How is misandry different from other forms of biogtry in a way that make it acceptable?

begayallday · 2023-10-07T03:34:19+00:00

The poison strawberry/candy/pancake/whatever analogy has also been used to promote bigotry against people of certain races/ethnic backgrounds. So yeah, I think that constitutes misandry. It’s not functionally any different.

I’m gonna say it though. Choosing not to have intimate relationships with men due to the personal risk involved is not misandry. Choosing not to have intimate relationships with women for the same reasons isn’t misogyny either. The right of the individual to decide if and with whom to have an intimate relationship is sacrosanct as it involved your own bodily autonomy. Treating all men or women poorly because of your beliefs about them is wrong though.

Hard_Corsair · 2023-10-07T02:48:03+00:00

I DO NOT support the viewpoint, but the opposing argument is that personal bigotry doesn't really matter unless it reinforces systemic bigotry. This is what people are trying to illustrate when they say superficially wrong things like "you can't be racist against white people."

There is some logic here. If politicians don't make policy to conform to your opinion, then what does it matter?

Rare-Emu-119 · 2023-10-07T14:53:27+00:00

There is something in the human mind that makes it hard for people to empathize with men.

Both women and men have a naturally inclination to protect and care for women.

Philip8000 · 2023-10-07T01:58:21+00:00

Men are seen as deserving targets, where "male culture" or "entitlement" is responsible for how the worst examples behave. And when you've got legitimate trauma, it's even easier to be angry at men. Spend a few minutes in the Twoxchromosomes thread.

Problem is, evil men can do far more evil than good men can do good. If I'm lucky, I could perhaps impact the lives of a few women for the better. The likes of Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein can impact the lives of hundreds for the worse. Not only their direct victims, but the fear they inspire. For a less extreme example, men who only care about sleeping with women, without giving a damn about them.

Another is that men are expected to just deal with their issues, without expecting societal help to do it. If they can't, they're worthless losers. Blame it on patriarchy if you like, but women play a big role in enforcing gender norms, even feminists. I've been told to man up more often from women than I have from men.

Comfortable-Dare-307 · 2023-10-07T15:18:49+00:00

Misandry is not just socially acceptable, but it's often encouraged. No one cares about the problems men have. It is somehow considered misogynistic to point out a problem only men face. (Or mostly only men). Like homelessness, war casualties, war injuries, financial burdens, etc. One great example of misandry is prostate cancer. Prostate cancer kills three times more men than breast cancer kills women. But there's no big deal made of it, unlike "Race For The Cure" for women. Women think men have advantages through every area of life, so anything troublesome we go through is just "catching up with women," so to speak. When you've been catered to all your life like women, you fail to see all the advantages you have.

JonMyMon · 2023-10-07T19:21:54+00:00

The cognitive dissonance in this thread is scary

pastaboogie · 2023-10-07T23:17:46+00:00

A lot of women ITT were strangely obsessed with tying misandry back to sex even if wasn't the core of what was being discussed. Quite funny to read.

SuccessfulLibrary996 · 2023-10-07T06:05:09+00:00

When men as a group are criticised or attacked, everyone really knows this means ordinary men. Extraordinary men are by definition beyond the reach of MeToo or any other shaming or campaigns of any kind, if they weren't, they wouldn't be extraordinary.

Subconsciously, society approves of any and all tests that make life more difficult for (ordinary) men and push more men down, because they more clearly than ever separate the weak from the powerful, the chaff from the wheat. Women approve, because they appreciate it being made clearer who the top men in charge are vs. who the icky incel MGTOW terrorists or whatever are who they obviously don't want to end up with. Individual men don't really approve, but complaining about it too much shows your hand and reveals that you are one of the weak men who by definition aren't in charge, if you were you wouldn't have anything to complain about.

