Men (and women if applicable) who became successful with the opposite sex after being unsuccessful in their young to adult life, did it make you bitter, cynical, or spiteful towards the opposite sex?

theshadowbudd · 2022-06-20T05:43:06+00:00

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Ok_Individual · 2022-06-20T06:34:15+00:00

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Sad_Top1743 · 2022-06-20T06:35:32+00:00

Not bitter but definitely cynical.

My opinion of women is less now but it was far too high before so it’s kind of my fault. Their far more like men than I thought, with all the privileges that men don’t have in the dating market (and the added benefit of testosterone to aid in their endeavors with men)

I was around a lot of chads in college via sports and roommates. Seeing their experiences changed my entire view, if I hadn’t I might still be blue pilled.

Friedidli · 2022-06-20T05:06:49+00:00

Yup.

I have begun to defensively employ the standards they use against me.

Salary and job more important that any other criteria.

Opertunism vs opertunism.

wejaow · 2022-06-20T05:42:32+00:00

I realized that women are a lot more shallow than anyone would admit. Sheesh.

Gigamon2014 · 2022-06-20T08:00:19+00:00

Good question.

Yep. Definitely bitter and cynical. And I dare say a little spiteful too. Though I was never really unsuccessful, just didn't really try. And I got my finger out of my ass fairly young (22).

Two things seems to make a difference for me. Leaning out and escalating. I didn't read much specifically on seduction but I did read a lot about persuasive behaviour, body language and sales techniques (I worked in sales for 9 years). I think what bugged me was how effective leaning into my assholishness worked out for me.

I don't even think it's that the opposite sex being shallow is a problem. I'm more introverted and prefer the company of male friends. Shallow women actually works out in my favor. For me it was the denial of said behaviour that made the opposite sex insufferable. And I see the same behaviour here too. Even in this very thread, I think there is a certain kind of woman (who you find a lot on reddit) who utterly repulse me because of how transparent they are. I genuinely believe nothing of what I read here from female posters. I know it is utter horseshit. They're definitely women who buck the trend but they're never the ones claiming that they do.

What gets me about this sub in particular is a specific kind if behaviour from the female posters. Firstly. "Stacies" are hardly the problem because they don't post here and are attractive enough not to need to lie about thier desires. It's the "Beckies" that really irk me. The ones who talk out of both sides of their mouths. Who complain about men not trying hard enough when, a lot of the time, they date mediocre men themselves. Who then whine about men being shallow whilst desperately chasing every "Chad" whether they have a boyfriend or not. The real lives and behaviours of many of the female posters here would genuinely disgust and infuriate some of you. It was my experience in these early relationships with many of these women which probably shaped my negative perception more than my single teenage years ever did.

Urbanwitch666 · 2022-06-20T14:04:59+00:00

Women here with that experience - my teenage years and very early adult I was considered totally undatable. Autistic, overweight (not by much even, but enough to get called fat) - chubby face, big nose, a bit greasy and bad at grooming. I sadly and stupidly used to offer sex or affection out to guys (nice guys, might I add) in hopes it would lead to love and relationships. Naive, yes. It didn't work, got me a reputation at college and made me miserable. I never even dared to approach hot guys, I always went for gamers, stoners, similar outcasts and I may as well have just spat in my own face for the results it got me. Most boys would take me out on a date or two just to cop a feel or see how far I'd go then stop talking to me or just pretend nothing happened. Some guys at school actively turned me into a joke, asking me out as a prank or grabbing my butt as a dare.

For some bizzare reason, I didn't end up hating men. Yes shocking since every guy on ppd seems to hate those who reject them. I feel like there isn't justification for hatred of any gender, sexuality or race. I definitely did become less trusting and more wary though. I stopped automatically assuming that anyone was "a nice guy" or a nice girl either tbh. I became very disillusioned with dating but if anything I hated myself.

I started dieting, working out, found myself decent hobbies, learned more about how to dress myself in a both expressive and attractive way, learned better social skills and started spending less time online (I was a gamer and Internet forum geek) - in fact I started actively resenting my pc. Going outside and meeting new people often was absolutely the answer.

It's deffo easier for women to do this. But men have the power to self improve too.

TheGreatWhoreOfChina · 2022-06-20T08:24:15+00:00

I was 6’2 awkward, neurotic, broke, poorly groomed and skinny with a bunch of acne and nobody told me that being tall is an attraction trigger if maximized until a year ago lol.

Been in the gym for 5/6 years now, been to therapy, have a good job and make good money, have a trendy haircut and I’m socially a lot more outgoing and extroverted and it was night and day lol.

It was weird to witness how dramatically different women treat you just for being tall, charismatic and in shape. Even when I was negative balance broke, beautiful women were sexually interested and all I was in shape and interesting and that’s something I still recommend if you all you want is sex, I genuinely believe that you don’t need money to get laid. You might have a retention problem because you’re broke but you’ll have too many options to care.

You need to be making a lot money or show the ambition and the incremental results that you’ll eventually make money overtime, if you want a relationship from high value woman. Kevin Samuels and Fresh & Fit connected a lot of those dots for me and now I’m money and status focused. I want to maximize everything lol.

But to answer your last question, I was more so happy with the having options I never thought I’d have, than angry or bitter at women’s menial reasons for being interested in me sexually. Conversely as a man, our criteria is, is she attractive and is she interested, so I don’t judge lol.

Barely-moral · 2022-06-20T14:56:03+00:00

did it make you bitter, cynical, or spiteful towards the opposite sex?

It made me realize that women don't care about me but they care a lot about the benefits I can provide for them. So I would say it made me at least cynical.

Since women only care about said benefits and being able to provide those is something that took/takes years of time, effort and pain I no longer consider relationships that don't bring enough to compensate for the price I have to pay to be considered a viable partner.

Did your opinions of the opposite sex get worse or change once you found (out by real life experience first hand) what makes the opposite sex attracted to you?

