The average man is shamed when he has standards. How to make someone understand that this is not cool?

bluestjuice · 2023-09-02T00:44:56+00:00

I don't actually care that other people have standards - I have my own standards, as do most people presumably.

Someone's standards might or might not be sexist, but without knowing what they are I can't make a judgment about it really. If you really feel the need to declaim about your particular standards, it does open them up for discussion, commentary, judgment, and perhaps ridicule, depending on the opinions of the audience.

The thing I've noticed is that people whose standards really are just about their personal requirements but who don't ascribe a moral value to people based on whether or not they adhere to their standards tend to be far more laid back in conversations about them. Most of the pushback you're perceiving likely has to do with people's judgments about the moral value you ascribe in describing your particular standards, not simply that they exist.

Example: when you write "women I was disgusted with because I saw certain degrading things they did," you're not merely stating a personal standard, you're describing a moral value to the actions and the person involved. These women are, in your own words, *disgusting* and *degraded.* This moves the entire conversation from a discussion about the actual standard to a discussion about the validity of your moral value. The character of your moral judgments is the thing bringing the shaming and judgment of others on you.

itsfknoverm8 · 2023-09-02T00:14:55+00:00

Worth noting that "insecure" is a common criticism of men who take issue with their partner's sexual past, despite there being an ostensible public push for men to not be constantly seen as strong/ stoic. May indicate that traditional gender roles are still being upheld for men. Additionally, there is nothing inherently negative about insecurity.

Generally its hard for any movement to be internally consistent, so the push to eradicate traditional gender roles for women tends to fail to take into account the same for men.

MidoriEgg · 2023-09-02T08:04:02+00:00

I think the thing about subreddits (or any other internet niche) is that they tend to have a pre-prescribed set of beliefs/standards that isn’t always reflective of the wider world. I’m not sure why it’s so important to you that these certain Reddit groups accept your beliefs.

If people IRL assumed you’d be a bad boyfriend, that suggests maybe a personality issue that goes beyond just having standards. Are you talking about those standards at inappropriate times?

I guess what im saying is that we all have standards, but there’s a time and place to talk about those. Of course you can have standards about a partners sexual past, but chiding random women on the internet about theirs is of course going to get you a negative reaction.

PercentageGullible11 · 2023-09-02T03:37:45+00:00

I’ve only had success with one argument and, even then, it can only work with women, not simps:

No woman has ever been tricked into raising children that aren’t hers. Therefore, men have a stronger taste against sexual impropriety than women - ancient men who didn’t watch out for potential paternity issues died off.

Trying to explain male revulsion for ugly sexual pasts is like trying to explain female anxiety for sexual assault. On some level, men can understand that women feel more strongly about creeps and compromising situations than men do. But the men will never really get it.

So too it is with men’s aversion to bad pasts. Women will never get it, but they should at least understand that men feel more strongly about promiscuity than they do and it is for a good reason - paternity fraud is the worst possible sexual outcome for a man - not an arbitrary preference.

MarauderSlayer44 · 2023-09-02T10:33:03+00:00

HA. Be awkward enough as a guy and you aren’t even allowed standards for yourself. People will sic onto you even for looking at a girl if they believe you’ll make her uncomfortable for any reason in the case you tried to talk to her.

Adept-Emphasis4104 · 2023-09-02T13:59:36+00:00

Retroactive jealousy is the most pathetic sub reddit I’ve ever seen. Like sheesh. Imagine trynna therapy yourself to be with someone you don’t want to be with just to conform to society

RonMexico432 · 2023-09-02T14:00:15+00:00

Stop apologizing for your "standards". Stop apologizing for being "toxic", or whatever silly buzzword they use. Be who you are. If they don't like it, that's their problem. It's like the whole calling conservatives n@zis. The bite isn't there anymore. It's not just going to shut people up anymore. Call me whatever kind of istaphobe. I don't care. Myself, and the people I love, know who I am. I don't care about some dorks on the internet.

RemainderZero · 2023-09-02T00:23:23+00:00

I feel you bro. The women of this sub react "generally negative" when I insinuate their own standards back on them. They probably think I'm the paragon basement dwelling neck-beard but in reality all my GFs have at some point individually verbatim thanked me for being so "classy" that it was weight off their shoulders.

