What would a Red Pill alternative from a leftist perspective look like?

Loud_Definition6669 · 2023-03-23T20:52:50+00:00

Leftism is a political paradigm based on class structure, it has very little to say about sexual dynamics. The most that can be said is that women's reproductive labor is exploited or owned under a patriarchal system like the labor of the working class is exploited under capitalism.

TRP isn't even necessarily connected to right wing politics either. It USED to be primarily about picking up women.

Meihuajiancai · 2023-03-23T21:45:51+00:00

Excellent question op.

Many people are taking issue with the left/right blue/red comparison, but it's clearly a thing. And it makes sense tbh. The left views phenomenon through a structural lense. This is why blue pill critiques of modern dating focus on systemic issues like a bad economy, or lack of male role models. The right views phenomenon through an individual lense. This is why red pill critiques of modern dating focus on the individual by promoting self improvement.

The problem is that for a young kid looking at this stuff, the only actionable advice comes from the red pill people.

Tbh it's simultaneously incredibly easy for the blue pill to annihilate the manosphere, but also definitionally impossible for them to do so. All it would take would be acknowledging that some men are broadly more attractive to women and it's because of XYZ and if you don't improve in those areas you're handicapping yourself. Young boys and men aren't stupid, they know that there is clearly a relation between the boys and men who get consistent attention from girls and women. If the blue pill could just be honest, red pill wouldn't exist.

JSears90210 · 2023-03-23T21:21:51+00:00

The left or progressives could not do it. The best that someone can ask for is a centrist almost politically agnostic group of leaders who tried to connect with young men. You need to be honest with them which I don't believe the left would be willing to do. You also need the young men to believe that what you are recommending is in their best interests. Progressives would want young men to be allies and foot soldiers for progressive causes who do not get their own needs met

I think some of the RP or manosphere figureheads have been the first people to point out some glaring issues that men face in the relationship markets. They do a decent job of diagnosis. However, I don't think they have created a good prescription for how to build a consistent happy successful life in society. If a centrist type voice had content and examples of a way forward for young men to build a happy life and some political reforms that young men felt were fair I think they would do well. However, they need to acknowledge the often brutal reality for many young men. The only guy who is a progressive (and I don't like the guy because his business takes are pretty bad) that touches on the issues in the dating market is Scott Galloway. And whenever he does he gets pretty savaged online for it.

bison5595 · 2023-03-23T22:27:18+00:00

Basically be yourself, go to therapy and maybe they might tell you to take a shower and get a haircut

NockerJoe · 2023-03-23T21:29:05+00:00

The thing is if you give someone broad strokes dating advice you need to aknowledge that a largr portion of the people they run into will not be going in on good faith. A lot of the offense isn't just that the men are mean or nasty, but a lot of women adamantly refuse to aknowledge that foodie calls are a thing, or that sometimes you're going to just get ghosted or stood up for no real reason, or that someone will just use you for the attention or vibes and thats it. Then you need to get through to the actual raw mechanisms of attracting someone, or the fact that you'll probably be the one who has to break the touch barrier or escalate.

Theres nothing inherently anti feminist about this but a lot of women will absolutley recoil at the idea that women as a group can somehow do something to men that wasn't justified in some way, or that putting on makeup and standing around doesn't constitute equal effort, or that maybe a large portion of women like something other than clean cut dudes who play by all the social rules.

The problem with "the left" in this case is that "the left" is a cultural establishment that knows it can throw its social weight around and is invested in some variation of current social norms. "The left" we're talking about is the keft of college professors and high profile celebrities that don't care about actual policy so much as a specific social vision where actual attraction between humans is mostly theoretical.

revente · 2023-03-23T21:10:50+00:00

You need to respect women more!

You don't respect them enough!

And get a better haircut!

Your $100 haircut didn't get you laid?

Try harder! Get a $200 haircut!

There are hundreds of horny liberal women, just waiting for a guy who'll respect them! But he needs a good haircut!

Purebredasianbro · 2023-03-24T11:06:23+00:00

I identify my self as quite left wing . Here's my personal pieces of TRP I find useful :

Improve SMV: aka Lift

Improve economic situation: if everyone had more money, they be healthier , happier, and having more kids. They'd also improve their SMV naturally as a result.

