Submission is earned.

Comms · 2024-10-22T16:35:06+00:00

Well, there's a thread full of people enthusiastically flying their red flags.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-10-22T14:55:34+00:00

Why would one competent adult be submissive to another competent adult in a relationship? I just don’t see why that’s even a thing. Sure, in the past when women couldn’t stand on their own, or in countries/cultures where that’s still the cases, women had to or face being thrown out on the street. But now? Cui bono?

applejackpatches · 2024-10-22T13:37:22+00:00

I really wish we'd stop using the word submissive in all of these discussions about dating and marriage. Men with good intentions use the word to express their desire for respect in a relationship and for a woman to trust his leadership and guidance. Then you have the disgusting pigs who think submission means a woman who is okay with being a slave. If you don't want woman who is constantly opposed to the direction you want to go, say that. If you don't want a woman who is controlling, say that. If you want a woman who respects and trusts your ideas, intentions, and decisions, even if that doesn't always mean she agrees, and even if it means you ultimately defer to her desires after healthy discussion, say that.

Gravel_Roads · 2024-10-22T13:17:00+00:00

Submissive is not the same thing as "Traditional".

If the only reason a woman is "submissive" is if a man gives her gifts, then she's not a submissive woman, she's a sex worker. She's behaving submissively because she likes the gifts.

There are some submissive people out there (men and women) and they probably do better with assertive partners (men and women) so there's at least SOMEONE comfortable making calls for the household.

But it's less "earned" and more about picking a partner that compliments you and your lifestyle.

ie - I'm assertive, but don't WANT a submissive partner. My partner does have anxiety, which impedes them in some ways, but they're not submissive at all and have very firm preferences and desires, and we have to find a fair compromise that satisfies both of us when we make decisions (which I prefer).

OldBook649 · 2024-10-22T14:40:26+00:00

Submission is earned in a sense that the person has earned your trust to be a competent and benevolent decision maker who would not abuse one’s powers. It is not earned through money.

G4M35 · 2024-10-22T15:35:59+00:00

Who in their right mind would want a "submissive" partner?

Disastrous-Chart-928 · 2024-10-22T21:44:38+00:00

Can people stop using words like submissive and dominant it's insanely creepy and weird regardless of the gender.

I remember my boyfriend telling me about guy he knew that talked about dominance and submission, he was 5'7 and nobody could ever tolerate him.

Then you have 'dominant' women, these are just misandrists that want to humiliate men to combat some unresolved trauma.

I don't need to "submit" to my boyfriend to feel comfortable with my femininity, I do what my boyfriend says because I love him and like to make him happy. Just as my boyfriend goes the extra mile because he wants me to happy, not because he's "submissive", he's a self assured man that doesn't feel the need to compensate.

blonde___guardian · 2024-10-22T13:27:09+00:00

Let's be real: 95% of the time, men who identify as dominant are 5'9" chinless wonders battling anxiety and earning 70K a year at a desk job, and women who identify as submissive are terminally indecisive and want to be called good girls in bed. Their whole deal is a kink thing - which is fine, if a little cringe - and doesn't need to be earned. It just exists and they both kinda know that they're failing to meet any sort of traditional archetype.

MC-Purp · 2024-10-22T22:05:15+00:00

I couldn’t agree with this post more. Most men who fantasize about a traditional wife and family, don’t realize that they simply can afford it and it’s very difficult to make enough money to provide a middle class lifestyle on a sole income.

literaryhogwartian · 2024-10-22T13:40:13+00:00

People need a dictionary and to learn that 'submissiveness not the same as 'traditional'. Stay at home wives and mothers are rarely submissive

LillthOfBabylon · 2024-10-22T13:42:47+00:00

WILLING submission is earned. That’s why patriarchal systems dont work as well now. Less people are oppressed.

Artistic_Speech_1965 · 2024-10-22T13:23:12+00:00

That's my goal, I am in the category of old school/traditional men who want that kind of relationship. But it's true, there are some men who want the benefice without paying the price so they will be alone

catdog8020 · 2024-10-22T18:01:40+00:00

I don’t care if a woman is traditional, a whore, a saint, wants kids or not or even cooks and cleans, is a necromancer or Wiccan that gets naked in the forest. Although, i am a red pill i am egalitarian in my thinking. I agree! A man that thinks he’s gonna get a woman that is traditional better has some cash especially if he lives in America. Now the Southeast Asia or Eastern Europe then maybe he can find one. Submission is bought and earned lol 😂

bunbun6969 · 2024-10-22T18:31:15+00:00

I could never be submissive or be with someone who’s submissive. I find it wildly unattractive and I view submission as weak. I like it when people can banter, have deep discussions and debates and even give and receive criticism. If a man tries controlling me then it’s an easy way to get dumped.

