Getting laid as a guy shouldn't be this difficult

beautiful_falcon776 · 2026-01-13T14:44:48+00:00

I think many women don't understand the plight of the men. How difficult to find a partner who will agree to get laid with you. There's just...

[–]kmb218Blue Pill Woman[🍰] [score hidden] 6 months ago (122 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lemon_geckoChanging pills based on my mood Woman [score hidden] 6 months ago (70 children) | Copy Link

My experience too. And that's what i call win the battle - lose the war. Men sometimes like to demand that women would care/do something for men. I saw something as weird as "short women shouldn't have boys, because boys will be short, and it will suck for then in dating". But they fail to realize that they actually shoot their gender in the foot so to speak, way more. They teach women that sex with them isn't a pleasure. They shame women for having sex with them. And they surprised that it's hard to have sex with women, and women are even pickier than before. Where is their own empathy and strategy?

It even works on an individual level, if the guy cares about having casual isn't it better to be someone women would come to to have sex? Who would come for bad sex? Anecdotal, but good guys could be advertised among sluts and shared.

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[–]mar-uh-wah-nuh10 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Why do you fantasize about women who have casual sex being "used" by very attractive men? I've never once in my entire life been "dumped" by a man. I've never once in my life thought a casual sex relationship was (or wanted a casual sex relationship to be) anything more than casual. I've also had no problem finding long-term relationship partners who check all of my boxes and then some.

The whole notion that women who have casual sex are being "pumped and dumped," and that those women then struggle to find long-term relationships with desirable men is nothing but a revenge fantasy. It does not at all comport with my experience, nor the experiences of my friends, nor the experiences of the majority of women I know. Of course, there will always be outliers. However, what you're describing simply isn't a widespread issue in real life.

[–]Acceptable-Try-5940-4 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're a woman, you see an attractive man, he makes your vagina tingle, you sleep with him, but you know he won't stay with you, so you move on. That is your POV.

Now look at this from the POV of the attractive male, he knows he can have easy sex on command by 80% of women at any time (though the top 20% of women will refuse casual sex with him because he isn't good enough) and wants to sleep around, and you just happened to be one of the females he will use/enjoy to satisfy his urge.

Technically, if from the start you both knew it was just a casual hookup, then you were just "using" each other. This is where the "used" part comes from. You struggle to understand why this is "bad" for women from the men's POV because in your case, you only hookup with more attractive men. Men meanwhile can only hookup with women less attractive than them. Also, men do all the chasing/pursuing, which also explains the imbalance.

with desirable men is nothing but a revenge fantasy

So why are you complaining about being shamed for it? If no man alive ever discounts a woman as a potential LTR because of her sexual history, then why do you bring it up all the time? The other poster I replied to brought it out out of the blue.

Pick one, you can't whine about something but then deny that it happens at all. Either it doesn't happen, or it happens but shouldn't, so which is it???

[–]mar-uh-wah-nuh9 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, that was not my perspective. I've rejected several men who wanted to go out with me after having casual sex. During that time in my life, I did NOT want a relationship. There was nothing any man could do or say to make me want a serious relationship with him. I just wanted to have sex with attractive men who prioritized my pleasure. And I did. I also pursued men and initiated around 70-80% of the casual sex encounters I've had in my life. I go for what I want and I get what I want.

Where did I complain about being shamed by the likes of you? Please show me exactly where I did that. I'm not complaining--I'm simply pointing out that you're wrong. Some men do shame women who have causal sex, but those men have been and will always be irrelevant to me and many other women who have or have had casual sex and refuse to put up with bullshit. Simply put, your view of women who have casual sex is a revenge fantasy.

I did not struggle to find a partner. My husband is the most attractive man I've ever been with. He also had his fair share of casual sex. Most people who are sexually experienced seek out sexually experienced partners for long-term relationships.

[–]Acceptable-Try-5940-2 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

but those men have been and will always be irrelevant to me

If they're irrelevant then why complain about them so much? For example, if a fat woman complained or shamed men for being too broke, most men would laugh it off or make memes of it, as that fat woman is irrelevant to most men.

But you genuinely get upset about the promiscuity shaming done by men, could it be because some of the men that you're attracted to and would want an LTR with will reject you for your sexual history? In that case, then yes, it will sting.

It's not some men by the way, it's most. Nearly all men get an ick from learning about your promiscuous past, it's a biological reaction. Kind of similar to the ick you get when learning a man is a virgin (which I'm sure you'll deny). Women know this and lie about bodycounts because of it.

I did not struggle to find a partner.

Nobody said this by the way. I'm in my 20's, most men in their 20's aren't even dating or in relationships. A lot of us are so desperate that we'll overlook the ick we get from your sexual history and accept your regardless, simply because beggars can't be choosers.

But the choosers will likely reject you over it if they have options. Sorry.

[–]mar-uh-wah-nuh5 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not complaining. I'm debating a topic on a debate forum. Again, show me where I complained? Arguing that you are wrong is not complaining. Why do you keep suggesting that I'm complaining here?

I've never, ever struggled to date the men I wanted to date and am attracted to. I've never been asked about my body count. I've never asked anyone else about their body count. I would never even consider dating someone who cared about such things, nevermind "wanting" to date such a person.

I don't actually think a majority of men have a problem with dating women who have lived full lives, including having sexual experiences. I think many men who have not lived full lives are deeply focused on women's sexual history because they're insecure about their own lack of experience and jealous. Most women don't want those men. Why would a sexually experienced woman care about the preferences of men who they don't want? Why would any self-respecting person want to date a beggar?

That's my point. Women who have causal sex don't typically struggle to find quality partners. Men who have casual sex don't typically care about women's sexual history. People who have casual sex tend to enter into long-term relationships with eachother. Your preferences (and how you wish things worked) don't change reality.

[–]Lemon_gecko4 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]mar-uh-wah-nuh3 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Acceptable-Try-5940-1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You are complaining though, you're complaining about something that men do in the hope that men stop doing it. Either that or you're trying to imply it doesn't happen at all, in which case, why even bother?

I don't actually think a majority of men have a problem with dating women who have lived full lives

It's not about what you think. You want to think this because thinking otherwise would be acknowledging that your promiscuous past reduces your SMV, which is a tough pill to swallow. It also implies that your husband has a lower SMV because he accepted you for it.

Most women don't want those men

Most women date and marry them. Most women lie about their bodycounts when asked about it because the majority of men think this way.

Why would a sexually experienced woman care about the preferences of men who they don't want? Why would any self-respecting person want to date a beggar?

Very simple, because again, beggars can't be choosers. Two people with low SMV have no choice but to date each other.

The reason that promiscuity gives men an ick is because of several sociological and biological reasons, namely mate-guarding (males in nature often guard their females from other males) and paternity (men can't know if they're the father without DNA tests). It's hardwired into us.

Only a male with a cuckold fetish would legitimately not care at all about this.

[–]mar-uh-wah-nuh4 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not complaining. I'm debating. I'm arguing that your belief that women are "pumped and dumped" by attractive men, thus becoming undatable by desirable men is simply false. I'm debating this topic because this is a debate forum. The purpose of the forum is to debate. What about that is so difficult for you to understand? I have no personal stake in this discussion. I'm married.

I don't have to "accept" that I have a lower "SMV" because it's not true. Again, I've never struggled to date exactly the kinds of men who I want to date and am attracted to. That means I'm successful in the "sexual marketplace." You can label my "SMV" however you want to. It doesn't matter. I was able to find a man who is attractive, talented, hard-working, loving, and perfect for me. I "won" by your standards. Both men and my husband had (and still have) plenty of options. We chose eachother.

Most women, unless they to are sexually inexperienced, do not date and marrry men sexually inexperienced men. Women with self-respect do not date people who care or ask about their "body count." It's juvenile and insecure behavior in my eyes. I don't know my "body count" and I don't think about it during my daily life. I never kept a count because I never even considered doing so. You are welcome to your preferences, but that does not change the reality that sexually experienced women do not lose "SMV" and do not struggle to find high "SMV" partners. Desirable men don't care about women's sexual history as much as undesirable men do.

Mate-guarding is not a human behavior we evolved to have. We are humans capable of higher rationality than other animals. If we were simply acting on biological impulses alone, we would not have a society. Humans do not just have sex to reproduce (why else would the female orgasm exist). We are not slaves to our biology and your characterization of human biology is flawed.

[–]Acceptable-Try-59400 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You're debating it from the female POV, when that's irrelevant here. Your problem is the male POV, and since men getting the ick from promiscuity (when considering an LTR) is intrinsic, it's not something up either for debate or for change. At best, you can shame men into ignoring their own instincts and icks, but well, that's an uphill battle for you.

I don't have to "accept" that I have a lower "SMV" because it's not true.

You don't "accept" or "refuse" anything here, your SMV is strictly decided by the opposite gender. My SMV is reflected by the women I pull, and your SMV is reflected by the most attractive men that want a relationship with you.

Most women, unless they too are sexually inexperienced, do not date and marrry sexually inexperienced men.

Yes, a low bodycount in a man gives women the ick and implies he's not successful sexually. Still, just as a desperate man is willing to overlook a woman's bodycount because he knows he can't get anything better (all other things considered), women too will overlook inexperience in a man if he can provide other benefits (like stability). It's not a deal-breaker for most people, but is a huge negative.

Desirable men don't care about women's sexual history as much as undesirable men do.

For sex yes, actually they will specifically seek out promiscuous women intentionally for casual sex. LTRs however? Hell no, one of the biggest shames and fear for every man is to end up marrying the "town bicycle". No desirable man will put up with the mockery that other men give him for marrying the woman every other man has already been in/with.

Undesirable men don't have a choice, they will ignore the woman's sexual history because there's no other option.

Mate-guarding is not a human behavior we evolved to have.

Erh what? Yes it is. We've always had it.

We are humans capable of higher rationality than other animals

Evidently we don't. Otherwise misogynistic assholes wouldn't be drowning in pussy while most men starve. A lot of women know that men are treating them like trash, but because the guy mistreating them is attractive and gives their vagina tingles, they will still sleep with him. Why? Because biology overcomes rationality in women, 99% of the time.

You can't demand that men repress their natural instincts while refusing to do the same on your end. Especially in your case since you admit to having a promiscuous past which is essentially a surrender to your most innate sexual urges.