Leftist are more for equality. Less economic disparity results in more men having the ability to attract partners.

Improve across to birth control/sex ed/abortion: lower risk of unwanted pregnancy= lower aversion to causal sex = more casual sex . People should have sex for fun.

TRP and Leftist ideology can go hand in hand.

lolthankstinder · 2023-03-23T21:47:45+00:00

r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates! I believe the mission statement will answer all of your questions. It's very different from TRP (hence "leftist"), but I think it's sort of the TRP equivalent for leftist guys that might grow up becoming bitter/resentful due to male-specific issues and/or dating and not really feel at home with feminism or conservatism.

Some excerpts from the mission statement:

Currently, left-wing male advocates feel politically homeless. In existing men's rights spaces, left-wing voices tend to be drowned out by centrist, right-wing, and far-right voices. Existing left-wing spaces are highly censorious against male advocates and routinely demonize us as far-rightists. And it can be difficult to raise this conversation offline because it may mean risking one’s job, sexual/dating prospects, and/or associations with activist groups.

At present feminism is in power and does not allow any other movement to speak. Whenever anyone brings up the aforementioned evidence, the typical feminist reaction is to demonize and censor the critic, because they have to silence any contrary evidence in order to maintain their hegemonic male-demonizing narrative. Because feminism has the most power to set the terms of the debate, and because feminists are so aggressive toward men’s issues advocates, we have no choice but to shut up or fight back against feminism.

Whether we are anti-feminists may depend on your definition of “feminism”. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy defines feminism as making both descriptive and normative claims: “Feminism is grounded on the belief that women are oppressed or disadvantaged by comparison with men, and that their oppression is in some way illegitimate or unjustified.”

We agree with the normative claim to the extent that the descriptive claim is true, but we dispute the degree to which the descriptive claim is true. When you account for both male disadvantages and female disadvantages, particularly today, it is not necessarily clear that women are overall more oppressed or more in need of liberation.

However since this subreddit is founded on egalitarianism, we do agree with those aspects of feminism which we judge to be genuinely egalitarian and based in truth.

CluePublic5213 · 2023-03-24T07:15:38+00:00

Treating TRP charitably, it simply states "women like masculine men; here are some ways to be more masculine and improve your success in dating." Also a lot of other nonsense, but that's the most compelling portion of it. And in itself it's apolitical; there's nothing really anti-left there. You don't even need anything like evolutionary psychology, as women's preference for masculine men may well be socially constructed.

So why does the Left have such a virulent reaction to that observation?

Gender roles exist, and (key point) women enforce gender roles in their mate choice. But feminists are a major constituent of the Left, and that point is really hard for them to accept, because it's taken as a principle that it's men and the patriarchy that create gender roles.

For example, imagine a twinky guy who has lots of friends of both sexes. He has a dynamic personality, is fit and well-dressed, and has his life put together. But he's short and has a feminine personality, and so he struggles with women and asks for help. What response would the prototypical TRPer and feminist make?

TRP: sucks that you're short, dude, it's going to make things a lot harder. But luckily you're most of the way there. All you need to do is perform social masculinity, and that will help a lot. Here's how to do it.

Feminist: it has to be that you're actually basement dwelling scum that hates women. Women just care about finding a caring guy who goes to therapy and certainly don't care about masculinity; most don't care about height, heck even Peter Dinklage has a hot wife. Anyone who's a good person and feminist can find a partner pretty easily, so you must be misogynist and a bad person. So get better.

Note that there's nothing objectionable in what the TRPer says; it's just acknowledging lived experience and pointing out that more behavioral masculinity would solve the issue. But the feminist reacts negatively to the idea that more masculinity would help things (because men bad) or that women themselves are creating the demand for masculinity (because toxic masculinity is the fault of men, not women).

A genuinely leftist perspective easily fits here: just say what TRP says in left-coded language and continue to hold left wing values, pointing out that it's necessary to navigate masculine gender roles as they exist in society today if you want to succeed. And there are plenty of left wing men who do say just that; it's just they don't say it too loudly in left-wing forums, because of the negative reaction feminists have to acknowledging facts on the ground.

