Society cannot make any given individual attracted to another individual enough to create more long lasting relationships. It’s all down to you to become attractive.

DecisionPlastic9740 · 2024-12-20T03:27:10+00:00

How is it possible to make myself taller?

Wooshie_Pop · 2024-12-19T16:48:16+00:00

“Just become attractive bro.” Society can’t even collectively define what this means. You say this as if this is some switch I can decide if I turn on or off. It’s not. You don’t just decide to become attractive one day and I cannot control others thoughts and actions.

MysterySolverDog · 2024-12-19T17:15:12+00:00

This post kind of has the same energy as people who say "Well the economy sucks now, what can we do about it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯". There's a lot of things that society can do to help with the problem, and we know this because we saw serious efforts to push for a variety of different body types in women to be seen as attractive, and then the ladder got pulled up when it came to men.

We know for a fact that it's significantly harder for men to date, find relationships, and have sex than it used to be. This is a kill shot to the biological essentialism idea of attractiveness. It's obviously false.

It's no wonder that people have silly standards, particularly towards men right now, because we're bombarded with airbrushed pictures of celebrities and highly attractive people, then have no pushback on it. We're at a strange point in society right now where it's fine to grill men for having too high standards for women, but it's taboo to do exactly the same with the genders reversed. And if you don't believe me, look at stats for how common it was for boomers to have dated in high school vs gen z.

We've basically been tricked into thinking that dating has to be shit, and absolutely nothing can be done about it, when those things are provably false.

ProfessorOilNGas · 2024-12-19T16:36:11+00:00

Life is hard for the least sexually desirable males. They are the ones who remained unable to find women in youth for a normal relationship because their desirability was (and remained) too low given the existence of less women than men, their own standards and, in some places, men marrying multiple women. (There are about 105 males born for every 100 females.)

Some numbers from the US census bureau: in 1970, non-Hispanic white people were much less likely to be in the never married category. In 1970, 6.9% of men aged 41-45 were never married, compared to 5.1% of women. This is not a very big difference, and can be entirely explained away if you believe that 2.6% of men are homosexual compared to only 1.1% for women.

In 2006, 16.7% of men aged 41-45 were never married, compared to 10.6% of women. The unmarried gap has increased from 1.8 percentage points to 6.1 percentage points. This suggests to me that most omega males born between 1925 and 1930 were able to find wives. But omega males born between 1961 and 1976 wind up never being able to find a wife. In modern times, women would rather become the second trophy wife of an older alpha male or never marry at all, than settle for an omega male like us. There is huge pack of omega males with standards they can’t match who will be lonely and womanless the first half of their lives and who will crash and burn in the second half if they don’t accept their situation and try to get something else out of life beside a relationship with a MOTOS. That’s the real ‘red pill’ folks.

The losers and the failures grow in number every year. This will eventually play out negatively. No one cares about these guys and no one ever will. It’s the largest group of people that have ever been held as so contemptable by society that they are completely ignored.

What’s needed: self-help and mentoring for the otherwise hopeless that recognizes and addresses that group of omegas who can’t or won’t do what is necessary and who need to look elsewhere, as best they can, for a fulfilling life. Like they used to say on Usenet: we’re losers, we’re failures… and we’re not going away.

Cultural-Ad-8486 · 2024-12-19T17:22:47+00:00

I completely disagree.

First: People who complain about loneliness do not dream of a "girlfriend from the government/society". This is exactly one of the reasons why incels for the most part do not accept contacts with sex workers. Such people need a real connection and love.

And second: Society can definitely "help" such lonely men and women, because beauty standards are quite changeable and also subject to social change. This does not require violence or anything super-radical, but simply ideological propaganda concerning appearance (body positivity + increasing the number of "traditionally" attractive appearance archetypes) and the restoration of social norms.

The whole problem with dating for many people now is that, in addition to appearance, the "date market" is completely unnatural and disfigured. People for the most part no longer trust each other even within the family and are extremely selfish, aggressive and unsupportive of each other. And yes, it is unnatural because we as a human species have survived and achieved so much only through mutual assistance and the creation of stable large societies.

