The way women behave with men they’re genuinely attracted to is very different compared to the way they behave with men that have merely grown on them.

Mrs_Drgree · 2023-06-05T17:06:43+00:00

The orgasm gap is biggest with hook ups, ONSs, and other STRs. It takes a certain level of comfort, not sexual attraction, for women to be the most sexually satisfied that they can be.

Peacesquad · 2023-06-05T19:45:02+00:00

It’s called burning desire. Which can’t be negotiated

MarBitt · 2023-06-05T17:50:09+00:00

I agree that studies show a positive correlation between the attractiveness of a partner and the frequency of orgasm in a woman. But that doesn't mean it's the only or deciding factor.

You're making too far-reaching conclusions. For example, studies also show that women are less likely to orgasm during one night stands and this despite the fact that there is a belief that women can get more attractive partners for casual sex than for marriage.

For lesbians, this is largely due to the fact that most women cannot reliably orgasm from PIV sex, but instead need clitoral stimulation, which is easier to achieve with fingers, mouths, and toys.

In addition, a woman can reliably reach orgasm even with a vibrator. How attractive is the vibrator?

Or for example this:

Overall, women reported variation in their orgasm rates with different partners. Partners who induced high-orgasm rates were rated as more humorous, creative, warm, faithful, and better smelling than partners who induced low-orgasm rates, and also engaged in greater efforts to induce partner orgasm.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084725/

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2023-06-05T18:21:24+00:00

The sex, connection, intimacy and vibe is completely different when there's genuine desire on each side and the relationship isn't transactional

moonglow89 · 2023-06-06T07:50:09+00:00

A lot of women enter relationships for security, not sexual attraction…which is unfortunate

Otherwise_Possible2 · 2023-06-05T18:14:20+00:00

Yes, when you are a woman true best option she will definitely behave way differently than being one of her "okay" options.

But realistically, most men won't be a woman best option.

Now what ?

Justwannaread3 · 2023-06-05T16:52:32+00:00

That is absolutely not why lesbians have more orgasms than women in heterosexual partnerships. Where did you get that idea from?

Logical-Confection-7 · 2023-06-06T02:51:25+00:00

I think women are in fact attracted to men their are with. What I think is true is that most women end up falling in love with men they didn’t find physically attractive at first.

Also I think most men never get to know what is having a woman thinking you are handsome beyond your partner at the moment. I don’t know if that is what your are trying to convey.

Barneysparky · 2023-06-05T17:05:03+00:00

I wish the guys here would stop pretending that married men are miserable and unloved.

I get why they do it (You can't fire me I quit, that chocolate cake you are eating and won't share probably was spit in). But they are not going to convince me that my husband isn't the hottest man in the world, or that my friends who feel the same way are lying.

ForeverMaleficent993 · 2023-06-05T17:05:34+00:00

"Current affair partners and exes" AH YES. Lets determine female sexuality on cheaters and people that dont know that they want.
Also imagine marrying someone that doesnt make you orgasm. Hubby should be the first man to truly make you happy in every way. Otherwise why would they be HUSBAND?

Make your theory make sense.

Lolabird2112 · 2023-06-05T17:17:58+00:00

How come lesbians don’t have this issue if all women experience less arousal? This doesn’t even make sense unless you’re trying to ignore the elephant.

Everything is heightened when it’s new, or risky. This is the same for men as well. Just because he or she isn’t acting the same as when they first met doesn’t mean they’re any less attracted to their partner.

