Why shouldn't men be the catch in relationships?

space_dan1345 · 2022-09-15T22:53:12+00:00

What does the woman offer? Sex, but I presume women want sex as well.

Do y'all like the people you date? Have you ever been with a woman who nerds out about the same shit you do? Who makes you laugh?

Bikerbats · 2022-09-15T21:39:28+00:00

You guys have to quit with the mental gymnastics. The underlying reason isn't as important as the practical fact that men chase women in sufficient numbers that women have their pick. Almost 3/4 of Tinder accounts are male. Bars and nightclubs run ladies' nights to attract more women because it attracts even more men. Doesn't matter if it is biology or socialization, it will not and cannot change unless men stop chasing. Are men going to quit chasing? No.

Also why would you list a longer window of fertility as a factor in your favor? Any fertile years beyond her own would be completely irrelevant to any woman. Trust me, no woman has comforted herself with, "At least he'll be able to get other women pregnant after I'm done."

GhostofCamus · 2022-09-15T21:39:49+00:00

You're setting yourself for an unhealthy relationship if there needs to be a "the" catch. Both partners should make the other feel lucky.

AssistTemporary8422 · 2022-09-15T22:48:06+00:00

- Earns more money.

Actually the gender gap for young single women is narrowing to the point that young single women are out earning their male counterparts in many major metro areas.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/women-under-30-outearn-men-in-some-metro-areas/vi-AAWg8AZ?category=foryou

- Is stronger

Yep because physical strength such is a necessity in 2022.

- Has a longer window of fertility

People are having 0-2 kids. Who cares about a massive fertility window?

- Is psychologically ''developed'' (brain maturation stops at 24/25)

So are women. And many dudes needed a lot more than 25 years.

What does the woman offer? Sex, but I presume women want sex as well.

The only good thing you can see in a woman is sex? Explains why you are on reddit complaining about women instead of dating.

Shouldn't women be begging to settling down with a man? Shouldn't women be simping over guys?

Because she might get pregnant with a bunch of guys who only wanted her for sex (sounds familiar?) and then be a struggling single mother. Now imagine that in the stone age with lions, starvation, and warring tribes.

hungrychick404 · 2022-09-15T21:31:52+00:00

I don’t look at guys and think “wow, men are superior to me because they can shoot sperm from their dicks for longer than I can ovulate 😍”

Also women are pursuing things like higher education more than men at this point. I think single, childless women out earn single men these days

urbangoth · 2022-09-15T21:38:38+00:00

Someone else's money isn't necessarily your money. Useless to anyone unless he's going to pay for things. If he's not, it's useless as a factor. If you can provide for yourself and are set, it can be a bonus, but it's still not yours and doesn't matter unless he's willing to financially merge with you in some form. Like buying a house.

Strength is irrelevant unless you're doing manual work of some kind. We're not in the woods needing to be protected from tribal wars. Plus, if I wanted legit protection, I'd just buy a gun. Or get extra safety measured installed around the house. Physical strength doesn't benefit people as much as it used to.

Just because a man could produce a kid at 50 doesn't mean he should; sperm can be mutated by age, too, and plenty of women have healthy children into their early late 30s/early 40s. And not everyone wants kids, anyway, so that factor may be completely irrelevant. Birth rates are dropping as less and less people are wanting kids.

People overall care more about looks and personality unless they're angling for kids or money. Goes for both sexes. In my experience, the men are usually the ones who want kids, not the women. But plenty of women comply if they're on the fence about it.

I don't care about a guy's degree or lack of one, his financials past ability to support himself comfortably, and I don't care about if he can have a kid with me or not, as I don't want kids.

Physically strong men are more threatening imo than they protective. The risk isn't worth the reward, for me. I'd rather not live with someone who can snap my neck. I actively vet against stronger men. I prefer androgyny or twinky types anyway.

