It is valid that women dont want to engage in relationships with men anymore

modidlee · 2023-04-30T14:36:26+00:00

Lmao you must not go on Twitter and other social media platforms much. It’s full of women criticizing men that are just minding their own business. I saw one guy post a picture where he was dressed up in a suit. It showed his chest down. Women commented that they could tell by how his hands look that he’s not handsome. I saw another post where a woman was basically saying men with small penises are delusional. Guys said that’s body shaming men. Women said all the guys saying it’s body shaming are just mad that they have small penises. I’m not saying men don’t “bother” women. But let’s not act like women are these nice friendly angels that never antagonize anyone.

Gravel_Roads · 2023-04-30T13:10:49+00:00

Most beliefs that don't require other people participate in them are "valid". I'm not saying plenty of men don't suck, but there are sadly just as many women who suck, and my agreement only comes with the addition that it's also perfectly valid for men to complain about relationships with women who are self-serving, vindictive attention whores, because it's just as common as men being assholes.

TrueNeutrall0011 · 2023-04-30T14:18:06+00:00

Lol. Ironically this is why men don't care for most women either. This argument displayed no real empathy for men's issues and complaints. The interpretation of the situation seems to be men's actual issues is "men want a low body count and attractive women, plus they don't pander to us constantly, and they are evil predators!"

Why would any man want to date someone so out of touch? Most men understand women's needs far beyond even when has been listed here. We know all these things, we just aren't willing to give them for free anymore and especially not while being disrespected constantly.

This is why feminists appear as children. Doubling down on well known issues saying "me me me me me first". I don't think women who think like this understand that men know these are problems, but we aren't obligated to sacrifice ourselves further to deal with it, especially when the effort is unappreciated.

Women aren't "valid" to remove themselves from dating in a moral or justice based sense, it isn't balanced and "fair", they are valid to do so in that they have free will but really it's like haggling with a seller for a product worth pennies and they refuse to sell for under a thousand... Men look at this mentality and think jfc what's in this for me? Will the kindness and appreciation "trickle down"?

Most of us have learned that when we invest substantially in women we get treated with "you don't own me!!! You're abusive and controlling!" for having our own preferences. Not even enforcing them mind you but having them as dealbreakers lmao.

It's entitlement all the way down. Women want men to give up everything to pander to them. This post and POV is VERY indicative of the mainstream point of view and how modern women and feminists really feel.

It has nothing to do with men and men's happiness.

You'll notice the mindset here in OP's post too, it's about shaming and attacking men to break their resolve, make them think they are at fault and make them less confident in their decisions.

This is a mark of desperation. They then go on to make the false claim that it's women opting out. Women aren't opting out they just are realizing the can't get the men they want now that they are realizing older women have gamed them lmao.

The post is all fear based feminist talking points. I don't blame women for being confused when they hear this shit all the time from older women who are supposed to guide them but instead just sabotage them.

I rarely see older men sabotaging younger men. Women are vicious and cruel to eachother.

BobtheAxieManager · 2023-04-30T12:58:50+00:00

What evidence is there to show that women don't want to engage in relationships with men anymore?

Admirable_Spare797 · 2023-04-30T14:23:06+00:00

Wtf is this post and thread ? How does anyone reasonably challenge a view that OP obviously doesn't wish to change their view or accept any evidence to the contrary? This seems more like a venting or rant post to bash men then any kind of reasonable argument.

BullfrogKind5123 · 2023-04-30T16:26:01+00:00

No, there is as much toxic men as there is toxic women. You just don’t expose yourself to female toxicity because you don’t date them. I personally have never been involved with some random TRP king - most men are normal people.

wtknight · 2023-04-30T14:32:27+00:00

Now that being in a relationship isn't essential to the modern women's life they are starting to value a mans personality and character even more.

The problem is that women's behavior often contradicts this premise. They have sex with attractive men quickly whose behavior they do not really vet. Men see this and decide that they only need to be attractive enough to women for these women to have sex with and that they don't need to work on their character. Hence, women start seeing even more "bad men".

If women want men to change, then they need to stop rewarding attractive men with poor personalities with sex and instead choose to sleep with men whom they have properly vetted and who have good personalities along with being attractive.

This type of thing can best be done in a relationship, although it could be done with a FWB setup. But the problem with FWB setups is that they still facilitate soft harems and women sleeping with men who would likely never commit to them long-term, and thus they bother the men who actually would commit to these women.

saraimarsena · 2023-04-30T12:59:42+00:00

i don’t believe in generalizing all men off the worst actions and beliefs of some, which is why im in a happy relationship with one and have great male friends. men are absolutely capable of being kind, caring, protective, loving.

i do agree tho that there’s nothing wrong w some men being left out of the dating pool tho. unfortunately, a lot of people observe that there are men who are deeply misogynistic but still sexually successful.

if a woman (or a man) feels they’re better off without participating in the current dating market, they’re free to make that decision. i can understand the reasons why they would.

even those who still participate but are extremely picky, i don’t see much wrong w that. unless you’re going around saying “good men don’t exist” (they do) it’s probably better to hold out for someone who you believe to be a good fit for you rather than to settle w someone who you feel is a net negative on your life, or that you’re not attracted to.

