Texas Abortion Laws Mega-Thread

AutoModerator · 2021-09-04T20:00:15+00:00

What are your thoughts and feelings about the Texas Abortion Laws?  Please Join Us on Discord! Include your reddit username, pill color, age and...

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[–]Reisiluu5 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It's not always about money although that can be the case sometimes.

Women who came close to dying during their most recent pregnancy or childbirth might not want to risk death again. Many women are disfigured during birth. Skin and muscles tear and doctors sow them back together incorrectly. If I had to live with pain and couldn't have sex normally, or if I shat and pissed myself every time I jumped, I would not want to inflict even more damage onto myself. People offer sterilization as the solution but how easy is it to get sterilized as a woman under 30 with only 1 kid?

And there can be issues within the marriage that threaten to break apart the whole family. Not nice for the existing kids. Maybe hubby cheated during the last pregnancy, as men sometimes do, and they had just started to fix things. Maybe they already have a disabled child and absolutely could not handle another.

It's easy for people to moralize when they've never been in that situation. And if they have, of course their abortion was "different" from the ones those damned sluts are having.

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Does forcing impoverished women to breed unwanted children before they've had an opportunity to advance their own education raise their collective IQ? Does it raise the IQ of their offspring? Do unwanted children have good outcomes on average? Do orphaned children whose mothers died from high-risk pregnancies they could not abort have good outcomes? Consider that the wealthiest women always have access and that antichoice laws really only serve as an assault on the rights of the poor. It is not by coincidence that every antichoice place is a shithole. Antichoice laws are themselves dysgenic.

What about poor women who are able to abort successfully. Are they more or less likely to want to bring female children into an extremely patriarchal world where they will have no rights? Heavily patriarchal India also has the highest female suicide rate in the world, further exacerbating their sex ratio issues.

It is already the case that certain cities like Boston and New York have female-heavy sex ratios at prime ages due to inward migration. Why couldn't that intensify with Texas signaling they don't want their reproductive aged women?

But in order to consider these things, one would first have to understand consequences of social policy and social conservatives do not have the IQ to think these things through to their logical conclusions. They do not learn from observed consequence because they cannot learn. They are literally too dumb.

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[–]relish5k1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Abortion isn't the only tragedy IMO; it's also terrible to bring a child into the world and attempt to raise it when you are woefully unprepared to adequately provide for it. Maybe this new law will make that less likely to happen? I hope so.

It could have that effect for some but coercion is the least effective way to reduce abortion - promoting access to affordable, long term contraception is largely responsible for the decrease in abortion we have been steadily experiencing over the last 10 years or so.

It's kind of shocking that Delaware of all places gets a shout out, but look what they have managed to do: https://upstream.org/blog/2019/10/17/new-data-delaware-has-largest-decline-in-abortion-rate-nationwide/

If the plan was to reduce abortions, BC is the way to go. But if the goal is to terrify and shame women then this bounty hunter law is golden. Even if you do have some women scared straight, the ones who get unlucky or just cling doggedly to their sluttery are going to become parents, ruining a whole slew of lives in the process

[–]Willow-girl2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

promoting access to affordable, long term contraception is largely responsible for the decrease in abortion we have been steadily experiencing over the last 10 years or so.

I agree. The Colorado study in particular shows the advantage to making it available to young and poor women. I hope Texas will step up its BC game for sure! And perhaps the law will encourage women to consider LARCs or other long-term methods rather than relying on riskier ones like condoms alone.

My opinion is based in part on personal experience. As a young woman, I was careless with birth control because I was pro-choice and figured I'd just have an abortion if I ever "got caught." I took one chance too many, and finally wound up pregnant, but then decided I couldn't bear to go through with an abortion, even though I was not in a good situation to raise a child.

If the stakes had been higher -- if abortion weren't a readily available option -- I think I would have been more careful and might have avoided pregnancy altogether.

Historical statistics show that the percentage births to single mothers were much lower prior to the advent of the Pill and legal abortions. It's counterintuitive but true nevertheless! I think women were simply more "careful."

