CMV: Most men are totally okay with waiting to have sex, but they're scared of being friendzoned so they feel pressured to make moves on dates

Zestyclose_Truth9999 · 2023-05-05T15:33:26+00:00

Welcome to modern dating!

On the other side of things: a couple of friends felt "pressured" into having sex with men way before they were ready, because they assumed the guys would move on if they weren't served sex on a platter ASAP.

Shocker, a few of them felt "fuckzoned" by guys that had no intention of seriously dating them.

But here's the thing about "friendzones" and "fuckzones" ——> no one's putting you in them. You can leave at any time, by just getting some self-respect and leaving a situation that doesn't benefit you.

If someone doesn't want a relationship with you/is feeling "meh" about you, it doesn't matter if you wrangle them into bed on the first/second/third date or not.

DutifulRye696 · 2023-05-05T16:03:17+00:00

Personally I'm not realistically going to turn a pretty woman down if she comes onto me (unless she's drunk or there's some reason it would be unethical, obviously).

I'd say physical touch and affection is more important to me than sex since that's my love language, but I'd like her to show sexual interest in me as well.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-05-05T15:52:45+00:00

You're certainly not just friends if you're touching in other ways, or even having dates and other romantic interaction, but just not having sex. This doesn't explain any push for sex in particular.

MetaCognitio · 2023-05-05T18:00:10+00:00

I’d certainly be fine waiting a few months or whatever but I’m also afraid of being the guy she makes work for everything while there is someone else she is crazy about.

I’d prefer to take things slow but men are always under pressure to accommodate her emotions at the expense of their own.

This all is why women attract and pick assholes. The guys that really are in to what they want are usually crappy guys.

zaph239 · 2023-05-05T19:04:38+00:00

I am cynic when it comes to most things or the way I see it, I see things how they actually are. If a woman truly desires a man there is none of this waiting non-sense, she can't wait to jump in the sack with him.

If she is waiting it is because sex has become transactional. She doesn't really desire the guy, what she actually wants is a husband, provider and father for her children. Such a relationship is doomed because sex without desire will poison that relationship.

It leads to the classic dead bedroom marriage. The husband baffled about why his sex life has collapsed to nothing just after or even during the honeymoon. Sure it comes back, when she wants a sperm donor or perhaps a new kitchen but sex in that relationship is transactional.

It is not a source of pleasure but a price a woman has to pay, an annoying chore she has to perform to keep the marriage going and have a breadwinner.

A relationship without desire is one which men should avoid because it is potentially very expensive and toxic trap.

NationalistGoy · 2023-05-05T15:06:42+00:00

I would be ok to wait a bit for sex if the woman in question hasn't been a slut throughout her life up to the point she met me and suddenly she wants to wait for sex. If she was in fact a slut but now wants to wait for sex with me, then that makes me the beta bux, and no man wants to be a beta bux.

MistyMaisel · 2023-05-05T16:07:52+00:00

I think this is probably true for some men, certainly. (Most, I would tend to doubt. I think most men don't really want to wait or have a relationship more so when they are young). I do think think it reflects a kind of masculine brain-space that thinks like, romance is just sex with some sort of dumb girly shit added in. And that unless you put your penis inside her, she probably thinks you're just like a cute friend who has no attraction to her.

The truth is, you can totally not get put in the friendzone, without having to turn things immediately sexual. You just have to flirt regularly, make romantic gestures regularly, and see the escalation of physical contact as having more steps.

Like, it seems like most men's idea of sexual escalation is like:

Touch her on the shoulder, leg, or head
Kiss
Make Out
Fingers/Touching Below the Belt
Fucking

And as a woman, I would encourage you to consider adding in like a lot of steps so that it looks more like (and obviously some steps could be changed somewhat based on what different women see as more or less intimate):

Eye contact that lasts a little too long
Making her blush
Making her blush consistently
Touching her shoulder or leg
Touching her head, neck, or head/hair
Hugging
Holding Hands
Being able to mention you think about them outside of your time together in a romantic way and receive a positive response
Rough-Housing Physically
Arm around shoulder
Kissing their cheek
Kissing them
Giving them a small token of affection
Snuggling (honestly, I could break this down into sub-categories of escalation until it becomes ->
Cuddling (honestly, I could break this down into sub-categories of escalation)
Massage
Playing with hair (especially for women, it's quite a thing for us to let a man touch our hair, play with our hair, or stroke it. The potential for pain or nuisance is pretty high. If I'm letting a man mess with my hair, we're probably all but married in my brain if things go well).
Making Out
Kissing or Affection which is incredibly public
Fingers/Touching Below the Belt
Some sort of Discussion of relationships and readiness for sex or expectations prior to sex and what that sex means about you guys
Sex

And being honest, I could go on, but again, I think men somehow fail to recognize that you can VERY easily indicate this is not a platonic relationship by how you do things and the things you do without it being like, first I kiss then I fuck.