Treacle-Flimsy · 2023-04-30T20:16:21+00:00

Men go out of their way to make woman's life worse

You are not that important for that to happen

Men criticize us

So do women. It's not okay to call a woman fat but it's okay to body shame men for literally everything. Manlet, small dick energy, etc... None of those things are censored and yet somehow men are bad?

Having a relationship with men is dangerous

The same can be said in reverse. When you enter a relationship you need to gamble if she even tells you the truth she finds attractive as 80% of men are deemed as unattractive, then if you gambled and went for the marriage, you're more than likely to get divorced and lose half your stuff. If you're a victim of domestic violence you are not taken seriously

Men don't stand up for our rights

So let me get this straight: You want men to stand up for your rights even though they are silenced and constantly reminded how awful they are and on top of that all their problems are not even addressed? Brilliant plan

Men add more struggles to women's life

And how exactly a woman adds easiness to men's life? Outside of sex, there's literally nothing

A lot of men aren't good people

So are women? I don't understand why you think women are these angels that can't be bad people.

In conclusion, men and women aren't that different, but all your statements are just a banter at this point. Women aren't selecting the best guys as you said, because otherwise there wouldn't be this many stories about "abusive ex" and shit, and there would be an incentive for a guy to actually act better, but since women value tingles more than their own safety, it's only her own fault

ComfortableOk5003 · 2023-04-30T22:10:03+00:00

You’re misandry is showing.

Sorry but this post should be deleted. It’s just a bunch of non-sensical man hating with no actual proof to back things up.

Saying majority of men are bad, majority of men make women’s lives worse…come on this isn’t even good debate.

As for the title, both sides see it as less of a good deal. Both sides are free to engage with the opposite less.

sharksville · 2023-05-01T14:35:09+00:00

Here we have a woman who blames men for all of her problems she is most likely responsible for herself alone, and then makes a hypocritical one side post that makes my belly ache out of laughter.

• Men don’t go out of their ways to make women’s lives worse. Some women already do that to themselves and other women. Men alone aren’t to be blamed

• Yeah men do criticise because they don’t want to be with a woman who doesn’t respect herself but expects others to do it for her. If men criticise you, it’s because you’re making unrealistic alterations to your body with unnecessary plastic surgery and putting yourself out there in a sexually explicit manner

• It’s also funny because a lot of women judge random men for having expectations and standards. Women will judge the crap out of a man if he prefers a slim woman over an obese woman.

• For the most part, women don’t really mind their own business but judge other women as well if they both wear the same clothing or shoes or same shade of lipstick, so forget about what a man wears.

• women think less of a man for a plethora of reasons, from not earning millions a year to not having the hot celebrity looks and a body like the young body building Arnold Schwarzenegger.

• Women are also a threat to men as well. Having a relationship with a woman can be a threat to a man as well. Take a look at Lynn Turner who poisoned both her husbands for financial gains. Take a looks at Stacey castor who did the same thing as Lynn Turner. Castor not only poisoned both her husbands for financial gain, but tried to pin the blame on her own daughter.

• Women in education also rape their own students and pose a threat to a man’s safety as well. Take a look at Will Smith and Johnny Depp and the women in their lives. Not only that, women are a threat to other women as well. Take a look at Amy Fisher and what she did to another man’s wife.

• Abortion isn’t a women’s right and are against it probably because they also have an equal say in the child that’s also his, despite the fact that it’s in the woman’s womb. Men aren’t against it as a way to punish women for having sex.

• Maybe if you’re upfront about it in the first place that you don’t want to get pregnant then he won’t get you pregnant. Don’t give him the impression that you’re okay only to later change your mind and choose abortion and then he’s against it and your go on like an idiot talking about “my body my choice”.

• Let’s also be real about how women don’t care about babies as well because if they did then they’d take pregnancies very seriously and learn everything from A to Z and actually be prepared for it.

• Men don’t need to care about babies/children by financial funding a kid that’s not his. As a man and father myself I care about the well being of my own kids. Yea I care about my nieces and nephews and kids of my friends, but that doesn’t mean that I should be the one sending them to school and financially funding them.

• Women (majority of them) don’t value themselves as people and value themselves as sex objects. Women will choose to do adult videos and do OF themselves and do all sorts of things to put themselves out there as sex objects. They themselves choose to have sex for money and defend it by saying that prostitution is the worlds oldest profession. So is being a mother, or being a doctor/nurse.

• If women themselves are objectifying themselves then yea a man will care about how many different guys a woman has slept with, how much do you respect yourself and what not.

• Men do care about the real things because a man will want to be with a woman who practices medicine or law over a woman who gets nude for the camera.

• Women also add struggles to a man’s life as well. More in fact compared to the man. A man is expected to earn enough money to have a mansion for a house, drive a luxurious car, pay for the woman on every date, treat her with expensive gifts almost all the time, send kids to private schools, and then at least once a year pay for the family trip to stay at the most expensive hotel after flying first class.

• A lot of women aren’t good people as well. I’ve already mentioned a few names above. Turner and Castor, both women controlling and viewing men as a source of income for their lavish lifestyles. One of them viewed her own child as bait.