[–]relish5k1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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After deciding to have and keep the baby, I had a miscarriage, which was probably for the best, as I was early in my recovery from substance abuse, living through a Michigan winter in a singlewide trailer with hardly any heat, working 12-hour shifts as a waitress and still earning barely enough to keep myself fed and pay my lot rent. It is a testimony to the maternal instinct that I believed bringing a child into that environment was preferable to killing it. And sadly, social programs provide just enough assistance to make poor women believe they can keep and raise their unplanned babies, without actually giving them enough to be able to do a good job at motherhood.

The good news is that after that one slip-up, I never took chances with my birth control again. I got an IUD and have had one ever since. But were it not for the miscarriage, I probably would have spent my entire life in dire poverty, whereas by remaining childfree I've managed to keep my head above water. And in hindsight I'm glad I did not bring a child into the world to be damaged by the consequences of growing up in poverty.

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One more thing I meant to add was, this is an example of many things coming back to bite you in the ass. Which if you think that can't happen, you're an idiot.

I'm not going to get into the vaccination issue, I will say I have my concerns about it. I'm not an anti-vaxxer nut, I have long felt they haven't exactly helped the issue, but I do have my concerns about this covid vaccine. I will leave it at that for now.

As may have said, my body my choice, in relation to the vaccine issue. Meanwhile they are getting barraged by these hardcore leftists who tell them to just shut up take it do the right thing and don't be selfish. And then they complain about this "choice" being taken away.

Uh, are yah that fuckin dense? You really think you can take this do as I say and not as I do so I can have my cake and eat it too and it's not going to backfire on you? This applies to many other issues, but focusing on this one now.

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I have some things to say about this. This is not going to be about partisan ideology left vs right, this is not how dare you say or believe this, etc. No, this is more cause and effect.

However one may feel about this issue, ask yourself, why did this happen? Like really try to think about this beyond the typical oh those evil nasty backwards christian republicans who hate women made this happen. While that angle is part of this, there's a little more to this.

If a law such as this, or for anything else one may not agree with gets passed, like let's say criminalizing or sentencing non violent drug offenders with unfair sentencing they have no chance in hell of beating or the issue of voter id etc. If laws are passed in the opposite of what you agree with, there is a reason for that.

The reason is that you,those on your side of the issue,in this case the political left, did not do more or enough to get people elected or legislation or bills passed to prevent the law you disagree with from passing. Why? Cause you were probably focused on totally stupid non related shit that has nothing to do with the said issue at hand.

I'm not even this die hard conservative. I hate to give the impression that I'm just like your always angry older constant fox news watching,maga hat wearing,Trump/the republicans can do no wrong, or the far end,Qanon relative, and I don't even have anything against all of those aforementioned types,although Qanon has gone off the deep end even for me,whole other issue,and not my way of looking at these issues,but you'd be hard pressed to deny that for the better part of over a decade, and perhaps I will get into the cause and effect of why this is, but leftism or whatever it's become has utterly fucking failed. The recent shitshow in Afghanistan is the just most recent and glaringly obvious example.

Why do you ask? You were not focused on the aforementioned getting people elected to pass or block legislation or pass or block bills that will stop stuff you disagree with while passing and enacting stuff you do agree with. As far as I'm concerned, above all else, that should be the main and mainly only focus of anyone political party regardless of what that or your own party is. Anything else is like secondary and may or may not be totally unrelated fucking bullshit to the issue at hand.

What happened you ask? Oh it's pretty obvious. You/they the left were far more focused on this stupid fucking culture war shit and making sure everyone who was a self proclaimed democrat or liberal was liberal enough and if they weren't you made them feel like they had to jump through hoops to join and be in. All the while seemingly devoting more time and hatred talking about how bad those awful republicans are and if they just went away we'd be all set. You're a fucking political party. Your aim is to try and get people to join and vote so you can have this leverage or upper hand or however you want to put it. not repel them away. I mean holy fucking shit, if Trump winning wasn't enough of a sign you got to do things different, I don't know what the fuck else is.