And actually being a woman who definitely has an exponentially larger female friend group than you, and who’s also had many conversations about what they find hot, it’s NOT about how attractive the guy is. It’s about perceived attractiveness which is a whole combination of things. And - yeah, sorry: women don’t go around telling people how their affair or ex made them cum and there husband doesn’t. Men don’t do this either, tbh. So I strongly suspect your “lots of anecdotal accounts and talks with women” is “I’ve seen a TikTok”

Active-Razzmatazz-86 · 2023-06-05T21:16:23+00:00

Most husbands boyfriends would never experience the raw sexual desire from their partner and women find very small percentage of men attractive so so offcourse they are going to end up men they don't find that attractive

dishonouronmycow · 2023-06-05T18:51:53+00:00

My mum always tells the story of how when she first met my dad she wasn’t attracted to him, but he managed to win her heart and I’ve never seen a couple more in love after 25 years of marriage. Sometimes you really just do fall for someone and that makes them attractive to you. She got pregnant with me within 6 months of meeting him and both were 20 years old so it was never a desperate need to settle down because either were getting older thing either. In real life you find a multitude of couples together from all different levels of attractiveness, class etc.

AcanthocephalaNew947 · 2023-06-05T17:03:57+00:00

How can I put this…

I can be fucking Tom Hardy, I’m not cumming from penetration, that’s not how my body works. Most women aren’t blessed with that ability and those who do tend to have more satisfying sex lives.

The reason lesbians have a smaller orgasm gap is because THEY EAT PUSSY!

Zadacat · 2023-06-05T18:02:27+00:00

And once again, u/Johnny_Autism proves his username suits him very well

questioningfeminist · 2023-06-05T21:41:00+00:00

If you've never seen a woman lose her fucking mind for a truly attractive 5% man, you're missing out.

It is a sight to behold.

TheGreatBeefSupreme · 2023-06-05T18:51:45+00:00

This is something I wrote, almost word for word, as a comment on another post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/13uzorx/women_love_one_night_stands_as_much_as_men_do/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1

_here_ok · 2023-06-06T00:30:44+00:00

I doubt it's a byproduct of attraction. There are other emotions at play besides attraction.

There's two main ones that come to mind. that's comfort and acceptance.

Think of it like this, it's very hard for anyone to orgasm unless they are comfortable. Ya there are men and women who can achieve orgasm when uncomfortable but they aren't the majority.

Meanwhile there's a matter of if someone can truly accept their attraction or circumstances. Take it you're in a society that demeans others for being ugly. If you yourself are ugly then it's hard to accept being aroused. Meanwhile if your partner is ugly to society but you find them beautiful the same problem occurs.

Hrquestiob · 2023-06-06T06:45:30+00:00

A lot of the “anecdotes” sound like rage bait to me

puddingbike · 2023-06-06T07:25:38+00:00

Where is the Automod on this post for agreement to be posted? I don't see it.

Anyway, I don't agree with every statement in this post.

For instance: "Most men are in relationships with women they’re actually attracted to. Most women are not."

I don't know. I'm not sure about that.

But, your title is correct:

The way women behave with men they’re genuinely attracted to is very different compared to the way they behave with men that have merely grown on them.

There's no doubt about that. That shouldn't even be controversial. Complete agreement with the title. If you've ever been with a woman who was fucking hot for you...you know the truth of that statement.

obviousredflag · 2023-06-06T07:34:45+00:00

Please don't use words you don't understand for your crude theories. Responsive desire has nothing to do with attractiveness. Ability to orgasm has nothing to do with attractiveness of the partner. The thrill of hooking up with some random person is always greater than having regular sex with the age old partner. That is true for men hooking up with a fling compared to their 10/10 stacy girlfriend of 10 years, too.

Sandshrew922 · 2023-06-05T17:05:10+00:00

Lesbians have more orgasms because both partners have intimate knowledge of the equipment by virtue of owning it lol. Women know the way around their bits better than men can.

karmakiller3001 · 2023-06-06T03:55:47+00:00

This is why being a Fkboy is so satisfying. It's constant validation that you are "Prime Meat" in her eyes. Being a piece of meat in the eyes of women is the epitome of success. Something men have no qualms about (unlike women who feel "objectified"). Not only do you have control but you get to experience the strongest desire she'll ever have for a man. It's winning, without ever worrying about losing.

sonantsilence · 2023-06-05T17:45:58+00:00

I don't know how you are conflating husband with ingenuine attraction, it doesn't matter how hot the guy/hubby is, it's that over time, people get bored with what they have and see day in and day out - a tale as old as time. The unknown and forbidden is always more exciting, more thrilling, more erotic, and hence more arousing.