[–]mar-uh-wah-nuh3 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, I'm debating your specific claims. You do not speak for all men. I don't speak for all women. Your belief about all "men getting the ick" from women's sexual past is not broadly accepted reality. You have this belief because you adhere to a particular ideology about gender dynamics. You conceptualize dating as market system. There is nothing innate about your belief system and it is contradicted by reality. That is my point here. You get the "ick" from knowing that a woman has slept with other men. Not all men feel the same way, and sexually successful men are less likely to care about a women's sexual history than you are. You are mistaking your opinions for absolute truth when I'm providing you with a clear counterexample that challenges your worldview. If you go outside and speak to happily married people, you will find numerous other counterexamples.

If my "SMV" is decided by the other gender, than I have a high "SMV." According to your logic, when a person can date exactly the kinds of people they want to date, that means they have a high "SMV." Yet, I have also had casual sex. How do you reconsile my situation with your perception of the dating market? Why did my husband, who also has had a lot of success dating and with casual sex encounters, chose me instead of one of the many less experienced women who were/are interested in him?

I'm not discussing desperate people here. Those people are irrelevant to this discussion. I'm discussing the outcomes and behaviors of men and women who are sexually successful.

Having casual sex is not the same thing as sleeping with anyone and anything in an indiscriminate fashion (i.e., being the "town bicycle"). I did and would not just have sex with anyone. Nor would my husband. We both have standards.

Having sex with someone is not a reward for not being an asshole. Furthermore, I consider your beliefs to be precisely the kind of misogynistic views that most women take issue with. I have been lucky enough to never be mistreated by a man who I willingly gave my time and attention to. Selective and successful men and women are not willing to put up with bad behavior for the sake of sex. I certainly have never been willing to do so.

Having casual sex is not surrendering to one's "most innate sexual urges." If I had sex with every single attractive man I've ever met--including, to name a few, men who might harm me, men who I met at work, men who were disrespectful to me, men who were my professors, and men who were in relationships--that would be surrendering to my "most innate sexual urges." Normal people are not so sexually reckless.

In short, your worldview fails to account for the reality that sexually experienced people often seek out other sexually experienced people for long-term relationships. Women's casual sex history is (primarily) seen as negative by men who struggle to get laid. Men who do not struggle to have casual sex typically do not care about women's sexual history. It's understandable that men who struggle may be jealous. However, just because you cannot have sex with women doesn't mean all other men have similar problems or insecurities.

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If you're 20 then you got time to build it up. And for 2, what is that suppose to prove? Most of the comments I read said yes, and those saying no add caveats. And others

"It's pointless because there's no way to verify if she's telling the truth."

"Sadly most women are resistant and reluctant to reveal it. I think it speaks VOLUMES."

"Most guys are smart enough not to ask, especially if they do care about it. Ignorance is bliss."

"You can ask but she's either going to be offended or straight up lie."

It's funny, years ago I was told if a woman tells you her body count, take that number and multiply it by 3x to find the real number.

This year, a friend told me that method doesn't work anymore, women have caught on and always say 4-5 now, but he has the new method that hasn't been patched yet :

Ask her what's the highest bodycount she's willing to accept in a man, and then either add or subtract 3 to that number to find her bodycount, since women will only accept a bodycount similar to theirs or less.

Y'all lie so much about it that we have to come up with new methods to find the real number. The meta is crazy.

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Yes, but what's the problem? I mean, women do the same thing and all. Women literally use the word virgin as the go-to insult to anyone saying anything slightly negative about women. Then calling them hoeless, saying no bitches?, etc.

Why are you getting this emotional over it? I don't get emotional over women calling men they disagree with virgins and incels.

"standards are too high"

Uh no boo, women's standards being high is natural and makes sense.

As an average woman, it's in your right to sleep around with attractive men and get ran-thru while rejecting unattractive men while you're at your peak attractiveness.

BUT,

As an average man, it's in our right to get the ick from your history of hoeing around, and not consider you for an LTR when we're at our peak attractiveness because of it.

Both are free to do as they wish, just live with the consequences of your actions.

[–]No_Personality53811 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]No_Personality53811 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Acceptable-Try-59401 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't want any stranger to even touch me, so I refuse to deal with hookups.

Based.

Its just baffles me that men are hypocritical enough to be disgusted by woman's "hoe phase" and simultaneously targeting to fuck as many women as possible

I know, it sucks, but what do you want us to do? Tell a woman that you're a virgin or only had 1 relationship and she legit gets the ick. Women judge men heavily based on how many women we can sleep around with. Our value comes from our ability to pull according to women.

By your own logic, you as disgusting as women with high n-count

I only had casual sex once to lose virginity. All my other bodies are with women I was legitimately considering for an LTR.

But yes I do agree with you that high n-count men would make for terrible LTR partners, and that their pair-bonding is heavily damaged. So why do you keep being attracted to them?!

Women sometimes specifically seek out high n-count men, men see shit like that and it makes us want to do more casual sex too.

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[–]Acceptable-Try-5940-1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What do you mean "speak for all men"? I'm not speaking about anybody here, I'm teaching you about male biology. I'm shocked that you honestly don't know this, since I feel like most women would've at least seen some variant of the "When she drops a bit of her bop lore and now you know she isn't the one" meme, but I'm guessing you're a millennial so it's not entirely impossible that you don't know about this.

I'll let you in on some canon lore all men go through, but pretty much every young man has went through something like this where they meet a cute woman and he thinks she's the one for life, up until she feels comfortable and opens up about her sexual past, and the stories she tells disgusts the young man so much that our stomachs hurt for literal days with nausea for even longer.

I couldn't eat for days, and pretty much every guy I know has gone through something like this. And so to see you insist that this ick doesn't exist for men is genuinely laughable, like the gaslighting would work if this wasn't something almost every man has gone through (with the exception of men with cuckold fetishes, who actually get off it).

You're struggling a bit to understand this, but this ick is similar to when you're trying to date a guy, and he shows you a picture of a woman in a bikini and tells you how hot she is. Take that ick, multiply it by 100x (1000x if you have a really large body count), and that's the ick I'm trying to explain to you.

and sexually successful men are less likely to care about a women's sexual history

Hell no, why would they when they can afford to be picky? Desirable men can have their pick of the litter, so they can choose a more desirable woman.

Having casual sex is not the same thing as sleeping with anyone and anything in an indiscriminate fashion

Never implied that. For casual sex, women only do it with more attractive men, and men only do it with less attractive women. Women are very strict about who they have casual sex with.

Furthermore, I consider your beliefs to be precisely the kind of misogynistic views that most women take issue with.

Sure, if you can agree that you're a misandrist for your statement about less experienced men earlier. Or is it okay for you to say that women don't want to be with a man that gives them the ick (virgin) and not vice versa with promiscuity?

Having casual sex is not surrendering to one's "most innate sexual urges."

Bro wtf lmao, you have to be trolling at this point. Is there anything that is more of a sexual urge than to want to sleep around? I predict you will probably say that women don't want to sleep around even though you admitted that you did.

sexually experienced people often seek out other sexually experienced people for long-term relationships

Biology doesn't care about your feelings or "world views". I understand why you're denying this, admitting otherwise would be conceding that not only do you have a lower SMV, but that your husband has lower attractiveness for accepting someone with a promiscuous past (when a desirable man could choose otherwise). But like come on, this is an insane thing to be in denial of.

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[–]mar-uh-wah-nuh1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You are struggling to grasp that your opinions are not based in biology, and they are not shared by all men. Lots of men, particularly sexually successful men, don't have the same "ick" you have. Your problems and preferences are not universal.

My husband and I do show eachother pictures of hot people. Whenever we're watching a show, we will joke about which actors/characters we find to be attractive. We also sometimes talk about our most entertaining past sexual experiences in a light-hearted way. We laugh and joke about such things. It's not a big deal to either of us. Some people don't experience the same extreme sexual jealousy that you do.

Once again, I am certain my husband is a desirable man. I know I'm a desirable woman. According to your worldview, why would he chose me over one of the many less sexually experienced women who were/are interested in him?

You can call me whatever you want to call me. That's fine. I'm simply pointing out that most women view men who hold your same beliefs negatively. That might be part of your problem. Women who are virgins typically want to date/marry other virgins. A lot of women who are virgins in their mid-20s are religious and seek religious men. Women who are sexually experienced typically want to date sexually experienced men. Women who don't have casual sex typically want to date men who don't have causal sex. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule, but this is typically how things play out in practice.

As humans, we have a drive to have sex. However, people who practice safe sex and are selective in who they choose to sleep with are no more giving into their biological urge to have sex than a person who has sex in the context of a committed relationship. Casual sex can be an enjoyable and healthy activity for both parties. Who is giving into their "most innate sexual urges" more, a person who has well-planned, safe causal sex, or a person who pressures their spouse/partner to have sex when they don't want to?

Your opinions, beliefs, and preferences are not biology. They are opinions. Many sexually experienced men do not care about women's sexual history and have no desire to date sexually inexperienced women.

[–]Acceptable-Try-59400 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Who are these "lots of men", and how can you possibly know them? Genuinely, as a woman, how could you possibly know that the man legitimately doesn't get the ick?

If he does get it, you won't even know since most guys are nice enough to not drop you immediately over it. Most men are told to just "enjoy her while you still have her, and move on to the next after" when they learn about bop lore. So how are you certain men don't get this ick?

don't have the same "ick" you have.

Most icks aren't social, they're biological. They don't care about your opinions. Especially icks that stem from evolution and not just social stigma.

Women want tall, good looking, men that are rich, confident, with status, that will lead them. <- your biological calling.

Men want hot, young, fertile women, that are feminine and loyal to them. <- men's biological calling.

Not every man and woman will get all those things, but these are the base biological urges 99% of people have. There are exceptions of course, like pedophiles who prefer pre-pubescent females, but these are rare.

My husband and I do show eachother pictures of hot people.

Notice I explicitly said date? If you're dating a man and he shows you the other women he's looking at, especially if it's like IG models, you will get the ick. Take that ick, 1000x it, that's the ick we get from hearing about your past.

Once again, I am certain my husband is a desirable man.

