Men will never go back to what they used to be for good reason

AutisticRats · 2026-06-04T18:53:37+00:00

What is the debate? Gender dynamics should go in the bin. People can focus on improving their own lives and learn to be honest with each other. If they find a loving partner, good for them. If they don't, that is fine too.

emmarie1023 · 2026-06-04T19:06:07+00:00

I would not want to be with someone who thought I was more virtuous and moral than themselves.

Do women really want that? I definitely prefer to be seen as an equal, flaws and all.

I think the part you’re forgetting about “grandma not really loving grandpa” is that grandpa probably didn’t live her either. throughout history most marriages did not contain love. Many many men have married women for convenience and sexual gratification, while having very little respect for her. Sexual violence has been a normal part of relationships forever. As recent as the 60s there were ads of men hitting their wives to discipline them. In the US rape within a marriage only became a crime in the 90s. Also there’s been a “joke” of men hating their wives for decades, just look at any sitcom.

I think this has honestly been the best time for dating/relationships for both genders. You are able to survive as a single person and *hopefully* the only people (men and women) who are entering relationships are doing so because they genuinely love the other person.

chamomilecloud · 2026-06-04T19:00:35+00:00

My grandfather is a rapist and in the culture my family is from, they expected a woman to marry her rapist. So I am not really sure what exactly my grandma was supposed to do other than build a life with her rapist out of survival?

When women hear stories about their older generations of men in their family beating, marital raping, cheating on their wives etc., are women supposed to mindlessly trust that modern men will not be like this?

Most women do not give a shit about changes in men, and the only change we perceive is that retards are dropping out of dating, and the normal men are carrying on as per normal scheduled programming.

LadyMoustache · 2026-06-04T20:17:40+00:00

You're essentially telling them that women are capable of feigning love for an entire marriage and having a whole ass family with a dude they don't really love for some perceived benefit.

You're a moron if you believe that the men didn't know this. It was taboo to talk about it so they didn't necessarily tell their kids, let alone their grandchildren, but that doesn't mean the couple didn't know there wasn't any love between them. It's their moronic grandkids who think because grandma and grandpa never complained, that they were happily in love. The ones who are being misled are the young (manosphere) men who believe in friggin fairytales that literally never existed!

Flightlessbirbz · 2026-06-04T19:27:51+00:00

“Because great grandma couldn’t support herself in a society where women didn’t have equal rights and had to tolerate an abusive marriage, women cannot be trusted,” is certainly an interesting way to spin the narrative.

I also do not understand how you’re claiming in one paragraph that women paint marriages in the past as negative for women, then in the next that women want men to go back to “what they used to be.” Women, except for those who are delusional about the past, definitely do not want that.

You should be cautious of women, just as women should be cautious of men. The problem is that men are able to accept men’s humanity without vilifying all men, but women being human = women bad. Too many men seem incapable of viewing women neutrally, and this has been the case for all of history, it’s nothing new.

Prior-Impression-871 · 2026-06-04T20:19:42+00:00

Well what do you think this teaches men that believe that message? You're essentially telling them that women are capable of feigning love for an entire marriage and having a whole ass family with a dude they don't really love for some perceived benefit

You think grandpa cared it wasn't love? Lmao. He had a bangmaid at home, that's all. It was a great deal for him, and he loved it

NiaMiaBia · 2026-06-04T18:58:53+00:00

“The sexual revolution and 304 phases as they called it opened men's eyes to the fact that women can be equally lustful and superficial as men.”

———-> Of course we can be lustful and superficial, TF. We’re actual humans that are capable of all sorts of things. Not sure why anyone would think otherwise.

———-> I personally don’t care if men go back, forward, or sideways.

fiftypoundpuppy · 2026-06-04T18:53:21+00:00

I like that your takeaway is that women feigned love instead of men not giving a shit how they felt as long as they "submitted" and obeyed.

Do you think the men in the most oppressive, patriarchal cultures today believe their wives "love" them?

The "kinds of guys getting the most women" are a combination of looks/extroversion/low neuroticism. I'm not sure why this is supposed to be some sort of groundbreaking, earth-shattering revelation to men. Where are all the women threatening to "drop out of society" and remove the rights of men just because they like young, conventionally attractive women? That's right, no where because in reality the male ego and entitlement make them the emotional ones.

