Why does it seem like progressiveness towards the gender roles only apply toward women?

ComfortableJeans · 2024-01-14T14:48:44+00:00

I don't have an issue with things like this, just because it lets me know immediately who to cut out of my life entirely. The second I pick up on this kind of princess attitude, I deliberately never interact with them again. They're just bad people.

I've had women buy me flowers and gifts. Those women are out there. Not that it's what I need as a partner. We actually spoke about how I couldn't afford to buy them things and that I'd still love them just as much if they didn't. They strill did, though. The women that realise I'm a person with feelings and wants to be loved by my partner. They wanted me to have nice things after seeing how I grew up.

Frankly, I'm glad things like this exist. I'm glad people who are this way are encouraged to be so open. Let me know that you're a bad person, second one. That way, I don't waste my time.

For me, this kind of attitude gives me whatever the boy version of an ick is. But for a persons whole existence.

More fool any bloke who puts up with that shit.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2024-01-14T14:10:30+00:00

Because the excuse of progressiveness is just this, an excuse. It's just a means to give women even more power while removing their accountability.

CringeButCorrect · 2024-01-14T14:15:39+00:00

Women dominate these movements. They run the studies and lead the organizations. They don't care as much about men.

JustAnotherBoymoder · 2024-01-14T15:50:46+00:00

This is especially true in the field of therapy. There was a topic about how men have higher suicide rates than women, in which the therapists on /r/therapists said men are unhinged emotionally stunted maniacs, chronic cheaters, and entitled. No wonder their suicide rates are that high when that's how they're viewed when they go to therapy, instead of with empathy.

Electronic_West_1831 · 2024-01-14T15:35:30+00:00

Women want to both have their cake and eat it, and “progressiveness towards gender roles” only at their convenience - they want equality when it suits them, and “traditional” gender dynamics when they benefit from it; it’s just another manifestation of their inherent narcissism and entitlement

quent_hand · 2024-01-14T15:45:44+00:00

I’m Mexican and was shocked to hear how things were in the USA when it came to “gender roles”. My father, grandfather and great-grandfather all helped their wives to cook, clean, child rearing, be involved in the child’s development. My brothers also help their wives. It may seem like at times the men do more or the women do more, but they never try to keep tabs on each other since everyone makes a great effort to play their part.

It seems like this is just in the USA because I have family and friends who live in Europe and everyone does their share of household chores, taking care of the kids, etc.

Pathosgrim · 2024-01-14T14:26:21+00:00

Women want their cake and to eat it too

Hot-Solution-1960 · 2024-01-14T14:22:42+00:00

honestly ,men just need to put their foot down more about what they will and will not accept. they whine and bitch but then continue to date these women.

i’ve dated some progressive men who would not ever agree to pay for my shit unecessarily. i didn’t actually like it at the time, but i eventually understood that in a progressive society, we split the bills equally. i have little issue with that now, though i’d prefer a man who wouldn’t mind treating me time to time, and i’d do the same for him.

it seems men’s problems are due to dating shallow, high maintenance women. maybe it’s the male equivalent of women dating fuckboys.

the challenge is that these people you cant stand are hot, so you keep paying attention to them even while you hate them.

purplish_possum · 2024-01-14T15:58:39+00:00

Women don't really want to be treated like men.

What women want is benevolent sexism. The benefits of equality without most of the burdens.

No-Rough-7390 · 2024-01-14T14:29:09+00:00

It’s never been about egalitarianism, it’s been about control and power.

mrs_seng · 2024-01-14T14:37:46+00:00

I encourage all women to split the bill on dates so the man has no expectations afterwards (sex bj, a second date).

Also, it sets the tone for a possible relationship that chores will be split 50-50, same for bills, rent, etc.

The only aspects that remain from the past are men doing the asking out and proposing to marry. And there are more and more (although still a small % overall, but it's increasing) women do the asking out and even propose.

Bouldershoulders12 · 2024-01-14T15:09:15+00:00

There’s no feminists in a house fire

People talk a good game about Progressiveness but their actions say otherwise. They gravitate towards traditionalism in the opposite sex. It’s biology.

desert_fly · 2024-01-14T16:59:00+00:00

Mmh, this seems to be such an US thing.

I'm from western Europe where splitting the bill is the default. And at least as long as there are no kids, most people don't have a problem with doing 50-50.

