Daily Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2021-12-03T07:00:10+00:00

This daily thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc... in...

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Probably because they haven't spoken to as many men about their methods of dating habits, and typically speak with other women instead. Most women tend to have strong friendships or work relationships with other women, so that's who they talk with on a daily basis. So when Woman A starts venting about her 16th message of the week that is underwhelming, Woman B and Woman C...if they're in similar points of life...will probably have the same thing happening to them. Thus it becomes an unintentional echo chamber. Also both men and women tend to go overboard when they're venting, which is what this sounds like.

I'm an outlier, as the overwhelming majority of my friends have been men/boys all my life...even in the past 6 years, I haven't had female friends. (Not because there's anything wrong about female friends, I just am introverted, a gamer, and don't socialize outside of my regular group much.) So I know what my personal experiences with online dating were like, but also what my male friends were like. It gives a more balanced idea.

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[–]not0my0real0account76 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Hi! I once used a dating app but for a very short time as it was horrible. I received a lot of weird messages, sometimes not very respectful. I would ask people about their hobbies, or what subjects they enjoy talking about, or what are their favorite books and they would laugh at me. Also the high number of messages made me waste a lot of time to reply everyone - as I thought it would be impolite to stop replying. Out of the conversations I had (which were high in number although it was a short time), I found no one sharing my values, principles and hobbies. And I just felt that strangers were talking too familiar (In my country we talk to strangers politely using "Mister" and "Miss/Missis"). Although I would call them "Mister" they would not use the polite pronoun and title, they would talk like we already know each other and call me by name. The entire experience made me feel scared, unwelcomed and feeling that I am losing a lot of time talking to those people. So I decided to quit.

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By every scientific definition, an embryo and a foetus is a person. What is the arbitrary cut off for brain development? Even babies who are born have not had their brains fully developed. There is a reason you remember nothing from when you were 1 year old. I disagree with everything else you said.

Yes some people are sick evil criminals and deserve to die. I would not shed a tear if a mass murder or a serial rapist was executed. It doesn't make the act of taking a human life morally acceptable ever. I could be convinced that it's a necessary evil in some cases, but it's still an evil nonetheless. There's a reason many countries abolish the death penalty. Pretty much every European country has abolished the death penalty.

Also you need to consider the fact that no justice system on earth is perfect. If you carry out death penalty, even for the most horrific crimes, there is still the chance someone innocent might be executed.

[–]NarniaFox 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Not really.

personhood: a philosophical concept designed to determine which individuals have human rights and responsibilities. Personhood may be distinguished by possession of defining characteristics, such as consciousness and rationality, or in terms of relationships with others. Philosophers disagree on whether all humans are, or all nonhuman animals are not, persons, especially when debating the ethics of abortion, euthanasia, and human uses of animals. In law, corporations can be regarded as having personhood, when identifying their rights and responsibilities.

https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780199687817.001.0001/acref-9780199687817-e-11731

I haven't said "fully developed". Newborns have personality of a sort, at least a "beginning" of it. They recognize their mothers, they react to their surroundings, they can communicate with the world at least to some extent.

Because most developed countries try to provide their citizens with human rights. And unfortunately for you, bodily integrity is one of them, so abortion is the right as well.

Sure, it's one of the reasons why most countries have stopped killing criminals.

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Thanks for the link!

Most women seeking later abortion fit at least one of five profiles: They were raising children alone, were depressed or using illicit substances, were in conflict with a male partner or experiencing domestic violence, had trouble deciding and then had access problems, or were young and nulliparous.

So no one who really should have had kids in the first place.

And with more states banning/restricting access to abortions, there'll be more later abortions, because women will have to travel to other states...that makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

Although the study was researching abortions at and later than 20th week. And these abortions are the minority.

The considerable majority of abortions (91%) take place in the first trimester, before the end of the 13th week of pregnancy; 7% are performed at 14–20 weeks, and 1% at 21 weeks or later.4 Nonetheless, this final category constitutes a substantial number of abortions: Given an estimated 1.21 million abortions in the United States annually,5 more than 15,000 likely take place after 20 weeks. It is these procedures that have captured legislative attention.

[–]Willow-girlRetired dairy farm worker 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So no one who really should have had kids in the first place.

You know, I think it's fine for an individual to decide whether or not he or she is equipped to raise children, but it makes me a little nervous when "society" starts deciding who is or isn't fit. Because when that was done in the past, it resulted in some questionable outcomes, like the forced sterilization of people deemed "unfit."

And with more states banning/restricting access to abortions, there'll be more later abortions, because women will have to travel to other states...that makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

I think it depends on how people respond to the law. For instance, it might make people more careful about using birth control. If we look at American history, before 1960 (and the advent of welfare programs) there were very few births to single mothers, consistently less than 5%, and this despite the absence of legal abortion and several modern forms of birth control. Even when it was harder to prevent unintended pregnancies, women seemed to have been capable of doing a pretty good job, perhaps because the stakes were so high (before welfare, an unwed pregnancy was an unmitigated disaster).

Also, I would hope there is an effort by pro-choice women to help their sisters in need with financial assistance, transportation, etc. For decades, the pro-life movement has funded crisis pregnancy centers to provide resources to pregnant women in dire straits, and now it's time for the pro-choice contingent to step up and put its money where its mouth is, so no woman has to go without an abortion if she wants one.

Although the study was researching abortions at and later than 20th week.

