Nobody ever died from the house not being perfectly clean and tidy all the time, yet women's complaints that the man doesn't help around the house enough are taken super seriously, but a man is called a selfish asshole if he complains about lack of sex

VasiliyZaitzev · 2023-12-31T14:21:23+00:00

You know it is funny how women feel about dishes etc and how connected it can be to sex. I was in an LDR once (about a 4 hour drive; it was fun while it lasted), and when I was there, she was working and I was not, so I dropped her at work in the morning, went back to her place, napped for a bit, then I got up and did the dishes from last night, NBD, because why wouldn't I? Many hands make quick work or whatever.

I picked her up from lunch and she went into the kitchen and came flying back out, exclaiming "YOU DID THE DISHES!!!" far to excitedly. Me, "Um, did I do something wrong?" Her, a bit more sexy this time with a sly smile: "You did the dishes!" Me: "Why wouldn't I?" Massive nooner erupts.

So yeah, every day I was there after that I would do the dishes before lunch and we'd spend her lunch hour having sex. A good deal all the way around.

Mentathiel · 2023-12-31T15:12:35+00:00

Mf thinks cleaning his own house is "helping"

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-12-31T14:42:07+00:00

So live in a filthy house while never getting laid? That’s one way to go, I guess.

froderenfelemus · 2023-12-31T12:12:35+00:00

I think it’s about more than the cleaning really. It’s the mental load of being the only one who cares about their environment, household chores and whatnot. When she says “hang your coat instead of throwing it on the couch” or something, and he doesn’t, it triggers the “he doesn’t care enough to listen” mentality that she’s experienced in the relationship before. It’s a lot deeper than just being tidy.

Sex needs to be consensual. Cleaning doesn’t. I don’t think those two things can be that closely compared. But what I can say is; you’re more likely to have sex, as a couple, if one partner isn’t carrying the mental load of the house and household. If your partner feels loved, appreciated, heard and supported, the odds of sex are significantly better.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-12-31T12:17:27+00:00

If one person isn't cleaning the house, they'll still expect the other person to do it. The same problem doesn't apply to having sex.

Lysa_Bell · 2023-12-31T15:42:51+00:00

I think I saw a study somewhere that women tend to get stressed out by clutter/unclean spaces and they have to have these spaces clean to relax, while men get stressed out by the cleaning itself and not by the clutter/unclean spaces. Apparently different states of being/actions raises the cortisol levels different in genders.

So while men might get stressed out from not having sex, women might get stressed out from untidy spaces. We don't decide how we react to certain situations. Our hormones do.

The only logical consequence is to be a team and try to accommodate the other person as best as possible and recognize their needs and stressors. Stuff like "you won't die from a untidy house" or "you won't die from not having sex" helps no one and will only lead to resentment over dismissive comments.

Everyone needs to try their best in all areas or a relationship won't be sustainable.

LilRedMoon__ · 2023-12-31T12:51:21+00:00

People have definitely died from having a messy house lmao it was literally an episode on 1000 ways to die.

YogurtclosetThen7959 · 2023-12-31T16:53:23+00:00

You're saying sex is like a chore. Bro what the fuck is wrong with you.

MidoriEgg · 2023-12-31T11:50:05+00:00

It depends on the situation really. Houses don’t have to be perfectly spotless and it’s unfair to hold it to too high a standard, but if a man is continually not contributing to keeping the house in decent shape, and worse making messes and not cleaning them, that’s an issue.

Whenever I read posts about sexless marriage's the response is really different depending on the circumstances; for example if the couple have just had a new baby and the man is complaining about lack of sex then people see him as the problem, but usually if there’s no confounding factors and the man has tried interventions/romantic gestures/counselling, people are usually more sympathetic towards him.

I don’t think it’s really fair to compare issues of sex and house work, since each situation will be unique.

avpd_girl · 2023-12-31T11:52:36+00:00

Pretty sure some people have died from not keeping their house clean.

Also if you’re not sexual compatible, you shouldn’t be in a relationship anyway.

literaryhogwartian · 2023-12-31T13:30:34+00:00

Can anyone get in the mood when living in a mess?

meangingersnap · 2023-12-31T13:49:50+00:00

Because everyone has a responsibility to take care of the house they live in and no one has the responsibility to make you nut

Demasii · 2023-12-31T14:30:48+00:00

I knew a three month old who got E Coli in both eyes because of the shit hole the parents were living in. I never seen their place but a friend woke up hung over there after a night out told me it was a terrifying experience.