Yes of course. I assumed that women were able to love their male partners in the same way I love my female partner. I was mistaken. The way they love is conditional, shallow and fickle. It is waaay better than being unloved.

What revelation inspired you to change yourself to be more attractive to the opposite sex?

I realized that being an incel was making me suicidal and I had to become attractive and get a partner before I decided that a rope was a better alternative than continued existence.

learn2earn89 · 2022-06-20T06:25:45+00:00

This isn’t exclusive to men. I lost a bit of weight and groomed myself a bit more in my late 20s. The single ugly guys who pined for Stacy back in the day were now asking my friend about me. I pretty much told all of them to fuck off by ignoring their friend requests and dms. They can have their Stacy dreams and leave me out of it.

No-Priority7869 · 2022-06-20T15:08:28+00:00

My opinions of women lowered after I did the post-divorce 30s weight loss/appearance maintenance. Early 30s is desperate-to-get-married age where I lived and I was a hot prospect for a little bit because I didn’t have any kids or baby mama bullshit to worry about, and I worked in software dev so they all thought I had Zuckerberg money.

Women my age were utterly shameless in their selfishness, branch swinging, and use of sex for mind and asset control. The capacity for denial and hypocrisy is unfathomable. I went out one night with a group of random women I barely knew. I discovered the casual sex underworld and learned that a significant percentage of women have tons of casual sex. They just compartmentalize it so hard that it’s like a split personality; denial of that side of their life doesn’t feel like lying to them. As long as women don’t feel like they’re lying, the actual truth is irrelevant to them.

They have no ethical issues with saying that they aren’t that type of girl to men they think aren’t that kind of man. If they think you’re a casual sex kind of guy for them, they reveal their inner slut. If they think you’re beta Billy and your wallet can be hooked by love and partnership they show you a different personality entirely.

You never see the true personality of a woman when you come into their life through OLD or otherwise as strictly a dating prospect. You are only a potential human being to them when you come in on those channels and they curate their exposed personality traits on a per channel and per objective basis. If they decide you’d make a good [whatever they’re looking for in that channel] then you get to be treated like a person.

THAT is what’s really made me bitter. Womens’ utter lack of integrity, honesty, and honor in the sphere of romance.

To women on OLD, men are just housewares and accessories to be shopped for. And now that’s the only place anyone looks.

daniell61 · 2022-06-20T14:50:18+00:00

What inspired me to change mysef?

My first time being intimate took less than 24 hours for her to cheat on me with her sisters fiance of ~4 years....

after that I became a gym bro for a while and dropped around 50 ish pounds and bulked a bit and settled to go back to school and get physically fit!

Got tired of being shafted. now I'm with a lovely woman who I could see myself marrying even if we have our problems we're slowly working through. communication is definitely key.

I hit the gym and put on muscle but didn't use any juice/aids other than thermogenic for a mild boost in weight drop...I also got therapy/councilling to help work through some personal issues and trauma as well as made skin car/hair car and self care a routine part of my life which helped massively.

My SO is attracted to men that can care for themselves and communicate appropriately.

My real world shocker of needing to change was being cheated on and realizing that what I thought love was, was fake and twisted

My opinion regarding most of the opposite gender (Women) was basically take what your female friends say to do and do the opposite....Surprisingly effective

-Ivar-TheBoneless · 2022-06-20T05:27:01+00:00

Bitter, because now I have a bunch of post wall used up chicks expecting me to be their beta bucks.

trippingfingers · 2022-06-20T05:11:45+00:00

I didn't make a change, I just got lucky with someone who was patient enough with me for me to realize that I'd been botching it and/or missing signals from others for years.

CptKillsteal · 2022-06-20T08:18:48+00:00

What revelation inspired you to change yourself to be more attractive to the opposite sex?

My second growth spurt (age 16-19) making me go from shortest (<1,50m) to tallest (1,93m) in class. That changed everything to begin with.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-06-20T20:16:38+00:00

Definitely. Made me realize that what women say they want and what they actually want are two entirely different things.

The more sexually direct and less available you are, the more attracted women are to you.
Importance of personality is overstated; it doesn't matter whatsoever until there's physical attraction, and how how attracted a girl is to you dictates how likable and funny she finds you.
Romantic love is conditional, women love you for what you add to their life, and genuine love is exceptionally rare from a women (cue initiating 80% of divorces)
Opening up to a woman is the quickest way for her to lose respect and attraction to you.
Being nice and respectful are not things women value until they are older, jaded, and looking for a billy bux to settle down with. Notice how many women chose men who end up being deadbeat dads, verbally abusive, physically abusive. Theres a literal former crips gang member who served time in prison who become rich and famous because he's attractive.
Do not ever take dating advice from women under any circumstances. They will gaslight you about things that aren't relevant to your struggles and throw out empty platitudes like "just be yourself"

wtffellification · 2022-06-20T12:51:39+00:00

I took too much psychedelic mushrooms once and in those few hours went through years-worth of therapy (it wasn't pleasant)... and when I came back, I wasn't such a neurotic little bitch anymore. and women seem to like me more for it

Still, no woman has ever jumped into my lap though, so I'm not sure whether that would really constitute success

badgersonice · 2022-06-20T17:36:22+00:00

I had no success at all as a young woman. I was told my whole life to be patient and wait and someday men would definitely like me and ask me out and I’d get swept off my feet. And what actually happened was basically nothing. I was sort of ok with it, since dating wasn’t my top priority (thank goodness), but it definitely made me feel like a profound looser that nobody wanted me.

I finally decided around 30 that I would have it initiate and be proactive at every stage of dating if I was ever even going to have a chance. (I also finally broke down and nuked my acne with accutabe in my late 20s). I did try being proactive, and I got really lucky and found someone I really love. So I guess I’m successful.

But the result of all this is that I really am insecure. I’ll never be able to believe I’m attractive, and I’ll probably always be cynical about having been such a failure as a woman.

melody_of_ · 2022-06-20T07:25:23+00:00

I was very socially isolated from elementary up until high school and by that point I had to play catch up at unsustainable rates. This didnt stop in highschool and transitioned into college, I managed to maintain somewhat of a social life but it was always a challenge and a frustration.