The only thing making me think otherwise is your consistent denial of men's biology. It makes me feel like you're doing this to protect your man since it's a huge minus on him that he had to settle.

I'm not the ideal man either, still I wouldn't want my girlfriend denying something basic just because it makes her look bad by proxy if I had to settle for her.

Some people don't experience the same sexual jealousy that you do

Some yes, but an irrelevant minority. I know cuck fetishists legitimately get off to stories and fan fics about their wives being promiscuous in the past, so I won't say 100% of men.

with are no more giving into their biological urge to have sex than a person who has sex in the context of a committed relationship

Uh what??? Yes they fucking are, sexual urges are rarely ever reserved for one person (some crazy limerence), most people get aroused when they see hot people. Those are sexual urges, and when you act on them, then yes, YOU'RE SURRENDERING TO THEM.

It's not just women, most men get boners whenever they see a hot chick, if we were sleeping around rather than staying in an LTR, then we'd be letting our base sexual urges control us.

Your opinions, beliefs, and preferences are not biology.

I gave you the evolutionary biology that explains why men are disgusted by promiscuity, namely that paternity cannot be determined by men, so women who sleep around are extremely dangerous for a man seeking to devote his resources to his offspring.

You retorted with "N-n-no i don't like ur shaming of promiscuous women!!!" and provided no counter argument explaining why the above explanation is wrong.

[–]mar-uh-wah-nuh1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Because I have male friends and have dated men. I've had frank conversations with sexually successful men about this particular subject. Also, because I receive a lot of male attention and, when I was single, no one ever asked me about my body count or rejected me for that reason (or any reason, honestly). I've never been broken up with.

There is nothing biologically determinative about desiring rich, tall men with status. Money is a social construct. Before countries were more diverse, most men within a given area used to be around the same height. Furthermore, many, many people date outside of these primarily socially proscribed preferences. There are no "biological callings." Biology just exists. Yes, our biology influences some (but not all) dating preferences on a population level. However, as humans, we are not slaves to our biology. Nor do we all have the same biology. All humans do not have the same biological influences on their preferences to the same degree. Humans, generally, prefer young, healthy, and attractive people who show strong fertility markers. That, however, is not where attraction begins or ends. Nor does a woman's sexual history have any bearing on those core traits.

I have never dated a man who gave me the "ick" by doing something like that. I'm not a very jealous person in general.

You can believe what you want to believe. My husband was just asked out by a random waitress last week, which is not at all an unusual occurrence for him. And, if your perception of value is based on a man's ability to have casual sex, he's never had problems in that arena either. You just don't like that my life and relationship does not fit into your worldview.

My husband does not have a cuck fetish. However, since you acknowledge the existence of different sexual preferences among men, can you acknowledge that some men don't care about women's sexual history without having a cuck fetish?

Your opinions on sex differ dramatically from my own. I don't view having casual sex as "less dignified" than sex in the context of a relationship. It seems like you do, which may play a role in your opinions about women who have casual sex.

I have provided numerous explanations as to why you are wrong. You are engaging in biological reductionism. You cannot explain complex human behavior on the basis of biology alone, nor have you offered any evidence that the factors you think influence male preferenes actually do influence human male preferences. My lived experience and interactions with men run counter to your biological reductivist arguments.

[–]Acceptable-Try-59401 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I've literally never told a woman that I got an ick from her body count, neither my previous partners nor my female friends (who on average actually have high body counts). Why would any man hurt you/shame you on the spot by telling you he got an ick from your body count?

This is why I'm saying you will never know if the man you're with got the ick, since if he's emotionally intelligent, he will actually gauge it on his own without asking directly and then make a decision by himself on it. Whether he's ok with it or not, he'll still stay with you for a while, but it's possible he has scratched you off the marriage/LTR list because of it.

There is nothing biologically determinative about desiring rich, tall men with status.

Well, thanks. I was worried you'd single out our ick for promiscuity as not being biologically-driven, since it's not that dominant of a trait (compared to for example, wanting younger, hotter, fertile women). But now that you've brushed off other major biological instincts (such as females seeking males with resources for their offspring), I know you don't understand reproductive instincts at all.

Of course many people date outside those preferences, not all men are tall, rich, and confident, and not all women are young, hot, and feminine, so obviously you have to make compromises. In the dating market, you can only demand as much as you offer (aka your SMV).

we are not slaves to our biology

See, this would've meant something had you not been the perfect example of someone who followed their biology (slept around).

Our biology makes us want to sleep around with attractive members of the opposite sex, nothing beats the feeling of sex with a hot person.

Some men and women overpower their biology, and live their lives based on principles and not hormones. For example, a 21 year old attractive Christian woman, who turns down hot male models because she knows they only want casual sex and she only wants an LTR.

Her body wants her to sleep around, but her mind wants her to save herself for something special. Meanwhile most women will get the biological urge to sleep around in their early 20's, and only "settle down" in their late 20's and early 30's. That's you?

Same goes for men by the way, all the good looking men that I know are sleeping around, they're just following their biology.

Very few individuals alive are not slaves to their biology (many autists). Based on what you said, you're not one of them.

My husband does not have a cuck fetish.

Probably not. To be fair, my first girlfriend had a much higher body count than me, but I was still 100% willing to marry her. I had low self-esteem back then, but not a cuck fetish.

Your opinions on sex differ dramatically from my own.

They probably don't. Nobody said anything about sex by the way, remember promiscuity is having had multiple partners. You can have slept thousands of times with the same guy and nobody would ever get the ick from that (or call you a hoe). But sleep once with 10 different guys...

You cannot explain complex human behavior on the basis of biology alone

I actually can, I've very rarely seen anybody (certainly never a woman) go against what their biology was telling them. So why do men still wife up promiscuous women? Because the prime imperative remains, reproduce at all costs. If you're a former hoe and your man can't do any better, then his biology will tell him to ignore your past and choose you anyway.

[–]mar-uh-wah-nuh1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It would not hurt my feelings. No one knows my "body count" (even me). The friends who I've spoke with about this subject have only known me since I started dating my now husband. They have no clear notion of my sexual history. I've discussed this topic with respect to their own dating lives and what they look for in a long-term partner. I spoke with one close friend about this subject specifically in the context of matchmaking. Overwhelmingly, my more sexually experienced friends (who have frequent casual relationships) have expressed that they would feel uncomfortable seriously dating a woman who has little sexual/dating experience. In particular, my close friend, who I wanted to set up with a woman in my social circle, noted that he was not interested in her because she was not very social and did not seem like his type sexually (i.e., she did not seem like a very sexually experienced person, which was/is true).

Once again, I have never been broken up with or rejected. I know I am lucky in this regard and my perspective is limited for this reason. Still, based on my experience never being broken up with by a man, it's safe to assume my sexual history did not "disqualify" me for the relationships I wanted and the wonderful marriage I now have.

No "icks" are biologically driven in their entirety. That's not how human biology works.

The way you described sexual "restraint" in your example definitively proves that we have diametrically opposed opinions about sex. Sex is not special. I don't think sex makes people dirty. I don't think puritanical, religious-based abstention from sex is a virtue to be celebrated. I don't place any moral value on having sex or not having sex. And, no, that's not me. I actually "settled down" in my early twenties. I know you assume I'm a millennial but I'm actually an old Gen Z. It's also funny that you assume that I'm not autistic. I am on PDD after all.

You can beleive what you want to beleive, my friend. By every pop evo-psych TRP metric I receive the "virgin" treatment from men. Why? Because reality does not conform to your belief system. You don't have to trust me, but I have no doubts about my value as a partner and my husband's sincere attraction to me and love for me. I am 1000% certain neither of us "settled" as you say, and he tells me how special I am to him everyday. I know you are trying to knock me down a peg, but, unfortunately, my real world experience runs contrary to your dogmatic assumptions. The truth is that the nature v. nurture debate is settled--it's both. You have no evidence that your indivdual preference is applicable to men as a whole.

[–]Acceptable-Try-59401 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Hard to believe it wouldn't hurt your feelings, when the overwhelming majority of women with high N-counts either lie about it or get super mad when questioned because they know what's coming if they say the real number (being rejected for an LTR).

Still though, no sensible man with an iota of emotional intelligence would shame you on the spot for it. It's kind of like a man telling a woman he's a virgin, on the spot she'll pretend like it doesn't matter and that she's cool with it, but later she'll judge him for it and be icked out by it.

it's safe to assume my sexual history did not "disqualify" me for the relationships I wanted

Never said it would, just that it's a minus on your record. I don't know you, so you could be perfect in every other regard, so it would be easy for the man to overlook it. Or you stumbled into a man with low self-esteem on the first relationship you've decided you wanted an LTR out of. Only you know the truth.

Like I said previously, sex doesn't make people dirty, sleeping around does.

Listen, I wasn't trying to insult you, I legitimately don't know you or your husband, and I don't make assertions without being 100% certain of them. But it strongly felt like you were denying that promiscuity is a minus for men in general. It is, but it's not the end of the world. I have several minuses myself that subtract from my SMV, I can't be delusional and pretend they don't exist just to boost myself or make my partner seem more picky.

This really goes back to the gender wars, once again, women's preferences are celebrated, and men's are shamed or outright denied. But you can't fight biology, most people can't.

[–]pie-mart2 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Acceptable-Try-59400 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No I'm not, sometimes women from the start decide they only want a hookup and intentionally choose someone out of their league for the one-off casual sex. Other times, they DO want a relationship with a more attractive male, and present themselves as a hookup in the hopes of changing his mind later. This difference is irrelevant here.

You are outright shaming women for having a casual sex

I'm not shaming you for anything. Geez, do you see me accusing you of shaming men for being virgins? I know that you don't do it intentionally, virgins simply give you the ick and I get that. Why is it so hard for you to understand that promiscuous women give us the same ick?

This is like accusing women of shaming shorter men when they say they want a taller guy than them. It's an innate preference.

A guy who sees me having sex as a humiliating thing for me?

This is insane, where did I ever say that having sex was a humiliating thing for you???

You could have sex 10,000 times with 1 guy, and sex once with 10 guys, and I assure you every man would be perfectly okay with you having the sex 10,000 times since it was 1 guy, while your 10 hookups with those 10 guys will give most men the ick.

