Men complaining in a free market where nature chooses will only fall on deaf ears

AtomicMonkeyTheFirst · 2024-08-20T23:38:19+00:00

I mean I agree with you, but do you not think exactly the same thing is true for women?

Cultural-Ad-8486 · 2024-08-21T19:33:15+00:00

The problem with your argument is that it sucks and doesn't correspond to reality.

Roughly speaking, the modern dating scene is not a free market at all, or even the semblance of one. And even if we do not take into account the serious legislative and moral norms that limit us. For most of the history of our particular species, Homo Sapiens, romance, so to speak, worked completely differently. For the most part, genetically we are still the same as we were 40-100 thousand years ago, long before the advent of modern culture, we lived in small groups and no one particularly had problems finding a mate. Everyone was good at something and life came from this.

No bullshit biological coding, alpha, beta and gamma males and all that crap.

Incels are in many ways a problem of the 21st century. Yes, there have always been lonely people, but now it stands out very much, especially in pro-Western cultural societies.

IdiAminD · 2024-08-20T21:44:07+00:00

This bargaining is pathetic indeed, but i would like to see the real free market with all social security turned off. That would be cool to see how it affects dating.

Eastoss · 2024-08-21T00:35:44+00:00

This isn't a free market. You say "nature chooses" but murder and rape are in nature but aren't much part of this market. Society is designed in a way that allows men's labor, presence and protection to be transferred to people and specifically women regardless of their contribution to society.

What's happening is women have a lot of pressure removed off their back so their "nature chooses" is dramatically altered.

ImpossibleJaguar2727 · 2024-08-20T22:52:23+00:00

I agree with most of what you're saying except this point here.

either adapt or be thrown aside

I can't just choose to be more confident, charismatic or interesting without having the experiences and positive feedback to reinforce those traits in my behavior.

I can't just choose to be taller, better looking in the face, have a nice physique as if those things were attainable by flipping a switch.

I agree that whatever complaints we have about the cards we've been dealt will fall on deaf ears, I just don't know that's there's much we can do about it.

Swaggyboi42069a · 2024-08-20T22:41:44+00:00

True. Women generally do not like to hear men complain about how hard dating is and generally will dismiss it. They also usually don't understand how difficult it is nor are they very interested in taking that into consideration. It's pretty similar to what wealthy people like to tell poor people when they complain about money / being poor

GladNetwork8509 · 2024-08-21T09:09:48+00:00

This is just about sex. It's not about finding a suitable mate or life partner. Clout and fame don't get automatically mean you'll get a healthy loving relationship, which is what most people seem to want. As a feminine presenting person I can attest that accessing sex with people is way easy for me than a masculine presenting person. Sex is just one portion of a relationship though.

chobolicious88 · 2024-08-21T09:55:21+00:00

Fully agreed.

Only complaint is that women effectively raised their power by complaining to the system as a group. They didnt exactly respect free market when they sought out rights that dont respect meritocracy.

I dont really know what implications that has for men but it is what it is.

peteypete78 · 2024-08-20T22:00:19+00:00

It's not a free market, men are not allowed to flex their power nature gave them (for good reason) but women are.

So when you have one side that is being hamstrung you will get complaints.

ktdotnova · 2024-08-21T02:14:42+00:00

One nit pick is that dating apps are indeed regulated or at least rigged against men (and people in general) so you buy their premium stuff instead of the free-tier stuff.

Ok-Piece7204 · 2024-08-20T21:55:03+00:00

first, there's no such thing as a true free market, all markets have parameters and variables that dictate to subtle degrees the dynamic between buyers and sellers, ppl who call dating a free market are just stroking their own ego for being advantageous under the current circumstances

whining is also not a bad action to take, if enough people whine about it, either the authorities change the system or the whiners force the authorities hand. how do you think auto-trust laws and unions came to be?

currently the solution is to just being mean to women, stop taking their shit and treat them badly whenever you can to put them in their place

AidsVictim · 2024-08-21T06:27:03+00:00

If we assume it's true that we do live in a dating free market, I will continue to criticize it and "whine". I don't think free markets are good (and usually just an illusion) and current society is producing dysgenic anti fertile outcomes. If this is the free market then it belongs in the dust bin.

purplish_possum · 2024-08-21T12:31:31+00:00

Markets are never free. There are always norms, rules, and regulations. These constraints can be imposed by tradition, by culture, by religion, by democracy backed by force, or by dictatorship backed by force.

Much of history is groups fighting (physically and politically) for more favorable market rules.

Whiskeymyers75 · 2024-08-21T03:12:49+00:00

I wouldn’t say modern dating has anything to do with nature. In a world before the internet, average guys married average women. Everything is so unnatural now.

Hot-Corgi-2457 · 2024-08-21T13:04:20+00:00

So what you’re really saying is… dating should stop being a free market then?

