I use it. I have contributed to making both males and females with this dick...I treat both the same. You might get somewhere if you start approaching things this way.

What makes you think that I don't treat every person I encounter with the same dignity I demand from them? You're projecting!

The implication of this post is that ONLY men are awesome because ONLY men contributed to what was built, and ONLY men were responsible for supporting their families.

No, its what your mind is projecting (again) onto this poster! It literally doesn't say "ONLY men are awesome".

To avoid confusion, why not just replace men with "humans"...wouldn't that be the most accurate statement?

No it would be a less accurate statement.

Celebrating masculinity for its accomplishment is important in times when feminist trash men just for existing.

Do I interpret your message correctly, you don't want things to get celebrated because most of the time it's more important what is not celebrated and nothing is awesome because things just are?

Edit:

I don't typically come on these men's rights subreddits bc, as a male, they make me sick thinking these are the kinds of ideas being promoted by younger generations.

This sounds pretty condescending and judgemental. You know that the mens rights movement is a reactionary movement of an overstepping feminism?

Just the thought that any of my kids bring someone home that thinks along these lines is troubling, to say the least.

What lines exactly are troubling to you? That men and women should be treated with the same respect? And that we should celebrate men and women for their positive role in society?

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[–]_tuga-10 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes, I'm a die-hard feminist. /s

You guys need to get laid. That's all I'm saying. Or rub one out and go smoke a J. Too much pent up testosterone.

I'm sorry, but I find the men's rights movement to be ridiculous and fueled by little boys that don't have any life experiences with true discrimination. It all comes across as she-hating to me and I was kind of done with that in 2nd grade.

But if you guys feel that strongly about it...keep at it, that's how this all plays out. It's all a numbers game. If things play out how I think they will, you guys don't procreate and your idiocy ends with you, or in the very least you don't get to raise young men to be the douchebags you come across as to most people.

I most certainly don't think any of you have the balls to vocalize any of this in public, which going back to the notion I brought up in the comment string you are replying to, says a lot...that you are giant pussies. The fact that the person who made that sign didn't do so with any identifiers says it all. Richard Spencer may be a tool - and I'm sure there's lots of overlap on this sub with his more racially driven supporters - but at least he has the balls to put his face on his message.

No, you guys just sit here and stew on the fact that nobody wants to suck you dick.

[–]Arctorkovich10 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Arctorkovich4 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well... no actually. Human beings are meant, if anything, to transcend their nature.

We're animals but we wear glasses and type comments on reddit. How many rabbits do you see doing that?

We can do reproduction however we want to. No penis will have to enter a vagina for that at all. Two men can even make a fine couple and raise children. Or two women for that matter.

I don't care how much sex they have as a proof of masculinity, they need to have sex (not even necessarily with women) to get rid of all the animosity toward the opposite sex.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. I don't see how having sex relates to "animosity toward the opposite sex." Probably the opposite is true even. After I cum is when I want the woman to leave my house.

I mean for fuck's sake women haven't even had the right to vote for a solid 100 years.

And men weren't allowed to raise children for thousands of years. Just be glad times have changed and stop harping on the past like it means anything now. You are not a victim because of how things were 4 generations ago.

[–]_tuga-2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Arctorkovich4 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have three sisters and a mom. So that's already four. My sex life isn't really any of your business. But no I don't feel the need to partner up with a woman any more. Maybe 20 years ago when I was a hormone riddled teenager who thought girls were more important than school. Now I'm way more content just focusing on my career and hooking up is more a thing that is fun to do on vacation in a hotel.

But my point was that in male sexuality not having sex is what makes men want to be with women. Why do you think practically all men jerk off before going on dates?

"No penis needs to enter a vagina..." I'm sure that's not a problem...

Why do you think that's a problem? You think women need cock that much that men have some moral responsibility to fuck them? I thought feminism had taken care of these issues. Women are responsible for their own orgasm now, didn't you hear?

[–]_tuga0 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Arctorkovich3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Your 3 sisters and mother must be proud to hear you talk like this.

They don't have your issues so they wouldn't care.

...sex as a vacation activity...you sound like my boy that plays videogames all day and goes to Amsterdam twice a year to get laid. He seems so happy. As I'm sure you are.

I work 50-60 hours a week so don't have much time to play video games. Every once in a while I get a VR session in but not often unfortunately. I'm just too tired when I get home and rather watch some movie and fall asleep. I like to go to quite old European cities in the off-season and just eat very well and visit museums all day. It's great. Then at night I find some quite jazz club or something and meet new and interesting people. If I meet some woman or women and they want to hook up that can be fun. If I'm interested sexually I'm very honest and direct about that so we both know what's going on.

I don't know who your boy is but he'll grow out of it probably so don't worry too much. Just don't make him feel bad about who he is. It's clear that you don't agree with his choices but getting hung up on that will make him feel unsupported and he might grow resentment. Sometimes it's better to not be honest and too open to the ones we love.

And hey if you ever need to talk about these feelings and issues you're having you're welcome to hit me up in PM. We're all human, we're all flawed and sometimes talking to a stranger can help.