It's not the sex that disgusts men, it's the promiscuity. It's a hardwired biological phenomena for males since men can't know if their children are theirs or not, so we've evolved to be disgusted by promiscuous women since paternity is less certain with them.

You can't argue with nature. It's the same nature that makes you more attracted to taller, richer, more confident men. And yet you won't see me whine about women wanting all those things.

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[–]Acceptable-Try-59401 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

studies consistently show both men and women prefer partners with low to moderate N counts.

This is true for when people settle down. Men being impressed by male sluts is irrelevant, ultimately if women judged men for having high N counts, then that would disincentivize men from sleeping around.

Women don't, and to the opposite...

whereas a number of women may just be overlooking their promiscuity given other factors. The same way many men may overlook promiscuity in a beautiful woman.

I actually agree and almost did this.

Mind you, instead of arguing that N count doesn't matter that much to most men nowadays, the women replying to me are saying it doesn't matter to us at all, which is objectively a lie.

This is what happens when you get too insecure about your sexual history, quite greedy to claim men don't care at all, when I would've conceded that most men would overlook a high N count if they were with a beautiful woman, therefore minimizing its impact.

I feel like most women know inherently that their promiscuity was a mistake, and most probably regret it after marrying their husband, even if they never admit it.

[–]SleepyPoemsin20202 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Women don't

But many do. Preferring low to moderate N partners means they're judging high N men negatively. Terms like "community dick" and "second-hand-man" don't come about through lack of judgment. One study I believe from 2023 even indicated that male promiscuity is viewed less positively than female promiscuity in the context of short term relationships.

I feel like most women know inherently that their promiscuity was a mistake, and most probably regret it after marrying their husband, even if they never admit it.

Some will, some won't. I've personally not seen anything to indicate that any significant number of promiscuous women regret their promiscuity. You seem to be projecting your feelings onto them.

Mind you, instead of arguing that N count doesn't matter that much to most men nowadays, the women replying to me are saying it doesn't matter to us at all, which is objectively a lie.

Depends on the man. But as I just noted that most studies show women and men prefer low to moderate N partners, I'm obviously acknowledging that N count matters to many men. So I don't know why you're responding to me with this.

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[–]Acceptable-Try-59400 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But the nice guys we are talking about aren't the same

Of course not, for me, as soon as someone does something manipulative to get into a relationship, they're not a "good or nice guy" anymore. I don't consider the unattractive manipulative men to be nice guys even if that's what they call themselves.

Women like nice guys

No, you like attractive nice guys*. Unattractive nice guys don't exist sexually to you.

If all you have to offer is "not being a jerk"

Way to downplay good men.

Like god forbid we want a guy doing more than jjst not abusing or manipulating us.

Who's forbidding you from wanting that? We know you want attractive nice guys, it would be a dream for most women.

The problem is, you ONLY want an attractive nice guy, and since 80% of men are unattractive to the average woman, that makes finding a partner for men nearly impossible. The easiest solution for most men is to become manipulative.

[–]pie-mart2 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Acceptable-Try-59401 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pie-mart2 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I didn't date them. When I was a teen I felt guilted into giving them a chance cuz people called me stuck up and shallow for not giving guys a chance cuz they might be nice.

Low and behold these guys were not nice. And I only saw them once.

There is a lot of shame put on women for rejecting men we don't find attractive and the term "they might be nice thoimugh" is often used to shame us into accepting dates from men we would rather not date.

Again. Being nice is the bare minimum. I want a nice guy. But you have to go on a date to see if the guy is nice or not. It isn't something you magically know about a man. Or any person. We have to give a chance to someone to see and be able to assess niceness

But we are expected to give every man who shows interest in us a chance based on the possibility they might be nice.

And just because some of these guys end up being jerks doesn't mean I like jerks. Because once I find out they are assholes I stop seeing them.

People don't know people's heart and intentions right off the back. It takes time to figure out their motives

[–]Acceptable-Try-59401 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Genuine question, from your POV, who shames women for rejecting men that you deem unattractive? Is it men, other women? If it's men, they why do you care about what men think? If it's other women, can you think of concrete examples of other women telling you to date unattractive men if they're nice?

You being a teen the last time you gave someone a chance without manipulation by the male adds to my point.

But we are expected to give every man who shows interest in us a chance based on the possibility they might be nice.

The dating is the chance, you use the dating phase to gauge and determine if they're truly nice, or being manipulative. Manipulative men usually want sex very early on, or use some mind game that is easily recognizable (like breadcrumbing, or push and pull).

I'm not trying to shame you into dating unattractive good men here, I frankly consider it impossible for women to do this without force, you'd have to be going against your biological urges. My original point is that unattractive good men can't get into relationships because women don't give them a real chance. Male manipulators can get a chance if they play it right.

[–]pie-mart2 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It is 100% men. Women always understand me when I express i don't wanna go out with a guy. They just get it. It is men who constantly shame us for wanting a man we find attractive. And calling us shallow for it. Then we are expected to give guys a chance but then if we give the wrong guy a chance we are told its our fault for choosing the wrong guy yet we are constantly shamed for not giving every guy a chance. Then guys shame women for having a low libido with their bf or husband yet shamed her into going out with people she doesn't find physically attractive cuz he "might be nice"

Like, why us it so wrong that I want to date a man i want to have sex with, who i get along with and who is kind to me? Like why do yall get so pressed when we desire men we wanna have sex with

But then shame us for being the cause of dead bedrooms in relationships despite yall telling us we suck if we desire a man we are attracted to

Like if I get in a relationship with someone im not attracted to and stop having sex with him, yall will get mad at me

But if I choose not to date him, im shallow?

[–]Acceptable-Try-59400 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Why do you care though if it's men shaming you for it? Men also shame women for sleeping around, and I don't see that deterring any woman from sleeping around. The women who do want casual sex do it, and those who don't, don't.

Like, why us it so wrong that I want to date a man i want to have sex with, who i get along with and who is kind to me?

That's all women hon, actually, all human beings.

You don't have to explain to me why you don't want to date unattractive nice guys, I perfectly understand that and don't try to change it. For us men, the majority of women are attractive, so few of us understand how hard it is to date someone you're not attracted. (it is hard, I don't blame you).

I think what really bothers unattractive nice guys is seeing unattractive bad guys actually do get chances with the proper manipulation. That is actively something I do wish women did all the time, reject unattractive but manipulative men.

A lot of nice guys see this and start realizing that being a bad person (according to our morals) is the only way to get a relationship, since women will never give unattractive nice guys a chance. This is bad for society.

[–]pie-mart2 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Acceptable-Try-59401 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, you're shamed for not giving nice guys a chance, and you're shamed for giving manipulative guys a chance. I don't do the former, but I do the latter, they're completely different.

But it is ridiculous for men to beg women give them a chance when from our past experiences we will be shamed for it

Who shamed you for giving a good guy a chance? Stop mixing the two up, a lot of women will be manipulated into having sex with an unattractive guy, and instead of admitting that they got played, they'll instead claim "we gave a chance to the nice guy and look how he treated us!".

Hon no, manipulation is a must for any unattractive man that wants to sleep with a woman.

What happened to women's intuition? Is that hard for you to gauge if a guy is being manipulative? Mind games like breadcrumbing, hot and cold, push and pull, etc are very easy to spot.

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[–]IgorXYMan, late 20s, gender warmonger [score hidden] 6 months ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]kmb218Blue Pill Woman[🍰] [score hidden] 6 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

So because men you chose to sleep with quickly did not care about your pleasure you made a conclusion that it is all men trait.

Nope, I did not make this conclusion. It’s not an all men trait which is why I keep dating and sleeping with men, I just make them jump through more hoops because that effectively filters out the selfish men. Most men do not initiate sex on the first date, the ones that do usually have a lot of options or less interest (you are replacable for them).

Truth is, qualities that makes a man attractive are correlated with egoism and little to no concern of others.

Speak for yourself. Egoism makes me lose attraction quickly.

You created that system, drew wrong conclusions and unable to reflect to make a better system, because god forbid a girl take some responsibility, easier to say men suck.

Nope. I never slept with a man from a “cold approach”. I also never said men suck, you are projecting.

[–]IgorXYMan, late 20s, gender warmonger [score hidden] 6 months ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]kmb218Blue Pill Woman[🍰] [score hidden] 6 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Weren't you the one who could not get a man who you are attracted to to be attracted to you?

Yes, many men I am attracted to do not feel the same for me. That does not mean opportunities for dating never arise, they are just more rare.

"Making jump through hoops", damn, I guess this is the point OP makes. Hard to imagine dating where you want to create artificial barriers and see how contestants react. Must be fun.

It is fun. If my options are (A): Sleep with men on the first date but get shitty unpleasurable sex that is not worth it OR (B): Wait a few dates and see how much effort he puts in which effectively filters out the low effort semi-interested selfish dudes - and then I get to have great sex. Then yes, of course I am choosing the second option.

Having shitty sex over and over sounds really dumb. Is it something you are doing?

See? Lose. It has to be there first. And it was most likely achieved through egoistic traits.

Can you name egoistical traits that you think make me attracted to someone? Being good looking or good at flirting is not egoistical.

there’s a 70% chance he will be selfish in bed and porn-brained

I also never said men suck, you are projecting.

I did not say 70% of men are selfish and porn-brained, I said 70% of the men I slept with “easily” were selfish and porn brained. Big difference.

[–]IgorXYMan, late 20s, gender warmonger [score hidden] 6 months ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Do you mind sharing how many opportunities you had and how often they arise?

Why not find a good guy that you connect fast and have great sex? There are many men who don't mind waiting, they have many girls they "date" and making it a challenge sometimes makes them more interested to see it to the end. Well, whatever works for you.

I only had one bad sex experience ever, not that I have that many partners, to be fair.

Good at flirting require some degree of boundary crossing, which, even if it was ok with you, could be not ok to other women, so if one does it they are willing to do it for their own agenda, well it is egoistical, isn't it?

I said 70% of the men I slept with “easily” were selfish and porn brained. Big difference.

You did not say "I slept with". Read again your own comment.

So yeah, when you realize that if you sleep with a man, there’s a 70% chance he will be selfish in bed and porn-brained, you become way more picky and think twice before sleeping with someone.

Who is you here?

