Does self improvement cause men to become resentful towards women?

Meme_Devil12388 · 2024-06-11T01:48:16+00:00

Yes. Happened to me. I’m undoubtedly going to be called a narcissist for thinking like this, but after “self improvement” all that really changed about me was that I was leaner with better muscle definition. I still felt like the same person, same “personality” and everything.

So when I started getting exponentially more romantic interest, I felt insulted. Because from my point of view, all I did was give myself superficial changes. My sense of self was too strong to feel like a different person just because I hit new bench press records, or whatever. Ultimately, I realized my personality is really worth only very little, and it’s why I’m now purple pill instead of blue pill.

Contrapuntobrowniano · 2024-06-11T03:02:10+00:00

Short answer, yes. While you're at it you see all these super stupid guys getting a lot of girls by literally existing in a specific way, which makes you feel pretty dumb and used when you have to do all that work just to get laid. On the flip side you probably are a better person when you finish that process, but admiration for women isn't exactly peaking at that point.

CraftyCooler · 2024-06-11T05:37:46+00:00

Maybe a bit cynical. I am into bigger girls - fat, tall, big hands, big feet, big boobs, wide shoulders - this is my type, for me such girls are above 10. But from objective perspective such women are not considered hot, and unsurprisingly they are into fit guys, women do not like fat guys, I was fit - so in their eyes I was more attractive and they were very happy that they are dating up. I knew that - but still it is a bit surprising how easy it is when you have advantage, comparing to how impossible it is when you don't. Really - dating is not complex, you do not have to make personality transplant to win nor be a super social guy, it's a numbers game and relative advantage game.

tritter211 · 2024-06-11T03:46:27+00:00

Definitely.

Resentment is a natural part of self improvement.

What is self improvement if not knowing how the world works and then finding out the stuff you HAVE to do to succeed is contrary to how you were raised?

Same applies to applying for jobs, workplace politics, real world politics, taxes, etc.

A lot of us were raised to be nice, told to be a gentleman, don't hit a woman at all costs etc etc etc but being a nice guy is the surefire way to dry up women's nether regions or be put in friendzone. Many clueless guys find out (AFC's as we call them), usually the hard way how female nature REALLY works. And it causes a huge jolt of reality stuffed into their faces almost immediately once they learn the truth.

Without forums like RP to ease your way into learning these hard truths, clueless guys simply can't handle learning how the real world works and because of this they lash out, which is why "nice guys" trope came into existence.

pg_throwaway · 2024-06-11T03:34:14+00:00

I've been fit much of my life but there have been two several year periods when I wasn't for some health reasons I won't get into.

Being fit always dramatically improved my dating pool, like night and day. When I'm at my most fit I'm nearly always the most popular person with women in any room I walk into.

So I guess I have not had the experience of "doing the work" and it having no impact on my dating life.

I feel like it's a bit weird that someone could go from obese to fit and see no change in their dating prospects. Yes, how much change might depend on other factors like you face, your personality / vibe / style, but to have zero impact seems strange.

Agile-Explanation263 · 2024-06-11T01:52:53+00:00

For me it led to acceptance that genuine desire and love are notbin the cards for me. It has also lead to menever trusting women in less of a "you're out to get me way" more of a "I will never believe you want me over a hypothetical or real stranger no matter what you do" theres benefits to this outside of protecting myself, like never embarrassingly thinking a woman likes me because she is kind/nice to me.

But when topics/dating advice like this comes up my anger is more pointedly at the person giving it, usually those types of people never believe there is a limit to self improvement to prop up thier own ego and keep thier addiction to hope and a Justworld fallacy.

The implication overall is that you need to self improve to be worthy of womens attraction inherently, no matter what your complaint is. She could have cheated on you and you get no empathy, just being told to be better. Which in my mind is realistic now, if you were a better partner that person wouldnt have cheated.

stats135 · 2024-06-11T03:23:24+00:00

Resentment comes from feeling that you've been wronged or lied to in some way. I don't believe I've been wronged or lied to about self improvement. The ones that lied to me are the "just be yourself" and "personality is what matters" BPers, the self improvement promoters did not lie to me at all.

Going to the gym, reading books, therapy, improving finances, career, "frame", improving social skills etc.

At the end of the day, I know relationships to be transactional. The list simply defines the terms of the transaction. As long as I get equivalent sexual value in return I have not qualms with it.

KayRay1994 · 2024-06-11T01:56:53+00:00

Speaking for myself, it helped a ton and i’ve seen consistent improvement yearly as i’m starting to get into 30.

