That's 7665 days. | MensRights

[–][deleted] 1619 points1620 points1621 points 9 years ago (230 children) | Copy Link

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Eh, I'd be more inclined to a community service sentence. Considering that she committed the crime at 13, she'd have to be tried as a 13 year old. Considering that she also committed the crime because she was fearing for her own safety, I'd be a bit more lenient than in cases like some college girl accusing a guy of rape after a one night stand that she regrets a week later.

The guy who was falsely imprisoned definitely deserves some fucking massive compensation for having his life destroyed; but as the saying goes, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Also keep in mind that shit like this can't just be pinned on one girl. The entire justice system failed this man, and many others like him. The answer isn't to go after one or two girls who make the news for fucking up one life, the answer is to fix the ridiculous problems in the justice system, and to get rid of shitty judges who decide it's ok to throw a man in jail for life based on a single testimony from one person.

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The big question is: Where do we draw the line on innocents being jailed?

1:100? 1:10000?

How many bad people should be set free, to make sure 1 innocent isnt put in jail? What if you were that 1 person?

It just seems to me, that there should be virtually no doubt that someone is guilty. And if you have 12 people all agree, no doubt, then put them away. But it doesnt seem like something that should be done by the general public. It honeslty should take some smart, very rational people to do this kind of thing.

You're typical jury is just so easy to manipulate, its childs play for anyone with a $5 psych book, or access to the internet and 20 minutes of spare time. But you give prosecution a budget 100x that of the pro-bono defense attorney and they will find a way to win, including hiring jury experts to find the week, put them on the jury and then prey on their weaknesses until they give the desired verdict.

The system is fundamentally flawed.

I will state: a lot of my information comes from TV, various articles, john oliver has a series on different aspects of the criminal justice system, and "Adam ruins everything" has a couple of episodes on related topics. Pair that with docu-drama "thirteenth" on Netflix. Cant help but feel nothing but disgust and despair.

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As a person with a law degree, I feel the need to clarify three things you said. I don't want you to think this is an angry rant or anything, just a statement of facts to help better your understanding beyond what is depicted in the TV, books, and movies you say you watch.

First, pro-bono doesn't mean bad. It just means that the attorney is representing someone without charging them a legal fee. There are a lot of instances in which this can take place, but the most common is law firms mandating a minimum number of pro-bono hours for each of its attorneys. Firms do this for a lot of reasons, but a lot of them do it and require all of their attorneys to comply. So even the best attorney has a few pro-bono hours under his or her belt.

Second, there's a saying in the legal profession: "The only people that end up on a jury at the ones that wasn't too be there and the ones too stupid to get out of it." It's not hard to get off a jury, you just have to show the slightest bias to one side or the other. A statement as simple as "Well, if the cops arrested him he must have done something bad" is enough for most sense attorneys to strike you for cause. Anyone with half a functioning brain can figure out how to get out of jury duty.

Last, the reason for jury selection being done from the public is that there's literally no other way to do it. You mentioned something tantamount to "professional juries". Let me ask you this, who would pay them? It can't be the state because the prosecutor works for the state as well, this creating a huge conflict of interest. It can't be the defendant for the same reason. So who is left that would have a rational relationship with the case to pay for it? On top of that how much can be feasibly paid to these people? It would have to be enough to draw intelligent people away from the professions they would otherwise seek out, not to mention compensating them for never being able to watch the news or talk about work with their loved ones (two absurdly frequent jury admonishments). And if it's the same ~12 people every time, how do they keep their cases separated? After your fourth or fifth murder trial in a month (this would have to be like Chicago or Detroit), some facts can cross between cases in your head. The point is, with the jury selection system we have now, there are a lot of built in safeguards. We're always looking for better options, but it's not easy.

I understand your frustration with the system, as does pretty much the entire system itself. You think the prosecutor and the judge don't feel like complete shit over this? There's a reason lawyers are among the most at risk for suicide and drug/alcohol dependency. This shit takes its toll on all of us. And it's part of the reason why there are a number of committees within the profession that have a goal of how to fix the profession and the system as a whole.