[–]kmb218Blue Pill Woman[🍰] [score hidden] 6 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Do you mind sharing how many opportunities you had and how often they arise?

Mutual interest in casual sex - once per year, rarely 2x per year. Mutual interest in a relationship - has not happened once in the last four years I’ve been single.

Why not find a good guy that you connect fast and have great sex? There are many men who don't mind waiting, they have many girls they "date" and making it a challenge sometimes makes them more interested to see it to the end. Well, whatever works for you.

I don’t want to have sex with a man who has many girls they date, even with casual sex I prefer exclusivity (crazy, I know). Also fast and good sex would be nice, but my whole point that usually men who initiate sex early are selfish in bed.

I only had one bad sex experience ever, not that I have that many partners, to be fair.

You are a man, so you are dealing with something completely different.

Good at flirting require some degree of boundary crossing, which, even if it was ok with you, could be not ok to other women, so if one does it they are willing to do it for their own agenda, well it is egoistical, isn't it?

Good flirting involves starting from tiny moves, carefully observing how the other person reacts and then increasing the intensity according to their reactions. So yeah, good flirting requires a lot of attunement to the other person. Noone has to cross boundaries.

This whole logic of someone being egoistical and “bad” because they respecfully make their move while taking the person’s feelings into consideration and respecting a “no” is stupid. We could even apply this to friendships. Am I egoistical and bad because I asked a girls number because I found her nice on a social event? Am I egoistical and bad because I asked her to hang out and then we became friends? This view is so autistic. You cannot live your life without ever inconveniencing a single person. Are you also bad and egoistical if you don’t approach someone who wants you to approach them? I mean in this case you are inconveniencing them too.

How is you here?

Just add “easily” before sleep.

[–]IgorXYMan, late 20s, gender warmonger [score hidden] 6 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kmb218Blue Pill Woman[🍰] [score hidden] 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

3/5 were bad.

Oh, they lie about seeing other people.

Sure, I can go through life assuming everyone around me is lying, but I don’t choose to. If you have a partner, do you assume they are constantly cheating on you and lying about it? I date men who I have mutual friends with such that there is less chance of lying, but of course there will always be this chance.

Then why did you ask me about bad sex?

You seemed to imply it would be better if I just had bad sex over and over again. So I asked if that’s something you are doing.

It's not a binary logic. Just because someone is flirting does not mean they are a bad person. But chances are higher, because if a person was deeply concerned about comfort of others, they would not have flirted.

I think caring so much about someone being very mildly annoyed for like 5 seconds is a mental illness rather than being a good person.

[–]Lemon_geckoChanging pills based on my mood Woman [score hidden] 6 months ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]IgorXYMan, late 20s, gender warmonger [score hidden] 6 months ago (17 children) | Copy Link

The difference between 0 and more than 0 is pretty significant, don't you think? And a guy B will hit on coworkers, married women, in gyms, in churches, no rules. He will insist on inviting himself over and spending the night. I swear how many times I heard stories rom my friends about those pushy guys, yet they get results.

Confidence is borderline delusional egoism. If you confident that every women must feel lucky to get your attention, you are probably also confident that you are a sex god with dick that grant wishes. Do you think it helps?

Do you think all guys that you slept with were attracted to you specifically so they did not want to lose the chance with you? Or you were in the righf place in the right time and could have been any other girl instead? I don't want to be rude, I am sure you are very nice and special, it's just that I understand how guys think. Especially players.

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[–]Acceptable-Try-5940both genders suck pill [score hidden] 6 months ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Manipulation won’t help you much unless you’re already attractive.

False 1000x.

This is the point we're trying to make to you, manipulation is legitimately the only way for most men to get a gf nowadays. All the fucking stupid shit like hot and cold, breadcrumbing, push and pull, etc.

I regret all the time I lost believing that manipulation doesn't work, and that one woman, any woman, would give me a chance eventually without me sacrificing my morals with manipulation or stupid mind games.

Nope, learned the game and everything turned upside down.

For a while, I was mad at women for rewarding men that manipulated them with sex, the typical nice guy whining. Then I got over it, you were simply responding to your biology and I had to play the game too.

normal, non-manipulative men date all the time

Physically attractive men yes.

The average man is unattractive to the average woman, our fate was always to get "Thank you for the dinner yesterday! You were super nice and I appreciated everything, but I didn't feel a spark/the chemistry/a connection. Sorry and good luck!" after every 1st date.

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If you let those negative experiences happen to you, that’s on you.

Is anything that happens to you your own fault? Should you take accountability for being robbed? Or raped? Or lied to? Or cheated on? So would you say nothing bad that I do to another person is ever my fault? It is their fault instead for “letting it happen”?

He probably made it clear that he was going to do that. Yet you ignored it and still wanted to be with him like that. That’s on you.

No, that was not the case. A guy choked me without warning and without asking for consent. He did not make it clear he is going to do that and I did not “let it happen” (I pushed his hands away and left), yet it still happened because I was not expecting it. Same with someone slapping my ass or doing things that I have previously explicitly said no to. None of the guys made it clear they were going to do that. They acted normal.

[–]WebNew9978Black Pill Man [score hidden] 6 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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So if you are robbed, you should go to prison and the robber should be let free?

No the robber should still go to prison since they are the one who committed the crime. But would I have fault if I was going to an area where robbery happens often and didn’t prepare myself? Or if I was flashing my expensive stuff out there for everybody to see? Then yeah I would.

Also, if you say that being in a situation where x crime / bad thing could happen to you with a non-zero probability means it’s your own fault. Then all bad things that ever happen to you are your own fault. Even when you take all precautions, sometimes you just get unlucky.

That’s why you have to be prepared for any possible thing.

Should women just stop dating men alltogether because for each man, there is a non-zero risk he will start choking her without consent and there is also a non-zero chance of domestic violence?

Women are already stopping themselves from dating men anyway because they assume the men they meet will do those things to them.

There’s a difference between consensual negative sex experience with someone and being sexually assaulted. The minute he started choking you without his consent, you were being sexually assaulted and all of the blame goes to him for that. But if you both had consensual sex and his only purpose was to please himself and not you, then yeah I’m gonna put some of the fault on you for letting that happen.

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No ive mentioned at various points, as long as the women like the men.

As long as the women "like the men" they are obligated to indulge him sexually??

Some ditch and berate men cuz apparently their game is low, like seriously bruh.

Yes, social skills are considered a form of competency. If women don't find his "game" appealing she shouldn't be obliged to fuck him anyway.

What are you really trying to say here? Women should only be allowed to reject men for reasons you personally approve of??

I didn't mean that. I meant equality between men and women assuming women are behind us, you well know that.

No, I don't "know that," and that would be equality. I think hot young men should be obligated to sexually satisfy me because sex is a "necessary pillar" 🙄

You cant force straight people to be gay. Wtf

You can't oblige anyone to have sex with people they don't want to. If a woman wants to have sex with a guy, then she'd already be fucking him. So again I'm not really sure who the target of your diatribe about "equality" and "sexual pillars" is for

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because sexlessness in men leads to higher rates of mental illnesses in said men. Rates of sexlessness in men is increasing fast, i.e. you are getting people like myself and OP because we can't get sex and you can't help but laugh at "sad cause pp no wet." Like, everything must pass through the lens of a woman apparently, problems don't exist unless a woman says they do.

What you really REALLY want, like many women in this thread, is for someone to say we should force women to have sex and you can mumble to yourself about hand maids tale or whatever the fuck. I know this to be true because many women here, you included, don't challenge the assertion that it is too difficult, you simply want to move two steps ahead and get to the solutions. News flash, there is no solution. And there will never be one. An easy inference you can make from (A) Men are being more sexless and (B) there is no change in the amount of men that want to have sex is, that (C) Sex is becoming more difficult to obtain for men which is self-explanatory as a problem in it of itself. The problem will continue to spiral out of control meanwhile we are stuck here arguing whether or not it is a problem at all.

[–]cb8585b2 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

because sexlessness in men leads to higher rates of mental illnesses in said men. Rates of sexlessness in men is increasing fast, i.e. you are getting people like myself and OP because we can't get sex and you can't help but laugh at "sad cause pp no wet." Like, everything must pass through the lens of a woman apparently, problems don't exist unless a woman says they do.

Who is laughing, this isn’t actually something I spend any time thinking about in real life. You commenced a hissy fit when I said yall are sad because you can’t get laid when you are just babbling the same thing.

What you really REALLY want, like many women in this thread, is for someone to say we should force women to have sex and you can mumble to yourself about hand maids tale or whatever the fuck.

Nope I asked a very simple question:

you included, don't challenge the assertion that it is too difficult

Why shouldn’t it be difficult?

Is your answer really just it makes men sad? Fair enough.

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I didn't say it doesn't exist, but there's a difference in interest: men want it, women don't, so the former complain about its absence. Fuckboys are guys who also manipulate women by promising romantic dates just to sleep with them. And others simply pay. Men who are still virgins in their 30s, I'd say, have to try harder, and they're probably the type who don't approach women. On the other hand, you've seen the first ones I mentioned, how they even manipulate women. But personally, I think every man can attract women, and if not, you can simply pay. I say all this based on intuition, but I'd have to know each case individually. Many romantic relationships start in high school. Basically, if you're a guy who doesn't talk much in high school, it's very likely you haven't had a girlfriend, and then you'll find it hard to interact with women because you simply lack practice. As a teenager, you care much less about messing things up.

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then it's up to them to make it more desirable for women.

That was the case until the sexual revolution and eventual introduction of social media and online dating. Women have had their egos inflated to the point that most of them will end up alone or feeling as if they "settled" for a man who is either their SMV match, or maybe even better than her SMV but not quite "Chad". Chad-lite. Women want the freedom to fuck any and every man they want without the accountability and responsibilities that come with said freedom. Men were given freedom in the past because they understood that when war had to be waged, they were the ones to take the mantle and risk their lives. For most of history, common people weren't allowed to vote at all and lived in serfdoms, not some twisted world where all men live like kings and all women are slaves to those men. Women are not capable of appreciating the sacrifices that men make because "that's just the way it is". Women won't say that men having to unwillingly die in wars is a bad thing because it benefits women. It just goes to show that women only care about themselves.

