I Need Feminism Because...

chevalier_d_eon · 2013-05-24T10:35:24+00:00

It means that "I don't want to take responsibility for my words or actions"

nlakes · 2013-05-24T10:52:47+00:00

If you tell a guy yes but think no in your head and hate the whole experience; you weren't raped, he wasn't a rapist. You are to blame, not him.

In order to revoke consent you need to either stop all sexual acts (i.e. walk away) or (the most preferable option as it actually communicates what you're thinking/feeling) say "stop, I don't want this to continue".

He might be annoyed that you stopped half way through, but again, he is allowed to feel that, even if it makes you feel bad. Doesn't make him a rapist or a misogynist. He also has the right to never call you again.

If you don't want to say no because you like the guy and think you'll lose them if you say 'no', it's your fault if you don't say no.

Kallistic · 2013-05-24T09:55:35+00:00

What the hell kind of sense if that supposed to make. God I wish I was gay sometimes...

NeverFinishAnyMaille · 2013-05-24T11:36:51+00:00

But sometimes 'no' means 'yes' and 'banana' means 'no'.

WhiteThrone · 2013-05-24T12:11:44+00:00

And yet, women are unable to grasp why men complain about 'mixed messages' coming from women.

Maybe, because women are sending confusing, mixed messages which baffle even themselves and men are NOT friggin' psychic. Men cannot read your mind to know what you actually mean.

Life would be soooooooooooooo much easier if women would actually use words that have the same meaning as men use.

Nerdasaurusrexx · 2013-05-24T13:41:28+00:00

New age feminism: Helping bring your face to your palm.

synnndstalker · 2013-05-24T13:15:14+00:00

Honest question - what is she actually trying to say? Is she trying to say she should be allowed to change her mind during? Is she trying to say that she might want sex but not every act of sex, and that she should be asked to consent to each individually?

Or are we to assume that she means that if she regrets doing it later, then it's rape?

nobody2000 · 2013-05-24T14:45:26+00:00

I need feminism because my communication skills are that of a 3 year old with Downs Syndrome...

contrarianism · 2013-05-24T13:36:03+00:00

This seems like a parody.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-05-24T14:46:55+00:00

So guys if you recognize this lady DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER.

Regardless of how enthusiastically she consents she is clearly stating that she feels justified in taking back consent after the fact.

And I have little doubt she'd sleep soundly after sending a man away for 10 years for consensual sex because she has already convinced herself that consensual sex can still be rape. She'd honestly believe she was the victim.

Chervenko · 2013-05-24T11:51:06+00:00

I believe the Athenians are rolling in their graves right now. I doubt even the dead would find peace through all this jimmy rustling.

ReverendSalem · 2013-05-24T10:12:38+00:00

I am seeing a lot of cross-posting between /r/TumblrInAction and /r/MensRights lately..

libertasmens · 2013-05-24T18:14:52+00:00

I thought this was already covered? It is logical, it's just oversimplified.

This is a concept that is commonly referred to, but this woman decided to simplify it to the point that it sounds ridiculous... coercion.

Regardless of if you reside in Canada or not, I think Canada's criminal code defines consent very well with coercion in mind:

“consent” means [...] the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in the sexual activity in question.

-Criminal Code, RSC 1985, c C-46, §273.1(1)

When referring assault and sexual assault:

(3) For the purposes of this section, no consent is obtained where the complainant submits or does not resist by reason of

(a) the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant;

(b) threats or fear of the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant;

(c) fraud; or

(d) the exercise of authority

-Criminal Code, RSC 1985, c C-46, §265(3)

In other words, even if they submit or consent, there are circumstances where they do not truly consent.

NOTE:

I'm aware that this is only Canadian law. The point is that the law above clearly and concisely explains how "yes can mean no".

I consider myself an MRA, and while I understand that a lot of the responses to this picture are from those who are used to seeing pseudo- and extreme-feminists, but I just hate to see people jump to conclusions when there's a logical reasoning.

boss1000 · 2013-05-24T14:19:12+00:00

I'll explain what the second part her statement means, since so many of you are completely mischaracterizing or misunderstanding it.