[–]_tuga1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have no problem with him going to Amsterdam to get laid...I don't get it, but it's not my life to live. I know it wouldn't make me happy...(and I know it doesn't bring him any contentment either based on his general miserable attitude).

I'm good man, I'm in a really good place in life right now. I got 4 healthy little people to help guide through this mess and I lucked out with my partner. Men's rights is definitely not on my agenda, as I view it as rather ridiculous, but to each their own.

We too like to travel in old European cities - I actually lived in one for a good portion of my life. I just came across this sub haphazardly and decided to peruse a bit, that's all.

If I appear to have issues, then I guess that's your perception, or maybe I haven't quite discovered then yet...but they definitely aren't around how I perceive myself as a male... definitely don't feel oppressed enough to be an active participant in this sub. But I'll peek every so often to see what the boys are fighting for. Lol

[–]Arctorkovich2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It's not about being oppressed really. For me personally most issues discussed here aren't relevant. Maybe the prostate cancer one as it runs in the family. Maybe to give my little nephews more of a chance in school. But I'm not fighting custody battles and I'm not actively discriminated even though I'm in a female dominated corporate environment.

What maybe irks me sometimes is when men are seen as disposable, creepy, abusive, etc, by default. Being stereotyped or judged on things that have nothing to do with you personally isn't fun so it's something I think we as men should try to change in society.

But mainly it's about balance. I listen to the feminists' issues too so I must also listen to the men's rights if I want to be an egalitarian. I don't think either side is more oppressed or whatever we just need to work on equal rights and equal opportunity for all people. Women and children first should be a thing of the past. Men deserve to be listened to and valued as well.

[–]_tuga0 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Maybe it's because I try not get into generalizations, as hard as it can be, but I've never perceived men to be disposable, creepy, abusive, etc... I try to take each person as they are.

Of course it's about balance...hence my comment about voting. I feel that until men, women, or whatever else people identify as are represented, as equally as possible, that men, in particular white men, even more so old rich white men, should probably shut the fuck up about their rights being trampled...bc well, look at our elected officials.

I simply don't know what you talking about when you say men need to be listened to...who is preventing you from speaking? And since you acknowledge the need for balance...who is offsetting that balance? Women? Transgenders? Are they holding all the cards? I sincerely don't get it.

[–]Arctorkovich2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

that men, in particular white men, even more so old rich white men, should probably shut the fuck up

I simply don't know what you talking about when you say men need to be listened to...who is preventing you from speaking?

Let's consider that one answered then shall we?

And no-one is talking about trampled rights. Everyone has the same rights where I live.

And since you acknowledge the need for balance...who is offsetting that balance? Women? Transgenders? Are they holding all the cards? I sincerely don't get it.

It's not about appointing blame. It's about adding to the discourse in society to change societal norms in favor of equality. For example when you have 75% of suicides being male that's something MRA will bring up. Not to blame anyone but to put it in our collective mind as something that needs attention. Maybe funding for clinical research or public campaigns of suicide hotlines targeting men. Maybe just to inspire Hollywood to deal with this theme in film to give young men something to relate to and deal with their issues.

[–]_tuga-1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't see how any of those issues are best handled in a sub for "men's rights"...I think you'd be better served by having these conversations in a sub that doesn't come across as abrasive as I've seen in my very brief time here.

I can relate to the mental health aspects you're bringing up. I'm Portuguese and mental health/suicide is a pretty big problem among Portuguese men. I've had 5 men (early 30s-50s) in my family, close and extended, commit suicide. None showed any signs of distress to most people (I'm sure there were signs to the more immediate family members, I know there were after the fact). To be honest 3 of the 5, according to my estimation, based on what I know of, felt like failures to their families for not being able to provide(loss of jobs, loss of money due to gambling)...If Portugal is one of the old countries you visit, perhaps you might be aware of the gender roles commonly applied in Portuguese society...and how those pressures might lead someone toward feelings of inadequacy...add a mental health component, that is still very much taboo to talk about (generalizing but it's older generation still see men as weak if they aren't of sound mind).

I don't know what you mean about the first part being answered...so men's issues aren't being taken seriously by men?

[–]Arctorkovich2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It's not that abrasive really. You really stood out actually in this thread in terms of abrasiveness with your "you need to get laid" rant. Most people here are good.

And there can be frustration but you gotta understand that for a lot of these men these rights issues that are discussed are real and tangible issues they deal with in their lives. So it should probably be understandable that things get heated when issues like custody get discussed when you have men in this sub that can't see their kids because of court gender bias.

I don't know what you mean about the first part being answered...

What I meant was that you tell a group of people to "shut the fuck up" almost in the same sentence where you ask what's stopping them from speaking.

And how is being rich reason not to listen to someone? You think any amount of money or any skin color will make you feel any better when it comes to custody over children or cancer or suicide? Research suggest that anything over 50,000 a year doesn't make you happier. Probably even more added stress because of the scaling responsibility. Rich people should have equal rights as well my friend.

You were talking about not generalizing but you have no problem holding these racist and dehumanizing opinions that white people especially if they have money shouldn't be listened to.