[–]gellis12 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Champigne 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

You have a point but you're vastly oversimplifying it. I would challenge you to "manipulate the jury like children." You can't just tell a jury something and expect them to believe because there's another attorney arguing against you. They make arguments rooted with evidence. All 12 jurors do have to agree on the verdict.

You're right, ideally no innocent person should have to prison for something they didn't do and I agree there should be a higher standard. But there's no way to prove someone unequivocally committed a crime short of video evidence, which is very rare.

Most defendants do not have a pro bono attorney. Most lawyers are not going to work for free unless they have the financial means to defend their client. Most are represented by public defenders or private defense attorneys. Public defenders offices are typically very underfunded and overloaded with cases. However it's not states attorneys are being given that much more resources. The fact that public defenders have little time for each defendant is what makes it a pay to play system. If you want to be adequately represented for a serious crime you more than likely need to pay for your own attorney. That is the flaw, that poor people, whom are more often the defendants, can't afford adequate legal representation.

Personally, I would rather not have serial rapist, serial murderers, child molesters, etc free because there wasn't 100% proof they committed the crime. It's not like most of these criminals are being convicted out of thin air in jury trials, most people never make it to a jury trial, they take a plea deal for a lower sentence. The problem is not the jury, it's the rest of the justice system. Plea deals, false confessions, for profit prisons, etc is what's wrong.

I suggest doing some real research on the topic instead of getting your info from television to form your opinion. It doesn't seem like you're too informed on the judicial process. A few movies I can recommend are a documentary, Gideon's Army, and the movie Twelve Angry Men. John Oliver and Adam Ruins Everything are good to bring awareness to these issues, but they don't really provide insight into them.

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Well something has to be done to fix these issues:

-Stupid jurors can be easily confused
-Jurors can be easily manipulated
-Uneducated jurors can fail to grasp scientific consepts even if laid out in fairly basic terms.
-Jurors will fall to their most basic prejudices without so much as a true understanding of what a prejudice is

I'm sure I'm missing some important stuff here, but somethings must be done to incentivise jurors to pay more attention, think more deeply, and not dole out convictions for serious offenses so lightly.

I read that a jury is more likely to convict someone simply because a conviction feels like an action, like they participated in justice, it feels more rewarding and satisfying than an acquittal. These kinds of things have no place in our criminal justice system.

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Stop throwing around legal bullshit you know nothing about. Egregious case of not following evidence standards. No.

The Federal Rules of Evidence 401 states that

Evidence is relevant if:

(a) it has any tendency to make a fact more or less probable than it would be without the evidence; and

(b) the fact is of consequence in determining the action.

Moreover, relevant evidence is admissible in evidence unless an exclusion applies, "The court may exclude relevant evidence if its probative value is substantially outweighed by a danger of one or more of the following: unfair prejudice, confusing the issues, misleading the jury, undue delay, wasting time, or needlessly presenting cumulative evidence."

That isn't the case here.

Yes, what happened to this man is terrible, but it isn't the fault of the judge.

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You are being far too lenient. She lied at 13, which may be understandable for a disturbed young girl. But then she kept the lie up for 21 years while the guy rotted in prison. That's 16 years of adulthood that she kept the lie up and made him suffer for it.

She deserves jail.

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But at the same time, if the guy was imprisoned when she was a teen, and he served 21 years, she would've had to have been in her 30's before she actually came forward and admitted to lying. I would've been a lot more understanding if she hadn't said anything till she was 18 or something, but there is no way that she could've still been threatened by the stepfather at that age to such an extent that she didn't come forward to literally stop a guy's life from being further destroyed.

I understand that it's not all her fault, and that a better justice system wouldn't have allowed it to happen, but the fact that she knew for so long and didn't come forward is inexcusable in my opinion. Nobody can give Mr.Franklin back what he lost, and she definitely deserves some sort of punishment for her actions and lack thereof.

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She was an actual legitimate victim and she still maintains that he abused her.

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She wasn't 13 for 21 years. Should could have confessed at age 20. Or 25. Or 30.

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I think that wanting to throw her in jail is a bit reactionary, personally. It goes to three larger questions of 1. how much we hold minors responsible for what they've done, 2. if those minors were never caught, how much should they be held accountable as adults for things they did as children for which they were never caught and continue to cause harm, and 3. how severe society is prepared to acknowledge that incarceration is. That third one is pretty tough because most people are disconnected from incarceration enough that they don't realize how serious it is to the average person being incarcerated.