She wants to raise awareness of the fact that consent is more than "'no' means 'no'". She wants more people to understand that a severely intoxicated "yes" doesn't imply consent. That a "yes" while being coerced or pressured doesn't imply consent. This is clearly a misconception people have, because many of those who have raped under a standard definition (for which I include all potential male victimization) didn't even know they were doing so.

Feminism pushes for that awareness. It pushes for an emphasis on respecting the other person over getting laid. On assuming a default "no" until convinced otherwise because of an understanding of the damage rape can cause to a person.

It could be worth discussing whether that message is clear enough in this image to the feminist, the lay-person, and the anti-feminist each. But I don't feel like this is the place to do that. The comments here show little effort to understand and a much stronger proclivity to berate. I understand y'all are hyper-concerned about false rape accusations, but this is a real issue about actual rape.

If you're going to respond to this, please spare me the hyperbole of references to filling out forms in the bedroom for consent or extrapolating something well beyond what I said. That's where unproductive dialog begins and ends with me. And be sure to downvote because you disagree, because that's how Reddiquette is supposed to work.

Edit: I'll rescind my last sentence for now. No need to assume my every interaction with this subreddit be peppered with downvotes.

Edit2: Nevermind.

Ziu · 2013-05-24T14:48:49+00:00

Perhaps she means people can be forced to say yes, sex slavery etc.

A_Nihilist · 2013-05-24T13:17:56+00:00

What gets me about these pictures is how ridiculously smug some of them look. They really think they're sending some profound message but nobody in their movement wants to tell them how stupid they look.

spatulaboy · 2013-05-24T13:36:06+00:00

Doesnt need feminism just needs a interpreter.

harryballsagna · 2013-05-24T13:59:05+00:00

Tell me it's a 'shop! I already hate people enough, and I don't think I can take finding out this is real.

Funcuz · 2013-05-24T11:51:25+00:00

I don't understand. Where was this posted originally, did she at least try to explain the meaning behind that?

jaheiner · 2013-05-24T13:38:05+00:00

SIR, HOW DARE YOU IMPEDE ON THIS WOMANS RIGHT TO CHANGE HER MIND ABOUT IT HAVING BEEN CONSENSUAL WHEN SHE BECOMES AFRAID OF BEING CALLED A WHORE! YOU SEXIST PIG

tessie999 · 2013-05-24T17:33:59+00:00

I'll probably get downvoted for this, but I think she meant "yes doesn't mean yes when they are too intoxicated to consent, or are underaged".

However she phrased it in the worst way possible...hopefully the backlash against it will prevent future poor wording of signs...

Hikikomori523 · 2013-05-24T18:24:14+00:00

This is why you always sign an NDA and employment contract before doing the deed........

parannoyedandroid · 2013-05-24T18:53:53+00:00

Seriously, what the fuck does that even mean.

doules107 · 2013-05-24T11:35:18+00:00

THAT WAS NOT INT THE RULES

lordfransie · 2013-05-24T15:05:45+00:00

How do intelligent people believe that this mentality makes sense. How is a man supposed to know that you are saying yes but don't actually mean it. I had an ex who actually got mad at me because I knew she was mad but I couldn't read her mind and know why. I hate that it is no longer the woman's job to vocalize their feelings, but rather the man's to just know.

MildlyInconvenient · 2013-05-24T17:48:21+00:00

"Because men can't read minds"

GADBabaganoosh · 2013-05-24T19:05:49+00:00

If you MEAN no then FUCKING SAY NO, not a timid YES.

twelveovertwo · 2013-05-24T21:03:46+00:00

If you can't sympathize with those in abusive relationships where words like "no" have physical consequences, then I have no time for you, /r/MensRights.

BalllsackTBaghard · 2013-05-24T12:55:36+00:00

She looks like the chick from the movie "The Haunting"

athornton436 · 2013-05-24T13:58:41+00:00

holy shit that girl goes to my school

2013-05-24T14:34:05+00:00

Does that translate into

I need feminism because 'no' means 'no', but sometimes I say 'yes' when I really mean 'no'

That's what I got from it. And I apologise for not being a fucking psychic.

silverscreemer · 2013-05-24T15:04:27+00:00

She doesn't need Feminism, she needs mind reading.

ipoopgreatness · 2013-05-24T15:34:16+00:00

I need Men's Rights because I have to be a fucking clairvoyant with nujobs.

gypsywhisperer · 2013-05-24T16:10:53+00:00

I've been in a situation in which my choices with this scumbag were to have unprotected sex which I said no to three times, or give a blowjob. I was in a car so I couldn't leave, he removed my clothes and he was on top of my clothes. I had few options.