It's pretty clear that men are the ones who are angry, and this is a weird post to make in light of ::gestures vaguely to everything:: Women understand men because the male opinion and gaze is baked into the culture itself. It's men who are in the "anger phase" per your own flaired pill. All the talk around how "angry" women are is just classic male projection/deflection/DARVO.

_HighJack_ · 2026-06-04T22:21:59+00:00

Good? Men should change. Women did! They wanted careers and bank accounts and shit and they got em. If men want relationships, maybe put the work in. Watch rom coms. Read girl dating magazines. Learn to cook. Go to therapy and learn how to help others manage their emotions. I’m serious lol. Women picked up a bunch of new skills in just a couple decades, and I think men haven’t kept up.

YveisGrey · 2026-06-04T22:19:45+00:00

It’s sort of a myth that people in the past thought women were more virtuous. That really depends on the time and place there is plenty of ancient literature accusing women or being immoral and wanton that’s the crux of many Abrahamic religions

And who said granny was feigning anything? A lot of older couples didn’t actually like each other but stayed out of duty both men and women.

cb8585b · 2026-06-04T19:31:10+00:00

What is the different mindset exactly? It truly amuses me that you believe men are having original thoughts and revelations.

And what makes you think love was being feigned ?

ThatBitchA · 2026-06-04T19:23:06+00:00

I don't think women are mad. I don't think they even care.

I think women are laughing at men who whine about not being picked.

Women have always known that other women can lie, cheat, steal, etc. It seems like men are discovering this and acting like it's so undiscovered secret. It's not.

Men aren't chosen for survival anymore. You'd think men would be happy. But apparently, some of them were just itching to grow up and have dominion of some woman.

Tess27795 · 2026-06-04T22:46:37+00:00

Great grandmother went a whole marriage hating her husband? I am sure there were instances. Let me tell you are scenario. A man married a woman for her family's money. She was naive and despite some warning from a few friends and family, married him anyway. She was happy for a year and let him set up a company with her money.

He eventually lost all of the money she gave him and was very angry when she would not give him the last little bit she had managed to put aside. Unfortunately, she never went for a divorce because in those days you did not. They were both miserable together.

Then there were the other people I know about. Many were happy couples. It was not so hard to be broke in those days. No one had phones, or cars, or really much in the way of luxuries. They used to buy bags of flours with pretty designs on it, to sew children's outfits. It was not easy but at least they had each other.

These days, we get divorced if you are in the first scenario.

Viewing someone as equal, also means you can accept that they are equal but different. Do we lie less? I am not sure. Are we better people? Some are. We should be evaluating people on who they are, not just gender.

The present situation with women and men did not happen in a vacuum. However, if your approach is to say, it's all their fault, you are missing something.

Odd-Help6890 · 2026-06-04T18:47:22+00:00

Women today are also more likely to be single than women in previous generations, yet this is rarely acknowledged on this subreddit. There has also been a noticeable increase in the number of women identifying as femcels compared with a decade ago.

I am sceptical of claims that all women who say they are happy being single have completely opted out of dating. In many cases, if an attractive, successful, and genuinely interested partner came along, some might reconsider their position.

badgersonice · 2026-06-05T03:07:19+00:00

Women seem to be mad about how modern men have a different mindset towards them than men of the past

lol where on earth are you finding these modern women mad that modern men are not more like they were 70 years ago? 🤣

Seriously, what???? Where these women sad that they can’t get smacked on the ass at work and then told to “cool it, toots” when she objects?

Like… did you read all the red pill whining that women today aren’t more submissive and obedient like their grandma, then flip the genders in your head and forget you did that? I’ve seen dudes whining that modern women are terrible compared to their grandmas… but I have not seen any women whining the opposite except frigid old conservative talking head idiots on Fox News.

This whole post seems way more like something someone like Anne Coulter or Phyllis Schlafly put in your head than it does any kind of modern young women zeitgeist.

wideHippedWeightLift · 2026-06-04T20:46:48+00:00

Where do you see women wishing men were like they "used to be"?

