I constantly read on this sub that men don't put nearly as much effort into their appearance as women. Other than common sense and being physically fit, what can men really do?

SherbertBacon · 2020-06-04T05:20:50+00:00

Don't get a "new" haircut, get a flattering haircut. One that complements your head shape, hairline, hair type, style, and face. Learn how to style it too.
If you have yellow or crooked teeth, fix that shit immediately. You can buy cheap teeth whitening strips on Amazon that do a bang-up job
Don't just get "fit," get fairly big and lean. Get proportional. Don't skip leg day, don't turn into a giant meatball.
By "skincare": make sure you wash and have any acne treatments, wear sunscreen daily to prevent sun damage. This includes black heads.
Facial exercises can actually help reshape (some) of your face. It's probably excessive, but you asked for "other than" and facial exercises are what many models do regularly
Don't get "nice clothes," get clothes that fit well (tailored is best, you can even get custom-fitted t-shirts), do a bit of reading on what's fashionable—Steve McQueen has a timeless look if you're totally lost—and complements your personality. Know which colors and patterns convey which kind of impression and match your own skin color
- Good shoes are an important factor in this.
Learn about body language and adopt a masculine, confident one. Your first impression will color how people see you, and if they see you hunched over, darting your eyes, hands dug deep in your pockets, shielding yourself with a coffee cup, it doesn't portray strength or confidence at all. How you carry yourself impacts more than you may think.
Manscape everything. Don't have hair on the back of your neck or coming out your ears. If you have excessive chest hair, trim it down. Trim your eyebrows (probably don't need to pluck and definitely don't wax). How-tos on all of this are available anywhere online.
This is your own cost v. benefit (health and skin damage-wise), but a bit of tan can improve a look. If you're dark, then fuck you I'm jealous, you have amazing skin color already, just use lotion to stay moisturized.
A nice watch is a very flattering accessory. It's the man's equivalent of attractive jewellery.

Do most guys do even 1/3 of these things? No.

Fuzzy-Scene · 2020-06-04T08:00:50+00:00

Another valid post where good advice is given but yet there is a deluge of dissenting voices arguing the opposite. Take the advice, don't take the advice, it seems to me to be the ones that are arrogant to be the ones that fight all advice given because they "know better" and can not accept the fact others have answers they never thought of or just can't accept because they themselves are getting it wrong.

I despair with this lot. If you stopped to honestly think what you're currently doing and if it is working or not and properly assess rather than fighting everyone because you got to be "right" all the time, then maybe, just maybe you might need to take that advice. Madness is doing the same things over again and expecting results.

Just a side note; I recently spoke to someone who claimed they had all the right stuff... A good hair cut and some nice clothes. When I saw their picture it turned out his haircut was horrible and his clothes even worse. He looked like a 40yr-old dad who had given up on life and just rolled out of bed. His facial hair was scruffy, he looked like a hobo. This guy was 22 and argued he had all the "right stuff". If you have no style than picking your own clothes and haircut is a waste of time.

Ask the damn professionals and take their damn advice FFS!

Stop assuming that everyone wants you to look shit.

Ask hairdressers for an age-appropriate, fashionable, yet hair type appropriate cut.

Go online and look at men your age, look at what they are wearing and emulate it. Go into a store and ask a sales person to help you pick a more updated look. Ask a friend that looks good to help you (so long as they are not already wearing the 40-year-old-given-up-on-life style).

Take advice. TAKE ADVICE! Stop fighting people. Make a change and see if that garners results. If not then change again until.you find something that works.

DubsPackage · 2020-06-04T13:07:31+00:00

It boils down to "look good for YOU."

If you look in the mirror and you like what you see, then you're done.

"skin care routine" and becoming a soyfag won't get you laid.

What WILL get you laid is looking like the man you want to be.

If the man you want to be wears a fragrance then wear a fragrance.

If the man you want to be has a beard then have a beard.

The important thing is that *YOU* like how you look.

What *I* personally do :

- Before I take a selfie or go outside, I splash water in my hair and comb it, so it looks good

- I would not have ANY problem being bald, I think baldness denotes virility, in fact I have a mild complex about having all of my natural hair, because I feel like I must be low testosterone or something, I'd rather be bald, I think it would look better on me than a full head of hair.

- A watch, I think every man should have a watch, it denotes maturity and that your time is worth something. And I don't mean an Apple watch or a Swatch or some plastic soyfag thing, I mean a real watch.

- Glasses, I found a pair of $300 sunglasses, got prescription lenses on them tinted, and they look great on my face.

- Shoes, not sneakers

- Belt and shoes should match, if your shoes are brown, belt should be brown. If your shoes are black, belt should be black.

- Have a nice well-fit business suit.

- Straight and clean looking teeth, if they're yellow get them cleaned, use strips. If they're crooked, see a dentist.

- I have really bushy eyebrows, so I use an epilator to clean them up.