So the question to you is, how bad does a 13 year old have to fuck up before they deserve to be incarcerated? Clearly, like you mentioned, there might be mitigating factors. But what happens if those mitigating factors go away and the previously 13 year old child does nothing to rectify?

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I mean it isn't ok to do what she did obviously but she was probably terrified and embarrassed beyond all reasoning

And what about the man who spent two decades surrounded by people behind bars who wouldn't waste time raping him?

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Even if she was young and oblivious at the time, there's no excuse for 16 years of adulthood before finally telling the truth.

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One of my best friends is going through a similar situation right now. Literally at a college "No pants party" and everyone was hammered drunk. He passed out and woke up at 3am to a girl freaking out saying he raped her and that she called the cops. I don't think she realized the real consequences of that accusation. He went to jail with $100,000 bail (which his family paid) then DNA test was inconclusive, and she broke down on the stand while giving testimony and said she doesn't know if it actually happened. He is on probation for 6 years with a deferred judgement and can't leave the state and gets randomly drug tested....As his friend i don't believe he did it but there's no proof either way, only her accusation while drunk at a no pants party...it's fucked up how much it messed up his life

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I agree with all of your points.

I'm not at all suggesting that there are no reasonable people on this sub or in the Men's Rights movement.

As a person who was initially repulsed by the MRM I'm proud to say that I am humble enough to admit when I'm wrong: I think that there is a lot wrong with the movement, some of its core ideas and in particular its de facto leaders and a lot of their followers, but looking into the movement has made me aware that on some issues, it generally makes extremely valid points.

I don't see how that detracts from the trends that I see: Misogyny masked as something else, rabid persecution complexes, willful rejection of reality, and in general an enthusiastic confirmation of many of the core arguments of feminism with none of the insight necessary to recognise the behaviour as such. This is a problem for the MRM, and a barrier to resolving the very important issues that the MRM raises.

Let me give you an example of what I mean: A few years back my younger cousin (late teens at the time I think) mentioned to me his (misguided) views on the idea of a gender pay gap, and seemed to be extrapolating those views into a conclusion that feminism has nothing sensible to say. He and I had a really constructive conversation about that in which I invited him to form his own views rather than just contradicting him.

I asked him this at the end (paraphrasing): "Let's say hypothetically that it's true that there is systemic misogyny (as well as some systemic misandry) in society, and that leads to a layer of people (most of whom are men) who are actively misogynistic. In that case, what kind of response to feminist arguments might we expect?"

The conclusion that he drew in the conversation that followed was that any reasoned arguments, whether they're right or wrong, would be drowned out by misogyny.

He's a redditor (or at least was, we only speak at family gatherings once or twice a year) and I suggested he have a look at r/MensRights. Later that night he sent me a text that just said "OK I see your point."

Maybe the r/MensRights front page was particularly bad that day. Maybe I'm making this all up. Maybe he's stupid.

Or maybe it's worth double-checking whether we actually have our eyes on the prize. And maybe if we don't, it's worth being clear that we have no patience with people whose emotions or lack of reasoning ability rob the movement of legitimacy.

My first contribution to this thread was not at all productive and I'll openly accept that. But the fact remains that the movement spends most of its time destroying its own credibility.

In the same way that feminism needs to get the fuck rid of morons who hate and blame men, and BLM needs to get the fuck rid of morons who parade idiot slogans like "Sipping on white tears", the MLM needs to get the fuck rid of morons who let their emotions drive their thinking.

I want the legitimate issues raised in the MLM addressed. If you're even remotely similar to the Paul Elams and the Roosh V's of the world, I can't accept that you want the same thing.

That's why I get so grouchy: Not because I disagree with you, but because I don't.

[–]TrulyStupidNewb 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I see and respect your point. I'm also glad that you laid out your opinion like you you did.

It's very hard for a movement with no leader and no membership to get rid of morons. We can denounce them or ban them, but the latter is rarely a good solution. Feminists usually denounce and ban people who disagree with them, rather than those who perpetuate hate and violence. You see, banning people has the side effect of shutting down discussion. It also doesn't fix the radicals. They'll just take their radicalism elsewhere, and nothing will stop them from using our label anyways. I'm sure the public won't care much if terrorist who participated under the men's rights banner was actually banned from a men's rights subreddit.