AchingAmy · 2026-06-04T20:43:42+00:00

More women are single, hypogamous, or dating each other than at any point in history though. So those men who think women would just do the same of dating for survival are not looking at the facts. Also, women had to rely on men in the past. It was literally written into law at one point: look into the laws of coverture. When marriage was the only way a woman could legally survive, yeah, obviously there would be a lot of women who didn't marry out of love but did so literally for survival. The difference now is that many women no longer need men to survive. We can work, we can get educated, we can own our own property now(we couldn't do any of that in the past, and that's what you're gleefully ignoring.) So, that naturally means less women are partnering for material benefit today. Well, at least in cultures that have had feminist gains. There are, ofc, some countries where women are forced to be dependent on men still.

Regarding the kinds of guys women are getting with: you're assuming the unchosen guys would be any better. considering how prevalent sexual coercion from men is, why do you think they're any better? A lot of women are waking up to how prevalent those behaviors are. It's why many choose to remain single, many are exploring their sexuality to see if they could date people other than men, resulting in more Gen Z women who are LGBTQIA+ than any previous generation. Considering the rates at which Gen Z men are single compared to Gen Z women, one must wonder if it's because the partnered Gen Z women are partnered to each other at higher rates.

Women seem to be mad about how modern men have a different mindset towards them than men of the past

Nah, dude, we aren't mad about this. Why would we want to be viewed as men's property again? That's how men of the past viewed us. But considering how many men report sexually coercing women, men's attitudes towards women don't seem to be much different than in the past, so I do wonder why you think modern men have a different mindset

EmpressJJ · 2026-06-04T23:34:32+00:00

"Perceived benefit" 😭 If you can not comprehend that 50 years ago, women werent allowed to work, educate themselves or literally leave the house, then please don't open discussions around such topics you clearly misunderstand women's rights and you obviously do not understand how women have lived the last 20.000 years.

If you need concrete examples pls take a look at the current middle east/asia. I literally also just played a game today with a quest where a woman was only allowed to leave her room to go on a stroll for 45 minutes and was not allowed to pursue the education she wanted, it was literally reality for women to be marriage/breeding stock to whoever takes her, to either strengthen bonds or even get money by the other family you know? People basically sold off women and then belong to their husband.

Altruistic_Look_7868 · 2026-06-04T21:47:21+00:00

I'm glad. Having a relationship or wife or girlfriend is not a reward for fulfilling basic adult responsibilities. Men have been entitled to women's domestic and emotional labour for far too long.

TheColdWoman · 2026-06-05T14:51:06+00:00

None of you have read Jane Austin and it shows. My original background is archeology, and history remains my first love. I've spent years reading - for fun - scholarly work regarding research into the ordinary man and woman and that always always always involves discussions of family formation. History isn't limited to great men and big battlers (although the technological advantage of the longbow is also an interest).

Pride and Prejudice describes with perfect clarity the types of marriages that resulted when men and women were compelled to marry by society. Yes, I do include men in that because a bachelor would be treated with some social suspicion even though they could live independently.

Bennet and his wife - Bennet became infatuated with his wife who was beautiful, relatively poor to Bennet, and dumb. It was a stupid marriage. Bennet enjoyed bonking his wife, but grew incredibly tired of her.

Jane/Bingley & Elizabeth/Darcy - smart women marrying smart men for love but also for consideration of personality and quality.

Charlotte/Collins - a marriage of no love but merely pragmatism. Charlotte was old (27!) and mid. Her family was panicking she'd be a financial burden the rest of her life. Collins was dumb, stodgy, obnoxious, and egotistical but had landed a comfortable spot and would inherit a small manor. He needed a wife and showed up to literally pick one of the Bennet sisters because "they'll do." No love. Maybe, in the end, some fondness, but nothing else. Charlotte did her duty but also avoided Collins at every chance she could, all for a warm fire, her own establishment, and some type of respectability.

Kitty/Wickham - Kitty throws everything away at 16 and runs off (but does not marry) a dashing loser/user Wickham. Not only is SHE wrecked, but she almost wrecks the marriage prospects of her sisters. She is MADE to marry Wickham, because she's ruined. They are miserable but stuck together.

The Other Bennet Sister does an excellent job (although modern) of explaining what a mid woman with no fortune faced as well. Poverty, dissolution, social outcast, and an object of pity. Jane Eyre is also a good example of what happens to a single woman without money trying to make her way financially.