So what happened? Well while you were circle jerking over who is more liberal and liberal enough or not liberal enough all the while thinking if you just hate the republicans enough all of this shit will just end, well all of those republicans you hate were out actually winning elections thus allowing them to get the upper hand on issues such as this thus making it so something like this can happen.

What I don't get for the life of me is a couple things. First off, these republicans say what they're going to do, and then when they do it, you act like someone walking into the middle of a busy roadway getting surprised when they get hit by a car going maybe about 50 mph and then you go flying and get seriously injured or killed.

In the past few days since this took place, there has been a number of issues from "activists" saying we said this was going to happen and were told we're over reacting, it'll be fine etc. And while I can relate to that feeling as having had that happen to me only to be proven right,again, this goes back to what I said before, you were not involved enough or did not do enough to have people elected to stop something like this from happening. Instead, you want to make these grand statements and when someone asks more so about in detail, you hit them with "well if you don't know or understand then I can't tell you", or when you don't get what you want immediately, you throw this temper tantrum. Well surprise surprise it doesn't work that way.

Years ago, I remember reading this quote from one of these activist types who while I probably would not agree with her on everything, she had the right idea. I don't recall the name, but the quote went something like "The fight never ends. You have to be involved in all ways for the fight so they don't win and get laws and legislation passed you don't agree with."

That's probably not accurate, but it's what I best remember. Again, clearly she meant being involved in things like getting people elected and bills and laws passed etc.

Let me tell you something, think of this like an intense sports team rivalry. You may hate that team with an utter passion, but you're an idiot if you think they're not going to do their damnedest to win the big game or enough games to get to the big game, world series, superbowl,nba playoffs, stanley cup finals, and win that.

Last part to this. Thank you for reading.

So I don't know if you heard this, but in response to this issue, actress/singer Bette Midler came up with a wacky solution to this problem.

She suggested a sex strike against men until this law is overturned and no other laws like this are ever passed!!!!!!

I'm not hear to take personal potshots at anyone, enough people already have in relation to this, but I will tell you why this is a stupid idea and approach.

Yes, stand up for what you believe, speak up and speak out, have a backbone, stand up for the right thing, as long as it's the liberal way right? That's a joke, etc.

But holding people to a t over this isn't going to work. This isn't solving the problem, it's throwing a temper tantrum. Or in other words, not everything has to take the Bobby Sands approach. If you don't know who that is look it up.

Cause here's the thing about something like, it might sound like a good idea, but people can only hold out on something like that for so long. I don't even mean they're going to stop and just start fucking anyone anytime anywhere anything or one that moves. No no. Usually the more rational side of them kicks in and they realize this isn't working or going anywhere or making the impact we thought it would. One main reason being if there's more people and they decide they don't like this it's not going to last for long.

So wouldn't be not nec. an easier but better idea to like I said, focus on getting people elected who you agree with more and will most likely pass the bills and legislation you want passed and stop the ones you don't?

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Democrat run states generally have larger and more advanced economies. Texas until relativley recently was a resource economy and as it developed it also began turning blue as it opened jobs that only really had a good pool of employees from blue states. This was essentially also why Georgia went blue since the counties that switched were increasingly associated with tech and media like Chatham County.

The general movement pattern means that there are more leftists than there were previously and you're probably mostly going to see workers who move but then go out of state if they need an abortion.

The Democrats have been floating the idea of taking texas for like a decade. The problem is, as the above poster alluded, that their candidates to do so aren't that great. They got super excited about Castro as a young latino politician who was mentored by Obama but he didn't have Obama's charisma and always struggled as a result.

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How is saying 'if men have to pay child support women should be physically tortured and potentially die,' any sort of truth? It's just wishing ill will on women because he seems to hate them.

Why would any man with any sort of conscious think a women should be forced to stay pregnant against her will simply because men have to pay child support? Pregnancy in of it self poses all sorts of health risks. Then there's birth, which is a horrific experience even if all goes well. The majority of women experience some sort of injury, whether it be tearing or otherwise. Some injuries are grievous, a few deadly. Then there's the risk of ppd/psychosis.

