The single mom contradiction

cloudydays84 · 2020-07-09T21:29:11+00:00

I don't agree with the idea morally speaking that you should just up and leave your kid but I can say wholeheartedly

,even though the best way to tackle this "single moms" problem would be to force men to raise their own kids.

This is not the best way to tackle the problem at all.

I grew up in a single parent home (mom) but not by choice my father died, but up until that point he was a pretty great and active father.

Growing up in the community I saw a lot of diversity in terms of parenting styles and family units, single moms, single dads, gay/lesbian couples, extended family living styles (grandparents or even other family members living together).

However, there were definitely homes where you could tell one parent or both did not want their kids and didn't want to raise them.

As cliche as it may sound, kids can pick up when they are unwanted and unloved. Kids that have parents walk out on them are definitely gonna feel that sting, but the kids that I saw that had to deal with the constant feeling that one or neither of the people they saw everyday didn't want them was harder to swallow and recover from then a parent just leaving.

Karmanger · 2020-07-09T23:38:02+00:00

Because its a power imbalance. If a female gets pregnant and wants to keep it that’s her choice.

If she wants to not keep it that’s also her choice.

If a man wants to raise a kid and the female doesn’t he has no say.

If there’s a hole in the condom and the female gets pregnant and the man doesn’t want a kid he has no say.

If a man get sperm jacked like NBA players do.... he has no recourse.

If a female wants alimony and child support she can keep the kid and live a work free life depending on how rich the man was.

A man has no recourse for this.

In my case my ex of 5 years Got pregnant And tried to claim it was mine.

I had no recourse but to wait for the blood test. I didn’t wanna raise a kid with her I didn’t even consent to having a kid with her.

She was the devious type like poke a hole in the condom devious.

General idea is that if a man can financially abort then it dissuade women from doing things like that. It would force women to be more picky about sex because cash and prizes are not guaranteed, when a man can financially abort it Equalizes the field

00Starved00 · 2020-07-10T11:32:30+00:00

Here is the thing... men don’t care. Men will threaten, throw temper tantrums, cry and stealth just so they they don’t have to wear a condom. Then once their luck runs out and they finally get someone knocked up they want to get to decide you should do with your body. “Keep it because I want, get rid of it because I want” they are really fucking toddlers. Btw getting an abortion isn’t that easy, you should all try walking the fucking gauntlet through protesters and then feel like you are dying for three days. Most men don’t even have the decency to support their partner through an abortion.

staypositivebrad · 2020-07-09T23:36:36+00:00

and at the same time I see a lot men advocating for Financial abortion,even though the best way to tackle this "single moms" problem would be to force men to raise their own kids.

A lot of those men probably would've preferred actual abortion but had no control over the situation at all.

Mrs_Drgree · 2020-07-09T21:13:21+00:00

Because women are able to abort and they are not.

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-07-09T21:53:28+00:00

Firstly, I don't think that a lot of these men are in the same camp. Some men don't really have anything against single mothers, but men who would be fathers to their own children want equal rights as women who can choose to abort at any time and for any reason. If women should get a choice to disown their children and avoid parenthood, so should men.

Second, single mothers often are looking for an assistant parent who can help them raise and care for their children, not necessarily a boyfriend or husband, so most guys that take on that responsibility are just along for the ride in this woman's life, not really an equal partner. Men don't often want to incur the cost of someone else's benefit which is what happens when one man fathers children and another raises them.

I personally have no issues with single mothers as long as I would be an equal partner and not an assistant parent, but I think that men should be given an option to "abort" if women are given the same. Women can shout about "bodily autonomy" all they want, but nothing about "bodily autonomy" says that other people have to provide you with a means to abort. You're free to do it yourself because it's your body, and nobody else is under any obligation to help you. Hence most forms of abortion fall under "goods and services," not "human rights."

GullibleClassic1 · 2020-07-09T21:12:03+00:00

My guess is because a lot of them think women make a conscious decision to become single mothers because of ‘welfare’ and by removing financial benefits provided to single mothers, which includes child support, less women would become single mothers.

In reality, the problem is much deeper then that and generation dysfunction plays the biggest role.

CentralAdmin · 2020-07-09T23:38:16+00:00

I see a lot of men complain about single moms saying that they are a problem to society

They are a problem. They raise kids in poverty. These kids are far more likely to be abused. They are more likely to become criminals as well.

and at the same time I see a lot men advocating for Financial abortion,even though the best way to tackle this "single moms" problem would be to force men to raise their own kids.

These are two separate issues joined at the hip by one key point: single mothers CHOOSE to become single mothers while the fathers have little to zero choice by comparison.

For a woman to become a single mom, she had to have had unprotected sex with a man (at least once but usually several times or with several men).

This means she didn't make use of several layers of protection she had to avoid it. She could have abstained, used one of many birth control options, only slept with men who used condoms, give the kid up for adoption under safe haven laws or even have an abortion. There are many ways she can avoid becoming a single mom. It makes her life harder and becomes a drain on the system.

For him to become a dad, he just has to cum inside a woman without protection. If consent to sex is not consent to parenting for her, there's a massive double standard here already. Would we tolerate men making women moms against their will? We seem to not care how men become parents just that they must take responsibility. But we care how women become parents and are okay with offering them choices and ways out.

Often advocates for 'the best interests of the child' forget the man is a human with fewer rights here and his best interests are ignored. They also somehow forget that mom didn't have the best interests of the child when she chose to have uncommitted, unprotected sex, yet would still raise the child in poverty.

Men are also disproportionately tossed in jail for failing to pay child support compared to when women are the ones supposed to pay. And very often these men are poor and cannot afford to pay.