I had one relationship which I got pressured into, but didn't have mutual feelings for. The girl I was with was a good person but she gave me way to much power and control over her. I didn't like that ,we discussed it but nothing much came of that, so I asked if we could return to being friends. She was upset at first but nothing major changed when we returned to being friends. Still are actually.

I realized how amazing it felt to be loved and romantically involved. I tried to date again, Nothing not a single bite. I became bitter seeing all the women around me participating in that world. I felt very locked out of. I eventually went to live abroad for a time and came back and went to university. I struggled identically there but finnaly someone did bite. I instantly fell in love I really enjoyed their company. But they were abusive and unstable. The next woman was even more so. They were violent I wont elaborate further on that.

The last relationship was so horrible that I became convinced that self improvement was an issue of life or death I could either improve myself or the next person I ended up with faithful as the tides would be more unstable then the last. And the next Woman I ended up with might be So I did the one thing most blue pillars will deny the efficacy of till the cows come home.

I "gym-maxed" as the black pillers put it.

It worked it worked instantly. I wish I could tell you a story about how it made me more confident and loving and that attracted more women but the reality is I became more bitter and hateful as all walks of women treated me *I m m e n s e l y * as I continued to sculpt myself. Suddenly my personality became the bee's knees.

Most of are flaws exist as much as we are not desired. I've noticed.

So yea I definitely feel very spiteful that I had to endure all of that trauma just to come to the realization that any redpiller could of told me day one. Act on it and after years of busting my ass have access to what women are given as a birth right. But it also allows me to give other men more compassion. Because like it or not compared to the average hetero amab, I'm one of the *lucky ones *.

I do have a sense of pride I earned this to some degree. Though I will never discount the natural advantages I was given compared to other men and will be grateful for them.

Nothing is fully earned. Some people are just given much more than others.

edjohn88 · 2022-06-20T14:14:48+00:00

If anything RP insight removed any resentment I had towards the women who rejected me. Immediately it was obvious why they were motivated to avoid me back then, and I never blame someone for acting in their own best interest within reason.

SmakeTalk · 2022-06-20T17:13:00+00:00

Nope, actually did the opposite. My opinions of women changed for the better after since I realized a lot (but not all, of course) of the reasons for me having a poor track record were with how I treated myself and others.

Timeline: single and bitter from about 20-26, successful since then (now 32)

After effectively getting rehabilitated by an ex who showed me how to take care of myself, and doing my own work on how I treat other people, I became a far less bitter and entitled version of myself. I stopped looking at women as objectives and saw them more as full people and I've been immensely better off since then mentally and emotionally.

Then after we broke up my confidence and comfort with myself she helped me build led to way more women showing interest in me, or at least being less repulsed by my interest in them. I also became far more comfortable being platonic friends with women and they've been instrumental in helping me become a more well-rounded man.

Really I just learned that how most women (some are just shitty, like some men) reacted to me was a reflection of how I treated myself. I also learned not to take it so hard if someone I like doesn't like me back since I trust that I'll have a chance with someone else sooner or later.

While there are of course shitty people out there who have tried making me feel bad I know that, like myself, how they make someone else feel is a projection.

Note: my ex should not have had to rehabilitate me, not proud that it took someone spending over a year on me for me to just be less of a shithead. She's engaged now to a wonderful guy and I'm very stoked for them.

catniagara · 2022-06-20T17:44:22+00:00

I think to do that you have to buy into the ideology. I was a fat kid until junior year I lost a ton of weight, worked as a model etc. I gained a lot of perspective about people and learned that a lot of people, male and female, are totally full of themselves and completely deluded. The people who made fun of the way I looked didn’t look any certain way. If they had it would have at least made some sense. Like my baseball star brother making fun of me for being a loser who can’t catch a ball or run makes as much sense as me making fun of his math skills. And the math club making fun of mine.

But there were guys that were bigger than me making fun of ME for being fat then asking me out when I lost weight because they thought they were just SUPER hot and I FINALLY deserved them when I lost weight. Delusional. Full out.

To be bitter, or even to date them, I’d have to share their delusion. I’d have to be very obsessed with myself, not in a positive way, and think everything that happens is about me, how great or shitty or whatever I think I am. And never really think about others as people at all. That’s how it was when I was always alone. Nobody talked to me so I just made up stories about them.

Having “social lube” to get to know people has actually been a big help in feeling less bitter and angry, because I’m no longer “fat” or “ugly” so I’m now able to see that when someone doesn’t like me it usually has more to do with them.

Could have saved myself some time and a lot of hospital visits by figuring that out in the first place.

just_a_place · 2022-06-20T18:10:33+00:00

I am having the complete opposite experience.

I started off being very successful with girls but as I am getting older and dating a lot more I am becoming bitter, cynical, and kinda spiteful towards women because it turns out they are not all that wonderful that men make them out to be. There is only so much I can ignore, so much i can put up with and especially the hypocrisy before resentment and anger starts to sneak in.

It's like the more experience and the deeper understanding I have about women the more bitter, cynical, and angry I get. The more I know them the more I resent them.

doggiedoc2004 · 2022-06-20T18:14:41+00:00

I was a fat kid and young adult. I got up to 249 lbs at my highest at the age of 25, 5’1 female in grad school. I finally hit rock bottom. Joined my college gym and finally got a better handle on eating (lower carb high protein lower calorie). Over my fat life, I had terribly low bodily self esteem and had some hook ups were I was used. A few decent boyfriends of lower socioeconomic status, lower career goals and looks in low to average range.

Once I began my weight loss journey and started my career, I was able to date better and better men. It was inversely proportional to my weight loss and proportional to investment in myself and my career. This culminated marrying my husband of almost 15 years now who is a 9/10, career minded egalitarian amazing father and partner.