DeathcoreOnly · 2024-08-21T13:30:26+00:00

This applies to women too, but this is basically TwoX 2.0 so of course you only mention men to shit on them 🤷🏻‍♂️

daddysgotanew · 2024-08-21T19:31:26+00:00

Status is not king. Looks are. But if you have both? You’re unstoppable.

Most men have neither

NFT2024 · 2024-08-21T20:01:01+00:00

This just proves the women are employers and men are employee analogy, you are literally telling men to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps when the odds are clearly in their favor

Fluid-Astronomer-882 · 2024-08-20T23:54:02+00:00

Yeah, it's a free market. So it encourages greed, inequality, and toxic behavior which is bad for society. The worst kinds of people, like narcissistic people and psychopaths are the ones that win in the dating market. If you think people are not going to complain about this, then that's delusional.

SaBahRub · 2024-08-20T23:01:19+00:00

Well, they are trying to get laws changed and have had some success

codgas · 2024-08-21T10:21:18+00:00

You used to need men to hold up society. The way you used to get men to do that was by making sure each men had a family, thus marriage was created. It was the best way to get men invested in a society, a family or the promise of a family eventually.

Today a small number of men get a large number of women thus, a lot of men have no reason to be invested in society.

Technology has made this more possible than it was before, with its help women are able to do a lot of jobs that before could only be done by men Not all though I'd say, some not even because they can't but because they really don't want to.

If things keep heading the same direction you'll get more and more men giving up on their society, some quietly, some revolting.

Technology keeps evolving, so maybe it can make up for that, who knows for sure? Seems like a race to me.

So sure, you can say this is what happens when everyone has the most freedom, I won't argue with that, and freedom is always good right? It's as you say "natural". Let's not think about the consequences of what's "natural" then.

Personally I just think it's a shame the amount of lonely people out there, and no one individual owes anyone anything, but as a society more empathy should be shown and steps should be taken to minimize this.

wangqing97 · 2024-08-21T11:40:38+00:00

This isn't a free market. Nature isn't choosing. Welfare states and dating apps, women's rights, the me too movement, laws dictating gender relations. None of them exist in a free market.

Evening-Barracuda740 · 2024-08-21T07:59:06+00:00

Nature? I think you're underestimating the hold that technology has on influencing ones decision making.

BadMuch2033 · 2024-08-21T02:45:18+00:00

This reads like a dude who's labor is worthless. Why are you applying economic principles to dating?

lastoflast67 · 2024-08-22T01:23:12+00:00

Housing, food, luxuries are all things people fight over to attain. Why is a relationship any different?

The irony OP is it is actually different as housing, food and a lot of luxuries are heavily regulated by the government. Moreover even things with low gov regulation have high social regulation. There are few markets where there is not some force acting either within or outside of it to maintain its health.

The reason is that every market that it totally void of regulation or agreed upon protocol, like the dating market, just devolves into a race to the bottom where everyone looses.

Remarkable_Low7349 · 2024-08-21T07:10:35+00:00

I'm a tall, good looking, and socially adept dude with nice hair and an athletic build that got cucked by a health problem. Nature and biology weren't inherently positioned against me prior to this little deus ex machina. Before then, I was working towards building value and accumulating results to show for it, which is a polite way of saying had a lot of sex with some fairly attractive and thick women. Now that I'm slowly making progress, I plan on devoting a portion of the remainder of my youth to exponentially rebound in order to get it all out before I'm old, since it becomes weird by then. Still, I'm going to be honest and say that I sympathize with incels—because being a king who was usurped, by some invisible devil-ish force of all things—isn't that much better.

Upset_Material_3372 · 2024-08-21T13:21:55+00:00

It isn’t a free market if women still benefit from men societally, an actual free market look far different and likely less moral.

berichorbeburied · 2024-08-20T21:38:52+00:00

It’s not actually a true free market.

It’s still regulated.

It being regulated.

Shows bias.

A bias can be a contention for complaint.

In a true free market

Sexual dynamics. Relationship dynamics. Etc

Would look way different.

So your post isn’t even logically consistent.

You should’ve just made your post say “suck it up. You can’t/wont change anything. Adapt or starve”

thedarkracer · 2024-08-21T05:03:06+00:00

If that is true, then a woman who is supposed to be supported by the state while being a single mother due to many times her own bad choices should do it on her own but the other taxpayers have to foot the bill. Is this your free market?

The reasons men complain is bcz women lie. They lie that personality matters for getting laid which it doesn't. They purposefully choose men already taken or higher ups which have a higher tendency of cheating and then blame all men. If women want to not choose those men, it's fine but they shouldn't reap the benefits due to those men such as the ones who fuck themselves up in war or get life threatening injuries due to dangerous jobs and such. Do everything yourself.

Psyteratops · 2024-08-21T03:38:22+00:00

It’s not a market.

Savings_Builder_8449 · 2024-08-21T10:17:03+00:00

Its hardly a free market women are subsidized by the government taking taxes from everyone.