A striking example of how much the "dating market" has been disfigured is that previously unclaimed personality traits have become relevant. For example, the typical bad guy would have been complete outcasts and real incels throughout the entire history of mankind, and even the most wretched nice guy would have felt good. This was the case for hundreds of thousands of years and right up until the beginning of the middle of the last century.

FrodoCraggins · 2024-12-19T16:13:08+00:00

Then society needs to stop lying to people that attraction isn't important. Specifically women, who often say they're attracted to one thing when they're actually attracted to the opposite.

NeutrinoParticle · 2024-12-20T13:17:56+00:00

Your point is completely correct, however there are many (especially men) that no matter how hard they try they will never be generally attractive to the opposite sex. For example, what can a man that is 5 foot 5, balding, can't grow facial hair, weak chin/jawline, ever do to improve their looks apart from major reconstructive surgery?

Responsible-Bee-3439 · 2024-12-20T23:47:06+00:00

Not so. It's really insanely easy. We knew how to do it like 50 years ago+. Women needed to get married to have any sort of good life, and that meant they could not hold out for the perfect man forever or sleep around and simply provide for themselves.

This ended up with nearly everyone getting married eventually. Now, women can be hypergamous and hyper-selective because if they don't want to get married, they don't have to.

Disastrous-Chart-928 · 2024-12-19T16:19:00+00:00

Neurotypical humans are intensely easily manipulated by their surroundings, especially in an age when media dominates every aspect of peoples lives. Moustaches were seen as gross and creepy all my life until they became popular in a couple movies/shows and now they're a massive sex symbol in guys my age now.

I swear to God I know perfectly pretty and well adjusted women that will go crazy over literally the most average guy with a moustache. Another example is the recent emphasis placed on men's height or women's weight, the standards have shifted DRAMATICALLY over recent years.

There's been plenty of psyops in place to make things attractive, hell they even push for men to join the military because women are swayed into finding it attractive, giving men the incentive to join. This has happened throughout history and led to perfectly sustainable relationships.

It's insanely naïve to pretend that society can't sway if not dictate what men and women deem attractive.

DrunkOnRamen · 2024-12-19T16:06:27+00:00

I have seen women ask their female friends about their boyfriends questions such as how tall is he, what kind of a car does he drive, what does he do for work. The standards are ever increasing due to social media and lack of understanding or appreciating the previous standards.

I can tell you that as a 6'0" man, I was once regarded as tall, I have been told that I am short.

Can't force anyone but we can also be realistic and see if the society in large is acting in a healthy and rational manner or is it becoming frothy or unhealthy.

RycerzKwarcowy · 2024-12-19T16:12:52+00:00

Society has little to do to make thinks better for us, but it has very much to do about future generation, because what is "attractive" is very much shaped by upbringing. Sadly, society continues to only make things worse and blame boogeymen as "toxic masculinity" for that.

SadAtmos · 2024-12-19T16:48:26+00:00

This can all be solved by technology through robots and artificial intelligence.

I'm partially joking.

HereToShowOff123 · 2024-12-19T22:27:33+00:00

besides give you general advice on how you can help yourself by making you more attractive.

Unless that advice includes cosmetic surgery, it's worthless. And that's where society fails, hard. The "advice" people give regarding attraction is founded on the fallacious belief that attraction is about abstractions like """personality""" instead of looks, which is what the scientific data says.

Proudvow · 2024-12-20T06:35:13+00:00

And even if there was some way of doing so, imagine being with somebody who is only with you because somehow society managed to convince them to be with you. Their attraction, at best if it's even possible to artificially boost somebody's attraction second hand, would only be barely above the threshold. Your relationship would literally be built on wafer thin foundations.

Still worked for countless people pre-women's liberation. Women were genuinely attracted to many men based on their higher status and reported higher happiness rates than modern women do. Societal changes reducing the amount of viable mates depresses life satisfaction overall.

"So you don't want women to have rights!?" Didn't say that. I'm just wondering how to restore the old happiness and attraction rates in an egalitarian society. 🤔

wtknight · 2024-12-19T18:29:30+00:00

Or a man can just lower his standards. There are plenty of men who are already somewhat attractive, but not attractive enough to the women whom they want to date or sleep with.