Name me 5 feminists who participate in violence, and who were notorious for being banned from a feminist subreddit. You see, nobody cares who was banned from a subreddit. Only that they carry the banner. And that we can't control. One critique I have for feminist social circle is that they turn down too many people, and they ban too easily. It's like they control speech within their circle by limiting what you can say, and who can say it. As an anti-feminist movement, the last thing we want to do is repeat the mistakes. That's why banning should only be used in extreme circumstances, and not as a method of controlling political speech. Freedom of speech is important, and we believe both men and women should have it.

Most of men's rights members do not participate in physical violence against their target group. This is good, because it reduces our need to denounce our members. Don't hit people, don't make death threats, and don't spread lies. That's what I ask.

As it turns out, I used to be consciously open-minded to feminism. I tried for two straight years to communicate with them in honest, respectful discussions. I was banned over 7 times, not for lack of politeness (because I was literally one of the most polite persons on the forum), but for made-up reasons because they literally could not find a better reason to ban me.

I made over 500 replies in feminists forums, many of them were essays. I never downvoted anybody, never insulted anybody, only disagreed with the argument and not the person, and always gave plenty of academic evidence to all my points. I was not part of the men's rights at this time, and Feminists even thanked me for being so respectful.

The first time I was banned, was because I said Christina Hoff Sommers is a feminist. No joke.

I have since stopped conversing with them, because it's clear the mods don't want me around (although many of the feminists enjoy talking with me). It's a shame that the feminists in control make it so hard to have a discussion. Sometimes I wonder if preventing discussion is their way of keeping their ideology intact, as if a few arguments is enough to dismantle their philosophy.

Not only did I converse with feminism, but I also watched about 25 hours of feminist speeches and events directly from their source (not from an anti-feminist reply). I watched the most mainstream events where hundreds of people attended. I'm not one of those people who dismiss ideologies cause my mom told me so. If I want to be for or against something, it is my duty to know what I'm against. I approached feminism with as unbiased a mind as I can humanly approach. I gave it 2 years before I started solidifying my conclusion. I learned about all types of feminism, and studied each individual branch.

And my conclusion is that feminism, in general, is complete trash. And both men and women are better without it.

My girlfriend also has her opinion on feminism, one that she formed before she even met me. And to put it mildly, she hates feminism more than I do.

I'm not one of those people who disagree with all feminists. I listen to each feminist's individual arguments, and make a judgement based on an individual basis. I support a feminist if they make good points, consciously avoid fallacies, give reliable data, is willing to take responsibility, and other traits. I currently have about 5 feminists I support, the top one being Christian Hoff Sommers (God bless her). I don't support feminism as a whole, but I support specific, individual feminists.

There are many misguided opinions on how a movement should operate. It seems that many people associate Men's Rights as an extreme form of misogyny that participates in attacking women, creating conspiracy theories, sending online harassment, and generating hate against women. I'm here to clear this misunderstanding.

1) [Attacking Women] Men's rights almost never participate in physical violence. We already know how disadvantaged men are when it comes to being charged for violence, and how skeptical the public is of men's rights. We don't want to hurt our credibility more than the public is already hurting us. But, more than all these reasons, violence is WRONG. This is also why we try to dismantle the systematic oppression on men that allows women to physically attack men with little consequence, or systems that allow one group to perform unobstructed violence on another group. Compare that to feminism, where feminists (both men and women) will throw thrash at Germaine Greer, another 70+ year old feminist, on all her speeches. If you look carefully, which of the two movement is physically attacking 70 year women from their own movement? Not men's rights, that's for sure. At men's rights, we don't like throwing things at 70 year old feminists. That's one reason why we want to stop feminist in its current form, because it hurts men and women. We're doing women a favour. They can thank us later.

I would believe that between feminism, men's rights, and black lives matter, our movement (MRM) is the least likely to throw punches or generate violence in a real-life protest. I'm proud of this, because violence is almost never the answer and should only be used in self-defense.