And like, the idea that she's kissing you, but if you don't get sex you'll be friendzoned is just insanity. Women are not kissing men they're friends with. You can spend months at kissing and making out and petting and know you are not friendzoned. If you've gotten to kissing, you're romantic. You may yet fail to secure a relationship or sex, but you are not "in the friendzone". Men don't have to escalate to sex to know they aren't in the friendzone.

toasterchild · 2023-05-05T15:28:06+00:00

I don't date men so that i can have more friends to hang out with, its for relationships that include more... like genuine sexual interest. If you don't have interest in kissing in the first few dates then that just seems weird to me. Is this maybe an asexuality sort of thing? I would rather just date a guy who's actually into me than someone who's just kissing me cuz he feels he has to.

I don't think you should feel pressured to do anything you don't want to, i think you should specifically look for someone who has a similar time table.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-05-05T16:38:44+00:00

I think this fear can be real, but everyone today seems to forget that there is a lot of room in between “acting like a platonic friend,” and “let’s jump in bed right now.” You always want to call it a date for one thing, you’re not “hanging out.” This is usually the kind of stuff that gets you friendzoned. Knowing when to make a move toward kissing and physical touch can be difficult, and really depends on the people involved. But things like kissing firmly establish that you are not just friends, you don’t have to move immediately to sex.

Women face a similar dilemma in not knowing when to have sex with a guy for the first time. We fear he’ll lose interest if it’s too soon OR too late. It truly sucks that people can’t just have sex whenever both are truly ready, and both are usually more concerned with how they’ll be perceived than when the time feels right.

I don’t have a perfect solution for this, but in general I would say go at your own pace. Don’t pressure but also don’t be afraid to make a move when things seem to be going in that direction. If the other person bails because you waited too long, they probably weren’t that interested or just aren’t compatible.

Ok_Tomorrow_3963 · 2023-05-06T00:08:25+00:00

I totally agree with you that it's not the horn-dog thing. I personally would love to wait a few months if the conditions were right for that. They're not in this day and age.

But my main aversion isn't being friendzoned so much as being buxxed. Just being used for romantic attention and fun dates when she doesn't want to jump my bones. Women can do that because they can just sit back and enjoy being courted, but it's a lot of work that I would never do for a chick who isn't crazy over me.

karmakiller3001 · 2023-05-05T22:00:56+00:00

"Most men are totally okay with waiting to have sex,"

yes because, bottom dwellers in the 80% percentile have no choice. Either they downgrade for easy sex or upgrade and need to wait until they are granted permission.

Top 20% dating is extremely different. Not only do you not have to do this dance, but the woman usually initiate and/or allow sex immediately regardless of desired outcome.

Most times sex is promised even before meeting.

Dating only exists because people fail to seal the deal before meeting.

Whether they make a move or not is irrelevant. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't if you don't know you're own value. Some women will consider it too aggressive if you do it too early, and others will consider you weak if you wait too long.

The trick is to know your worth and be sure that she acknowledges your worth before you even meet. Then know when to cut your losses. The sooner men learn how to take or leave ANY relationship, the sooner they move higher up the food chain.

Dating is an unnecessary waste of time whether the end game is sex or relationship. In both cases, if the girl doesn't want to jump you the moment she see's you, she's already got the high ground and you're going to be the guy who has to wait for something that may never come...with the knowledge that the 20% guy before you got to smash the first night and put zero work into it.

This is why you MUST date multiple women at the same time. Oneitis is the worst disease known to man.

LillthOfBabylon · 2023-05-05T15:18:42+00:00

People are people. It's really that simple. If you guys can't agree on the timeline of sex, JUST LEAVE. You guys aren't compatible.