My advice is that you just frame this feminine culture as an avatar of women and accept the kind of person that avatar is. You can't change her, don't try.

eye_of_gnon · 2023-09-02T11:16:18+00:00

Women are very averse to being judged or blamed for anything because it lowers their SMV, deflecting blame is their sexual strategy

demedermidimi · 2023-09-01T23:15:02+00:00

the average man can't be shamed for having standards, because no one knows your standards untill you tell them. as for people shaming you when you tell them, unfortunately people can be unreceptive, judgemental, and mean. such is life

avgprius · 2023-09-02T02:57:57+00:00

Wait how do i get invited to a college gangbang?

NothingOrAllLife · 2023-09-01T23:52:26+00:00

A man expressing that he’d prefer to date a woman with the same sexual experience as himself is not going to get any pushback.

A man saying he thinks women with over xyz partners are disgusting or touting about the joys of casual sex while disparaging women who engage will be rightfully ridiculed for his hypocrisy.

The men that complain about this often don’t want people to simply let them have their preferences, they want others to agree with them.

Safinated · 2023-09-02T00:52:01+00:00

Women are called unreasonable, delusional, entitled, hypergamous, demanding, and picky 🤷‍♀️

harmonica2 · 2023-09-02T00:46:55+00:00

I mean lots of people are complaining when they are dumped so I guess they retaliate but so what. People are like that, it happens.

wtknight · 2023-09-02T01:10:06+00:00

I think that there are plenty of women out there who understand that a "purer" guy doesn't want a woman with an intense or prolific sexual past. I think that what most women aren't going to be as understanding of are men who were promiscuous themselves who are judgmental about women's sexual pasts.

One also doesn't have to verbalize those reasons for rejection, either. The couple of times I wasn't interested in women because I knew that they were promiscuous I just didn't say anything.

AngeCruelle · 2023-09-02T01:45:06+00:00

Don't bother. Expressing your dating preferences means someone will take issue with it. It's their right to judge your preferences just as it's your right to have them.

I have been told countless times that I'm "classist" for requiring the men I date to have at least a bachelor's degree. The number of fucks I have to give is low on account of my romantic interest not being something men are entitled to out of "fairness." What kind of nonsense is that.

SteveSan82 · 2023-09-02T04:19:29+00:00

Women who complain about male standards are women you wouldn’t want anyways so who cares? Those women are trash

Oli_love90 · 2023-09-01T23:23:47+00:00

I think anyone can have any set of standards they please but Ialways wonder: - why do you feel the need to speak them aloud? - You’re already in a relationship so what’s the benefit of telling either those close to you or the internet your standards? Is it in an effort to make other guys adhere to your standards - if so, why? They should develop their own set of standards. - in sharing your standard what do you think will happen?

I think you’ll get pushback because realistically there’s no actual reason to share your standards with anyone.

richard_golbes · 2023-09-01T23:26:28+00:00

The average man is pushed back on when he takes to the internet to loudly and obnoxiously demean - in the most dehumanizing language possible - any and all women who do not meet his standards.

Don't be a jerk and you'll be fine.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2023-09-02T00:26:07+00:00

It’s not a problem for you or anyone else to have standards. It’s a problem when you try to push your standards onto others and try to put women in their place/make them feel bad about themselves.

DreaminInChocolate · 2023-09-01T23:32:42+00:00

No one knows the standards of anyone else until they start spouting them off. At that point they're welcoming the opinions of everyone to speak. Not everyone is going to agree with you. The bigger question is why do you care?

Now someone please tell me, is there any way to make those close to you understand the importance of having non-superficial standards? And I do not mean the complete absence of superficial standards, but at least the presence of more serious and realistic standards.

Their standards are their business and don't concern you. They're allowed to like what they like and judge what they don't like too. Everyone can do that.

SmilesRHere · 2023-09-02T01:13:31+00:00

You are not being shamed for “having standards”, but believing your preferences are standards and for trying to impose your preferences on others by stating they are standards. Very much the same mess that’s happening throughout the USA, book banning, anti abortion laws, paranoia about LGBTQ, guns and more.

People trying apply/impose/force their “standards” on others.

I’m your opposite, I’ve had what most would call an incredible sex life, haven’t been longer than a week out of a relationship, many many women fell in love with me, wanted to marry me. I married a certified genius, well known in her field, respected and admired, what many don’t know is the kind of sex life she had before me and since we’re together.