Agreeable_Dust2855 · 2023-06-05T21:07:43+00:00

Nah the orgasm thing is fr just about men not knowing how to or caring about making a woman orgasm. Trust me women orgasm way more frequently and experience more arousal than men, if they’re with someone that knows how to do it.

Phillysportsfan52 · 2023-06-05T21:15:21+00:00

This is the biggest blackpill lol. Its like night and day and I feel its mega cope when people dont see it.

DerayRevan · 2023-06-05T17:02:28+00:00

"But came like crazy with old boyfriends"

The best dick is old dick

The best pussy is new pussy

Tale as old as time

KayRay1994 · 2023-06-05T18:32:31+00:00

its amazing how you come to all the wrong conclusions so consistently - but i’m not gonna focus on most of what you said outside of the orgasm gap cause its been rebutted so frequently - the orgasm gap isn’t because women experience “less arousal”, its because the vagina is far more complex than the penis, women rely heavily on context rather than simple penetration (which is why foreplay matters A LOT more to women) and pretty much for all of time the female orgasm has been ignored because sex was viewed as something given to men’s pleasure - ie. it ends when the man gets off. The orgasm gap exists because many men don’t feel the need to try, and many women are willing to settle for that.

As for your example of the middle aged woman, dead bedrooms are a thing and shit like this is bound to happen when one partner either stops taking care of themselves, stop trying or stops making things in the bedroom more interesting - cheating is wrong under all accounts, but your conclusion on where the thrill comes from is entirely misinformed - is him being hot a part of it? yes - there is also the aspect of her getting attention and her doing something dangerous (remember that bit about context earlier?)

Clementinequeen95 · 2023-06-05T17:23:53+00:00

Tell me you’ve never made a girl orgasm without telling me you’ve never made a girl orgasm

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-06-05T18:34:08+00:00

This seems like an inadequacy fantasy from a cuckold so I know it's something that men are terrified of. You also seem to be inexperienced with dating and sex, your post just kind of gives that away. Then again most red pill guys on here are.

I dont know why you guys have to make presumptions about other people's relationships and the "true motivations" behind them. Beta bucks, oofy doofy theory, etc. It seems kind of like you guys are neurodivergent and have to create a whole system where things make sense to you. Guess what, life doesn't make sense. A lot of things go on behind the scenes, in people's minds and lives that don't fit into your description of the world. Just because it is confusing to you doesn't mean you need to come up with some way to explain it that justifies your fears by turning every man (or rather, bottom 80%ers) into a cuckold with no agency being taken advantage of by his wife. Have a little more respect for your fellow men.

Cobra_x30 · 2023-06-05T17:10:15+00:00

Oh my heavens! I'm sorry, but you black pillers desperately need Red Pill advice.

Lesbians orgasm more not because they have higher levels of arousal... most lesbians are big as a house! Instead it's because they don't bust a nut and then roll over to fall asleep. Instead they keep licking each other like a dog on a peanut butter log. Ever see dogs just wander around licking the air? Yeah, lesbians get that facial twitch too after going down for hours on end.

This stuff is just too much.

richard_golbes · 2023-06-05T18:39:05+00:00

Based on a lot of anecdotal accounts I’ve heard from female friends, their orgasm chances are totally dependent on how attractive the man is.

I don't believe you.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-06-05T19:58:24+00:00

Women are unlikely to orgasm during casual hookups even if the guy is attractive. The orgasm gap is the largest for one-night stands. And also one reason why most women aren’t as into casual sex as men. Even if she finds him physically attractive, she won’t be able to orgasm or really enjoy it at all if she’s not relaxed and comfortable.

