Crux of young men’s anger towards dating market and women comes from different prices of admissions for sex for different men and the disinformation women put out about what they are attracted to.

GridReXX · 2021-07-28T16:34:13+00:00

Flaired as a CMV as title is an affirmative claim.

ThrowingKnive · 2021-07-29T07:43:43+00:00

As a man, being seen as "boyfriend/husband material" is terrifying. Being sexy is the biggest advantage of all, not being reliable or cared about.

TotalTravesty · 2021-07-28T16:32:29+00:00

When I don’t like the price of something, I shop somewhere else.

Also, am I the only one who has never seen this “phenomenon” of women stringing guys they really like along? In my experience, the path to sex goes one of two ways:

1) The woman really likes me and we have sex relatively quickly with no coaxing.

2) The woman is unsure about me, goes on one or two more follow-up pity/hope dates before ghosting or breaking things off entirely.

I dunno, women have always been pretty clear about if they’re into me or not. If you’re feeling like you’re being “strung along” chances are you’re just not getting the hint.

Orange_Paisley · 2021-07-28T16:22:12+00:00

I had never even had casual sex at 16-21, it was within committed relationships. So if men truly consider “casual sex” the prize, they would have been sorely disappointed in me.

Feisty-Saturn · 2021-07-28T17:20:09+00:00

What are the stats on women giving the most wild sex to casual men fucks? Are these men long term friends with benefits, because quite a lot of one night stands where people arnt that coherent so I doubt that’s the best sex people are having. I also highly doubt that 16-21 year olds are having the best sex out of everyone else. That age group is very inexperienced and im sure most men and women who are older than that have a much better idea of what to do with their bodies.

superlurkage · 2021-07-28T16:39:49+00:00

Crux of young men’s anger towards dating market and women comes from men and women valuing sex and relationships differently, while behaving the same.

DillonTheFatUglyMale · 2021-07-29T01:02:10+00:00

True that women think being the wife is a prize for men. It isn't. We want the causal sex. That's the prize

crookedsummer2019 · 2021-07-28T16:42:50+00:00

Right. The men we actually like we…. string them along with no sex or starfish sex. Because that’s how we get them to commit, by not giving them what they want :/.

If you only knew the effort we put in when it’s a guy we actually like vs a guy we are not too sure about.

When and if you meet a girl who really likes you, you will see the difference.

Barneysparky · 2021-07-28T16:48:11+00:00

I'm not good at math, and my attention abilities are minimal at best. I could never actually sit and study.

I do my best working at a physical job, as such I will never earn as much as someone with the abilities to earn a degree.

It is what it is, I am not crying in my soup lamenting the fact that some people have more than I do because they have the ability to make more than I do.

You don't have movie-star good looks. That is not going to change. It is your choice though to cry in your soup over something that no amount of complaining about is going to change.

Or you are an introvert. A introvert is simply not going to have the same life as a extrovert.

Or you are risk-averse and have an insecure relationship style. People with secure relationship styles who enjoy taking risks are simply not a match for you.

nathaniel_new · 2021-07-28T17:00:23+00:00

I think women view sex differently, but they are also not that naïve not understand it form the guys perspective. When they do this they are doing it for their interest because they know if a guy found out they thought like this he would be gone. The best thing you can do is filter out the women like this the moment you find out how they view relationship and sex. Women will also hide that part of themselves the best they can so just act as though your completely open about sex and relationship and she tell you what you need to know, then you act accordingly.

Novadina · 2021-07-28T20:06:58+00:00

Why would anyone date someone who is “stringing you along for months with no sex or in LTRs starfish or sex once a month” if you actually wanted a partner you had good sex with more often than that? If someone did that to me or had a mismatched libido I would stop dating them. The whole point of dating is to discover this kind of incompatibility so you can end it before there are kids, mortgage, etc.

Most people I know prefer to date women who have similar libidos. If some men are having the continuous problem of finding good sex only with women who they don’t want a relationship with and getting in serious relationships only with women who don’t even like sex with them, maybe they should try to date the women who they actually have good sex with instead? Why on earth would men get in LTRs with the women who they aren’t sexually compatible with instead of the ones having “wild sex” with you??

I’m not clear how you are suggesting this is a problem with women. If men are choosing partners that aren’t compatible, they are free to change who they choose to date, no one is forcing them to date these women who don’t want sex with them.