Concerning this sub, I have the impression that also the men aren't really interested in egalitarian relationships. Every time the "What do you bring to the table" discussion comes up, men advertise themselves by stating values such as "stable job, good income, providing security". The same values they claim they don't want to be chosen for 🤷🏻‍♀️

BatemaninAccounting · 2024-01-14T15:44:26+00:00

I'm easily the most progressive person that posts here.(My r/samharris cred for example). I'm also progressive for men's actual causes if you want to go over those. Many progressives are. Admittedly we don't put it on a top 20 list of problems within global human society, so it doesn't get focused on as much. There are bigger fish to fry, but rhetorically speaking if you can come up with a progressive issue for men, I'm likely on your side on it or have my own prog take that I think we should do.

Splitting 50/50 is seen as a red flag.

I'd say it's a red flag if this is a red flag for a woman or a man. Traditional men and women are the ones that view this as a red flag, not progressives.

Not paying for her nails and hair is seen as you don’t care for her.

Again its 2023, she can pay for her own nails and hair if she really wants it. If I want to pay for it because I want to treat her to something special, that's cool too. Should not be any expectations of it.

Not opening door and being “chivalrous” is seen as not being a “real” man.

Everyone should open the door for everyone. Young and old.

Ultimately I think you're claiming that progressives think these things and from my own progressivism and people that I read regularly, these are definitely not progressive takes. They're traditionalist ones, maybe even neo-traditionalist.

thisreallyisnotok · 2024-01-14T16:59:18+00:00

It’s just getting very hard for feminists to simply ignore the extreme gendered language from young zoomer women on social media. I do think it’s very possible that China may be intentionally manipulating tiktok to be influence young western women who they probably see as their biggest cultural threat. This needs to be addressed. There’s something wrong with the girls like there was “something wrong” with the boys like a lot of the news articles in the 90s claimed. These girls addicted to social media are having a social experiment performed on them and it’s not happening to men in the same way

jay10033 · 2024-01-14T16:06:59+00:00

Because people generally advocate for the things that benefit them. We know it's hypocritical, but folks will die on a hill to advance their own benefit.

PFCthrowAwayMTL · 2024-01-14T14:44:47+00:00

I’m currently going through it big time. I’m afraid to get married. My in laws didn’t instill good financial values in my SO. She does not make real efforts to save. It seems i have to let my SO have a say in what size home we buy when she doesnt have a downpayment now??? Im thinking we should just stay renting

0DarkFlirty · 2024-01-14T15:41:35+00:00

Because gender equality as it pertains to behavior is total nonsense lol

Bekiala · 2024-01-14T15:01:18+00:00

It sounds like there are some awful people around you. Sigh. Not that awful people are uncommon. I don't doubt there are women who want to squeeze money out of you. I hope you can stay the hell away from these women.

In my family women have been increasingly involved with the work force and the men have been increasingly involved with children and household. My 88 year old dad mentioned how much more involved he was with his children than his father and then, how much more involved his son and son in laws were with their children than he was.

I can see that there are many families that don't work this way so my tiny anecdote may not have much to do with overall reality.

I have seen statistics that say there are some 600% more single fathers than 75 years ago but the number of families headed by single fathers 75 years ago was super small.

Anyhow I hope you can avoid the people wanting money out of you specially for dumb stuff like nails and hair.

edit: changed word

MassiveAd1026 · 2024-01-14T17:07:00+00:00

It sounds like what you're saying is since women have abandoned their traditional gender roles.

Men should do the same.

Windmill_flowers · 2024-01-14T15:23:00+00:00

I listened to that guys rant.

"Your grandfather earned your grandmother"

Something about that phrasing seems archaic and unhealthy. Women are not compensation that men are given for hard work. We're people. If we're equals, then what did grandma do to earn grandpa? Nothing?

kcmiz24 · 2024-01-16T00:02:40+00:00

Progressivism is a spoils system that doles out societal favors to racial & sexual minorities and women in return for fealty.

Dexius_Arentius · 2024-01-16T00:30:46+00:00

Because American liberalism metastasized from a foundation of puritanical theology. Features of Puritanism are doublethink, black/white thinking, mass hysterical reaction, smug moral superiority, and a wicked martyr complex.

Lower-Director1043 · 2024-01-16T19:35:27+00:00

Women are the biggest hypocrites the sooner men learn to realize this the better.

Lower-Director1043 · 2024-01-16T19:35:33+00:00

Women are the biggest hypocrites the sooner men learn to realize this the better.