So while this particular woman must find the excitement of hooking up with a new guy to be worth it, it’s certainly not a universal thing. That’s a more male-typical sexuality, which some women do have it’s just not the norm.

No-Rough-7390 · 2023-06-05T20:43:56+00:00

This is quite a thread.

Lesbians have so many more orgasms, but also lesbian bed death (didn’t see it mentioned so maybe I missed it).

OP, there’s a whole book called Why Women Have Sex that shows all the reasons women fuck. So yeah, they fuck average guys (even as women here are classifying their dude) and have no issue with it.

However, there is a marked difference in the experience you have with women if you are perceived as THE guy as opposed to relatively average. Ask any guy who has had their looks transform, along with charisma, etc. into adulthood. You get to see the real compare/contrast of how women act and behave both in private and in public. However, most people won’t get that experience, so it sounds like hyperbole. In this regard, you’ll really never make a compelling argument because it’s not in women’s best interest to be so honest and it’s also not an end all be all.

I will say, however, that things like the 7 year itch do tend to occur when women marry a guy who was convenient and maybe wouldnt glance at him twice in the past but he looked like a real good prospect when it was time to settle down. Baby rabies and fomo are huge psychological factors that can make an unexciting guy exciting if it makes a necessity a virtue.

MistyMaisel · 2023-06-05T18:24:54+00:00

I could see a possibility of a woman going to bed once with a man they aren't attracted to. It would make some sense even, before you've had sex, you really don't know what to expect, but once you know what a man putting his penis inside you feels like and the position/s you're going to be in, and how that all feels as a woman...

Look, it's pretty damn near impossible to do (unless your literal survival is on the line) unless you're attracted to and aroused by the man. It's just that invasive. I don't know if men can imagine it because I don't know how men feel about putting themselves inside a woman, I don't know if you guys find it very vulnerable or if it feels a very particular way that would be agonizing and traumatic if you weren't into it. I really don't know, maybe dudes can enlighten me, but as a woman, you pretty much can't do it.

Spontaneous desire is when the attraction you feel towards the man that is largely dormant most of the time other than general attracted appreciation is ignited by being aroused by the things he does, the things he says, the environment, the day, the story going on within your relationship, and how he generally animates in life.

Could a guy you felt mediocre desire for do this, yes. Is it probably easier for a super hot hottie to do this? Yes. But I guarantee you, quite a bit of thrill, attraction, and desire is required to get a woman to be comfortable fucking beyond the first few times. It's just too invasive, vulnerable, and singular a feeling to be something you do because "well, he's grown on me and I love him".

***
To address you about orgasm. Orgasm is really something for us ladies. I'm super attracted to my man, he's amazing at getting that spontaneous and responsive desire going, he's so freaking handsome...and there's still times it's just not happening. I know some of it has to be based on my cycle and where my bits are located because of that and the level of estrogen and testosterone in my system that day. And sometimes it has to do with whatever he's doing not being quite it at that moment. And sometimes, I'm just too in my own head about everything and the pressure to orgasm feels like an impossible feat. My best explanation is that this arousal thing is multi-faceted. There's times I feel super aroused mentally and my body just isn't cooking. There's times I'm not super aroused mentally and my body is all over whatever is happening and I'll orgasm easily. And there's times where I'm so aroused and the body is cooking right and I could orgasm from him touching my neck right.

I think a lot of the gap is best explained by what I said above and a lot of men not giving a shit about doing what it takes to get you aroused and then correct technique. I don't think it's best explained as women fucking dudes they aren't into because ho hum, hubby expects it.

Y'all love to bring up the dead bedroom sub, go there, it's not filled with women who are giving men pity sex. Women really don't do pity sex that much. We don't do obligation sex. It's not in us, because it's that traumatic to be penetrated when you're not aroused and attracted.

Epiphanic_Eros · 2023-06-06T00:28:21+00:00

Another loser theory about the top 10% of men, or whatever.