So I had to settle for the lesser of two evils. My first kiss was at that instance and he forced me down there for 90 minutes.

He tried to put it in me "just the tip" and when I said no, he groaned and put my face there.

I was relieved when I tasted that bitter cum because then I knew I was done and didn't have to do that again.

So, I said no, but I also complied because my options were limited.

lucky_shiner · 2013-05-24T17:52:38+00:00

This seems like one of the more reasonable 'ones of these things' that I occasionally see around here. I think the point that she's trying to hit on is that she should feel comfortable with saying no and whatever consequences that decision may bring. I think that's a reasonable concern.

bnpruitt2012 · 2013-05-24T17:57:08+00:00

Here's a thought, say what you mean.

fia_bui · 2013-05-24T18:13:51+00:00

As ridiculous as this is, hasn't this been posted a few times before?

kragshot · 2013-05-24T18:15:19+00:00

What in the seven-thousand intercontinental nuclear ballistic fucks does that statement even mean?

Bag of cats, I tell ya....

And now I'm going to read the rest of this thread just to see who comes in here to actually try to defend that slice of misandric insanity. And I'm going to heap piles of hot, steaming scorn on them.

moorethanafeeling · 2013-05-24T19:22:06+00:00

No is no in Spanish, but yes is si.

Loluwism · 2013-05-24T19:23:40+00:00

Oh, I get it, that means... Wait, WTF does that mean?

UseKnowledge · 2013-05-24T19:51:24+00:00

This is fake, right? Or photo-shopped? No one can be this stupid.

Capitalsman · 2013-05-24T20:18:17+00:00

If yes means no then don't fucking say yes

XDingoX83 · 2013-05-24T20:36:25+00:00

Wut?

JAMbalaya13 · 2013-05-24T23:24:59+00:00

She is not accusing anybody of rape... Who does this SR always just jump to conclusions, I am fucking unsubscribing. This picture shouldn't have jumped to the top of my feed. Not all women are evil manipulative bitches. I am all for equal rights for men, but stop assuming the worst, you are acting just like the real psycho bitches.

littlerabbitbite · 2013-05-25T04:10:12+00:00

ITT MRA's fail to understand the concept of coercion or emotional manipulation.

Nipplestoker · 2013-05-24T12:52:19+00:00

I need Feminism because men are secretly mind readers.

freelollies · 2013-05-24T13:24:27+00:00

See, if we just all adopted Aladeen none of this would be a problem

SplosionMan · 2013-05-24T14:03:22+00:00

I'm pretty sure this got proven to be fake, or a joke on some talk show.

JesusChristSuperDick · 2013-05-24T14:11:48+00:00

The lack of logic hurts my head.

ImClever · 2013-05-24T14:14:33+00:00

That's. Fucked. Up.

Noel_S_Jytemotiv · 2013-05-24T14:22:05+00:00

…having a word for telling other women what to do and think makes it legitimate.

noodleworm · 2013-05-24T15:11:53+00:00

We've had this picture posted before, and just like that time I refer to this book (just look at the god-damn title), as a sign that this girl is totally confused/or unclear about feminism.

I can only assume she is trying to refer to something people have called 'Grey Rape'- which is where you give in to pressure or coercion. In that case what the person did is not illegal but leaves you feeling uncomfortable and a bit violated.

daulm · 2013-05-24T15:18:43+00:00

Wait, this isn't a joke?

I think Poe's law applies here.

DrDerpberg · 2013-05-24T15:52:08+00:00

This kind of thing is more misogynist than anything I've ever seen feminism rage against.

This woman obviously thinks women are unable to decide things for themselves and lack the ability to speak their mind. This sign implies that it is a man's job to think for the woman, and that even after she gives consent it is up to him to decide if she's thinking clearly enough to mean it. This is how I treat children; they think they want something but haven't thought it through, so it's a grown-up's job to decide what's really good for them. I refuse to treat women the way I treat children; if that makes me an enemy of a certain brand of feminism, I'm glad.