I can't imagine looking 50% of the population in the face an telling them I don't care if you die or become disabled, traumatised for life, etc, because men have to pay child support. Like what?

Women's bodily autonomy is not synonymous with men's child support. They are entirely different topics of conversation and are not mutually exclusive. They are unrelated issues. You follow?

The argument reminds me of how some people around here bitch about how narcan is free but insulin is not. You can pick it up at a pharmacy no charge. So people complain about how narcan shouldn't be free and all those who need it but can't afford it should be left to die since they did it to themselves. They say it's more important to give people insulin over people who are hurting themselves. However, the main takeaway from all this is people simply not wanting others to have free stuff if they can't have free stuff. They'd prefer people to suffer and die, over being slightly disadvantaged and not getting free things too. Do you see how utterly fucked up that is?

How about instead, both are valid yet entirely different issues. Both are worthy of discussion but not mutually exclusive nor should they be. They are completely different problems.

One group of people shouldn't suffer immensely simply because another group can't get their way right now. See what I'm saying?

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't we just let have women have rights to their own bodies and then work on the rest instead of turning it into whatever this disgusting despicable mess is?

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I get that it happens, but it is to a very small percentage of women given modern medicine

No!!! This is absolutely wrong and I think many men don't realize this at all.

Nonfatal injuries that wreak havoc on a woman's quality of life remain surprisingly prevalent. Depending on the study, 50 to 80 percent of women who give birth experience tearing of the pelvic skin and muscles.

Between 25 and 34 per cent of women report that their births were traumatic.

The majority of women (up to 9 in every 10) will tear to some extent during childbirth. Most women will need stitches to repair the tear. Most tears occur in the perineum; this is the area between the vaginal opening and the anus.

I personally had a 4th degree tear (which I think happens in about 2% of women). If you're unfamiliar: A fourth degree tear goes through the anal sphincter all the way to the anal canal or rectum. These tears require surgical repair and it can take approximately three months before the wound is healed and the area comfortable.

For me this lead to bladder and bowel incontinence. Neither of these are rare after giving birth.

According to the latest research, women who give birth vaginally are more likely to experience these complications afterward. In some cases, issues of urinary incontinence can last up to a year, and smaller percentages of women are still living symptoms after 5 years.

Problems with anal incontinence following childbirth may linger long after childbirth and hurt women’s quality of life and ability to care for their child, a new study finds.

In a previous study, about 38% of women reported new onset of at least one anal incontinence symptom in the 3-6 month period after delivery.

Postpartum psychosis is a serious mental health illness that can affect someone soon after having a baby. It affects around 1 in 500 mothers after giving birth. Of the women who develop postpartum psychosis, research has suggested that there is approximately a 5% suicide rate and a 4% infanticide rate associated with the illness.

I could go on and on about all the complications of birth/postpartum, but I think you get the point.

it should be a fixed amount across the board based on the lowest common denominator

I 100% disagree. I know a guy who pays as little as like $30 a month (court ordered). That's not even a large tin of formula here, whereas daycare alone costs her like $1200 a month. It should absolutely be based on wages. A man making over 100,000 a year should not only be spending $30 a month on his kid. As far as I'm concerned dad's should be paying for half of everything, like food, clothes, daycare, etc, but they don't even have to do that. They get off light. They barely have to spend any money (or time) on the kid.

[–]techr0nin [score hidden] 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Child birth is painful yes. What I said was most don’t suffer from death or permenant injury. If you’re using yourself as an example, then I would say I have three kids myself and my wife fully recovers from each after 6-12 months. I know alot of moms and I honestly don’t know any that has serious complications (although I would say my circle does have a high proportion of c-sections). Frankly it seems like most of the numbers you listed don’t actually contradict what I said.

As far as child support, how much a man making 100k would spend on his LEGITIMATE children is irrelevant. If a woman unilaterally decides to have the child, she shouldn’t expect him to pay the same as he would on kids he opts in on.