Naebany · 2024-08-21T13:21:25+00:00

What you described is basically what red pill says. It is what it is, you can complain but that won't change anything. If you want to matter then you have to play by it rules. Gain status and attract mate or die trying. Or don't do anything and be alone. That's your choice.

ta06012022 · 2024-08-20T23:32:23+00:00

whether men like it or not, you know the truth about the guys that get around the most in your friend group. Because they have status. Pure and simple - status is king and the ultimate signalling tool

Status is only really meaningful when it crosses over the threshold and becomes fame. You can have status in your school/frat/career, but most status is highly localized. It’s beneficial in a specific setting but not in general. Fame, where you’re widely known at a national or global level, is a different story. But “just be a wildly successful and famous outlier bro” isn’t meaningful advice.

Most of the guys I know who do best with women are guys who do well on dating apps, where status means nothing (unless you’re famous, which they’re not). They do well because they’re attractive and women swipe right on them.

The one exception is my one friend who probably has the highest count (has to be well over 100). He’s mediocre looking and doesn’t do well on dating apps, but he has more game in a bar or club than any guy I’ve ever met. That and he goes for women who are similarly mediocre. Dude has no status at all, but tons of game and realistic standards.

Sure-Vermicelli4369 · 2024-08-20T23:18:56+00:00

Men aren't really complaining, we're just opting out and finding fulfillment in life in other ways.

So some women are going to have to go it alone as things continue to get economically worse to try and survive on a single income.

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PurplePillEric · 2024-08-22T12:02:59+00:00

Welcome to the redpill

budgetmexican · 2024-08-23T01:09:18+00:00

You literally have a red pill take and then also ask why men are here talking with women, it's because the women refuse to acknowledge the truth that mate selection is competitive and for men looks money and game are the ways to get there.

Technical-Minute2140 · 2024-08-23T07:01:38+00:00

I can understand all of that and don’t think any of that is a a bad thing. I don’t think that means I can’t be frustrated, bitter or depressed at my inability to adapt, like you say we should. (With the caveat that that anger, bitterness and depression doesn’t turn into woman hating, which it so often does for too many dudes)

That isn’t me saying I’m entitled to a woman’s love or should be given it, I’m just simply upset I’m not good enough to receive it and don’t know how to be. I can’t press a button to immediately be more confident or know what to say to further conversations and not be boring, if I could I would press it a dozen times.

obviousredflag · 2024-08-21T10:20:42+00:00

The error you make is to think that women are choosing in relationships and that all women could choose a top % man. People pair off into relationships with their equals. The top 10% of men does so with the top 10% of women, the bottom 10% of women does so with the bottom 10% of men.

Mutual mate choice. Assortative mating.

"but...but.. all women just date Chad", no, 63% of young women are in committed relationships, 70%+ of women 30-45yo are in committed relationships. Unless there are 63-70% Chads, this is impossible.

Pola_Lita · 2024-08-20T23:43:05+00:00

Its literally biologically coded into women over millions of years of evolution.

Biological coding isn't nearly as strong as social limitations. Watch how the entire man/woman equation changes as women become truly as empowered as men.

Still, I definitely agree with your current estimation.

Cute_Gur_3173 · 2024-08-20T21:40:09+00:00

You know, it's like complaining that the prices in the supermarket are high.

Yeah no shit. How about you do something about it then? Stop buying shit. Live frugally. Organize protests. Vote for someone else.

But nah, too lazy for that, so complaining takes the lead, and we never get anywhere collectively.

qwertyuduyu321 · 2024-08-21T10:45:56+00:00

I like how it’s mostly men who deny the fact of the (relative) freedom we have in the current dating economy. I guess it is a very tough pill to swallow that Mother Nature rejects you and not “technology, bro”.

MaterialOk6309 · 2024-08-21T04:37:27+00:00

Haha, such superficiality is one of the main problems of RedPill guys.

random_user00098 · 2024-08-20T21:52:02+00:00

Stop Dating and become a donor.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2024-08-21T16:23:07+00:00

We've been saying this to the guys on here for years, but they will never listen, You can't argue or debate your way into attraction, It's simply there or it isn't. Ninety nine percent of the conversations had on here are pointless. The best thing you can do as a man in today's dating world is Is to get in the best shape you can and try to raise your social status, whether that be by becoming somewhat famous or well known locally. Or using your status as a western man to go overseas. The bottom line is, the rules and the standards will never change, As you said, men must simply adapt or get left behind

Title	Men complaining in a free market where nature chooses will only fall on deaf ears
Author	Upstairs-Calendar-52
Upvotes	28
Comments	439
Date	August 20, 2024 9:27 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ex7kg6/men_complaining_in_a_free_market_where_nature/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-complaining-in-a-free-market-where-nature.1527835 https://theredarchive.com/post/1527835

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