A house that isn't dusted isn't important to most people's standards. It's a problem when a SO who don't do laundry and can't even put clothes in the hamper complain about a lack of clean underwear.

It definitely hard to judge since we can't see their living conditions.

killjumpsteady · 2023-12-31T12:30:23+00:00

Yall really need to stop living on the internet so much

relish5k · 2023-12-31T13:42:37+00:00

A chaotic and messy home is not good for anyone’s mental health (and depending on how dirty, can pose a risk to physical health as well).

If clothes and toys are everywhere, dishes are piled up…it’s just very stressful.

Doesn’t mean it needs to be spotless (it won’t ever be, especially with kids around), but everyone needs to do their fair share.

And cleaning is only part of it - there’s also cooking, childcare pick up’s and drop-offs, scheduling doctors appointments, provisioning household items, etc. all of this requires a joint effort (proportional of course to how much time each parent spends doing paid work)

WANT_SOME_HAM · 2023-12-31T17:45:46+00:00

It's so revealing you consider sex an unpleasant chore you have to put up with.

Nothing to read into there.

KikiYuyu · 2023-12-31T18:24:14+00:00

The fact that you are comparing an inanimate thing to access to someone's body is very telling. You clearly don't think it's that big a deal.

You're allowed to feel how you feel about lack of sex, you're allowed to voice your desire for it, but you aren't owed someone's body, no matter what.

KayRay1994 · 2023-12-31T14:29:52+00:00

a messy house can be distracting and actually shitty for one’s mental health. Having to constantly clean it can become stressful, especially when there is no help.

Also sex and cleaning the house aren’t nearly at the same league, one is an act of connection and pleasure, and one is about the wellbeing/cleanliness of a living space. Ergo, expecting someone to be fine with sex when something is mentally distracting them or stressing them out is kind of a weird expectation to have

WhoAmIEven2 · 2023-12-31T16:22:25+00:00

I don't get why cleaning is such a big issue for some men. I find it relaxing and calming to clean. And a clean home (not super clean, I just vacuum and wipe a rug over my tables and surfaces. I also mop the floors like once a month) makes good for my mental health.

I lived with one of my best friends whose room was a complete mess. Clothes and pizza boxes everywhere. I had to yell at him so many times to clean his room, like an annoying parent. (It was my rental apartment, and not something we moved in together in, so I had a responsibility by contract to take care of the apartment.).

clitclamchowder · 2023-12-31T18:20:33+00:00

I read an article about how a little boy fell and broke his leg because the house was messy. His mom was overwhelmed, and breastfeeding the youngest when she saw it happen. A dirty house also affects the children’s mental health. Their dads orgasms don’t (unless he’s a douche who lashes out on his family).

Sure sex is important but what’s classified as lack of sex??? My husband never let me go more than two weeks PP without having to put out again. The longest he’s ever been without sex when I’m not PP is maybe 5 days. He gets it usually at least every other day, if not every two days. On top of that, I have to make sure it doesn’t dare feel like “duty sex” to him or else I’m the problem. He would be reading me stories from deadbedroom because I was only having sex with him 3 times a week, while I was breastfeeding our infant son. Meanwhile, this man didn’t even know where the damn forks were in a house that he lived in for 6 months. I made him an apple pie (as he requested) and I wouldn’t serve it to him until it cooled off so he decided to get his own plate and fork for once and he was literally opening all the kitchen drawers because he didn’t know where the forks were.

So I mean yeah, a lot of women like me would probably get triggered when they hear something like that.

But let me guess-it’s “my fault” for “letting” him treat me like that and I should have “picked better”. But was an “unforeseen” flip of a switch for all these women who aren’t horny for their pos husbands anymore.

Sorry I’m not horny for a man who literally complains and refuses to refill my water for me while I’m breastfeeding his 2 day old baby. He wouldn’t dare waste his energy on his wife who birthed his son but he surely has the time and energy to jerk off to porn while his wife is changing diapers in the other room.