Crimson-Pilled · 2024-01-14T14:37:35+00:00

Traditionalism and progressivism are two sides of the same gynocentric coin. One offers the man's slavery to the woman, the other promises her freedom. Neither are concerned with the man's freedom.

gopher_glitz · 2024-01-14T18:56:10+00:00

Progressiveness for Men, like splitting the bill or being a stay at home dad is just a turn off.

You can't 'progress' out of sexauilty.

Plazmatron44 · 2024-01-14T23:17:48+00:00

It doesn't seem that way it is that way, feminism is simply female narcissism formed into an ideology which is why it's all take take take, having their cake and eating it and compromise being a word they've never heard of.

lacuti3 · 2024-01-14T15:20:43+00:00

Men don’t care about women they only care about sex. Women don’t care about men or sex, they only care about making their own lives easier. They purposely keep men sex obsessed so they’re easy to exploit. Women generally care more about their own survival than the survival of the species.

I could reply to most ppd posts with this and it would make sense

theReaders · 2024-01-14T14:44:18+00:00

Those views of men are conservative, not progressive.

resoredo · 2024-01-14T14:53:44+00:00

men need their own movement because they are also the ones that tend to be the one judging other men when they are not manly enough.

go hug your bro, ask him how he is, talk about your feelings and stop pretending its all women's fault, when there are so many men that would never data a successful or career woman, or a woman that earns more than he does. this is still the reality

bikerider6969 · 2024-01-14T16:06:12+00:00

Because wokeism is a joke ideology

Fantastic_Drop_3852 · 2024-01-14T16:17:57+00:00

Because men inherenlty avoid progressive ideas towards one self as it has no utility in reality for a guys life

No_Historian_1601 · 2024-01-14T19:14:46+00:00

It doesn’t bother me as much because women are waking up yo the toxic feminism more and more. Saw a Instagram post about a woman that wasn’t a “girls girl”. Lots of women wanted to cancel her but surprisingly lots of other women were mad at “girls girl” being controlling and toxic. The video was abouta a female stranger paying to compliment to another woman. And the woman gave the stranger a stank look. The woman making the video was bitter and thought this was the era of “girls girl”. Etc but the entitlement of a complete stranger is what women complain about with men approaching them. Was her reaction rude? I would agree, but it’s it legal, she has free will, and can express herself? YES. Lots of women are realizing being a girls girl is a toxic mindset that is reversing the progressiveness of women. Toxic women use the girls girl to defile and Shame women. It’s similar to the male patriarchy thay feminist complain about of controlling women. One woman told me we are free of our male oppressors and us as woman share the same experiences so we should treat each other kindly….still doesn’t change the fact the woman was a total stranger. It’s crazy how no one gave this rude woman Grace, if a man approached a woman and then made a video complaining about the woman’s reaction. Women in the comments would crucify him.

Specific_Praline_362 · 2024-01-14T23:31:36+00:00

You literally picked a video from a right-wing TikTok channel by Herschel Walker's son and are trying to say this is a reflection of progressiveness? Most right-wing channels from either gender are going to have these types of comments lmao

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-01-14T17:04:07+00:00

Because none of it was ever about getting sex or love. Men have the exact same right to abandon their traditional gender rolls as women do comma what they do not have is the right to have women be attracted to them and have sex with them if they do it. Feminism doesn't care if anybody has sex

cromulent_weasel · 2024-01-14T19:41:50+00:00

What do you think being 'progressive towards men' would look like? Because I think men are better and more engaged fathers now than they have ever been, and that's definitely a big thing in my book.

But it seems that the prevailing attitude towards dating for men is “what can he do for me financially”.

The last 4 first dates I went on with different women, ALL of them made a point to split the check. Maybe you're just being terminally online? Or maybe you're picking women who aren't a good fit for you?

Of course finances are a big part of a relationship, but it seems like it’s number 1 on their list instead of liking the person for who they are.

So, there's an elephant in the room here which you seem to be ignoring. Which is raising a family. Which really only applies to young people. For a women to envisage starting a family with you, even though she is working now, ideally she would be able to focus on babies when she has them and not have to work at the same time. That of necessity mandates that YOU have a good enough job to provide for your family while they are vulnerable and not able to provide for themselves.