- Posture, stand tall, make yourself big, expand your chest, take up space, swagger. I don't /consciously/ do this, but I find myself unconsciously doing it and it makes a big difference.

- Try to have an easy grace about you, don't be jumpy/jittery, steady movements, try to walk with confidence.

- If your neck is fat, chew gum.

And yes, I do all of the above or have done them in the past, the bottom line is I look in the mirror and see what I need, and I work on that.

I don't spend 2 hours in the bathroom sculpting myself, just 5 minutes a day, sometimes I trim my beard, sometimes I trim my brow, whatever is most noticable on that day. Hell sometimes I cut my nails in the car at red lights.

mistresswhat · 2020-06-04T05:38:22+00:00

You take care of your skin so you don't age like a fucking raisin. No one likes acne or or flaky dry skin either, but if you don't have those and you want to age gracefully, wear moisturizer and sunscreen. It's kinda shocking to me that none of you realize this.

Get a flattering haircut. Not every haircut will suit your face or hair type. There's no really graceful way to go bald, but there are very bad ways to go bald and you want to avoid them. Ask your hairdresser. Also, take the hair pills. They help.

Dress well, have a sense of style. Don't go dressing like an idiot but wear clothing that fits, flatters your body type, and isn't totally generic. If you don't have any of your own clothes opinions, dress for the demographic you're trying to attract.

If you have bad eyebrows, fix them.

rosmaskinen · 2020-06-04T11:36:22+00:00

This one is actually a matter that I do feel bad for men in – because it's not as socially encouraged to test out styles and haircuts during your awkward teenage years if you're a male. Here I have a few ones that I have based on my male family and friends:

Good teeth. There are OTC-treatments up to pricy dental work if needed. If you find a good dentist they're probably able to make veneers that are more natural-looking or can recommend better alternatives – like porcelain crowns that I've heard good things about.
If you have acne scars or overly textured skin – invest in laser treatments (which I had a luck with), or a medical peel/dermabrasion. Go to an established dermatologist, an aesthetician is more fitting for people with milder problems who don't mind going to the aesthetican every three weeks to uphold results.
Get a better style. Find out what looks good on you. It depends on what type of girl you're going for, but if you're going for someone preppy/elegant you should throw out any printed off the rack shirts, or just not wear them outside, and if you only wear sneakers or sandals it might be a good idea to reconsider changing your shoe wardrobe.
If you wear glasses and don't like contacts – it's worth to spend seemingly insane amounts of time finding the most flattering glasses there are. Does all the difference.
Perfume! It's a good way of subtly communicating taste and refinement. Citrus and 'fresh' notes are nice, but they're generally quite plain and don't last well on the skin, and barely develop. The first instict it to go for designer scents, but sometimes you can find something more interesting with someting more off-brand or in the other direction, niche. I'm a fragrancehead so I might give some advice if someone is interested.
Don't be fat, or too skinny. While general body types appeal to different women, it's a good idea to have a normal BMI and have a work out routine that works for your body. Make sure your posture looks good – if you're on the skinny side it's even more important.
Good social skills aren't just about feeling less insecure in social situations. Good social skills is what makes you a pleasant and charismatic person. The goal is to be able to host a grown up dinner party/drink and do it well. If you have a stutter or a treatable speech inpediment, it's worth to go to a speech therapist.

HeckleandChide · 2020-06-04T18:13:36+00:00

Good haircut (i.e. go to a barbershop, not ProCuts)
Tailored clothes (i.e. get your clothes fitted to your shape, not off the rack)
Good shoes (i.e. shoes that match the occasion and are of good quality)
Skincare (i.e. wash your face, moisturize, get enough sleep, address pimples / dark spots, etc.)
Lift weights (i.e. focus on creating a V-shape for the aesthetic appeal plus losing fat enhances your jawline)
Matching accessories (i.e. a sharp watch for the occasion, a handkerchief in the pocket of a suit jacket, etc.)
Good posture (shoulders back, chest out, relaxed, etc.)
Voice tone quality (look it up, it's important)
Practicing conversation openers
Smile (the right way, not like a dork or a creep)
Teeth strips for white teeth
Breath control (mints, gum, etc.)
Coordination (make sure your outfit, including shoes/jacket/accessory, matches the occasion and matches colors/patterns properly)

All of this is for appearance / initial reaction. Why is it important? Because if a man can't be bothered to get his shit together enough to increase his chances of getting laid, then how the hell is the woman expected to believe he is going to put in the effort to be a decent partner / decent father later on down the road?

Syduka · 2020-06-04T04:33:51+00:00

Don't forget "wear clothes that fit"

like the average guy wears clothes that don't fit lmaooo

gaylord_fag_2 · 2020-06-04T10:40:42+00:00

Men don't have make up or heels? Speak for yourself.

2020-06-04T12:51:55+00:00

If a guys face isn't facially attractive/has good height, none of these things suggested will get him women. His best chance is to gym max and then get plastic surgery to look more attractive or just HOPE a woman somewhere will find him attractive.