I became more interested in the evolutionary aspects around human mating as I observed myself and my choices and opportunities change as I looked better and presented a better package to my prospective partners. (I already had a heavy background in sociobiology.)

So to answer your original question, as a female who leveled up by about 5 points out of ten it really just made me fascinated. It also makes me less sympathetic to people who do not max out their potential. A 5’5 dude will never be taller but he can max everything else. I know plenty of short, educated, fit dudes with hot wives with their own professional careers.

Jeetuprime · 2022-06-20T10:08:48+00:00

It made me a realist I was on the larger side as a kid but I didn’t like others who were on a larger side. I took up Muay Thai and got into shape but I didn’t resent people, I just figured I need to bring a few things to the table. Being fat definitely trained me automatically into becoming charming and once fit, the two went nicely together. It’s impossible to hate an entire section of society and judge them since sex and relations are really a privilege.

-passepar2t- · 2022-06-20T07:43:08+00:00

I was spiteful when unsuccessful and became less spiteful with success.

Willow-girl · 2022-06-20T10:25:38+00:00

What revelation inspired you to change yourself to be more attractive to the opposite sex?

Honestly, it was seeing the movie "Grease" when I was about 11. At the end of the movie, the female lead character transforms herself from a prim and proper wallflower to a real knockout. Being a shy, geeky bookworm myself, this resonated for me, lol.

It did not make me resent others as I realized the problem had been with me.

Short-Fingers · 2022-06-20T19:57:58+00:00

I (27 yo women) was very unsuccessful with guys during my teenage years and most of my 20ies. This had several reasons first of I was simply a grey mouse and no one rembered me, i remember that at parties I usually had to introduce myself multiple times bc they couldn’t remember my name. I was always standing next to my friends who magically gotten into the dating game while I was left out. I really hated myself, thought I am the ugliest and most disgusting person in the world and that no one will ever love me or find me attractive. I became really scared of men bc I had a few experiences where men called my ugly and laughed about me and so I thought it’s safer to stay away from them and not risk being humiliated. Over the years I have realised that what makes someone attractive is confidence and self worth, it makes you dare more, it allows you to be more vulnerable and ultimately put yourself out there. I am still not very successful, I am terrible at flirting but here and then I put myself out there and most of the time it was a nice encounter. But most important: being kinder to myself has made me more kinder to people around me

orange_glasse · 2022-06-20T20:18:34+00:00

Tbh it was going to therapy and getting comfortable with who I was and the actual people I like. Dropped toxic people etc etc

Maluassis · 2022-06-20T21:04:10+00:00

As a woc I am definitely cynical with the amount of attention I get now in my early twenties. I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood and was always the ugliest girl in the friend group, or the one the guys were not even trying to hit on. And all of a sudden after I turned 19 it became kind of ridiculous the amount of attention I get. As cynical as I am about it though, it made me the opposite of bitter. I know how it feels to feel undesired or feeling like it’s not even worth to shoot your shot, so I always talk to anyone who approaches me as a human being with dignity and have at least a conversation or coffee before turning them down if I am not interested or whatever.

IWillKeepYourSecret · 2022-06-20T14:39:17+00:00

I don't want to necessarily blame it on one specific gender. While I wasn't successful with the opposite sex, I also wasn't successful with the same sex, even if just on a platonic front.

Until I changed myself, of course. Success in one area came hand in hand with the other, and the less I was me, the more people liked me. I could've gone on an anger streak about how the men that fell for me were shallow pigs that only wanted this or that, but it would make no sense for me.

Humans are inherently shallow and selfish. They want the best for themselves, and I very much wasn't the best. Neither men nor women were to blame for the fact that I wasn't enough; it wasn't their problem. Their world didn't change for the worse.

As for the revelation that drove me to change: I hated myself. I wanted to be liked so that I'd feel validated and stop hating myself. People like me now. I still hate myself.

sunkized · 2022-06-20T16:12:42+00:00

The attention is hard to get use to. Having people tell me I only feel a certain way because I'm not ugly blows my mind. I was bullied for my looks growing up, but grew into my 55 inch screen forehead I guess.

SUBLlMlTY · 2022-06-20T17:56:23+00:00

being spiteful towards large quantities of animals gives them entirely too much status in my eyes.

wtknight · 2022-06-20T12:45:34+00:00

I was a late bloomer. It did not make me negative and spiteful towards women at all. It made me happy that I figured out women and less anxious around them as a result, so it improved my relations with them. I never attributed my lack of success with women to them. I always realized that it was my own anxieties and faults.

amarghir1234 · 2022-06-20T05:45:37+00:00

Definitely cynical but not bitter because there is an understanding that their behaviour is driven by their nature as women. I don't expect to be loved, I demand to be respected though. I won't ever love a woman because to do that is doing an unjustice to myself. They are not worthy of that. Only my children are. The main purpose of a woman for a man is sex. The rest is more liability than asset. The feminists won't like it but its true.

sarkington · 2022-06-20T05:08:36+00:00

No, because I was a self-absorbed antisocial negative dumbass wallflower and deserved failure

Let me repeat: I was the problem

And someone thankfully gave a “reasons you suck” speech, albeit not to my face

CocoBabeNYC · 2022-06-20T10:57:57+00:00

Nope. If anything I had to stop blaming women for everything and understand that it was up to me. It wasn't their fault that my parents had raised me to be wimp. It's not womens fault I was an excuser. If you are blaming women for that, you are barking up the wrong tree. It's no different than fat women shouting that men who don't want them are pigs and can't appreciate "real women".

ohheyhi99 · 2022-06-20T05:19:37+00:00

I went to an all boys school, had limited socialisation with girls, and was pretty painfully shy. I was pretty much convinced that I was an unlovable freak, and women would only even view me as a friend at best.

Then one day in my last year of high school, a friend mentioned that his cousin had seen a photo of me and said something along the lines of “who’s your friend? He’s kinda cute.”

That gave me just enough confidence to start talking to girls I met through inter-school sport about things other than sport. I was stammering like a spaz and was really awkward. I eventually asked one out

She said no. (Fair play Jane - I was being super weird).