We are a perfect match, sexually, intellectually, culturally, socially, professionally my wife and I, still very much in love and happy after 18 years, and your so called standard about women not being allowed to have fun like guys is pure hypocrisy and misogyny, basically disgusting to us.

It may be semantics, but when people use the words “I have standards” they almost exclusively mean they have superior tastes and look down on others which do not have the same preferences.

You get shamed for saying you or men have standards, because those are not standards just your preferences.

TammyMeatToy · 2023-09-01T23:56:21+00:00

Now someone please tell me, is there any way to make those close to you understand the importance of having non-superficial standards?

Try not writing a 9th grade essay about how you get flamed on dating based subreddits for posting your probably unreasonable standards. I dont do any of that stuff and I've never been shamed.

96tillinfinity_ · 2023-09-02T00:40:13+00:00

As degenerate behavior from women becomes more and more normalized, the number of men who are “insecure” “misogynistic” and “toxic” will grow 10 fold in the next decade as more and more men slowly raise their standards and do not accept such pasts

Women like that do not being held to standards. So, rather than change their behavior, they will lie continue to lie about their pasts and/or try to shame men who do not accept their pasts

relish5k · 2023-09-02T00:26:46+00:00

I guess the question is then…do you hold yourself to the same standards to which you hold others?

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-09-02T04:53:19+00:00

I've been reading a lot of r/TwoXChromosomes posts and there are a lot of women lamenting that their boyfriends ended their relationships when they found out about their sexual pasts, there are even extreme cases like College Gangbangs. And this is almost unanimity there;

How is that shaming?

I was banned from r/dating for defending that men also have the right to have standards, while many people defend the lack of female responsibility when a woman ends up suffering the consequences of her own superficial standards;

I will bet my next paycheck that you were not banned simply for defending men having standards. But, from your usage of the phrase "female responsibility," my guess is you were defending men from not wanting a woman who has touched more penises than you're personally comfortable with, most likely with colorful language that I would wager is the real reason you got banned.

Personally, I've been accused of being gay, sexist and insecure for rejecting women I was disgusted with because I saw certain degrading things they did;

I'm noticing that you keep referring to things in very, very vague terms. Why not just give specifics? But yeah, definitely getting majorly sexist and insecure vibes from this whole post.

When I started dating, some people assumed I would make a terrible boyfriend due to the fact that I have standards, however my girlfriend only speaks highly of me to others, and her parents treat me like I'm their son . Anyone who thought I would be bad seemed to be disappointed with this fact.

Good for you, why do you need universal approval for your "standards" then?

Having standards does not make me a misogynist who treats women badly, but it has the opposite effect, having standards is something that helps me value the woman who is by my side today, precisely because she meets my standards.

If you shit on women for doing something consensual that harmed nobody, then yes, you are treating women badly.

I'm called sexist when I advocate that men have the right to have standards, and I'm also called sexist when I advise women to have less superficial standards.

As is always, always, always the case when men here complain "we don't get to have standards," the issue is how you discuss and treat people outside your standards. It's like when dudes here whine about "land whales," get called out for being assholes, and then cry, "Men can't have standards!!1!"

Over_North8884 · 2023-09-02T06:57:02+00:00

As the world turns ...

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Notsonewguy7 · 2023-09-02T12:33:37+00:00

Personally there's no way for you to voice your standards in a way that's not going to hurt someone's feelings or cause some sort of form of condemnation.

The best you can do is know what your standards are and when you run into someone that doesn't fit your standard it's just reject them the real issue comes from voicing it. I know it might seem counterintuitive but the truth is people don't like honesty (or a honest person) most would rather believe that they have a chance then know that there's something about them that automatically eliminates them.

Cethlinnstooth · 2023-09-02T02:12:28+00:00

There's a lot of different people in the world and they have very different and often very strongly held opinions on a wide range of different standards a person can have in dating or work or politics or really any significant matter. I'm of the opinion that in real life people should largely keep their big mouths shut about evangelizing their personal standards to others unless they have good reason to suspect that everyone they are talking to is receptive. If you want to talk about something that gets some people off side, try sidling up to the concept not outright declaring a side. Then they can make response to the level they feel comfortable... and you can ponder to what extent you want to go in on the matter.