A lot of these “poor men” who’s wives don’t want to fuck them anymore not only have extremely unrealistic expectations and double standards but they also aren’t giving the whole story.

kerfufflewhoople · 2023-12-31T20:27:03+00:00

The house “not being perfectly clean and tidy” according to men like OP = leaves his dirty socks strewn around, has never ironed his shirts, watered a plant, planned grocery shopping or meals unprompted. Can lie down on the couch for hours on end while an inch-thick layer of dust gathers on top of furniture. Will play his video game for 5+ hours but not take a minute to throw out yesterday’s stale pizza.

The woman who doesn’t give men like OP enough sex = full time job but still has to project manage an entire household, make appointments for the kids, plan meals and groceries while pumping breast milk because she just gave birth. Upon getting home, spends 3+ hours bathing kids, making dinner, doing laundry and cleaning while husband lies on the couch. Husband proceeds to demand sex when she finally goes to bed.

hungrychick404 · 2023-12-31T13:59:28+00:00

Are you sure you’re a purple pill woman?

mrs_seng · 2023-12-31T12:39:47+00:00

A woman usually can't have sex if she isn't mentally relaxed.

And mental work comes from many sources: from work related stress, to child related stress, to housekeeping related stress, to financial stress, to errands related stress, to health related stress and other sources of stress that she particularly feels.

So what a man can do is contribute, do his share of work. And no, just because he has a job doesn't mean he is exempted from cleaning, washing dishes, taking care of the children, especially if she works as well.

They both work full time jobs? Then he can help children with homework while she makes a meal. He can wash the dishes while she tidies the house. He can iron clothes while she runs errands.

bluepvtstorm · 2023-12-31T13:16:36+00:00

If my emotional needs are not being met, I don’t want to be touched. At all. I don’t care are you as long as you prove that you don’t care about me.

That means, if I am constantly figuring out dinner or making sure the bathroom is clean or changing the sheets and the male person keeps ignoring that those things are being done and should be a shared responsibility. I don’t even want to kiss that person goodbye.

A male person doesn’t get access to my body while trying to disconnect my body from my sense of peace and emotions.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2023-12-31T13:58:07+00:00

Did OP forget that someone needs to be attracted in order to desire sex? Slobs aren’t attractive.

Warm_Gur8832 · 2023-12-31T17:02:41+00:00

No one ever died of lack of sex either, though?

Zombombaby · 2023-12-31T17:51:26+00:00

People have been charged for neglect leading to child endangerment/death and it is a form of abuse. Not to mention, it depreciates the home over time and it can lead to serious health issues like black mold. So I mean, yeah, people do die from living in filth.

It's not abusive to turn down someone for sex.

DreaminInChocolate · 2023-12-31T18:51:03+00:00

There are studies that show that sex is associated with better health outcomes and better psychology. The idea that sex is not important is BS, it clearly is important for many people.

Said no rape victim ever. No one has ever died from not having sex. Get a divorce.

Crafty_Appeal_4331 · 2023-12-31T19:21:31+00:00

Sex is a want. A tidy clean safe home for the kids, equal parenting, a fully present partner is a need a necessity. Until a man is an equal contributor to parenting and to the labor then he doesn’t deserve sex and a woman should never give it to him if he isn’t meeting her needs either.

Thatshygurl · 2023-12-31T15:48:44+00:00

I believe you’re misrepresenting the issue. The issue is men nowadays want to split bills 50/50 AND for the woman to do 100% of the cleaning. THATS the issue. Imagine working 50+ hours a week and also being expected to maintain a certain level of clean in the house.

Also yes no one dies from a dirty house, but when it’s dirty to an uncomfortable extent it can actually be detrimental to your mental health.

And it’s no wonder a woman who’s working full time, cleaning the house by herself and taking care of the kids doesn’t want to have sex.

bluestjuice · 2023-12-31T15:50:47+00:00

I think the main disparity here is that one of these is household labor and one is a mutually enjoyable physical experience. You’re not exactly wrong but it’s also not unreasonable that society has different beliefs about these things.

Namely, people generally have the belief that people should keep their homes fairly tidy and free of filth and vermin. That informs their thoughts about how that work should be managed within individual households, with people who hold egalitarian values believing that generally all partners should contribute evenly to household labor.

