Is it fair to say that the evidence shows that women find it difficult to feel attraction for a man with less money than her?

MattTheBruce · 2022-01-07T14:57:43+00:00

It's difficult to defeat eons of evolution in 30 years. Women pair at their socioeconomic level or above. This often leaves as much as 20% of men "un-mate-able."

What may be an unpopular truth, an unemployed/underemployed male = An obese female.

Powerful_Cod_4469 · 2022-01-07T12:14:59+00:00

Evolution largely helped develop men that look at many mates as an option and women to look for the best available mate. This worked in smaller tribes. I am not so sure it works in the modern world.

pubgmisc · 2022-01-07T14:29:36+00:00

women date up

Gaiamanuscript · 2022-01-07T19:17:30+00:00

Of course. Nobody wants a big baby who is also penniless

WilliamWyattD · 2022-01-07T13:07:26+00:00

It's always dangerous to oversimplify the female attraction calculus.

Yes, classic hypergamy is real. But that doesn't mean women cannot have short-term desire for men who make less. But for choosing LTRs, his success tends to matter.

But here's the thing. Increasingly, you cannot balance out a lack of qualities in one area with an excess in another. If you aren't close to her equal in terms of looks, you may get her to commit. She may even think she's OK with this. But eventually you pay a price. She may not even be aware of this until resentment kicks in later.

Basically, consider being her economic equal of superior as a minimum entry requirement. Having met that, think no more of it. Now, imagine whether in a world that did not care about money, could you really get her? Is she in your league when money is not a factor? If not, I'd stay away. Bad things will happen.

It's really a good idea for guys to limit themselves to their near looksmatches. You can get a bit of leeway with charisma, but typically don't too much of it. Stay in your lane here and you and her are more likely to be happy later on.

2022-01-07T17:07:18+00:00

I saw a funny comment on a post in the dating sub asking women if they cared about money. A woman said something like “I want a man who I consider my equal.” Not who actually is her equal, but who she considers to be her equal. And I think a lot of women hide what they really mean with wordplay like that. If you know to watch for it, you’ll catch their inconsistencies.

AreOut · 2022-01-07T12:17:53+00:00

overwhelming yeah but not all women, there are rich women who date slightly lower class men

and if you look like Jeremy Meeks they'll even date a total loser

NinjaOfTheSouth · 2022-01-07T12:22:58+00:00

I mean yea, there’s pretty much already been studies on this.

Plus we know women like to date up anyways.

neetykeeno · 2022-01-07T14:33:37+00:00

It isn't so much lack of raw attraction so much as the fact he represents only a burden. Most dudes aren't socialised to take the role of helpmate to a more prosperous more competent female partner. Men represent pure burden if they don't earn much

I've been there back in the nineties. Coming home from my shitty job to my then husband who had lost his job and the place is messier than when I left, his ashtray is overflowing, he hasn't done anything to make food and the first thing he asks me is what's for dinner. Night after night, week after week, month after month of that shit. That's how it goes. Not even a plan to make me some damn packet ramen....like would that fucking kill him "should I make ramen" instead of "what's for dinner". And who wants to indulge in a war of nagging just to get a little support from a deeply unsupportive gender?

Men are usually fine about providing financial support. Not so much about the other stuff.

No woman thinks "I will marry this hot broke guy and not only will the sex be incredible he will also cook dinner for me and take my clothes to the drycleaners and I can own a dog because he will love it and care for it too and walk it for me when I can't and he will decorate the house and he will remember and shop for people's birthdays and I will be so happy, relaxed and cared for". Women don't think that because men generally don't do that. Women tend to more often than not (there are exceptions) look at the hot broke guy, think "uh nice body but what a waste" and then forget he exists.

LackOf_Empathy · 2022-01-07T12:12:18+00:00

The more money a woman makes, the fewer options of men she has since most women never want to settle. Women want a man whose SMV is higher than their own is.