So most men feel like they have to pretend to be Gigachad who obviously doesn't worry about being seen as a creep or being accused of sexual impropriety decades later from now or any of that, even if objectively 90%+ of men actually do and even celebrities, rich guys, and aristocrats now can get hit with this stuff (the fact that even they can be brought down as well doesn't lead women and society to the conclusion that hey, even guys who aren't losers can be unfairly maligned or that this doesn't have anything to do with your status or attractiveness, then, on the contrary it actually leads to the conclusion that an even smaller minority of men than we used to think are not under the thumb and worthy of respect).

This might sound absurd, but in a way it does actually make logical sense.

Lolocraft1 · 2023-10-07T02:07:27+00:00

You can apply that to every group of people

Replace men in the analogy with women, white, b’ack, muslim, christian, jew, rich, poor, homeless, asian, handiccapped, mentally ill, healthy, orange juice lover. What’s the difference? None. So by that logic, we should all avoid each other altogether

The analogy doesn’t work because it imply it’s the strawberries of a single bowl, not all strawberries of the world. She say it herself, she should avoid this particular strawberry bowl. She can’t take a single bowl as an example and then say "Strawberries are toxic"

Secondly, the only reason she think all strawberries of that bowl are bad is because one is infected with arsenic and by mixing them up, it infected all other strawberries. The reason to avoid the strawberries is because strawberries can’t think, and therefore can’t change opinion, on the contrary of men who can be exposed to toxic view, but not giving a damn about it

Thirdly, the only reason the strawberries are full of arsenic is because it’s the WOMAN who not only put the arsenic here in the first place, she is also the one who mixed them all up together. That imply women are the cause of male toxicity and it’s spreading… Yikes

I prefer the analogy of a lake. If you drop a liter of blood in the lake, and then take a sip immediately right where you dropped the blood, of course it’s gonna taste blood a lot. If you let it dissipate, you wouldn’t feel it because it’s one liter inside a lake of millions of good liters of water. And even if you dropped an entire pool of blood in the lake, you’ll just have to use a filter, and boom you get clean water again. You don’t even have to do it yourself, the lake is connected to a river bringing a constant flow of freshwater. In other word, not only you can’t say the whole lake is full of blood, it show evil eventually go away, replaced by good

MarBitt · 2023-10-07T01:49:29+00:00

How big does a bowl of strawberries have to be to make it worth eating, even if one of them is poisoned? It probably doesn't exist that big.

Then, of course, that woman should also avoid other women. Sure, the chances of her being raped, assaulted, or killed by another woman are smaller, but that means only bigger bowl in that comparison.

If you don't compare it to men, but to driving a car, then every time you drive a car, there is also a chance that you will have an accident (poisoned strawberry). But is the solution to stop driving?

If you take it to the extreme, the only way to avoid a poisoned strawberry in a bowl for sure is to not live at all. Which is basically the same as not waiting for it to be in the bowl and eating the poison straight away.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-10-07T01:02:33+00:00

Fathers greet prom dates at the door with shotgun in hand, why not ask the men who spread the message that men are dangerous?

That’s the message every single one of women’s fathers, grandfathers, brothers, and uncles gave women.

“Be careful around him, I know how men are”.

“Don’t drink anything, I know how men are”.

“Don’t let him pressure you, I know how men are.”

“Don’t wear that, I know how men are”

“Don’t post that, I know how men think”

“Don’t do this, that, or the other thing because I know how men that age behave”

Why ask women? Ask the messengers.

xTakki27 · 2023-10-07T10:47:12+00:00

Well, womwn don't want to take responsibility for their actions and feminism has provided them with too many rights and too little responsibility to Balance it all out...

But that's the average problem in most problems in gender relations

wardenferry419 · 2023-10-07T11:08:08+00:00

Just a thought. All the strawberries were good. Someone made one of them bad and affected others in the process. In this case, it was a woman. So, don't be an asshole and ruin strawberries.

basedmama21 · 2023-10-07T17:35:45+00:00

I think more women have been brainwashed that it is “funny” and “okay”. Every age group from gen z to boomer. Especially boomer women. I watch them emasculate and proverbially sh!t on their husbands DAILY and they all essentially point and laugh at them and claim men are useless. And it’s okay. But the second a man says something just about how trifling women are, the hyenas come out.