2) [Conspiracy Theories] Many people blame men's rights to conjure incorrect statistics in order to make men look disadvantaged. Like every movement, some of us post incorrect statistics either by accident, or on purpose. Perhaps the person is misguided, or malicious, or even a plant from another subreddit. But, we have a lot of fact checkers on board, and when they correct us or bring in constructive skepticism, we reward them with upvotes. Compare this to a feminist thread where the skeptic will almost be guaranteed to be downvoted if not outright banned. Don't forget that "men's rights is stupid" isn't considered constructive skepticism, so don't be surprised if you don't get a lot of upvotes for that.

Most of us do not favour faulty statistics or conspiracy theories. We prefer facts and logic, because truth triumphs over all, as demonstrated by our respect for fact checkers. For example, did you know that there are an even number of boys and girls who are involved in the sex slave traffic? If men and boys are being forcibly prostituted at an equal rate to women and girls, why do feminism, a movement that claims to be based on equality for all genders, claim that sex trafficking is almost exclusively a women's issue?

Feminism is imbalanced, and we need a counter-movement to balance it. The movement that does this role the best, as far as I know, is men's rights. We have an important role in society in order to maintain its balance.

3) [Sending Online Harassment]

This is one touchy subject, because I believe that men's rights is guilty of this if you consider disagreement as harassment (pro tip: it's not). I admit that some misguided and hateful people from men's rights do stalk and send threats. I wouldn't even compare it with other movements, because I don't have statistics on this. I also do know that some people (from all movements) send threats to themselves and claim it's from the opposing end. From what I know, it's very difficult to get accurate statistics on this, because it's the internet. We are all anonymous, and it's impossible to tell the truth intentions of all harassers.

All I can say is, if you're stalking someone, doxing someone, or sending harassment, stop it. As an individual, and as a person who is posting on men's rights, that's the best I can do for now.

But if you're merely disagreeing, then it's 100% fine. You see, disagreement is not harassment, especially when it's done in good tastes. Jokes and satire are also not harassment.

4) [Generating Hate Against Women]

Men's rights attack feminism, not women. We also help men who are disadvantaged. Attacking people on basis on their skin and gender is wrong, but challenging an ideology is not wrong. In fact, the single biggest misconception about men's rights is that the media portrays men's rights as a group dedicated to hating and attacking women. This is not even remotely accurate. Almost all of us respect both men and women. We couldn't care less if our movement was comprised of mostly women. Gender doesn't matter. What matters is equality and fair treatment.

Today's society believes that treating women like a man is misogyny. I'm serious. If you punch women like you would punch men, jail women like you would jail men, ignore women like you would ignore men, etc, then you're participating in the misogynistic behaviour that is equality. When we ask for "worse" treatment of women, and better treatment of men, we're only evening the playing field. We aren't asking for crazy compensations or for people to favour men, just for equal legal treatment.

While I do admit that a few of men's rights do step over the limit, I'm sure you know that all large movements will have terrible people in it. A movement is more likely to expel or excommunicate their members on the reason of conflicting beliefs, rather than on the basis of being a terrible human being.

Edit: I don't agree with Paul Elams approach to activism, and Roosh V' isn't a men's right activist.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]TheMotoManiac points 9 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, one is systematic and legal sexual assault without consent, the other isn't. So in the eyes of the western world, I'd say circumcision is worse than rape. Rape is illegal and carries enormous consequences. Circumcision is done without consent and carries no consequences.

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Not really. I haven't read anywhere if there was any more detailed evidence. The fact that her simply lying about this one detail made the man walk free implies her word and circumstances were the only proof that it was him.

If she had accused both of them, the case would be more complex. There would be a higher need for proof because it's two guys lives being ruined. Her being sexually assaulted only tells us someone assaulted her. Since there was no other proof, there is no reason to believe there was proof pointing to the father or the cop. We would only know that one of them abused the kid, and the other might have,and there would be nothing but a kid's word behind it.

I wouldn't be able to convict either individual, were I a judge, out of concern rhat either may be innocent.

Of course, if there was absolutely any more evidence behind one or the other having performed the rape, I would fully support locking that one (or both) away for life.