[–]_tuga1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I didn't convey my thoughts effectively. I think that men need to look at the fact that their representatives are rich white males. Not that rich white males shouldn't speak. (Personally speaking I would eat the rich, but that's for another subreddit). I was really just trying to highlight the fact that it's mostly men in positions of power. And given that's the case, how do you think women might feel about their rights/issues.

Idk man, I tend to side with the have nots. And as a male I can't say I feel anywhere close that.

Now if we add other identifiers (I'm the son of immigrants, who spent time abroad) I feel more and more inclined to fight for those are underrepresented in positions of power.

I have to admit, I hadn't considered custody issues (there are obviously other issues that I am.ignorabt of simply due to life experiences, women aborting babies that the father would happily take care of is also another issue I am sympathetic to, but don't see an easy solution to)...but that's a far cry from the image that I was initially responding to.

[–]Arctorkovich1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't think anyone should be put in a position of power simply to be a representative. I think it should be merit based. Men and women should not be barred from pursuing anything they damn well want to pursue but they should also not be promoted based on anything other than their qualifications.

Merit based is the only way to account for biological differences in a fair way. Equal opportunity not equal outcome.

My sister worked a lot harder than me and she achieved a lot more than me. She has a lot more money than me. That's how it should be. I'm not going to feel sorry for myself or tell her to shut up. I'm going to look at her for inspiration. If I want to have what she has I'll have to work just as hard and sacrifice just as much.

I don't side with anyone based on the group they are in or whatever. I don't give a shit if you're an immigrant or not I'm not going to treat you different because of where you come from. You're not better or worse than a billionaire or whoever simply because of your skin of geographical origin.

[–]_tuga1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah...I'm not talking that kind of rich, if you consider your sister rich. Unless she's donating millions upon billions of dollars, that she didn't earn herself, to influence outcomes of elections, I admire your sister too... It's those suffering from affluenza that do look down on the rest of us that I have a massive problem with.

I dont believe in quotas or affirmative action programs..but I believe in equal access and like you said equal opportunity...our society is not currently providing that for large swaths of our population.

I'll lurk on here a little more to see what it's really all about, but that first image just gave me the indication that it's not an inclusive space for real discussion...and I admit that maybe I did come across in an abrasive way...but it was purely in jest and done to get a rise. An attempt at trolling.

Have a good night, I do appreciate the conversation.

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I don't get why "why don't you get you dick sucked" is sexist...it's the equivalent of saying "if you have an itch that is causing you to be a fucking asshole toward an entire subset of people based on their gender, then scratch it".

I don't go around putting up pieces of paper with misogynistic signs and then post them on social media platforms for a rise out or frustrated men... I attribute that to the fact that I have a sex life that is healthy for me...i.e. I get my dick sucked literally and figuratively speaking.

Try it out. Maybe chilling on r/mensrights on a Saturday morning wouldn't be your first priority...especially on a thread from yesterday...you had to dig, ---> go get your dick sucked...

...as for procreation as you doubted...I got 4 kiddos, happy healthy human beings that are being raised to consider that maybe people in general are awesome and that all people contribute to society. Blasphemous, I know.

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The fact that people think a sign which doesn’t mention women at all, and only points out the positive aspects of traditional American men working in the construction industry, is somehow comparing men against women and therefore deserves no love, INSIDE A SUBREDDIT DEVOTED TO MEN’S RIGHTS, is fucking disgusting to me.

The comment I’m replying to is the top comment.

What kind of fucking topsy turvy upside down world ridiculousness is this? Men are awesome fucking creatures, and not everything we do, say, think, feel, and believe has to be some secret shade throwing plot that revolves around the vagina, or the belief that the vagina is the center of the known universe.

Self-esteem is not a zero sum game. I don’t require women to feel bad in order to feel good about myself. So if your first instinct is to warp something wholesome like this, maybe you should get a job at a movie theater. Cause you, friend, are projecting.

[–]Dembara 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DarthCerebroX 24 points25 points26 points 8 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, heaven forbid someone try to call attention to all the contributions men have made for civilization. /s

This poster isn’t comparing anything. It doesn’t even mention women at all. Literally all it’s doing is reminding people that men have sacrificed a lot and put a lot of hard work towards building, repairing and maintaining our society. And then it ends with “Men are awesome”.

The feminist imperative has really impacted society more than people realize... It’s at the point now where anytime something shines a positive light on men, people automatically assume it’s shining a negative light on women. That’s ridiculous!

What’s so bad about trying to remind society that men are important and contribute a lot? What’s so bad about calling attention to men’s accomplishments? Does literally every fucking thing have to be about women and praising women? Can we not throw men a bone every now and then without putting in a disclaimer that “women are awesome too!”.

Jesus Christ.... It also irritates me when people try to dictate and control everything we do here. Apparently we’re only allowed to talk about rights men are lacking or discrimination men face? ... Tell me, do you go up to feminists and tell them they are only allowed to focus on women’s rights? Do you tell them they can no longer try to lift women up, highlight women’s contributions to society, try to support and encourage women and make them feel valued?