Surprisingly, though it was embarrassing, the world didn’t end. No one laughed at me. I was not made a pariah.

I got better at talking to girls; though I still thought they were deeply mysterious and wonderful creatures. A couple of them even said yes to going on dates. A couple even seemed kinda enthusiastic about me and agreed to be my girlfriend.

After a couple of years of hanging out with women, they stopped being such mysterious creatures. They weren’t these arcane sex puzzles to try to figure out.

They were just people with wants and needs.

If anything frustrates me about this sub, it’s the number of dudes who seem to think that women are alternately malfunctioning biological sex robots or daemonic succubi trying to steal your precious bodily fluids.

sweetestpineapple · 2022-06-20T09:54:36+00:00

Honestly yeah but I’m bitter toward everyone in general about this. The way I was treated because of my looks during my formative years was shitty. I’m angry that years of being called ugly for my body proportions and race is invalidated by anyone who hasn’t been in my exact situation. And knowing they’re still thinking it has made my anxiety and paranoia issues much worse. I’m not even successful now, I’m just an adult who has access to the internet and have met people through apps, and rarely in person. Putting effort into my appearance isn’t to look attractive, which I know isn’t possible, it’s to just minimize the chance of being harassed in public. But an attractive or even average woman can wear baggy sweats and no makeup in public and automatically be considered far better looking than me. It’s not their fault, but it’s also not fair.

2022-06-20T13:18:46+00:00

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Yokowi · 2022-06-20T11:55:12+00:00

Not at all,why tf should it? 🤣 I have way more important stuff to take care off,than carry the burden of other people's decision 😅 No revelation or what not necessary either,being unwanted and bullied made me sad,so I changed it. It's really not a rocket science.

bluestjuice · 2022-06-20T14:11:22+00:00

No, not at all. If anything growing up and having more romantic and sexual success makes me feel more compassionate towards the younger versions of myself, and the young men who were equally clueless. We were all sort of stumbling in the dark and too afraid of looking foolish to take risks.

I do have way less tolerance for predatory or actively harmful behavior now too, of course. And I have the knowledge to be able to identify it much more readily.

Obvious-Rise9199 · 2022-06-20T16:11:35+00:00

I would say it makes me spiteful to "the wrong kind of woman". I used to have more patience thinking this might be my only chance of getting laid. Instead, I immediately see a victim, entitled or an ungrateful mentality and run away. No more famine thoughts for me. I'd rather be alone than be with that kind of person.

Flintblood · 2022-06-20T20:47:01+00:00

I started out somewhat above average in high school and then got more nerdy and slightly overweight in my 20s, then got back in shape and paid attention to fashion more in my mid to late 30s and turned my game around again.

I have been happy for the results but I noticed that the younger women cared less about my career path so long as I was doing something - while I had a 40 year old just kind of stop responding after revealing I make just over 6 figures - when I think she’s been with guys making multiple 6 figures.

I’m not bitter about my experience because I expect to be held accountable for my efforts. However, I post here a lot against what I perceived to be the gaslighting aimed at me and other men to placate them to accept being settled for as the nice support guy instead of the man she desires and would actually miss one day.

nevertoooldtodance · 2022-06-20T10:47:16+00:00

Having to move locations to be taken seriously by men I do think gave me a lower opinion of a certain kind of man, yes.

Like, basically social status means a lot more to men than they let on, a lot of them will reject a perfectly nice girl, even one they're attracted to, if she's not a trophy he can show off and be proud to be seen with. And I also think a lot of the things they complain about are projection. For instance: alpha fucks beta bucks? I've had a male friend when I lived in the suburbs straight up tell me to my face that he was looking to find a wife because his hair was starting to thin and he had to find her before he went completely bald.

I am trying to be sympathetic to men's so-called dating struggles but it's challenging sometimes when you remember how things were before the apps came along and they started getting older and panicking.

Left-Requirement9267 · 2022-06-20T10:22:36+00:00

If you were at Some point desperate = you will always be desperate to some degree

Short-Fingers · 2022-06-20T14:52:48+00:00

Woman here. I was always told to go for the nice guy who gets you flowers etc so I did . he was 12 years older and further ahead in his career than I as I met him just as I was starting my professional life.

This person used my age and lack of life and professional experience to belittle me. They made me feel bad for making less money when in fact I was just where I needed to be for my age.

At some point, I fell Ill. I developed a severe form of IBS -C where I could not go to the bathroom on my own, my quality of life suffered and I put on weight (like 10 pounds but still not overweight) This person stopped having sex with me and I spent 2/4 years with this person in a sexless relationship.

I moved up in my career and started making more money and left.

This is why I say the red pill is bullshit. Men DO care about a woman’s career and how much money they make. They want us to make less than them but it’s only so they can have the upper hand in making us feel inferior. They won’t say “I wish you made more money/had a better job” but they’ll take little digs at you when you happen to mention you’re low on funds or need to save for a major expense. It’s the micro expressions - the huffing and puffing the eye rolling the awkward silence that kills you overtime.

And no it did not make me spiteful towards men no but I do believe that this society is no longer meant for a single income and that it’s in your best interest whether male or female to find a partner that is within 30k+/- income than you. (for example if you make 60k, you can date in the 30k-90k range) After all, aside from infidelity finances are one of the main reasons for divorce.

Sleepypiven · 2022-06-20T05:50:46+00:00

It’s not my case but I can talk about my little brother since we had a lot of debate on this subject. My English is bad but let’s do it.

We’re extremely close since we were child, he became a nerd because of me when we grew up.

He wasn’t ugly and i can say he was a good guy, a bit skinny but i can’t say I’m objective since I’m his sister. I know he had no succes with others women at this point and we talked a lot about it since we had a rule to not hide anything from each other.

He started looking for ways to improve himself and ask for my help. I don’t remember exactly what I told him but we started doing a bit of sport and I helped him choosing better clothes.