DzejSiDi · 2023-03-23T22:53:33+00:00

Damn, that's a hard question.

First to clarify, the left is more collectivistic and equality-oriented. TRP has a natural synergy with lib-right political views. TRP, besides stating "facts", is reactive and targets individual with proposed solutions. You do your work, you succeed/want to succeed, so you want more freedom. You don't want to be restricted by stiff social norms or any other regulations. Don't also forget than men, on average, are naturally more right-wing.

Good starting point would be just forgot that TRP exist and start from evolutionary psychology models. You will "discover" probably very similar facts, but you can try to merge proposed solutions with leftie political ideas. How exactly? No idea, I don't want think too much about this, but let me assure you about 1 thing:

but also wasn't misogynistic?

that would be also labeled as "misoginistic". Big part of western society is brainded and treats everything non-gynocentric as "mysoginy".

Arrathall · 2023-03-23T20:59:08+00:00

Under leftism women can do no wrong so no. We really did saw a woman who performed the ultimate hatecrime combo on a gay man (torture and rape over a week till he succumbed to the torment and died) being invited to womens march as a speaker. This is a parody

Plopolok · 2023-03-23T23:52:00+00:00

Your title says leftist perspective, you question asks for actionable non misogynistic advice. There's a hidden assumption here that the left can't be misogynistic, that misogyny is in the portfolio of the right. It's not wrong, just oversimplified. (Even having one left/right axis is oversimplified anyway). And a strong part of the association between leftism and feminism came from the idea that men were more privileged, which is becoming more contested.

That being said, I think any actionable advice for an individual man on how to be more sexually successful will be in contradiction with leftist philosophy. Women fuck winners, with no regards for how they won, and individually becoming a winner no matter the social cost is rightist. Imo the best that can be done at this point is to start small and give advice on how to navigate the SMP as a group of friends. Bros before hoes, no cockblocking, how to wingman, etc.

beleidigtewurst · 2023-03-24T09:23:54+00:00

It is there right?

1) Toxic masculinity 2) Any problem is caused by evil man conspiracy also known as patriarchy* 3) *some problems are caused by nazi-s** 4) Anyone we dislike can be called racist/misogynyst/nazi*** 5) ***We dislike everyone who doesn't virtue signal how great we are

Holden_Frame · 2023-03-24T10:06:35+00:00

IMO, the closest thing to what this might look like is "Models" by Mark Manson.

He talks about being vulnerable, but in a much different way than most bloops mean.

He talks about it in terms of be vulnerable by not being ashamed of your sexuality or desire and let the chips fall.

I could get on board with that.

Scott Galloway also says similar things.

Acrobatic-Clothes248 · 2023-03-24T11:59:22+00:00

The left has basically no alternative to the red pill. They need to come up with something better than "go to therapy". Make it acceptable for men to show emotions, come up with initiatives and help them. I'm happy some of them are spreading the message that it's ok for men to cry sometimes.

Do something about International Men's Day, for example, you can celebrate men for their positive contributions to the world. If it's okay to celebrate LGBT, non-binaries and women, why do some of you compare IMD to "white pride"? This is not a reactionary movement, get that into your heads!

Put more into positive subs for men. r/bropill is a joke compared to TRP when it comes to influence and reach. What are you doing to prop it up?

The left certainly is in a position of power - but I feel like sometimes they are acting as if they're not. They're happy to help minorities, but somehow believe men should help themselves. Gender really shouldn't matter here, if you see a man struggling, you can't just go and say "well he should go talk to other men". Be there for him.

I've said it a few times, but the problem basically boils down to this:

Everyone agrees men need help, but no one agrees on how to help them.

This narrative only helps the red pill in the long run.

PIBagent · 2023-03-24T14:55:42+00:00

The key big mistake that leftists make when trying to make counter advise against TRP is that they give generally unhelpful advise. For example there is a Youtube leftist F.D. signifier that has a few opinions regarding what makes men desirable and the Manosphere in general:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7Lzh0XlzIA&t=4591s&ab_channel=F.DSignifier

In his stream he goes on an on about what the Manosphere gets wrong about male desirability, etc, etc but when it comes down to what advise he could give in place of RedPill ideology he resorts to the tired cliché of saying "Just be yourself". For those who are unaware "Just Be Yourself" is terrible advice because it could literally mean anything depending on who you ask.