ToughAnswers · 2021-07-28T16:21:27+00:00

Don't boo

Vote

(Don't commit. Accept only circumstances that are on your own terms. Don't let thirst fuel you to make decisions you aren't happy making. Better quench the thirst with hookers if need be)

GridReXX · 2021-07-28T16:37:20+00:00

If she's not giving you the sex you like and when you like, don't date her. You know your boundaries. Stick to them.

Many men who are seeking an LTR don't care if she doesn't suck his dick on date one. They don't have this fear that you have that she'll never want to fuck. Maybe they made out on the first hangout. Maybe he's had plenty of sex before so she doesn't mind she isn't "spread eagle" at hello ya know.

Your purview is that of an unarousing man. Not an arousing man.

badgersonice · 2021-07-28T17:18:36+00:00

That being said, it seems that women are unable, or unwilling to meet halfway with men when it comes to who’s mating strategy is acceptable.

I can say that as one of the women who didn’t want and didn’t do casual sex (meaning I was meeting men according to your definition here)… I cannot tell you how unappealing it would have been to date a guy who really wants casual sex, but is only pretending to give a shit about me because he’s can’t get it.

This mentality:

but from the pov on young men who value sex a lot, it seems like a slap in the face when you give the most wild, uninhibited sex (what young men describe as your best) to men “you don’t actually care about” meanwhile the guys you “actually like” you string a long for months with no sex or in LTRs starfish or sex once a month. MEN, being a husband is not the prize

Is NOT meeting women who want to be married halfway at all. I cannot express how much I do not want to be in a long term relationship with a man who’s just using me for sex he can’t get otherwise while he actually hates spending time with me outside of that.

gimpgirl555 · 2021-07-29T05:38:45+00:00

Gen z and millennial guys are gonna have to just deal cuz I can’t see how this can be rectified or if it even should be fixed.

You guys can just go fuck hookers, and women can't complain because they slept around themselves so they owe you. Once they get to 30-40 you dump them for someone younger.

You still win because you don't have to get married or provide anymore. It's a lot cheaper to pay for hookers than to betabuxx for 50 years.

Also why would you accept starfish sex in the 2020s? Just swap her for other girls bro.

Jamless_fem · 2021-07-28T17:05:06+00:00

Lots of generalization & projection here.

Most women are not even interested in casual sex/One night stands mainly because statistically most women don't get orgasm from it. Women require foreplay & emotional connection for good orgasm.Unlike men, women can't fvck anything that breathes & still get an orgasm from it. That's why women don't tend to jump their date's d!ck on the first date.

Ian_Campbell · 2021-07-28T22:13:44+00:00

When a woman wants you the price of admission can be nothing at all and she may come onto you explicitly asking for a casual encounter. The price of exit may be tantrums, slander, even false accusations in the worst case scenario. When it is too easy, unfortunately that might be when you should be scared.

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-07-28T16:22:25+00:00

Nothing's stopping you from being a fuckboi. Stop bitching.

helloiamheretohelp · 2021-07-28T16:24:17+00:00

You have a bit of an optimistic view of casual sex for men… it’s still mostly the guy putting in a ton of work

wtknight · 2021-07-28T17:29:35+00:00

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2021-07-28T17:57:51+00:00

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asdf333aza · 2021-07-28T23:33:22+00:00

Gen z and millennial guys are gonna have to just deal cuz I can’t see how this can be rectified or if it even should be fixed.

Solution is not to get married. She can fuck you or she can fuck off.

Goodthingstartssmall · 2021-07-28T21:03:05+00:00

The crux of young mens anger is the entitled attitude and bitchy double standard to many women are displaying. Calling men low effort while doing zero effort. Saying men "can't read the room" while themselves hiding in plausible deniability their entire lives. Being overweight but demanding fit partners etc.

AquaChip · 2021-07-28T17:14:00+00:00

Men complaining about what other men get that they don’t get is equivalent to children whining because their sibling got a cookie and they didn’t. It’s childish, immature, and unattractive.

I don’t see any women complaining that a man would treat Margot Robbie different than he would treat an average women. Would a man make Margot Robbie pay for half of a date? Of course not because she’s smoking hot and he wants to do everything in his power to impress her. But a man has no problem asking an average or below average woman to pay for half.

I don’t care how Margot Robbie is treated compared to me because THATS LIFE. I try to do best with the cards I’m dealt. Complaining and dwelling on it and trying to change others behavior is going to do NOTHING.