And having your brain "fully developed" is irrelevant to any woman 25 or older. And younger women do not care about that. Like at all. Maturity and experience can be gained regardless of someone being 25 or not. I've met very mature 19 year olds and immature 40 year olds. It's not really a factor.

ashpr0ulx · 2022-09-15T23:01:05+00:00

in happy relationships, both partners view their other half as “the catch”, but for funsies:

i earn more than the average man in america.

i am not stronger than all men, but i am certainly stronger than a good amount- and anything i can’t lift, well, that’s what dollies, hand trucks, and forklifts are for.

my window of fertility is long enough- i don’t find the idea of a newborn at age 50 appealing.

i am psychologically developed.

literaryhogwartian · 2022-09-15T21:33:21+00:00

Are you suggesting that all women offer is sex? Seriously?

Novadina · 2022-09-15T23:26:32+00:00

How are any of those things a benefit to a woman? Especially one that is apparently so great it should make her want to “beg” to be with him? I’m not seeing what use any of these things are.

Warm_Gur8832 · 2022-09-15T21:34:15+00:00

A lot of men are hurt by other men, especially their own dads, growing up and then only feel emotionally safe around women.

To my knowledge, a dynamic like that doesn’t exist as much around women due to chivalry and similar social norms.

Men rely on women so much more to feel emotionally safe than the other way around, it’s just bundled into sex because we’re ashamed of feelings.

localmicrodosechamp · 2022-09-15T21:54:14+00:00

because they don't give anything.

most women who date men still have to work full time jobs. they don't just give us money even if they have more of it.

most women who sleep with men don't get orgasms from sex even though their male partners do.

men being stronger hurts more women than it helps.

men being fertile longer doesn't do anything for women.

most men are not taught how to nurture or support someone so they make bad friends/family/partners.

most men are not taught how to process emotions so they shove them down until they have rage explosions which can be dangerous for women.

If men are going to be a catch, we have to actually catch something when we get with them.

ruboyuri · 2022-09-15T21:49:41+00:00

Because women have jobs, domestic management skills, motivation and friends, and don’t care about sex as much as men

Feisty-Saturn · 2022-09-15T21:39:24+00:00

Women offer more than sex.

Average man only make 500 dollars more after tax than the average woman.

Yes, he is stronger. But I’m like pretty much done furnishing my apartment so I don’t need anything else to be lifted.

At 25 a woman still has a long window of fertility.

A woman is also psychologically developed.

risdeveau · 2022-09-15T21:27:03+00:00

Women offer sex. That definitely has value and a price, and is apparently the most important thing in the world to men

Therefore, women offer quite a lot

2022-09-16T01:01:48+00:00

Some are

You arent

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2022-09-15T21:29:43+00:00

I think the longer window of fertility would work against men if anything. If we want children we are all competing for the women in their twenties, whereas for men the women can get men of any age ( if all they care about is the ability to pr9duce sperm). This will obviously lead to a lot of men competing over a few women.

szclimber · 2022-09-16T03:36:27+00:00

Dick is plentiful and cheap

Academic_Snow_7680 · 2022-09-16T11:01:14+00:00

Wow, you regressed women down to "sex" - do you have any clue what that says about you??

It tells the rest of us that you don't see women as people. You only see women as suppliers of sex.

That is RAGING MISOGYNY.

rivertorain- · 2022-09-16T05:10:11+00:00

In every species, the parent who invests the most into childcare is the one who selects. In humans, that is women.

If you want men to be chased after, you’d need men to invest more in childcare than women.

AstronautLoveShack · 2022-09-16T00:42:07+00:00

No. Men want sex more than women. That's just the way it is and always has been. That doesn't preclude men from being a "catch", men are often described as a "catch" (what women would also call husband material though, which men hate).

Semigia · 2022-09-16T02:50:36+00:00

So you think women are only here for sex… I can only laugh …

mandoa_sky · 2022-09-16T08:57:52+00:00

well ya know women who want sex will still go after the hottest guy she can get. so if you're not hot, you lose out.

also most women find it easier to sexually satisfy ourselves than with a guy.

Ramzabeo · 2022-09-16T00:47:32+00:00

No gender should be the “catch” its all about finding someone who is right for you…thats it, never thought of my wife as the catch.