It was more important to him to refute the Manosphere than it was giving helpful advise which is the wrong approach. You could make the entire dating aspect of the Manosphere irrelevant tomorrow if you started giving specific and accurate information to men on how to get into and maintain romantic relationships.

This information would have to be extremely detailed and would need to cover topics such as:

An honest look at the role that looks plays in dating and relationships

An honest look at the role that money plays in dating and relationships

Identifying the best time to approach women

How to approach and talk to women

How to find common interests with women that spur discussion

How to spot abusive & predatory women (spotting red flags in general)

When is the best time to initiate an interaction that is sexual in nature

How to initiate an interaction that is sexual in nature

Understanding what conflict management looks like in a relationship

Understanding when to walk away from a relationship

This advice also has to come from a place of non-judgement (No shaming language, feminist propaganda, etc). If you can't do that you will NEVER win against the Manosphere.

reeko12c · 2023-03-23T21:23:44+00:00

Leftists hate the TRP because it goes against the blank-slate philosophy leftists believe in. TRP refuses to believe we are born genderless slobs molded by society. Gender Dynamics are real and evolutionary, that's the TRP in its entirety.

Progressives use feminism for power. So they also have to attack the jerry springer side of the TRP.

It wasn't too long ago conservatives hated the TRP for all the anti-religious behaviors, anti-tradcon, PUAs, nihilism, sexual liberation, and pointing out the consequences of the unbridled nature of capitalism, but here we are.

neetykeeno · 2023-03-23T22:08:06+00:00

The fight for decent wages, affordable housing and low educational debt burden for all adults must be fought and won so you're not trying to date from your childhood bedroom and any girl who you approach knows that forming a family with you is not a financial impossibility.

NoTea4448 · 2023-03-24T03:11:52+00:00

Oh it's simple:

"The reason why dating is so difficult for men today, is because men are collectively failing. The average man is more likely to drop out of college, is less likely to have a relationship, is more likely to be overweight, is more likely to live with his parents, and is more likely to have never had a girlfriend."

"Men, simply, need to step up and do better."

This is essentially what most of the feminist spaces on Reddit believe anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the most common leftist perspective as well.

Safinated · 2023-03-23T21:07:15+00:00

We don’t need one. Most people are fully capable of understanding that women can be/are shitty and selfish too.

flakybottom · 2023-03-23T21:45:42+00:00

None of the pills are inherently political. People take the information from the pills and come up with their opinions based on it. A far right guy might advocate for controlling women, whereas a far left guy might just want AI girlfriends instead.

****Edit: I'm a moderate left blackpilled guy btw.

Capeninja · 2023-03-23T22:14:18+00:00

I have no idea. I'm a political leftist but I'm also heavily aboard TRP.

I don't see any way of cleaning it up in a way that feminist liberals would accept, at a certain point it becomes narrative over fact with them. Since they want to heavily discourage some of the behavior TRP encourages (for understandable logical reasons) they seem forced to deny or downplay the benefits of them.

And I wouldn't even have a problem with this if there were no consequences, but the average man just isn't inherently attractive enough to be able to afford to dismiss the realities of dating. Women and handsome men can, but if Joe Schmo tries to do the same he ends up foreveralone.

purplish_possum · 2023-03-24T04:13:00+00:00

Just be a leftist who understands women. You'd still be red pill but you don't have to tell anyone.

Kobe_curry24 · 2023-03-24T04:20:09+00:00

Blue pill lmaooo or purple pill

BePrivateGirl · 2023-03-24T05:38:11+00:00

Red pill theory is a sexual strategy. It’s not political. I think healthcare is a human right, wars are bad, racism is wrong, gay people deserve respect, corporations are greedy, religion is stupid and that confident men turn me on.

A lot of people argue that the values of “personal responsibility” make RP intrinsically conservative or politically right leaning.