I think I was responding to a statement about the motives behind late-term abortion.

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I've been thinking that a characteristic of the SMP is that contrary to normal economic markets, it doesn't regulate itself through supply and demand, because needy men are unattractive. In an ordinary market, being needy means you'll accept less and/or pay more, which stabilizes the market, but on the SMP this doesn't work because the more needy you are, the less you have to offer.

To illustrate, let's use a fixed-sexual-ranking (FSR), defined by ordering the population: the worst 10% have a FSR of 1, the best have a FSR of 10, etc. (This assumes that people don't improve and their value doesn't change, which of course is wrong, it's a simplification). Let's say that the initial situation is that every man at FSR 5 or above is partnered and every man at 4 or below is single: taking into account tingles, provisioning, social prestige, etc., the threshold above which a man provides a positive value to a woman's life is 5. For women, we'll just consider that male thirst is infinite and every woman is partnered. Some partnerships are 1-to-many to compensate. In this situation, the men at 5 can't have any abundance mentality, they're on the edge. Little by little, some of them will fall out of their relationships, and become needy, which drops their value in woman's eyes to negative. The other 5s will become less attractive by contagion. Soon, the threshold will move to 6. Women always want more. We could postulate that the equilibrium will be reached when men "at the edge" can still have abundance mentality, thanks to the fact that a small subset of men are sharing all the women.

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So driving into work I'm listening to a workout podcast and realized something that's changed for me the last 3 years.

I no longer get wives shaming their husbands for not working out. I need to get that back. Not because I want to shame other dudes, honestly its in my best interest as a swinger they stay out of shape to an extent, but because it means empirically I'm not in as good a shape aesthetically.

I need to make my body my main hobby again, (instead of video games).

Now whats funny is I can't say if its slowed me up on the sex side or not, I'm still in the "good enough" range for the kind of women I like, so there is that, but I'm sure I had a few I missed out on without knowing.

Added the better in shape you are the less game you need. On the flip side though a lot of husbands sort of resented it, which if single isn't a thing but as a swinger, you need both to be on board. I have had guys cover up their penis since I'm bigger and guys cover up their guts while looking at me and seeing me look at them, which is kinda funny as we are both fucking each others wives, relax dudes.

So done with the half assed diet and half assed workouts, back to hearing "How often do you work out?.... See honey you could do that!" or "You must work out" side eye to husband.

[–][deleted]3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Guilted into? None that I've talked to. I'm sure, just statistically speaking, its happened, but most couples we talk to are on the same page. I've never had the vibe they weren't into their husband or that sort of thing.

Swinging if anything has reinforced the idea that women do in fact care about other factors over looks compared to men. Its why there are more hot swinger woman than swinger dudes, by a good margin. He's attractive to her because of personality, status, etc but that doesn't transfer nearly as well when you become a boy toy.

Over the years I've seen a few divorces in swinging, and if the guy had anything going for them, without fail, the new wife/gf is always a physical upgrade, often strikingly big upgrade. Swinging women, far less so on the ability to upgrade.

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I mean I don't know what the other couples are doing for partners. I think swinging selects out the really small guys more than selects for the really big guys, so the average is greater but its not like monster cock land either.

Ok, but still if swinging selects out small guys and those guy are small, isn't it logical to assume they were the smaller ones in most of their encounters?

Only way I could see that not being true is if y'all compare stats prior and the small guys veto couples where the other dude is bigger.

One of the more hilarious posts I saw once was a guy who wanted to be a cuck who had a big dick and couldn't find someone bigger to cuck his wife.

Lol, that is funny. How big was he? Maybe it was fleiche

Oh do cucks ever chose to be cucked by average sized guys or do they typically want thr guy to be significantly bigger rather than just marginally?

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Ok, but still if swinging selects out small guys and those guy are small, isn't it logical to assume they were the smaller ones in most of their encounters?

Well probably, I just don't really think about it and how they do. Small is relative, and I will assume they have far less issues with guys in the normal range. Its honestly not something I've spent a lot of time thinking about on that end.

Oh do cucks ever chose to be cucked by average sized guys or do they typically want thr guy to be significantly bigger rather than just marginally?

My only experience with cucks is online so I don't really know, its a dynamic I'm not interested in, and I wouldn't WANT to do the bull thing even if the option was there. I don't get off on humiliating another guy, I know I'd put another guy through the wall if he tried that shit with me so I don't "get it", and there is a lot of closet bi I think in cuckolding, which may explain some of the big dick fetish the guys have. Cucks will talk about "cleaning up" etc.

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Yeah, I have extreme commitment-phobia in general but with the right person, I stop seeing committing as a chore and more as just a happy symptom of being with them.

Traveling a lot is fun with the right circumstances: get a travel friendly credit card & figure out which airline has a hub in your local airline. With a credit card that gives you lounge access, you can easily spend 1.5-2hr wait between flights if you get to the airport early like most people drinking at a bar for free or eating. A quiet place to get some work done or to power nap as well. A few times in the past 2 weeks I have had to shower in between long connecting flights at a delta sky club and it’s been great (they clean them well too😊).

It’s good to also know what airline has a hub in your local airport because usually they’ll have the most direct flights to and from your home airport. Mine is a Delta hub so I just book all my flights with them, have one of their cards so I get complementary upgrades, and free luggage.