If Chris Hemsworth was dressed and had equivalent hygiene like your typical homeless guy, do you think women wouldn't want him when he makes a profile on Tinder? Its about bones.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2020-06-04T05:12:38+00:00

Teeth bleaching, cleaning and straightening

ontherailstoday · 2020-06-04T06:14:55+00:00

> "Get a new haircut". This advice is the first one but it's probably just for guys with a full head of hair and ironically those guys look good even with messy hair. Most guys sooner or later will start receding or go bald so they keep their hair short because they actually want to look good given what they have.

Women completely rethink their haircuts repeatedly throughout their lives. New job? New hairstyle Summer? New hairstyle. Getting married? New hairstyle. There's no reason you can't do this all through the process of going bald until you get to the point where shaving it all is the best option. "It will happen later so I will adopt the hairstyle now" is lazy ass and you know it.

> "Skincare". This probably helps, I have no idea but does anyone think the average guy's problem is his skin? He had better skin when he was younger but he was still struggling.

If you just do what the average man does you'll be an average man. If he'd worn sunscreen when younger he'd look better now, if he wears sunscreen now he'll look better in ten years than he would otherwise.

> Most women do put a a lot of effort into their looks but that doesn't translate well to men.

Most men put almost no effort into their looks and thus it is easier to stand out from other men by making some effort.

> Men don't have makeup or heels

There is nothing stopping you buying makeup and using it carefully in moderation.. concealer for discolouration and dark circles, maybe a smidge of eyeliner, maybe a little bit of lip balm to keep your lips from being dry and crusty looking. Also... lifts. Boots.

> and unless he's good looking to start with, nice clothes won't make him look hot.

You either want to look your best or you don't.

> The average woman can choose to look hotter, the average thin guy can't.

The average thin guy needs his shirts altered to fit him properly and will be 1000% better off if he selects his shirts carefully and gets a few alterations made to them.

Look I get it... this is a a bunch of faffing hassle. And? I don't do it! I sit happily at home on my fat fifty year old cunt and don't go round looking for guys to fill it up for me. I cut my hair myself! I leave it weeks to pluck those three witchy-poo hairs on my chin! I use dentistry for practical not cosmetic purposes! I go grey, my hair thins and I shrug about it! I wear cheap hoodies and skivvies and pull on elastic waist trousers from Best&Less! I don't pay regard to body shape issues in choosing my exercise routine! I wear makeup only if I've got a power meeting and need to not have my dark circles make me look tired!

But did I do it when I was younger and seriously in the market... both for relationships and employment? Hell yeah. If you can up your looks by half a point, there's more people who will even talk to you for more than thirty seconds.

Stop being lazy if you want results, stop complaining about lack of results if you are going to continue being lazy. I'm not saying you need to put as much effort in as the girls who are very plastic fantastic about their looks, but if you're not getting the results you want you should be at least trying as hard as the basic bitches do.

SemiCel · 2020-06-04T18:58:09+00:00

I did most of the shit in this thread a few years ago, and just ended up looking gay as fuck. I got more female attention, but 95% of them just wanted a gay best friend.

Chad doesn’t do half the shit in this thread and he still gets women. You think Chad is getting his clothes tailored? Clipping his fingernails “just right” to get women?

Truth is, there is no perfect recipe you can create to get women. You’re either born with it or you aren’t. No amount of tailored suits, fingernail trimming, or shower taking will fix you.

Go ahead and do this stuff, guys, and come back a few months later having favored no better with women but maybe getting a few female friends to listen to complain about their abusive Chad boyfriend that doesn’t do half this shit. But don’t worry, after they use you as an emotional tampon, they’ll go home and fuck him.

revente · 2020-06-04T09:17:57+00:00

Man doing heavy workout 3 times a week and keeping a reasonable diet is putting more effort into his appearance than 90% of women. CMV.

Andress1 · 2020-06-04T08:42:43+00:00

Well everytime I go to the gym I see at least 8 men for each woman. So much effort, but in shallow looks like makeup and hair.

Pola_Lita · 2020-06-04T06:18:49+00:00

Messy hair isn't the same as a good cut that will not only stay in place longer but accentuate your better features. If you're losing your hair, do what works. Change the style or shave it completely. You have facial hair to consider too. There are literally dozens of options there. Invest the money and go to a knowledgeable stylist. They're experts and it's their job.

Same with your wardrobe. Talk to experts, learn what style looks good on you, colors are important. Buy the best quality you can afford and take good care of it. Even t-shirts and jeans. NO WRINKLY STUFF. That could just be me but I doubt it. Nothing makes a man seem less... IDK. Engaging?

Don't forget details. Tie clips, cufflinks, rings, earrings, if you can only afford one good one, do that. Take care of your hands. Keep your nails clipped and clean, wash your hands frequently and find a lotion you like. Just think of it as another investment.