But right-wing conservatives are fucking dumb hypocritical gullible tools, so they wouldn’t understand red pill values either.

medlabunicorn · 2023-03-24T05:43:04+00:00

No one is denying that humans, including women, are animals. We’re denying that we’re only animals, and that we’re so driven by instinct that we can’t think around it, and that we all have the same instincts, and what those instincts are. We’re not some homogenous population of salmon.

As for a liberal version, it’s basically: figure out how to be good in bed by responding to what the woman you’re with is enjoying, not what you think she should enjoy based on porn. If you’re not looking for a LTR, be up front about it. Wear a fucking condom and don’t take it off until after you’re done. It’s ok if you’re not into ONSs. You can be masculine without being a jackass.

eye_of_gnon · 2023-03-24T06:54:16+00:00

Leftism is by nature, delusional about human differences and therefore cannot be red pilled

satisfiedmind- · 2023-03-24T15:18:54+00:00

You don’t understand why the left dislikes TRP (and bigotry in general).

To go with the simplistic “animal” argument - do you know any dogs or cats? Do they all behave exactly the same? My experience is that they have distinct personalities. Their behaviour is also heavily influenced by their upbringing/training and environment but also innate.

TRP offers something that is very appealing to young men, but it’s not reality. To start with the way they hook you in to it is not ethical. They use the same kind of psychological manipulation as cults do to recruit. No perspective presented in an ethical way will ever be as tempting as one that is heavily manipulative.

In terms of what it’s teaching It is overly simplistic, which is part of the appeal, and the uncomfortable truth is that life just isn’t that simple. Human relationships are complex. The information presented by TRP is not only oversimplified, it’s also based on beliefs that are simply not true. When discussing with TRP key facts are dismissed and everything is twisted to become the woman’s fault. It’s not logical that all problems men experience in dating are women’s fault. What the odds really? That type of absolutism is rarely found in nature.

VehementlyDrawn · 2023-03-23T22:37:32+00:00

I don't think the left can offer anything, because the left advocates that men are evil oppressors and should never have any qualms with anything: "shut up and accept the current state of dating".

iamamoa · 2023-03-23T21:18:57+00:00

Jeez man. Now relationship advice is politicalized to. It feels,like everything in America is politicized now BUT yet Congress still manages to get nothing done.

nonplussedminus · 2023-03-23T21:31:11+00:00

Lefty incels cope with shitloads of porn and prostitutes, I think. Also I know that sexual assault and manipulation is super common in lefty communes because the perpetrator knows the victim won't go to the evil cops.

tvear · 2023-03-23T21:13:11+00:00

Keep the observations about sexual dynamics and behavior, lose some of the cringey language and the unnecessary right wing elements and racism. Still wouldn't be popular with women but it wouldn't have to be so immediately offputting.

Asatmaya · 2023-03-23T21:35:39+00:00

It's pretty widely known that the left hates TRP

It is? I'm pretty far left, but anti-authoritarian, so...

I think that, like so many others, you have "liberal Democrats" confused with "left-wing," when they have pretty much nothing in common.

obviousredflag · 2023-03-23T21:08:28+00:00

Nothing about TRP is conservative or traditional. All of this body count and traditional wife bullshit that is constantly brought up in this sub, all of the "society changed for the worse", hookup culture bashing etc. is NOT red pill. Hypergamy is not science. Promiscuity leading to bonding problems is not science. This is conservative propaganda and has nothing to do with the red pill. Most men do not want virigns. Most women have less than 10 sexual partners in their life. Most men are in relationships and have regular sex.

What people call the truth in this sub is far from it.

MyLastBestChance · 2023-03-23T22:45:48+00:00

N/A. This manufactured “crisis” of some men not being able to get enough easy NSA sex with the women of their choosing isn’t likely to be a target priority for non-grifters.

Creating a guaranteed entitlement/grievance/resentment loop is certainly profitable but only for the blatantly manipulative and opportunistic.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-03-23T20:56:44+00:00

political people hate a quarantined internet “philosophy”?

LaborAustralia · 2023-03-23T22:39:34+00:00

This is a really interesting question. I hesitated in answering it because I feel like any reasonable answer I give will be responded with “but that’s not what the left does”, regardless I will give it a shot.