If you don’t do that... then why are you doing that to us? Are we not allowed to try and support men and remind them that men are valued and appreciated? Constantly in the media, men are getting shit on all the fucking time. There is this non stop contempt and ridicule towards the male gender and you bet your ass it has an effect on men. Men are being made to feel guilty just for being born male. We are made to feel like villains and bad guys by virtue of our gender. This is why more and more men are checking out of society... Because men no longer feel wanted or welcome. We wouldn’t have to put up posters like this if men weren’t constantly being attacked by the media, politicians and everyone else who virtue signals to women and shits on men in order to look good and “progressive”.

So yeah... this poster is reminding society that men ARE important and it’s reminding men that they have something to feel proud of. Just because something praises men doesn’t automatically mean it’s being negative towards women.

You guys are the one making that comparison and putting that kind of meaning behind it...

[–]orcscorper -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Dembara-6 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DarthCerebroX17 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

it makes people just get on the defensive.

And what does that say about our society? ... That whenever something paints men in a positive light or tries to make men feel valued and appreciated, it somehow makes people defensive and is treated like an attack on women. How fucked up is our society that we can’t call attention to men’s positive contributions without people throwing a fucking hissy fit because we didn’t say anything nice about women?

We can’t have men stealing a little bit of spotlight away from women, now can we? .. Even when that spotlight is just a piece of paper glued to a freaking telephone pole. lol .. Jesus Christ, people in here are acting like there’s some kind of shortage of praise and appreciation being given to women.... like women aren’t constantly being celebrated and praised in the media already.

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???

This is just saying men built this, and that those who did so were supporting families. There is no comparison. I'm sure 1,000 other comments say the same lol

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In the context of a personal conversation it might not be necessary. But in the context of the public sphere, it is absolutely necessary because the goal is different. Decisions based on a full set of facts are always better in the sense that they have a higher chance of attaining their goals. If this were not the case, the scientific method would be incapable of achieving anything. Facts are not inherently good or evil. It's what people do with them that matters.

IMO "leaving out facts" in the political sphere serves noone in the long run. In fact it can be downright insulting. You can tell your 4-year old that a magical stork delivers babies, but this does not prepare them to be successful adults.

There is a real physical world, and insisting in the public sphere that it's not worth mentioning just because you value niceness and harmony above all else is toxic femininity. Only a balance of "masculine" and "feminine" traits leads to the success of human civilization, IMO.

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Heaven forbid we throw men a bone and actually try to give them a compliment for once.... I forgot we gotta put in a disclaimer that “women are awesome too” otherwise people will assume that by shining a positive light on men, it automatically means we are trying to shine a negative light on women...

Jesus Christ, you guys are all over this thread..

Is it really that bad to try and remind people of men’s contributions to society and make them feel valued and appreciated? Men are constantly being shit on in the media... we are portrayed as villains and oppressors. We are made to feel unwanted and unwelcome... We are told that we only cause harm to this world and people act as if men don’t do any good for society.

So somebody decides to put up some posters pointing out all the good men accomplish for civilization and try to make men feel valued and appreciated... and how do you guys respond? By throwing a damn hissy fit because we didn’t praise women in the process.

“Bu... but... there’s a few women in construction too! This is very mean and rude towards women!

Give me a break... can men be allowed to have one good thing without calling the spotlight back to women?

The feminist imperative really has succeeded.... Anything that shines a positive light on men is seen as “problematic” and an attack on women.

[–]The_Best_01 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Dakewlguy 27 points28 points29 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Industry stats are misleading, it's better to look at the breakdown of occupations held by women in the construction industry.

https://www.nawic.org/nawic/statistics.asp

Occupation Sector	Number of Women	Percentage
Sales & Office	423,000	45%
Professional & Management	293,000	31%
Natural Resources, Construction & Maintenance	196,000	21%
Service Occupations	14,000	1.5%
Production, Transportation & Material Moving	13,000	1.4%

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this. i hate this bullshit 'thank the men and women firefighters' nonsense. 99% of firefighters who risk their lives are men. They deserve the credit.

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First, the world will be a much quieter place without the endless chatter. That will be nice.

Then there will be a dramatic increase in buggery. Not sure how I feel about that.

The remaining women will become as special as they already think they are. Can you imagine the entitlement when every woman has ten times as many thirsty guys trying to impress her? I can't; it's beyond imagining.

That fifteen hours per week of unpaid domestic work you mentioned below probably won't get done. On the upside, nobody will give a shit.

The birthrate will plummet, which means Social Security will disappear. But women pay less into, and get more out of, Social Security. Without all those old ladies getting benefits, it should stay solvent until I die. No problem there.

Men don't see doctors until women make them, so the lack of nurses won't be an issue, and we don't need so many teachers and babysitters when we don't have so many children. That's a wash.

TV and radio will be drastically improved. To turn on a television on a weekday afternoon and see something that isn't related to celebrity bullshit, home decorating or cakes, would be awesome. Never hearing fucking Coldplay on the radio again would be even better.

The lights will stay on, the internet will still work, there will still be people who can fix my car, refine the gasoline to keep it running, and maintain the roads. Food and beer will still be produced and transported to stores near me. I would do just fine.

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You're right, men are the majority of murderers. But did you know...