Now, if you are past having babies, or going to be childfree, then that's all completely moot and your points are valid.

liking the person for who they are

Speaking as someone who is in the throes of a divorce, can you ever really know who another person is?

TWCDev · 2024-01-15T01:20:44+00:00

The person who makes more should pay more, when you’re having fun, your time is equally used, but one of you usually makes more. For now, men normally make more. But my friends where the woman is a doctor or lawyer and the man is customer service or something, the woman usually pays. This seems right to me

Soloandthewookiee · 2024-01-14T21:17:15+00:00

Because women have fought for it. The largest group of men's advocates care less about gender roles and more about who pays on a first date.

Literal_Jesus_ · 2024-01-14T15:06:55+00:00

I’m not a “pay for my shit” lady but I’ve heard too many horror stories about men leaning into full deadbeat and becoming another mouth to feed (in addition to the kids) with nothing else to offer. Picking up the tab every now and then signals to single women who are financially independent that you aren’t going to become another mouth to feed down the line. And is just a nice thing for both members of the couple to do now and again. But it should never be the norm or an expectation

The only difference here is selection. If the man they’re with won’t meet these standards (no matter how ludicrous) chances are there’s another guy in line who will.

Not all women believe this or behave this way. Learn how to say no and hold out for these women.

“Oh but I can’t because____” idk what to tell you then there are plenty of women that pay their own bills whose biggest concern with committing is their potential partner’s emotional immaturity and a stale bedroom.

Most women discovered they had options by leaving men that weren’t doing their version of the bare minimum. Do the same. Live with the results. The same way women do

AceOfSpadesGymBro3 · 2024-01-14T14:30:02+00:00

If you are so angry at this injustice you should organize a male protest.

Key-Faithlessness-29 · 2024-01-15T01:43:30+00:00

It's upto men and they themselves won't let another man enjoy the benefits of progressiveness. Nobody demeans another man about their masculinity more than other men. You always see "men should be providers" "real men pay" "men should take care of their women" from other men mostly. Feminists are down to break this gender role but men won't let them. Especially so called 'red pill'-ers

burner4567890 · 2024-01-14T14:25:22+00:00

create your own movement

Different_Cress7369 · 2024-01-15T08:00:07+00:00

It seems that way because that’s what you’re looking for. Not having to conform to gender roles means that my sons didn’t get told off for crying when they hurt themselves as kids, that they could happily learn how to cook, bake, sew, knit and dance without being bullied over it. Not being forced be always be masculine in every way allowed one of my sons to explore his artistic side and take painting lessons; something his father was never allowed to do because “art is for sissies”. My boys played with dolls when they wanted to - mostly they didn’t, but they weren’t shamed or refused access to them - and are growing into well rounded young men. Their cohort are much more likely to work in areas like teaching or nursing than their fathers were, and are much more likely to demand parental leave from employment to care for and spend time with their children. Boys and men being able to embrace their feminine side is a huge boon for society.

SmallSituation6432 · 2024-01-15T17:13:57+00:00

The answer is that progressive movements have historically been about progress for oppressed groups. Because of that, the language and focus is not really well suited to the kinds of social progress you're talking about for men. Feminism should already cover these changes your talking about for men, and a lot of feminists do include them; a shift in focus from oppression towards equality does address them. However, because there still exists a great deal of sexism and oppressive views towards women, that kind of focus on equality just isn't going to be the overall focus, there are more important woman specific things to address.

apresonly · 2024-01-15T20:19:44+00:00

> Splitting 50/50 is seen as a red flag.

bc this benefits men

when men are only interested in "equality" that benefits them but aren't worried about being 50/50 in other areas of the couples lives, obviously that's selfish and fucked?

uglysaladisugly · 2024-01-15T20:40:38+00:00

Men do not have to provide for their wife and kids by themselves anymore. Men do not have to build the shelves, repair stuff, make fire anymore. Men do not have to pay for every date ever anymore. Men do not have to drive carry the bags, hold the doors, give their jackets to women in general anymore. The whole concept of women and children first disappeared.

Tell me more how the gender roles didn't change for men?

444oo · 2024-01-14T17:46:47+00:00

It seems there’s a discrepancy or a lag between what is expected of a man vs a woman. Splitting 50/50 is seen as a red flag. Sending only 20 dollars to a girl for food is seen as broke man behavior. Not paying for her nails and hair is seen as you don’t care for her. Not opening door and being “chivalrous” is seen as not being a “real” man. By the way, in these scenarios they’re not even married.