There are also very serious cases where women have raped men and boys then won child support cases, showcasing the inequality of the law and how vulnerable men are:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/sg/blog/talking-about-trauma/201902/when-male-rape-victims-are-accountable-child-support

When Shane Seyer was 12, he was sexually exploited by his 16-year-old babysitter Colleen Hermesmann. She became pregnant with Seyer’s child in 1989 and was charged with statutory rape shortly afterward. Instead of being convicted of rape, Hermesmann was declared a juvenile offender under the non-sexual offense of “contributing to child misconduct.” Seyer was subsequently court-ordered to pay child support.

in 2014, Nick Olivas of Arizona was forced to pay over $15,000 in back-payments to a woman who had sex with him when he was 14. She was 20 years old at the time.

In 1996, the court heard the case of County of San Luis Obispo v. Nathaniel J in which a 34-year-old woman became pregnant after sexually exploiting a 15-year-old boy. He was also forced to pay child support

These were children who were exploited and raped. What about their 'best interests'? If these boys had a choice they wouldn't then have been forced to pay for the consequences of being raped. Try to imagine a 12 year old girl being raped and then being forced to raise the kid or pay dad court-ordered child support.

This could have been avoided had their simply been an option for boys and men to give up their parental rights. We're being inhumane in our approach.

dorksideofnever · 2020-07-10T04:19:42+00:00

I see so your solution is to force people? You don't see the issue there?

Financial abortion is about equality. Why should only one party get to make a choice about getting to be a parent? That's not fair to men. It takes 2 to tango, women can not naturally fertilize and egg by themselves. I think we can agree on the science there. (it is possible to fertilize an egg with another egg. However it is expensive and I don't remember enough about it to go into detail. Sorry about that)

Now I said it's not fair to men. If a woman get pregnant and decides to keep the baby the man has financial responsibility. Even if he does not want the child.

Now let's flip the roles here. Let's say the man wants the child and the woman does not. She can get an abortion and he has to deal with it.

That's not equal, that's one sided. Like I said it takes 2 to tango.

My question then becomes How do you address the issue so that both sides feel equal?

If a woman can give up responsibility for a child why shouldn't a man be able to do the same?

As for dating single moms. Not everyone has a big enough heart to take in a child. I think that's a shame. To the men that are out there that can do it, I'm proud of you (might not mean much from a redditor, but I am still proud of you).

crookedsummer2019 · 2020-07-09T23:14:35+00:00

Going to play devils advocate here: I think if he didn’t want to be a father and ended up on the hook for it due to any deception or failed birth control then he should have an opt out clause if she decides to have the child.

However if he decided to raw dog regardless of whatever birth control she was on or they were not trying to avoid a pregnancy or were trying to get pregnant then he has no right to avoid any responsibility.

As for men who like to trash talk single moms like they are one entity, my theory on that is said men tried to date said single moms thinking they their standards would be so low that they would be easy hits. When said single moms rejected them and blew their egos out of the water, bitterness developed.

cast-away-ramadi06 · 2020-07-09T21:33:09+00:00

They see single mothers as low value and they want to be able to avoid any commitment to women they perceive as too low value to commit time and resources to.

Edit: clarification edits.

Edit2: Which just goes back to the need for women to vet men well. I think r/RPW has it right here.

insertcredit2 · 2020-07-10T04:55:30+00:00

This is where this argument inevitably ends.

Is it totally fucked up that women can opt for abortions or simply give their kid up for adoption while the man has zero say and can't legally abandon their kid?

Yes it's a total mess.

So we should we make the tax payer pay for kids who have a known father resulting in a huge tax hike or massive cut to public services?

Fuck no! I'm not paying for that guys kids.

So do we equalise the law and fuck the tax payer or keep screwing over men who got trapped?

REEEEE

mydikishomofobik · 2020-07-10T11:51:57+00:00

The men calling for financial abortions are probably bitter baby fathers. I don't have sympathy for those clowns. Men who choose to cum in certain women's pussies raw and then bitch about having kids with them are as idiotic as women who choose to fuck certain men and then bitch about having kids with them. My opinion is, you had the fun of fucking the pussy, so you pay for that shit. Pay for your own orgasms, fools.

LittyKitsune · 2020-07-09T21:43:05+00:00

Many have a theory that current society (including the lack of a financial abortion option) enables single motherhood and if the financial incentives go away then single motherhood would as well.

As someone whose parents recently tried to get my 30-year-old sister to change her behavior by cutting her off financially (didn't work) I'm not so sure about that plan.

wowthrway · 2020-07-09T22:08:54+00:00

Because forcing a man to commit resources to a child he doesn't want is the equivalent of forcing a woman to carry a child she doesn't want.

If you have kids with a dude that doesn't want kids, then you done fked up. But I don't think its right to force someone to do anything they don't want to, if they aren't obliged to. If you force that guy into his child's life, it could do more harm than good.

Single mothers should just choose their baby daddys better, this would literally avoid MANY issues.

VoiceOfTheMillenium · 2020-07-09T23:35:09+00:00

Financial abortion is a retarded concept, though. That being said:

even though the best way to tackle this "single moms" problem would be to force men to raise their own kids.

The best way to tackle this single moms problem would engaging in oral sex. But one part of tards doesn't want this/use a condom and the other part of tards thinks that a kid is a good fucking hook on for her male partner.

2020-07-10T00:44:47+00:00

out of the 18 years that I was a single mom I was only on welfare for 17 months - during my 4 year old son's 19 rounds of chemo and during the period of quarantine afterwards. they few men i dated during that time always expected/demanded that I put their needs and wants above my children's so I quit dating.

spacechicken1990 · 2020-07-10T01:00:09+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Sea-Buffalo · 2020-07-09T21:36:10+00:00

If a woman knew she couldn’t get child support or any government money how many do you think would become single moms?

The reason men are upset is because women use this as a form of entrapment and control.

A woman has all the choices and power in the situation and a man has none. She can chose to abort or not and he has no say. However if she decides to keep it she can make him pay for it and he doesn’t have a choice.

Add to the inequality she also is most likely to get full or the majority of custody.

The best way to tackle the issue is make a man liable only if he agrees to have kids with her. If he says great let’s have a kid them a year later says hell with this i am leaving, then he need to pay and own up to it.

But you have so many woman who try and baby trap a man by getting pregnant thinking it will make him “step up” and commit to her.