While men kill much more often, with a percentage ranging from somewhere around 80% up to 90%, it seems noteworthy to me that both men and women kill men more often (study form Sweden) than women.

Men account for around 60-90% of murder victims (depending on the country). Society only cares about the victims when they are women and only about the perpetrators when they're male. A murder with a female victim is even around 60% more likely to result in a death sentence (32% to 47%), (related graph). Not only are female victims treated as more valuable, even female perpetrators are treated more lenient. Women guilty of capital murder are far less likely than men to be sentenced to death.

It's very easy to find numbers about the victims of male murderers and how women suffer, but its very difficult to find out much about female murderers and the gender of their victims. I wasn't able find any other studies or statistics besides the study from Sweden.

(https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6j027r/men_are_much_more_likely_to_kill_other_men_women/)

So for your argument, I wouldn't say 10-20% of murderers being women could be called an exception.

[–]WikiTextBot2 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Homicide statistics by gender

According to the data given by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, worldwide, 78.7% of homicide victims are male, and in 193 of the 202 listed countries or regions, males were more likely to be killed than females. In two, the ratio was 50:50 (Switzerland and British Virgin Islands), and in the remaining 7; Tonga, Iceland, Japan, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Latvia and Hong Kong, females were slightly more likely to be victims of homicides compared to males. A 2013 global study on homicide by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime found that males accounted for about 96 percent of all homicide perpetrators worldwide and 79% of the victims (see the chart below). The homicide rate is per year per 100,000 inhabitants.

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well as a point I think a large amount comes down to our subconscious survival as a species. what I mean by this is that women can give birth to between 1-7 children while one man could technically impregnate thousands of women. men biologically are just not as important as woman are. women determine the continuity of our species.

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That's the worst argument in favor of "female biological superiority." Ok good job, 1 man has now impregnated 100 women. Now what? 200 mouths to feed and only 1 person capable of feeding them? What about shelter? Wild animals? Diseases? Ok, lets say he impregnates 25%, he still has to do most of the work. The women might not make themselves useful, and if they did they don't have the same instincts. Here's an example of that: https://smboneva.wordpress.com/2016/11/07/iris-marion-young-throwing-like-a-girl-a-phenomenology-of-feminine-body-comportment-motility-and-spatiality/

The problem with that argument is it only focuses on reproduction, but reproduction is useless unless you can take care of the child, and have them survive into adulthood. And then you gotta teach the children not to grow up to be wild animals, or they'll be useless and the reproduction and survival of the baby would've been in vain.

The best ratios for male / female populations will always be close to 50/50. Men aren't superior, women aren't superior, we're a team. And this is only the biological reproductive aspect, it doesn't even take into account the countless other aspects of life.

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[–]Tikylme0 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I disagree. I know this double-standard is infuriating, and that it's only one of many that us blokes feel the sharp end of, and the feeling that no-one cares makes us want to just lash out in anyway we can. But ask yourself: Do you really want this? Is that really what matters? Would your proposed campaign being successful make things better?

Maybe you feel it would, but I think "No! Not at all! It would make thing worse!"

I hate the widespread acceptance of the theory that the portrayal of a fictional character can ever be considered offensive. I hate it much more than I hate the fact that in the current climate it's men who are the only demographic not considered with the reverence of a national heritage site, and so can still be freely shit upon or littered without the world having a meltdown about it.

In an ideal world, suggesting the depiction of any character in any ad, book, movie or whatever as a basis of alleging that society is sexist or racist would be laughed at heartily by all, as a fundamentally stupid thing to say.

But it's not likely. That's not where we're at now. and we're further away than we've ever been.

So the best realistic case: We accept we can't change that feminists have the win on ensuring female characters will be strong independent personality-neutered bores for the forseeable future, but say in response hey, what the hell? Sure, art will suffer for lacking as many interesting female characters, but why do we have to let them make us as uptight and joyless as them by insisting men be given the same kid-gloves? That doesn't feel like any kind of victory to me, to exercise our "right" to demand men be portrayed with consideration respect and assorted bullshit etc. , just because we want to flex our newly grown muscles to be as much assholes as feminists have been for forty years.

It's a miserable life, this bean-counting gender ratios and standards of portrayals in fiction. I don't care if nearly every man I ever see in media is a terrible, pathetic person forevermore, it can't really hurt me. What matters is how free the person who made him up felt when they were creating him.

[–]R1kjames-5 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Taaargus 94 points95 points96 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

How is this supposed to be a good way of pushing back against whatever discrimination you say you’re seeing? If people are diminishing “your” accomplishments by grouping us as a gender, why is it good to feed into that with this type of BS? Why not just go the route of “we’re all in a society that works together”? How is bragging about something you didn’t even participate in supposed to help anyone? Why are we supposed to buy that building skyscrapers is more important than the various accomplishments of women? How does this even come close to addressing the obvious fact that for hundreds of years women were actively excluded from taking part in any accomplishments?

This only feeds in to the vitriol of the people you claim to be fighting by distinguishing between men and women and acting as though individual achievements/failings have anything to do with a large enough group.