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I agree with you, they wouldn’t be nice. But I’m not really saying guys who want to be like that and just behave themselves. There’s a pretty complex process of socialization that people undergo in early adolescence, and a lot of boys start off as violent and abrasive. Then they get socialized and channel that energy into more productive enterprises.

Socialization can drive all sorts of permanent differences. I saw a study suggesting that men’s proclivities toward hookups vs relationships is predicted by cues for how attractive they are in early adolescence. I really doubt, when asked, all of these men are just lying and think deep down “yea, I really just want hookups, but I’ll settle for a relationship. But I’ll tell these researchers I want a relationship.” Some deal with the violent behavior. My guess is it’s most likely the uglier men just get socialized to behave less violently (in this example) and they internalize that behavior.

It’s just a population average, so plenty of ugly men are still assholes. I’ve just speculated it might be a contribution.

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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Perhaps they do exagerate it but I've seen plenty of women (especially the FDS women) do the inverse where they say most ugly guys are shitty people and most attractive guys are good people.

I don't think the guys here actually believe that all hot guys are bad and all ugly guys are nice. Its more that they focus their complaints on how hot guys get a pass on their negative traits when they have them and ugly guys are written off regardless of their positive traits. Basically the halo effect, attractive guys are automatically perceived as nicer, more intelligent, more funny trust worth ect and if they have red flags they are ignored, meanwhile ugly guys are automatically perceived as less trustworthy, creepy, dumb, boring and whatever red flags they have are amplified such that even if he gets a girl she will be looking for excuses to leave him.

Despite how they are perceived, Id say both can have positive/negative personality traits but perhaps for different root reasons. Like I could see ugly guys being more likely to become bitter while attractive guys being more prone to arrogance/narcissism. I could see attractive guys perhaps developing good personalities as a result of being treated better by peers and having more social opportunities available by default but you could also argue that ugly guys have more incentive to develop their personalities as a result of not being able to rely on their looks. As far as cheating you could say hot guys face more temptation but you could maybe say ugly guys have more fomo to make up for.

At the end of the day, sure guys here might focus on the negatives of hot guys but women just as much focus on the positives of hot guys and assume the worst about ugly guys. So it probably nets out in the end.

[–]cautionTomorrow555 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Firstly caring about ones own looks goes up with dark triad traits especially narcissism so guys with bad personalities are more likely to be good looking or have put in effort towards looking good. Secondly the problem is hot guys are spoiled for choice so the only reason an 8+ is still on the market and willing to date someone below him is because he has massive issues that make him undateable for women who are an 8 like himself such as being an evil cheater, abusive, liar etc. Thirdly being on the bottom as an ugly guy frequently forces you to develop good traits such as personality and humor and better morality because you know what it is like to be shit on so ugly guys are more likely to be nice upstanding people all because they could not get by on their looks like good looking guys or gender like women. Now of course ugly guys like you are describing can still exist, but you have way better odds with ugly guys treating you better than you do hot guys.

edit: and ugly guys are going to appreciate it more because they have less options think of it as a starving man being handed a hamburger to him that might as well be steak and he is going to appreciate it as such because he is starving.

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Well all that would be true of women, too, right?

I only ever dated one hot woman so low data count, but she was crazy which I suspect is why she was willing to date my ugly mug. The uglier women I dated if anything seemed to treat me worse because internally/subconsciously they were angry I was the best they could get and that I was not Chad even though I treated them just like the hottest woman I dated.

Do men think men should date ugly women in order to avoid cheaters and users, the same way they suggest women should?

I do think it is a bit different with women though because in the modern era even ugly women have entitlement because of the great treatment they have gotten by society due to feminism, you go grrrl positivity, and being handed an easier life due to not experiencing the discrimination men face/being treated with child gloves (with examples like getting treated better in education and for hiring). This means modern ugly and fat women never had to develop the good personality or humor that ugly guys were forced to develop. The previous generations of women though of the earlier gen X, boomers, or greatest generation never experienced a lot of that if anything they experienced the opposite so the ugly women from those generations usually were amazing people in my experience. Lost count of how many fat or ugly 50+ year old women I have enjoyed being around so much I would have dated in a heartbeat if they were 20 years younger.

[–]And_Rue 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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. That has NEVER been the case.

Elliot Rodgers is a good example of this. He didn't want just any woman, he wanted hot blond soriority girls.

They whine about fat girl,, and when shown that most women are fine dating short guys and slightly ugly guys, they just say "But that's only the ugly chicks! Male 5s shouldn't have to fuck ugly chick".

What Incels want is a healthy and a stable relationship

They can say that all they want, but the type of relationships they want is a woman obligated to worship him. That's why they constantly talk about government funded girlfriends or even forcing single moms to be with sexless losers. In what universe is that healthy and stable?

with an average woman or

They think instagram models is the "average woman".

Just don't be obese

I'm not. People actually see what incels write.

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You do understand that those 'Government mandated girlfriends' are jokes right?

"It's just a joke, bro!" They weren't jokes. Otherwise, they would have stopped using them when they realize no one was laughing with them.

And why should a 6 or 7/10 healthy and fit man have to settle for a landwhale?

What makes him think he's so hot? Even if he was that hot (doubt it), what makes him think there weren't other reasons other 6's and 7's didn't want him?

Most incel spheres are filled with average and above average larpers who don't want to settle.

That's the majority of the incels. No one's upset at the nice ugly dude that truly struggles with women.