Now I don’t mind doing any of these things for a girl I like.

Because every woman knows that when a man likes her, he wouldn’t see dating her as a burden. When a man likes a woman, he wants and knows he has to leave a good impression.

Now, you’re not forced to do any of these things if you don’t want to. The examples above are just societal expectations; luckily, society doesn’t pay your bills, so Fuck Society and its expectations on you. But that being said, don’t be mad when women don’t want a second date with you. At the end of the day, dating is a game, so don’t hate the players, hate the game.

Diamond-Breath · 2024-01-15T12:58:10+00:00

Because the so called "50/50" doesn't really exist in the majority of the households. Women are still doing most of the household chores (if not all) and they're the ones being the primary parent in almost all the cases (I always noticed how my female college professors were the ones that took care of the children and brought them to the classroom or went absent to take them to the doctor, for example), while still expected to look way better than her man and to work and contribute to the bills.

Why would I pay for a man when my gender role is still assigned to me? Especially when I have more at risk, I could get pregnant, get an STD, be physically/sexually assaulted, I could even get killed.

Oh and no orgasms, men have them guaranted. We don't.

esdebah · 2024-01-14T16:01:53+00:00

Move to a progressive city or state and you'll find that it applies to all. Or do the hard work of making your area more progressive by not going along with stuff you think is bullshit. Don't think I'm being dismissive. It IS hard work.

KayRay1994 · 2024-01-14T16:26:44+00:00

in short, because we were in a heavily patriarchal system and in order to change that advocacy for women’s rights is the primary focus. There are a ton of learned habits across generations that take time to change, and its often hard to discard parts of a system that once benefited you (though also, to be fair, more women are okay with 50/50, $20 on a meal isn’t a big deal for lots of women, and the taking care of her bit isn’t as common as you think it is - a lot has changed in that front) - to add to this, there has been a bigger focus on men’s issues, even amongst feminist spaces, as patriarchy at this stage is less of an ongoing tangible system and more a set of strongly engrained set of cultural and social ideas

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excess_inquisitivity · 2024-01-14T20:52:41+00:00

The girl can get away with making such demands.

The boy who doesn't want to put up with that crap...doesn't.

This dynamic exists among people whether adult or children.

Extension-Inside-826 · 2024-01-15T03:54:30+00:00

Tbh, it’s more like “men must conform to be alt right ideals of beauty” while women can do whatever they want, and if you put in more effort as a woman you’re actually not doing the right thing

Worth-Lake2717 · 2024-01-15T09:13:58+00:00

this is a very american thing... i feel like that in the us it is very important how much a man makes... mybe because the us is such a capitalist state?

in more social and more "feminist" countries it is not really such a strong criteria... for example germany, netherlands, scandinavia, canada etc.

Perrenekton · 2024-01-15T11:45:37+00:00

It seems there’s a discrepancy or a lag between what is expected of a man vs a woman. Splitting 50/50 is seen as a red flag. Sending only 20 dollars to a girl for food is seen as broke man behavior.

That's not what I see in real life from women who want equality, but that's real life and not comments on IG or tiktok and I believe that's where the difference lie. Using the internet as a source of "what x people want" is close to 0% accurate

TidyMess123 · 2024-01-17T00:55:39+00:00

Okay, here’s the thing. Women have really only had the ability to make a meaningful and lasting change on society as a whole, for only about 100 years or so, men have had this impact for millennia. When it comes to change, the baseline is a society nearly entirely created by men for men. But remember, we are still in a transition period, this societal change doesn’t happen overnight. Each and every woman is still being held to gender expectation or norm that they disagree with in someway. For some women, this can even be impacting her in a lot of ways. So frankly, it can be a great big slap in the face when she is still being subjected to lingering gender inequality based oppressions, while having the few decent and enjoyable parts taken away from her in the name of the very same equality she is fighting for. You’re taking away the good parts before fixing the bad parts.

pizzafish- · 2024-01-17T13:22:00+00:00

I think you have a problem with capitalism, not women. Just a guess

Title	Why does it seem like progressiveness towards the gender roles only apply toward women?
Author	Nobodyherem8
Upvotes	186
Comments	373
Date	January 14, 2024 2:00 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/196gigp/why_does_it_seem_like_progressiveness_towards_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-does-it-seem-like-progressiveness-towards-the.1242955 https://theredarchive.com/post/1242955

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