I will die on the hill that misandry is worse, more annoying, and even more dangerous than misogyny is.

trettles · 2023-10-07T01:02:15+00:00

Other forms of bigotry (such as misogyny) involve rape, murder, coercive control, abuse, & systemic oppression.

"Misandry" usually involves just avoiding men.

No_Possibility4232 · 2023-10-07T06:38:40+00:00

Because institutions like the media, Hollywood, academia, and most social media- is far into feminism and woke progressivism. These models adopt the cultural marxist and intersectionalist perspectives on power and privelege. Under these models, men are the priveleged class and attacking them because of the privelege is acceptable.

Intersectionalist and cultural Marxist frameworks always put the various victim groups as nobel and always in the right while those in power (men, white, christian, wealthy, and heterosexual) are always viewed as wrong. They view 'punching up' at those in power as okay while 'punching down' on the victim groups as never acceptable.

The part of the progressive arguments that are bullshit is that they will justify the sexism against men (myangry) as acceptable because men are oppressors while sexism against women (mysogeny) is wrong because they are victims. There is no standard of judgement other than the identity of the group you are attacking determines how right or wrong the action is. This is how these groups think and justify their behavior.

tacticaltossaway · 2023-10-07T00:57:01+00:00

It's because men are acceptable targets, like Nazis.

TheRedPillRipper · 2023-10-07T02:25:39+00:00

How does misandrist rhetoric differ

It’s profitable. Fear of the ‘arsenic’ keeps everyone buying. New strawberries. Trying apples. Prickly pears. Anything but potentially poisoned strawberries.

It’s simply targeted marketing. To the biggest consumer base. Girl bosses. Fat acceptance. Believe all women. The campaign doesn’t matter. It’s simply a tool. To sow discord and doubt. Between men and women.

Jordan Peterson says it best; ‘we’re more alike than we are different.’ That message however, doesn’t sell strawberries.

Godspeed and good luck!

SamuraiGoblin · 2023-10-07T03:22:32+00:00

The obvious rebuttal to the strawberries analogy is vetting.

Don't blindly eat strawberries one after another if you know a few might be toxic. Take one and test it thoroughly before you pop it in your mouth.

The same is true for dating, for both men AND women. Don't blindly let people into your life without truly knowing something about them. Don't put yourself into a vulnerable situation on a first date with a stranger off the internet.

Yes it's true that some evil people can mask and hide their toxicity, and so a few might get through the gaps. But if you take things slowly, take red flags seriously, and investigate the person thought social media, friends, family, etc, the chances of you eating a toxic strawberry are reduced to near zero.

The solution is not to shun/demonise ALL strawberries.

AloneOnTheStrange · 2023-10-07T09:14:00+00:00

As the old red pill advice goes, look at their actions, not their words.

Deciding to keep yourself safe and avoid risk is good advice. Even basing that risk on statistics may be acceptable. But probably not for personal relationships. So do the actions of misandrists really show avoidance of men based on statistical risk?

Do they avoid all men, all the time? Or, do they only avoid some men, men that are on one side of the scale of attractiveness? I guess they have statistics that show attractive men are less likely to rape and beat them...

Do they avoid any other activities or people based on statistics? Certain races might commit more crimes against women than others. Do they avoid those races? Probably not. Racism is shamed, where misandry is accepted. She will set her statistical risk aside when it comes to how others judge her morals.

Does her avoidance of men correlate with her vetting of them? Does she avoid the nice but shy guy who she's worked with for four years? Perhaps four years isn't long enough to figure out if he's a serial killer or not. But that attractive guy she just met, she's already cleared him of wrongdoing.