It's social skills, man. I can just about be certain you're some guy who hasn't actually done much with his life yet. People aren't always gonna just fucking agree with you on everything and a lot of them are going to fight you hard on everything. Not just this topic, any topic. That's people. Some are congenitally disagreeable.

Also basically you probably just implied their relationships are shallow..They don't like that whether it is true or not. Just like you didn't like it when I implied you are worthless in the previous paragraph...whether it is true or not you don't like it.

Behave less dislikable in real life because you don't seem to have the skills to know how to behave dislikable without causing permanent offense or have the clout yet to get away with causing permanent offense.

Also...one girlfriend of relatively short duration so far does not constitute proof of anything.. ooooh look now a girl has liked me for a year now you need to listen to me...do you now realise how ridiculous that is to fully grown people who have either been through a very normal and ordinary relationship cycle that took years, of liking and then not liking or having been liked then not been liked...or seen it happen to their friends over years? Your girlfriend doesn't prove anything. People have fully fledged marriages of decades then their spouse comes out of the closet as not attracted to their gender. Omg. Your girlfriend agreeing you're fine means nothing when it comes to convincing others. Her parents treating you well means nothing it is common to tactically stfu about how you feel about your kids boyfriend

Okay...now the anonymous part of the internet is a different place in terms of how people interact. You're going to find pockets of people there you want to disagree with and who disagree with you. They are often there specifically for the precise argument you want to have. BUT...the very protection of anonymity that emboldens you emboldens them. You see how deep the disagreement can go. Let that inform how careful and considered you should be in discussion about this in real life.

Disagreeing with people is hard and has consequences. Disagreeing with them in a way that convinces them is even harder. It is hard in the way chess is hard... complicated and with many things to learn. You're not there yet. You're a long way from there.

Right now you need to learn how to approach contentious matters cautiously and shut up about something without actually changing your mind on it. You don't seem to have that skill but it is an important one. I can assure you that the vast majority of people who get to change other people's opinions have very complex development of this skill.

Look at the absolute mess that Jordan Peterson has become. He had this skill. Then he had benzos, a coma, COVID...had to learn to walk again so that's indicating brain damage and he clearly lost a lot of this skill. Doesn't know when and how to shut the fuck up. Loses as many supporters as he gains.

Zabadoodude · 2023-09-02T02:45:16+00:00

Men don't have the same group solidarity that women do. So I doubt this will change anytime soon.

Most of the shaming of men's standards is done by women. Even women that meet the standards join in.

Men that meet women's standards don't care if other men don't. If anything they're happy, because women having these standards eliminates some of their competition. Because of this lack of support from successful men, the men that complain just look like insecure losers.

.

AssistTemporary8422 · 2023-09-02T03:01:48+00:00

You know that women often get shamed for having looks and financial standards for their partners. Goes both ways. Its a touchy subject.

namey_9 · 2023-09-02T04:17:06+00:00

"is there any way to make those close to you understand the importance of having non-superficial standards?"

why would that be your or anyone's job? people value what they value, it's not your decision unless you're talking about yourself. You can't "make" people do much of anything.

It's odd to me to reject someone based on their sexual past if they don't have diseases or patterns of abuse or something you're worried about, but that's just me (and I have a relatively small and uninteresting past myself, for the most part). I don't care what you find odd or not odd and wouldn't shame you for it - it just seems a little small-minded or pointlessly insecure from my point of view, and makes you seem less attractive yourself. Oh well, right?

One thing that baffles me, though - how is sexual history not superficial?

Like... "superficial standards" according to whom?

It's your subjective opinion that some value is deep and another's superficial. You're acting like you're some kind of universal authority on the matter and it's weird.

It's not for you, ok. It seems superficial to you, fine. Don't date people you're not into, then.

Trying to "make" people value what you value and reject what you reject seems like a waste of energy and also seems weirdly controlling.

TheAvocadoSlayer · 2023-09-02T14:58:23+00:00

We all have preferences. But when you start throwing out condescending language and shaming, people aren’t going to respond very positively to that.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2023-09-01T23:42:29+00:00

why cant women get together and complain about men, why are you reading twox

DivineDaedra · 2023-09-02T00:55:55+00:00

I think it’s silly that people (read: nigh exclusively men) routinely get criticized for being put off by literally anything. Y’all should be allowed to have preferences and standards, it isn’t anyone’s business besides you and your potential partners unless you actually ask for advice.