TechnicalMight0 · 2020-06-04T07:46:24+00:00

I particularly hate how people act like what women do with their appearance isn't mostly to compete in the FSM. Also, it's BS that most women take great care of their appearance: a woman who's overweight and looks like a Karen isn't taking care of her appearance just because she goes to the hair salon twice a month and paints her nails. Also 99% of skincare is snake oil.

LotBuilder · 2020-06-04T07:52:07+00:00

It’s worth it to make the effort In your 20’s and 30’s so that you still look great in your 50’s and 60’s. Fitness, teeth, skin care, etc is all cumulative. If you put in effort all along you don’t have any major breakdowns. Daily grooming is big, showing that you care about yourself is big, smelling good is big.

Face exercises do help. Jade stones and rollers help too. They won’t turn you from ugly to attractive but it will help you hold on to what you have for an extra decade or two. The difference between a 60 year old that took pride in their appearance and one that didn’t is pretty big. I know two identical 60 year old twins like that and one looks 45 and the other looks 70.

ling0n · 2020-06-04T09:04:13+00:00

Work out, good posture, nice attitude (smile more and be socially comfortable), get a good haircut and also take care of it (make the hair shiny etc), use moisturizer and sunscreen, take care of nails/hands, clean shaved face (or very well groomed, no pube looking beard thx), pluck eyebrows/nose hair, smell good and clean, wear more tight well fitting clothes with nice colors and patterns and cuts (not just black, brown, grey baggy shit with a crap hat on top). Accessories like sunglasses, ties, rings, hats, shoes etc makes a big difference as well and expresses personality.

Also there are some treatments for at least slowing down hair loss and hair implants. And lots of women do get plastic surgery or injections (not that I'd say anyone should do that, but you could). And what's stopping men from using make up today? Stereotypically gay men have been using it for ages. They usually look great. Basically: Try looking like a more stereotypically gay man to get an idea. :D There's a reason for why women often want them.

Nodoxxintoxin · 2020-06-04T09:40:03+00:00

The list given to you by other posters is pretty complete imho, and yes, to be perfectly honest I do think there is a law of diminishing returns for looksmaxxing for most guys.

Past the don’t be fat and have great hygiene, you are better investing your time in being good at something women care about like playing a sport, being in a band, etc. Lots of really ugly dudes have been highly successful with women by having high status within a niche social circle and a confident attitude.

🎼 Well he was only five foot three but girls could not resist his stare / Pablo Picasso was never called an asshole / Not in New York"

hardlifeman · 2020-06-04T17:13:44+00:00

1.) Don't be short 2.) Don't be balding 3.) Be Muscular 4.) Don't have acne or acne scars 5.) Don't have wrinkles 6.) Wear expensive designer clothes 7.) Wear expensive flashy watches 8.) Wear lots of different expensive shoes 9.) Wear very expensive suits, with expensive cufflinks 10.) Don't be short

biplab1990 · 2020-06-04T09:34:41+00:00

Women are just salty, that men can wake up in the morning and look presentable in 5 minutes flat. They want men to spend as much time as them getting ready, just for the sake of it.

Other than common sense like wearing clean clothes, trimming your beard, brushing your teeth, and putting on a deodorant, nothing else matters when it comes to attracting women. No woman is going to reject a man just because he doesn't have a skin care routine.

It's besides the point, but as a man, I don't think women in general spend enough time on their appearance. If they spent as much time doing squats, as much they spend on putting on makeup, they'll be far more attractive to men, not to mention save on hundreds of dollars.

abolish_the_divine · 2020-06-04T06:49:31+00:00

i put zero effort into my appearance except lifting weights and by most accounts i look like i just got out of prison. guess what? the chicks dig it. all this grooming advice just sounds like women trying to turn you into a walking dildo. if you don't excite them naturally, then you never will. just a sad fact of life.

i'd also add that, doing pretty much the exact fucking opposite of what women tell you will get you far. never listen to their advice, but notice what they actually respond positively to. you'll find they're two completely different things.

trueorfalsedmitry · 2020-06-04T04:41:42+00:00

Women have to have their attention arrested to acknowledge a man's presence. That's what they're really talking about.

"Looksmaxing" for men has to remarkable in some way. "Higher attractiveness" is not really what is required. Rather, a man either has to:

be so attractive (i.e. top 5% or so) that every human notes their attractiveness, or
be so distinctive in their appearance that no one can ignore them.

Even being really ugly will get you the second, but the advantage is immediately negated by the fact that... you're ugly.

Women want men to exhibit particular, ostentatious specific value by standing out. Dressing in a way that is far more formal or trendy than your immediate peers and having a trendy haircut will make you stand out. Dressing weird is almost as effective. It might not really improve your attractiveness markedly, but it is effective peacocking just because you don't blend into the background made up of every other non-Chad.

Adadum · 2020-06-04T06:28:50+00:00

For men, you gotta be fit, well groomed, decent fashion sense, and maybe a wrist-watch.