Firstly as another commenter pointed out, ‘the left’ is a broad series of political philosophies that mainly focus on a societal analysis of class conflict, or challenging other similar oppressive structures. The Red pill is a series of reactionary internet beliefs about the qualms of men’s dating life. It really isn’t a philosophy. The red pill isn’t really conservative or traditional either. It’s fundamentally adheres to the status que social standards of neoliberal western society with bigotry sprinkled in.

You cannot “spin plates”, sleep around or have a bunch of girlfriends in a traditional or conservative society. You can’t “work on your body and get game”, to get girls in a traditional society. You also can’t sleep around then masquerade in a ‘trad marriage’ when you settle down. The ability to have sex before marriage, legal adultery, not to have be chaperoned by older adults while courting, or not be given an arranged marriage.. were all progressive values.

The red pill believes that men’s dating woes are caused by the sexual revolution opening Pandora’s box on the women’s so called ‘true nature’ (hypergamy). A left wing explanation of current dating woes would be that neoliberal capitalism is causing society to become increasingly atomised and isolated, with the distruction of 3rd places and the cultural emphasis on individual (instead of the community ties). Furthermore that this isolation and atomisation causes an overreliance on artificially designed for profit dating apps which bastardised the dating systems. Social media sites(companies for profit- Instagram etc) are further accelerating body image issue; which make people mental ill.

So in essence, a left wing approach would be to target broader societal problems. Macro vs micro.

If a left wing community took on a micro approach to solving dating woes, it would probably look something like this:

A mirrored left wing red pill would be somewhat similar to the red pill: 1. instead of an emphasis on evolutionary psychology it would have an emphasis on the accepted literature in psychology/ sociology (these are NOT the same as ‘blue pill’ mainstream dating advice) 2. Pseudo science about women would be absent 3. A less dark triad approach would be taken, with a greater emphasis on authentic healthy and loving emotional relationships without the doomerism 4. Probably more of an emphasis on bdsm communities and polygamous communities (or other broadly left wing sub culture) for sexual exploration.

LucifersForkedPenis · 2023-03-24T20:23:42+00:00

Incredibly exhausting to hear all the strawman versions of what the left/feminists ACTUALLY think. TRP ideology bugs me because it tends to dehumanize both women AND men, reducing everything to data and statistics and shit.

Start by admitting that relationships, not just romantic ones, are complicated (just like people) and always conditional. Yes, it is just as tiresome to hear women make sweeping generalizations about men as it is to hear men do it. No one group is completely evil, and everybody is reactionary.

If a young man is having trouble starting relationships with women, it is likely a combination of things both systemic and actually in your control. A large part of initial attraction is physical, yes, but the actual success of a relationship isnt based on whether or not you can do traditionally masculine shit like throw big rock, be tall, grow facial hair. Maybe that stuff will help you get your foot in the door, but if two people aren't making each other feel valued, that shit won't last. Period. Why should it?

So you start by doing things that constitute self-improvement. Going to the gym, socializing with both men and women to grow your circle. Be willing to have platonic friends that are women. This helps both with the anxiety of socializing with women and as a social vetting process for other women to know that you have a mixed friend group. Explore existing or new hobbies, especially if this allows a third place. Get off of dating apps. Have genuine conversations with people. Avoid women who are misandrists, shallow, casually mean, no personal goals or hobbies of their own, poor communicator, literally not worth your time. Yes, you're allowed to have standards of your own, add to the list. Respect your own time and peace cause you're the only one who will.

Once you've met a decent woman who shares mutual interest, be clear about what you want out of a relationship. Your values have to align. Can't agree about basic stuff like children, marriage, pets, finances, etc.? It is best for both parties to end things at this point. Every person has different past experiences that shape their current emotional needs. This is something that must be fulfilled by both parties, or resentment will grow. A lot of work coming from both sides. If you are not able to make one another feel safe, cared for, important, it will not last.

There are no quick and easy solutions to something as complex as making relationships work. Yeah maybe that's frustrating, but when is anything truly rewarding ever quick and easy?

I wish luck to you guys. I have pretty much only male friends, so it really does hit hard to hear that so many men out there are suffering in silence.

flosterjenkins · 2023-03-25T03:05:13+00:00

Red pill, with all the same ideas but without the misogyny, IS "blue pill". Almost everyone knew that looks, financial security, and confidence matters, but redpillers pretend they discovered those ideas. The only difference is that they added misogyny to it.