Berating or degrading a stranger for something you find unattractive is obviously wrong but I think people can get needlessly defensive over people civilly discussing their own interests.

Edit: as for getting people to understand the importance of non-superficial standards, a lot of people end up needing to learn the hard way or at least via experimentation.

gntlbastard · 2023-09-02T01:03:37+00:00

In 2023, any expectations a man has is misogyny or insecurity. A good example of this are women who have successful careers. You ever notice that these women rarely have a personality outside of their jobs? Reject her and you are immediately labeled as being insecure about her job or education. Sorry but when you make your job or education your entire personality it makes for a very boring ass partner.

MyHeroMidoriya · 2023-09-02T02:20:40+00:00

You aren’t just realizing we live in a gynocentric social order are you?

Strange_Position4319 · 2023-11-15T21:21:52+00:00

I wouldn’t date a man that didn’t have what I already have and that is a bachelors degree, in shape from the gym, no tattoos, no criminal history and potential to increase income in the long run. I get a lot of shame from that but I don’t care cause they’re not me. You can have whatever dating standards you want! It’s okay, no need to change your standards and don’t listen to stupid people.

Dormouse_in_a_teapot · 2023-09-02T00:37:19+00:00

Tbh I don’t understand why anyone would volunteer that kind of information to begin with.

Ladies - just assume that men are ridiculous and insecure. No need to be forthcoming about your sexual past. If pressed, just lie.

Natt_Katt02 · 2023-09-02T04:42:27+00:00

But then why do you criticize women for their superficial standards? Aren't you doing kind of the same thing?

Phantom-H · 2023-09-02T02:39:19+00:00

there are even extreme cases like College Gangbangs.

Dude, could you talk about this more, please? I'm intrigued and want my daily dose of outrage.

Uglypostwall · 2023-09-02T00:57:09+00:00

Women are just jealous that man can age better so they trying to apply crab mentality.

Even I used to do same to guys because deep inside,I was jealous and mad at myself for wasting youth

TelevisionGloomy5458 · 2023-09-02T01:29:03+00:00

OP, what standards? Other than body count, which is against purple pill debate rules.

Rogue5454 · 2023-09-02T07:39:10+00:00

👁️👄👁️ I’ve never seen anyone just “out” themselves with their own post before. Lol

You’re talking as if you know what women even want (when you aren’t a woman) by even saying what they want is “unrealistic” & “superficial” standards.

Everything in your post makes sense as to why you were banned from those groups . You are a misogynist who tries to hide it by calling it “standards.”

Standard: “an accepted or approved example of something against which others are judged or measured.”

When people have standards they abide by them as well. So, when men think a women’s sexual past “devalues” them to be “datable” but they themselves have fucked almost as many, just as many, or more they CANNOT have that standard because they don’t abide by it themselves! & it therefore is, in fact, misogyny.

Also, just by having a girlfriend who speaks highly of you & whose parents love you doesn’t mean you can’t be a misogynist.

lolmastr13 · 2023-09-02T00:51:58+00:00

Can’t believe that jealousy subs exist lmaoooo

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-09-02T12:14:29+00:00

So a few things here. Women are definitely shamed for their standards too. Height is a big one… men act like because that’s something they cannot change, it’s immoral for women to have that standard. Same with income. Women get called gold diggers for not wanting a broke guy.

Second, while merely having standards should not be shamed, when you’re loudly declaring those standards to people who never asked and trashing those who don’t meet them, you are being an asshole and inviting shaming. It’s fine to not want to date someone for any reason, it’s not fine to diminish their personal value because you personally wouldn’t date them.

MxMaster9907 · 2023-09-02T16:58:53+00:00

Some “standards” are based on insecurities or double standards like the one on sexual past. The sexual past of a man or woman should not matter (within reason). Also, do you think gangbangs are extreme? Lol
Yes, men have the right to have standards
What were those “degrading” things? I bet they are not degrading at all

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Philip8000 · 2023-09-02T01:00:16+00:00

My own standards are fairly low. I'm not going to tolerate drug and alcohol abuse. No matter how attractive a woman might be, nothing is worth going through that sort of hell.

Unfortunately, plenty of people are shallow, and this goes for both genders. Standards vary from person to person, but neither men nor women have a monopoly for unrealistic expectations. I'm all right with standards; I have a much bigger problem with hypocrisy, like a man wanting a virgin/low body count girlfriend while his number is in the dozens, for instance.