[–]orangeblueorangeblue 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]orangeblueorangeblue 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If the truth (going on the assumption that her latest testimony is truthful) had come out in the first trial that her father had also been raping her, it would've allowed that defense strategy, which is only as worthwhile as your victim is untrustworthy. By all accounts, the jury ate up everything she fed them, so they probably would've convicted anyway. In this scenario, the State is going to present the girl as victim of serial abuse, with the defendant as one of the rapists, so it's not like they'd just drop the bomb in the middle of her testimony. It'd be dropped in opening statements, before she took the stand. A marginal "this girl is making up crazy stories about rape and can't be trusted" defense, when you have a victim who testified about her chronic abuse and her injuries which are concrete evidence of abuse, isn't going to save the day.

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[+]gormap18 points 9 years ago [recovered] (70 children) | Copy Link

I hope he sues for unlawful imprisonment and wins at least a million dollars.

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[+]Jaz_the_Nagai points 9 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean by going Law Abiding Citizen?

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[+]vakeraj points 9 years ago* [recovered] (18 children) | Copy Link

Fuck a million dollars. Nothing can make up for 21 undeserved years behind bars, labeled as a pedophile rapist. That man deserves a $50 million. There should be a statue the size of the Washington Monument built in his favor. He should get front row tickets to any concert and sporting even he'd like. He should be given all the hookers and cocaine he wants for the rest of his life.

[–][deleted] 70 points71 points72 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[+]Youregrounded points 9 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

She's a bitch because she didn't admit that her step father raped her before this guy allegedly did?

[–]chuck258 12 points13 points14 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]chuck258 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, the article does say she was raped, by a different man.

I do believe their is room for expansion of laws for people who maliciously make false rape accusations. There's a difference between mistaken identity (such as a woman who might have been loaded with alcohol and sexually assaulted and she names 2 or 3 possible suspects) and knowingly lying (a woman abuses a man in a domestic situation and when cops arrive, she puts on the water works and accuses him of raping her). I'm not trying to hint at this case, but serious changes should be made. If one maliciously accuses another of rape, they really need to face moderate jail time. I'm talking ~2-5 years at a minimum, possible registration as a sex offender (wouldn't be a requirement) and be liable for any and all civil damages from loss of wages to loss of property that resulted from the accusation, etc.

That's just my 2 cents though. I personally feel like false rape accusations are on the rise recently due to the increasing traction and influence of rabid Feminazis that thus far remains unchecked.

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[+]gormap18 points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

If he has any kids or grandkids he could make their lives a bit more comfortable or help pay for college (for grandkids). It can't make up for the lost years, but could help his family in the future.

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[–]blasphemyblack 86 points87 points88 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I am absolutely not a fan of women shitting on men with false rape accusations, however, it's important we all see what's going on in this article.

13 year old girl claims she was raped One portion of testimony is she had not had sex before being raped Had actually been raped by stepfather before but didn't testify to that (keep in mind she's 13) Franklin sentenced to life for potentially violent rape of minor (typically don't get life otherwise) Later discovered stepfather raped her before Franklin. Defense attorney for Franklin has the "gotcha" card and has testimony of 13 year old thrown out. Case is thrown out since it relied on the girl's testimony as evidence.

The title is extremely misleading since there's no indication she "made it all up", just that she lied about not having sex prior. Be careful what you read guys. I'm far from feminist but fuck...

Also... would love a link to the full article to see in more detail what happened here.

[–]cabose4prez 20 points21 points22 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]orangeblueorangeblue 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Your summary was good up until the part about her testimony being thrown out and the case being "thrown out". The guy got a new trial because other testimony that helped convict him was given based on her false testimony (medical experts saying there was no explanation for her injuries other than him raping her, when if they'd known the truth about her father, they couldn't say that).

At the retrial, the accuser got to testify again, but the defense was able to argue that she'd previously testified falsely about whether she was a virgin so the jury should also doubt the truth of the entire rape claim. That impeachment of her credibility as a witness is enough for a jury to find reasonable doubt and let him walk.

I really hope he's actually innocent, and he didn't just walk because a 13yo rape victim tried to cover up the fact that her father had been raping her too...

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[+]lacrosse- points 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

And almost the entire sub eagerly bit the hook, so what's that say about it?