QuitExpert3869 · 2021-07-28T19:45:34+00:00

If you believe in liberty and that women are in fact people with rights, don’t they have every right to specify what they want, and they have the right to change their mind? Men have the same right and agency over their bodies.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2021-07-28T22:34:44+00:00

I personally believe in only having sex i want to have and when I want it. The whole wait for commitment thing is weird to me.

In saying that I do generally wait to be "comfortable" and an emotional "connection". *

The way I see it sexuality isn't a straight line. You will find high sex drive women (and men), low sex drive women, responsive sexuality women etcetcetc

The way I see it if the woman isn't compatible with you then you have every right to bow out.

she has every right to fuck people on her own time line without being shamed for it. You have every right to reject her for it if you don't like it without being shamed for it.

I do disagree about women "lying" about what they find attractive. We're actually relatively upfront about what we value. It's just that I think our communication styles are very different. I know this because I grew up with brothers.

Essentially women have a tendency to assume everyone knows what we're talking about. If I told a another girl "I'm into nerdy dudes who like the outdoors" they already know I mean "I want an nerdy dude who likes the outdoors AND I am physically attracted to who is able to spark romance in me". Men will take it at face value. And accuse me of not including physical attributes. But to women it's more of, why would I? Obviously I want someone attractive. Do I need to spell it out for you?

When women say "i like romantic guys who give me flowers" what they mean is "I like men who give me flowers in a socially appropriate manner who is handsome and charming."

We aren't lying to you. We communicate differently. This does not make us worse than you. It makes us different.

*before anyone calls me out for lying. Yes I tried casual once. Yolo and all. Learnt what I like. Never did it again. Take that as you will

velvetunderground111 · 2021-07-29T02:27:45+00:00

The bad boy who dates/fucks here when she is 18-24ish was the real winner. The dude or husband she ends up with long term isn't. It takes awhile for men to figure this out, and it was actually a huge relief to me later in life.

Lotus_82 · 2021-07-29T02:43:18+00:00

Prices of admission? It seems you can’t help but see sex and subjective degrees of attractiveness as transactional, and it’s an unhealthy outlook because it makes you look at every attractive women as your potential “prey” and all men as potential competitors.

I think you may still be lacking a little maturity in the way you view male / female social dynamics.

y2kjanelle · 2021-07-28T18:19:10+00:00

I’m sorry I’m very confused.

If a girl had sex with her boyfriend immediately, there’s not a single guy here that wouldn’t call her an easy slut. That societal pressure is intense and harmful and ultimately causes changes in perception. For example, men think women who have a lot of casual sex or high n count are not wife or girlfriend material. Podcasts on male dating focuses on weeding out “whores”… everyday men go on social media and shame women for their sexuality. You shame women for Instagram, you shame women for Snapchat posts, you comment that women only do social media to be gross whores and attract the male gaze. You say that girlfriends and wives are “innocent, “have self respect”, DONT sleep around, have low n counts, dress “modestly”, don’t have guy friends, don’t have any sexual energy” etc.

So why on EARTH are men angry for women not having sex immediately with women that are looking for relationships? Or why are you angry at them for hiding it? If a woman wanted to be seen as girlfriend material, by Mens logic, SHE WOULDNT HAV SEX WITH YOU immediately.

So which is it? Do you want women to be comfortable with their sexuality or not? You can’t shame women for having sex and then go around saying “why don’t you have sex with me?” You can’t say “girlfriend material” or “wifeys” are supposed to be innocent and not have sex and then complain that she won’t have sex with you immediately.

And men do this too! It’s called the Madonna whore complex. Men have repeatedly said and posted millions of videos saying “we don’t think sexually of the girls we actually like and want to date”…or “women we date are modest”. Dating takes time so if you want wifey material you’d wait for sex.

Does that make any sense?? Or am I just missing something?

It’s like saying “people who eat chocolate are terrible people” and then yelling in their face “why won’t you eat this chocolate I made you?!” Like lmao do you want me to eat it or not 😂😭✋🏾

ffandyy · 2021-07-28T20:52:39+00:00

Seems like the real issue is young men placing too much value on casual sex. If you feel hatred towards women because you aren’t getting casual sex that is unhealthy.

throughcracker · 2021-07-28T21:23:13+00:00

I genuinely do not understand (or, honestly, sympathize with) men who value sex more than love and companionship.