So if a woman and a man have sex and she gets pregnant but he didn’t agree to have a kid with her he should not have to pay.

And any man who dates a single mom is a idiot or a glutton for punishment. He has zero rights and he will never be her priority.

This would stop the problem in its tracks.

Dora_Bowl · 2020-07-09T21:29:11+00:00

Is this really a contradiction?

xFallacyx69 · 2020-07-09T22:28:54+00:00

Legally you’re now on the hook for her kid if you marry her I think. Some women genuinely want love, some just want a second wallet... it’s like the female version of “I can wait years to pump and dump you” sometimes lol... that’s what’s going through our heads.

jayval90 · 2020-07-09T23:41:18+00:00

The question is posed as an "either-or" hypothetical proposition, not as a serious proposal for policy. It's meant to counter the narrative that women don't have any advantages when it comes to parenting.

A sensible proposal is where people shut the f*** up, solve their differences, and get with the family program.

LotBuilder · 2020-07-10T01:24:03+00:00

Maybe we expect women to provide for the kids they choose to keep. If they can choose to abort without a mans permission then the man should decide if he wants to financially support a child. Seems fair.

There are plenty of successful single moms out there and nobody says a word about them because they handle their own business.

Lunatic_Jiggles · 2020-07-10T01:36:13+00:00

I had to fight to get my half of joint custody. I know other males that were in the same boat or even lost the battle. The problem with the latter is multifaceted, but imagine having to pay all this child support for a child you are rarely allowed to see. The worst part is there’s not necessarily a good reason for the outcome... it’s just standard to do this some places.

As far as guys just being dead beats that pretend they don’t have a kid, that’s just trashy behavior. There’s no excuse, but I don’t think the majority of men fall in this category. The ones that do aren’t worth considering why they think like they do.

2020-07-10T02:03:38+00:00

also advocate for men's right to abandon their kids (Financial abortion) ?

it isn't abandonment if she could get an abortion but she chooses to keep the fetus anyway.

that dating a single mom is wrong because it makes you a cuck

nothing wrong with it, just probably not worth the hassle

and at the same time I see a lot men advocating for Financial abortion

you just explained why it isn't a contradiction

even though the best way to tackle this "single moms" problem would be to force men to raise their own kids.

no, the best way would be to 1) make sex education comprehensive and based on science, 2) make contraception cheap and widely available, 3) same for family planning and abortion services, 4) end sex discrimination in family court (so that kids can't be used to divorce rape a man).

akihonj · 2020-07-10T06:24:38+00:00

Ok so your confusing two issues here, a financial abortion relates to when a woman has made a decision to have a child without the agreement of the father. For example she stops birth control or doctors a condom.

The other issue being that she has a child from a failed relationship. She is most likely to say that she doesn't want the man to be a father for that child.

The second one is a blatant lie, because she is going to expect at some point if the relationship is far enough that the man will take responsibility for the child both emotionally and financially.

This is an argument I often hear, however its disengenuos to say the least. If a couple start living together and there are no children and their total bills are about 1000 per month, they both say pay 500 per month. When you throw a child into the mix as a single parent her bills escalate because of the child to say 750 per month.

So when she starts living with a man she comes forward that her bills are 750 per month, his still only 500, so either he can pay more so she pays less, or he pays the same for his bills and then he's paying more for them to do things as a couple because she now doesn't have the money, due to paying the extra for a child.

This is basic maths and shouldn't be debated and I struggle to understand why women cannot grasp this.

Then there is the emotional responsibility that man is going to be expected to perform. Remember she doesn't want a father for the child, however she will expect that he spend time with the child, teach the child and protect the child accept some form of adult responsibility for the child and supervise the child..

In other words the contradictory statement, I don't need a father for my child but we are a package deal applies.

Then let's take a single mother herself, the fact that she's got a child with somebody, shows that her ability to make a good choice is shot, she chose a scumbag or chose to have a child where the father wasn't on board.

She didn't vet well enough then, well as a man then why am I expected to pick up after her, isn't she as able as me, isn't she as strong and independent as me.

Why am I expected to alleviate her financial burden with my own resources, why am I expected to alleviate her emotional labour with my own, the child is at the end of the day her choice, she alone can chose to have the child or not, why am I expected to step up when she can't herself. Why am I expected to accept a duty I don't want simply because she expects me to.

Magicus1 · 2020-07-10T07:01:53+00:00

Basically, everyone here has covered it.

It’s also great because it removes the safety net from women.

Successful Men nowadays are worried sick about #MeToo, spousal abandonment, being cucked, being raped in divorce court, having his kids taken away, false rape accusations, & now on top of it all, a woman can impregnate herself by him and siphon his resources indefinitely, stay ”single” (i.e. unmarried) but still claim state & Federal benefits reserved for lower income women who genuinely have no discourse.

In other words, she can sleep with a guy but still get government assistance since she’s single.

Women now marry “the system”, offset their income limitations with an alternate income stream known as a baby daddy, & maybe some part time work, cam girl work, or otherwise get a free ride through life.

If suddenly women had to be on the hook for getting pregnant, then they might think twice about sleeping with that sexy, unemployed musician or sleeping with that pothead with only a ‘95 Civic and a pizza box in his fridge.

If the man could walk away consequence-free, then suddenly mom is on the hook 100% for being a single mom.

Those “losers” might not look so attractive anymore and might even force her to go after someone who will genuinely stick around and help her raise children.

The advent of modern day feminism, family court, & contraceptives has changed the playing field.

However, this field is completely biased towards the victimization of women.

While there are cases like this, no doubt, by and large a large number of them are pretty poor choices by women.

They knew, ** either consciously or subconsciously**, that the consequences for getting knocked up by a broke guy aren’t as bad.

Note: This says nothing about the tax burden removed from the shoulders of average, hard-working Americans that could be used to fund more important projects such as infrastructure, National Parks, & Public Education.

TL;DR:

Basically, removing this financial safety net forces women to think about the men they sleep with and be more selective as well as ensure they use protection when engaging in sexual activity.