Does she avoid all risky situations with men? Does she go clubbing in slutty outfits and visit notoriously high crime countries? Does she avoid coffee dates with one man, and then goes back to another's place to do drugs?

Does she act cautious around the men that she's with? Imagine you're in a room with a big, tough, angry looking biker. I'm going to be walking on eggshells to make sure I don't piss that person off. Does she act that way around the men she claims are dangerous? Or, does she tease them, belittle them, insult them, blame them, argue with them? You get the point.

It's clear risk has absolutely nothing to do with a woman's hatred of men. She just wants an excuse to justify her treatment of unattractive men, while holding attractive men to no such standard.

MxMaster9907 · 2023-10-07T02:27:43+00:00

Every single woman has multiple horror stories relating to men. Every. Single. One.

I don’t blame them for being extremely cautious.

SmallSituation6432 · 2023-10-07T01:30:09+00:00

There is a lot to unpack here but clearly flat out "one bad apple spoils the barrel" applied to all men is absurd. As to why misandry seems more acceptable than other negative generalizations for groups of people (minorities, women, racial groups) it very much follows the logic of comedy. Always punch up. Its funny when Sepp Blatter falls off a stage on tv, its not funny when your grandad falls off stage at the local theatre. People can be more outrageous knocking on men because there is still a long way to go before men are no longer the most advantaged group. That doesn't make it right or just, and I assume most people (**edit** engaging in this type of misandry) would argue that the injustice specifically serves to counter the injustices perpetrated by men.

GridReXX · 2023-10-07T01:08:06+00:00

1) What they said. Fathers of daughters and brothers of sisters paint boys and men as dangerous weapons of mass destruction who might ruin her. They also stress over protecting her as if he thinks every man is a potential pedo, molestor, sexual predator, or a violent abuser. So idk ask fathers/brothers/uncles/male cousins why they feel that way? Is that “misandry” to you?

2) What they said:

Other forms of bigotry (such as misogyny) involve rape, murder, coercive control, abuse, [subjugation], & systemic oppression.

"Misandry" usually involves just avoiding men.

dennekie · 2023-10-07T08:28:43+00:00

i find it absolutely hilarious how the people in these replies are taking the stance of “why is that ok, but if i said the about black people now i’m wrong???”

such a stereotypical response lmao. racist people truly stand out like a sore thumb huh

TSquaredRecovers · 2023-10-07T01:48:32+00:00

Looking out for our safety does not constitute misandry.

OrangeCrush0x00 · 2023-10-07T12:10:33+00:00

I guess the bright side of this is that rhetoric like this gave me enough motivation to transition.

Prestigious-Delay759 · 2023-10-07T14:47:15+00:00

I agree, bigotry is bigotry.

They used to literally teach in school the "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" test, to see if something was bigoted.

The TLDR version is,

You're making a generalization or statement about a group and instead of being a group that has an ideology that people join willingly so that everyone in general knows what their bad or what they're into it's a thing like skin color or ethnicity or whatnot where people don't get to choose whether they belong to it or not.

If you have a statement that is incredibly negative about a group change the name of the group to "black" (or another group in your culture that has experienced a lot of discrimination) if suddenly you sound like a racist then the statement is bigoted and you need to rethink your assumptions.

Similarly if you have a statement that is incredibly positive about a group change the name of the group to "white" and if you suddenly sound like a minister of propaganda for the Nazis then the statement is bigoted and you need to rethink your assumptions.

Opening_Tell9388 · 2023-10-07T01:41:56+00:00

Punching up vs punching down. Minorities in societies tend to get away with mocking the majority. You can find this in most societies. Like you can make all the white jokes you want and no one really cares, just like you can make all the jokes on men and no one really cares. Because they are for all intent and purposes the status quo.

CloudsTasteGeometric · 2023-10-07T12:05:15+00:00

As someone with a background and degree in Sociology, the answer is simple:

Men are seen as a powerful, privileged class of people.