Puzzleheaded_Bet7294 · 2021-07-28T16:55:18+00:00

These days getting a ring on your finger as a woman means you’ve won, whereas becoming a husband means you’re most likely a loser simp that needed to commit and stake all your assets just for some starfish sex once a month, like you said

SuperSupremeKai · 2021-07-28T17:10:36+00:00

Don't attack women for their choices. Its their lives, not yours.

oldmanwinter_68 · 2021-07-28T16:41:16+00:00

Yeah, I once had a FWB like this who was engaged at the time. She was from a traditional country; it wasn't exactly an arranged marriage but everything was done with parental guidance and approval.

Anyway, she asked me to do all kinds of wild things while at the same time admitting to me that the most she did with her fiance was hold hands. Even after they were married, she told me that her sex with her husband was very vanilla that she tried to avoid it as much as possible. Maybe she was lying for the sake of my ego, but she really had a look of disgust on her face when she talked about intimacy with her husband.

And by the way, more than once she told me that if I wanted she would break things off and marry me instead. Even after they were married, she asked if I would impregnate her.

cuntreaper69 · 2021-07-28T18:56:08+00:00

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motion_lotion · 2021-07-28T16:53:25+00:00

Of course women put out disinfo about what they're attracted to. Pay attention to what women do, not what they say. It makes things a lot easier. And yes, some guys have it easier than others. That's life and you'll find the same true in school, the workplace, life, etc.

catchtowards12345 · 2021-07-28T18:20:32+00:00

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Haljeit · 2021-07-28T23:01:04+00:00

Different women do different things. Women soil wild oats and so do men. Women marry a guy who is an asset to survival not because they are obligated to fulfill the injustices of male blue balls. If you don’t like reality get a prostitute or masturbate. Women have enough to deal with and should be honored and protected as the molders who shape the future by mothering and raising our children. A husband can be intimate with his wife every day, if he puts forth the effort to be desirable. Women are not men, stop punishing them for not being penis toys.

trashrelations · 2021-07-28T16:35:44+00:00

thats why men are finding their own paths to happiness and leaving third wave feminism to the cats.

sayitsooth · 2021-07-28T17:59:46+00:00

Wait a minute, this is self defeating. The hot guys are getting casual sex from all these women, but women are only valuable for sex anyway from 16-21 which are their best years (my bad I didn't start until 19). So having a relationship is pointless because you won't get good sex and the women are gonna age anyway right?

You want open minded women who haven't slept with many men. So then you should be fine, the good looking women have slept with too many men for you anyway because they're only giving good sex to Chads and aren't aroused by you so they starfish so they're not an option for you anyway.

So stop expecting those porn movies to come true, date women who you can get who haven't slept with many guys because they're at your level of looks and problem solved. They'll be grateful, you'll get good sex and tada. But you won't get what the internet said you deserve. Because you likely don't anyway.

nofap_champ · 2021-07-28T18:12:33+00:00

I think this also has to do with women losing their ability to pair bond after multiple partners.

So of course the first few guys she gets with are gonna get the king treatment but then eventually the guy she ends up with (way down the line) will not get treated as good.

Of course this isnt always the case, especially if women are aware of it but most people arent aware of it. The pair bonding thing is rarely ever discussed mainstream.

YveisGrey · 2021-07-28T20:51:41+00:00

Young men are frustrated because they aren’t having sex period. Men who think women are having wild sex with a “Chads” watch too much porn. Wild sex with randos isn’t what most women are doing at all. In fact I’m pretty sure more sexual experimentation happens in LTRs than with ONS or casual partners.

And having a wife actually is a value to a man because men value fidelity and mate guarding. Of course being in a marriage or LTR also has other benefits like emotional support and companionship.

Most women are not into weird crazy sex. Most that doesn’t mean none are but it’s a pretty well known thing that men are more likely to have weird fetishes and be into weird sexual stuff than women are so this sound like projection. If you watch porn all the time sure you’ll start to think that women everywhere are engaging in these wild crazy sex acts and be disappointed if you get into a relationship and the sex isn’t like that. That’s not a woman problem it’s a too much porn problem.

basedmillennial95 · 2021-07-28T16:26:31+00:00

Gen z and millennial guys are gonna have to just deal

Mgtow, porn, booze, video games, sex dolls and then eventually sexbots. That will definitely be a rubicon.