Bubbly_Pension4020 · 2024-10-22T20:27:50+00:00

I wouldn't say most tradwives are actually submissive.

The guys I know with the submissive wives are usually narcissists.

Feisty-Saturn · 2024-10-22T13:10:20+00:00

Being a traditional woman, feminine woman, submissive woman has nothing to do with if you go 50/50 in a relationship.

As a child free woman I would never expect my man, that I claim to love, to shoulder the burden of putting a roof over our heads. Femininity revolves heavily around what you can give versus what you can take.

Traditional women worked. They worked hard labor on farms, they sold goods in markets. The idea that to be traditional you need to sit down and hold you hand out is something perpetuated by lazy woman.

Also submission is about trusting your man to lead. You can have a job and still trust you man to guide you. A lot of women don’t want to be guided though. They want to take all their man’s money, contribute nothing and still tell him what to do.

Cunnin_Linguists · 2024-10-22T13:03:35+00:00

If you want a provider, you have to earn it. Most men aren't providing for nothing. They don't just let money rain. They don't spend $200 on the first date. They expect women to have sex with them when they want it.

Realistically how many women are able and willing to be this archetype?

flipsidetroll · 2024-10-22T15:12:21+00:00

You are trying to talk sense to a group that is so blinded by biases, they can’t see their many many hypocrisies. I’ve tried for long enough. They only hear lalalalalaalaaa unless it’s something that panders to them.

py234567 · 2024-10-22T17:15:31+00:00

Reminds me of a convo I had to have w an ex gf who wanted to be dom but I had to explain how subbing actually works. Not many young people actually have good dom energy or actual good sub energy and it’s no fun. Porn corrupted everyone’s idea of sex

Alternative_Poem445 · 2024-10-22T14:04:14+00:00

what in the hell are you even talking about

ThanosSnapsSlimJims · 2024-10-22T18:12:24+00:00

Submissive isn't the right term. It's one that the grifters on YouTube use. Non-combative is better. My wife and I are equals, and occasionally have arguments, but she's not starting arguments for no purpose. Beat to your own drum as long as it includes doing your part to get the team where it needs to go.

Illustrious_Wish_383 · 2024-10-22T20:36:57+00:00

Don't want someone submissive. That just sounds like another job. Give me an adult who can handle her shit, I ain't your daddy.

MyUpSeemsDown · 2024-10-22T23:10:37+00:00

The whole "submissive" focus is the weirdest shit, even the traditional roles aren't "submissive" in that they're accepting the role of some sort of servitude, or somehow giving it all up to the man, it was just separation of different roles. I can't possibly fathom being with a woman who wants to do nothing but serve me, might as well be dating a robot.

Wanderingwombat1902 · 2024-10-23T01:56:37+00:00

Why would I want a submissive woman? I want my woman to be sexually aggressive, freak in the sheets type. I want her to want me, for her to initiate as much as I do.

From the standpoint of the relationship as a whole, why would I want a woman who never takes initiative, always defers to me, always is dependent on me and expects me to always be a stoic masculine hero all the time. That sounds rough

Ibn-Ach · 2024-10-22T15:19:45+00:00

provisioning and protection is earned.

see, it's easy.

Kapoue · 2024-10-22T17:35:36+00:00

The most submissive women I met were badass boss bitches during the day. They lived alone and were not looking for any long-term relationships. They were mid-level to high-level managers and certainly didn't need a man to provide for them.

Submissive sex is not about money or gifts. It's a kink about letting go of control.

I think you are conflating submissiveness and traditional people.

Iamthepyjama · 2024-10-22T19:03:45+00:00

Most men don't want a submissive woman

Most modern men definitely don't want to pay for one.

leosandlattes · 2024-10-22T13:39:02+00:00

I agree with your title, however, not the body of your post. Submission and femininity has little to do with not working, not having porn sex, or even not dressing a certain way.

Submission and femininity is about behavior in relation to your bf/husband, showing him you respect him. When you are receptive, yielding, agreeable, poised, soft, and compassionate, that’s what submissive is. Regardless of whether or not you work or have kids or have low or high n-count. Red Pill Women describes it in more detail here

And yes, red pill says that respect must be earned. But that has little to do with being a provider or paying 100%. It has to do with leading, good decision making, masculine capability, and earning a woman’s trust. And a man can do all this without being in some 1950’s religious tradcon relationship.