Whats with these mentalities in the dating game?

houstongradengineer · 2022-09-16T01:20:07+00:00

Either both people are catches, or neither is a catch. Anything else is the worst.

doggiedoc2004 · 2022-09-16T02:42:49+00:00

This is not how mammalian sexual selection works. Fundamentally, biologically, sex is expensive for females and cheap for males. This is a driver of our evolution for 100k + years. Females need to be choosy. Those that are the best at choosing have the best chance at getting their genes in the next generation. We are wired to mate/pair bond with those males that either provide the best chance at helping with child rearing and/or those that seem to have the optimum genetics.

Men are wired to spread their seed wide and/or pair bond to ensure paternity. Resource and status gathering are behaviors that would be conserved evolutionarily because this would likely lead to genes getting passed on.

Humans are apex because we can shift our mating strategies in some cases to best suit our genes survival. Ex: cuckoldry in women and polygamy in men.

Ultimately the core drivers are the same. As long as women gestate and rear young and there is an abundance of men, we choose when we can. Right now we are free. We have apps. We have careers. We do not have an under supply of men. However, we are never far from a state where men again try to control our bodies and our lives (thousands of years of patriarchy to ensure paternity)

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2022-09-16T08:32:02+00:00

You should only be with someone that you consider to be a catch, you should also only be with someone who thinks you are a catch.

kalashhhhhhhh · 2022-09-16T09:44:46+00:00

Me and my boyfriend offer the exact same things to each other. Sex, laughter, romance, emotional support, friendship. We are in college, so neither of us makes money, but one day both of us will have lucrative careers.

In my experience, both parties in a relationship offer similar things to each other. Most guys find their girls interesting, if not funny and smart. What kind of women are you guys talking to if all they could offer was sex?

BeepBeepSaysTheJeep · 2022-09-15T23:03:54+00:00

If they think all we offer is sex, then why do they expect us to be their unpaid therapists too?

darkvalleys · 2022-09-15T22:47:45+00:00

Because dick is abundant and of low value, as red pill says

DiamondLilyD · 2022-09-16T22:15:14+00:00

No because:

- The wage gap that exists between men and women is shrinking year on year

- Women still do most of the housework and childcare

- Mens sperm begins to decline at 35, but this is less discussed when compared to female fertility

- Brain maturation stops at 25 for women as well

- Women can get pregnant, carry a child, give birth and then breasfeed the child, men can do none of this

Rhubarb_Fair · 2022-09-19T12:16:55+00:00

If I see a man who I might like to be in a relationship with, yes I see him as a catch. Do I chase him? No. Do I initiate? No.

Because I did take the lead once before. Turns out that I therefore preselected for a man who was lazy and probably more with me out of convenience than conviction.

I now dont except a man to "chase" me either. But I do want him to show some initiative as a basic check against being with another lazy, undriven man.

SwaySh0t · 2022-09-15T22:33:18+00:00

HVM are the catch/prize because they are scarce. Beauty is very common especially in places like Miami and LA. Women keeping HVM in the dark about their value is women greatest asset next to beauty.

Early_Ad_7425 · 2022-09-15T21:29:51+00:00

Cuz vagina

Sudden_Substance7914 · 2022-09-15T21:32:06+00:00

Women offer sex and men are extremely horny. That’s it.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2022-09-15T22:51:06+00:00

Shouldn't women be begging to settling down with a man? Shouldn't women be simping over guys?

Um, women absolutely do this with men they are genuinely interested in or attracted to, if she's not then she doesn't see you as that kind of guy.

gabishes · 2022-09-16T00:37:19+00:00

I think you are missing the point. Men can totally be the catch but its not about arbitrary points.

To begin with men and women have really very similar windows of fertility, with the drop off causing birth defects at about the same time. And men’s fertility rates (sperm count) are dropping faster than womens. So no they aren’t the catch in that regard.

Men make more money due to how women have to structure their careers to have children. Starting out its about the same. Actually more women are graduating university than men now. So again not a catch in that regard. Especially since men want to go 50/50 these days and not be providers. Its not even relevant to the discussion.