Im_The_Daiquiri_Man · 2021-07-28T17:28:15+00:00

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TheHarlotLetter · 2021-07-29T00:32:01+00:00

Hit the nail on the head with this one. I've never heard it explained so succinctly and clearly.

ginteru · 2021-07-29T04:56:51+00:00

People become surprised when they realize (i.e. get red-pilled) that dating is inherently a selfish activity. You can be a saint who helps the poor, the sick and the unfortunate get back on their feet, but you will still want a desirable partner.

Dating is a zero-sum activity. Most of the time, when two people get together, that produces a number of losers from either the male or the female side. You can be an attractive, wealthy young man who gets with a lot of women, but that will produce a lot of loser men who want a relationship but can't get one. On the other hand, you can be a young, attractive woman who partners up with a desirable man which makes a lot of women become losers as they lost their ability to be with that man. It's very hard to balance that out to make it work for both sides.

Dating is as natural as anything else in nature, however. It exists like that because that ensures the most well-suited people get to produce offspring. It has to achieve a fairly fragile balance to ensure the majority of its participants are actually sexually and emotionally fulfilled, where men get the sex they want and women the relationships they want. It requires compromise and cooperation from both men and women.

When dating is heavily disbalanced and either a lot of men or women get what they want, either relationships or sex become overvalued and then you get situations where people become either sexually unfulfilled (i.e. a lot of men can't get laid or find a girl they like), children are raised under sub-par conditions (i.e. with a spiteful mother, without a father or with a false father) or relationships go into the trash bin (i.e. women can't get a man to stick around no matter what they do). It's no way to make a society function well under circumstances like that.

I think the issue of disbalance for today is two-fold, though. Women manipulating the truth and men not understanding the truth thoroughly enough.

Women manipulate the truth because it suits their sexual strategy. It's not evil, it's just one way to tip the balance in their favor. Same goes for those men who've either seen the truth (became red-pilled) and used it to their advantage or were born under really good circumstances (good genetics, wealthy family, being given the right mindset from a young age, etc.) and slept around a lot, which again tips the balance in one direction.

The combination of both these circumstances make the market for what it is today: a minority of men are sexually fulfilled with a majority of women and a minority of women are partnered up with someone they feel honest attraction to while the rest have to settle.

I think the red pill is healthy because it speaks a lot of truth, however, taking the red pill is kinda like being given a loaded gun. You have to understand that the wisdom behind the pill has been out there for centuries, however, depending on your goals it makes either tipping the balance unfavorably in the direction of men or a way for women to label it as "misogynistic manipulative discourse" and get it cancelled, tipping the balance the other way.

Anger and resentment comes from those young men who don't understand the truth thoroughly enough. Same goes for women who discover that some men have seen through their veil of misinformation. You shouldn't get angry at something as natural as dating, only see it for what it is and that it's tipped unfavorably right now.

I think if people started seeing the truth for what it is, without the disinformation from women and the manipulation of the rules of the market by men, you would perhaps find a solution to rebalance the dating world.

It doesn't mean you can't get laid, or can't find a good partner. Plenty of exceptions exist, but what is preached in the media right now is not exactly healthy for society.

PinkSultan · 2021-07-28T20:24:32+00:00

Crux of young men's anger towards dating and women comes from not being able to get laid. Full stop. Can we stop trying to come up with excuses?

LeJacquelope · 2021-07-28T21:12:48+00:00

ages 16

Pedophilia ftw eh?

Yeech. You couldn't melt me and pour me into bed with a woman under 25.

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cuntreaper69 · 2021-07-28T18:18:16+00:00

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kitteneos · 2021-07-28T18:37:59+00:00

What would be meeting you halfway?

tequila-shot-no-lime · 2021-07-29T00:49:40+00:00

That’s because our pussys are magic. You have a dildo with blood flowing through it.

Kinda kidding. But as a more serious point society puts value on a woman being the wife and society says men who are casually fucked are being given a prize. Society generalizes and paints men and women as black and white creatures when the truth is everyone has different wants, needs and likes regardless of pronoun. Also, as an attractive female who generally has their choice of men, if you’re a male I only want sex with, you are meeting my needs and I don’t care about giving you the best bj of your life. I am using you in hopes that you might add to my vibrator. If I’m looking to be more serious with you then I’ll pull the stops.

You have valid points but the points you’ve made only work if you follow societal norms and nothing else.

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