When it comes to single moms there are plenty of Men aged like fine wine peak alpha gymgoing Mgtow redpill kings like Richard coper

That's how I know the government-mandated girlfriend thing wasn't a joke. You just said what you said unironically, so I know for a fact they'd talk about government-mandated girlfriends unironically too.

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Yeah, that might make sense. Definitely a possibility. Women want a man filled to the brim with lust and desire, but also with firm control over it and high standards, until she makes him lose all control just for her. That is the primal female sexuality in a nutshell.

I also think reactive female desire is partly behind the total lack of rationality when it comes to body positivity and women. With the obesity epidemic, this is adaptive. Men can still fuck if they think they are ugly. But women typically need to feel desirable, hence in order to keep their sexuality going, they need to delude themselves.

Thus men should be careful about poking holes in the female body positivity movement before actually dealing with female obesity. End result could just be a bunch of fat women who feel disgusting and don't want to fuck anyone lol

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[–]not0my0real0account76 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Hi! 🐸 I have a question about a hypothetical relationship scenario.

Let's imagine that you are in the living room with your beloved husband/wife. You've just bought a new large mirror and you are looking at it while walking, but you misstep and fall into the mirror. When you get up you notice that you are alone in the room and your husband/wife is on the other side of the mirror. You just landed in a parallel universe where everything is the same but your spouse is in the other universe alone. The mirror acts as a window now and it's the only way to see them. You can't go back and they can't reach you. You can't be heard and you can't hear them. How do you manage to keep the best of your relationship in this case? How do you deal with:

Communication: for example you write notes and show them through the mirror that is now a window? or you learn sign language? other ideas?
Dating: For example, each of you makes dinners at home and eats in front of the mirror? how would you dance while listening to the same song, for example? Other ideas for dating your spouse?
Cuddling. (For example, you could grab a pillow while sitting next to the mirror while the wife/husband does the same and look at each other while hugging the pillow.)
What activities could you do together? For example, you could play a board game. Any other ideas?

Thank you!

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Hi! 🐸 I'm 35, but it's true that mentally I'm extremely childish ( I took a test and my mental age is 14) because of my autism. I believe this is the reason you asked. In real life I usually don't talk to people (except work related) and spend 95% of my time alone learning/reading/working because it's really hard for me to understand society, relationships, people in general. I understand a robot better than a human. I read books and forums about relationships to understand better, but it's still very hard for me to find the logic in all this. This is why I can't connect to people and avoid them in real life (and, to be honest, maybe they avoid me too). I try to learn from people's experiences and opinions. I created this account for a challenge I saw here and then decided to keep it, to try to actually communicate with people and ask questions. It feels safer as it is not my real reddit identity so I'm not ashamed to ask questions. These scenario-questions that I post here help me understand a bit better. By the way, I decided to ask these questions here as the main theme on this subreddit are relationships. But I would like to find another subreddit with people that don't necessarily belong to a certain ideology and ask them too. However I'll keep posting the questions here too. I want to ask both groups to obtain as much information as possible. Do you know any subreddit where I could ask these questions?

Thank you!

[–]Mark_Freed1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thanks for your detailed answer. I was trying understand where these questions were coming from and yeah the way it was asked seemed like you were a young child. 14 was lower than I expected. I’ll keep an eye out and tag you if I find any such sub for that. There is dating advice and relationship advice subs but I think they are all too politically correct and I can’t recommend them.

r/asktrp is not bad but it’s answers from a very specific group. Your questions very hard to simulate since it’s something that cannot happen. It’s like girls asking if I’ll still love her if she turned into a frog. The question comes from a place of insecurity where you want to believe and know that you are loved for something intrinsic. Your soul. You don’t want that persons love for you to be based on anything that can be lost with age, accident, etc.

The truth won’t be the answer you are looking for so if you would rather be happy you should not ask questions to which you are not able to handle the answers for.

What type of job do you do? Do you think you can give consent? You don’t have to answer anything you are uncomfortable with. I am curious because I had used a person like you in an argument about age of consent.

I explained how we kept the physical age of 18 as the cutoff since it was a decent proxy for mental age. Most humans are expected to hit a mental age of sufficient maturity by then. Some humans need 25 some humans are mature enough mentally by 17 to consent, but we can’t trust individuals to judge for themselves because they have a conflict of interest.

So that’s why I asked you about your relationship status, and if you ever felt taken advantage of in the last decade. Again I repeat You don’t have to answer anything you are uncomfortable with.

[–]not0my0real0account72 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thank you very much for your help. I've been trying to find such subreddit for the last 3 days, but with no luck...

You were asking about my job. I'm a teacher (my subjects are artificial intelligence, web, 3D programming and natural language processing). My students actually like the fact that I'm a bit childish - they said classes are more fun, so it's not that bad. I'm also a programmer. I'm responsible at work. I should have probably said that emotionally I'm 14.

The subject does make me a bit uncomfortable. But the fact that I've avoided people usually kept me safe. I had a bit of a trouble with a colleague in high school that wouldn't leave me alone and kept trying to touch me (I was too ashamed and scared to ask for help, and the fact that I had no friends and generally talked to no one made things worse), but it only happened at school so he didn't try anything violent and in the end I managed to keep a safe distance.