Gari_305 · 2022-01-07T13:27:50+00:00

It seems that the evidence is pretty overwhelming that women really struggle to find a man to love if all the men available to her have less money than her.

It's possible only if it's a mother-son type of relationship i.e. sugar momma, boy-toy relationships

For example :

Erica Badu's relationship with a 27 year old male

Madonna's relationship with younger men

On the low end of the spectrum

When Female Teacher's having affairs with Male students also here's another example

Thus it can happen, but the guy has to be attractive and follow her lead

PancakeWaffless · 2022-01-07T12:09:56+00:00

obviously. Most women date up, we've known this for a while now.

DerekMorganBAU · 2022-01-07T12:50:59+00:00

If you don’t have money or potential but you’re attractive then you’re a short term prospect.

If you don’t have money but you have potential and you’re attractive then you’re both a short term and long term prospect.

But this is assuming that the women in question are within the same tax bracket.

Tat-Rat · 2022-01-07T14:22:29+00:00

My wife makes a lot more money than I do and all is well in our home and bedroom. I’m not ashamed to admit that I’m basically a trophy husband on many levels, but as long as I keep going to the gym every day and destroying my endocrine system with PEDs I have no doubt that she will genuinely stay attracted to me regardless of how much or how little money I make.

Diddy_1978 · 2022-01-07T15:14:47+00:00

Basically you are saying that women don’t want a life partner who is lazy, doesn’t work, or doesn’t work enough, or works in a low skilled job, when they are themselves educated to a high level, working and as a consequence earning well? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 And the reason is that they want their partner to give them money, not that they want a relationship with an equal!? 😂

SilentFroggy · 2022-01-07T12:51:34+00:00

I don’t believe women fall in love with men with money.

wtknight · 2022-01-07T13:24:33+00:00

I don’t think that money necessarily determines female attraction. I doubt that Indiana Jones made great money as a college professor, but I’m sure that a guy like that in the real world could definitely attract women who earn more than he would (if Raiders of the Lost Ark were set in the present, of course).

miminothing · 2022-01-07T13:44:41+00:00

We are all biological software wired to make as many offspring as possible. Whatever helps your hypothetical babies live longer is likely to be appealing to you. So yeah, money, good health and clout are all going to be pretty appealing to most people…

Gerpstarg · 2022-01-07T14:33:03+00:00

I wish I could just be a pretty fuck boy for some below average looking girl with a nice job so she would buy me meals and pay my bills. Unfortunately, this is not what girls want, they only say that they dont mind it but in reality even an idea of that makes them scream and run away. They want a traditional man.

mc0079 · 2022-01-07T18:25:33+00:00

Most people date within their socio economic spheres. Jesus Christ. All these fucking copes people come up with to justify their shitty dating lives.

toasterchild · 2022-01-07T17:55:19+00:00

Women feel physically attracted to guys with less money all the time, they just tend to be more practical and decide physical attraction isn't enough for the long run. Most LTR fights are about money, why would you set yourself up for future money issues by settling down with someone who doesn't have their shit together?

AlienMoonSugar · 2022-01-07T18:47:43+00:00

As long as he ain’t tryna live off of me before he gets his shit together, I could care less if he makes more or less money. I just like paid bills and a sweet smile Yano? And halfway on the bills seems fair to me.

RPisacope · 2022-01-07T20:13:17+00:00

I think it has a lot more to do with class than with income itself, in the most general sense it is the white/blue collar divide and the fact that white collar women are heavily disincentivized to date blue collar men. The primary sign of this class distinction in the US is having or lacking a college degree, although there are some exceptions. It is still possible for a blue collar man to get a high income in some situations, but for women there is no real way to get above a working class income without a college degree and, by extension, joining the white collar class.