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Because it’s purposely leaving out any participation women may have had in the building of these cities. Who’s to say some of those buildings weren’t paid for by companies with female leadership? Or female accountants? Or just the wives that took care of everything else in the lives of those workers? It’s also claiming credit for people (i.e. us, sitting on reddit) for things other men did. It’s also just generally part of a generally overly macho BS simplification of things that amounts to “building things is good and important. Everything else is lesser.”

I’m a male accountant. Why should I get any credit for what some other male contractor did 50 years ago? Just as it’s ridiculous when women claim credit for those who marched for suffrage, or whatever, it’s ridiculous for anyone but the people who actually built those skyscrapers to take credit for it.

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[+]Sergije31 points 8 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't really say pursue their own desires since being a stay at home mom is looked down upon now.

[–]DarthCerebroX 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

By whom? Not by us.... In fact, the main group of people I see putting down SAHM’s are actually feminists. You know the types, the ones that act like being a SAHM is inherently “oppressive”. Anybody that decides to follow more traditional gender roles is criticized, accused of being sexist and told that we aren’t “living in the 50’s anymore”. Women who decide to be SAHM are told they have “internalized misogyny and they are viewed as “less than” because they aren’t career professional women.

The only time you might see some contempt towards SAHMs from MRA’s or this sub is when we are discussing divorce. That’s because if you are a man getting divorced from a woman who is a SAHM, you’re pretty much guaranteed to get fucked the hardest in divorce. If she’s a SAHM she automatically gets alimony/spousal support and is locked into your future income for X amount of years. She also gets a portion of your retirement and 401k, etc etc. .. So that’s the main reason we discourage men from getting married to or getting into relationships with single SAHM’s because it puts them in a vulnerable position to be screwed over if the relationship ends.

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Still bitter about /r/incels closing?

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Sure, one woman or two helped along the way, but it's like men don't get credit for being super smart and hard working.

Women weren't even allowed to get an education for most of history, let alone work and innovate and contribute to society. Men are not better simply because they've had far more opportunities to be better.

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[–]DarthCerebroX 42 points43 points44 points 8 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Tell me, how does this poster “denigrate the accomplishments” of women? It doesn’t even mention women!

Jesus fucking Christ, you people are all over this thread. Just because something shines a positive light on men or highlights the contributions men make, that doesn’t automatically make it an attack on women!

This poster doesn’t mention women at all... all these strawman arguments you’re making is just shit you’re projecting on us. Heaven forbid we actually try to remind people of how important men are to society and actually make men feel valued and appreciated!

Men are constantly being shit on by feminists, politicians, the media, etc etc... We are portrayed as villains and oppressors just by virtue of our gender. We are made to feel guilty for all the sins of our ancestors and we are made to feel unwanted and unwelcome. Because of this, many men are starting to check out of society because they’re tired of being shit on and treated like a burden to society.

So some people decide to put up a poster reminding people of men’s contributions and reminding men that they are valued... and how do you guys respond? .. By throwing a fucking hissy fit because we didnt mention anything about women’s accomplishments or contributions. God damn!... Are we seriously not allowed to compliment men or shine a positive light on men for once without putting in a disclaimer that “women are good too! Women do good things too!”

Give me a fucking break... You people are the only ones here trying to draw comparisons to women and their accomplishments. Of course women contribute to society and are just as valuable as men are. Nothing about this poster says otherwise. You guys keep projecting all this shit onto us acting like we believe women are useless or something. Nobody here is saying that except you guys and your ridiculous strawmans.

Feminism and the media is constantly shining light on women and their accomplishments, their contributions... Women are constantly reminded how important and valuable they are. They are made to feel welcome and appreciated..

You never see that kind of thing towards men anymore... hence this poster trying to do that. And you know what, we wouldn’t have to hang fucking posters like this if men weren’t constantly being attacked and ridiculed all the time.

People like you are proof that the feminist imperative has succeeded.... Anything that shines a positive light on men is automatically seen as an attack on women. Anytime someone compliments men without complimenting women is seen as “sexist”.

Do you want to know the difference between us and this poster compared to feminists? When they highlight women’s contributions, they actually do denigrate men’s. When they shine a light on women, they do so by knocking men down and criticizing our gender. They say “men are useless, men only make things worse, the future would be so much better without men, etc etc etc”.... Nothing about this poster is comparable to that kind of behavior.

But go ahead and keep making false equivalencies and strawman arguments to paint this narrative that were all a bunch of women haters and shit.

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[–]DarthCerebroX14 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Seriously? ... I read that strawman bullshit you pulled out of your ass.

The whole entire point of your comment was to imply we are being hypocrites. You pasted a bunch of complaints and criticisms we have about feminism in order to draw some kind of comparisons to this post, acting as if we are doing the same exact thing even though we’re not.

Are you going to be disingenuous and pretend that wasn’t your intention? You’re acting like some kind of smug, condescending prick but all you’re really doing is making a false equivalency.

When we say feminism denigrates men’s accomplishments, we have a valid argument because that’s exactly what they do. They constantly dismiss all the good that men contribute to this world and act as if we only bring harm and suffering to others.

Honoring women by denigrating and ridiculing men isn’t comparable to this post, which calls attention to men’s contributions without mentioning women at all. You’re trying to paint this narrative where by failing to mention women’s contributions, that’s somehow just as bad as when feminists dismiss men’s contributions.