General views on sex are that it should be a mutually enjoyable activity, and that the correct quantity of sex in a relationship is going to depend on the individuals in question. Most people believe that there should be some sex but there is understood to be a wide range of normal rather than a simple threshold. Serious libido mismatches are considered to be either a matter where compromise is warranted or where the couple has a fundamental incompatibility (this seems to break down somewhat along ideological lines).

thisreallyisnotok · 2023-12-31T18:15:33+00:00

Being aroused and having a presentable living space go hand in hand.

Crafty_Appeal_4331 · 2023-12-31T20:34:48+00:00

Ladies, if your partner starts in on the love language bullshit and saying he needs sex, don’t waste your breath arguing with him about the book’s sexist origins. He’ll run you round in circles and you’ll never get to the real point, which is of course that you are entitled to love, too.

Instead, remind him: You are both entitled to receive love in your own love language, and to give love in the way that feels best to the other person. It’s not a one-way street.

Oh, so he needs sex to feel loved because it’s his love language? Well you need equal participation in household labor, because acts of service are your love language.

It’s all about insisting that your needs are just as important as his, and there will no longer be a dynamic in which all of his wants have to be met before any of your needs can even be discussed.

Susiewoosiexyz · 2023-12-31T23:51:46+00:00

Men: I just want a beautiful woman who takes care of herself. Fit, healthy, active (no fatties!). She also needs to be able to support herself (no gold diggers!). She should be able to cook and clean and take pride in her home and appearance (no slobs!).

Also men: Why are these active, smart, house proud women unwilling to just let the house fall apart and have sex with me whenever I want? 🙄

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2023-12-31T15:21:46+00:00

Do… do you think there aren’t studies that show having a clean house is associated with better health outcomes? Cuz there are….

This is literally comparing apples to tennis shoes (that apparently aren’t put away)

Inevitable-Log9197 · 2023-12-31T16:03:48+00:00

If your partner has problems with your frequency of wanting to have sex and you think that he should break up with you if he’s not comfortable with that, than you should also break up with your partner if you’re not comfortable with the frequency of his cleanings.

The onus to break up is on the party who’s not comfortable with any standards the other party has.

Easteuroblondie · 2023-12-31T19:01:42+00:00

Don’t think people die from lack of sex either

This is a very apples and oranges comparison

Safinated · 2023-12-31T19:46:50+00:00

No one likes doing housework.

You’re supposed to like having sex…aren’t you?

SirLoremIpsum · 2024-01-01T00:54:05+00:00

Because doing household chores to live, and having sex are two very different things?

Clean the dishes man. Everyone should participate in living. Dishes, cooking, cleaning aren't gendered roles.

thekinkyhairbookworm · 2024-01-01T01:20:45+00:00

Why would I be in the mood and want to have sex with a man who doesn’t help maintain the household? Explain that for me

whoisjohnnyrook · 2023-12-31T15:33:51+00:00

So you’re saying sex is a chore for the woman?

MistyMaisel · 2023-12-31T16:54:03+00:00

Oh this is easy. A romantic committed relationship isn't a free pass to sex. Sex is the result of a joyful and harmonious relationship in which two people have the time and interest in sex. It's the fruit essentially, it's not a guarantee or even a requirement.

Now, cleaning up is a part of being a healthy, well adjusted, and competent adult. And of course, you're allowed not to be that. But tell your partner straight out that you have no intention of behaving like a mature adult.

Will this likely end with them leaving you? Yes. But still, be honest. Stop pretending like these things are the same thing.

By the by, if you find the sex is waning and your woman is complaining about a filthy house. I'd bet a dollar if you start being more competent and cleaning more, the health and harmony of your relationship will grow and yield more sex as a result. Could be wrong, but it seems likely.

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RubyWooToo · 2023-12-31T20:46:38+00:00

You’ve clearly never heard of a hoarders’ homes burning down or homes that became unlivable because mold and pest infestation.

itsokiloveu · 2023-12-31T23:39:35+00:00

There is actually a direct correlation between husbands getting laid and them doing chores. No woman wants to have sex with a lazy man who she resents for doing nothing around the house.

I was in a 3-year relationship where I did absolutely everything and started becoming his mother rather than his girlfriend. My sexual attraction was gone.