Regarding the age of majority, I too believe it should take into account the person's experience, mental health, maturity. I'm sure there are children that are far more mentally mature than I am (or others like me), for example. Maybe it should depend on a psychological test that the person must take? And only if they obtain a certain score they should be considered an adult... For example, I was 18 when I voted for the first time. I voted the person because my mother said so - I did no political research. I've only recently started to actually care.

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Yeah a test might be better than relying on the physical age especially since casual sex is so accepted. Nice to know you feel this way too. All the best in better understanding human relationships. Interesting job, I’m also planning to teach something similar eventually.

I might be able to help if you have any abstract questions. I struggle with concrete scenarios that you find interesting. I need a lot of information and context to answer those. Like these decisions are usually taken by system 1 and it incorporates a lot of nuance and data into the final answer.

Both of us, we have very poorly developed system 1 skills. You should look into some meta questions, like understand exactly where your deficits lies. Like in my journey I realised I have a poor theory of mind, aphantasia, and I developed cognitive tools to make up for my emotional deficits. Stuff like calm, slow, visualisations of consequences in order to employ delayed gratification, setting up good habits, we are creatures of habit with high inertia.

This link might help. https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/qyc8fn/daily_community_chat_megathread/hliq3at/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3

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You’re half right/half wrong

In her case, yes. She was a very pretty girl, until she wasn’t. And unfortunately, she tied her entire life to that (which, in this one particular case, wasn’t her fault - she was explicitly told that was the only thing she was worth by the people who were supposed to be raising her. I watched them basically forbid any education). But now that she’s not the young, hot bartender? Work life is tough

So, her pickings are going to be slim bc she doesn’t bring much else to the table. And in her case, she’s not aging with grace - a 40+ year old woman with those TERRIBLE eyelash extensions looks ridiculous

On the other hand, dating as an older person (35+) isn’t the weird Mad Max hellscape it’s made out to be. 35 is statistically about when the first massive wave of divorce hits, which ushers in a new SMP/RMP filled with literally half the “catches” who got hitched at 27. The whole thing is invisible to people younger than this, though

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The fact that the majority of women on those platforms don't make that much money and it's a very small number of people who "make it"? "Go be a successful influencer" is literally just "go become a celebrity", there's a limited number of people who can succeed at it and luck is a huge factor.

Or that not everyone wants to or has the personality to do so? Even if you stay away from OF and go for less sexualized content, it's still a job that takes a ton of work that not everyone enjoys. I think men seriously underestimate the amount of work involved in creating an image, planning photoshoots, marketing, putting on a persona that catches people's attention...

Not to mention that it's a horrible long-term plan. Most of these jobs last maybe a few years (even for male content creators who don't have to worry about aging), then their fanbase drops off and they're stuck unemployed, at best with skills that aren't really marketable, at worst with porn of yourself on the internet forever.

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When I was talking with my mom and dad about men when I first started dating, they told me that there are some men that is willing to sacrifice too much for women. They deny their own happiness and put themselves down so much in the hopes of getting a woman that will finally give them that happiness and elevate their lives. They saw many relationships where they did find a girl, but because they secretly sacrificed so much, they expect the girl to make up for the sacrifice they made even if it's subconscious. They often put extra expectations on this girl and expect her wonderfulness to match his sacrifice, compared to a guy who just dated normally and never made such extreme sacrifices. They've seen relationships like that fall apart again and again. It's a tragic situation for both the guy and the girl.

It's a good thing to save money (and invest it), but don't do it for someone else. Relationships work best when both sides put in similar investment and effort, and we usually do that by both parties mirroring each other and giving a little bit at the beginning and progressively ramp up as they see the other side receiving their efforts well. Don't pre-sacrifice so much so that you start a relationship already thinking (subconsciously or consciously) that the girl is at a deficit effort/investment wise.

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[–]TheBookOfSeil0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

what makes her “dating down” if you still find her attractive? is it like, she’s less attractive than you but still attractive enough?

Yes, attractive enough for me personally, not for every other guy that looks comparable to me, which is the mistake that women make in assuming their own attraction level because of a past partner or guys that want to have sex with them. "If this guy likes me, then I must be equal to him. Otherwise he wouldn't want me." That's projection.

are there other things that come into play like personality and success to make a potential partner “below” or “above” your level, or is “dating down” purely physical in your interpretation?

Purely physical. The other non-physical things that influence attraction are more subjective and dependent on individual perception.

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would becoming fat make me find them attractive.

Because you have to lower your standards just like guys realized they had to do very early in dating. I knew I wasn't the best looking so wanting some hot Stacy type wasn't going to happen so I learned to like normal average women and chunky women.

I already don't expect much in the way of aged pension and my husband and I plan on self funding our retirement. So, fat single guys should too.

You are assuming your country doesn't violently fall apart before then because that sort of thing is exactly what happens whenever there is a large amount of unmarried guys who can't find a wife. That is why countries like China are absolutely terrified of it and are attempting to shame their leftover women to lower their standards they know what will happen if these guys don't find a partner.

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not a useful measure, as the other commenter said, that's nearly poor in some areas.

National average, not locational average.

The estate is a more stable measure since it represents what you accumulate, not just what you spend to survive

Not really because given enough time, someone with a low wage could save enough make them look "middle class" even though they are actually lower class.

plus, the average national income per household s almost 70k... 100k is not even double that...

Right, so middle class would be somewhere around there, not $200k.

yes love, yes.