• Gone are the days where women had realistic expectations of the man instead of just marrying them for financial gain. The husband dies, she get everything he owned. They divorce, she gets half of everything he worked for and provided for his family. There are some women who will appeal to the man and want him to propose so she can say yes, and then shift into a different gear and try take everything he earned by finding a way to quickly end the relationship.

• Women will realise how negative men can be towards them but won’t admit to their own faults that cause the men to be negative towards them. A woman will treat a man like a bank account but won’t admit to it when he has a different feeling about her. A woman will drive a man crazy and expect him to “just know things” and won’t admit to the fact that all the unnecessary drama could’ve been avoided had she been vocal herself to the man.

• Women will be the reason men have negative reactions to learns them, but won’t admit to the fact that they are the ones not adding any value to there own lives and no respecting themselves in the first place, claiming to be independent but then expecting a man to open the door for her and pull the chair out for her and then pay for all the drinks she had along with her dinner.

• Most women will complain about the men complaining about the women, yet will choose to do something that doesn’t add value to their own lives. They will complain how men will look at sex objects, and yet don’t help the case when they are the same ones objectifying themselves for the cameras.

• And in conclusion, these will be the same women who put all the blame on the men when in reality they should be putting the blame on themselves, not the men, act like they aren’t capable of doing anything wrong, and think that using themselves explicitly is the way to get out of a tight corner, only to come online later on and post it on the internet.

DumbWordsmith · 2023-04-30T15:04:49+00:00

I never see women thinking a man is lesser of value if hes slept around or not, yet women are dehumanized by men if they are promiscuous.

Being perceived to have lesser value as a long-term partner isn't the same as being perceived to have lesser value as a human being. Many guys don't care about promiscuity, so why not just go for them? Be open and honest. Young women have endless options anyway.

Men are usually mocked and excluded for other traits, most of them uncontrollable.

A lot of men are not good people.

A lot of women are not good people either.

Also, there are twice as many single men between 18 and 29, so the average woman definitely hasn't stopped engaging with men. Many are just sharing the most attractive guys and shacking up with more established men (cha-ching).

SecondEldenLord · 2023-05-01T13:05:07+00:00

Excuse me, but haven't you seen how many women shame men just for having preferences? If a man doesn't want to date a trans woman, he is transphobic, if he refuses to date a fat girl, he is fat phobic, if he refuses to date a black girl, he is racist, if he wants to date a much younger adult woman, he is a pedo. Men nowadays cannot have any preferences in women without being called whatever stupid name women come up with.

Straight_Plenty6244 · 2023-04-30T13:14:40+00:00

I know this is change your view but I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I wouldn’t want to date red pill men with those kinds of views. I’d rather make peace with being alone if those were my options. However there are some really good guys around that don’t follow trp movement. In real life I just don’t see rp values being reflected in couples and relationships. But it’s often what’s pushed online and generated a lot of traction and discussion

daddysgotanew · 2023-04-30T14:29:08+00:00

They don’t want to engage in relationships with non-hot men, correct.

Ask any hot dude with a six pack and a 200K a year job if he has any problem finding women that want relationships. He’ll laugh.

ZukeIRL · 2023-04-30T16:18:50+00:00

You had me until you said women mind their own business and don’t criticise men 💀

roger61962 · 2023-04-30T14:28:32+00:00

If this is your opinion, just stay clear of men.

Btw - why should a man stand up for YOUR rights or protect YOU?

If a war is in the men get drafted. So they have to protect you even if they do not want.

SillyMushroomTip · 2023-04-30T18:31:20+00:00

Women don't want to engage in relationships with men anymore

This is total BS. Girls literally will chase their abusive POS ex boyfriends around or find another one just like him and be like "Omg I lover him so much" then cry wolf about how he "used her"

Women are not walking out on the dating field like Men are.

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2023-04-30T13:10:03+00:00

I'm in a happy relationship with a good man. And I fully understand why a woman would choose not to date men. Hell, I know more than a few who do. They just don't make a song and dance about it.

volleyballbeach · 2023-04-30T13:39:17+00:00

Choosing not to date is valid regardless of the reason.

These generalizations you make about men are not. Yes, some men due these things, but not most. Some women due these things too.

A lot of men are not good people

Yep. But most men are good. A lot of women are also not good people either. Most women are good.

caption291 · 2023-04-30T13:42:16+00:00

Statistics are through the roof with how men can pose a threat to a women's safety.

You're taking for granted the safety 95% of men provide. Take that away and WAAAY more women die from starvation, malnutrition and predation than they do men.

Yet women dont judge random men on these things

Men aren't more judgmental than women...we just don't virtue signal as much.

Men dont stand up for our rights.

Men stand up for women's rights WAAAAAY more than women stand up for men's rights. It's not even remotely close.

In conclusion, now that women can have a choice

If men didn't stand up for women's rights, women wouldn't have a choice.

If your post was as true as you believe it to be, you wouldn't have made it.

Opening_Pattern_301 · 2023-04-30T15:57:17+00:00

Yep, it is completely valid.

Yet women dont judge random men on these things,

LOL,If you want to feel judged, date a woman.

I never see women commenting on what a mans wearing

LOL

I never see women ridiculing fat men online.