Plus, it’ll save on taxes for everyone.

nemma88 · 2020-07-10T09:52:52+00:00

Because they hamster out of their personal responsibility because women have access to abortions so its all their fault.

softhandsam · 2020-07-09T22:36:26+00:00

So you think the solution to women's shitty selections is to force men to make up for it?

Substantial_Wasabi · 2020-07-09T21:34:18+00:00

Cognitive dissonance perhaps? Financial abortions will never be a thing though so i don't take them seriously, they're just miserable undesirables.

flamingoinghome · 2020-07-10T01:17:46+00:00

Frankly, I think the whole thing stems from a weird FOMO/envy. These guys see a single mom, and assume that the kid's dad was some kind of dazzling Cassanova, with illegitimate kids everywhere like Peter the Great, and this woman was just So Super Into Him that she HAD to have his baby, whatever the cost....when far more likely is that two fairly ordinary people fucked, got pregnant, and tried to make the relationship work/didn't believe in abortion/wanted to be a family, but weren't suited to each other.

They only ponder this scenario when they think about the women that they, themselves, are interested in, and how they want to bang these women and all, but certainly aren't wedded to the thought of 18 years together as a couple and co-parents.

The worst part is how the kid is just considered a hapless prop in this, instead of a human being who's done nothing wrong here.

retal1ator · 2020-07-10T04:45:49+00:00

If men could financially abort a child, especially if before birth, most single mothers would not exists.

I would say the vast majority of single mothers are women who ignored their partners wishes because they knew they had their back covered by welfare, and then ended up single because either drove the man away or the man got fed up raising a kid he had little involvement when it came to the question "should we keep it or not?".

Remove the welfare state and give men the ability to financial abort, and you'll have virtually no single moherhood.

the best way to tackle this "single moms" problem would be to force men to raise their own kids.

You should never force anyone to be a parent. Eventually they're gonna fail.

This is exactly why you have single mothers, you wanna impose men to be fathers to "opsie" babies while giving total freedom to mothers to abort.

If you can't understand this power imbalance there's no hope for equality between sexes.

FeniZio94 · 2020-07-10T03:19:21+00:00

Who told single moms to receive a load inside of them from dudes that are clearly not a suitable father figure ?

Just to then demand suitable father figures to take care of someone else’s kid ?

DXBrigade · 2020-07-09T21:42:23+00:00

We want women to become responsible human beings for once in entire history of humanity

astrobrah · 2020-07-10T01:23:35+00:00

"Financial abortion"

My eyes rolled so hard they're now orbiting around saturn

DevilishRogue · 2020-07-10T10:18:29+00:00

the best way to tackle this "single moms" problem would be to force men to raise their own kids.

The best way to tackle the problem would be not to subsidise single motherhood so you get more single moms. You can't solve the problem by attempting to make unwilling men commit, you can only solve the problem by making women opt for guys who are willing to commit because the consequences for not doing so are too negative to make it a viable choice.

emeral132 · 2020-07-10T10:25:47+00:00

My view is that parents who leave would have caused their children just as many, if not more issues if they had stayed.

My father was absent for most of my childhood. He had a drinking problem and treated my mum terribly. When she divorced him he had very little to do with me and my sisters. Within a few years my mum had re-trained and was earning more money. She no longer had the stress of having this awful man in her life bringing her down. I didn’t have to listen to them arguing as I was trying to sleep. My one good parent (my mother) was able to offer a better childhood to my and my sisters without him even though it meant she had to work long hours and we lived in a much smaller house etc.

If a woman deliberately tricks a man into getting her pregnant by lying about contraception and he decides to leave because he had no say in the decision and perhaps he doesn’t feel that he is able to add anything to the child’s life and will probably cause more harm than good is he a bad person? Perhaps not. Nobody would have a lot of respect for a man like this. Sometimes as an adult you just have to suck it up and face your responsibilities. But this is more an understandable reason for leaving in my eyes. Surely there can’t actually be many women that do this can there? Would the signs not be there beforehand? Extreme neediness? Poor morals?

If I was a guy I would be having the contraception conversation with every girlfriend and ensuring that they were definitely taking the pill or had the implant etc. and I wouldn’t dream of not using a condom during casual sex. If you’re that worried, protect yourself. If you really never want kids get sterilised surely??

BioStu · 2020-07-09T23:04:56+00:00

Why can’t women just make better choices in regards to who they let ejaculate inside of them?

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appleshawk · 2020-07-09T23:27:36+00:00

The best way to tackle this "single mom" problem is to make sure you're on birth control or just not have sex before marriage. I really think it's as simple as that because there's no way you can force men to raise their own kids as other commenters on here have explained well.

InfidelCastro11 · 2020-07-10T01:41:28+00:00

Family courts can put you on the hook for a single mother's kid if you date them. Not worth it

Harsh_Lessons · 2020-07-10T01:45:36+00:00

Why do you think they’re the same people? I think single moms and absent fathers are a problem, and I don’t think men should be allowed to abandon their children. I think such men should be shamed for their dishonor.

Sea-Buffalo · 2020-07-10T01:56:07+00:00

I’ll throw this one on here also. A perfect example is why women don’t like it a man could take the pill and take the power and control from her.

“If all women had to wait for men to feel broody (and for this to coincide with his jab wearing off), the birth rate would drop like a stone”.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1251868/Of-course-women-dont-want-male-pill--end-happy-little-accidents.html

_innominate_ · 2020-07-10T02:52:25+00:00

I've dated plenty of single moms, kids loved me.

I'm not seeing the issue here. 🤔

rhyth7 · 2020-07-10T02:56:10+00:00

Men have the choice to control their cum. There is no way a woman can get pregnant without cum. Protect yourselves dudes. Wearing condoms and pulling out is your best defense.

Big_Dick_Capitalist · 2020-07-10T04:47:40+00:00

Paper abortion is about protection fathers from the monetary incentive women have when pregnant. Men has no protection in this regard, women have multiple protections.