Yes, and love isn't easily found. Women are not as likely to entertain men who don't make the cut in order to see if they can possibly get love out of it. Dating down in this context would mostly apply to people in their inner circle. Women aren't falling in love with random average guys walking down the street.

[–]nessaea-blue1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

National average

you can't talk about what with wealthiness is without accounting for local variation... since salary is innately local

low wage could save enough make them look "middle class"

very hard. Low wage people need to use nearly 100% of their wage to survive... aka rent, food, bills. There is a reason why poor people are poor, beyond their own incompetencies

I'm not saying is a fool proof measure, in saying is better than throwing out "100k+ national"

$200k

200k i agree is UMC (maybe not upper UMC, I'd say that is more around 300k), but this all started because you said 100+, not 200+.

love isn't easily found

eh. Lots of people find love. Keep in mind that half of people DON'T get divorced.

Women are not as likely to entertain men who don't make the cut in order to see if they can possibly get love out of it

Listen, what I'm saying is "the cut" for rich women does not include "dating up". If you're rich, you're worried about a man who provides LOVE not money, because you have the latter, not the former. This isn't a difficult concept. The "cut" is instead about appearance, personality, intelligence, etc. Obviously they aren't gonna date an uneducated, homeless, ugly idiot. Like i said initially, they will date sideways or down (to middle class, not dirt poor).

anyways, let's end it here, i have no interest in further discussion

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well, after owning a cat for exactly 4 months now, i gotta say this is a C+ tier pet.

You bring it into your home, and the first two months is teaching it to not destroy everything.

Then once it (sorta) learns to behave, it just... exists. It doesn't tolerate long interactions (at least my cat). It will decide a few times a day that it likes humans and come for pets. Then after 5 minutes it decides it has had enough pets and it leaves.

Like bitch, i bring you into my house and feed you, and you want to make the rules?

The benefits of the cat is how easy it is, care really is just the initial vaccinations then making sure it has food and water, it keeps itself entertained. And of course, very cute, warm, and soft.

I can understand the appeal and it is certainly better than being alone, but to compare this thing with a dog?

The dog knows you're the boss and plays by your rules, seeks your company and is utterly tolerant of your shit. Far superior animal, there's no comparison.

[–]SouthernGrass3 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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Not all cats are like that, or NACALT. I have lived with dozens of cats over the years and they have all been different.

Lived with a cat a few years back named Waffles. This little motherfucker was a puppy. He was the most affectionate amazing creature I have ever experienced and I grew up with dogs. Little dude followed me around all the time, so much so I would sometimes trip over him trying to get around the house. He just loved me. We fell asleep together every night. He never left my side when I was home. He was an affection slut through and through. Just wanted pets and love all the time. No snootiness.

A stark contrast to Moonbeam, a little tortie I lived with in my early 20's, who was a cunt that hated everything. She would hardly let herself be pet by people who lived with her for multiple years. Super persnickety. Shit animal.

Now imagine every personality in between those two, and that's cats for ya. Some are the coolest, some suck shit. Looks like you got a middle of the road cat, but that's not representative of most or all cats.

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No, I made a bunch of claims and you ignored all of them to focus on that one point. I even said the main point was that you cant know a creature that well until youre around it all the time. You didnt say shit to that and decided to attack one sentence out of many.

You just sound like a dog apologist. There's a shit ton of bad dogs that are bad regardless of how well theyve been trained. Dogs are more malleable than cats with training, but within that malleability is still a broad spectrum of behaviors. Some dogs regardless of how well trained could never be show dogs or rescue dogs or anything. They will just be asshole dogs.

Also it is easy to just get a good cat. Already explained this. When you go to a shelter there is literally a checklist of personality traits for you to choose. Some people like less needy cats, some people like puppy like cats, and everything in between. You found a mediocre cat on the street and then said "all cats are underwhelming pets". Unsure how thats reasonable in the slightest. You have only lived with one cat. You know fuck all.

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Yeah I mean I sometimes get a little irked when I'm subtly reminded of a preference that I don't pass, like height or handsomeness or whatever. But it's fine. I'd rather focus on things that are within my power to change like my career and education, than seethe forever over things like height.

I think it makes perfect sense for women to desire richer partners, and I bear no resentment towards what TRP calls "hypergamy", I think it's perfectly normal, reasonable, and natural. It's insane to rage against someone for looking out for their own interests, and if I was a woman, I'd go for a richer guy 100%.

So I don't get where all this seethe comes from when a guy is naturally more attracted to a younger woman. You take into account things like aging, appearance, and also fertility because for women the time when it becomes harder to have kids is way sooner than it is for men, and it makes sense for a guy looking out for his own interests to prefer these things.

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It’s hard to tell these things, at least with this girl I am certain she was not being dishonest or playing around. We met each other’s parents. She borrowed books from me to read. I will meet her again.

She seemed genuinely confused about her feelings for me. But she told me she struggles with rejecting guys. She hated to even use the word rejection, it’s so harsh. It’s hard for her to be rejected and to reject others due to empathy.

So in this situation I can’t expect an overt rejection I guess. But since I like her a lot I wonder if her confusion is about me and if I still have a chance. I ask her and she tells me even she doesn’t know. This stuff is complicated 😂

I am also kinda sure she isn’t afraid of anger. I didn’t give her any reason to think I’d react that way but sure she doesn’t know me.