KayRay1994 · 2023-05-05T16:51:34+00:00

the concern is def real, and it is something i do tend to struggle with a ton - ie. when do i make a move, how do i flirt, etc etc - but i guess the good news is that if you’re going on dates consistently enough you’ll be able to figure it out - its a learning process, and if one girl assumes you’re not interested and kinda puts you in a “no sex” mental box, there’ll be others - and many women do struggle with something similar, ie. if they make the first move or do too much they fear being seen as easy or not relationship material - so both parties are under immense pressure to be perceived a certain way and that ain’t fun for anyone.

LoopyPro · 2023-05-05T15:08:41+00:00

Regardless of what the man wants, if she makes him (opposed to other high SMV men) wait for sex, it indicates that she doesn't see him as high value. Men know that high SMV men generally never have to wait.

The only way to make a man wait for sex without implying that he's low value for her is to be consistent and make everyone wait. Flooding the market (status quo in the west) caused men to use 'waiting time' as an indicator for her attractiveness/arousal towards him.

aryamagetro · 2023-05-05T15:47:32+00:00

you’ll be blocked if you try to “make a move” too soon actually. not being patient with sex is a red flag for most women.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-05-05T15:50:48+00:00

Depends on the person he is dating. If she’s sexy and behaves in a flirty manner, she’s probably interested in the same. If she’s modestly dressed and behaving in a cautious, conservative manner, it’s the opposite.

Shouldn’t men be figuring out a little more about their dates instead of applying the same moves on everyone regardless of their comportment?

Soggy_Head_4889 · 2023-05-05T16:19:14+00:00

I know what you mean. My experience with modern dating is I'm far less likely to get a second date if I don't at least make a move on the first date. Doesn't mean sex actually has to occur, but the majority of women seem to want you to at least try.

nocturne098 · 2023-05-05T17:49:34+00:00

it's not necessarily just sex, it's just that i feel a burden that i (man) need to initiate everything, plan everything, follow up texts, initiate a second date, make a move to progress things etc etc.

it's just usually if you're a guy if you do nothing nothing 'll happen. she'll just assume you're not interested by not texting first every single time, she'll come to that conclusion based on men are supposed to do (.....) and girls sit back and leave it up to others

all this shit is a headache. the solution is to be somewhat of a normal person and handle it like one.

Treacle-Flimsy · 2023-05-05T17:59:33+00:00

Yes, absolutely, but I disagree with you on the reasoning. The main reason is that you don't have enough information to what's going on on her side of things so you need to assume the worst

grown_folks_talkin · 2023-05-05T18:04:37+00:00

Yeah not for fear of being friendzoned, but to make sure she knows I’m interested/want a second date.

I’m basically never ready to fuck or even kiss on the first meet but learned if you don’t try to kiss the assumption is you’re not attracted.

MGTOWManofMystery · 2023-05-06T01:10:31+00:00

Perhaps. But if she isn't trying to bed you on the first date, then she's not genuinely attracted to you.

Dagenius1 · 2023-05-06T16:16:34+00:00

I’ll say this every time a variation of this question comes up because some people need to hear it…

Men are totally ok to wait to have sex provided that he is interested in her and she is clearly interested in him. Simple. Guys that are disappearing after the 2nd or 3rd date do so because they aren’t sure you’re interested.

If a guy can’t tell by her actions that a woman is interested by the 3rd date, there shouldn’t be a 4th. No those actions don’t mean sex. It means a woman who is not sitting back passively the whole time and letting the man pursue while she decides if she likes him or not. It’s a woman that’s into him like he is into her

decoy88 · 2023-05-06T18:01:38+00:00

Men feel pressured in multiple ways. I’d say most would still be happy to fuck though.

PatienceOk3159 · 2023-05-06T19:03:00+00:00

Honestly I’ve had the most success with the first date. If I don’t close on the first date it’s usually a long time before I get a chance to have a second date.

SwinginPastMyKnees_ · 2023-05-05T15:30:42+00:00

Even women confirm that they know if they want to sleep with a man by the end of the first date. Why should men spend multiple dates and/or weeks only to find out she was using him as a foodie call and/or wasn't actually physically attracted to him? Might as well move things forward early on to make sure there is that sexual attraction on both sides.

wtknight · 2023-05-05T14:57:05+00:00

I don’t think that high value men are okay with waiting for sex. When other men do have to wait for sex, this is a signal to them that they are not high value. This is especially concerning to them if they know or later discover that the woman who made them wait for sex did not make other men wait for sex.