Sure, these are books with much drama. I doubt there are that many rich brooding men with insane wives in the attic, but the social issues are DRAWN FROM LIFE at the time and that's why the books really hit - both when written and now. And they are utterly alien to the modern English woman or American woman.

Firstly, your mate choice was VERY restricted for men and women. Family really controlled who you married. And no father (or mother) was going to agree letting their daughter marry a loser like Wickham (thus the elopement). The lord's son wasn't going to marry the scullery maid. And men had to show some kind of success. He had to have a business, a career, a way of supporting a family.

Looks mattered less (for men) for securing a wife, but as is clear from Darcy, women still went crazy for that tall dark broody shit. This also went the other way, too, as Collins shows. Even if you had a little money, that didn't mean you'd get a pretty wife. And no you couldn't count on love.

Second, marriage was far more of a duty. And shit, look at how that duty is so emphasized in the marriage vows - which have existed since at least Tudor times. But if you picked badly or your family did, oh well, just deal with the fact your husband fucks around and your wife locks the door to her room or just lays there. Divorce was very difficult to get. It's why men ran off quite a bit. You are stuck together and make it work.

Now, as we've moved into the last century, the 20th, women and men have a lot more agency over who they marry. And women could independently scrape out a living if she did not marry. Love mattered more. But divorce was still VERY difficult to get out if you chose badly.

So were there love matches? Sure. Both my granddads had love matches. But my parents were forced to marry because he knocked her up before abortion was legal. And it was bad bad bad news, although I wouldn't have existed otherwise. There were absolutely marriages of convenience on both sides. He often was forced to marry to get access to sex.

Nowadays though, men should be far more confident that a woman actually loves him when he marries. Same the other way.

I don't want men to go back to the 50s. You think they were eager to marry? LMAO. Men have always wanted to "spread their seed" shit. All that ball and chain shit comes from the 50s and before. Men have made it clear that they need to be chased down and forced to marry, so this nonsense that they want to "play the field" now? Same as it has always been. It's just few men got access to sex without marriage.

I think it'd be just as bad to marry someone who is only marrying me to have sex regularly as for a man who is marrying a woman who merely needs him for a paycheck and place to live.

But societies had a different view of marriage before.

I'll take my modern husband. I'll take him holding me close and telling me he loves me after so many years.

LaFrescaTrumpeta · 2026-06-04T20:49:52+00:00

gotta love referencing how so many women of the past didn’t love their husbands because they didn’t really have a choice in marrying them, just for your thesis on that thought to be “when boys today hear that they realize women can fake love for a lifetime for some perceived benefit.”

good lord, fam, idek whether to begin with how wildly tone deaf and transparent that focus is (would be curious to hear your thoughts on idk how every girl feels when she first learns about how violently oppressive and misogynistic human history has been to women), how you managed to acknowledge the lack of choice in those cases just to reframe it in the end as “faking love for perceived benefits,” or how no i’m not convinced that is the automatic inherent takeaway boys would have when confronted with that history, the more rational takeaway is that women don’t have to fake love for lifetime just to survive anymore and relationships today, where women have more choice and agency, are significantly less likely to involve fake love. when it comes to dating impacts on men, the tradeoff of women’s rights and agency is losing quantitity/access/likelihood of getting a woman who can never leave you even if she secretly wants to, in favor of gaining quality/genuine commitment/likelihood of your woman actually loving you.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2026-06-04T19:52:47+00:00

Men have never had a problem fucking women who didn’t want to fuck them, or preventing women from doing what they want

So much so that we have to have laws forbidding them from such

The only thing preventing us from going back to that is wealth and prosperity, because the majority of men would be fine with it otherwise

ta06012022 · 2026-06-04T22:59:34+00:00

Even without the apps men can still see the kinds of guys are getting the most women and the dating app stats just reinforce what they can already witness.

You mean men can see the kinds of guys who are getting the kinds of women most men want. Most women are average and are with average men.

Present-Afternoon-70 · 2026-06-04T19:14:27+00:00

Women want equality and have sexuality = mens feelings are hurt.

Wonderful logic.