The problem with white collar woman/blue collar man relationships is that blue collar male culture emphasizes traits that are at best useless to white collar women, and at worst unattractive to them. Blue collar men are socialized to think that doing any sort of unpaid labor traditionally associated with household management (cleaning, cooking, shopping, laundry, childcare) is emasculating and therefore are usually both unskilled at it and actively resist doing it. Since this is work that people in white collar households expect to be done to a certain level, if the man refuses or cannot do it, it will either fall to the woman to do it or will need to be outsourced to a 3rd party (maid, nanny, etc). A lot of lower class male cultures also emphasize the dominance of men in the household and that any deviation from it is a direct reflection of the man's shortcomings, which is going to be even more unattractive to a high earning woman.

My experience has been that, within the white collar class bounds, woman are usually pretty willing to date a lower income as long as they are compatible in other ways and the man is not going to expect them to both support the family and do all of the household management work.

I think that, as women continue to increasingly out-perform men in higher education and the resulting high-paying careers, we will start to see more of a shift in lower-class attitudes with regards to expectations for men and household work.

Cauligoblin · 2022-01-07T22:16:40+00:00

My bf makes about half what I make but I probably will end up marrying him because he’s a good person

Also he’s an rn so half of what I make is stlll a lot

omegajelly200 · 2022-01-07T14:45:35+00:00

a western guy can get the optimal female genetic material from a woman who genuinely finds him attractive.

Sorry dude, but the most you're gonna get is a lower class Asian woman with that tactic, and no, she won't be content with marrying you for love. She will want your money, bad, not just for herself, but for her siblings, relatives, parents, grandparents, everyone. They are not takecareme types, they are takecareus

And since they tend to be from the lower classes, you can kiss economic contributions from her goodbye since she very unlikely will have usable working skills if you bring her to the West, as if she wasn't already barely employable back home.

And with the lopsided contributions to the household as with Western stay at home wives, comes ingratitude which is followed by resentment as the pampered and coddled wife becomes bored and blames the husband for the boredom.

This woman is likely to have vastly better genetics than whatever woman he's able to attract in the west

lol what. Stop romanticizing Asians ffs. We are just human beings too like everyone else.

What else you wanna say? That Asian women fuck their boyfriends/hubbies 10 times more? Sorry dudes but dead bedrooms are as much as a big problem here than anywhere else, if not even more.

Also protip: Asian girls don't like it if you fetishize their race / culture. Romance them because you love them, not their Asianness and certainly not because you hate your own race. They want to feel that even if they are born white or black you would still love and cherish them all the same.

Shredddz · 2022-01-07T12:17:44+00:00

Lol at conditioning. IT IS INESCAPABLE BIOLOGY. you can not change the hardware, only the software of the human mind.

gimpgirl555 · 2022-01-07T12:32:01+00:00

Whenever data is released it always seems to show a super-correlation between money and dating. Always, it seems, less money for the man correlates with less interest.

Yep. Plenty of surveys show a strong correlation between men's earnings and their likelihood of being married.

Also women are more likely to divorce unemployed men.

Because if that is true the old red pill trope of moving to the third world seems like an obvious choice for young guys because if money can be reliably turned into attraction that means that a western guy can get the optimal female genetic material from a woman who genuinely finds him attractive.

The bang for buck is better outside the West. I have compared myself. Thread theme: https://youtu.be/1wc-AQJ2MYo

So the only women in the west he has a shot with are in the bottom half, and many of them won't be attracted anyway.

He also faces rejection, alligators, and divorce rape.

tickledpic · 2022-01-07T12:16:08+00:00

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Of course not. Attraction has nothing to do with money, compatability for a relationship does! If you don't have money, women will fuck you but not date you.

When a woman seeks a man with money, it's for the sake of a relationship not for the sake of sex!

BennyHillThemeStops · 2022-01-07T13:15:15+00:00

If you make less money, you at the very least need an interesting job. I don't make much but my job is dangerous/interesting and some women find that attractive.

Going to the third world is easier because light features, taller height and exotic factor can make a guy who struggles with dating in the west into a Chad in SEA.

ashpr0ulx · 2022-01-07T14:22:00+00:00

depends on the woman, but i don’t find this to be broadly true. i know a lot of female breadwinners, and personally i was born into money- if i only dated men with more money than me i’d be alone forever.