They do it in the outside world because they dont get penalized for it.

I never see women thinking a man is lesser of value if hes slept around or not

Yet the most common tactic women use to belittle men is to attack his ability to attract women, "incel, small dick, virgin, you get no pussy, i would never fuck you, manlet", it doesnt matter if you haven seen this when a lot of men have experienced it, men are also judged by women if they have slept around, is just that women arent penalized for it a men just let it slip.

Having any kind of relationship with men can be dangerous. Men dont protect us

Men only protect women who are precious and worthy of protection, no woman is entitled to it just because she exist contrary to popular narrative.

Statistics are through the roof with how men can pose a threat to a women's safety. Rape, murder, domestic violence, kidnapping, stalking are sadly a real threat for women

only rape and stalking are valid concerns but even then is not common and is not like you will be abandoned if you were to be a victim of it, the rest men are equal victims of it, domestic violence against men is underexposed or diminished, ie nobody says anything if a woman beats up a man, in fact he will gain a reputation of being weakling that cant defend himself from a woman, but if a man defends himself he will be severely penalized and labelled as a pussy who hits women, psychological abuse is also severly underexposed as men are just expected to suck it up or they arent real men, examples? women who purposefuly make men feel jealous and then label them as insecure if they say something about it "you re not a real man if you feel that", women who are condescending and constantly attack a mans masculinity under the premise that she is the higher value one just because she is a woman and way more examples that this would become a huge wall of text if i were to put them all.

regarding murder and kidnapping we re all equal victims of it, framing it as gendered behaviour is extremely disingenous, im from south america, i can send you videos and news of women dismembering other women alive to settle deals, i can send you videos of women abusing other women over a cheating husband (logic?), i can send you videos of women ganging up on one woman and beating her and abusing her, cutting her hair, undressing her, i can send you cases of extreme bullying of one woman or a group of women to another, i ve witnessed how mean women can be to each other, making up lies to destroy each other reputations, excluding them from a group, cyberbullying, your bias is obvious.

Men dont stand up for our rights. For example in the case of abortion a lot of men are against it simply as a way to "punish" women for having sex

First of all men who are against abortion do so because they think the baby inside the womb is a human life an it has as much right to be alive as any other, that same reasoning is the one women who are pro life use to support it, nobody supports it to punish some woman for having sex, although one could say someone who uses abortion as a replacement for anti-conceptives and wants it to be financed with states money aka the money of everyone including pro life people wont gather much sympathy.

second of all only 42% percent of men are against abortion, 28% for men between ages 18-29 , where are you getting your numbers from?

They dont want women to have control over her body.

No comment

And lets be real men dont care about a babies,if they actually did society wouldn't have so many absent fathers who dont give a fuck about their children.

Im speecheless, meanwhile there are plenty of stories of men lamenting because they are not able to see their kids due to a divorce, men lamenting because their wife, girlfriend aborted their baby without his consent, men extremely destroyed because they realized they raised a kid that they arent the father of, men who care about their kids do exist and there are a lot of them, is not their fault that deadbeats still get selected by women.

And if men really cared about babies/childrens wellbeing they would be going out of there way to adopt and donating to charities who help kids in need.

there are 10% more women donors than men, your attempt of framing it as gendered behavior is dishonest when it also isnt a concern to a great majority of women.

Men dont value women as people, they only value us as sex objects

fallacy, plenty of men value women as people, but they dont get as much attention for some reason, there are also a lot of women who only value men as success objects but we all just shrug and accept it...not to mention men can get severely penalized if they say something about it.

all men care about is our n count, our looks and our age,They dont care about real things of value like our career, our degree, our passions, our personality and experiences, its so objectifying and degrading to think men only care whether we are good to look at and that we are blank slate

first of all thats not everything men care about, n count especially isnt a corcern for many men, in fact men who care the most about looks or age dont tend to give much importante to n count since the only thing that matter is to have a trophy wife, it is an extremely incorrect generalization, second of all women do consider those things important too above all the things you mentioned, or do you think women give a heck about the career, degree, passion, personality or experiences dorky Billy, 5'2 Rakeesh, fat nerdy Josh, wimpy Carl, socially awkward Shane or shy Owen have? maybe when they are 30 and have no other options, the average woman would be below average if she were to become a man. Also i want to add, that there is plenty of men who pay attention to a womans career, status, degree and dont give a heck about n count, is just that those men dont give women the kind of love they want from men, they just love women the same way those women love men, from a pragmatic point of view and women seem to hate it for some reason.

CapsuleCorpLogo · 2023-04-30T16:18:43+00:00

“A lot of men are not good people”

How the fuck has this post not been removed yet? This is a rant worthy of being on TwoX.

KayRay1994 · 2023-04-30T14:42:13+00:00

While I agree with your general premise in that lots of men are frankly, unable to reach the relatively low bar women ask for and that many men aren’t exactly great people - i’m also not a fan of the combative nature of this post in that it feels spiteful in nature - the facts of this post are true, yes, but it has such strong “fuck all men” energy and in a way plays perfectly into what these same men say about women, feminism, etc - then again, i do understand where the frustration is coming from sooooo

AnyIntroduction3288 · 2023-04-30T16:07:27+00:00

There are a lot of good men out there. They aren’t “red pilled”, they aren’t on PPD, and they aren’t on manosphere spaces discussing how terrible women are and how to seduce women with problems.

abaxeron · 2023-04-30T16:08:18+00:00

In conclusion, now that women can have a choice in whether they engage in relationships

...they choose to engage in relationships, wait until prenup expires, and then divorce.