PandaTaco90 · 2026-06-04T19:38:03+00:00

Men will never be like the men before because yall are too scared to talk to women and haven’t developed any social skills. The men who are interesting, funny, and have social skills will still continue to date.

Solondthewookiee · 2026-06-04T18:49:13+00:00

You're essentially telling them that women are capable of feigning love for an entire marriage and having a whole ass family with a dude they don't really love for some perceived benefit.

Uhhhhhhh who told you this was exclusive to women?

Even without the apps men can still see the kinds of guys are getting the most women and the dating app stats just reinforce what they can already witness.

No you can't, because the "majority of women going for the same small percentage of top men" is bullshit. You see what you want to see.

The sexual revolution and 304 phases as they called it opened men's eyes to the fact that women can be equally lustful and superficial as men.

I love how many red pillers' Joker moment is when they realized women like sex and hot guys.

Women seem to be mad about how modern men have a different mindset towards them than men of the past

I don't think you have any clue what feminists and women have argued if you think they're saying "men were better back in the day."

but they contributed to it and basically fought for this perception shift

"Look at what you made me do!"

Street_Jacket_2667 · 2026-06-05T02:56:42+00:00

It's really simple, the risk and effort isn't worth the reward.

Ranziel · 2026-06-05T08:30:10+00:00

Pretty sure only men complain about it, no? Women don't care, they can get sex whenever and they don't want a family anymore.

pickletea123 · 2026-06-08T01:56:49+00:00

I honestly don't see why we want to go back.

Kitchens still exist and they're more efficient than before.

pickletea123 · 2026-06-08T02:00:01+00:00

Back then, most people got married to survive. Plain and simple. The whole "marry for love" thing? That's pretty recent, didn't really show up until the 18th century.

So no one was fooling anyone. Both people knew exactly what the deal was: survival first, feelings later. And yeah, sometimes love did grow out of that over time. But it wasn't the reason they started.

No-Hovercraft-455 · 2026-06-04T22:31:24+00:00

"The idea that Grandma or great grandma didn't really love their husbands, they were just with them for survival."

It's not just "an idea", it's what we heard from women that became before us and had to suffer oppression. They married because they were expected to. Sure, they tried to choose men they at least liked but the men treated them poorly (another function of patriarchy) and they ended up not liking them. We know this because we know our grandmothers and our mothers know theirs. Those are people we have spoken with not an abstract "idea". This is what you get when you set up society in a way where adult people are forced to be dependents.

"You're essentially telling them that women are capable of feigning love for an entire marriage and having a whole ass family with a dude they don't really love for some perceived benefit."

Not just women. All people are. If your trust in someone bases on idea they "aren't capable of " deceiving you then you are screwed because every single human is capable of deceit.

And if you are threatening them with extremely bad life with no security, opportunities and threat of abject poverty while being outcast in society, you increase the odds significantly. Financial well-being isn't just about liking to have more money if the other option is abject poverty, it's about your actual physical wellbeing. It's not just a random thing you'd like to have, it's a need that you have to secure.

If you can't save or have retirement fund what do you think happens when your body starts breaking down. Most people would rather let one person believe a lie than be forever a burden and a source of worry to their entire family. Had men been put in same position, which you seemingly cannot imagine, the result would have been exactly the same. It actually is exactly the same, when women from wealthy countries visit impoverished countries - they are full of men willing to marry them and fake it for exactly the same reason. If someone is not your equal and you are their only reliable ticket to safety you are running a x10000000 amplified risk of being lied to.

Welcome to reality most people live in. Women also have no way of actually knowing if you are feigning entire marriage to them because you like regular sex, or even because you like our money in cases where that applies.

We all simply have to pick one person to trust and picking someone who is not oppressed and below us significantly improves odds we aren't being lied to for their survival. For example, you can still attempt to take advantage of people in poor countries (men and women are both capable of this) but if you do that just like your grandfather you are most likely their ticket out of abject poverty. You even know this, even passport bros know that's likely to be the case. Why wouldn't it have been the case in the past.

Comfortable-Dare-307 · 2026-06-04T21:18:13+00:00

As you can tell by the women's comments here, women don't really love anyone but themselves. Especially not men. For them, it's all about them being victims and thinking everyone owes them something. "What can the world do for me?". It's really sad that feminism has turned women against men and convinced them they don't have to be held accountable for anything. Just watch all the hate comments I'll probably get...