Dazzling-Importance1 · 2022-01-07T15:22:16+00:00

It's also about flashing your money I know a guy who got a girl pregnant cause he was flashing he made 100k from crypto. He had no job. While he does have money his earning potential is up to the market. Yes he can alot in a short time with crypto or the stock market but he can also lose it all. The girl he was with had no job and the relationship was fresh. I got more than 100k easily and invested in multiple things but I don't flash my money like that cause I don't want a gold digger. If that leaves me single forever that's fine

holymotherofbunnies · 2022-01-07T18:45:03+00:00

Why would I want to create a family with a man who can't support one?

JacobMoogberg69 · 2022-01-07T12:10:03+00:00

If you have been conditioned since you were little girl to whore your sex for money and security, what do you expect would happen? This conditioning is so ubiquitous that we take it for immutable truth.

kblkbl165 · 2022-01-07T12:43:09+00:00

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_lexxxi_98 · 2022-01-07T14:27:47+00:00

Not at all. I went from dating someone who made nearly 200k a year to someone who made just under me. I thought both were equally attractive. Money impresses lazy people. I was talking to a guy after my ex and I broke up, and all he did was talk about the money he made it, and it became really obnoxious. I can understand you wanting someone who has a decent income for financial reasonings, but if it’s for attractiveness your priorities are in a weird place.

LUCKYMAZE · 2022-01-07T15:27:34+00:00

Do you feel less attraction if there's a super hot poor woman? there, women are the same. they surely do feel massive sexual attraction to an hot poor dude

Snoo_16536 · 2022-01-07T18:00:50+00:00

Yes! Post-college(about 25yrs and up), women prioritize MONEY over LOOKS.

she will always pick the higher earner even if he’s ugly over a lower earner but good looking man.

On the other hand,2 guys, similar incomes/same socioeconomic class, then she pick who’s more fun.

KikiYuyu · 2022-01-07T19:00:50+00:00

I feel like a lot of posts here make it seem like there's one type of attraction. Having money doesn't make you hotter, it just makes you more capable of providing better. Money means you get the things you want, you have less worries, you can have more fun, etc.

Women who end up dating rich men 20-30 years older than them aren't doing it out of attraction. It's purely opportunistic.

Hashashin_ · 2022-01-07T13:08:59+00:00

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Prize_Lies · 2022-01-07T15:18:56+00:00

Women want everything. Money without being a nerd, status, looks without caring how you look too much, funny, the guy to plan everything and make all the moves, etc, etc.

What women want is unrealistic and unless they compromise some they will never find a healthy relationship.

Academic_Snow_7680 · 2022-01-07T16:38:35+00:00

Based on what evidence?

Your claim is contrary to the research that shows that men have a much harder time being with a woman that out-earns them than women have being with a man that they out-earn.

Marriages where the woman out-earns the man are more likely to end in divorce.

Men that have a wife that out-earns them are more likely to cheat to make up for their bruised ego.

So your theory is simply incorrect.

The kind of woman that out-earns men is not more likely to be bothered by it, au contraire: the man is more likely to be bothered by it.

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outlawpotato · 2022-01-07T15:17:18+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmav517MQJc

flapperfemmefatale · 2022-01-07T15:42:33+00:00

I don't care how much he makes, so long as he's financially independent and doesn't expect me to support him.

_Woodrow_ · 2022-01-07T16:19:03+00:00

They struggle to find attraction to someone they don’t respect.

That covers everything, not just money.

If you are surprised by this or think it is unfair, I don’t know what to tell you.

modidlee · 2022-01-07T16:39:03+00:00

I’d say attraction has nothing to do with a man’s money. Money comes into play when women are looking for a longterm partner. But just because a man makes less money than her it doesn’t mean she’s not attracted to him. This is why women will get into relationship with a guy who makes less money but eventually break up with him. She was so attracted that she thought she could overlook the money factor. But eventually she gets to the point that it bothers her.

pnromney · 2022-01-07T16:56:36+00:00

Women that want to stop working should favor men who make more than they do or at least try to. Further, women who want the option to quit should try for the same. If men prioritized being stay at home dads, some women may decide they’re better matches for the ambitious careers they want to have.