So quietly. So serene. So completely empathetic. So minding their own business.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2014/09/24/record-share-of-americans-have-never-married/st-2014-09-24-never-married-16/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2014/09/24/record-share-of-americans-have-never-married/st-2014-09-24-never-married-19/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2014/09/24/record-share-of-americans-have-never-married/st-2014-09-24-never-married-18/

Ohyarlysmiles · 2023-04-30T18:36:39+00:00

I mean this ranges from weakly true about minorities of men to flat out false regarding what women are looking for in a partner.

They aren't valuing character or personality more, they're valuing looks more.

The biggest evidence that they aren't choosing these traits comes exactly from the men responsible for the most violence against women: men that women choose to let into their intimate lives.

Skywater1604 · 2023-04-30T19:12:26+00:00

With smart men? With men who can think for themselves and form their own thoughts, opinions, and initiatives? No. Women do not want men like that.

Armando1917 · 2023-04-30T20:55:56+00:00

If men view women as sex objects…..I think it’s fair to say women just view men as walking ATMs

Scarce12 · 2023-04-30T22:51:40+00:00

Men criticize our bodies, our sex life, how we dress, what we post online

Women criticize men's sex lives all the time.

Women are trying to cancel MRA for decades now.

In fact TRP is just a genderflip of 2nd wave feminism.

This is a terrible argument.

AndyBrown65 · 2023-04-30T23:22:03+00:00

I hope you get the Therapy you deserve.

Updawg145 · 2023-04-30T23:41:39+00:00

The fact that this attitude exists (going in both directions) and is not all that rare, is just more evidence that modern (Western, primarily) culture is incredibly decadent and on the verge of collapse. There's zero chance this much hatred, division, and complete lack of social cohesion is sustainable without some kind of extreme intervention. Men and women forming strong bonds and raising families is as intuitive and intrinsic to being human as breathing air. The fact that we're this far gone (and trending worse every day) is bleak as fuck.

thedeadpill · 2023-05-01T00:23:47+00:00

Yet women dont judge random men on these things, for the most part women just mind their own business.

This is as far as I got. You're just wrong. Women are constantly judging men. The headlines of every major 'news' outlet perennially publish how 'men aren't keeping up' or how 'men are economically unattractive'. And then on social media, it's even worse; the first quarter of 2023, there was positively an epidemic of videos on social media shaming men for merely glancing at women in the gym, so much so that some fitness outlets had to post notices forbidding the use of recording devices.

If you can't see it, I don't know what to tell you. You're just fucking wrong, and blind to boot.

kaylieunlimited · 2023-05-01T01:55:42+00:00

this is one of the saddest things i’ve read in awhile. the way OP is saying this with their whole chest too. as a woman, i’ve met so many wonderful men who do stand up and protect women. i’ve listened to men and their struggles as well (yes, every HUMAN has struggles). yes, men can easily hurt women, that doesn’t mean all men want to do that. it’s truly sad that this is the lense you and so many others are walking through life with. and it’s not just women, many men now HATE women and are terrified to even say hi to them. we are human beings. human beings who have good and bad traits. human beings who all go through different struggles in life. human beings who want connection and to feel seen and safe and happy. having your guard up around men is fine, but this post is just sad. i truly hope you meet decent men one day and im very sorry for whoever was in your life who helped you think this way

megacope · 2023-05-01T02:01:28+00:00

You kinda sound like them incels everybody hates so much.

wtknight · 2023-04-30T13:30:05+00:00

[permanently deleted]

PMmeareasontolive · 2023-04-30T16:12:13+00:00

While I largely agree, there are questions that arise. There is the old, "are you selecting for these guys?". Which sounds like blaming the victim, but there is some truth to the idea that "if you keep getting the same results, maybe it's something you are doing".

Psychopathy is on the rise. Why? Because people love psychopaths because they are confident. It's probably the number one sought after trait in men. So expect a lot of beautiful psychopaths in the future as these men get selected for more and other get excluded.

Admittedly my view is clouded by personal experience; I've seen women who are good at choosing partners and I've seen women who absolutely struggle with it. I've been in support groups that included women who would be the first to admit "their picker was broken".

This is often supported by the female dating strategy of being inert in the courting process, waiting for the men who "love to chase". Men who love to chase are the men for whom the chase is a game, which they often win. Preselection at work.

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-04-30T13:45:13+00:00

I am fortunate to be married to a good man and I have a number of other good men in my social circle. Such men as you describe exist, sadly, and there are definitely misogynists here on PPD. There are also a number of seemingly good ones (purplish possum and Lift and Lurk come to mind). I don’t fault women for being wary, but don’t paint all men with the same brush here.

CosmicBioHazard · 2023-04-30T14:55:29+00:00

They dont care about real things of value like our career, our degree, our passions, our personality and experiences.