DirtyBirdNJ · 2013-05-24T17:32:10+00:00

Dear girl holding sign, fuck you.

OMNEG · 2013-05-24T19:42:03+00:00

Can someone please help me? So many of these are so absurd when I read them that I honestly can't tell if they are real or Poe's Law. I simply can't believe someone would say something like that yet I've met many people in my life who have said many stupid things they really believed.

tl;dr: Are these real or Poe?

CrayAB · 2013-05-24T21:26:02+00:00

Kalfos · 2013-05-24T21:27:09+00:00

I ain't don't get it...

buttholemacgee · 2013-05-24T23:28:36+00:00

Are you fucking kidding me? So you're screwed either way. Good luck.

LegoAllTheThings · 2013-05-25T00:10:35+00:00

Then what the fuck does it mean?!?

galt88 · 2013-05-24T12:42:04+00:00

And women like that wonder 'where all the good guys are'.

Garnack · 2013-05-24T12:50:25+00:00

Someone doesn't know what the definition of "yes" means.

MarkFluffalo · 2013-05-24T12:53:37+00:00

Is that Cambridge?

SMZ72 · 2013-05-24T13:55:32+00:00

Buyer's Remorse?

30303030303030 · 2013-05-24T14:58:08+00:00

hilarious

just say you don't want responsibility for anything you do, we already know that

Wheels279 · 2013-05-24T15:19:42+00:00

I'm seeing a lot of anger and blaming on women here in the comments implying that it is all on a women if she says "yes" and means "no." And while I agree that women should be held accountable for what they say and do, implying that a woman who does this is a "manipulative bitch." And that men aren't "telepathic," doesn't make this situation any better. Isn't it possible that women in this situation are just so damn confused they don't know what they want? Maybe that means she is blameworthy, or that we should write off what she feels because even she doesn't know. I however can attest to say that as a woman I am confused, I have grown up confused, and even with an education on feminist theory I am still confused. The society I live in (America) tells me every day through internet content, victim blaming, magazines, new coverage etc, that I am not worthy. That physical beauty is power, that men wanting you is power, and that people don't really value who I am inside, just what I am outside. It is my belief that many women get this same message from the media, and from the men in their lives (boyfriends, husbands, fathers, brothers,etc). I can certainly think of situations where women say yes and mean no, and while there certainly is accountability on her, why aren't we holding our society accountable too? We are teaching girls and women to be confused, to be powerless, and then we call them bitches, sluts, and other hurtful names to add insult to injury.

otellolino · 2013-05-24T15:49:57+00:00

lazlounderhill · 2013-05-24T15:50:05+00:00

Could you imagine how fucking crazy, chaotic and violent this world would be if everyone subscribed to the crazy fucking idea that "Yes doesn't always mean Yes"? I just cannot believe that these words weren't photoshopped - my mind cannot accept that someone actually thinks this is remotely acceptable.

fishing-for-downvote · 2013-05-24T15:58:35+00:00

How the hell is he supposed to know. You said yes, he can't read minds.

deathsythe · 2013-05-24T15:58:42+00:00

You've got to be kidding me...

2013-05-24T16:02:08+00:00

After reading her sign I thought, "Well what the fuck am I supose to do with that!?"

PeterArching · 2013-05-24T16:12:10+00:00

...and sometimes "You are a vapid twat" means "Grow the fuck up and take responsibilty for yourself and your incapacitating inability to communicate properly".

The only "-ism" needed is some proper journalism to call these mental midgets out on their dipshittery instead of "boo hoo girls are weak and helpless and can't do nothing because of rapey men except when they are strong and independent and can do things better than men even blindfolded hanging upside down from bridge! YEAH GO GRRRLZ!"

Jimmysal · 2013-05-24T17:53:47+00:00

TIL: no means no, yes also means no. Maybe. Maybe also means no.

jokoon · 2013-05-24T17:57:46+00:00

I wonder what "penis" sounds to her, yes or no ?