My presumption is that more women than not that want to marry (not all women) plan to try to have the option to stay at home because it is the de facto responsibility for women in western culture. (I’m not saying anything is wrong with that.)

Small-Window711 · 2022-01-07T16:58:53+00:00

Yup... this bias totally explains the pop culture coinage of COUGAR

Btw /s.

But seriously... if you limit your question to similar age demographics... you might be able to argue it... but as a generalization? You clearly don't know "Mrs. Robinson" .

CursedLemon · 2022-01-07T19:13:38+00:00

I'm willing to bet that the evidence shows 80% of people are boring as fuck or otherwise just very pedestrian in the grand scheme of things and it takes other characteristics to make them initially appealing.

42nanaimobars · 2022-01-07T19:29:51+00:00

I don’t think that’s true. My sister is currently the breadwinner for her family.

DLtheGreat808 · 2022-01-07T20:26:17+00:00

Kind of sucks cause I don’t see woman disagreeing. Just excuses.

Stunning-Spirit5275 · 2022-01-07T20:27:47+00:00

Cost to benefit. A woman faces the risks and vulnerability of child bearing and child rearing. This is offset by selecting a mate with sufficient resources to accommodate for this, hence the evolution of hypergamy. Genetics however are a primary filter that establishes mate selection (all the resources in the world will not offset the cost of offspring that may not survive past infancy). Genetics and resources are not mutually exclusive but rather coupled. Hypergamy is a double filter.

Both TRP and TBP are wrong in this

ariablake69 · 2022-01-07T20:36:09+00:00

If you can’t find a partner in America, then yeah, feel free to look abroad. That visa is a good incentive for young women. Women want a provider/protector.

cbsepts · 2022-01-07T20:38:52+00:00

Money ALWAYS matters eventually.

madame_imane · 2022-01-07T21:13:07+00:00

there are a lot of things that make wealthy men more attractive other than the 💰💵

PlayfulLawyer · 2022-01-08T00:19:56+00:00

Of course I didn't see any news articles talking about men struggling with having to "date down" and finding "economically attractive" women

Women initiate most divorces and the number one cause for divorce is money issues, their studies that are shown that a man who is well-off is infinitely more likely to marry a woman not as well off as the other way around.

It is what it is, there is three p's to being a man, protect, provide, and procreate, men don't look at women to do the first two of those, that's just simple biology

FancyCocktailOlive · 2022-01-08T00:54:42+00:00

It’s always been like this in the West. Do you really believe peasants married noblewomen back in the day?

Not sure why you’d believe you’d get better genetics from a woman in a third world country. That’s a really racist thing to say.

TangeloEquivalent890 · 2022-01-08T01:01:11+00:00

my girlfriend always asks me for money and I say no and then she gets mad. I mean this relationship will go nowhere. I think she thinks I'm a beta that she can walk all over but I'm alpha so

2022-01-08T01:17:48+00:00

I'd go out on a limb and argue half the reason women date is to better their living standard.

2022-01-08T08:23:55+00:00

The only evidence you need is that the divorce rate shoots up significantly when the woman is the breadwinner.

Superfluous_Toast · 2022-01-08T22:36:00+00:00

I don't know if attraction is the right word. I certainly worry about it causing problems later down the line, life comes at you fast and everything is so expensive these days. Money troubles are also one of the major causes of divorce. Without two people holding up the household, living together can be very difficult.

bees-and-stuff · 2022-01-13T08:07:36+00:00

I think that you should just ask whatever woman you talk to her feelings because you know what I’m a woman and I could care less that my partner makes less as long as he’s happy and doing something. I know there are women with more strict standards, they want their partner to strive for a good paying job as they themselves will and I also know that there are women who like the whole being taken care of thing.