We care about this stuff the same way we care about it on a man. Men will celebrate your successes just like they’ll celebrate a man’s if you invite them to the celebration.

All men care about is our n count, our looks and our age.

If I’m seeking a woman to be my sexual partner, though, these are the parameters I’m looking at, because they’re pertinent to the success of our sexual relationship.

And lets be real men dont care about a babies, if they actually did society wouldn't have so many absent fathers who dont give a fuck about their children.

Absent, deadbeat fathers don’t hand out bibles at pro-life rallies.

I never see women thinking a man is lesser of value if hes slept around or not.

Maybe they should, then? Like he’s literally not able to make you the one and only person with whom he’s experienced the most intimate act you can do. I certainly regret being in that position. Why would you want a guy like that?

More housework.

I’ve never met a man who was necessarily opposed to doing all the housework, if he had to; unless he’s got a stay-at-home wife, in which case, he’s not the one with the free time for that.

Pressure to take toxic birth control.

From who? If you choose to put that stuff in your body to circumvent the risks from all the unprotected sex you’re choosing to have, that’s not really pressure.

More expectations to stay looking a certain way.

Nobody expects you to look a certain way? Is this what’s expected of you if you want to attract a man? Because I have to look a certain way to attract women. Guess we have the same problem?

Devourer_of_felines · 2023-04-30T15:21:45+00:00

Men constantly criticize us. Men criticize our bodies, our sex life, how we dress, what we post online etc.

I’d disagree with your definition of constantly there.

Yet women dont judge random men on these things, for the most part women just mind their own business. I never see women commenting on what a mans wearing. I never see women ridiculing fat men online.

Jesus that’s a rather blatant lie masquerading as an anecdote. Especially when the default insult women sling around online is “incel”.

They dont care about real things of value like our career, our degree, our passions, our personality and experiences.

…well duh who actually cares about theses traits of random strangers?

Whereas, women are doing so quietly.

The over abundance of women bemoaning “where are all the good men” suggests otherwise

RealAmericanWeasel · 2023-04-30T15:30:45+00:00

I am not sure what you are talking about. Nobody in life is immune from criticism. What does that mean to, “value us as people?” When is someone valuing a female as a person and when are they not? It’s not your decision what someone is interested in about you and why would you ever think that is something you decide? It’s completely out of your control. I wonder what you are expecting in life that you think your treatment from men is so beyond the pale. You’re not giving anyone anything to discuss, just a lot of opaque BS.

AbsolutelyNobody0 · 2023-04-30T19:36:45+00:00

If that's your image of men, then feel free to stay single, don't have kids, and die alone.

DancesWithMyr · 2023-04-30T14:58:46+00:00

Why is blatant misandry being entertained in the sub now

Roles reversed this thread would be shut down in 30 minutes

just_a_place · 2023-04-30T16:28:56+00:00

Perhaps that is because women seek relationships the way men seek jobs. Women do not want a relationship because she so loves a man anymore than a man so loves his job. Women's primary motivation for relationships is security. Specifically the resources and interpersonal support that comes with a relationship. This is why it's very similar to why men look for jobs. Men seek jobs for the security of it, for the salary and for the potential for further advancement in life.

Women very often treat men that they're in a committed relationship with with the same disdain and drama that men treat their jobs. Then they wonder why men resent it and start becoming critical of her.

You also seem to be naive about the differences between men and women in general.

Men are not women! What may apply to women does not always apply to men across the board.

"Yet women don't judge random men on these things"

No. You criticize and judge men on other things. Again, Men are NOT women. The world does not revolve around you and your point of view.

"I never see women commenting on what a mans wearing"

Get out of your bubble, just because you don't see it it doesn't mean it's not there. We see it all the god damned time! This thing you are doing right now, this solipsistic ignorance of men's point of view, is one of the main reasons we judge and criticize you and causes so much friction in relationships. A growing number of you women are just not capable of not seeing the world as revolving around your ego and your point of view.

It doesn't cross your mind that men are NOT the same as you, that we have our own world, our own problems, our own priorities, and our own separate shit that we have to deal with and that it does not all resolve around you.

"Having any kind of relationship with men can be dangerous. Men dont protect us, they are actually our number 1 predator. Statistics are through the roof with how men can pose a threat to a women's safety. Rape, murder, domestic violence, kidnapping, stalking are sadly a real threat for women and women are most at danger by guys she knows."

The solution to your problem here is simple: Leave men alone! Don't talk to us, don't interact with us, and when you have to just keep all interactions businesslike and professional. Nobody is forcing you to be involved with any man. Yes, we are "dangerous," and so is crossing the street, that's called life. We are not responsible for your safety and we do not owe you protection. That's what police officers are for.

"Men dont stand up for our rights."

Nobody is owed their rights - not in this life. You are just going to have to work or fight your asses off to assert them just as we do. Again, we do not owe you our protection, you are not entitled to have men on your side in any argument that fancies you.

"Men dont value women as people"

Funny how women never complain about being the first ones out of a burning building, sinking ship, or conflict/disaster area while it is men who are always expected and forced to saved the women and children, go down with the ship, or stay back and fight/rebuild.