Without the misogyny, you just get "get social skills, have financial security and go to the gym" from redpill. That's groundbreaking, truly.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-03-23T21:57:14+00:00

Meaningless platitudes are what conservatives grow up with. Red-faced authoritarian men screeching from the pulpit while encouraging hate against perceived rivals is the core.

It will never work. The left enjoys the hell out of women’s company and enjoys the benefits of accepting that most humans enjoy sex.

TRP enjoys that delicious misogyny and the agony and shame of the Madonna Whore complex. Shame is a feature, not a bug.

flawy12 · 2023-03-23T22:01:38+00:00

The left does not dislike TRP bc it is critical of women.

They dislike it bc they use pseudoscience to try and argue that "traditional values" are evolution.

The reality is the science is nuanced...especially in the nature vs nurture debate.

If the left wanted to help young men that is what they would do.

Offer productive advice to men to improve themselves...not try to tell them that they are default superior and if women don't agree that is a plot against masculinity.

reeko12c · 2023-03-24T04:05:08+00:00

Let's say someone on the left wanted to make a competitor to TRP that would be enticing to young men and help solve their dating problems.

-For starters, admit there are only two genders. (good luck with that though)

-Stop villainizing masculine role models. (good luck with that though.)

-Acknowledge young men are in a struggle and need help. (good luck with that though because feminists refuse to fold on this because the feminist agenda needs a villain and to justify the misandry.)

Now here's what would truly separate red-pill right-wingers and red-pill left-wingers:

-Rightwingers like Tate and F&F tell men to pick themselves up from the bootstraps. Rugged hyper-individualism. Level up. Nobody is coming to save you. Seek god. Make as much money as possible. Don't rely on the Gov, unplug. Don't join the military. Enjoy the decline. Ok great.

A leftwing perspective should entail more collectivist solutions and less individualism.

-A leftwing: Seize the means of reproduction! Just kidding. Humanity is not that desperate...... yet.

Collectivist solutions mean more government action, not small government. (full disclaimer: I'm not a collectivist, so I don't agree with the following examples)

Example. Gov policy to control, coerce, and incentivize high-value men to stay monogamous, so that they don't kill the game for the average folk. Rightwingers, especially tradcons, try to do this with religion but, according to the red-pill, we now live in a post-religion, post-marriage society. So society should be reimaged without the idea of religion. Top-tier men now run wild and they need to be tamed to a degree.

And more gov coercion to do some about simps who also ruin the game for the average young man. Maybe legalize prostitution, and frame the opposition as religious oppression or some bs, I don't know. If simps got laid more, I don't think they would be as thirsty to inflate the ego of women.

Example. Heavily, heavily regulate social media and force tech giants to tweak the algos, so that social media isn't addicting for women and simps somehow get shadowbanned for being thirsty. Ban porn. Force tech giants to facilitate healthier habits, something like what China does. Ai can help a lot here. A dark side of Capitalism is that women can capitalize on their bodies, so they'll do it. Put rules and regulations to manage the unbridled nature of capitalism, like China.

Example: Government programs that are exclusive for men. Something similar like the military comes into mind, or reconstruct and rebuild the idea of high school/some college with more emphasis on positive masculinity, anger management, risk management, self-defense, trades, and community formation plus leadership. Male teachers only.

Let's say someone on the left wanted to make a competitor to TRP that would be enticing to young men and help solve their dating problems. What would this look like? How would you formulate this so that young men didn't just see it as yet more meaningless platitudes and offered actionable advice, but also wasn't misogynistic?

TLDR

Basically more collectivism and less individualism solutions to solve the societal problems the red-pill exposes.

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Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-03-23T23:53:19+00:00

Some leftist ideologies are in favour of socialism and I think socialism would favour men sexually over capitalism- where people are atomized from one another and forced to act in solely their own interests.

2023-03-24T00:07:47+00:00

one problem is that horny male psychology is not a welcome reality to acknowledge in leftist spaces

JumboJetz · 2023-03-24T00:15:43+00:00

A leftist would look like polyamorous circles maybe. If you are OK with your woman fucking other men than there are more women in general to go around.