Im_Unsure_For_Sure · 2023-12-31T13:31:29+00:00

I think the issue is that the default assumption that if a woman is complaining about her partner not doing 50% of the housework, the assumption is ALWAYS that he's a douchebag slob who shits in the corner of the living room.

When in reality, we've all known people who are neurotic about how their home looks and it would be unhealthy to make a partner participate in that craziness.

We need to stop assuming any scenario is an extreme one and look at these type of concerns individually. But that kind of shift in thinking would only take place if it were women getting the shitty end of the current defaulting thinking, but as it stands, we are at women = clean, men = slobs.

wardenferry419 · 2023-12-31T11:58:10+00:00

Some wives will invest more time and attention to cleaning a bathroom than is given to their spouse. Alot fewer men commit to lawn care with the same intensity that they commit to sex care.

No-Rough-7390 · 2023-12-31T15:11:21+00:00

When people have been together a long time and the cleanliness of the home appears as an issue down the road tied to something like intimacy, there is a 99% chance the issue is something else. It provides plausible deniability for why her desire has disappeared.

banalredditing · 2024-01-01T17:13:14+00:00

Women complain. If you base your life on taking it all seriously you'd never get anything done.

They need indignation the same way you need food and water

lacuti3 · 2023-12-31T12:14:25+00:00

Men don’t care about women they only care about sex. Women don’t care about men or sex, they only care about money and making their own lives easier. They keep men sex obsessed to make their own lives easier.

Btw why does your flair say woman when you’re not?

OmoshiroiKudamono · 2023-12-31T12:31:52+00:00

If the man has to do "chores" and be a "good wittle boy," the wife has probably lost attraction. Sex should be MUTUAL.

Let's say the man DOES the chores. There WILL be something else that happens. The goalposts keep moving.

Even IF the man DOES the hoop jumping, the sex is DUTY, TRANSACTIONAL sex.

I want to see the reaction if the man says "F*ck it, I QUIT my job. I'm applying at McDonalds."

Ok-Hornet-7155 · 2023-12-31T13:02:26+00:00

My theory is this. Women create this house work issue in a couple of ways. They usually decorate how they want. Usually it isn’t the men decorating. They want things to look and appear a certain way. If it were up to the men, they would probably remove 90% of the stuff that is in the house making their job of cleaning a lot easier. Because women require control in this area, in terms of where things go and how they look, they aren’t really asking for help “cleaning”. They are asking for help making things appear the way they want them to appear, which is different than simply house chores. A man can assist with cleaning and women will complain about the way he does it. It’s a never ending cycle. I’m convinced that the issue isn’t with the cleaning, per say, but with the fact that women need to “feel” as if the situation is equal or fair. If I was a man. I’d simply go through the motions of helping to clean and just allow a woman to complain about me. She will complain either way anyway

Lower-Director1043 · 2024-01-01T19:44:32+00:00

WOMEN COMPLAIN because of their heightened sensitivity and anxiety or they complain because they feel invisible.

bastrdsnbroknthings · 2023-12-31T16:01:43+00:00

I love the fact that the default assumption these days is that it’s the man that doesn’t keep up with cleaning and other household chores. I’ve had about 5 out of 6 long term relationships where I did way more of that shit than the women. In my experience, modern women can’t be bothered with that shit and will completely resent you for daring to think that they’ll clean up or cook you dinner once in awhile.

Financial_Chemist286 · 2023-12-31T14:46:26+00:00

Traditionally if I go to work every day and bring home the bacon like you’re the wife and in a new car, you have health insurance. You own a nice home that you didn’t put any money down or into but just ended up on the title at purchase. Plus you do what you want all day.

The least I would like is a tidy home to come home to from work and a meal maybe but good luck even getting that these days with the self indulgent modern day people who just seem to take and give very little.

When I say tidy I mean the in between for when the housekeeping comes and actually cleans deep but God forbid if you have to do a little laundry for me.

Again you can be the man and be traditional but modern day women are not traditional and the ones that are pretty with beauty expect to be catered to like country club and brunches with girlfriend at the spa.

AceOfSpadesGymBro3 · 2023-12-31T13:24:50+00:00

Women complain. It's what they do.