Have you ever heard the opinion that Black people cannot be racist towards White people? This phenomenon follows the same logic: namely that racism fundamentally involves leveraging institutional power and privilege to oppress or hate another, less privileged people group.

Women calling out men for being trash or engaging in casual misandry is a consequence of the fact that, even in our progressive, feminist times, men still control the majority of wealth and commit the majority of violence.

Never mind the fact that men are overwhelmingly the victims of that violence or homelessness that comes from that concentration of wealth.

Women are "strong" for calling out men, and any kind of generalizations that bleed out of that are irrelevant because men still "hold the power" and "deserve" to be knocked down a peg - while women still deserve to be a protected special class - as it is one of the only privileges that the systems of misogyny over the past several centuries afforded women.

TL;DR: it isn't a problem because men are still seen as the oppressors. Women aren't "punching down," and that's what really matters.

nicoleberry16 · 2023-10-07T16:17:40+00:00

Misandry is against an institutionally privileged group of people, men. The oppressed cannot be the oppressors, which is the agenda that men (particularly incels, manosphere, red pill) seem to like to push.

Smooth_Possession_67 · 2023-10-07T05:34:04+00:00

Men are physically stronger than women. Men are also way more violent to women than the other way around (sheer numbers).

CatchPhraze · 2023-10-07T02:25:20+00:00

In the metaphor the point is to never eat strawberries. It's to avoid the ones in that bowl.

Reasonable risk mitigation isn't bigotry.

Furbyenthusiast · 2023-10-07T13:48:53+00:00

Unlike misogyny, misandry isn't backed by existing systems and institutions. Misogyny is systemic, but misandry isn't. It's for the same reason that calling a white person a "cracker" does not hold the same weight as calling a black person the "n-word."

Makuta_Servaela · 2023-10-07T04:10:20+00:00

It's based on conversations about systemic bigotry. For example, rich people are more likely to listen to other rich people calling them out for bigotry than they'd listen to poor people, cops more likely to listen to other cops than civilians, white people to other white people, men to other men, etc, etc. Therefore, people in the oppressor classes not speaking out and working to fix other people in their class are considered the bunch spoiled by the bad apple.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just saying that's what it's from. A black person who doesn't like white people can't generally do as much as a system of white people who don't like black people can do. Same with sex and any other class.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2023-10-07T01:05:31+00:00

The left have no allies just useful tools and in the moment they stop being useful it's ok to be hateful against them. Men on average are very hard on their core beliefs and will avoid to compromise their morals, what basically make them horrible allies to a cause that requires you to backstab your family at the first moment it's asked for (like how Zoe Quinn made a men commit suicide and his sister didn't had the decency to stay by his side).

There's nothing they hate more than an honest, hard working man.

YasuotheChosenOne · 2023-10-07T03:29:53+00:00

The funny part is that for the most part, it’s women putting the “poison strawberries” in the bowl in the first place.

It’s crazy, cause ya’ll had it. Women had the game on lock and they blew it. All they had to do was get that no fault divorce and other things to make marriage better for themselves, and that’s it. Sexual revolution fucked you cause giving away free pussy “poisons” men.

bluehorserunning · 2023-10-07T03:27:24+00:00

It’s not, ‘all strawberries are bad, you should avoid ever looking at or touching or eating or interacting with strawberries at all.’