Forgive us if we just roll our eyes, but you are complaining about not being seen as people by the disposable gender that is expected to sacrifice themselves for your sake at every turn.

"Men add more struggles to a women's life. More housework. Pressure to take toxic birth control. More expectations to stay looking a certain way. Pressure to be the perfect mother and wife."

🙄 Jesus fucking christ... Because running water, buildings, heating, paved roads, vehicles, ships, commerce, the internet, phones and the whole damned infrastructure to support your privileged ass life where you never need to even interact with any of the millions of men who maintain civilization is just so brutal and oppressive to you huh?

Nobody is forcing to you take birth control
Nobody is forcing you to even interact with men
Nobody is forcing you to have sex
Nobody is forcing you to do housework unless you wish to live in your own filth
Nobody is forcing you to look a certain way, you can look like the pigeon lady for all we care.
Nobody is forcing you to be either a mother or a wife.

"men seem to be forced out of the dating market kicking and screaming about it but claiming that women dont have any value anymore"

The only men being "forced out" of the market are those that never stood a chance to begin with. The only reason they're kicking and screaming about it is because, thanks to the internet, they now know what they're missing. In the past, these incels never knew what was out there.

As for the rest of us, who have been in the market for a while, the reason we are getting fed up with women is because sex is literally all that the majority of women bring to the table these days. So how the hell are you complaining about it when it is all that you offer? And since it's all that you offer you cannot complain that we will refine our own tastes and only desire the best.

But there is a problem, once sex is had and as men get older we eventually start wishing for more and since women do not offer more it becomes very easy to trade up. We dump women in order to get better looking women. Why? Because looks and sex is all that the majority of women ever offer. We say that women don't have any value because the one thing you do offer is very precarious and depreciates over time. You don't offer companionship or love. Women are not helpmates anymore! Therefore, if we cannot get a helpmate we will settle for a bangmaid.

gate18 · 2023-04-30T16:33:43+00:00

It is valid that women dont want to engage in relationships with men anymore

It's not true.

I agree that a lot of men are like you describe them but not all

AwesomeRocky-18- · 2023-04-30T19:06:17+00:00

Yes, I’m in college and so many women are opting out of relationships. They talk about growing old with their pets or female roommates if they don’t find an adequate relationship to be in. It seems that finding a male companion is becoming less of a priority like having kids because it’s more trouble than it’s worth for all the reasons op stated above.

EricFisherNo1 · 2023-04-30T19:10:56+00:00

Only women who don't like cock.

Soggy_Head_4889 · 2023-04-30T21:50:44+00:00

Men criticize our bodies, our sex life, how we dress, what we post online etc. Yet women dont judge random men on these things

We're like 3 sentences into your novel and I can already tell you live under a rock. Get off reddit, go outside, and live.

RealCaramelli · 2023-04-30T22:34:37+00:00

If that’s how you feel about men, you’re probably not emotionally ready to enter a relationship with a man. If a man felt this way about women, I’d say the same. Im sorry you feel that way.

angelicasinensis · 2023-05-01T01:38:29+00:00

Well, I get where your coming from, I do….but not all men are like this. I think that our toxic capitalistic culture has created perverse versions of men and women in some ways, but not all men are like this. My best friend (not my husband) is a man and is smart, sweet, kind and very smart- he spends his life gardening for a community to try and help heal the planet, he adores animals and small children. My husband does not give a F about how many men I slept with before him, he is kind and considerate towards our children and takes care of me when I’m sick, or really all the time, he is an asset in our home and allows me to stay at home with the kids while he slaves at work everyday. I think the issue is our greed driven, hyper sexualualized culture- men and women are being raised in less than ideal situations and this is being seen in peoples views and attitudes. I’ve met some shitty men and shitty women but I’ve also met some amazing STRONG, kind and gentle men AND women.

GrizzleGuts30 · 2023-05-01T02:45:42+00:00

most men don’t stand up for our rights

I live in Australia where the lives of women, the alphabet mafia and literally female sexual assault survivors are treated with reverence and grace versus those of 90% of men like myself. So no, men don’t have to support women’s rights in the west, especially when women are so vindictive and hellbent on ensuring that our rights are taken away and our existence is no longer acknowledged.

arvada14 · 2023-04-30T16:19:30+00:00

The biggest critics of womens bodies, clothing, amd even opinions are other women. Not men. Not a single straight man cares what you wear. I think men will tell you their preferences and you'll consider it criticism. If it hurts you that most men dont want to marry scantily, clad and/or obese women, you can change it. When women have preferences for tall men. Short men are screwed. The bar is so low yet theres endless complaining.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-04-30T13:20:05+00:00

Nope. Forget everything you said. It's clearly all our fault for not being young, naive, pretty, submissive and available enough, we clearly need our rights taken away from us and return to a strict religious patriarchy. Just let dudes continue to yell sexist abuse throughout the internet and advocate against our human rights, what are you, a feminazi or something 🙄

JustARichWhiteMale · 2023-04-30T13:37:02+00:00

They're only interested in dating men they think are worthy of being dated. When the societal expectation and financial shackles were taken off women, this is the end result.