[–]United_Donkey8368Purple Pill Woman [score hidden] 6 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Women want the freedom to sleep with any man they want without the responsibility and obligations that come with that freedom. Most women aren't even interested in casual sex, what are you talking about? It's you who are interested, and that's why this forum exists in the first place. Throughout history, men have gone to wars that men themselves created. And the right to vote wasn't for poor people, it was for rich people, and even among those rich people, only men could vote. Women were excluded from voting regardless of their economic status.

Europe (18th-19th centuries): In many countries, only men who paid a certain amount of taxes or owned land could vote.

United States: Initially, in several states, only white, property-owning, and wealthy men could vote. Over time, these economic requirements were eliminated.

Latin America: After independence, many countries only allowed men with property, education, or a minimum income to vote.

Of course we appreciate the sacrifices made by men, where did you get that idea? In wars, men and women have died, and women have also been raped and abused in wars, or sexually enslaved. In wars, nobody wins.

[–]mrbonee69Red Pill Man [score hidden] 6 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]United_Donkey83683 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Give me evidence of that?

Because I'm a woman, I hang out with women, and statistically I can tell you that's not true. Even these handsome guys have to convince women of their attraction in most cases; many of them try it with us, and it's simply annoying. Besides, whether it's Chad or not, it won't change the fact that there's no benefit to doing it.

The only benefit of being handsome is that women will notice you before others and will be interested in you romantically and in your attention, but for us, it's not sexual.

Women in general don't get aroused by men, and we don't see sex as something to satisfy lust because in most cases it doesn't.

But lesbians, for example, do; they are aroused by the female group and are satisfied by sex with each other.

So I ask you, what evidence do you have that women like casual sex with handsome men and we're just playing innocent?

[–]Dependent-Tailor73663 points 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]United_Donkey83681 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Arousal in men and women is different. I think statistics can show this; you just need to look for a forum that asks, "Do women get aroused when they see attractive men?" but don't search for "Women are more sexually attracted to attractive men" because many women confuse platonic and romantic attraction with sexual attraction (the desire to have sex or think about sex with a person), and this happens because women, in general, simply don't feel the former.

Also, many of the women who are on casual sex dating apps are just looking for attention. Then, usually, once they've had it, they stop talking to the person. It's like men, but with sex. In fact, there's a video out there of a guy named Clav, who was complaining about this, and he's quite handsome. He said that he never got to the point of actually going on a date, or that when he did, they always made excuses not to go, or something like that. You can look at this if you want:

https://www.demographic-research.org/articles/volume/30/46/

https://www.nature.com/articles/nn1208?utm_source=chatgpt.com

https://www.elsevier.es/es-revista-revista-internacional-andrologia-262-articulo-relacion-entre-excitacion-sexual-subjetiva-S1698031X18300220?utm_source=chatgpt.com

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It's not that she is intentionally seeking out men who are selfish/unskilled and specifically picking them.

The issue is that many women might claim they want a "good/kind man", but the characteristics they use to select men either have nothing whatsoever to do with being good/kind (like height, facial features, pays for things for her) or are inversely correlated with being good/kind (arrogance, power, dark triad stuff, "masculine frame", etc). They claim they want good/kind men, but make no attempt of actually finding one, and actually discards good/kind men when they find one in favour of more attractive/higher status men that aren't kind.

In the case of the commenter above, throughout her life she (like any woman of at least modest attractiveness) has had ample opportunity to have sex with men who are good/selfless in bed, just by function of how many men of all kinds were interested. And yet she has consistently, throughout her entire life, managed to avoid every single one of them, and all the ones she did pick were the bad ones. Whatever criteria she uses to decide who to sleep with is vetting out the good men, and inadvertently selecting the bad ones specifically.

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Being tall, muscular, and with good facial features has correlation with being attractive.

Irrelevant. The commenter above was talking about how she wants men that are not selfish and that are skilled at sex (not just attractive). Those things I listed have nothing whatsoever to do with that, the things she said she wanted.

Woman want hook ups with attractive men.

Yet here you women are complaining that the "attractive" men you hooked up with all sucked at sex. You are shotting yourselves in the foot with useless selection criteria, and then making comments on reddit as if the small handful of men you picked were representative of all men.

An ugly man that is kind?

Nobody is talking about ugly men.

You understand that attractiveness is a spectrum, not a binary "either an ugly monster or a greek god", right? Being average height but less than 6 feet tall doesn't make someone ugly. Being a healthy BMI but not being muscular doesn't make someone ugly.

I’m asexual. I don’t choose any men.

Then I'm sorry to say you don't have anything to contribute to this conversation, because no men (who isn't also asexual) will choose you either.

[–]Dependent-Tailor73661 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]vanebader-20481 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

A person either passes another person’s attractiveness rating or they don’t.

Correct.

The idea that someone needs to, for example, be over 6 feet tall to pass the threshold is ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as it would be for men to say that a woman needs to have at least D cups to be attractive. Complete lunacy. Holding nonsense standards like these has nothing whatsoever to do with actual attractiveness.

They are either attractive or ugly by that persons standards.

Completely wrong. Who is attractive to me personally is also a spectrum. Some people are very ugly to me. Some people are only a bit ugly. Some people are average. Some people are a bit attractive. Some are very attractive. And anything in between.

There is no value in picking a man that is below that criteria.

This argument falls apart when the criteria is nonsensical like "must be over 6 feet tall to be attractive" or "must have D cups or larger to be attractive".

They won’t be any better because they have no incentive to be.

Not everyone in the world are selfish sociopaths. When I was single and had casual sex with someone I was never going to see again, I absolutely still wanted her to have a good experience. As did everyone in my social circle. It's utterly bizarre that you somehow convinced yourself that the entire world is like this.

I don’t want any man asexual or otherwise to want me.

Then what makes you think your input has any value on a conversation about sex? As an asexual person, your opinions on sex are worth jack squat to us allosexuals.

[–]Axis_Control1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]vanebader-20481 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, that is not what black pill means. Black pill means your fate was decided by genetics the moment you were born, and there's nothing you can do about it. That's not what I believe in, there's plenty you can do about it. I myself am far from a "chad" and I'm still pretty satisfied with my experience dating. Doesn't change the objective fact that attractive/tall/rich men receive the lion's share of attention (and sex) from women. That's just observing reality.

I do have a few beliefs that overlap with red pill, like the belief that sexual market value exists (which is what you saw in the other comment that made you think this). I also have some that overlap with blue pill. Which is the whole point of my flair. Are you even familiar with the flair system of this subreddit you are attempting to participate in?

Nah they just suck. Bad luck tbh

I'm not disputing they sucked.

I do dispute that it was just bad luck. Unless you are particularly unattractive (which is a minority of women, so statistically unlikely), you had ample opportunity to have sex with all kinds of men. You discarded most of them and specifically chose bad partners. That's not bad luck, you (like many women) seek out characteristics that correlate with selfish, uncaring behavior in men.

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[–]NothingOrAllLifePurple Pill Woman [score hidden] 6 months ago (29 children) | Copy Link

Women would be more open to sleeping with men quickly if men respected, or even liked women that sleep with men quickly. Generally, men seem to want to fuck the hoe, disparage the hoe, marry the virgin and then complain the virgin isn’t good or exciting in bed.

The “mating dance” has become a necessity to at least attempt the see if the man is in this for you and the physical stuff, or just the physical stuff. Women KNOW men want to sleep with them. Women also know that they will carry any stigma associated with sleeping with men: whether it be from society or from the man himself - she knows that she will be judged for the action for more harshly than he will if someone starts spreading rumors.

Physical intimacy comes with a lot more baggage for women. So, naturally. It’s just going to be harder to get a woman to engage in it with a man she doesn’t find special on some level.

Whether it be surface level attractiveness or charm - you gotta have something to make her want to take that risk for you.

Because sex for women is not just a fun activity you can engage in and then go about your day - you have to worry about pregnancy, you have to worry about whether a guy you haven’t met yet will care if you sleep with one too many people, you have to care about whether the man you’re sleeping with will talk about you or insult you when it’s done because you slept with him.

Sleeping with a man is easy, yeah. What’s not easy is what could happen after.

[–]Lemon_geckoChanging pills based on my mood Woman [score hidden] 6 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Logical_Breadfruit49Purple Pill Man [score hidden] 6 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I think slut shaming is wrong. I want more sluts in the world, not less. Why would I shame them? I think the men who slut shame, and then crave female attention are just idiots.

That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with just wanting to spend time with someone to use them for their bodies. I wouldn't mind if someone did that to me, so I wouldn't really mind doing that to someone else.

Men have a biological need to be able to enjoy sex, women do not, over the years, this mindset has made a sort of catch-22 of sex being super important to men, but not as important to women. If men wanted women to be more sexually free, they would make it enjoyable for women to be sexually free.

What do you think men could do as a whole to make easy for women to be sexually free? I agree with that slut shaming is bad. I think women like Bonnie Blue shouldn't be shamed. But I will also say that most slut shaming I've witnessed tends to be done by other women, as a form of intrasexual competition. Not saying that men don't do it too, just that the less slutty women seem to do it more than men do. I think legalizing and perhaps even glorifying prostitution and pornography would go a long way as well. What do you think?

[–]NothingOrAllLifePurple Pill Woman [score hidden] 6 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

At this point there are thousands of years of damage both men and women would have to unlearn. It also does zero to take away the risk of sex that the woman has. Pregnancy, higher risk of stds, plus, casual sex is just overall less enjoyable for women.

It’s why, when women do engage in causal sex, it would be with a more attractive man. You’re raking the risk, but at least he’s pleasant to look at, pleasant to communicate with, and generally fun to be around for the short time the two of you aren’t horizontal.

Otherwise, you’re staring at a blah guy you don’t know who is going to be done with you in 4.5 minutes. Having more sluts doesn’t mean men who are overall completely unappealing would have more sex - it does mean that the stigma around women and sex might lessen and give average guys an easier time at having sex.

But again, I don’t really conflate the two issues the same. One is using you for your body, the other party wants to have a relationship with you and learn about you as a person.

Sex is low value. Even men think so, based on how they treat women that have sex with them quickly they aren’t taking these women to meet their parents. They aren’t treating them like the can be a good partner. Men tend to reinforce the idea that sex with them is something that makes women worse.