It’s going to be different levels of important for everyone which I believe you know but the issue with making all statements like the one above is that it allows you to assume the opinions of people rather then asking them. People will surprise you if you take the time to get to know them and I think projecting with data like this makes it a lot harder to see real individuals

RealNiceLady · 2022-02-12T00:49:49+00:00

januaryphilosopher · 2022-01-07T12:31:22+00:00

Is that because women want men to make more money than them so reject men who don't, men want women to make less money than them so reject women who don't, or a combination of both? There was a study posted here a while back that showed that men who made less money than their wives were more likely to cheat; the wives were not.

UnfurtletDawn · 2022-01-07T15:59:15+00:00

Maybe ya all should stop caring about money so much.

Both guys and girls. If you make what you spend you will always be broke. Save some money and there is no need to live in luxury house with sports car that will be used for grocery.

Like ya all saying you need to make this amount of money and this. Meanwhile where I live no one gives a fuck about how much anyone makes.

If your SMV or whatever correlates with your bank account you failed. The only type you will attract are people that want money.

crookedsummer2019 · 2022-01-07T13:33:52+00:00

Women are less likely to want to invest in a guy who is broke. When it comes to how much money they would prefer a potential partner to have, it ranges from close to her own salary to millionaire level. Of course, some preferences are completely unrealistic lol.

It really depends on the woman and ideally, sexual attraction plus attraction to what he has to offer is the best option.

Back in the day when women had little rights and opportunity to make their own money, it was pretty much only about how much money he has and how much he could provide for her. Now, sexual attraction is also considered.

So in a third world country a guy will have an easier time of landing a poor woman who is looking for someone to provide for her (and ideally take her back to the West) over someone with whom she would be sexually attracted to.

Just-Seaworthiness39 · 2022-01-07T14:33:58+00:00

I make more than 2x what my husband does. So I must be the outlier, yet again.

nikki1810 · 2022-01-07T16:03:46+00:00

Yes, a women that works and earns, will want to be with a man that works and earns. Not rocket science if you ask me.

YveisGrey · 2022-01-07T17:38:46+00:00

um no. Attractiveness has little to do with money and lot more to do with looks. I don't think women are actually attracted to men because of money but rather they are more likely to overlook not being so attracted to them if they have money. The sexual attraction itself is still quite visceral and based on the man's physical characteristics, his demeanor, his smell etc...

Complete-Temporary-6 · 2022-01-07T17:48:44+00:00

This entire post and all of the comments under it is why I'm just disinterested and playing the song and dance

Devourer_of_felines · 2022-01-07T17:50:47+00:00

Plenty of women literally visit prisons to fuck convicted criminals

So no

kyle_fall · 2022-01-07T18:33:13+00:00

In general, I think it's a fantastic option for a western man to look in SEA or South America in terms of permanently relocating his life.

Of course, you instantly jump up 2-3 SMV points when you go to a third-world country. Why be middle-class average in America/US/UK/Australia when you can be upper class in a country that's set up favorably for you?

I believe this is gonna become a HUGE point of contention in the next decade. When nerdy software engineers figure out that them having a tough time dating in New York turns into them being able to live in a villa and being a rich bachelor in Brazil then the world will change.

Physical-Ask9399 · 2022-01-07T18:45:32+00:00

Sugar dadying should be illegal. Not only is it wasting money on bitches, but also screws over all the males beneath you. Any money wasted by a sugar daddy should be additionally taxed from their income.

Title	Is it fair to say that the evidence shows that women find it difficult to feel attraction for a man with less money than her?
Author	czerdec
Upvotes	85
Comments	344
Date	January 7, 2022 12:07 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ry5zrz/is_it_fair_to_say_that_the_evidence_shows_that/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-it-fair-to-say-that-the-evidence-shows-that.1094165 https://theredarchive.com/post/1094165

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