That's just the physical appearance obviously. What is mostly attractive is the mental aspect. Is he confident?

Workaholiconew · 2020-06-04T07:48:02+00:00

Power, Status, behave in masculine but non confrontational ways.

Appearance and wealth are the major focus in men's view. But you can improve elsewhere.

I to this day cannot understand women thing with power and status. They are useless to me. But saying I am a professor or diciplining a misbehaving student seem to get women going... for some reason.

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Dodechaedron · 2020-06-04T06:47:00+00:00

As a man, not only I always chose my clothes based on the price tag. I in fact actively hated shopping for clothes. Now that I can afford better quality outfits, I look for comfort first but I still need my wife's advice on how well a piece of garment suits me: having 'taste' in clothing is something that I never developed any interest or pleasure in. The same can be said about the barber: for years I had the hair clipped as short as possible, so that I could keep it for as long as possible, before starting to look like a worn-out toothbrush. Taking care of the looks is natural for some people, it never was for me and still isn't. Of course it doesn't need to be an obsession but for me this has been a weakness and, forget about seduction, it's a skill that helps in job interviews and career as well (whenever you are to be chosen between a set of competitors).

flyinghorse1 · 2020-06-04T07:13:40+00:00

Gym is a good place: dont need to be jacked but have some muscle and dont be overweigh.

Hair - nicely styled and always washed. If you're balding probably shave it all off.

Facial hair - choose a style and stick with that and maintain it. Just dont have the lazy look.

Teeth - basic teeth maintenance of clean, healthy, and somewhat white teeth is the min.

Skin - wash properly with a good skin cleaner and just throw on a little moisturizer after. Consider a good exfoliate every week.

Clothes - this is actually to difficult to put into one line but common mistakes are clothes that dont fit, lazy or dirty footwear, wearing shitty sports baseball caps.

rhyth7 · 2020-06-04T08:24:59+00:00

Can I tell you something? Teenage and college age men, at least the ones I knew and saw around me when I was also in school with them, did put effort into their look. Even cowboys dressed sharp and cared about having nice hair and Cologne and nice jeans and boots. Young men, who aren't poor or aren't lazy, do put effort into what they wear, how they smell, and how their hair and beards look.

But for some reason either after leaving college or after having a stable ltr their attention to these things drop. Maybe cuz there's not tons of available young women around them anymore. One thing I've noticed though is that people who are into hip hop really care about their image and so continue to put on effort most of their lives.

Proteinsaurus · 2020-06-04T08:37:10+00:00

I'd also argue that conscious male self-improvement is at an all-time high currently while women find ways to dress more casual and sloppily every year.

PrekaereLage · 2020-06-04T08:48:50+00:00

I hate the limited set of clothing options and all that. "Looking good" as men means all looking the fucking same.

RimbaudsRevenge · 2020-06-04T09:21:48+00:00

There's a lot of truth to it though, but it can be very hard for many men to do something which seems rather simple on paper. That is because grooming oneself and starting to reflect yourself in others it's, in a sense, a rather effeminate quality. Part of that comes down to born personality and men on average are often born with a lower capacity of feminine qualities.

Of course there's a cultural programming too but it's very much a "fight your own nature" thing. I believe that's a good message. You may have been born with a limited capacity of aesthetic sense but if you practice, you can improve a lot more than you think. And pursuing something which isn't in your immediate skill set tends to increase your intelligence by a lot.

The good thing about accepting that you to a large part is a product of your biology makes the fighting easier. Even when you don't reach incredibly far at first, you congratulate yourself for the small strides, knowing that going against your born instincts is always a big feat.

A lot of people with addictions did better when they were informed their propensity to fall into it is mostly hereditary. It removes a lot of the shame that cultural constructionists clumsily impose.

harleyhoney22 · 2020-06-04T09:53:14+00:00

You can workout/lose weight, get hair plugs, get a nosejob, change your wardrobe from tacky shirts with slogans to button downs out of a gucciesque catalogue

notetaking83 · 2020-06-04T10:14:26+00:00

Social skills and a sense of humor. That's about it.

helloimmeokthen · 2020-06-04T11:40:07+00:00

If there’s one thing and one thing only I could suggest, invest in an expensive fragrance. It just elevates men. And don’t go for the most popular ones either (like Dior Sauvage)- go and do your research and invest in a niche fragrance. Make sure it’s distinct with masculine notes. And make it your signature scent.

reluctantly_red · 2020-06-04T13:16:32+00:00

Soap + Water = All any guy needs to know about Personal Care

Bekiala · 2020-06-04T13:24:10+00:00

"Most women do put a a lot of effort into their looks but that doesn't translate well to men. Men don't have makeup or heels and unless he's good looking to start with, nice clothes won't make him look hot. The average woman can choose to look hotter, the average thin guy can't."