As for what the baseline should be, sure I agree $30 is too low, though I’ve never heard a number like that ever. Let’s just set it at an amount based on a minimum wage income, regardless of the man’s actual income.

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Just one kid can easily cost more than 3 grand a month. A crappy two bedroom apartment here will cost you around $2400 (one bedrooms are around 1800, which a landlord cant legally rent to a parent and child). The shittiest daycare will be around $1200. If you want your kid to be well taken care of and have more of a preschool/learning environment, that will be closer to $1800.

I remember my friend complaining about the cost of formula. Her milk never came in properly so she had no choice. She said she used two tubs a week. I just googled the exact price, which is 31.97 at Walmart. So that's $255.76 (not including tax) a month just to feed the baby.

So, currently, we're at $600 for that extra bedroom, let's say 1500 for an intermediate daycare, and 256 for just formula. So, $2356. This doesn't include any bills, like hydro, water, transportation or other necessities like healthy snacks for baby, diapers, clothes, toys, etc.

I'm not saying dads need to pay all of that, I think they should be required to pay half of all expenses at the very least. However, if they have the means to do more than the bare minimum and provide more that the very basic necessities for their child, they should.

custody should be given to breadwinner

If you're a cis man I'm not even willing debate this since you could simply never understand the physical and emotional rollercoaster of being pregnant and giving birth. A cis man simply could never comprehend the physical and emotional bond that is created when your grow and birth another human.

They only time a baby should ever be removed from the mothers custody is if she is a danger to the baby or in a dangerous situation, like completely homeless.

I don't think newborns should ever be separated from their mothers unless absolutely necessary. I don't think over night visits should happen with dad until either at least a year or unless she says she's ready. Then it should slowly go to 50/50 custody, although I've never met a dad who actually wanted that much custody. Not saying they don't happen, I've just never seen it out in the wild.

[–]HotDamImHere2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Lmfao where the hell do you live that a "crappy" 2 bedroom apartment cost 2400. I live around NYC in a 2 bedroom apartment thats around 2k. In Jersey you can get a nice 2 bedroom in a decent neighborhood for 1200-1600 and still have access to public transit if need be.

And ill give you daycare, its around 1200 where Im at but its definitely a GOOD daycare. As a male, im not paying that unless my child actually attends daycare. So that shouldn't be calculated in child-support unless the child actually attends (I know many many mothers that leave their child at either cheaper places or drop their child off at a relatives). Besides thats temporary until school age kicks in.

Utilities also doesn't also magically go up when a baby is in the picture. I really dont see that being much of a problem until the baby is alot older and even then it isnt too much unless you have more kids.

Food is definitely up there when it comes to support. Shit i used to spend dam near 800 bucks on food in a 4 person home a month. But its controllable with a budget.

Clothes and diapers are a necessity and should definitely be included. But diapers are temporary and clothes can also be budgeted as well.

Yes pregancy is a very tough time for the women, I can not comprehend the process because I am not a woman. However this isn't about women, this is about the sake of the child, and if the child can have a better life living with the breadwinner (Male or female), then they should be given to them. The entire premises of child support is to ensure a quality of life for the child (and also foot the bill away from the state). Men and women feelings are irrelevant here. 50/50 custody can be established after that. Theres other solutions I have thought of for many of the small problems they may come of all this, but thats a debate on its on.

Source: Helped raised 2 kids

Lastly pardon my ignorance but what is a cis male?

[–]lady-luckii1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Lmfao where the hell do you live that a "crappy" 2 bedroom apartment cost 2400.

Canada. BC specifically. I live in a 'cheap' area. In Vancouver the average two bedroom apartment rental is over $3000😬

im not paying that unless my child actually attends daycare.

Obviously. Only what the kid needs/uses should be calculated into child support.

I know many many mothers that leave their child at either cheaper places or drop their child off at a relatives

I think there needs to be proof of these expenses before someone forks over money. Nobody should be getting screwed.

Utilities also doesn't also magically go up when a baby is in the picture

If you go from a bachelor suite or from a 1 bed place to a 2 bed, presumably the place will be bigger, which will require more utilities. Like hydro in my one bed apartment is about $150 a month in the winter, whereas my sister's house can be over $500.