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breathofanarchy · 2024-10-22T13:39:26+00:00

Very true

DGenerationMC · 2024-10-22T17:40:35+00:00

Realistically how many modern men are able and willing to be this patriarch type?

Quick, someone hurry up and crunch the numbers!

Sholnufff · 2024-10-22T20:02:45+00:00

Submission is given freely by women when they have INITIAL HIGH INTEREST in a man. It is through dialogue and his actions that determine whether not she continues to be submissive.

When submission is earned, it means her interest level wasn't high enough to start. He has to not only prove himself to her, he has to continously show case his emotional fortitude and mental strength to her by passing her 💩tests.

As far as the majority of the post, the first paragraph is complete bull💩. Women break rules for the men they want all the time!

SadCahita · 2024-10-22T21:51:58+00:00

Are this traditional af women in this half of the planet with us, right now? lmfao

Ganymede309 · 2024-10-22T22:52:18+00:00

most men don't want submissive specifically, they want loyal and faithful which many perceive as traits in danger of being extinct

there are some men who actually don't want submissive like myself

EugeneCezanne · 2024-10-22T23:09:52+00:00

Eh, i see how you're trying to logic it out. But not really. Submissiveness is, more than anything, a personality trait.

Some of that stuff you mentioned might help create the right atmosphere for it, but it's ultimately just a matter of who she is and what she already desires.

However, there is a subset of women who really do contextualize their own behavior like you say though, and are very outspoken about it. Fulfilling the dominant role more, erm, convincingly would help some men with that subset. But most of the time, it's not so clear cut. It's really unreliable to tell what a person (man or woman) will be like in a relationship based on any other thing obvious about them—it's even harder to tell what kind of sex they're having.

Reasonable-Cookie783 · 2024-10-23T01:58:30+00:00

But a lot of modern women want to be taken care of and not provide anything traditional that's what is causing the problems. The red pill is all about improving yourself and being a leader/provider for your family. I think you are more referencing incels who want the government to assign them a woman like it's a welfare program and they don't have to do anything.

TasteAccomplished · 2024-10-23T02:05:18+00:00

Blue pillers in this thread really struggling with an argument beyond "lol I bet this guy hasn't been laid"

Myagooshki2 · 2024-10-23T03:11:48+00:00

Sounds cocky to me. How about a woman who is nice and likes to be cooperative and have similar interests? I don't have to earn shit. I do my thing.

Most women in the west have sex before marriage.

EsotericRonin · 2024-10-23T04:15:02+00:00

Id love it.

There's a certain type of woman in this thread who absolutely abhor the idea of deferring to their man and following his lead. They see being the traditionally masculine role as the only right way for themselves and anything less means they aren't equals. In reality the feminine and masculine are two different and equally important roles. But they're unable to comprehend this either because they're genuinely more masculine brained or because they've been convinced that women should aspire to be like men.

BobtheArcher2018 · 2024-10-23T05:46:30+00:00

What people mean by submissive seems to vary wildly. I think most modern men do not need anything like true submission, or even want it. What they want is some sort of respite from hypergamous judgment.

Competing and arguing with your woman is very different from the male perspective. If you lose, you do not only lose the point at hand, you lose overall respect and masculinity points. Lose too many, and you lose her. Or you get a woman that did date up in competence, but then seems to view trying to constantly test that as her mission in life. Or worse, she gets sorta political about it and views proving that she is just as capable as him (which isn't true in this case) as necessary for proving that women in general are equal to men. If you do marry up in this way, expect him to lead a bit more just like the more capable friend often leads (informally) more than the less capable one, etc.

Middle-Effort7495 · 2024-10-23T14:01:51+00:00

Never, ever in my life have I seen a woman shoveling snow or mowing. I've always lived in various suburbs. Statistically, men work longer hours too. And drive more.

Expecting her to cook is not 50/50 when she does 25 hours, he does 50, drives her 3 hours through traffic because she wants to try some overpriced restaurant, and shovels the snow.

Shoddy_Count8248 · 2024-10-23T14:36:13+00:00

I’ll point out that in the professional world, men aren’t expected to be leaders per se. So sure some men and/or women rise to the level of running the business but usually men are leading in some capacity AND are also followers - ie middle management.