Forcing fathers to stay in dysfunctional relationships hardly makes it better for the children. Anyways, most divorces are filled by women anyhow, so your argument is on thin ice.

Why is economical punishment the best way to keep fathers from leaving?

2LitreBugattiBieber · 2020-07-10T05:51:26+00:00

I think it’s more like this:

men say that children under single mums show more negative behaviours

Which is true I guess

men complain that some single mums take advantage of their child support and don’t let the dad see their kids

More of a personality issue than a “single mum” issue.

single mums are bad for society

Yes, not the fact that the mum is single, but the fact that there isn’t a strong male role model around

Given all of this to make a better society for everybody we must remember to treat our fathers better, take care of our mothers better so we can create a good environment for our children, thus creating an ideal society.

I believe the issue your having (or whoever you’re speaking to about this) is they’re blaming the mother when we need to blame and fix the situation not the individual.

AlissonHarlan · 2020-07-10T06:22:32+00:00

I hope it's not the same people that are against condoms or abortion...

That said it's not a contradiction if they think single mom shouldn't ' happens'.

But when it 'happens' I would they can explain us what choice they wanted the women to do. Give up for adoption? (supposing that the father leave before the delivery) Work 3 jobs to pay daycare? What about the husband who leave when having 3 children already?

Being homeless with their child?

RottingAway90 · 2020-07-10T06:31:46+00:00

My partner left me for a single mom so who knows

DaphneDK42 · 2020-07-10T06:46:44+00:00

You can't force men to raise their own kids. All you can do is force them to pay. To get men to be involved in their kids life, you need cultural emphasis on things like traditional family, probably religion. Its just not a single thing, it comes with a whole package.

Cobra_x30 · 2020-07-10T06:53:29+00:00

First question.... Why are there bloody many single moms? I mean they are swamping our social safety net and destroying the system. We are at a point where we could actually ensure no child in the country grows up in poverty if we forced every single mom to get a working husband within 1 year. He doesn't even have to make above minimum wage!

Now, the financial abortion is entirely before the birth of the baby. This gives women the chance to kill the child if the man doesn't pay.

Other forms of child support... most guys hate it because they want to co-parent, and don't feel that women spend the money on the child. I think most do, but we all know that woman whose kids are in rags but wears Gucci everything herself.

dude8899 · 2020-07-10T13:27:22+00:00

Not a person of opposing viewpoint, so this is based on extrapolating my own view.

They are two separate issues. Let's look at the "welfare bomb" that is building. Currently, our population is growing faster than on economy. Thus, poverty is increasing as people cannot find jobs and wages are low (high supply of possible workers.) The government then decides to mandate that everyone chip in a portion of their income to help others that are less fortunate. If the trend continues, you need more and more taxes to keep up with growing numbers.

The best solution is population control. However, there isn't a morally good way to do it. I believe the best answer is to limit the amount of welfare one can claim. After that, they are left to their own devices. Either they can take care is themselves, or die of starvation (survival of the fittest) including letting their children die.

Look at nature. There is a term called "population cap" that basically says a finite amount of resources can only support a finite amount of life. We, as humans, aren't forced to give a portion of our income to care for the wildlife. What makes human life so much more special?

Sure, people can still willing donate and this would come with a host of problems such as increased crime rate as people get desperate, but in principle it would be the best outcome in the long run.

Next, looking at financial abortion. If one person of the pregnancy decides they don't want or can't afford the burden (financial or otherwise) but the other person wants to continue with the pregnancy, why should the person who wants to proceed with the pregnancy get the ultimate say? The understanding should be that if only one person wants to continue with the pregnancy, they will do so solely on their own. (This does rely on the availability of safe abortion.)

Putting the two together: We (as a society) treat human life as some special thing. People are also too reliant on financial assistance from the government. If people knew that their access to assistance would be limited to a maximum amount and then they would be left to themselves, they would think harder about continuing with the pregnancy. Abortions help us as a whole, whether you view them as murder or not. Again, it may not be morally right, but it is the best solution in my opinion. The longer we wait to address the problem, the worse this solution will become.

muddynips · 2020-07-10T13:35:02+00:00

All men want is the same thing women want. The ability to plan and proactively be a part of the creation of their family. Women are entitled to their bodies, and me are entitled to theirs. This includes freedom from bad actors.

If, instead of perpetuating a nanny state that sympathizes with and rewards selfish behavior, we were to make it so that each person is able to get what they want without stealing from the other; everyone would be better off.

The truly determined women would still have their children. If anything they are more able than ever to preselect the best donor for their child. Just order up 10cc of John Hamm jizzum and you’re done.
The bloodsucking harpies would lose their primary motivation. If all they wanted was the money, or even if it was some combination of the money and the baby; they have to immediately stop and rethink things. “Do I want a baby so badly that the father doesn’t matter?” Sometimes it’s the simple questions that people forget to ask themselves. If the money WAS a huge motivator, removing it from the equation from the beginning is in the best interests of the child.
Families with both parents involved would be formed with a stronger foundation of shared goals. Starting things off with an affirmation is important. Men are not monsters, we just want to OPTION to opt in. I suspect it would be similar to the “pay what you want” parking meter experiment. If you remove the compulsory elements, you’d find men disproportionately willing to raise the child.
Both men and women are able to achieve fulfilling sex lives without disproportionate risk. Self-explanatory.

Just because single motherhood is not a desirable option for me doesn’t mean that forced fatherhood is a better alternative. Families start as covenants or they don’t. Linking men’s finances to paternity is an archaic workaround to a societal problem.

Edit: I can tell you another thing, reading the batshit crazy arguments for male servitude has reconfirmed my perspective. Watch out for the harpies men, they’re everywhere and they go by thot.

2020-07-10T19:38:33+00:00

They're really not connected. The right to legal paternal surrender is a legal right that men should have the same as women. Men and women need to have the same rights or lack of rights, but privileging one over the other is basically system sexism like any other issue where one section of society is being oppressed because of their gender.