Women could stop this issue by choosing not to have sex quickly with some men while making others wait.

I don’t think that it’s a fear of being friendzoned so much. If women made every man wait for sex, then friendzoning would still be something that existed, but men would know that immediately putting the moves on a woman would have no sexual benefit.

Scarce12 · 2023-05-05T15:34:08+00:00

TBH, I don't think men should feel any pressure to make moves but instead cool it and pursue another woman.

However, in my experience women actually get angry toward men for not pursuing them.

There is a form of sexism there, but I suppose the adage "don't stick your dick in crazy" applies, and you have to wonder that if a woman gets angry at you for not pursuing her, is she a bit crazy?

I should add that it is true, the red pill idea that women will go to extraordinary lengths ro have sex with an alpha.

You should know that the three date rule isn't about esculating on the third date, the rule is actually about not going on the fourth date.

caobozo · 2023-05-05T15:34:40+00:00

what does kissing have to do with sex?

SteveSan82 · 2023-05-05T23:44:28+00:00

Unless she is a virgin, I expect sex on the first date. If there is no sex, there is no second date. It’s very let disrespectful that she gave it to other guys but is immaturely playing games making me wait. Virgins have an excuse.

Ppdebatesomental · 2023-05-06T12:25:34+00:00

drive things in a sexual direction

If this isn’t established early the relationship probably won’t go anywhere. Waiting for sex =/= waiting to express sexual interest.

Nothing is more anxiety inducing than being in the middle of a 3rd date without having pecked yet.

If I’vebeen on a third date without even a kiss, I’m bringing my new boyfriend on our 4th “ date”.

OpticalEpilepsy · 2023-05-05T15:30:49+00:00

It's not a date if there's also a threat of friendzone. She understands you are romantically interested in her if she's willing to go on a date with you. If she tries to say "By date I thought you meant just hang out as friends not like a romance date" she's being disingenuous

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no202 · 2023-05-05T19:52:03+00:00

Nah, a lot of them are just horn dogs and have zero self control.

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-05-05T21:34:10+00:00

I have a theory that a lot of men, including myself, feel pressured to drive things in a sexual direction while dating or else we'll wake up to a "I think you're a great guy, but I'm just not feeling it" text message.

Which is dunderheaded. If a woman is attracted to you, she's attracted to you. Doesn't matter if you make the move now or in 5 years (assuming you don't radically alter your appearance).

The reason you make moves fast is to sort out who's actually attracted to you and who isn't, not because if you 'wait to make a move,' she'll magically lose attraction.

metasekvoia · 2023-05-05T16:59:38+00:00

Why is "friendzone" so bad? Because it hurts to be around someone you love but cannot be with? Or because you didn't actually like her for reasons other than sex anyway?

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L9L28Gw1 · 2023-05-05T20:45:17+00:00

Scary sccurate

Updawg145 · 2023-05-06T05:32:19+00:00

I agree, though I do think it's a tricky balancing act. For reference, my current gf (who I'd probably say I have a solid 80% chance of going the distance with at the moment), we never did the deed till three months in, which is astronomically long for what I'm used to (not trying to brag, it just always seemed natural to have sex within like 3-5 dates).

During that time I was very close to bailing on the relationship several times because I got the impression she wasn't really into me. Also before you've "sealed the deal", I find it's very difficult to even talk about the seriousness of a relationship without coming off presumptuous or insecure. But maybe that's just my own issue.

Anyway, turned out being patient was actually the best decision I could have made but, my younger, less patient self would have definitely aborted mission and missed out. So overall I agree.

Old-Condition-119 · 2023-05-06T06:18:48+00:00

Yeah, you're sort of right. It also makes us (me) feel unattractive. "Why isn't he trying... other guys are usually tooo fast, but then WHY is he dating me at all?? Is this just to waste my time and stop me from dating other guys who actually fancy me!? Maybe there's someone else he's currently fucking and he's just warming me up for when her and him end then he's going to take me to the next level. Maybe he actually wants ME to initiate? Oh my god what if he's doing that so that I do initiate and then he's going to humiliate me.