Clean-Luck6428 · 2024-12-19T16:20:06+00:00

Only terminally online redditors think attractive people have fewer relationship problems. They just have fewer getting dates problems

Being attractive has nothing to do with how long a relationship lasts.

If perpetually single men all of a sudden became attractive enough to date all women, there would be a huge wave of situationships and hookups until the market equalizes and all the previously unattractive men start thinking with their brain instead of their dick.

Ok-Object-2921 · 2024-12-19T17:25:00+00:00

The best approach would be for all men to set their height as 5 foot or under and the taller you are, the lower you set your height.

newzalrt883 · 2024-12-19T19:25:21+00:00

This is not actually true. There are societies in Africa where being obese is attractive as it indicates someone having been nourished. In China being light-skinned is attractive whereas in a lot of cultures being more tanned is attractive. Some cultures softer men are more attractive to women, other cultures it's more machismo. Society and culture have a lot more influence over these things than people think. I would agree that you shouldnt sit around and wait for society to change as it usually changes very slowly, but I also think if you are a relatively normal person and have very few dating options it is partially society's fault.

HOLYREGIME · 2024-12-20T00:58:24+00:00

1). Has dating market always been like this?

2). If not, how was it done before?

mashedturnip · 2024-12-19T16:38:12+00:00

The people you’re addressing don’t care if the individual is attracted to them.

They just want what they want, and will make threats and throw tantrums when they don’t get it

Jetpine9 · 2024-12-19T16:17:04+00:00

I'll fix it for you right now. Everyone can go to school anytime for anything, and it can either be free or they can work it off in some kind of work exchange. Most couples meet at work or school. You're welcome, lover. That was a radical fix that made society better while introducing potential mates to one another. It wasn't that hard to imagine was it? Compared to your dystopian fantasy of handmaid tale forced monogamy?

catdog8020 · 2024-12-19T20:42:44+00:00

Yes, men don’t have control over certain physical characteristics that are due to genetics.

However, there is nothing wrong with men and don’t let all the woman on tic toc and Reddit tell you other wise. It ain’t you trust me it ain’t. It’s the result of hoeflation and nothing more. No one should be forced in a relationship outside of their control.

The solution since dating is over for most average men in the USA is to legalize prostitution.

nnuunn · 2024-12-19T17:00:35+00:00

Society can absolutely make individuals attracted to other individuals, and this is especially true for women, who are especially susceptible to social engineering.

Society can also stop encouraging behaviors that make people less attractive, like encouraging overeating.

ilikecats18851 · 2024-12-19T18:22:13+00:00

Social darwinism for men in dating. Progressive fantasy land for women working. It all makes perfect sense you chud

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DetectiveSwimming335 · 2024-12-19T16:37:44+00:00

I completely agree about what you are saying about force being bad. But you have it backwards. It is society's fault and society can be blamed because they are the ones who are doing it. My ex committed suicide and when we first met he told me he would rather die than be forced to do things he didn't want to. He was an age regressor and he meant to be in big space, act like an adult, and have responsibilities without ever getting any relief of age regression. And that's exactly what happened. Because of people's revulsion of him being an adult man but "acting like a child" he felt forced to live and exercised his human right of bodily autonomy and made his exit. That's society's fault and not his. He's a victim

TheRedPillRipper · 2024-12-19T21:51:26+00:00

Dating is a individual thing

The primary reason dating is not an individual thing, is because it by default requires the active engagement of, and interacting within society. A prime example of this fact being passport bros. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that individual agency is the pivotal factor, it however is not independent of society.

UpstairsAd1235 · 2024-12-19T23:09:24+00:00

"Fuck society then"

^ Now, do you understand now why some men reach this conclusion?... And I have to say, you seem very naive to how society/culture influences our decisions. In fact, the entire idea of beauty standards is built on a lie. Where did you think the racial preferences come from?... I'll leave you with that.

Aggressive_Sweet1417 · 2024-12-20T01:19:52+00:00

I think this is mostly true, in the sense that as an individual your best bet is to try to improve yourself. Not only to attract a partner, but also to live a better life.