[–]Logical_Breadfruit49Purple Pill Man [score hidden] 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sex is low value. Even men think so, based on how they treat women that have sex with them quickly they aren’t taking these women to meet their parents. They aren’t treating them like the can be a good partner. Men tend to reinforce the idea that sex with them is something that makes women worse.

The reason why men treat promiscuous women this way isn't because sex is low value. It's because often women who are promiscuous have other issues like low self-esteem and bad impulse control. If a woman was promiscuous but didn't struggle in these other departments, men wouldn't care nearly as much. In fact, there are many mature prostitutes and pornstars out there and men are indeed marrying them. Look at Riley Reid. Even Bonnie Blue will end wifed up eventually.

Men tend to reinforce the idea that sex with them is something that makes women worse.

I think most men would prefer a woman who is less sexually experienced than themselves, similar to how most women would prefer a man who is taller them themselves. Although both of these aren't dealbreakers for a lot of people, they're still strong gender performatives. I think these issues can easily be solved though by just normalizing and glorifying sex and prostitution.

Do you think women view men who have had paid for sex as being worse?

[–]pie-martNo Pill woman [score hidden] 6 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

For us there is just too much risk with sex. It can become not worth it. We also get sought out for sex more than anything else. Our worth is based on how we look in society. Its like i guess as a man, if a woman only wants you for money and thats all everyone around you talks about and they ignore who you are or any other thing you offer and only try to pretend to be nice to get your money and they make it obvious and then go online and say shit like, well, you shouldn't wear expensive watches if you don't want me to use you for your money.

It sucks to be seen as a one trick pony in a way your entire worth is based on that one act.

I think casual sex can be fun. But there needs to be trust and you should like the person and care about them to a degree, more than just the sex they provide.

Just like guys wanna be seen as whole human beings and not just ruthless sex addicts or an ATM. We women wanna be seen as whole humans too and not just be seen for the sex we could potentially give

[–]Logical_Breadfruit49Purple Pill Man [score hidden] 6 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]NothingOrAllLifePurple Pill Woman [score hidden] 6 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Some men have made up this fantasy about women and these so called chads. That all women are mad the hot guy didn’t commit after she hooked up with him early.

The act happens, but men are forgetting that women are told from very early on they sex with a man does not mean anything. Women know that hot guy probably won’t commit after she sleeps with him, just like men know that it’s unlikely the beautiful woman is going to sleep with him after the spends whatever and does whatever.

The women, like the men, are just hopeful they will be the exception to the rule.

Everyone is stupid when it comes to love and romance.

some men would be happy to pump and dump a woman even after he has gone through the song and dance of trying to woo another woman and it didn’t work. Despite him understating how hurt he felt when he was ignored at best and used at worst.

[–]mrbonee69 6 months ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

The act happens, but men are forgetting that women are told from very early on they sex with a man does not mean anything.

Yet another woman trying to shift blame to anyone but herself. "B-b-b-b-but I was told!". SS officers were told to kill Jewish people and minorities, do we absolve them of accountability because they were "just doing what they were told"?

Women know that hot guy probably won’t commit after she sleeps with him, just like men know that it’s unlikely the beautiful woman is going to sleep with him after the spends whatever and does whatever.

Yet women still sleep with the hot guy who will ghost them and then turn around and try to generalize all men as deadbeat shitlords who will leave after blowing their wad. Once again, women trying to deflect and shift blame from themselves. Men are catching on to it and feminists can't stand it.

The women, like the men, are just hopeful they will be the exception to the rule.

Comparing apples to oranges. Modern women spend their youth bouncing from chad to chad, while the men you speak of spend their youth hoping anyone will be with them at all. Men and women are not the same.

Everyone is stupid when it comes to love and romance.

Another statement to deflect blame. "We can't judge women for this because men do it too!", which is also a lie.

some men would be happy to pump and dump a woman even after he has gone through the song and dance of trying to woo another woman and it didn’t work. Despite him understating how hurt he felt when he was ignored at best and used at worst

The majority of women will gladly let a man take her on a date just to get free food without offering any sort of companionship after the fact. It's just women wanting to be held to a lesser standard than they hold men to.

[–]NothingOrAllLifePurple Pill Woman [score hidden] 6 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m not shifting the blame for anything: the reason women don’t seek out casual sex and generally don’t engage in it with certain men is because women have been taught that sex is bad.

They are only taking the risk for a man they find to be worth the risk for whatever reason.

Comparing women dating to fucking nazis is honestly so crazy.

Me saying men and women that do certain things in hopes of sex or a relationship is stupid is not deflecting. They are doing stupid actions…they need to both be willing to accept the consequences of those stupid actions.

Some men also want to have access to sex without doing anything in return. The man issue I see here come up is that “chad didn’t have to do anything”.

Men want ease of access for sex - it’s never going to happen if they don’t have something worth being easy for.

The women have a similar issue, they gotta have something to keep the guy interested in them.

What are women doing that makes you think they want to be held to a lesser standards.

[–]mrbonee69Red Pill Man [score hidden] 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m not shifting the blame for anything: the reason women don’t seek out casual sex and generally don’t engage in it with certain men is because women have been taught that sex is bad.

I almost can't believe this, you say you're not shifting the blame and then immediately try to shift the blame. Incredible.

They are only taking the risk for a man they find to be worth the risk for whatever reason.

Because they can't control the urge to fuck the hot guy. It's an issue with women themselves.

Comparing women dating to fucking nazis is honestly so crazy.

It's a valid comparison. Trying to absolve women of accountability because "that's what they were told" is just like trying to absolve a nazi, a soldier, a police officer for doing something bad because "that's what they were told".

Me saying men and women that do certain things in hopes of sex or a relationship is stupid is not deflecting. They are doing stupid actions…they need to both be willing to accept the consequences of those stupid actions.

Women are the gatekeepers of sex, the onus falls on them.

Some men also want to have access to sex without doing anything in return. The man issue I see here come up is that “chad didn’t have to do anything”.

Projection. This is the default state of women, they think access to their vagina negates any other contribution they have to make to a relationship, except for Chad.

Men want ease of access for sex - it’s never going to happen if they don’t have something worth being easy for.

Correct, but not in the way that you think. Women have colloquially decided that only men in the top 20% of attractiveness deserve to have sex, which is the "something worth being easy for". If women had realistic standards, this wouldn't filter 80% of men like it does. I blame social media and online dating.

The women have a similar issue, they gotta have something to keep the guy interested in them.

I agree. Unfortunately, most women have the personality of a wet dishrag. Dunning-Kreuger.

What are women doing that makes you think they want to be held to a lesser standards.

They don't want to be body shamed, but want to body shame men. They don't want to be held accountable for sex, but want all men to be held accountable for sex. Many more.

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[–]Suspicious_Loss_84Purple Pill Man [score hidden] 6 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don’t know if I agree it should be hard necessarily, but I do agree that it should be meaningful. For me, sex is an intimate and inherently emotional act just as it is physical. I think the problem men “see” by way of dating apps and pop culture/media is that women have a never ending phone book of choices, are very picky, and (anecdotally) struggle to hold a conversation or be authentic. Whereas a man can be an authentic, genuine, “average” looking guy and will get 1 date every 3 months out of which 0-1 will go anywhere. Now part of this is on men because a lot of them are desperate and not picky enough. But also a lot of women have VERY high standards and expect men to do all the heavy lifting in any type of relationship, casual or otherwise. It’s both sexes having worms in their brains from social media echo chambers, instant gratification, and disconnection from actual human community and genuine social interaction. We don’t know how to talk to each other anymore imo

[–]januaryphilosopher [score hidden] 6 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Suspicious_Loss_84Purple Pill Man [score hidden] 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Im not in any echo chamber at all. The only thing I do is read books, listen/play music, and look at Reddit, mostly for hobby interests. I’m married. I’ve been on dating apps though and have talked with many different women. I don’t know of any statistics about women on or off apps, I don’t even know how you would quantify that or where that claim comes from. My comments and statements come from personal experience and actually interacting with people on and off apps, data/statistics, and reading many stories about both men and women’s experiences dating. Women get far more dates and many more options than men, that’s facts. I’m not trying to solve anything, because this is a social/cultural issue, but I think women have a very skewed understanding of men due to media and mostly ignore what men have to say about men irl. Men do as well, but men see to compromise much more and change behavior way easier or lower standards to be with women. It’s the opposite when it comes to men. But hey I’m just another man

[–]Makuta_ServaelaPurple Pill Woman 30 points31 points32 points 6 months ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Where as for women, just have to say yes or no.

I just shouted the word "Yes", and didn't suddenly get laid.

But anyway, sex is designed for primarily your pleasure, with little direct risk to you, you are incapable of getting pregnant, you have a much lower chance of STDs as the penetrator, and you are almost guaranteed an orgasm. Seems pretty fair that if you get way more out of it and risk way less, then you should work harder for it.

The thing is, you're seeing this as a gendered issue rather than a position issue. If you want to have a dick shoved in you (straight men have prostates too, you know), have great risk to you, higher STD chance, and barely expected to orgasm, you could just as easily as I could walk into a club full of men who want to do that to you, and just as easily as I could say Yes.

If I want sex where my pleasure is prioritised, my risk is low, my orgasm is basically guaranteed, I'd have just as hard a time as you would finding that. It's not that being a man is hard and woman is easy. It's that being a penetrator is hard and penetrated is easy.

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again, not women's concern or responsibility. i can get laid every day of the week if i want, and i'm well "post-wall" age, a single mother, and overweight.

I didn’t think getting sex every single day if she wanted was a thing for women to brag about.

if the nature ain't selecting, you gotta get it how you live.

And are women and you ok with the possibility of these men living the life of creating negative things that affect women such as taking away your rights? Are you also ok with saying that those men are victim of natural selection?

also we're not talking about women's role in upholding patriarchal bullshit, we're talking about your inability to get laid and why no one cares. so your second point is moot

Nope it’s not. It’s an excellent question but I guess it makes you uncomfortable to answer such excellent question.

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i frankly don't give a shit WHAT "negative effects" men THINK they are going to impose on me and mine, you'll be unpleasantly surprised at how unflinchingly i refuse to comply if it ever comes down to it. you can send me to hell or jail, i'm GOING to do whatever the f i want with my body/life.