Ffs I keep shaving my vagina and butthole for nothing. Why would he take me out if he's not interested, well I must be that ugly he's not sure he can go through with it. He doesn't really like me I bet he's just really desperate for sex but can't bring himself to actually touch me. I bet if I was hotter he would have already done something. It's cos I'm fat.

Maybe he's really nervous? what if he's not and it's one of the above. OH MY GOD I CAN'T COPE. I bet he's just trying to work out if he can do better. I'm gonna friendzone him, pffft making me an option while he pits me against his other dates, fuck that I'm way too insecure!! Yeah I am not feeling this. I bet he wants to politely friendzone me and he's leaving it upto me to say it. I must be in the friendzone."

THIS IS WHAT I HATE ABOUT GENDER ROLES.

userhasleftchat · 2023-05-06T09:17:33+00:00

I don’t really recall losing interest/attraction to a man as a direct result of him not making sexual moves on me. There was one guy I had been casually dating for a while with whom I never ended up having sex with - but that was due to reasons beyond just his lack of sexual mojo.

If I’m attracted to a man, I wouldn’t lose interest/write him off just because he didn’t make a move on me unless I’m not getting any signals of interest from him at all in the form of flirting, compliments, eye contact/body language, stimulating conversation, affirmations of wanting to spend more time together, etc.

In my past dating experiences as a woman, I have been the one to make the moves on a man plenty of times. I don’t think I ever initiated out of fear of them losing interest however.

This apparent issue of the so-called “friend-zoning” of a man by a women due to lack of sexual interest shown from him on initial dates doesn’t really make all that much sense to me because imo, a guy only gets friend-zoned if a gal isn’t sexually interested in him.

Basically, if you get friend-zoned, you never really had a great chance with her in the first place. I feel like some men just give asexual vibes in general and an awkward first date kiss isn’t going to make things any better.

Ohmaygahh · 2023-05-06T14:03:08+00:00

CMV: Most men are totally okay with waiting to have sex, but they're scared of being friendzoned so they feel pressured to make moves on dates

Oh this is an easy CMV. I'm a man, I'm not okay waiting to have sex. It's not because I'm "scared" of being friendzoned, it's because if I go see a woman with any romantic intentions, it's because i want to ram my cock inside her pussy/ass/mouth and fuck her into the next dimension.

Safinated · 2023-05-06T14:55:41+00:00

No, they want it to be “fair” and uniform, according to the men here. Sexual socialism, in other words

PatienceOk3159 · 2023-05-06T19:02:06+00:00

100%

AFuzzyMuffin · 2023-05-07T03:20:47+00:00

You are more than likely right OP, I had a whole thread on this and basically every guys response was sorta like this. I will say the trick if you want no pressure, is to tell her you kiss on X date, but only after you get to know her, basically you turn the situation from can I kiss her to...should I kiss you and why?

daddysgotanew · 2023-05-07T11:41:53+00:00

Simply not true. I prefer first date sex. Those women are the most fun and memorable. When a woman is hot and heavy for you, there’s no other feeling like it. I barely remember or think about those “order of operations” girls that were like hug first date, dry kiss on the second, and sex on the 4th or 5th once she finally got over her neuroses about sex but still acted wierd. Boringggggggg.

Give me the girl that shows me nudes on her phone at the bar and then asks to go for a ride in my car so she can give me road head on the way back to my apartment….

harmonica2 · 2023-05-07T16:49:13+00:00

I would say this is totally true for me. When I waited longer to have sex, I got friendzoned. But then I tried doing it sooner and the woman was locked down with me sooner and wanted me in a relationship afterwards.

-royalmilktea- · 2023-05-07T19:49:57+00:00

Even if some dudes feel that way, they're idiots. The better strategy is to be kinda sensual and interested, but not push for sex immediately. Make her want it. You can act romantic/not platonic without just acting thirsty

ragman75 · 2023-05-07T22:37:23+00:00

no most men are ok with wating if the girl makes everyone wait, if she doesnt make everyone wait or you cant believe she makes guys wait then no guy wants to wait.

Title	CMV: Most men are totally okay with waiting to have sex, but they're scared of being friendzoned so they feel pressured to make moves on dates
Author	AudaciousPanther
Upvotes	265
Comments	254
Date	May 5, 2023 2:47 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/138qgu2/cmv_most_men_are_totally_okay_with_waiting_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-most-men-are-totally-okay-with-waiting-to-have.1218086 https://theredarchive.com/post/1218086

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