FateMeetsLuck · 2024-10-23T15:35:00+00:00

I kinda agree except I think it's largely biological and a lot of men (and some women) are suffering because they're trying to force themselves to be something they're not. People might be happier if they just deconstruct all the indoctrination from birth and discover their true selves, which may include being submissive, or it may be something different. But it's even harder for men due to societal bullying and trying to shove everyone into an inauthentic role

Tristan103076 · 2024-10-25T13:12:58+00:00

But can't the same be said about a man who will provide. Shouldn't provision be earned just as much as submission?

Goawdsent1 · 2024-10-22T14:44:45+00:00

Sounds like the deluded blanket statements of a lonely hopeful😴

Bitter_Emu6366 · 2024-10-22T16:52:51+00:00

You gotta earn a mans masculinity

ArtifactFan65 · 2024-10-22T18:27:35+00:00

Submission is earned by being alpha that's it.

TraditionalPen2076 · 2024-10-22T13:11:06+00:00

They also shut up when told to. They also don't wear dresses that you don't want them wearing. They also completely refrain from having any male interaction outside family. They also don't go on any trips without you. They also don't go to twerk in clubs if you don't want that. You make all the final calls before hitting the "post" button on any social media

Might wanna add these parts too

fundamentally_comfy · 2024-10-22T13:59:37+00:00

Source: OPs ass

NataliaCaptions · 2024-10-22T15:05:46+00:00

If you are sufficiently attractive most women/men will naturally "submit"

HighestTierMaslow · 2024-10-22T13:25:10+00:00

[permanently deleted]

nightcall379 · 2024-10-22T19:34:39+00:00

If you want a submissive woman, you need to earn it.

Yes, because the microscopic percentage of alphas are earning female submission Lol

KGmagic52 · 2024-10-22T21:57:10+00:00

"Earning" her submission wouldn't be very dominant. Submission is not earned, it is given.

Background-List-4903 · 2024-10-22T16:27:39+00:00

If you want a submissive woman, you need to earn it

Nah it's either you are or aren't nothing else

Most of these submissive women aren’t working or paying their half.

huh?

They don’t have porn sex. They are traditional af. They do not have sex before marriage.

where you get this from?

They expect gifts

What your describing is sex work, not a relationship. It's hard to understand the difference for someone who hasn't been in a real relationship so i don't blame you.

Realistically how many modern men are able and willing to be this patriarch type? They kvetch about basic relationship niceties. They want 50/50. If you want a submissive woman who pops out your kids like no one’s business- you need to earn it and do the work.

Nah we expect normal partners, women are naturally submissive. If that's not you and your masculine that's ok.

macdaddy0800 · 2024-10-22T13:28:02+00:00

We still have to figure out if a) you aren't barren and b) not a head-fu$k

🤷

kvakerok_v2 · 2024-10-22T16:21:17+00:00

What most women don't get is this: Like with most men, if a woman has been with me for any amount of time and I have to make her submit, she will forever lose my respect, once I have.

Because that implies she has not only improperly gauged my character but also unintelligently acted on it. That exposes her as a shallow, adversarial, narrow-minded person, who is a sub-par partner material. Frankly, trash partner material.

This is EXACTLY why we don't wife such women, and being a side chick is all they'll ever amount to.

Bitter-Hat-4736 · 2024-10-22T15:54:50+00:00

No, submission is not earned it is given. Saying it is "earned" is implicitly saying that if one does all the "correct" things, they are guaranteed to gain submission.

Think of it like an education. If I do all the right things, namely studying and doing assignments, I will have earned my degree. If I have done those things, and not gotten my degree, something has gone wrong.

philseven12 · 2024-10-22T21:08:45+00:00

yeah, and if a woman wants a masculine man she better earn it. if u aint sucking and fucking, cooking and cleaning then go downstairs and deal with the intruder yourself.

whats up with these toxic and entitled women thinking a man should be a man regardless? she has to earn that side of a man. makes total sense

Altruistic_Ad_0 · 2024-10-22T13:48:54+00:00

I would make a caveat and say submissiveness is also a measure on how much someone wants you. And is not limited to traditional roles. Can you make them do anything for you? Congratulations, they are very attracted to you. The next thing to think about is whether this is sustainable behavior long term. If she can't or I can't keep up appearances and performances during the later stage of a relationship, then there needs to be a talk

Title	Submission is earned.
Author	Jesus-God-Cornbread
Upvotes	39
Comments	403
Date	October 22, 2024 12:57 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1g9hhk1/submission_is_earned/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/submission-is-earned.1533032 https://theredarchive.com/post/1533032

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