Stronger? Yes men are physically stronger than women. Why is this special? Women aren’t dating men by picking the most physically strong anyways.

Since we are all done cooking at 25 its not a selling point either.

Men totally can be the catch, but that is based on the individual and how they developed themselves and their personality. Just like how a woman could be the catch.

2022-09-16T12:05:49+00:00

Why are you not a catch in your eyes?

Maybe sort out your frame.

Don't wish it was easier, wish to improve.

RandomRedditGuy322 · 2022-09-15T23:10:34+00:00

Men in the top 20% are the catch in the relationship. Thats why every woman strives to be with him. Women will only ever enthusiastically date men who they are inferior too. Hypergamy 101.

2022-09-15T21:49:02+00:00

You’re underestimating the power of the pu**y.

Purple317 · 2022-09-16T00:04:03+00:00

It reminds of the scene in the movie Swingers where one character says to the other "Man, you are money. You are so money you don't even know it".

Men are absolutely the catch. They just don't know it or act like it.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-09-16T00:48:45+00:00

Female hypergamy and greater male lust are key factors in defining the underlying architecture of the SMP.

One weird feature of this architecture is at the top, things do invert somewhat. Men may still chase, but it is kind of pro forma. At the apex of the SMP, in many ways the man is indeed the catch.

So if you are a man and want to be the catch, be in the top percentile of male SMV ranking.

Kman17 · 2022-09-16T01:06:54+00:00

I don’t quite follow the assertion here.

There are plenty of times men are the catch. There’s not some perpetual selection advantage to one over the other, though it does manifest differently and at different times.

Sufficiently successful men (like the wealthy) tend to have women compete for his attention.

Women approaching the end of their fertility years face a screaming biological clock and will compete over remaining stable and established men.

So yes, in like college and though most of one’s 20’s women tend to be the catch (having more choice) but that choice advantage fades and reversed later on.

Like so many things gender, the net experience isn’t measurably better/worse but it is different.

lovestocomment · 2022-09-16T05:57:05+00:00

Technically men are the catch considering women mainly date up (a man who is doing better than them).

Women being told they are the catch is a recent phenomena that is pushed by men who use the "empower" mating strategy. Some men use this strategy because it enchants women, which distracts them from focusing on the things that matter when it comes to picking a partner. Like Competence, resources, soft skills, ability to lead and being honest for example.

So you are the catch. Now just maintain your standards and vet properly.

Women have way more to off than sex. However, as leader you have to find what those things are. If you can't, the. You need to work on your leadership skills.

_revelationary · 2022-09-15T21:26:02+00:00

If you think women truly offer nothing other than sex, then I think it would be very natural to make this assumption.

A couple thoughts:

-we could argue that some women are doing this to an extent — shooting their shot with the “catches” (the top tier men on tinder, for example, while ignoring average guys).

-gender roles/what women typically find attractive - confidence, assertiveness, etc, which she can perceive more easily in a guy if she waits for him to approach her.

-women are more motivated to pursue commitment (generally, not always), and being the pursuer might indicate the man’s level of commitment to her.

-women make plenty of money now, so the allure of “he makes more money than I make” is a bit weaker, although probably still exists for many women.

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AngelBull69 · 2022-09-15T21:29:44+00:00

Entitlement/delusional

ffandyy · 2022-09-15T21:39:34+00:00

A lot of women do consider men to be catches.

meddit-throwaway · 2022-09-15T22:24:06+00:00

It's basic supply and demand. There is a lot of demand for women, pretty much all of them. There is not much demand for men because women would rather share the top 20% of men than have a bottom 80% man all to themselves.

tharkyllinus · 2022-09-15T22:44:19+00:00

It would take something like another world war. When it ends up that there are a lot less men than women that would change the dynamic. The ones left would have to make better time.

LotBuilder · 2022-09-15T23:03:18+00:00

For a relationship to work properly the guy does need to be the catch… but he needs to be humble enough to treat her like she is.

Obvious-Rise9199 · 2022-09-15T23:11:26+00:00

Because 25 year olds are dickheads.