We at this sub.. and this post in particular, don’t try to denigrate women’s contributions. Just because they weren’t acknowledged on this poster doesn’t mean we think women are useless that have contributed nothing towards society.

As I said before, women are just as important as men. Women’s contributions and accomplishments are just as important as men’s.

Just because this poster highlighted one area where men contribute to society without putting in a fucking disclaimer saying “women contribute too though and women are awesome too!”... that doesn’t mean we are dismissing or denying women’s contributions (which is what feminists do to us)...

So yeah... do I need to spell this shit out any further for you? ... go ahead and keep acting like a condescending prick but don’t pretend like that wasn’t your intention to compare us to feminists or imply we are being hypocrites.

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[–]DarthCerebroX11 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, you have our complaints wrong... We don’t criticize feminists for ignoring men’s contribution, we criticize the fact that they constantly dismiss and deny all the good contributions men have made. They seriously act as if men have accomplished nothing positive and that we have only caused pain and destruction to this planet.

You probably think I’m being hyperbolic but all you have to do is read feminist articles in mainstream publications. They don’t try to hide it at all. Many of these people will say how much better the world would be without men... they act as if men are nothing more than oppressors that hold back women.

THAT is what we criticize... If feminists just highlighted women’s contributions or made women feel valued without shitting all over men then we wouldn’t have a problem with it. That’s why we always say there are ways to empower women without knocking down men.

This poster isn’t comparable to that... nothing about this poster is negative towards women. Not once does it say that women contribute nothing or that women are useless.

The only “sin” this poster made apparently is forgetting to praise women as well... because I guess nowadays we can’t appreciate men without it being seen as an attack on women.

I guess going forward we’ll have to remember that if we ever want to highlight men’s contributions or make men feel valued and appreciated... I guess we gotta remember to put in a disclaimer saying “women are awesome too!”... otherwise people will accuse us of misogyny or some shit.

We can’t have men stealing even just a tiny bit of spotlight away from women, now can we?... Even when that spotlight is nothing more than a fucking poster on a god damn telephone pole lol.

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weird, the only person I see calling people cunts (or even mentioning them to begin with) is you

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I don’t think it’s necessarily inaccurate, it just feels insecure to have to point that out. The accomplishments speak for themselves, and the pride should be derived from creating. As men, we should be able to build and improve upon society for the betterment of our families AND for society as a whole, without having to give ourselves a little gold star and lord it over the female gender in this separatist manner. You ever come across one of those “Women in Business” luncheons? A group of gals all patting themselves on the back because they’re super-brave Women in Business and they have this neato little club with other Women in Business and it’s great because they’re standing strong against all the men in business? It’s just such a weak look to have them market themselves as unique and empowered because they are Women, but at the same time they have a job. Their very own pep rally for themselves is exactly why the equality they claim to want will never happen. Does that make sense? Like, “Men Are Amazing” or whatever it was really shouldn’t have to be a fucking hash tag or a catchphrase, it should be the norm. When we start publishing literature to remind people how awesome we are for doing our jobs, we immediately lose some of that awesomeness.

What do you do when you score a touchdown? Act like you’ve been there before.

[–]EricAllonde4 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

it just feels insecure to have to point that out.

Have you seen the media at all lately? It's constant, ubiquitous demonisation and smearing of men. We badly need some good PR for men and there's no one else to do it except for us. The feminists certainly aren't, in fact they'll oppose any such attempt bitterly, as this thread proves. That's why it's disappointing to see you helping them.

When we start publishing literature to remind people how awesome we are for doing our jobs, we immediately lose some of that awesomeness.

It's basically marketing and yes, success stories are an important element of marketing. If we ever want to change the public perception of men to undo decades of smearing by feminists, this is exactly what we need to do.

What do you do when you score a touchdown? Act like you’ve been there before.

This isn't a good analogy. You're comparing a touchdown in the present tense, with the audience watching as it happens, vs building construction, which is very much NOT a spectator sport, well after the fact.

What does the football player (or his agent) do when they're trying to get him a pay rise or new contract? They quote the stats: X touchdowns in Y games, etc etc. They don't rely on their target market remembering what a good player the guy is and paying him accordingly. They know that's a route to failure. They have to remind their market that he's a good player, of what he's accomplished and what he's capable of achieving. So they have all the stats to show what a good player he is and they shove them under the noses of their target market where they can't be ignored.

We should do the same.