Years later we were going to the same university and we lived together, at some point he wanted to start going to the gym and he wanted me to come. I had nothing to lose so I agreed, but it’s at this moment that he became more attractive since nobody tried to approach him before that.

I remembered clearly that we had a lot of discussions about this. At first he was confused since no women cared about him before... And this is where he started to become bitter. It literally destroyed him...To make it short we had couple of fights at this subject because in summary he didn’t change inside only outside and he was confused that now some women loved him. He complained that women didn’t really care about him. I told him that it wasn’t true since I was here for him.

But he felt like most people lied to him about being himself would be enough to find someone. He talked about some strategies that people could have teach him years ago that work instead of lying. This is the point where I got really mad at him since it sounded like manipulatives behaviours and at the same time It was the first time i saw him depressed for a long time, years.

It was the point where he became toxic and start making generalizations about women. After a lot of debates and discussions with me he came back to his senses and apologized in the end.

He is not dating anymore and he said multiples times that he gave up...I still tell him that there are goods women’s out here.

He bought a dog one year ago and he doesn’t seem to date ... I just found this situation sad.

Don’t give up there is someone for you

flamingoinghome · 2022-06-20T12:37:49+00:00

No?

Look, here's the thing, when I was an awkward, shy, self-defeating, perpetually anxious teenage girl, I didn't like myself. I changed a lot about me, consciously, with a lot of effort, as much to become a person I liked and respected as to become datable.

It didn't come naturally. But I did it. And I felt happier and healthier for it. It was hard. But things worth doing often are.

If I didn't like the person I was, why should I expect someone else to?

NoOne_143 · 2022-06-20T04:58:37+00:00

Comment so i can come back later.

SignalThanks6766 · 2022-06-20T07:40:44+00:00

No. I knew I was unattractive when I was younger. It did not surprise me men weren’t interested. I still managed to get a boyfriend though, who was similarly not traditionally attractive (I found him attractive but my family/friends often commented that he was ugly and fat).

When I had my glow up, the last year of my relationship with my ex, it was actually a result of him continually telling me how disgusting I was. That I was fat, my hair was a mess, my clothes were unflattering, I didn’t know how to do makeup etc.

To make him happy, I put an insane amount of effort into my appearance. I went days without eating. I spent money I didn’t have on clothes and haircuts. I broke up with him eventually as his abusive behaviour didn’t stop when I got hot. If anything it got worse.

When I became single again, the increase in male attention was absolutely baffling to me. Mainly cause my self esteem was through the floor. My opinions on men didn’t change. I knew men liked attractive looking women who take care of themselves. Why would I be surprised that when I got better looking, I got more interest?

Nk-O · 2022-06-20T13:01:42+00:00

did it make you bitter, cynical, or spiteful towards the opposite sex

No absolutely not. It's the exact opposite in fact. The Red Pill really helped me understand and accept reality. Everything starts to feel easier, I can act more casual, more real (not fake/manipulated). Also I bring women more value as I understand better (no improper communication which leads to misunderstanding/frustration on both sides, taking lead / adressing things in a direct way which is being seen positively etc.)

Before "I understood", I was rather extremly frustrated about the fact that the "Blue Pill" blatantly lied to me (get women with: good looking, good money/job, be a nice guy, "respect women" (put them on a pedestal), "be a feminist", and what not..). Frustration because, although I concentrated 15 years on "maximizing" these attributes, success was very, very modest. At the same time "stupid men with dark triad characteristics" f'ed themselves through world history. At the end of the story one only can be frustrated with oneself, as oneself was the person who decided to act according to this bad and misleading information.

Did your opinions of the opposite sex get worse or change once you found [..] what makes the opposite sex attracted to you?

It's not a question of getting better or worse, I mean how should I have a "good or bad opinion about women" in general anyways? (like technically) There are women I made bad experiences with, and there are the ones I make good experiences with.

I would rather say, that my perception/understanding became better about the women/men dynamic which helps my personally a lot, because we all live together on this planet and some mutual understanding of how women generally speaking tend to act/communicate, what I really want and how that fits together is crucial to not turn that planet into hell.

bison5595 · 2022-06-21T00:27:38+00:00

I’m not bitter. More just frustrated. I was lied to by mostly women just telling me to be myself instead of taking action to make myself more attractive to women. I made decisions that I didn’t need to make and probably would be even further along in my career. Just be yourself is the most destructive advice you can give men and you can’t change my mind. If you want to be successful with women, you must take action and make it sustainable

AelfredRex · 2022-06-20T12:28:54+00:00

Why would you be angry? It's like you got the cake in front of you and are pissed off that it wasn't served sooner? Just enjoy the cake and know there's plenty of cake to follow.

Spiritual_Age_4992 · 2022-06-20T08:32:18+00:00

Did your opinions of the opposite sex get worse or change once you found (out by real life experience first hand) what makes the opposite sex attracted to you?

Yes.

But it's not really because of the "what makes them attracted part", it's WORSE.

Before I lost weight, I didn't matter. That I was too unattractive to date mattered. After I lost weight, I didn't matter. That I was attractive enough to date mattered.

I'm trying very hard to be happy single now.

What revelation inspired you to change yourself to be more attractive to the opposite sex?

Nothing changed. I'm a woman, we all wanna lose weight independent of being attracted to men. My main motivation were pretty clothes.

rosefaer · 2022-06-20T08:04:09+00:00

No not all wtf

spendgreens · 2022-06-20T20:01:09+00:00

Women won’t give me access to their bodies wahh wahhh 🥺

Specialist-Action-33 · 2022-06-20T11:17:20+00:00

Quite frankly, it made me all three. I would say that I am more aware now that I am older when it comes to the opposite sex. When I was in my late teens/early 20's, I guess you could say I was more ignorant and oblivious to a lot of things about women.

I realized a few things once I hit my 30's. For one, lack of social skills. Nowadays I can finally hold a convo and look a woman in the eyes when I talk. Couldn't do that years ago. I've been hitting the gym constantly to maintain my attractiveness. Nowadays when I hear women try to hate on me, I just laugh at then bc most of them are past the wall and fell off real hard, unlike way back when I let what they said get to me.