However, I want to add: that doesn't mean social issues that impact relationships can't exist. Today there's a high number of people with mental health issues, and that can impact relationships for example. I think pornography is another similar issue. And also, there's a certain climate of fear and antagonism that increases anxiety and decreases hope which also negatively impacts relationships.

At the end of the day though, you still should try to work on yourself first, but some of these issues are worth talking about.

BobtheArcher2018 · 2024-12-20T02:13:42+00:00

Society absolutely can impact who is attracted to whom etc. But there are limits. And thinking this kind of change could come on a timeline that would help you out individually is deluded.

ACE_Overlord · 2024-12-20T04:25:15+00:00

Pretty much. Invest in becoming hawt or be overlooked.

SpaceCurvature · 2024-12-21T10:07:36+00:00

So you are telling me that society can easily make quarter of male population unattractive for women in just a decade, but absolutely cannot do the reverse?

Intelligent-Insight · 2024-12-22T20:49:36+00:00

Attraction is relative and the society can indeed help you. It can create the environment where people are strongly encouraged to pair up. In that environment you can be more attractive than alternatives (staying single or holding out for a top man).

feliks22277 · 2024-12-24T01:17:10+00:00

Hm I somewhat agree, but not completely. I think there are some things to gradually change the society by not doing stupid things. For example if you are a woman, don’t make videos talking about how Ryan Gosling is average and then say that you have low standards for men. If you are a man, stop complaining about women in video games not looking like models. And also stop watching porn, please.

This won’t magically make people be attracted to everyone, but might lessen the most extreme negative aspects of modern dating.

NoDanaOnlyZuuI · 2024-12-19T16:06:30+00:00

Agree with you 100%. Super curious about how this comment thread is going to go 🍿🍿🍿

Throw_r_a_2021 · 2024-12-19T17:45:09+00:00

I disagree. There are many things that could change in our society that would make the prospect of being in a relationship more attractive. For instance, if your only realistic path to achieving economic security was through marriage, you’d probably put a lot more care and attention into securing a marriage. After all, a mediocre marriage is a lot more appealing to most people than destitute poverty.

I guess I would agree that physical attraction can’t really be negotiated. In general I’ve always believed that people have very limited control over what they find attractive.

abaxeron · 2024-12-20T09:04:44+00:00

A hypothetical situation.

Men stop subsidizing women's retirement benefits, going from (current) $160billion+ annually, to zero.

Men use this freshly released time to attend gyms and manage their diet instead of working 50+ hours a week, especially when married.

Would it help men become more attractive? - Yes.

So... society CAN do things. "It's not rocket surgery".

Klutzy_Charge9130 · 2024-12-19T18:10:53+00:00

I agree. Yet, I see it very often. One side or the other that says “x” is unrealistic. It’s wrong to want “Y”

Which is it yall? Is there a set of rules for what you’re allowed to be attracted to? Or should everyone be obligated to give broke ugly losers some play every once in a while?

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-12-19T17:38:28+00:00

Society cannot make any given individual attracted to another individual enough to create more long lasting relationships.

It totally can force people into relationships and punish them for quitting. Attraction doesn't matter in that case.

GreatestGoldenGirl · 2024-12-19T23:59:09+00:00

Being attractive isn't just about looks. Your personality matters a lot too. For some people.

Couples deserve to be attracted to one another and I agree you can't force what's not there.

giveuporfindaway · 2024-12-20T00:45:01+00:00

Attraction isn't required. Settling is. Every society in history accepted settling as the foundation of relationships. It's only in our society that the value system is individual atomic hedonism. This is a value system that by definition can only last one generation. Selfish people don't reproduce.

The state can compel people to settle into monogamous arrangement. The dating market should be viewed as crony capitalism. It doesn't reflect real winners and losers. Rather it reflects people winning and losing based on privileged loopholes and historically anomalous circumstances that are destined to expire.

Title	Society cannot make any given individual attracted to another individual enough to create more long lasting relationships. It’s all down to you to become attractive.
Author	Cjaylyle
Upvotes	42
Comments	552
Date	December 19, 2024 4:01 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1hhw3du/society_cannot_make_any_given_individual/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/society-cannot-make-any-given-individual-attracted.1538963 https://theredarchive.com/post/1538963

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