Men would have less right to complain about single moms if legal paternity surrender were legal because support for the child would be paid for to the mom by the state through benefits, tax credits, subsidies for child care etc....

Workaholiconew · 2020-07-10T20:04:22+00:00

Simply put?

Because single moms are a problem as they create all sorts of costs and risks.
A parent who can terminate a tie to a baby unilaterally, begs that the other should also have the same right.

Both are problems. It is like saying that "too much unemployment creates costs/risk" and that "if a employeer can fire a employee at any time, a employee can fire himself at any time" are contradictory statements. They aren't.

There is no contradiction here. These women chose to have a baby, even if she could abort it, it is their own choice. None else should be forced to pay for it. Fathers included (to the limits of abortion).

jackandjill22 · 2020-07-11T07:23:39+00:00

Lord

Sea-Buffalo · 2020-07-11T09:12:41+00:00

I don’t have kids and thanks to the snip snip I won’t ever have them.

My biggest issue with single moms is they have a major entitlement attitude and expect a man to bend his life around hers because she has kids and he doesn’t.

As a guy dating a single mom she will never ever make you a priority in her life at least not a top priority.

I hear some many push the “my kids come first attitude” and that’s BS. They use that as a excuse to keep the man on the back burner and manipulate him.

Anytime I dated a single mom I told her that if you really want me in your life you will make time and make me a priority.

But they all clearly show they don’t when they make time for a girls night or anything else non kids but don’t have time for you.

Single moms want to date a man for resources and for those lonely times.

darksoldierk · 2020-07-11T13:37:15+00:00

Men aren't advocating for men's rights to abandon their kids. Men fight for the right for men to choose parenthood at the same period of time that women can choose parenthood. There's a difference.

The difference is, if I choose to financially abort, I'm not abandoning a child any more than if a woman chooses to physically abort her child is choosing to abandon hers. If I'm choosing to paper abort a child, I"m not abandoning any more than me choosing to not support a child starving to death in africa. Biology doesn't define fatherhood, and our society firmly understand and believes that, even women do when it's advantageous to them. Think about paternity fraud, where society forces the man to continue to carry out his fatherly responsibilities after finding out the child is not biologically related to him. Our society recognizes that fatherhood is not about biology, it's about how much influence a man has over a child's life. If I choose to not have any influence then I am choosing to not be a father, you can't abandon your child UNTIL you become a parent, if you were never a parent, then you never abandoned them.

The best way to tackle this "single mom" problem is to teach women responsibility for their choices, to stop giving them a free ride and a safety net. Free rides and safety nets don't exist for men, men are expected to take responsibility for their choices, and even, take responsibilities for choices that they didn't get to make (ie. to not abort the child, a choice that women make). It's time we took the training wheels off for women.

You choose to not abort, then the child is fully your responsibility. IT's your job to financially support it, to raise it, to take care of it. YOU chose it, no one else.

The best way to encourage men to raise their own children is to give them the choice to abort. Those who chose to not abort have no excuse to not raise their children. The best way to encourage men to raise their own children is to remove bias in divorce court, to make sure that men can obtain physical custody of their children as easily as women can. The best way to encourage men to raise their own children is to ensure equality in family court, in benefits provided for men and women, in giving men the right to know if the child is biologically, and giving them a choice to cease their duties as fathers when they are victims of fraud, in the choice to become parents, it's to ensure equality exists. We currently live in a world where men don't get to choose parenthood, they are assigned parenthood, either by the mother, who's the only one that can choose to abort or not, or by the court, who forces responsibilities on the man even when the man is a victim of paternity fraud. Men don't choose fatherhood in the modern world, they are assigned.

So why is it a surprise to you that the average man wouldn't touch a single mom with a 6 foot pole? That single mom has shown that she is incapable of making a relationship work with the father of her child, and knowing the disadvantages of men in families in the modern world, why would a man get together with a woman who has proven that he will probably experience the disadvantages by choosing to be with her?

chris74angryfan · 2020-07-11T13:57:26+00:00

Because men have no right to decide if thy want a kid or not

Truth_Dry · 2020-07-11T18:51:40+00:00

u/DXBrigade (OP), being anti-single-parent (i.e., pro-two-parent) and pro-financial-abortion align incentives in the same direction: fewer unwanted children.

-Radical_Edward · 2020-07-12T03:02:10+00:00

Because single moms can't raise kids for shit. How can a man raise a kids when to mother threw him out.

VargaLaughed · 2020-07-14T21:21:28+00:00

For the same reason people argue for the right to free speech for people who are against free speech. As a consequence of having the right to do good for living things, it’s properly within your rights to do some bad for living things. And violating rights on behalf of the latter ends up worse for both the latter, overall, and the former. The War on Drugs, Prohibition, completely banning abortion etc. There are so many problems with forcing a man to be a father. Women can trap men creating more bad mothers. Men are forced into not having a choice over their lives creating more bad fathers. Women might become less selective creating more bad mothers.

Sultmaker_9000 · 2020-07-09T22:04:05+00:00

Cos its a womans responsibility.

therealMericGetler · 2020-07-10T01:23:07+00:00

So, to add to the 350 opinions here:
It's about choice. Rn women have the choice of to keep the sperm donor or not.
If she won't marry you, why should you pay the kid.
It's about making the best of a bad situation.

Gabo9718 · 2020-07-10T03:07:07+00:00

Are you proposing to split Chad and Tyrone in 100 pieces each, so they can take care of their harems and their numberless spawn, bitch the dude is broke.

Sepean · 2020-07-10T05:15:48+00:00

Because women too should take responsibility for their actions. A lot of single moms wouldn’t be single moms if they didn’t think the father would be on the hook to support her.

But mostly it is just fair. Just like women have the right to choose, so should men.

xinf3ct3d · 2020-07-09T21:41:02+00:00

When a woman is pregnant and the father is known she has him on the hook for 18 years.

Sure, the man could have used protection but the same argument gets completely ignored (for good reasons - accidents happen)

Everybody should stop pretending they cared about the kid. If lawmakers cared about kids they would never have legalized abortions.