You make a really good point here. Other than lifting, exercise and basic hygiene there isn't much men can do.

mindsanitizer · 2020-06-04T15:15:00+00:00

Ladies: helping your male friends learn about this shit is maybe the biggest value you can provide within your friendship. Skincare seems *insanely* complex and snake-oily to guys. Fashion is very hard to get good advice on (shopkeepers will just upsell you whatever they think you will say yes to, you can blow hundreds of dollars on crap easily). Hair is less hard but again, hairdressers don't have the social context to know what is appropriate to your social group.

pickles-n-noodles · 2020-06-04T15:30:57+00:00

What do you mean nice clothes won’t make him look hot? Even an average who dresses nice and flatteringly will get him from 6 to an 8. put on a nice fresh cologne or perfume. Groom yourself, that includes facial hair and body hair.

QuebecMadonna · 2020-06-04T22:27:49+00:00

Men need to stop appropriating homelessness culture!! Some of you guys don’t even bother taking a shower... it’s bad out there😭

lonelyrommel1998 · 2020-06-04T23:33:25+00:00

Well getting taller is a good one

fuggtyler · 2020-06-04T06:35:52+00:00

Honestly, so much of attraction is relative.

My "style" growing up means I rejected the bravado and arrogance and the "tryhard" to "look like you're not trying hard" fashion that the really popular and high status guys in my group had.

The one common thread other than being decently good looking is they ALL dressed in designer clothing, they'd be wearing Gucci, Superdry e.t.c

What's more they'd talk about what looks good and they'd always be following the trends , when there was a time everyone was wearing slouchy beanies, guess what? They all wore slouchy beanies. When people were wearing super skinny jeans, they were.

I looked at it as childish and thought myself more mature thinking "wow they just do what everyone else is doing". But actually I was being close minded, they were actually maximising their potential. They dressed impeccably all the time and wore what made them look confident and valuable.

Trust me, at present day after losing some weight, I have better bone structure and a better hairstyle. I invested in a jacket that cost 200$ not the kind of thing I'd ever do.

When I go out to a high foot traffic area with younger women my age, I will always get glances and at least one girl just stare and give overt "talk to me" signals. It's because I have "maxxed" myself. It can even be your own style, check out "Pierre XO" on youtube, he even wears makeup, women seem to go crazy over him. Being extravagant or well styled is a huge plus.

In all honesty I think it's better to be skinny shredded than. "gym bro". Gym bod with big gains you mostly get men checking you out. When you are real skinny women are attracted to that kind of borderline "starving artist" look. Once or twice when I wore jeans I've literally had women start to get actually insecure (I know it's sad, too many recovering anorexic chicks), a lot of women like the style.

You can complain that "women always go after the 'bad guys'/'fuckbois'" well yeah women go after guys that seem fun, mysterious and like a "rebel without a cause"..

Well have you tried dressing like one? If you can pull it off, I gotta say the results are amazing.

2020-06-04T06:47:54+00:00

"Skincare". This probably helps, I have no idea but does anyone think the average guy's problem is his skin? He had better skin when he was younger but he was still struggling.

We women are hyper focussed on details. Nature or nurture, I don't care how it came to be but I can see it if one of my friends has a french manicure. Google it. It's nails being done in the natural nail color with a natural white tip. I can see that.

So if you have a blackhead then I'll see it. I can't ignore the damn blackhead and it's gross. I know it's a natural thing and not actually dirty, but my blackheads are gone the moment I can remove them.

If you have dandruff, I can see that. If you have dry skin and lose skin flakes, I can see that. If you have a slightly oily sheen to your hair because you skipped a day, I can see that. If you miss one day of brushing your teeth, I can see the slight build up of tooth stone. We see the details.

That's the level of skincare we talk about.

and unless he's good looking to start with, nice clothes won't make him look hot.

It's not about hot, increasing 1-2 points is fine enough.

And you severely underestimate how good clothes can make you look. Especially since most men come from an outfit that makes them look bad.

How many men do you know that wear black? What if I told you that that's a difficult color to pull off? That drains the color out of most people's skin, that make them look pale, ...

How many men do you know that have a wardrobe that's 90% t-shirts. What if I told you that most t-shirts (cheap stretchy) look good if you have broad shoulders and will put focus on belly fat? So t-shirts are basically a fit guy outfit?

How many men do you see with well fitted jeans? Do you look at womens asses/breasts? Then why would hiding your ass be attractive to women?

It's easy to improve your looks with good clothes if you've been dragging down your score with bad clothes. Most men I know would be able to go from a 4 to a 6, maybe even a 7.

TuffGuy93 · 2020-06-04T04:53:10+00:00

I noticed when I wear designer clothing I get a lot more looks from women

taapy234 · 2020-06-04T05:11:43+00:00

This is wby you don't actually listen to women when it comes to men's needs and development.

A lot of what they offer is 100% pure projection on their part.

You don't ask the advice from a fish on how to be a better fisherman. You do that based on better bait, better techniques that attract the fish.

Same way, men can do a lot of things that they respond to.