James_Cruse · 2023-09-02T04:17:16+00:00

There is nothing you can say directly, that will favour you in the minds of any listeners that will “convince them” that as a man, having standards of women you’re in relationships with, is normal.

I’ve told family, (female) friends, colleagues that I have fairly normal standards for any of my girlfriends behaviour - they, despite knowing me for years, accuse me of being a misogynist.

Even if you’re saying, “if she does (this thing I don’t like) well, I won’t be her boyfriend anymore because that’s my choice as a person - I can leave the relationship if she does things I don’t like or agree with. I’m a human with free will who has the ability to choose where I spend my time and energy”

People HATE this - even people that know you well and like you.

My advice is: either keep this to yourself or couch it in humour or something light-hearted and actually funny if you’re going to talk about it to people who aren’t your girlfriend/wife.

obviously_anecdotal · 2023-09-02T11:11:58+00:00

This might sound counter-intuitive, but my opinion is that it's best not to announce your standards with dating. These are different than expectations in a committed relationship and it actually only ever hurts you to announce them while dating (especially if you're a man). Your standards only are open for criticism if you announce them to the world.

Maybe you don't want to be with someone with a promiscuous past. That's a reasonable standard, but not everyone may think so. Maybe you expect your partner to stay at home / full-time parent and homemake. Or maybe you expect your partner to hold down a career and contribute in that way. Both are reasonable on their own merit, but they may only be criticized if you announce them. This is why you date: to filter out candidates that don't meet your standards.

Men do have a right to standards, (nobody can take this away besides YOU). The only way we can enforce them is if we collectively decide anti-simp woman that don't meet our individual standards.

Aurelius-chfn09a · 2023-09-02T13:33:32+00:00

But why do people consent to be "shamed" in the first place. It should be clear that shaming language has no intrinsic power at all; it derives its power only by the consent of those it targets. But why should I give them that power? Why lose a moment's sleep over what some random individuals say about me? In the various debate forums I've participated in, people only resort to shaming language when they can't defend their position. It's a declaration of intellectual bankruptcy, masquerading as moral superiority. The way to win that game is to simply refuse to play it.

XBOXHEADS · 2023-09-02T18:28:15+00:00

You can't make someone do anything. The only person you can truly control is yourself. Women can shame all they want to but its up to you to either stand behind or abandon your standards just because some toxic woman doesn't agree with them. I never understood the whiny manosphere and the way they try to make women seem all powerful.

Whining about what women want (she can want whatever she wants but I don't have to acquiesce to ger demands), whining about not being allowed to be men (how does a woman stop you from being who you are?). Just whining on social media all day and inadvertently making women their gods; acting like they need women to approve of everything they do.

As if you can't live your life the way you want to without some random women's support of it.

Right-Possibility966 · 2023-09-02T23:55:20+00:00

It’s a problem when you hold a standard for yourself that you don’t meet. Such as not wanting a woman that has been around, but you have been around. Some try to use pseudo science to excuse their whoredom and it doesn’t make sense.

ilovegaryb99givmore · 2023-09-03T04:17:01+00:00

Literally go on any instagram reel related to dating and see how bullshit this post and these comments are, men talk about their standards all the time and are not ‘shamed’ for it my most people, you lot have more support than ever yet still claim that no one supports you. What even?

the_myth_of_syphilis · 2023-09-03T22:09:04+00:00

Everybody has the right to have whatever standards they want. Pretty much everybody has standards in relationships (both romantic and otherwise),and I would argue that it's healthy to be somewhat picky in the people you choose to surround yourself with. However, I think it's pretty immature when people decide to openly belittle or shame others for not fitting within their standards. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to date someone because of a "superficial" reason, but there is a big difference between politely rejecting someone because you are not personally attracted to them and using your own personal opinion as a measuring stick for another person's inherent value as a human being.

Title	The average man is shamed when he has standards. How to make someone understand that this is not cool?
Author	MrBrittle
Upvotes	123
Comments	368
Date	September 1, 2023 11:10 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/167m69v/the_average_man_is_shamed_when_he_has_standards/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-average-man-is-shamed-when-he-has-standards.1230587 https://theredarchive.com/post/1230587

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