Obvious-Rise9199 · 2022-09-15T23:15:10+00:00

After 40, after a woman had their kids with their first husbands, after you have earned all that money you assume you are going to earn, after you still keep yourself in shape when it starts getting a little harder than it was before, and not only after you develop, but you actually mature with great experiences that give you an interesting perspective, that is when it is fairly easy to date. You just have to do the work first.

CandyCaneCollectress · 2022-09-15T23:20:00+00:00

Some men are catches, but not all obviously just like how not all women are catches

Smergmerg432 · 2022-09-15T23:44:05+00:00

This… this is how it is for me.

midwesternMD · 2022-09-16T01:49:23+00:00

One thing you’re omitting is that if you’re a man, you are probably approaching (or want to approach) women far more often. Arguably most likely in an effort to get laid. Women don’t need to chase because we (men) collectively consider them to be a prize of sorts.

If we (men) collectively embraced the idea that we don’t need women to live fulfilling lives, then yes, men might be the catch. Women have been preaching something to that effect for a while, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that mentality has contributed to the lopsided gender participation in dating apps.

But I would argue that the income factor is trending towards irrelevance (women are beginning to out earn their male peers), psychological maturity is a non-issue (some data suggests that women psychologically mature a few years faster than men), and fertility is in large part dictated by the woman anyway. There are plenty of other reasons that men might be awesome relationship prospects, but your listed reasons are pretty weak.

techr0nin · 2022-09-16T02:14:16+00:00

It’s just basic supply and demand. If World War III happens and say 25% of men die fighting, then men would indeed be the catch.

Complex-Glass-8539 · 2022-09-16T02:17:30+00:00

I mean, it does flip a bit, age well and get to your late 30’s with money.

20’s women are just desirable to too many men.

I mean the most desirable men, top 3-5% from about 25-30 years of age range (20-50) are all pursuing about 8 years worth of women….it’s just not gonna flip amongst those women with the numbers. Too much demand, not enough supply.

But, when you’re an above average dude who ages well, the script flips a bit.

There is a reason the “trade her in for a younger model” trope exists, it’s because the dude who was decently desirable at 20, and then becomes successful, is very, very desirable when they get to their late 30’s if they age well. A 35-40 year old, good looking single dude with a house and knows his worth doesn’t really have to do much to get it with a pretty good amount of attractive 25-40 yo women.

Those dudes have also lived enough life to know the whole “wanting virgin” stuff is just a load of bullshit, and to appreciate the “being chased” and the value of enthusiasm, and how big of a happiness impediment viewing your partner as a “status symbol” is.

Stop_Maximum · 2022-09-16T06:49:50+00:00

To be honest, a woman who take care of herself and have a good career can make enough money and still be “stronger” than people who let themselves go. I think it’s more about the individual. Some women can also have a sort of “longer” fertility although they are usually advice to have children earlier on. But there are still women getting pregnant at 50, 60 etc.

Also, I don’t think they need to beg to be with a man, but anyone regardless. You can pretty much be on your own and still be good. Children not everyone wants them, but even in that case, you can have them on their own. Unless you choose to partner up.

Acceptable_Parking96 · 2022-09-16T11:35:14+00:00

A happy relationship that works isn’t about what tangible things or list of attributes one has to offer, it’s about whether both are compatible with one another, if they love and get along with each other.

The happiest couples are often unconventional, for example a tall woman and short man or an attractive man and conventionally unattractive woman etc. that’s because their personalities compliment each other.

Attractiveness is more based on the individual that appearance in long term situations. A good partner is a best friend that is also sexy but a level deeper than just friendship. Partners who truly love each other go through hard times together and try to help each other, even when theirs little hope. There is no catch or leveling up. It just works or doesn’t.

Modern dating apps and social standards pressure us to become more materialistic and have a list of dumb requirements like: 6ft+ or this much money in the bank etc. All that does is lower self esteem and create toxic relationships.