Financial_Window_990 · 2023-03-24T01:55:51+00:00

Huh? TRP is left. Feminism is far right.

Feminism = a far right extremist fascist supremacist movement who use the rhetoric of Nazis and the KKK right down to quoting Mein Kampf. TRP = A fact based scientific analysis of the behavior patterns of the female homo sapien presented in colloquial terms. Often connected to men's rights, an egalitarian movement centered around equality of the sexes.

totallyworkinghere · 2023-03-24T02:25:49+00:00

Maybe don't call women animals if you don't want to be perceived as misogynist.

But to your point, the leftist circles I'm in actually do give actionable advice, to everyone: Go to therapy. Everyone's problems are unique, and the absolute best solution is going to be one individually tailored to you.

I'm not sure what would be enticing to young men exactly but dating advice that would work? Having men see that dating and sex are not the only things that matter. When you're so focused on fucking it becomes nearly your entire personality, and the only personality a woman sees, why in the world should she like you?

Every woman has a different preference for looks, but nearly every woman is attracted to confidence and a kind heart. Cultivating those features instead of learning how to fake them for pussy should be the goal.

KayRay1994 · 2023-03-24T02:33:18+00:00

FD Signifier, Noah Samson, Hassan Abi and Foreign Man In a Foreign Land are all great leftist creators that do a good job debunking the redpill from a primarily masculine perspective, and ultimately do a good job explaining feminism in a way men can understand and they do a good job explaining why the established systems hurt men as well - as far as dating advice goes, frankly anything more than take care of yourself, work on regulating yourself emotionally and work towards being the best version of yourself there is really no advice that’s widely applicable. These creators don’t give advice per say, but their content is great for general perspective on dating, dealing with the opposite sex, etc and with time you’ll find that you won’t need direct dating advice because frankly, you’ll become a better person all around.

SeemedGood · 2023-03-24T02:53:45+00:00

How would you formulate this so that young men didn't just see it as yet more meaningless platitudes and offered actionable advice, but also wasn't misogynistic?

You can’t because good and effective actionable advice requires an acknowledgment that the societal WAWE is false, and the minute you critique women’s behaviors your analysis will be viewed as “misogynistic” by the left.

bodaciousbonsai · 2023-03-24T03:00:07+00:00

TRP is apolitical.

despisedlove2 · 2023-03-24T04:18:41+00:00

I think you mean feminism.

Khanluka · 2023-03-24T06:19:29+00:00

Left and right wing have noiting to do with blue or red or black pill.

I know plenty of each poltical side that believe in both. And many poster here have said the lean more leftwing then right wing.

AceArguments · 2023-03-24T15:59:43+00:00

because god forbid anybody actually say women are animals and, as animals, can be fairly predictable and follows certain patterns as any dimorphic animal does.

Would you say that men are animals and therefore can be fairly predictable and follow certain patterns as any animal does?

EugeneCezanne · 2023-03-24T20:25:50+00:00

I don't know how to sell it to the kind of frustrated young men who would buy into TRP. But I am a leftist with a lot of dating advice that guys I've talked to far away from TRP circles have tended to like. The problem is that guys who already believe in TRP believe in TRP. Offering them any non-TRP advice means pushing against their existing, and usually pretty deeply inscribed, beliefs. And that's not fun for either of us.

QncyFie · 2023-03-25T08:45:37+00:00

Red pill behavior for the most part but without the cringy theory crafting

resultsmatter1 · 2023-03-26T23:39:28+00:00

I’m left of center and trp/bp is truth

What would a Red Pill alternative from a leftist perspective look like?

Comments

Between talented and promising, but rather poor guy and the mediocre rich offspring from some family, most women would opt for the former.

Title	What would a Red Pill alternative from a leftist perspective look like?
Author	questioningfeminist
Upvotes	37
Comments	343
Date	March 23, 2023 8:46 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11zwt1c/what_would_a_red_pill_alternative_from_a_leftist/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-would-a-red-pill-alternative-from-a-leftist.1186555 https://theredarchive.com/post/1186555