For sure it’s hard to be rejected. I thought if I was rejecting someone it was best to give clear reasons that make us incompatible and thus it’s good that we don’t waste each other’s time.

But then I realised many things that make us incompatible end up being things that we can’t change easily and it can make us feel inadequate, try to change core parts of our identity. Overall the best way to reject is to make it clear and short. If a reason has to be given, make it something external to that persons identity. Unless you know the person genuinely wants to improve then I guess you can give the honest reason.

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt12 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mark_Freed2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Haha we discussed it. She said she likes nerdy guys, and it’s not that I’m too nerdy. We went through possibilities. The likely reason was how I wasn’t that good at flirting. So she was giving me tips to improve. I think it’s generally not having game, being masculine enough.

Attraction is really complicated. It’s not likely we will figure it out…

I might be overthinking this and she might have forgotten to reply, it’s only been 2 days.

I sometimes see a message and then plan to reply and then forget to reply.

This is the problem with a covert rejection. It’s possible to find favourable interpretations for any signal she sends me.

She doesn’t text me much and I ask her why and she tells me she isn’t really a big texter. 😂😂 I am jealous of these people who can read other peoples minds. Like people don’t realise just how much communication is non verbal. It’s amazing.

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I mean I had a crush on her. It’s hard to break it off when she isn’t saying yes or no. She wanted me to try and flirt better and see if this went somewhere.

Honestly it’s just been 2 days, I bet she will reply eventually and apologise. She is quite busy.

The thing is, at some point I have to make a call if it’s worth investing further time talking to her and if she will like me back eventually. Explicitly she just says “I feel sorry for you, you can talk to other girls, we aren’t exclusive”

But what if implicitly she means “please walk away so that we can end things amicably”? But I’ve tried assuring her multiple times I’m super cool if she wants to stop talking to me. We talked about the whole it’s just a compatibility thing if either of us want to walk away, I don’t know what else I could have done to make it easier for her to give me a clear answer.

Hmmm I don’t know. I usually break it off too early, in the future I think I’ll go this same route. I don’t think I handle it poorly. I tried my best, I got practice flirting. I will need to do this more often in order to be able to pick up on signals where she is uncomfortable but doesn’t want to express it overtly.

[–]SKY_ACTIV3We all self conscious I'm just the first to admit it 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Explicitly she just says “I feel sorry for you, you can talk to other girls, we aren’t exclusive” But what if implicitly she means “please walk away so that we can end things amicably”?

That is exactly what she means. “Go talk to other girls” means that she’s done with you, and she wants you to be done with her. If she was interested, the thought of losing you to another girl would be far more scary. It’s not an explicit answer, but it’s clear. In my eyes, she’s already rejected you. Either she’s keeping you as backup, or she’s too afraid to break it off. Both situations should read the same to you.

You are your own person. Is this the way you want a relationship with a girl to start? If not, then you’ve gotta be the one to put an end to it. You can’t always wait around for them to reject you, you’ll drive yourself crazy for no reason at all.

You’re not alone, I’d say that every guy finds himself in this situation at some point. But you gotta learn when to buck up and take the plunge. Nothing wrong with being sad about it after, but other girls will come.

“Hey, I’ve been thinking about things, and I don’t feel like this is going anywhere. I think we should go our separate ways for now”

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https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#%20

High COVID-19 vaccination rates were expected to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in populations by reducing the number of possible sources for transmission and thereby to reduce the burden of COVID-19 disease. Recent data, however, indicate that the epidemiological relevance of COVID-19 vaccinated individuals is increasing. In the UK it was described that secondary attack rates among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (25% for vaccinated vs 23% for unvaccinated). 12 of 31 infections in fully vaccinated household contacts (39%) arose from fully vaccinated epidemiologically linked index cases. Peak viral load did not differ by vaccination status or variant type

So unvaxxed and vaxxed can spread it with the same viral load.

How long do we keep this charade going about being fully vaxxed as a thing, or do we need more concentration camps like Australia just set up for those horrible unvaxxed people?

How much data is needed before people figure out the authorities at best have no idea how to handle this or whats going on, and thats just assuming incompetence not malevolence.

There's a reason we don't have a vaccine for the common cold thats effective. Guess what kids? Same shit here.

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That's what I said in my initial reply, that it reduces hospitalizations, which is the entire point. Once an outbreak or surge of cases no longer overwhelms medical facilities, nobody will care who is or isn't vaccinated. Until then, there's going to be a push.

Except it didn't overwhelm hospitals. That was all MSM fear mongering.

Not sure what Stalin has to do with trying to get the U.S. vaccinated enough to push through this, but what would be a more effective way to manage the current population?

Not force vaccinations. Let people decide for themselves.

The execution was horrible, and wasn't helped by changing leadership in the middle of it all, but I believe the methodology behind it is still the best way out there when dealing with a population of this size and diversity

Of course you do... and you are wrong.

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Sure, but that’s kind of an irrelevant point because you can’t detect asymptomatic infections in the unvaccinated group either, which we know also happen. That’s also a flaw with the fundamental study, not really the analysis.

It’s also a bit of a problem of definition, if we are arguing there are a huge number of “infected” people who are asymptomatic and therefore that means the disease severity decreases, that’s fine. But it also means the recorded rate of preventing infection is completely meaningless, because there are a huge cohort of “sick” people the study doesn’t detect at all. It basically puts you in a bind.