[–]jnofx1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So, flyers then? A little twitter hashtag campaign? You know who’s not on twitter? The construction workers that built all that shit in the picture. So then who are we supposed to be marketing to? We’re either trying to pitch our gender to feminists who will demonize us regardless, or we’re trying to pitch it to everybody else, who are rational human beings who realize that we aren’t all Harvey Weinstein. That crowd doesn’t need an ad campaign to remind them that their fathers and their brothers are good men. A flyer and a social media campaign is just grey noise. It almost sounds like the ‘Got Milk?’ ad campaign. You either buy milk or you fucking don’t. The Milk commercial never raised your awareness of milk to the point where Big Dairy got a new customer. You took my football analogy off the field entirely, incorporating sports agents and contract negotiations and marketability and all sorts of shit. Totally cool, I appreciate the perspective. But I just want to focus on the game at hand. Do the job, do it well, and the off-the-field stuff will take care of itself because there is always demand for a winner. You seem like a fan, so think Barry Sanders. 75 yard TD run, and just hand the ball to the ref and get ready for when the Offense is back on the field. Humble, workmanlike, but absolutely spectacular. A great role model for any boy, IMO. That’s how he became the greatest of all time. Now, in your example, we’re really concerned with brand and exposure and using our agent to strong arm deals and approaching the team we want to play for as an adversary. That’s how we get to Terrell Owens. Also spectacular, nobody can ever take his achievements away. Probably top 5 all-time, right? Well, why isn’t he in the Hall of Fame then? Because he’s a self-promoting, team destroying asshole who lost the respect of his peers. His greatness is tainted because as good as he was, he was never as good or as important as HE TOLD US HE WAS. Now he’s waiting around to be voted in, and it makes him miserable.

Ok, I definitely let that football thing get stupid, thank you for bearing with me. Let me bring it back to the marketing campaign that you’re advocating for. What’s the best form of advertisement? Internet marketing? No, that shit is annoying and ad blocker is a necessity these days. How bout TV? Nope, the youth don’t watch it as much, and the public should have a healthy distrust of tv advertising at this point. So what are we left with as the best type of advertising possible for a company? Word. Of. Mouth. If you’re happy with the service you received from a company, you’re going to tell your friend. Your friend trusts you more than TV commercials or internet pop-ups, obviously, so he’s going to use that company too. So what does this mean to me? It means that if we want our brand to be looked upon positively, we need to do a good job. Be a good man, be a positive influence as far as that influence will reach, and understanding that our product quality is far more important than the volume of our ad campaign. You ever see a Ferrari commercial? Exactly. Quality speaks for itself. If you’re worried about being smeared by angry feminists or something, you can rest assured knowing that you’re untouchable and inexpendable if you’ve chosen to treat people well and become a legitimately productive man. I appreciate the perspective you gave me, I just think we might just go about our business in fundamentally different ways. I see this little flier, and I see petty men who need to belittle others to make themselves feel important (and totally disregarding the mathematical certainty that somewhere on that crew is a capable lady. maybe a machine operator, maybe a CAD designer, maybe a surveyor. Maybe she’s in accounting and cuts the checks for everybody, but a woman had a part in that)

This sub is a lot more helpful when we’re discussing unfair divorce statistics, and fathers rights being violated. If we just start saying “Boys built this, girls cant” then we’re basically the red pill and our mothers should be ashamed.

Good luck out there man

[–]EricAllonde3 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That crowd doesn’t need an ad campaign to remind them that their fathers and their brothers are good men.

I disagree. A lot of people will mindlessly echo feminist mantras like "Men are trash" while mentally making an exception for a handful of men close to them: husband, father, son, etc. It is worth countering that feminist narrative.

This sub is a lot more helpful when we’re discussing unfair divorce statistics, and fathers rights being violated.

It's not either-or. If you want to talk more about that stuff, make some posts. Don't try to tone-police everyone else.

If we just start saying “Boys built this,

The term used was "men".

girls cant”

Nobody said that. Calm down, you're projecting.

The rest of your wall of text was just...wrong. I spend about half of each week doing marketing, as I have for about two decades now. You're so wrong I don't know where to start, and I really can't be bothered.

So you do you. Since you have firm beliefs about how to tackle the problem, go put them into practice. When you're successful, others will notice and follow your lead.

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So, it's dangerous to deal with absolutes like 'everything', because it puts people on the defensive. While it is not an attack, it could be perceived as an attack, and that will pre dispose people from listening to what the other person has to say.

It also depends on how you define 'build', both how it was intended by the original creator, and by the potential reader. If you're referring to the more literal 'build', in the sense of construction, I think that's not too controversial to say. (As far as I know) women are a miniscule minority of construction jobs, and so it's safe to say that every building in that shot had more men work on 'building' them than women.

However, if you interpret this to mean the more rhetorical use of 'build', to expand to the entire work force, then I think that's far less of a reasonable assertion to make, considering how much more even the balance is of working men and women in the general workforce.

I think that the poster originally intended the literal use, but that many readers will assume the second definition.

There's also an angle to consider of how men building all of these structures isn't necessarily a good thing. Construction work has some of the highest employee mortality rates of any occupation, and it's a central Men's Rights issue to combat the societal enforcement of 'Men as a Source of Income', forcing men to take hazardous jobs and overworking them to provide income for the family because 'that's all they're good for'.

However, I think taking pride in accomplishment is not a bad thing, and I greatly admire the poster's intentions, even if I think it will be perceived in a negative light.

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Comments

#allgendersmatter

Triggered

EveryoneIsAwesome

allgendersmatter

Title	#MenAreAwesome
Author	TerriChris
Upvotes	2811
Comments	761
Date	February 9, 2018 2:26 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7wdr3t/menareawesome/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/menareawesome.906259 https://theredarchive.com/post/906259