That being said, while my very first motive to hit the gym was to get a girl’s attention, it evolved into a genuine love for exercise - then getting hobbies, therapy, reading, improving my finances (i don’t make crazy money, though i’m great at managing it), etc was all for myself. I did it because I found that I was happier doing all these things, even though I didn’t really start seeing results with women till 2ish years ago (i started working out at 24, im 30 now).

Some might say “oh that’s grim” but not really, way I see it, I started from such a low baseline that it was gonna take time. I knew next to nothing, didn’t know how to even take care of myself - I also had a ton of trauma to work through.

Self improve for yourself entirely, even if your initial motive is women it can’t remain your motivator because it’s unsustainable and you’d be due for a crash. Accept the fact that you must make yourself happy for the sake of living a better life then maybe things will start to get better and you won’t feel any resentment.

Weekly-Vacation-6929 · 2024-06-11T03:11:15+00:00

what makes me resentful is that I have to 'self-improve' to begin with, not that I don't care to shower or dress properly because I do take care of myself, but men are expected to be copies of 1 archetype to get laid. Women don't care about any uniqueness in looks or personality.

Its a slap in the face when i'm told to 'self-improve' since it indirectly implies I need to change my natural appearence which is not good enough for love.

TomRabbit67 · 2024-06-11T02:51:44+00:00

For a while it did, but then that resentment shifted toward the friends of both sexes who kept giving me that advice, because I realized it was just a hollow way of shutting me up. And that’s not to say self improvement isn’t a good thing, everyone should always being trying to live more healthy and learn new skills, but that’s the thing, these are just base level things you should already be doing as a human being. When someone starts prescribing it as advice on how to attract a partner, what they really mean is that they’re just tired of hearing you whine or ask them to hook you up with their friends, and they figure maybe if you go out and try something new you’ll meet someone on your own and not make your relationship problems something they have to hear about anymore.

Dense-Tell-6147 · 2024-06-11T02:15:47+00:00

By no means. Self improvement makes me feel better with myself first and foremost.

I love playing music and cycling on the mountains: learning a new difficult piece of music, or cycling my way up to an Alpine pass are some of the most rewarding experiences for me. Same goes for becoming a better version of myself.

And in my better version, I have attracted more women. Average in many cases, but I am no Paul Newman, so I can’t expect supermodels, but certainly like-minded, and also keen on self improvement.

DumbWordsmith · 2024-06-11T09:43:57+00:00

No, because I wouldn't bother with anyone who doesn't respect themselves. I'm not going to date a woman who treats her body like shit or lacks curiosity.

There's really nothing for me to be resentful about.

Aside from the fact that I'm not a particularly handsome dude, my main issue has always been distrust.

Barely-moral · 2024-06-11T02:21:39+00:00

Question for men For men who have struggled with dating and been told to self improve; Going to the gym, reading books, therapy, improving finances, career, "frame", improving social skills etc.

Done that.

Say you do all these things and much more. But after doing all this your access to quality women in the dating market is still non existent. Say you can only attract average women.

I only attract below average women. At least in any aspect that I care about.

Does this lead to resentment because the women you will date is very very unlikely to be into self improvement as much as you.

No resentment. Also I don't want a woman that i into self improvement. I hate "self improvement". I wouldn't wish it on my enemies. I don't want it in the woman I love.

Sure I do expect some basic behavior in return for all the pain I had to and have to go through to remain attractive but I do not expect self improvement.

for example the average women is statistically overweight I see some guys saying women aren't worth it and things like this Is It resentment because of doing all this self improvement then after it all you may only be able to attract a women who is average, doesn't go to the gym, eats badly, doesn't take care of herself etc

Nah. I understand. I would do all that if I could get away with it.

Fun_Push7168 · 2024-06-11T01:49:02+00:00

I'm sure that happens in some cases...?

ObadiahTheEmperor · 2024-06-11T10:32:56+00:00

You self improve to attain new heights. To attain excellence. To become a being that would laugh at the current you and that without any malice. Thats true self improvement anyway. I dont see how women play any sort of role here so as to resent them. Its a highly individual process.

STRMfrmXMN · 2024-06-11T16:56:26+00:00

I did start to notice women giving me more time of day when I became more attractive and sociable, but I don't think I resent them for it. I just don't seem to draw that type of resent-able person to me. I'm a golden retriever white dude, so that might be why. Exercising regularly also really drops the blood pressure and keeps you more level-headed, and the being more attractive physically is just a nice added benefit.