Keep in mind the only difference between a fetus and an adult is time. Arguing about thing like consciousness is just rationalisation.

Today men carry the same responsibilities when it comes to parenting but get to enjoy none of the rights women have. If the woman decides to abort against his will he has to accept that. If she decides to give birth against his will he has to accept that with all the consequences.

Gender equality looks different.

Mrs_Drgree · 2020-07-09T21:12:51+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Sea-Buffalo · 2020-07-09T22:24:21+00:00

I’ll just leave this here for those who think women don’t try and trap a man.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/article-7309777/Motherhood-theft-investigate-disturbing-rise-spurgling-sperm-burgling.html

According-One-2930 · 2020-07-09T22:26:03+00:00

All you need to understand to resolve this puzzle is:

men only want to raise their own children.

DXBrigade · 2020-07-09T22:53:30+00:00

This is a case of men saying different things and you combining them into a single narrative so you can complain about us.

I support the right for men to abandon their child, but I harbor no ill will towards single parents and think they need all the support they can get. Yes, there are observed negative affects of being raised under a single mother but that doesn't mean we should spit on them. It means we should help then to mitigate these negative affects as much as possible.

First and foremost though, men should not be chained down to a woman and her child just because he came inside her. We can deal with the specifics after we get that sorted out.

Market_Feudalism · 2020-07-09T23:00:22+00:00

So that women are economically encouraged to stay with the father of their children. It's not right for the father to be responsible for continued provision of the child while the woman isn't responsible for providing continued sexual access to the father.

There is just one case in which child support should apply: divorce where the husband is deemed at fault.

vinx_finx · 2020-07-09T23:14:46+00:00

I think the person that makes the most money should keep the kid. Why pay someone else that isn’t working as hard. Sure my question is off topic but only because your question is putting two irrelevant things together. If a bitch is poking holes in condoms and expect child support because her trap to get the guy to stay with her didn’t work, then why would he want to have anything to do with that woman. Especially having a kid with her.

darksoldierk · 2020-07-09T23:31:48+00:00

Financial abortion is a compromise of equality of opportunity for actual abortion. Women can abort, men agree that it isn't right to force someone to go through a medical procedure if they don't want to ,so they compromise by saying that they want financial abortion, where the father has the choice to want nothing to do with the child and not be responsible for the child in any way shape or form. Most of these men will also say that if the father changes his mind after choosing to financially abort, the mother should have the right to decide if that is okay.

The single moms issue, in a way, is an extension of the problem that financial abortion is trying to fix. That extension is the equality of choice. Notice the key word there, "equality". There is no equality of choice, men lose all choice the minute contraceptives fail. Equality of choice, and obligation to the responsibility of those choices is why single moms are antagonized. They chose to get pregnant, they chose to not have an abortion, but they refused the responsibility of those choices. In other words, men want equality, they want equality of choice and responsibility only to those who can make the choice. Single mothers can make the choice which men can't, but men are forced to take responsibility for that woman's choice.

In our modern world, men don't get to choose to be parents (or not) every period of time that the woman can, ie. A man can't choose to not be a parent after she gets pregnant, but a woman can choose to not be a parent after she gets pregnant. Our society forces responsibility onto someone who never had a choice, it reallocates that person's wealth to someone else without giving that person a choice, at least not a choice that is equivelant to the other person. As this is the world that we live, and this world has no problems forcing responsibility onto some people without giving them the choice while giving other people a choice to take on that same responsibility, men's logic is that women who take advantage of that choice are leaches. It's a red flag. If this woman couldn't make it work with the father of her child, and she didn't see anything morally wrong with denying equal access (ie. the child living with the father) to the child while taking his money, then that's a red flag of entitlement. Most single mothers are entitled. They never wanted to give the men the choice, they feel entitled to men's ability to choose to become parents. They made a choice that may not be financially viable, and that choice showed that they feel entitled to other people's money, whether it's publicy funded programs, or the father's money. These are red flags, and men don't want to be with someone who has shown that this is how they think.

That's not even getting into the other issues with single moms. The fact that as a man, you would be wasting your time and money on a child that isn't even yours. You know she will never give you kind of attention that she gives to her child, or even, to her previous boyfriends. Dating a single mom means you are paying in effort, time and money, for a relationship that you are getting less out of. WHy do you think women think so highly of men who date single moms? Because women know that this guy's relationship is one where, not only is he the last priority in that relationship, but he is also not even the father. Men are the last priority in a relationship, and all they've ever been in that relationship is last priority, and the child isn't even theirs. It's a joke. Women love it, and love men like that, because they love men who have no self respect, and who accept not being respected.

Look, it isn't society's job to pay for a woman's decision to not get an abortion, it isn't society's job to pay for the poor choice in men that women make, women are adults, and as adults, they need to be fully responsible for the decisions that they make. I mean, for god's sake, men are expected to be fully responsible for choices they don't get to make, but women can't even be held responsible for the choices they do.

If you chose to have a child, it isn't society job to support you.

The solution to "force men" to take care of their children financial or otherwise is equivalent to the solution of "forcing women" to get an abortion. Both of these "solutions" would solve the single mom problem. Both of these solutions are immoral, yet society is okay with one, but not the other.

Men are simply saying "give me a choice, then hold me responsible for my choice. I will not pay for or raise a child that I did not have the same choice that women had in having". It's not complicated.

Of course, financial abortion should not be coupled with an increase in social benefits for women. All that would be doing is getting rid of forcing men to directly support single mothers, but forcing them to indirectly support them. Women need to accept responsibility, full responsibility of their choice to not abort, to have a child. They are the ones that get to make that choice, and until financial abortion is a thing, if it ever is, men are not morally obligated to pay for a child they never chose to have.

Grave_Heresy · 2020-07-09T23:34:32+00:00

Why do men who complain about single moms also advocate for men's right to abandon their kids (Financial abortion) ?

These are rarely if ever the same men. But for the record you can acknowledge that something is a problem while not wanting to be personally responsible for fixing the problem.