It’s ‘the strawberries in this dish might be poison, and you should avoid eating them.’

sweetbrown89 · 2023-10-07T14:13:22+00:00

When it comes down to it, men are mad that we value our lives more than their access to sex

controllrevival · 2023-10-07T16:11:58+00:00

My gf told me that she hated men the other day , and that she loved me because I’m different. To answer your question though I don’t think the misandry we always hear is on the same level as racism because they are totally different dynamics. Men have always treated women as second class, and women’s can be seen as “retaliating” defensively against the “patriarchy “ , so it’s not the same as white peoples hating the fuck out of black people for simply existing, they’re totally different and not at all comparable. I will say that I think that this popularity of misandry pushes more men to redpill/incel type rhetoric and that this will hurt women overall more than help them

Glittering_File_6990 · 2023-10-07T10:37:43+00:00

Uh might be the history of male oppression and it's lingering ramifications

vivienneebackwood · 2023-10-07T12:27:03+00:00

misandry isn’t real (at least not in any substantial way). it’s stupid to compare it to bigotry that has oppressed many groups of people for hundreds of years. some forms of bigotry had literal laws that oppressed people.

haven’t heard of any “misandrist” laws.

Rogue5454 · 2023-10-07T06:46:58+00:00

You might as well ask “how is racism different from other forms of bigotry in a way that makes it acceptable?”

Misandry is a reaction (to 4000 yrs of oppression & more); not a chosen active action as is such with bigotry.

People (men/women/other) choose to be racist, homophobic, etc, Women don’t choose to hate men. Men do choose to be misogynistic, etc.

CryptoThroway8205 · 2023-10-07T05:34:45+00:00

Misogyny and Misandry are both accepted within their own communities. Misogyny might get reported and taken down like some reddit subs.

Unfortunately I do think social media (algorithms cause echo chambers) has started making a divide between two groups of people. Those who hate most men and those who hate most women. The problem is that if you go into relationships with this mindset then they're likely to fail.

BunnyFlopped · 2023-10-08T11:49:07+00:00

So the reason why misandry is different (but still unhealthy) is because the reaction to oppression is not the same as being an oppressor.

Let’s say I break into your house. I attack you, and you attack me back. Your use of self defense, even if you continue after I am defeated, is distinctly different than my initial attack.

If I went “haha but YOU did it back to me” you’d think I’m delusional. Likewise, men as a whole are oppressors and some women unfortunately fall into mentalities that are more toxic than others since they are human. Being part of an oppressive group and then going “:( but you don’t like me so it’s equal” is not a sentiment that is consistent.

Another example: ableism as a concept

People who are disabled who then dislike that there is no design equity in their daily life are not “against abled people” if they then criticize us for our lack of consideration.

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wacko_angry · 2023-10-07T19:46:16+00:00

Men have a monopoly on violence, women pose no actual threat to us.

Women just LARP that they’re badass men actually are.

TimeConstraints · 2023-10-08T08:37:05+00:00

If she doesn't want a man, her tortured reasoning doesn't much matter.

Comfortable-Hall1178 · 2023-10-08T16:39:52+00:00

Just because SOME men are misogynistic assholes and treat women like crap doesn’t mean ALL men will be like this, regardless of cultural/ethnic background.

buttbuttpooppoop · 2023-10-10T03:55:45+00:00

Misandry doesn't exist on a structural or systemic level.

alieshaxmarie · 2023-10-10T07:30:05+00:00

Either way, discrimination and any kind is extremely disgusting. I’m only gonna talk about why misandry is seen completely different compared to misogyny. Misogyny leads to woman getting raped, killed, hurt, etc. Misogyny has literally caused woman to not be able to go to school, work, do what makes them happy, or even fucking live. Misogyny is genuinely really hurting people. Misandry isn’t really causing any of those things. Again, it’s terrible to discriminate but it’s not nearly as harmful as it’s counterpart

A lot of people also are more okay with misandry is because it comes from a place of fear, a lot of misandrists feel this way because they’ve been personally victimized by misogyny

Title	How is misandry different from other forms of biogtry in a way that make it acceptable?
Author	FutureBannedAccount2
Upvotes	70
Comments	662
Date	October 7, 2023 12:50 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/171sz5u/how_is_misandry_different_from_other_forms_of/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-is-misandry-different-from-other-forms-of.1234225 https://theredarchive.com/post/1234225

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