I went on a tangent, my point is that both are a catch to each other if they love each other

wtknight · 2022-09-16T14:00:20+00:00

I was the “catch” to lower value women than me once I reached that point you describe. The problem is that women are still hypergamous. If they are equally as accomplished as a given man, they are usually attracted to a man who is more accomplished. Men can attract these women if they put in the work, but they are not “catches” to these women.

JumboJetz · 2022-09-16T15:52:45+00:00

There’s been like a decades long movement to tell women they don’t need men. The movement MGTOW only started I feel like 8 years ago. So maybe if MGTOW ever picks up in a few decades the balance will shift as more men actually opt out of dating.

yamb97 · 2022-09-16T15:58:25+00:00

The market is the market, men tend to want women more than women want men so that’s how it goes. Any “logic” or reasoning anyone can come up with doesn’t matter.

INFPSoloDuh · 2022-09-16T18:22:27+00:00

Be picky. If you're doing well getting dates and attractive, treat yourself like you're the catch. You are. Don't let the zeitgeist or social media or even what women say let you forget that you are. No one is owed you, even if most women think they're owed some HVM (such a delusional and dumb label). Do you sir.

IOportA · 2022-09-16T18:57:12+00:00

The fact that women want chase the best of the best men shows that men are indeed the prize, and always have been.

AdditionalPrice7336 · 2022-09-16T19:18:17+00:00

the quiet life then

14ers4days · 2022-09-16T21:47:10+00:00

Women ARE pursuing men and trying to get them to commit.

FlyV89 · 2022-09-17T18:39:01+00:00

On an antrophological and pure economic sense, men are always the catch in a relationship.

Men are better than women. "Low value men" are actually better than even some very acomplished, smart women out there.

The thing is, because men rule the world, whatever men say it's valuable, whatever men agree on granting some intrinsic value, it becomes valuable by default.

Just think about it. Why is gold valuable? Why are diamonds valuable? You can't do much with it besides look at it. It's not something you gonna eat or enjoy, it's not something inherently funny to look at...

Well, men think gold it's valuable, so it becomes a commodity.

We do the same with women. We want women, so all of a sudden women become a commodity, something that has value.

Men cannot be commodified because, first, they are the buyers. We are all "competitors", we are competing against each other to see which one gets more resources (and women) and which one is the best of all. And when men at the top try to commodify us, try to price us... We get kinda mad haha. "We are buyers, not stock" dudes say and start to make a mess.

Men are, as a whole, the most valuable and scarce resource in this planet, but we have created this "game" in which everything around us has some value but us. That's why the dinamic always seem to skew towards women.

Women are more valuable than men the same way a diamond is more valuable than men and gold is more valuable than men.

This dinamic has been present even in the ancient times. Women like Cleopatra and Helen of Troy are great examples of the extent men are willing to go to posses a woman. They were often even presented as part of the territory the beligerant factions disputed, kinda "I'm going to war for Helen... And the gold in Troy... And the geoestrategical position of Troy".

This dinamic persist to our days even, hence why men can't be the "price". There are men, of course, that have more resources (and women) than others. We tend to call those men "high value men", but that's not accurate. They are just resourseful men. Ultimately, every man is competing with others of his same kind. This may be or may be not explicit and obvious in some interactions, there are women out there who think they tied down "a catch", but as a macro level intersexual dinamics have been set since the first man and the first woman walked Earth, and permeare all humans interactions to a lesser or bigger extent.

Mediocre-Sherbert528 · 2022-09-19T22:43:21+00:00

They do

goats-egg · 2022-09-20T03:25:34+00:00

😭😭 this is enough ppd for me today. just buy a fleshlight if women are only good for sex. just scrap the whole fucking dating market already

NakedStreets · 2022-09-24T04:07:00+00:00

Is psychologically ''developed'' (brain maturation stops at 24/25)

You understand that women have brains, right?

Title	Why shouldn't men be the catch in relationships?
Author	SantarpiosPizza
Upvotes	4
Comments	239
Date	September 15, 2022 9:20 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/xf8bup/why_shouldnt_men_be_the_catch_in_relationships/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-shouldnt-men-be-the-catch-in-relationships.1132873 https://theredarchive.com/post/1132873

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