Some women have responsive desire (I’d argue most women do). That means they need to be seduced — you have to learn to make them aroused. Most American men, once they get married, seem to do little and easy a lot. They stop dressing nicely, they stop buying flowers and doing special things. They stop expressing their desire for their wife. And, frankly, they never learn to be satisfactory lovers, let alone exceptional lovers. The wives with responsive desire have nothing to respond to! The wife with spontaneous desire don’t feel very inclined to assim it toward their slob of a husband. What’s the surprise that some hot young guy gets her aroused? He’s not only good looking, he works out, he’s dressed like an Italian, and he takes her for a spin on the dance floor, first.

WilliamWyattD · 2023-06-05T23:02:55+00:00

I think the OP is pointing at a truth that is often obfuscated, perhaps intentionally. But he definitely overstates the point.

But yes, there probably is a much smaller % of men that generate that real immediate, spontaneous lustful fire in women than the other way around. And yes, this dynamic probably has some impact on orgasm rates. But there is so much more to the story, including women's desire for novelty and new relationship energy, etc.

At the end of the day, the OP's point is likely obfuscated for a reason: there's nothing to be done about it. Stop worrying if you are the purely hottest thing your woman has ever seen or been with. You probably are not. But you probably can't be that for ANY woman. So what you gonna do? Stay celibate? Be the best you can be, and if that is good enough for her, great.

operapeach · 2023-06-05T23:17:34+00:00

Less arousal? The clitoris is a much more sensitive organ than the penis.

Men simply don’t know how to fuck. It’s okay.

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Snowsunbunny · 2023-06-06T00:56:26+00:00

"Studies have shown that even straight women are more aroused by other women than they are most men."

Is this for real? Can you please link the study, I can't find anything.

Stonks1337 · 2023-06-06T04:10:11+00:00

Definitely have had different intimate experiences where i was perceived as oofy doofy and where I was perceived as pure hotness its v different

Plazmatron44 · 2023-06-06T12:39:25+00:00

I'm not sure, the last two women I was involved were both very attracted to me when we started out, the first one could cum over and over again with just 30 seconds of fingering her whereas the second one couldn't come with me having sex with her but did cum frequently when I performed oral on her.

daylightxx · 2023-06-06T02:04:44+00:00

We don’t experience less arousal! We just can’t orgasm as easy because we don’t have a dick! Having a dick makes it super easy to come. Girls? Not so much.

zyex12 · 2023-06-05T20:42:39+00:00

Doesn’t everyone treat the person their attracted to different then someone their not. I mean yea guys can basically nut with anyone and most girls kind need an emotional connection. I wouldn’t say the orgasm problem is that I’d say that’s based off hookups where the guy doesn’t really care. Most relationships where the guy actually cares and tries to please his girl don’t have a problem with that. Also women communicating what they like is a big help no one’s born a sex expert and everyone’s body is different so it’s all about learning mostly sure if ur super hot then that’ll give u more leeway.

Scandi_Navy · 2023-06-05T20:51:08+00:00

I'm also more aroused by swimsuit models than the girl next door. Is that the definition of a great partner, level of arousal? Because in that case men should stop settling and divorce aging women.

Sounds ridiculous for men to do right? Yet that's literally what women seem to be using as metric for their entire relationship.

thetruthishere_ · 2023-06-06T08:59:41+00:00

Do you have stats on most women being with men they are not attracted to?

YveisGrey · 2023-06-06T12:20:30+00:00

It’s actually not true that women orgasm more for spontaneous sexual escapades women orgasm more with stable consistent partners. At least that what the studies show. Women also report higher sexual satisfaction in stable committed relationships. The idea that women are cumming from all these wild hook ups and flings is basically a myth, a myth perpetuated perhaps by male insecurities but a myth nevertheless

Group	Mean Sex Frequency	SD	Mean Orgasm Frequency	SD
Lesbians	9.50	9.05	7.14	8.66
Hetero (unmatched)	15.73	13.95	7.65	8.98
Hetero (matched)	15.25	13.46	7.23	8.58

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