Also I see women in their 40's try to do stuff to get my attention, but I just give them the cold shoulder and watch them get pissed off. I realized if I don't give them free attention, they become super salty.

Also I became more aware when they try to sweet talk me to try to get something from me. That shit won't work anymore.

gladusgates · 2022-06-20T13:21:25+00:00

I would say it has made me quite selfish and to a large extent power-drunk. After taking the red pill, it just connected all the dots for me. It was like the proverbial rubix cube of knowledge was just completed one day. Ever since, what I feel is not spite, anger, frustration or anything like that. I’m just jaded to some extent, not bitter.

I will fornicate to my heart’s content and no feminist, PPD woman or FDSer can stop me.

redback-spider · 2022-06-20T13:29:48+00:00

Not bitter just realistic, I would even say less bitter in a way, because I thought I have to blue-pill lie to pretent to basicaly simp for women to get them to sleep with me.

Now I know that I mostly can be the ugliest pure me, threat them at least to some degree like in my darkest fantasies and they not only are ok with it but prefer it over the flower-sex.

I am bitter that society lied to me about that, but not about the women. I also finaly understood (even most seem to got the opposite message from evolutionary biology / red pill) that women don't (nearly) exclusivly care about the looks of a man (especially outside of height), while I just projected my male hyperfocus on looks on women which as overweight guy made me have zero confidence because I don't think outside my height I look very good.

That said while I was not completely blind to, but the level women judge men on his economic status I was not aware.

But besides this 2 points where I underestimated one side and overestimated another, I did not get it in my head that being "assertive" or self confident itself is nearly more important than the other 2 points, and that you can't "loose" with it especially if you don't see dating success as meter for "winning". You can win by loosing, just by being amused and see yourself above especially rude women, because you know she got hurt, you hit a nerve.

I think some would see that as cynical, I would say I just became more confident and I don't take this stuff so serious and get my ego hurt by a rude women and would not make my self worth dependend on a female oppinion or worse my fears of what a women could think about me without even testing it.

But in a way you could say I get more "cynical" I just don't see women anymore that I see as attractive, so when I was young I put them on a pedestal and would not dared to ask them out, now they are (even I don't want that) just invisible to my eye.

figuringMylife · 2022-06-20T13:59:00+00:00

i did! i was an ugly duckling who didn’t care about boys or “stupid stuff” and i was a huge nerd. i always cared about being successful and smart more than pretty, feminine, family oriented. after highschool i started putting more effort into my looks, but i didn’t care until after college when i got my career. literally even though i was just overweight i was getting double takes because of how i was holding myself. also personalitymaxxing, socialmaxxing, and whatever. the men women want care about personality, behavior, and her being able to be social and cool. i’m still losing weight and trying to perfect my craft, but now i can get better LTRs i guess.

Educational_Soup8845 · 2022-06-20T12:38:40+00:00

None of those, if anything it made me feel better about myself. I was 6', 145lbs, skinny fat with long hair throughout high school and college. I didn't even talk to women cause I was scared. In med school, I decided enough was enough so I got a good haircut, got my diet in check, and started lifting. By the time I graduated, I had gained 30lbs, had a six pack and was getting a lot of attention from women. Made me realize women care about looks as much as we do but I'm not bitter or angry about it. I feel like I've earned the fact that women now find me attractive. Also I get it from an evolutionary perspective. Mating for women is dangerous, they can only do it with 1 man at a time so it is reasonable for them to go for the most attractive man they can get

Philosoferking · 2022-06-20T19:00:05+00:00

I grew up friendless and alone. Utterly fucked up with women, terrified of them my entire life.

Now I feel like I see "the truth." In my mind, it's all about ORGASMS!!!!

WOOO! Women want to cuuuuum! And most guys straight up, aren't capable.

And it's sad really. It's not hard. But it is hard, at the same time.

All this red pill shit. It's nothing to me now. It's all about pleasure. Women want pleasure too!

The money, the status, the clothes the job the social skills the self work you put in so bithces will date you. That shit is all secondary. A woman can't find a man whose decent in bed so they just go by secondary criteria like money and six pack abs or whatever.

I believe 100% most women will fuck nearly any man at the drop of a hat, should he prove to her that he is capable in the bedroom. The percentage of men like that though is extremely low.

I'm also assuming most guys just want sex. Most guys want to explore and play with many women before settling down with someone special. I think most guys ultimately want love. But first, we NEED to play the field a bit. And women do that all the time. These females out here FUCKING left right and center.

And men get angry, why is she fucking HIM but not me? Why is it that her "standards" don't apply to him, but do to me? Why is it that she makes me wait 3 weeks for sex but he got it interesting bathroom at the club they met at?

Because it's all about pleasure. Fucking feels great for women when the guy is capable.

But it's like, how to describe said capability?

Well, I met a few legit dudes who knew the way. And it's easy! They just use innuendo and such, to suggest to the girl how freaky they are.

Really. It's like some Bdsm shit. Women want you to throw her around in the bedroom as if you HATE her. Sometimes. Obviously not everyone is the same. But if you can attract and take home, the girl who needs to be hate fucked, well, you can handle any woman across the spectrum.

Dudes are still worrying about the red pill and their purpose and the money and all the bullshit.

Women just want to fucking CUM. If you don't know how to do it it's time to Google or something I don't know what to tell you.

These slits out here are fucking for real. And you don't see it because they hide it. Some girls are just traveling around fucking multiple guys in one day.

And any guy can be that guy too.

Like, men we want a woman who looks decent. Women want a guy who has some control and dominance. It doesn't have to be in every arena of life. It only needs to be in the bedroom.

All that said, I honestly love women. Nothing makes me feel bad anymore. Not even having to cultivate dominance. It's fun! Throwing a girl around in the bedroom is great.