Don't put women on pedestal.
Give up your instinct to be the "provider." Its no longer effective at getting a woman other than gold diggers and born again christians who are prolific hoes in the past, or women engaging in dual mating strategy.
Engage in mind games. In casual context, mind games are like cat nips to women. In fact, they actually reward you with attention and sex if you do it the way they like it. (unconsciously despite all the vocal protestations you see from women online). Here's a good list of what you can do
Stop caring about women's wellbeing in the short term. Remember, they are strong and independent and they have 1000's of ways to get help when they need it. So don't be that 1001 way for a woman to unload her bullshit onto you. Yes, believe it or not, being selfish is actually really, really beneficial to you when the whole world stands against your interests and wellbeing as a man when it comes to sex and relationships.
Turn your personality into grey hat and dip your toes into black hat territory instead of being a white hat.

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2020-06-04T04:35:46+00:00

Buy a suit and get it tailored.

Get a haircut which fits your face shape.

Skincare routine.

Historic-Alley-Cat · 2020-06-04T09:30:47+00:00

I’d say men generally can do better dressing well. And having a sense of style doesn’t mean expensive clothes. Just things that work out on your body without sagging or being too tight or outdated. Earth tones and tailored pieces instead of graphic tees and messy looks can do wonders for your audience be it a date or friends.

2020-06-04T14:12:25+00:00

I feel like if you follow the top comments you're going to get attention from gay guys, not woman...

ndestruktx · 2020-06-04T14:31:46+00:00

Most guys do not go bald. The ones that do need to learn how to make it look good for them, otherwise you’re SOL.

the_calibre_cat · 2020-06-04T15:07:05+00:00

Skincare is a big one. :P

kkillah · 2020-06-04T16:02:33+00:00

nice clothes (like matching or something that gives off a sense of style) will take a 6 to an 8. y’all are so obsessed w women hypergamy or whatever and then discount it when you can use it in your favor.

women like confident men. express yourself however makes you confident and that will also boost you

2020-06-04T16:12:12+00:00

Most teenagers and young people don’t have great skin and it takes a lot of work to manage it because everybody’s system responds differently. It’s not a single action that must be done it’s holistic and continuous self-improvement men have the same options as women for it, less heavy obvious makeup

Men can also wear lifts and tinted moisturizer to blur imperfections and no one will ever know. That’s just a start.

The average thin guy absolutely can wear more flattering clothing. On top of that you said in your OP that men can lift. So once they put all that effort and if they are wearing ill fitting wranglers in a pocket protector that is going to minimize the visible results kind of like spending 10 hours a week at the gym but then gorging on McDonald’s every time afterwards.

2020-06-04T16:29:08+00:00

I constantly read on this sub that men don't put nearly as much effort into their appearance as women. Other than common sense and being physically fit, what can men really do?

That's a loaded question with way too many presuppositions.

Maybe women waste too much money/time/energy into appearance?

Guys who are successful in the SMP don't attribute their success by putting more effort into appearance. And the vast majority of guys who are unsuccessful in the SMP would still be unsuccessful even if they spend more money/time/energy into appearance.

The best thing a guy can do to improve his appearance (and much more) is to hit the gym and lift heavy / eat healthy too.

I am not going to mention hygiene because I take that as a given; and someone who doesn't take care of their own hygiene chances are that they have "issues".

ridgecoyote · 2020-06-04T17:12:16+00:00

Men are function ; women are form. Doesn’t matter what a man looks like, it matters what he can do. Men get their self-esteem from work, women get their self - esteem from how they look. A man who cares about how he looks is probably gay. (A self-confessed old school fool)

SaBahRub · 2020-06-04T17:31:09+00:00

There’s plenty they could do, but they don’t wanna. Just like women could probably get more commitment by rolling over and acting like a helpless bubblehead

Didittowinit · 2020-06-04T18:46:39+00:00

Women like faces, muscles and tall height. They want men on: Steroids. Plastic surgery. Leg lengthener surgery. And stomach stapling.

KulkulkanX · 2020-06-04T19:21:23+00:00

I think many men associate any "excessive: grooming of attention to appearance as not manly or gay. That, or think they are owed relationships/sex by virtue id their very existence want something for nothing.

Maximizing attractiveness is really a type of marketing. Marketers exist to make the best and most appeaing package to get people to part eih their hard earned money. As men seeking straight relationships are most often the sellers, men should be cognizant of how they package themselves!

squishles · 2020-06-04T19:34:22+00:00

No matter what you do it will never be as intricate as the effort a semi competent woman puts into makeup. (for real have you seen those youtube makeup tutorials? They're on some bob ross shit with that painting some happy little eyebrows)

slavicgypsygirl · 2020-06-04T20:40:36+00:00

I really don't understand all the gender competition I read on this sub when each one is totally different

grand_tiremaster · 2020-06-04T20:55:36+00:00

A thin guy can absolutely get gains. Eat more and max out heavier reps. Keep going until you can't anymore. The thing about gaining muscle mass is that it takes a while to see results. When I was working on toning my abs I didn't really start to see a difference until 3 months into training. And I only trained my abs 2-3 times a week. But I did start to see improvement. It can take some people 1-2 years to see a huge difference, given you aren't using hormone treatments (steroids for example will give you the strength to push out more reps without tiring out as you normally would). There is no shame in taking hormone treatments as a man to boost your stamina and strength in the gym, by the way! It might be expensive though? And your insurance may not cover it.