It's important to understand that, fundamentally, a lot of the time we're attracted to someone for superficial reasons. It's human. It's a waste of time to try to be frustrated that being attractive is an easy in for a lot of places and occasions. Spend your brainpower on other things. No political, social justice, or societal-swinging movement is going to change that. I do find myself frustrated that a lot of the resent-able women I've met think that they're the hottest shit because they can use men for dinner through dating apps instead of getting groceries that night, but I don't believe that's a huge portion of people out there. Most people try to balance being self-serving with being amicable and moral, and most recognize that behavior to be wrong.

Muscletov · 2024-06-11T07:17:53+00:00

It can. Realizing that you must bust your ass open to achieve something another group (in this case, women or genetically gifted men) has per default definitely breeds resentment.

tendrils87 · 2024-06-11T02:17:04+00:00

Would you want a women to resent men if she put in a bunch of work to get you?

Warm_Gur8832 · 2024-06-11T04:09:51+00:00

I honestly think that it does and more men should dare to question it.

There’s a cult of self improvement gurus that prey on the inner guilt that people have due to decades and even centuries of cultural conditioning which says, essentially, “to not improve is to be lazy”.

And yet, you, the flawed person in need of improvement, is the one deciding the details on what improvement even is?

It doesn’t make any actual sense and, inevitably, when it falls apart because circumstances are simply more beyond human control than we want them to be… it creates a situation where folks feel they need a punching bag to blame.

Don’t improve, is the moral of the story.

You aren’t in control of other people’s choices nor of random shit that just happens. And in any case, we’re all stuck being ourselves anyway.

noafrochamplusamurai · 2024-06-11T02:00:42+00:00

guppyhunter7777 · 2024-06-11T03:52:59+00:00

If you are ding what you do and it makes you happy then your good. If you’re doing what you do not enjoying it, but telling yourself, it’s for someone else, you will not find contentment with it.

obviousredflag · 2024-06-11T04:35:57+00:00

Say you do all these things and much more. But after doing all this your access to quality women in the dating market is still non existent. Say you can only attract average women.

But the access to quality women became existent after improving. When you become above average desirable, above average desirability women are into you.

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-06-11T09:27:22+00:00

Well, does working hard to get wealthy cause people become resentful towards those born rich? Somewhat.

wtknight · 2024-06-11T02:55:23+00:00

I was just happy any women were attracted to me after I improved. I think that it would be pretty bitter and spiteful of me to blame the average women who were now attracted to me for my past lack of success.

Salt_Alternative_86 · 2024-06-11T04:43:04+00:00

Nope. Self improvement doesn't breed resentment. Rather, this and that are separate issues, and while some men hope to improve their odds, it's not the failure of women to grow in equal measure, but rather the consistent quality of antagonist which does so. Historically, great men paired with lesser women have found happiness in their belief that they are loved, while men today know that, greater or lesser, women hold not for them but resentment and scorn, gleeful to call men as useless as bikes to a fish and claiming to be safer with wild beasts like a bear. After over 60 years of this (and worse... far, FAR worse) running full tilt, what man wouldn't learn to resent that which is so resentful? If anything, self improvement is just a last desperate attempt to buy their way out of this shared scorn by dint of their risen quality, rather than the cause of it.

unhingedtherapist254 · 2024-06-11T10:06:02+00:00

For men who have struggled with dating and been told to self improve; Going to the gym, reading books, therapy, improving finances, career, "frame", improving social skills etc.

Women secretly resent all the work they have to do to get paid and would prefer to just have money. Similarly alot of men secretly resent all the work they have to do get into a relationship and would prefer to just have women. And this is why high value men cheat.

And the more difficult it is for people to get something the harder it is for them to give it up, and the easier it is for them to take it when it is offered. And the more they want something the easier it is to rationalize doing whatever it is to get it.

Women how easy is it to spend your own hard-earned money? Wouldn't you prefer to spend someone else's money before you had to spend your own money? Ofcourse you do, and it's perfectly rational to have that preference. But just like women would prefer not to spend their own hard-earned money which they earned if they don't have to, men also would prefer not to forego Women(the access to which they earned) if they don't have to.

Men do more work than women to earn their optionality, so it's hard for men to give that optionality up.For the same reason why it's also easier to take that option when it is offered. Ladies how often have you ever turned free money, assuming it's offered in good faith? Probably never. If someone offered you free money as like a gift, you probably wouldn't say, "oh no thank you, I have enough money." It's very hard to turn down genuine free money and you probably couldn't think of a logical reason to do so anyway.

TRTGymBro1 · 2024-06-11T10:39:27+00:00

If you do any of these things hoping they will impress women, you will always fail at impressing them, because trying to impress others is making their opinion of you more important than your own opinion of you. And I can’t think of anything that’s more diminishing and pathetic than that.