So you’re ok with that possibility. Great. That’s all I needed to know. The rest of what you said is irrelevant.

and now you want to pretend that there's no merit in being highly sexually desirable in SPITE of the thread you're crying in right now and the messaging that the system directs at women of a certain age?? l. m. f. a. OOOOOO 🤣

So you’re scared at answering my question. That’s all I need to know.

enjoy your deteriorating pocket pussy later, i'm gonna set up a d appointment tonight purely for spite!

Sorry but I’m not interested in living your head rent free. No means no.

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not like we are going to trek in some uninhabited lands where monsters will eat us alive.

That has nothing to do with biology, which remains the same as it did hundreds of thousands of years ago.

This is logical. Women are rationally behaving in our own self-interests - e.g. having sex when we believe there would be a net benefit to us. Men are irrationally demanding that we de-prioritize our own self-interests and substitute theirs instead.

It's also not like we live in a time where infant mortality is high and life expectancy is low, yet men still want to bang and impregnate hordes of teenagers and demand women's "peak" even though IVF exists.

doubt any women attracted to a man would have no pleasure being with him.

Nothing I said was "no pleasure," it is a matter of costs vs benefits. A guy licking my clit for .5 seconds isn't "no pleasure," but if that's all I get out of the experience and/or I have to effectively give myself an orgasm then wtf do I need him and his dick there for??

Men insist they have zero responsibility for female pleasure or orgasms, and then you want to sit here and act like women should not only find this beneficial and appealing, but should be doing so at a much higher rate.

It's nonsense. There's literally no part of your mentality and belief that makes sense to women, which is why it will be utterly ineffective at changing feelings.

With that in mind, I think I present the strongest counter why it should be easy to have partnership with women kind

What "counter?" All I see is "biology shouldn't matter and men on the internet aren't real." As if the collective disappointing experiences of casual sex by straight women en masse and at large were also with "imaginary internet men."

You have no rational basis for your argument. You just expect women to prioritize male self-interests over our own, because that's what you want

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You are taking the worst examples to put forth your argument.

My "argument" is a rebuttal to yours that doesn't rely on "examples."

Biology is the same as it was hundreds of thousands of years ago. This is a fact, not an "argument." BTW men absolutely don't claim to want "nothing to do" with teenagers, as once again the popularity of barely legal porn proves. Women aren't the ones watching that crap, and it definitely means if "legal" were younger, they'd watch that shit too. Men on this sub constantly mention how women's "peak" conveniently starts at the teenager age of 18 🙄

Perhaps it should be women to women that might change the behaviour.

This isn't a matter of "changing behavior," this is - once again - you demanding women serve men's interests for no good reason other than your sad dicks.

Why don't men castrate themselves instead of demanding women sacrifice our sexual attraction? Our bodies are not charity for men.

The only "narcissism" here comes from the person demanding otherwise - you.

Since you seem so utterly convinced that what people are sexually attracted to shouldn't matter, why don't you go fuck each other and leave us alone?

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Vetting is not some stupid shit-test. Vetting is talking with someone, presenting your views in casual conversation, maybe asking a favor, to see their reaction.

Acting cold, distant, entertaining other men (or pretending to entertain), talking about your "ex, who was sooo handsome and tall" and so on, just to illicit some negative reaction is not vetting. It's shit-testing. The stupid "peeling orange test" or "the brid" or "stone" or whatever theory - these are shit-tests.

My exgf would shit test me constantly, and with time these tests were "harder". She would "mention" her previous sex partners, without me asking or even talking about the topic. And when i would not react in negative way, she would talk about them more. Or she would suddenly start clubbing (with her girlfriends) and then would tell me about all the handsome men, who were inviting them to vip section, buying alcohol and dancing with. So then i would say i feel uncomfortable and quite honestly cheated on, when she does this, and now i'm controlling freak. is this vetting? Is this looking for red flags? If yes, then god damn

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Treated lesser among who? Other men? You inflicting that on your own gender, why do women responsible for men putting a spoke in your own wheel?

Treated lesser by women because those men don't meet said womens' unrealistic and delusional standards of what counts as a man.

Tell me which problem is worse: abortion, becoming single mother, getting STDs or gasp BEING CALLED AN INCEL by some dumb fuck who's opinion doesn't matter.

You say this implying that women have no choice in abortion, becoming a single mother, or getting STDs, as if they just wake up one day and have those things. If women don't want to deal with any of that stuff, they need to learn how to close their fucking legs.

or gasp BEING CALLED AN INCEL by some dumb fuck who's opinion doesn't matter.

The above comment can be prevented by not having sex. This point can't be prevented by the person who is experiencing it, so yes it is a much bigger problem than women dealing with the consequences of a voluntary act, which sex is.

Who asks you about your n-count anyway?

A man who respects himself enough to determine if his potential mate has fucked a ton of dudes before him. The ability to pair bond decreases with every different partner a woman has and also carries the risk that she would try to con the man into raising kids that aren't his. Women don't care about that problem because they always know they are the biological parent, yet those same women expect men to give a fuck about any one of their own problems. If women didn't have double standards, they wouldn't have any standards.

[–]No_Personality538120 | woman [score hidden] 6 months ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Then men should learn to close their fucking mouths if they are so afraid of that people might say about them. Besides, I don't know any normal woman whose standards for men are high n-count. Never have I heard of that. And you are the one to talk about double standards? Women can't have high n-count, but men MUST? Women can't pair bond like some airpods, but what makes you think men can??? You are the only one who cares about your body count, nobody else, nobody gives a fuck. Its your own selfish desires to fuck around and like you said you don't really care about any consequences and problems for women. So why do women should care about you not getting your dick wet or getting a "side eye" for low n-count? You demand from women to close their legs so they won't deal with these problems, and then you complain you have a shortage of women to sleep with. The irony

[–]mrbonee69Red Pill Man [score hidden] 6 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Then men should learn to close their fucking mouths if they are so afraid of that people might say about them.

Men don't even have to do anything for women to do shit like that to them. Example: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/bucks-co-woman-gets-prison-for-fake-attempted-rape-kidnapping-claims/4149486/.

I don't know any normal woman whose standards for men are high n-count.

The fact that women use "incel" as an insult shows that they want a man that other women desire. It doesn't matter what you say about women you know, the facts show that women rate men with more sexual partners as more attractive. This does not go in reverse.

Women can't pair bond like some airpods, but what makes you think men can???

Because men and women are different.

You are the only one who cares about your body count, nobody else, nobody gives a fuck.

If you, and most women, truly believed that then you wouldn't get so offended and refuse to answer when someone asks you about it. Why shouldn't you tell them, its no big deal right?

Its your own selfish desires to fuck around and like you said you don't really care about any consequences and problems for women.

So ironic, women are the ones that want to fuck around with every flavor of Chad. Why should I give a fuck about consequences and problems for an issue caused by a preventable act? It sounds like you think women should have the power to choose who has sex, but also not be held accountable for that said power so she can blame her own shitty decisions on the nearest man.

So why do women should care about you not getting your dick wet or getting a "side eye" for low n-count?

Because those men don't have a choice in the matter. Women make fun of those men for even trying at all. Then those women insult those same men because they aren't tall enough or have the right face bones, something that is out of their control. Hypocrisy.

[–]No_Personality538120 | woman [score hidden] 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men don't even have to do anything for women to do shit like that to them. Example: https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/bucks-co-woman-gets-prison-for-fake-attempted-rape-kidnapping-claims/4149486/.

What that supposed to prove?

The fact that women use "incel" as an insult shows that they want a man that other women desire. It doesn't matter what you say about women you know, the facts show that women rate men with more sexual partners as more attractive. This does not go in reverse.

They use because so called "incels" are often misogynistic and can't attract any women with that behavior and then complain why they can't get laid. The resonable non misogynistic incels aren't bullied for being incels, by normal women.

Because men and women are different.

Copium, you are just trying to make your own comfortable to you rules, to make it all one-sided. Women are like men in terms of pair bond.

If you, and most women, truly believed that then you wouldn't get so offended and refuse to answer when someone asks you about it. Why shouldn't you tell them, its no big deal right?

Pretty sure if men would not deem women as dirty for their sexuality, women wouldn't get offended. It's almost like if men didn't bully each other, they wouldn't feel less of themselves.

So ironic, women are the ones that want to fuck around with every flavor of Chad. Why should I give a fuck about consequences and problems for an issue caused by a preventable act? It sounds like you think women should have the power to choose who has sex, but also not be held accountable for that said power so she can blame her own shitty decisions on the nearest man.

I can say the same about men, even knowing that men admit that they want to fuck every Stacy on earth and that they imagine fucking every women they meet personally.

Because those men don't have a choice in the matter. Women make fun of those men for even trying at all. Then those women insult those same men because they aren't tall enough or have the right face bones, something that is out of their control. Hypocrisy.

Are these women in the room with us right now? You know, wimen make fun of guys trying. Never met women like that personally, but who knows what kind abusers you are chasing. Btw, its not women who bully you for your facial structure. it's you, guys: https://youtu.be/_vUzidxSWlg Fucking hypocrisy.

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Unfortunately it's bigger than sex. It's an investment.

Think about loans. Most people only give you a loan when you have something worth betting against. Do you make enough money they can squeeze out of you for not knowing any better, or do you have assets they can seize if you default?

If you don't have those things, now you've got to try to get it by proving your assets. Show them your house, your car, your portfolio, family assets, employment etc. Make them want something you have access to.

Proving you have assets is the equivalent of dating. And reciprocation is basically getting the loan.

Everyone isn't going to be approved for a loan, you're either really responsible, or really dumb. Most loans are predatory so getting a loan isn't always a good thing.

If you want to do the mating dance and don't want liability, you basically need to apply for a grant. But you have to be a specific type of person to get that. (Fuckboy, Chad, Tyrone etc)

It's half a joke... But it's all relative in my opinion.

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Title	Getting laid as a guy shouldn't be this difficult
Author	beautiful_falcon776
Upvotes	18
Comments	928
Date	January 13, 2026 2:44 PM UTC (6 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1qbt5jw/getting_laid_as_a_guy_shouldnt_be_this_difficult/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/getting-laid-as-a-guy-shouldnt-be-this-difficult.1571054 https://theredarchive.com/post/1571054

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