Rio_Bravo · 2013-05-24T20:43:53+00:00

While true sometimes yes does not mean yes, you don't need feminism for that people need to be less foolish and more responsible it's the point of knowing "shit I'm ether extreme drunk or high I probably shouldn't do this." but alas people can't take responsibility for their actions.

girlsgonekyle · 2013-05-24T20:56:15+00:00

"I lie"

MRB2012 · 2013-05-24T21:09:58+00:00

This girl's been taking lessons from Bill Clinton it appears.

ghebert001 · 2013-05-24T21:22:44+00:00

Not knowing the difference between a "yes that means yes" and one that doesn't = rapist /s

gameboyhippo · 2013-05-24T22:37:31+00:00

I know this is offensive, but I think a solution might be to find an awesome woman, wait until marriage, and then only have sex with your wife. Ready. Set. Down vote!

zanpher717 · 2013-05-24T22:54:46+00:00

She needs a dictionary.

2013-05-24T23:30:03+00:00

Literally, wtf...I am so confused, and she she also appears to be wholly confused.

TheAlmightyProphet · 2013-05-24T23:51:19+00:00

Normal adults use words to express the meaning of the message they intend to communicate. Fucking children and liars say words when they want to say something that they dont mean.

hades_loves_you · 2013-05-25T02:45:55+00:00

These can't possibly be real.

DasWeisseBand · 2013-05-25T04:23:47+00:00

The sign doesnt mean she regretted sex. Yes doesn't always mean yes refers to being coerced into saying yes whether it is a threat of violence or getting a very intoxicated girl into saying yes.

but why am I bringing logic into this, lets all jerk about how stupid women are.

Sirinon · 2013-05-25T18:16:24+00:00

Yeah except for those times when No is actually a veiled YES!!, as has happened so many times before.

TheDongerNeedsFood · 2013-05-24T16:04:14+00:00

This is the equivalent of one of us saying

"I need the MRM because sometimes, after I've gone on a date, and I realize that it was a really bad one, I feel like the girl stole from me because I paid for dinner. Now that I think about it, she did steal from/defraud me, and I'm gonna call the cops on her."

Mythandros · 2013-05-24T16:06:41+00:00

That's some interesting logic, there... So, let me see if I understand this.

No means no. Okay, I'm with you so far. Yes means no too? But only when SHE wants it to?

That makes no sense. I think /u/nlakes put it best in his reply on this post.

qwert_trewq · 2013-05-24T16:32:09+00:00

Haha, that's an Oxford Uni student. Should really know better.

jady1971 · 2013-05-24T16:34:47+00:00

I am sooo glad I am happily married, to be a young man dating in today's world would scare the shit out of me. All I had to worry about is rejection and maybe some taunting. Now you have to worry about legal persecution..............

DigitalDemiGod · 2013-05-24T17:21:53+00:00

She kind of looks like Leddy from Fast and Furious

vader32 · 2013-05-24T20:15:58+00:00

Its got to be fake but knowing some feminists...

zialover10 · 2013-05-24T21:50:06+00:00

What the actual fuck?! I will preface this by saying that I am a woman that has long been beyond bothered by the "I need feminism because..." 'movement.' (Is it a movement or do they just go to college campuses with whiteboards?! They asked me to do it once when I was in college and didn't like my answer. I felt so equal and valued.)

Stuff like this enrages me in a way I cannot describe - there is no responsibility for the actions/ people/ situations/ places you surround yourself with and now the guy has to determine if you really mean it or not?!? Pathetic. At best. You absolutely have the right to say no - you do NOT have the right to say yes, feel buyer's remorse, and then say an ex-post-facto-no. /facepalm

nrjk · 2013-05-24T23:49:42+00:00

It's interesting that people that parse words into such tiny objects all of a sudden don't give a shit when it comes to "yes" and "no".

Maybe, perhaps, the part saying "yes" is an actual feeling that any person that is able to enjoy sex feels when the opportunity arises. And maybe, just maybe, the "no" is a cultural factor brought on by the "patriarchy" that has long held that women should feel shame and guilt about sex and these two intertwining ideas give conflicting messages to both, or more (ifthatsthekindofthingyouthinkyoumightbeinto) people involved.