I go to the gym, read, make money, travel, eat the best food, groom and dress to kill because I like treating myself as a KING. Not because it will impress some above average thot. Surprisingly the less I care about impressing women and the more I care about what I want, the more women are impressed with me.

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onlypham · 2024-06-11T03:31:00+00:00

No. Turns out I’m boring and have no interests outside of my own right now.

TallFoundation7635 · 2024-06-11T12:50:11+00:00

If you actually improved yourself including mentally to the utmost of your ability, you would be able to attract above average women. So the question is nonsensical. It is like asking how you can protect yourself if you see a dragon flying towards you.

PassionateCucumber43 · 2024-06-11T13:22:11+00:00

It does appear that there is a consistent trend where self-improvement leads to a lower than expected improvement in dating for men, so seeing this discrepancy could justifiably breed resentment.

Difficult-Ad-2866 · 2024-06-11T16:30:54+00:00

Are you a man or a woman?

It only bothered me when I felt severely undervalued. When I reached a level of personal growth, and I put in effort to show my value as a man, I once got dumped by someone who kinda used me. I was offended, and didn’t know what to make of it. Like, “what did I miss? Why was I so easily disposed of?”

Eventually I did get resentful. I thought “does she you know how much more work I’ve done on myself than her? She has no idea.” I was offended that someone could expect so much, have so little to offer, and give such little effort. But we were both in our 30’s.

8won6 · 2024-06-11T17:50:27+00:00

For some, yes.

Think about the Mike Jones song "Back then they didn't want me, now I'm hot they all on me"...how would you look at somebody that didn't want you when you were "in progress", but once something about your life greatly improved, all of a sudden they want to talk to you?

Exciting-Parfait-776 · 2024-06-11T18:11:40+00:00

No_Matter_8648 · 2024-06-11T18:23:47+00:00

It’s not that complicated. The ppl that sell self improvement to get kitty are huge grifters. They sell programs & other horse shit. This is all BP 101!

Soyjack goes to the gym & does all the “just take a shower bro” & then finds out overcoming women rejection benchmark can’t be don’t so simply or else a lot more guys would be doing it.

Also think about it. If you are not a fat guy you don’t want an obese gf & right now thin women are basically untouchable. They have way too many options & refuse to get off the CC until the wall throws them off..!

FromAuntToNiece · 2024-06-11T11:25:32+00:00

Yes. You can only do so much self-improvement, including socializing. At some point, you just get burned out.

This is even before considering the woman who has not done much self-improvement..

Acrobatic_Computer · 2024-06-11T12:01:33+00:00

I resent the people who told me to "just be myself" when that obviously wasn't working.

I also resent that women get to "just be themselves" and get at least some attention from men with minimal effort. Why should I have to consciously learn how to escalate and manage the early stages of a relationship when they don't have to? Why do I have to sit and politely listen to women bitch, about men failing to / inappropriately taking direct initiative (not like harassment, but more complaining about the quality of things like pickup lines), when those women have hardly ever or never done the same?

TallFoundation7635 · 2024-06-11T13:03:16+00:00

These women that talk about how personality matters remind me of HR managers that talk about how they want employees that "care about the company and are loyal to it" "we pride ourself on our work culture" lol

AdEffective7894s · 2024-06-11T03:22:18+00:00

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger is an ideal.

Frequently that experience traumatised and cripples you.

In my case it has made me an alround worse individual.

I am still in the process of building my artifice, but the insides remain a paradoxial mishmash of concrete foundations and rotten floorboards.

A big part of my journey has been loyalty to self above all else, and just growing past my pain, pretendingit never happened and going into a relationship with idealism and loving like people say you should love seems like a betrayal of the me who kept me alive for the last 10 years.

If I changed I would probably able to live with myself but from where I am standing now, a man who can't be true to himself is worst thing I could be. Not only for myself but for the world

FreitasAlan · 2024-06-11T15:06:18+00:00

I don’t think it’s about resentment. It’s more about it not being worth it. Without self improvement you’re alone. With a lot of self improvement you’re almost always with someone who’s not worth your time. If after self improvement access is non existent then it was self improvement. It was delusion.

Title	Does self improvement cause men to become resentful towards women?
Author	Spiritual_Hamster945
Upvotes	69
Comments	349
Date	June 11, 2024 1:40 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1dd2iqd/does_self_improvement_cause_men_to_become/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-self-improvement-cause-men-to-become.1521197 https://theredarchive.com/post/1521197

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