Handsome, in good shape, wealthy. Just look at how popular 50 Shades of Grey is. Problem is, these guys are very rare.

The old system pushed women into relationships they didn't want to be in. The new system leaves them looking for men they may never find.

I still think the old system is better overall. It's nice having someone care for you, even if they're a sub-par mate. You have to consider what's good for society as a whole as well.

Our current trajectory is untenable. 30% of men have not had sex within the last year. Birth rates are plummeting everywhere. This needs to be fixed ASAP.

cmvmania · 2023-04-30T17:16:24+00:00

Men dont stand up for our rights. For example in the case of abortion a lot of men are against it simply as a way to "punish" women for having sex.

Yeah there is some truth to this. Because if we already have unlimited abortions then how are we going to weed out the one who really need and deserve it and prevent the "reformed hoe" from fucking around and aborting it from every "Chads that don't commit" while acting like a reborn virgin when she looks for someone to "settle down" with instead of becoming a single mom as a deserved consequence of her actions cuz thats the last type of girl I want to marry before I got divorce raped.

LingonberryGood3915 · 2023-04-30T18:32:51+00:00

basically, what you say is that grown women want to remain children, without any responsibility, dont want to be judged for poor behavior, and dont want to have to give any value. basically, they want everything for free and the privilege of being able to be immoral without judgment, and if they cant be privileged tyrants who receive the world without needing to give back, its not worth it when you can just continue to take advantage of men instead of reciprocal interactions

Maelas84 · 2023-05-01T09:51:56+00:00

This post is one sided. You don't think women do the exact same thing?

anon018274031 · 2023-04-30T13:09:27+00:00

It’s valid to do whatever is right for you.

I am currently not dating because of how many bad experiences I’ve had, but I am open to it in the more distant future because I see just how wonderful some of my male friends are and how much a partner like them could enhance my life (and I hope I could in return bring something to someone else’s life)

What you explained is only SOME men, there are plenty of men who are kind, supportive, respectful etc

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-05-01T02:02:25+00:00

Love how this rant got downvoted but if it was a rant against "modern women" the black and red pill dudes would be throwing gold and silver lol.

MisterDrac303 · 2023-04-30T14:03:21+00:00

You have perfectly described a conservative male in America

They don’t care about you other than if you can provide sex and treat them like their mother taking care of them while they continue to live life as a child with a job yet can’t take care of themselves and will most likely be physically and emotionally abusive. Feelings are weak “not all men” type of dudes

Find your ring community but it’s not the people you described

Jack-of-All-Mistakes · 2023-05-01T03:15:20+00:00

That's the funniest thing I've read on the Internet all year! Thank you!

Saitama1993 · 2023-05-01T04:40:12+00:00

Oh shoot, stumbled on FDS again

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2023-04-30T13:02:47+00:00

[permanently deleted]

wtknight · 2023-04-30T13:12:30+00:00

[permanently deleted]

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DragonflyAromatic793 · 2023-04-30T14:58:28+00:00

it doesnt matter if its valid or not everyone is free to choose. dumb question.

ExcellentNatural · 2023-05-01T01:01:46+00:00

All of that is true with the exception that women don't do these things. At least some of the things listed women reflect back at men. This is why instead of being all pissed up at each other we need to address the root cause of these issues which is Patriarchy.

Kliere · 2023-05-01T02:00:23+00:00

If it makes you feel any better, men constantly criticize other men too.

Caring_Cactus · 2023-05-01T02:50:04+00:00

People have their right to stick to their choices, what would make it not valid?

The only thing I would say to change is to be careful with some of these generalizations. It is too easy to have black and white thinking when it comes to getting to know an individual. We can either focus on reacting to others' lives or living our own life. Shitty people come in all shapes and colors.

anonymousUser1SHIFT · 2023-05-01T03:04:09+00:00

Men go out of there way to make women's lives worse.

Now that's a hot fucking take and I don't understand how it got passed the mods incel filter.

WhoseTolerant · 2023-05-01T12:09:04+00:00

In real life, I've seen far more women critical of other people than any man

Safinated · 2023-05-02T09:09:04+00:00

Yes, but people are always trying to get others to do things for them. Including via whining.

As long as it’s not law or exclusion we just have to live with it

samuelrw18 · 2023-05-02T16:20:09+00:00

I agree with you

Polina0138 · 2023-05-03T09:02:27+00:00

Just because you decide to have sex with a guy you're not married to means he owes you protection, respect, support, blah, blah, blah? Is that what you're saying?

Sweetheart, men don't owe a woman (or man for that matter), anything beyond common courtesy. And these days, even that is a stretch.

If casual sex results in an unplanned pregnancy, abortion, etc. it's not the man's problem or concern.

Sex does not obligate a man to give a woman anything more than the agreed upon price for her services. No tiki- no washee!

If you want all the good stuff, you have to be his wife. Sorry.

Title	It is valid that women dont want to engage in relationships with men anymore
Author	Illustrious-Line-996
Upvotes	24
Comments	458
Date	April 30, 2023 12:49 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/133oc6n/it_is_valid_that_women_dont_want_to_engage_in/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/it-is-valid-that-women-dont-want-to-engage-in.1217216 https://theredarchive.com/post/1217216

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