There's no reason to be upset. Sex is great. I think most men are afraid of sex, truly. Most men's sexuality is half shut down. We don't have access to the entire array of sexuality.

Meanwhile women are fucking FREAKS out here. And men get upset about that because they feel inferior. If you're a man and you have zero freakiness I don't think you can have great experiences with women.

Sure you can manipulate them and pretend and show the money and the abs and the status. But it's nothing if you can't satisfy her fantasies in the bedroom. You'll always be second rate compared to that guy.

KoalaAccomplished395 · 2022-06-20T23:14:43+00:00

Nope, it made me happy. What kind of loser finds a loving relationship only to still whine about his dating life?

Maxarc · 2022-06-20T13:41:56+00:00

Depends on what you count as successful. I have a modest share of options but I'm picky AF and when it comes to most people: I'd rather be alone. This is exactly what my dad is like and I'm not sure if that's a good thing, but it sure as hell strips people of their power over me. I notice that the more socially capable I got, the less I care about outcomes and validation. It's quite liberating and chokes off resentment as well.

It didn't make me bitter or cynical. To the contrary, it made me like women more, because my relationships with them became more authentic and rewarding. If anything, it made me cynical towards a specific type of insecure man. There have been so many times in which guys snapped into jealous tilting mode when I got casually embraced in circles of women. The sorest of losers can't fathom I'm not here for the competition -- but to them it feels like I'm killing their chances in the rat race. The guys that are cool about it are capable of casually entering the conversation without coming off as dense.

The most frustrating thing about it is that I don't have a double agenda. Intimacy is a plus, but I care little about the outcomes because, for me, the interacting itself is a reward -- which paradoxically increases my options a fair bit. The more deprived a guy is of this attention, the less capable he is of understanding this perspective. They tend to come up with the weirdest shit to make sense of the situation. This is probably because I don't look like a prototypical womanizer. I'm tall, but very skinny, tired looking, broke and have weird interests like sound design and political philosophy. This probably confuses the living shit out of them. The mental gymnastics truly are a sight to behold. They either accuse me of having a double agenda (stripping the woman of any agency over the situation), or make up reasons to dehumanize or devalue the women I talk to. It really made me realize how patheticly dense some guys can be. It's also a great litmus test to measure someone's insecurity and gives you a detailed roadmap of how you can crawl under their skin if their insecurity makes your life needlessly complicated.

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Magnito-was-right · 2022-06-20T22:02:08+00:00

I was literally like the girl from She’s all that. I dressed in vintage comic book shirts and wore glasses. After high school I got a “cooler” wardrobe and contacts. I went from getting no attention from anyone, to attention from very attractive guys. Looks really are important and the image of being a cool person helps too.

Derman0524 · 2022-06-20T22:59:16+00:00

I’ve drastically improved with women over time. I’m 28 now but in the last 2 years where I started to try hard to care about myself, things changed for the better. Who would’ve thought that putting in effort in yourself would make things a lot better? I’m not even talking about working out or any of that. Simple stuff that anyone can like wearing form fitting clothes, being clean cut, have a modern hair style, smell good with a nice fragrance, have a skincare routine, etc. these factors elevated my game x100. The biggest change for me was just treating women like normal people. Far too often to men treat them like this unknown goddess and that gets in their way so in all fairness, my view changed mostly changed about men tbh and I found myself showing empathy with women way more. Dating sucks on both sides, no doubt about that. But fuck, if men tried ever so slightly and cared about the way they looked a little more, they’d do wonders for themselves but they constantly complain about mundane things that just aren’t true

kblkbl165 · 2022-06-21T00:53:31+00:00

Idk if I can say I was ever unsuccessful, I feel more like I went from an average experience to a successful experience. I used to be an invisible guy who dated invisible girls but in recent years I became much more demanding in regards to the women I hookup/date but I didn’t feel like my success rate decreased, on the contrary, I feel like having standards set me apart from other men and enabled me to get to women I wasn’t used to hanging out with.

Anyway, I’m a cynical optimist. I believe in true love but I also believe our culture conditions women to never engage in courtship in an equivalent way to men.

To put in simple terms, the kiss analogy: Men always have to go 70% of the way while most women only wait for the last 30%.

I make a conscious effort to only go as far as I see reciprocation.

If I ask a woman on a date, I expect her to ask me on a date, if she doesn’t I simply assume she’s not that interested and let it go. If for some reason she needs to miss on a date, I expect her to take initiative into scheduling a next date.

Currently I’m getting to know better a doctor and she’s just everything I could’ve asked for. She’s hard working, earns good money, doesn’t wait for me to message her, she explicitly shows her interest, she compliments me…basic things that should be naturally expected from a relationship between mutually interested parts but that simply isn’t true in most cases.

Dagenius1 · 2022-06-21T01:31:04+00:00

I was not popular with the ladies in HS. I was mid popular in college as an athlete but, and I’m about to date myself by using this phrase, I had no “game” so I couldn’t just go and meet ladies.

At 24 I figured it out my style and the best way for me to meet ladies. I worked on it…I worked on myself..went through epic amounts of rejection..but then learned to approached and meet women whenever and whoever I wanted. It changed my whole life.

I didn’t hate women. I did break a few hearts on purpose to get “revenge” on all those years when girls weren’t feeling me. I spent 24-31 being a player and enjoyed it. It was one of those things that if I knew it was this easy..I would have never struggled with women. I had to go through my own journey

Mostly I looked back on myself and saw what a WASTE of time it was to be unconfident. Confidence was the switch for me.

2022-06-25T22:08:59+00:00

Made me a better person on the outside, but worse on the inside.

Men (and women if applicable) who became successful with the opposite sex after being unsuccessful in their young to adult life, did it make you bitter, cynical, or spiteful towards the opposite sex?

Comments

4 makes me sad but I think at some point you have to try. It’s better to have tried and failed than to not try at all…I guess. Being loved is a fantastic feeling and I hope I can get that from a woman one day again. It’s just finding the right woman is the hardest part, almost impossible.