[–]orangeblueorangeblue 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]AtomicFlx points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Did anyone read the actual article

What article? See op is a pile of shit that only posted a picture of a completely false headline and linking to an article would show what an ass he is.

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[+]TheRavenousRabbit points 9 years ago [recovered] (27 children) | Copy Link

I hope she gets brutally gang raped. That would be justice.

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[–]TheRavenousRabbit 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Do you even know what the word MEANS? Draconian is a word that describes an act that is extremely grave in accordance to a minor infraction.

Responding with a beheading to someone who snickered. Cutting off a finger for someone who stole a slice of bread, etc.

This girl ruined a man's life by stealing 21 years of his life and RUINING his reputation. She destroyed not only the life of him, but his family too. If he had any children or lovers, what would they think?

Her acts were gruesome, disgusting and severe.

That deserves a gruesome and severe punishment.

If you don't care about the gang rape, what about 11 years in prison and a smear campaign in the media of her being a total slut? Even THAT would be minor compared to what she did to him.

Yes, she was stupid and young but what she did was deeply wrong and even a 13 year old would've understood their actions. She should've admitted to this after she had turned 18, at the least. But no.

She's a disgusting person. She didn't take responsibility for her actions until the fucking hearing. He lost so many years of freedom due to her.

She deserves a good and brutal gang rape. That would only take away 2 hours of her life and then she could continue doing what she was doing. A fucking BARGAIN for what she did to him.

Or, you know...

Sentence her to 21 years in prison, have her responsible to pay back all the lost revenue from his work, along with payments for all of the damages she's done towards him with his mental state, how the media portrayed him and etc.

Nah, that would be too harsh, wouldn't it? What would, according to you, be apt? 120 hours of community service?

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[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]nokk 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Youregrounded 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]lacrosse- points 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

They don't need to. This sub has a very clear narrative from what I can see and it's not about "men's rights." It's about villainizing women and feeling like a victim. No empathy in this thread at all from a child who was abused, and then didn't even retract that he abused her.

[–]Youregrounded 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]AtomicFlx points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

There is no article, just a picture of a headline... Gee.. I wonder why that is... Perhaps because the headline is complete bullshit.

[–]Youregrounded 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]sxales 47 points48 points49 points 9 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThePedanticCynic 13 points14 points15 points 9 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]ethos1983 20 points21 points22 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Used to work in a psych hospital, specialized on the childrens floor, though when your a 6'2" 250lb vet, they tend to stick you with the more dangerous/adult patients. Because of that, I worked with quite a few patients in their 30's, 40's, and even 50's that were still quite borked by traumatic events in their childhood. One man had been raped by his mother (sorry, had "unwanted sexual contact" with, we all know me are immune to rape ><), and even in his 40's refused to be within arms length of female staff.

When it comes to trauma, physical or mental, it's not as simple as turning a specific age and a switch flips. My guess? She was still petrified of her stepfather, who could get to her apartment/house/where ever. At least, that would be here fear.

Not excusing what she did, just providing context. That "but he/she turned 18, why didn't..." mentality is one that hurts patients quite a bit. Downward spiral, if that makes sense.

[–]sxales 26 points27 points28 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Put_It_All_On_Blck 20 points21 points22 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThePedanticCynic 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]AgentPaper0 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]dontforgetmoney 28 points29 points30 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[+]WH_Autumn points 9 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

No, she should be thrown in prison for just as long. Fuck her. She ruined a man's life.

[–]Nethel 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]issan1mountain 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]darkaris7 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]winkers 46 points47 points48 points 9 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[+]SleepingSheeple points 9 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

I can give you as serious an answer as I know:

No, it is not just Texas, it is all of the United States, and most of Western society.

And no, not just any person can testify and cause someone to get a life sentence. It has to be a young female to testify against almost any male to send him away for life.

Keep in mind that just because he is released from prison does not mean he is free. It means he will be counted as a femenist statistic of "another rapist that go away with it" and he will be perpetually hounded by society until he commits suicide. If he is lucky.