wolkmi · 2020-06-04T21:05:58+00:00

The most important attribute is height and people never recommend anything for men to gain inches/cm. That's all that matters, if a man is too short or midget: limb surgery. If a guy is short: boots or shoes who add 3-5 inches, If it were socially acceptable, men could also wear high heels like Prince, Sonny Bono, Elton John, David Bowie...

dot_dot_dot__ · 2020-06-04T04:44:29+00:00

Plastic surgery. Not truly needed if the guy is interesting or is skilled in something creative though.

Edit: I should add I'm not supporting plastic surgery per se. But you did ask.

Troy016 · 2020-06-04T05:09:54+00:00

Women want guys to look like their version of men . Which is , you already know . “Skeptical”

Brae_Andrews · 2020-06-04T10:08:08+00:00

Only because Men Sexualize OR Glorify the Female Body! Men wanna see boobs and ass and the Hooker Outfits do just that. Most Women will NEVER go out of the House without any makeup on! Sad Really! Because Men wanna them to always look young and good! Society has risen Men's standards of appearance of Females so high that this is the Norm. Men need to SNAP out of this Fair tale of what Love and Romance should be. I said it before and say it again; Men Fall in Love with a Dream, Marry a Reality and Divorce a Nightmare! MGTOW is Finally waking Men up to this!...

asdf333aza · 2020-06-04T12:30:09+00:00

Ignore these females. If you did put effort into your looks, they'd be insecure about you looking better than them.

Crazy how they claimed men don't value their looks while 2/3rds of them are overweight and obese.

87AudreyHorne · 2020-06-04T06:11:33+00:00

Shaving their face. Or if you want a beard make sure you can grow one that doesn't look like pubic hair and keep it nicely. But better bet is to shave it - looks neater and cleaner every time to me.

Skincare - many guys and girls have bad skin, acne etc. I dont think using make up in this case is a good option. But I know men who use concealer, and I know men who didnt even want to put on a dermatologist prescribed cream (their mums have to force them to use it)

Dandruff- a lot of men usually don't do anything about it if they have it

Nose hair - a big thing I noticed. Guys have often bigger nostrils which is ok but often you get an unpleasant view inside. Especially when it's cold weather. Trim it and check for boogers regularly

Nails- just dont let them be longish and out or shape. I hate those corners on the nails looking outgrown. You just need to use nail cutter to keep then short

Shaving armpits is a good idea

I dont think men need tailored suits and all that, jeans are classic and I get that not everyone wants to dress up and wear whatever is currently trendy (I personally prefer that) but cargo pants or sweatpants are really bad. Those awful sandals and shoe-sandals are gross. Wear nice sneakers, you dont have to get fancy just have a sense of sight.

Clean your ears etc. You probably are but take some time to look if you missed something

Pluck odd hairs on your face. You don't need to pluck your eyebrows but if you have 1-3 hairs right in the middle or have a birthmark with one long hair sticking out just pluck it.

I think that the issue is that men dont spend the time looking at themselves. It sounds condescending to talk about hygiene because most men of course do shower, clean their ears and wash their hair. But human body sometimes needs closer examination and better you see it in your bathroom than the girl sitting next to you

In my experience men can be very clean but they really dont care about their own looks.

AlissonHarlan · 2020-06-04T08:47:07+00:00

if you snore, see a doctor... it's not really about physical attractiveness, but i would not even give a chance to a guy who snore before starting a relationship, and no i'll not take sleeping pills just because you don't want to see one lol
have clean cloth... we prefer cloth where pets doesn't sleep on it and are full of hairs.
Smell good : you don't need an expensive perfume, but some dudes are angry with the bathroom accessories... some others smoke in their car... not very attractive.
wear color that match to your eyes, or at least, fit to you. nothing is more depressing that somebody with always the same grey/military green jacket. (especially if you have grey hair or no hair at all (which is fine but) dull color make you older)
avoid shoes or cloths with holes
do something with your beard, shave, don't shave, shave weird forms, but do something, and try to not look like a hobo
personaly i enjoy when the hairs in the south are trimmed.

(jeez i read the others comments, and feel like my bar is very low XD )

Kyogan · 2020-06-04T23:09:45+00:00

You can put on nicer clothes, and nicer haircuts and do skin care.

But if you ugly, then you ugly.

Most of men's "beauty" it's really on the gym and in nutrition.

You think that meh men will look better just because of a new haircut? Or have nice clothes? And they put on the finest foreskin beauty product?

He will look like a try hard.