That’s a bit of an aside though, because most of what you hear people say on the topic is “oh, you got a symptomatic case of covid, but it wasn’t as bad because you were vaccinated.” That’s precisely what the author is criticizing, and perfectly in line with only detecting symptomatic cases.

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[–]E-2-butene1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sure, they absolutely had the same exposure, that’s beside the point.

This was the point of my paragraph about semantics. If we want to include asymptomatic cases (noting we are making an assumption that there are more asymtomatic cases in the vaccinated cohort when we have no measurement demonstrating that) as “real” cases, then sure, what he’s criticizing doesn’t necessarily demonstrate that the severity isn’t impacted. By the same token, the statement literally in the paper abstract that the vaccine “prevents SARS-CoV-2” has 0 experimental evidence for it either because they didn’t measure asymptomatic cases. Edit: you could basically sum this up as “the analysis is shit because the Pfizer data is shit.”

But again, the crux of his claim was targeting everyone claiming that “if you get a symptomatic case, you are less likely to get severely ill.” You can absolutely argue that when you are only measuring symptomatic cases because those cases are precisely the point of contention.

[–][deleted]2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What do you mean they had absolutely zero exposure?

It's really very simple: you have two identical groups of people living their lives identically (at the macro/group level). They only differ by whether their injection was randomly a placebo or Pfizer. You watch the groups for a period of time and record when anyone has symptoms. One group gets massively more symptoms than the other. Because of the study design at a population scale, you can confidently conclude that the vaccine caused the reduction in symptoms.

Edit:

if you get a symptomatic case, you are less likely to get severely ill

I'm not sure I've seen that specific claim, but at a population or even individual level I'm not sure that comparison matters.

For example (imaginary numbers pulled from my ass) suppose 20% of an unvaccinated population have symptoms and 5% are hospitalized. And suppose 5% of an vaccinated population have symptoms and 2% are hospitalized. It's true that the odds of a vaccinated person with symptoms being hospitalized increased from 25% (5%/20%) to 40% (2%/5%). But in terms of the entire population both symptoms (20% to 5% = 75% reduction) and hospitalizations (5% to 2% = 60% reduction) have decreased dramatically. I don't see why anyone should care or interpret that as the vaccine causing harm.

Edit 2:

the statement literally in the paper abstract that the vaccine “prevents SARS-CoV-2”

I don't see this anywhere in that paper?

[–]E-2-butene1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Last minute addition: I’ll qualify this post because in trying to find some of the older media articles peddling the argument, it does appear that a more recent article suggests that hospitalizations are remaining lower in vaccinated people even as overall vaccine efficacy is falling. I hadn’t seen this study, but it also doesn’t mean the conclusion was supported by the Pfizer study at the time.

What do you mean they has absolutely zero exposure?

Typo/brain fart. I edited it. I meant same exposure. Either way, not really an important point. We don’t disagree here.

We are largely arguing semantics here. The terminology uses in the Pfizer paper uses “prevents covid” insofar as it reduces symptomatic cases. This is what we (including health authorities) mean in every single disease context except for Covid when we say “vaccines prevent diseases.”

We have 0 idea what the vaccine does to asymptomatic cases. It could reduce them, thereby legitimately preventing incidence of infection. Or it could simply be that symptomatic cases are converted to asymtomatic cases and the total number of raw infections is the same. There is no way to tell from this data. All we know is the impact on symptomatic cases. But again, this is the case for every vaccine ever created, at least to my knowledge.

I could make this argument of literally any vaccine. If I wanted to be a radical skeptic, I could simply use this same argument to say it’s never been proven by direct evidence that any vaccine ever prevents a disease, we only have evidence they “reduce symptoms” because the number of symptomatic cases decreases. But most people would consider that an unreasonable position because symptomatic cases are the point of interest for nearly every single disease except covid. We don’t have these debates around asymtomatic cases for the flu, for example.

I'm not sure I've seen that specific claim

Well for starters, the article itself contained a tweet from a former director of the CDC promoting this exact point.

But it was pretty widely publicized at the time. I tried briefly to track down articles at the time of the Pfizer publication, but google insists I only care about he omicron variant now. I’ll look harder if you really care, but I don’t think it’s that important.

I don't see why anyone should care or interpret that as the vaccine causing harm.

Nobody is. The point was to combat vaccine misinformation. Thinking your symtomatic disease severity could have negative overall consequences if people concluded “I don’t need to be safe now because even if I get a symptomatic case, it won’t be bad. I can stop taking other precautions once I’m vaccinated.” I know people personally who had this exact belief based on media articles at the time.

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Basically, now that my internet is back.

The vaccines do literally nothing to stop you from giving or getting covid.

They may give you less of an effect from the virus, I honestly haven't studied that one in depth. Based on how badly they botched the idea of immunity, I'm concerned that itself may be false, but its not that important outside of the individual.

What this means is the reason to vaccinate the low risk groups to protect others is completely fictitious.

It means separating vaccinated from unvaccinated is pointless.

It means vaccinating your 5 year old is just risk without reward.

Its bad medicine.

Now I'm not saying don't do it, as an adult its going to be a personal choice, but you aren't helping anyone but yourself or hurting yourself depending if you have a better covid or bad vaccine reaction.

Title	Daily Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	6
Comments	949
Date	December 3, 2021 7:00 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/r7t2wp/daily_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/daily-community-chat-megathread.1088972 https://theredarchive.com/post/1088972

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