[–]ThePedanticCynic 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jaz_the_Nagai 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pathfinder24 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Nergaal 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]calilac 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nokk 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]winkers 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nokk 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThePedanticCynic 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]orangeblueorangeblue 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do you think he's innocent? The only testimony she changed was that she was virgin at the time this guy allegedly raped her, meaning her injuries could only have been caused by him. She didn't change her story about him raping her, she just finally admitted that she'd been sexually abused by her father before, during, and after the time this crime is alleged to have taken place. If she'd said he didn't do it, there wouldn't have been a retrial. And once you have the ability to impeach the victim's credibility based on prior false testimony, you've got a good shot at reasonable doubt. If she'd given the same testimony she gave at the retrial in the original trial (basically "my father raped me a bunch of times, and one time that guy raped me"), both the father and this guy would be serving life sentences.

[+]Captain_Yid points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm a criminal lawyer in Texas. It's possible but far from typical.

And it can happen in any state - it's long been accepted that a conviction can be based on a single witness as long as the jury unanimously believes that witness beyond a reasonable doubt.

In reality, it's almost never a single witness and, when there is, they have very convincing testimony which the defense cannot rebut.

[–]winkers 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]hitlerallyliteral 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]faithle55 20 points21 points22 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]cabose4prez 28 points29 points30 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Spacyy -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GerrardSlippedHahaha 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jaheiner 24 points25 points26 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kutuup1989 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]stuffZACKlikes 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pyroblock 9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ellis4Life 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Tritonssecret 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]NoNSFWsubreddits points 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Listen and believe, everyone!

[–]equiposeur 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]GoldenGonzo 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MRthrowaway1226 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]illestprodigy 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sanhael 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JAYDEA 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lackofagoodname 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]ZenPyx points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I know, right. It wouldn't be so bad if she admitted it before she was legally an adult (IE 17) so that she would get a shorter up punishment (as if she will ever be punished). But no, just fuck with his life, because you hold all of the power. I hope she pays a lot of money.

[–]Kiwi9293 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Imnotmrabut 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Kiwi9293 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]M_Justice 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Stunner900 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]blasphemyblack 21 points22 points23 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ZenPyx 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]blasphemyblack 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ZenPyx 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]orangeblueorangeblue 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MRthrowaway1226 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Stunner900 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rubenbenjamin 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]baubb points 9 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

How can you give out a life sentence based on testimony alone?

[–]blasphemyblack 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]baubb points 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

It still seems crazy to me that an entire life could be taken away based on "he said she said" alone.

I do see what you mean though.

[–]blasphemyblack 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kevin0wens 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nuesuh 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]doubledongbot 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lmac7 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Imnotmrabut 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]uptokesforall 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ihatefeminazis1 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is what amazes me... It's not that this girl lied... It's the fact that a prosecutor can base a whole trial on one person's testimony... i've always asked this.. what makes a liar not lie under oath? They clearly don't care for it so why would they in this case? Why was this girl not scrutinized the first time around? And then they say people want to protect the victim and they don't want any victim shaming but what about cases like this? It's ok to protect the victim but why should it not be considered a lie till they can prove what she says? They do it for almost every male they can.. This seriously has to stop.. All allegations should be taken seriously in 2 ways.. One is that the person is the victim and is speaking the truth and the other is that this person is trying to get another in to trouble since the system so blindly turns an eye towards women because they are women and they may seem like they get hurt or can cry blah blah bullshit.

[–]heisenberg747 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BenTVNerd21 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]BenTVNerd21 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]atheist4thecause 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]cabose4prez 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Throwawayingaccount 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]captainp42 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]abob619 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CMDR_welder 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FalconGK81 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[+]AtomicFlx points 9 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

The punishment of having her rapest out walking the streets. The picture of the headline is completely fictional. He's still a child raping shit head and the article you can't read because op is a POS would tell you this.

[–]AlonzoCarlo -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SwampSloth2016 -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]pabbseven -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]nuesuh -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]AtomicFlx points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Or you should read the article, oh wait.. op is a POS and only linked a picture of the complete lie of a headline.

[–]nuesuh 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AnnArchist -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cabe565 -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Investi_Pizzagate -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]defmute -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	That's 7665 days.
Author	Name_XVII
Upvotes	7372
Comments	449
Date	January 4, 2017 11:17 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5m2lqn/thats_7665_days/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/thats-7665-days.934629 https://theredarchive.com/post/934629

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