I see a lot of men complain about single moms saying that they are a problem to society,

Not the single mothers. Single motherhood is the problem.

that they cost welfare money, that the kids Don't grow well without a father around ,

This is supported by research findings.

that dating a single mom is wrong because it makes you a cuck…

Dating a single mom doesn't make you a cuck. It makes you a fool. Marrying a woman then having kids with her makes you a cuck....and a fool.

and at the same time I see a lot men advocating for Financial abortion,

Not endorsing financial abortion but think about it from the guys perspective, if you don't want a kid but a woman tricks you into having one, it makes sense that you wouldn't want to support the child. People are advocating for financial abortion to offset career single moms who are empowered by law to use underhanded tactics to secure income.

even though the best way to tackle this "single moms" problem would be to force men to raise their own kids.

Forcing men to raise their own kids isn't the same as expecting that a guy will happily raise another man's kids. That being said, the best way to stop single motherhood is for men to stop having sex with women. No sex, no kid, no mother or father.

drew8311 · 2020-07-09T23:38:34+00:00

Men don't complain about this, it's simply a dating preference which is perfectly fine to have.

woxmintari · 2020-07-10T00:06:47+00:00

There is no benefit to dating single mothers.

Aspanu24 · 2020-07-10T00:49:11+00:00

Many men don’t like it because the girl typically knows she’s having a child with an obvious f-boy loser, and so does everyone else. So many of the men feel like she should have chose someone who would be a better father. At least that’s the way I’ve seen men treat it. On the opposite end, women are the deciders of whether the child is born or not, and men have no say over it. “My body my decision.”

Beecher-Frank · 2020-07-10T00:59:55+00:00

Single mothers are single mothers because they made an extremely stupid decision, except in the case of where their husband or bf died. They chose to have children with a guy who was unreliable, so they should suffer the consequences of that action and another guy should not bail them out by using his hard earned money to cuck himself.

Sid_Insidious · 2020-07-10T01:18:41+00:00

The best way to tackle this problem is (a) effective birth control for men that ISN"T ABSTINENCE (because women can't be held to that standard even WITH effective birth control) and (b) requiring consent to create human life with his DNA, regardless of where he left it.

Leaving my car on the side of the road or even on your driveway doesn't give you the right to drive it. Possession is not the be-all end-all argument in this case.

sigma1932 · 2020-07-10T07:58:45+00:00

The only contradiction here is you expecting men to be responsible for their actions, but don't expect women to do the same.

Before I get into that point, let me get the easy point out of the way first:

On the point of abortion: Equality dictates that if women have a post-conception option to choose to not become a mother (i.e. abortion), men should also have a post-conception option to not become a father (financial abortion), plain and simple.

Moving on to the more in-depth, contradictory point: Single moms are more often than not in their situation because they made bad decisions of their own free will: they either chose to sleep with a shitty man and risk getting knocked up by him and then kept the kid, they chose to make themselves an unattractive relationship partner that a family-minded man won't associate with, or they either chose to leave or did something to fuck up a relationship with a decent man.

Considering women want all the authority when it comes to reproduction (particularly post-conception), they should bear all the responsibility for it as well.

Authority without responsibility is tyranny, responsibility without authority is oppression.

Continuing on from there....

even though the best way to tackle this "single moms" problem would be to force men to raise their own kids.

The best way to tackle this problem is for people to stop coddling women who let shitty men in between their legs in the first place in order to drive them to make better choices about who the fathers of their kids are. This includes not using tax money to fund an out-of-control welfare state that largely subsidizes promiscuity among women by supporting kids they end up having with shitty deadbeat men (i.e. the state, i.e. taxpayers, are bearing the consequence of women's bad decision to whore around with shitty men).

That aside, historically, they used to make the father 100% responsible for their kids by giving them to the father as the primary caregivers by default if the parents split up because he was the one actually supporting those kids--- i.e. men had all the responsibility over the kids, but also had all the authority over those kids' upbringing.

Feminists fucked this up with the "Tender Years Doctrine", which changed this to women getting the children by default, but still saddling men with the financial responsibility-- i.e. now women get all the post-conception authority, but the bulk of the post-conception practical responsibility still lies with the father even though he often has zero post-conception authority.

Additional sidenote: the "tender years doctrine" also was originally only to be enforced during the early years of a child's life, up to around 5 years old (which is when children traditionally were started on trade apprenticeships and in later generations entered formal primary schools)... feminists further fucked this up by pushing the goalposts back and increasing this window until the kids are in their late teens or even 20's like it is now, further increasing the imbalance of authority vs. responsibility in women's favor.

Besthater · 2020-07-10T08:33:48+00:00

Let me get this straight, women get my body my choice, and men get forced to raise children?

acmemetalworks · 2020-07-10T10:25:12+00:00

Who says both of these men are the same men? Imagine, differences of opinion within the same gender.

Notsonewguy7 · 2020-07-10T13:38:26+00:00

The reality it's not one to one. The man that is a deadbeat can have six kids by different women and not really worry about it. Meanwhile six other men will have none. So now you have a situation where five men have to pick up the slack one.

How do you decide who is responsible for the Kids if one guy or let's say 1 out of 1,000 men is deciding to be Genghis Khan and father as many kids as possible. That's not hyperbole either.

If one decided to get a woman Pregnant ever month for 3 years we are looking at 36 kids. How many kids can that man realistically pay 2-5 maybe. That's 31-34 kids without a father not 36 deadbeats.

One man can have a very big impact. The truth is as bad as it sounds women need to be good at vetting. We have no mechanism to Control for rogue men because social shaming doesn't work and they don't respect laws.

2020-07-10T17:08:58+00:00

I don't have LTR with single mom, never. But that's me.

Title	The single mom contradiction
Author	DXBrigade
Upvotes	172
Comments	961
Date	July 9, 2020 9:05 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/hobbdb/the_single_mom_contradiction/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-single-mom-contradiction.704683 https://theredarchive.com/post/704683

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