SecondEldenLord · 2023-12-31T12:34:59+00:00

Women love to complain and dramatise about everything. But can we blame a fish for acting like a fish?

tr1xnh0z · 2023-12-31T15:35:00+00:00

ne thing dudez complain bout is selfish...ne thing chickz bitch bout is fine...been dat way foreva...juzt nother reason not to git married

boom-wham-slam · 2023-12-31T12:53:20+00:00

if a woman complains on reddit about how the man isn't helping enough with the chores, people take what she says super seriously

This is what causes this:

why is it perfectly acceptable to stop having sex with your spouse?

I highly recommend men not doing any house chores, because then more sex happens. Women cleaning makes them horny. It's counter intuitive because men don't think this way, but men and women are not the same. This is why they care about a clean house and the men don't. They are different. And when they contribute to the household they feel good and happy and proud.

TeddyMGTOW · 2023-12-31T12:12:07+00:00

If there have nothing to bitch about it's usually the house. so be a jerk and get a side bitch..

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Retrospring · 2023-12-31T17:58:47+00:00

Women, actually, don't complain about such things. They don't. Problem is, simply being a man doesn't make someone a man anymore, not in this economy. The modern-day equivalent of yesterday's traditional man--whom women would gladly support/clean for --is today's deca-millionaire.

RIchardjCranium · 2023-12-31T19:55:13+00:00

Sometimes it isn’t the splitting of duties, but the level that some people feel that cleanliness is achieved. What is clean and acceptable to some people is horrible and gross to other people. I’ve cohabitated with a platonic female, who frequently whines that my half of the house is not up to her standards where I look at it and go well it doesn’t bother me.

hockey_psychedelic · 2023-12-31T23:00:37+00:00

Go watch Mad Men and how things were. This is what that fool Trump calls being ‘Great Again’. As a white man…. Well… it looked pretty good to me. Yet 1/2 the women are voting for Trump?

HotOutcome9161 · 2024-01-01T07:27:07+00:00

it could lead to having your kids taken away if you don‘t provide them with a clean house. If kids go to school in dirty clothes, that‘s the first warning signal for school staff.

ClassroomSlight3215 · 2024-01-01T14:43:23+00:00

It’s not that no one ever died, it’s that it’s always clean so men don’t notice and think it just appears that way because men who don’t help out and just get added to her burden of things to take care of, end up becoming an extra child in her eyes. It makes the vajajajaajajay dry up and turns into an ick. Which in turn is an icky dick. So really, she’s doing you a favor. 🤭

2024-01-02T00:05:23+00:00

Thousands of people literally do die from the house not being perfectly clean and tidy. People die tripping on things in the home and subsequently falling, unclean surfaces in places like the kitchen can lead to people contracting infections from ecoli salmonella, etc. and that’s just death alone, not to mention multitudes more of injuries and hospitalizations.

RorschachRosettes · 2024-01-02T18:14:04+00:00

Pro-tip: not doing shit around the house is likely the source of your not getting fucked by your wife.

What is your solution, to force women into having sex with you despite your not wanting to be tidy around the house? I mean, you're acting as though demanding that there be more of a shared labor to keep a clean home is the equivalent to putting shackles on you and demanding you clean lest you get taken outside for a whipping.

There are people right now, even with kids, who live in messy houses, are perfectly happy with the mess and do chores only once a week

Do you know who suffers from this? The kids. The kids suffer. Most people that come from very messy houses have a lot of trauma associated with the filth they had to tolerate growing up. They are NOT perfectly happy with the mess, and it will likely give them life-long struggles and battles that they will have to work overtime to work past just to ensure that they don't end up living life in a filthy home as an adult.

You cannot force people to have sex if they don't want to, and you are treading on some very dangerous grounds here with this post.

checkeredvansweedman · 2024-01-02T21:50:55+00:00

I laugh about the claim men don’t do enough enough chores. It’s a joke. Women just need an explanation for why they lose interest in their partner outside of instinct. The real reason is women didn’t evolve to be monogamous. Tell your bored woman you did the dishes vs telling her she can have sex with another man and see what gets her more excited.

LolpopZombie · 2024-01-03T15:10:37+00:00

Tell me you objectify women without telling me you objectify women.

Nobody ever died from the house not being perfectly clean and tidy all the time, yet women's complaints that the man doesn't help around the house enough are taken super seriously, but a man is called a selfish asshole if he complains about lack of sex

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