I don't really know how you'd calculate that into child support. I haven't thought about it long enough. Probably not at all if the child is split 50/50 since the father will have the same expenses at his own place.

However this isn't about women, this is about the sake of the child, and if the child can have a better life living with the breadwinner (Male or female), then they should be given to them.

As someone who was raped, impregnated, then forced by my parents to birth the baby and ultimately decided to give the baby up for adoption, there is zero percent of me that agrees with you. I can't explain the emotional pain and heartbreak giving up a baby I didn't particularly want and even struggled to look at.

I can't fathom the sheer agony it would cause mothers who wanted and loved their babies. Working in health care I've heard the screams of mothers who lost their babies or had their babies taken away, sometimes justified, sometimes not. The world would be an extremely evil and vile place to take babies away from their mothers simply because the father has more money. I just can't comprehend that kind of evil. It's mind boggling. It makes me sick to just think of it.

I couldn't take newborn pups away from a dog, let alone a newborn from a human mother. It's simply unthinkable to me. In the beginning of life, babies don't need riches. They need their mom, and as far as I'm concerned their mom needs them.

Anyways as the child gets older, I don't believe one parent should have more time than the other. I think it should automatically be split 50/50. Who has more money should be irrelevant.

Money doesn't equal better parenting anyway. Simply observing life has taught me that. It just affords more opportunity which can still be accessed regardless of who has custody.

Lastly pardon my ignorance but what is a cis male?

A born male. Trans men can and do give birth, so they'd understand the emotional and physical intricacies of pregnancy and birth.

[–]HotDamImHere1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't know how to quote over mobile

But the child isnt being taken away from its mother, its living with the breadwinner while the other parent shares custody rights. All of that stuff is over dramatic for the situation. If thats the case, on the reverse side, the child automatically being awarded to the mother is a tragic for the father. The child isn't being stolen from a parent. The child will live with the parent who is more suitable financially. As you argued that being financially stable isnt a good clause for being a good parent, well so is soley just giving birth isnt a qualification as a good mother and thats what the courts go with at the moment. But there is one thing everyone including the courts agree with, no child should be left in total poverty if it can be prevented

Well you solve that by placing the child with the parent more financially off. 50/50 custody should be given and a new reformed child support can be calulated and enfored to the other parent. If parent isnt suitable to be a primary parent, the other can take them to court. Its the same process men have to go through now. At LEAST this process is actually more fair since its ACTUALLY is and cares about the welfare of the child, not feelings, not outdated laws, or this notion that mothers (or fathers) are superior parents.

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You have complete power to avoid pregnancy. You have complete control over your body. That's what these rights are about

No because a woman can accidentally get pregnant but still end it. A man can accidentally get a woman pregnant but not have a say in ending his responsibility. So both can make careless mistake but only women get an extra chance to save themselves. Men don't.

Forcing a woman to bear a rapist's baby is the most evil thing I can imagine.

I heard that is only like 1% of abortions were due to rape.

I'd rather get cancer. I'd rather die.

I am trying to be 100% honest. I don't care about what happens to women in this instance because they currently have more rights than me to end a baby and the responsibility. For that reason I am pro life. Just to stick it back to women. Because again, if I can't have a choice I will take away their choice with a smile.

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I think the law will make more people take birth control VERY seriously, and this may have some (perhaps unintended) positive side effects.

Right now, 45% of pregnancies are unplanned. I suspect in many cases, people are careless about using birth control, thinking that abortion is always an option. However, if they actually find themselves pregnant, even pro-choice women sometimes decide against abortion, and decide to have and keep the baby anyway. (I know I did!) The problem is that they may be woefully unprepared and unsuited for motherhood, and the resulting child may not fare well.

If abortion is taken off the table as an option (or nearly so), perhaps so many babies won't be accidentally conceived, and this would be a good thing!

We have very good birth control methods available now, even subsidized by the government in many cases. There really is no excuse for having an unwanted pregnancy. Let's get serious about prevention.

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