I never understood the sex-negative feminists. "We're so progressive, we're like the Taliban!" Not that it necessarily applies to the post. When a girl leads a guy on through OBSERVABLE signals and is doubting it in her UNOBSERVABLE mind, that is her problem, not mine.

Women no longer need to fear pregnancy as we have condoms, birth control, legal abortions, and so on. STD's are a risk to both sexes, so there is a mutual concern. Risk of carrying a child for nine months is no longer a huge factor, so whats the big deal with sex people? Do it. It feels good. Be safe. Enjoy it. Don't rape. Don't send conflicting ass signals and regret it and call it rape. Don't accuse cab drivers of sexual battery when you don't get your way. Simple

Khathaar · 2013-05-25T16:48:45+00:00

I can't imagine ever having to legit ask for consent.

"Hello, can we have sex tonight?"

"Yes, we can"

Fucking hell. Would be so awkward.

This shit is all sorts of daft.

2013-05-24T15:54:29+00:00

Feminist wizards are working on mind reading helmets I guess, they need all the funding they can get.

Derp1121 · 2013-05-24T21:49:47+00:00

She probably doesn't know the difference between rape and regret

Orlando1701 · 2013-05-25T03:05:21+00:00

This is quite literally the most ignorant thing I've ever seen and I'm in college where most of our professors are borderline retarded.

2013-05-24T16:42:30+00:00

What the flying fuck, woman??!!

2013-05-24T16:43:46+00:00

I'm so subscribing to this subreddit. EDIT: typo

seenloitering · 2013-05-24T16:50:34+00:00

...and sometimes yes means no and yes at the same time, and like, your head implodes. That's why feminism is so awesome.

femgal · 2013-05-24T19:17:32+00:00

While I understand the difficulty some men may have in reading this particular woman's view, I would hope you would also understand that often women feel pressured into sex and may actually be too scared to say no. Mutual consent to sex isn't a simple yes/no answer and I believe a lot of men who've been sexually molested and pressured into sex by older and stronger women would agree. It's not a black and white issue, not much related to sex is.

Piss_Marks_MY_Spot · 2013-05-24T21:12:09+00:00

You need feminism because you're retarded? Hmm

TychoCelchu · 2013-05-25T07:46:03+00:00

I am a dumb cunt, AMA

HalfysReddit · 2013-05-24T10:14:33+00:00

DOES NOT COMPUTE. WOMYN LOGIC DETECTED!

doomsought · 2013-05-24T15:18:46+00:00

Amusing, but wrong place to post it.

ttnorac · 2013-05-24T17:12:12+00:00

http://humorousfunnyjokes.com/wp-content/uploads/Seems_About_Right.jpg

NoSoul_Ginger · 2013-05-24T14:40:12+00:00

I don't see the problem. If the one giving the consent is heavly intoxicated(alcohol ect) and the other one is not, then it can be classefied as a "false"/"void" consent in my opinion. However if both are just as much intoxicated, and both gives consent to the act, there shouldn't be a problem.

EDIT: Me not english good

EDIT: Ok people, if you have sex with a person, be it man or woman, who is so drunk they can't take care of them selves, with or without consent, then yes, I agree with the woman in the picture. However this goes both ways. If both of them are drunk then they are equally responsible for their own actions. A drunk person is also responsible for their own actions, but if some sober person is using them because they are to drunk to care for them selves then it is rape. When you are sober it is pretty much expected that you behave in a normal manner, and that if you start approaching a drunk person you either help them out, or behave as the sober person you are. I don't give a shit about "hurr both are equally responsible for their actions". Yes the drunk person was stupid for making the decision to get drunk in the first place, but don't even try to say that the sober and the drunk person have an equal standing when it comes to give consent to sex in any form or shape. One of them are clearly not capable of making decisions of their own well being at the moment, and the other one might use that for their own benefit.

hitler_wasright · 2013-05-24T14:28:20+00:00

I need /r/MensRights because complaining about dumb shit women say advances Mens Rights

Title	I Need Feminism Because...
Author	MaunaLoona
Upvotes	1303
Comments	461
Date	May 24, 2013 9:23 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1eyn7u/i-need-feminism-because/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-need-feminism-because.1613251 https://theredarchive.com/post/1613251

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