Kaleidoscopetide · 2026-06-05T04:39:44+00:00

I agree with everything in your post except for this:

Take for instance this one point that a lot of modern women, especially on Reddit like to push. The idea that Grandma or great grandma didn't really love their husbands, they were just with them for survival. They didn't have a choice. Well what do you think this teaches men that believe that message? You're essentially telling them that women are capable of feigning love for an entire marriage and having a whole ass family with a dude they don't really love for some perceived benefit. Assuming they actually believe that, why would the men hearing this claim not think modern women are capable of doing the exact same thing? They're expected to now mindlessly trust that will never happen?

Because great grandma's husband was her boss. As in, she had to do what he said and work for him in exchange for room and board. Some people happen to really like their bosses; I think my boss is an ass, but I laugh at his jokes and pretend to like him enough. A lot of the time, great grandpa didn't really love great grandma either--he just needed an employee. Of course modern women are capable of pretending to be in love that they do not feel, as are modern men. Men have also been in situations where they have to pretend to like a boss of some sort that they do not really like. However, for both men and women, living and sleeping with someone you do not really like is pretty unpleasant, and unless you are VERY rich you're probably not going to wind up with a gf who is only fucking you for your Toyota Corolla and ad-free netflix.

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Suddenfury · 2026-06-05T16:35:41+00:00

"feigning love for an entire marriage", this is not what women claim. They oftenly openly hated eachother in those marriages. The implication could also be that men were incompetent enough at recognizing other peoples feelings that they didn't notice, or just didn't care. There was a ton of unhappy marriages, one proof is the decline of husband poisonings when no-fault divorces were adopted.

As a man I say this to you, you're toxic and talk bullshit, you should shut up more. Now women, go tell a toxic woman off.

Glittering_Win_5085 · 2026-06-07T19:14:36+00:00

Your point is ahistorical; much Victorian misogyny was actually about women being much more lustful than men. Be a redpiller if you wish, but please at least understand the fundamentals of a topic before you form an opinion you think others need to be educated with.

AcanthaceaeKey5113 · 2026-06-27T05:19:48+00:00

Brilliant analysis of this multi-faceted, and multifactorial dynamic that all men my age and below have dealt with with realizing it until they are older.

Odd-Yoghurt1869 · 2026-06-04T22:40:50+00:00

I don't think women aren't happier now.

Sorprenda · 2026-06-04T19:19:43+00:00

Nothing is irreversible. Yes, time moves forward, but trends are always cyclical. Right now all of our institutions are failing, but the time will come when people begin congregating again. It will probably take an emergency, but it will happen. And at that time the gender differences once again reemerge, families will strengthen, and a brand new order will form. And then this same cycle will repeat itself, again and again.

Bharden217 · 2026-06-04T19:17:56+00:00

the_scar_when_you_go · 2026-06-05T13:22:41+00:00

You're essentially telling them that women are capable of feigning love for an entire marriage and having a whole ass family with a dude they don't really love for some perceived benefit.

Yes. Women can lie, too. Esp when they have to. Shocking.

But that isn't the point of saying it. The point is that, "but grandpa had it so good, so it's unfair for me to not have a participation trophy wife, too," isn't based in reality. Idealizing a past in which all women were forced to comply is ridiculous. There was nothing ideal about it. There's no dream life that used to be handed out, and now is being denied to men. That narrative needs to die off.

We're past the days of men believing women to be more virtuous or moral than themselves.

Every human has the same capacity. It's worth saying that one of the most significant issues reported by young men is difficulty in figuring out their values, and men overall have more flexible ethics. That's not intrinsic. It's also not something that should be ignored.

ThrowRAGlobeVase · 2026-06-04T18:45:26+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Men will never go back to what they used to be for good reason
Author	DietTyrone
Upvotes	140
Comments	447
Date	June 4, 2026 6:42 PM UTC (1 month ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1twwl6o/men_will_never_go_back_to_what_they_used_to_be/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-will-never-go-back-to-what-they-used-to-be-for.1582080 https://theredarchive.com/post/1582080

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